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Ear to the Ground

Flotilla Fallout Hits Madrid’s Gay Pride Parade

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Posted on Jun 10, 2010
Madrid gay pride
Flickr / álvaro jaramillo

Gay pride revelers rejoice aboard a bus in Madrid at last year’s fest.

Cultural and international politics collided this week after a contingent of Israeli gays from Tel Aviv was pointedly barred from participating in an upcoming gay pride march because their home city’s officials haven’t condemned last month’s flotilla raid near Gaza. A spokesperson for the city of Tel Aviv gives his displeased response after the jump.  —KA

The Guardian:

“After what has happened, and as human rights campaigners, it seemed barbaric to us to have them taking part,” explained Antonio Poveda, of Spain’s Federation of Lesbians, Gays, Transexuals and Bisexuals. “We don’t just defend out own little patch.”

The Tel Aviv group have reacted angrily to the decision, claiming that the Madrid activists were getting their priorities wrong by mixing the nine flotilla deaths with gay pride.

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By abdul kaful, June 13, 2010 at 11:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Me engustaria mucho invitar estos MADRILEÑOS humanistas gays para una GAY PRIDE en LA CIUDAD DE ISTAMBUL DE ONDE VINO LA FLOTILLA, otra en TERAN y EN DAMASCO DE ONE VIENEM LAS ARMAS HUMANITARIAS y POR FINAL EN GAZA (ESTOY SEGURO QUE PARA ESTA HUMANITRIA PRIDE, ISRAEL LES PERMITIRA LA ENTRADA). SEGURAMENTE SERAN MY HUMANITARIAMENTE MUERTOS, SIN NINGUNA DISCRIMINACION. HIPOCRITAS!

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By Tobysgirl, June 11, 2010 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

rico, suave: “Muslim countries kill or jail gays by the hundreds and not a word from gay rights activists.”

What world do you live in? I constantly hear gay rights activists protesting the persecution of gays and lesbians in any country that does so. You need to read gay publications and listen to gay radio programs to hear this; they don’t cover it in Time. Duh.

karimguy83, you are absolutely right. One does not offer sanctuary to people based on the behavior of a state, one offers sanctuary to anyone suffering oppression. I prefer to try to remember that people are individuals. I’m an American and I have never supported the policies of my government when it comes to exploiting, murdering, and oppressing people. I do not want to be lumped in with GWB or the teabagger down the road, and certainly not any administrations in my lifetime.

That said, my limited experience with Israelis was weird. I met one in a park stateside and we corresponded for a while. I asked her what Israelis thought of the Christian right in this country, which sends a lot of money to promote settlements, and I never heard from her again. The other was a writer, a very talented man, who sent me a newspaper clipping in which his wife excoriated Israeli judges for being bleeding hearts. I stopped writing to him—what can you say to that kind of garbage—and he asked why. I told him I figured Israeli jails were packed like ours are, as would be typical of militarized, violent nations. In which cases judges have to be practical. I never heard from him again. I often think how hard it must be to be a thinking, compassionate peace activist in Israel, probably even harder than it is in the U.S.

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By rico, suave, June 11, 2010 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

Sinbad:
“It’s true that Islam has severe penal laws for certain public sexual offenses, like adultery, fornification (sic), and homosexuality.” How stupid and bigoted of you to lump all Islam into a statement like that!

“The fact that these laws might not correspond one-on-one to the laws of your so-called civilized society or country, does not make your laws more superior or more morally valid.” Of course it does! Do you really want to compare the rights of gays in the US to those of gays in any “majority Muslim country”? I can say without qualification that the US system is FAR superior.

“...like every other disease they have the potential of being contagious!” Exactly what century are you living in???

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By karimguy83, June 11, 2010 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad,
i will send a check of a 1000 dollar if you can show me
where the Koran prescribes a severe penalty for homosexuality.Second, i dont understand people like you.You call homosexuality a disease,yet the real diseases in our socities are torture,corruption,lack of freedom and yes sexual repression.I just want everybody to know,Sinbad doesnt speak in the name of all Muslims and Arabs.
Karim

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By Arabian Sinbad, June 11, 2010 at 9:34 am Link to this comment

By rico, suave, June 11 at 10:44 am #

“Muslim countries kill or jail gays by the hundreds and not a word from gay rights activists.”
============================================
How stupid and bigoted of you to lump up all Muslim countries in unqualified statement like this!!!

Wherever Islam is truly practiced in a majority Muslim country, there are certain moral, legal and penal laws that apply, as in every other civilized society. The fact that these laws might not correspond one-on-one to the laws of your so-called civilized society or country, does not make your laws more superior or more morally valid.

It’s true that Islam has severe penal laws for certain public sexual offenses, like adultery, fornification, and homosexuality, but in proportion to the severity of the punishment, there is great room for leniency in proving the violation, since these offenses require four dignified witnesses to prove that they have become a public offense against the laws.

If adulterers, fornicators or homosexuals, as an odd minority, want to openly practice their deviations publicly, demanding that the moral laws of most civilized societies be twisted to favor them, then they are asking for an impossibility.

I personally don’t care if you belong to one of these groups as long as you don’t come in close contact with members of my family, because, like every other disease they have the potential of being contagious!

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By rico, suave, June 11, 2010 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

dihey:
“A few years ago Russian gays wanted to hold a gay parade in Moscow.”

Imagine substituting “Iranian” for Russian, and “Tehran” for Moscow?

Now imagine substituting “Israeli” for Russian, and “Tel Aviv” for Moscow?

Which of the above substitutions would create a yawn and which would create a bloodbath?

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By rico, suave, June 11, 2010 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

dihey:
“It can be dangerous to be a gay person in the Jewish world.”

Because one Russian rabbi urged “the mob” (what mob?) to kill some gays…?

How do you explain the existence of the Jewish Israeli gay contingent at the parade in Spain?

If you were gay, where would you rather live, in Tel Aviv or in Tehran, in Moscow or in Islamabad, in Selma, Alabama or Kandahar?

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By rico, suave, June 11, 2010 at 6:44 am Link to this comment

I wonder if there was an Iranian gay pride contingent at the parade. A Saudi one. A Pakistani one.

I am completely baffled by the spectacle of a spokesperson for gay rights condemning Israel for its human rights record and not a word about the Muslim attitude about gays.

Muslim countries kill or jail gays by the hundreds and not a word from gay rights activists.

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By rico, suave, June 11, 2010 at 6:38 am Link to this comment

average Joe:
“Now Come on, I am not anti-Semitic.”

Can you give me your definition of an anti-Semite?

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By dihey, June 11, 2010 at 6:14 am Link to this comment

A few years ago Russian gays wanted to hold a gay parade in Moscow. One of the persons who urged the mob to kill the gays if they dared to march was the Chief Rabbi of Russia. It can be dangerous to be a gay person in the Jewish world.

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By dihey, June 11, 2010 at 6:13 am Link to this comment

A few years ago Russian gays wanted to hold a gay parade in Moscow. One of the persons who urged the mob to kill the gays if they dared to march was the Chief Rabbi of Russia. It can be dangerous to be a gay person in the Jewish world.
Where were the protests of the Spanish gays when this happened? Nowhere. They are a bunch of whining hypocrites.

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By karimguy83, June 11, 2010 at 6:08 am Link to this comment

``its hard to be a Jew anywhere in the world anytime in
history.``

Bullshit.

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By Peter Knopfler, June 11, 2010 at 6:02 am Link to this comment

Its hard to be gay in Islamic-Muslim countries, But its
hard to be a Jew anywhere in the world anytime in
history.

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By karimguy83, June 11, 2010 at 4:11 am Link to this comment

To average Joe,
my father is Palestinian and from Gaza.

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By karimguy83, June 11, 2010 at 4:00 am Link to this comment

What if Norman Finkelstein,Heydi Epstein,Noam Chomsky or Emily Henochowicz, who lost an eye protesting injustice,knocked on your door? By what judgement would you leave them to their fate? A misguided personal construct of what a Jew behaves like?Well in these cases,and many many others, you would definitely be wrong.Prejiduce is a terrible navigation sytem.

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By karimguy83, June 11, 2010 at 3:52 am Link to this comment

To average joe,
if you consider that the most violent,the most racist and the most savage were for a long time eouropean whites, whose countries are now among the most tolerant,the most liberal and humane(no,not including the United States). Nomatter how horrific it is what the Israelis do, it is still peanuts compared to decades of crimes by the United States.Is there a general feeling of guilt about your horrific past and crimes against the Philipinos,the Japanese or about the genocide in Vietnam?Or the fact that a few days ago Physicians for Human Rights released a report, showing that American medical personel experimented on fellow human beings? Now,considering the widespread support of torture and the general lack of remorse in the United States, if a white Anglo Saxon knocked on my door and needed help, should i then not respond?
There is no excuse for inhumanity, other then the fact that is satisfies our own bigotry. The Jew in Nazi Germany, knocking on our door, wouldnt know much about Zionism.Many black people in the United States are cruel to each other; would you therefore turn away from injustice committed against them?
If that is your choice and considering human nature,you will end up pretty lonely.Think about it.

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By Jacob, June 11, 2010 at 12:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I do not blame the people of Madrid for choosing to not welcome people from Israel to their country, even if it is for a gay pride festival.  After all, it is THEIR religion, together with its spin-offs, that is used for persecution of gay people; although I do acknowledge that Tel Aviv is the most gay-friendly city in southwest Asia.

Watch all the negative comments that will be made for what average USA Joe wrote, even though he is right and has made some good points.  I believe that Israel had 62 years to demonstrate some semblance of civility and justice for its citizens and its neighbors and have failed to do so thus far.  The truth of the matter is, a government is responsible for ALL of its citizens’ welfare and are supposed to treat it citizens with some degree of equality under the law.  Israel falls way short on both.  If a Palestinian commits murder or assault, you arrest him.  You do not kill him or bring in your military to destroy the town and kill the citizens of where the perpetrator is from.  You do not do that, government of Israel.  You just…don’t as this behavior from a government is uncivilized.

Which brings me to the government of Israel itself.  I truly believe that their politicians are downright evil.  Evil.  Yet, Israel has elections and its citizens vote for people who show zero compassion.  Unholy people running the holy land.  That’s sad.

I do think that Israel should be forfeited back to the Palestinians.  I have said before on previous posts that it seems Jewish people in general, both inside and outside Israel, seem to not be greatful or appreciative for inheriting Palestine after WW2.  After 62 years of Israel’s existence, I am extremely disappointed that its government is unwilling to see things from the perspective of those who live in Gaza and West Bank.

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By average USA Joe, June 10, 2010 at 11:51 pm Link to this comment

<b>

OK, This is an open letter to all jews:

I’ve been reading a lot of things here and there and have finally decided to contribute my two cents’ worth.

Not so long ago I had a lot of sympathy for jewish people.  And with all the holocaust movies and what not, I even though that, if I ever were in a situation like WWII where I could help or hide some jews to protect them, kind of like in a movie, even at considerable risk to myself…  I thought to myself then that I would do it, it’s the right thing to do.

Today I am not so sure.  Now Come on, I am not anti-Semitic.  I am NOT suggesting that we exterminate or even hurt the jews.  It’s just that after everything israel has done, I feel that it has lost not only credibility but also legitimacy.  I mean, if this is the way you treat people whose land you did steal (I am sorry, that is indisputable: many of them do have deeds of trust, not vague biblical claims), ethnically cleansing them and starving them in Gaza and elsewhere, how can you expect me to come to any other conclusion?  How could you of all people recreate a ghetto and inflict upon others the horrors that were inflicted onto you?  I just can’t understand that.  I know, you’re gonna throw the terrorism bogeyman card but this terrorism bit is wearing thin.  I did look it up: for example, there was a cease fire with Gaza, israel broke it and provoked Hamas.  And in any case, white phosphorous and civilians in hospital and UN compounds for a couple of firecrackers?  You have lost any and all legitimacy.  Actually, I would be hard pressed to even argue that by your barbarity and crimes against humanity, you have not forfeited your right to exist.  It’s not the way I feel but, intellectually, and if I am honest, how could I argue that?  I can’t.

So yes I am utterly disgusted with israel and jews in general, and please, don’t bug me with the jewish and zionist differentiation.  I know there are good jewish people, I know some of them.  But jews, even if they are not israelis, have a special responsibility…  No duty…  to speak and act against the racist monster israel has become.  Jew, zionist, yeah, I know, I should see the difference, but I don’t… let God sort them out.

And you see what is really sad is the following: How I would have protected you even putting my family at risk in the past…  All that goodwill.  Today I won’t lift a finger for you.  Don’t ever come knocking on my door, whether zionist or just plain jewish, it will remain shut.

So no, I will not advocate for, nor condone, nor partake in the coming pogroms against jews, but I won’t do a thing to help them either.

Coming pogroms against jews? For every action, there is a reaction.  You’ve gone too far. It’s inevitable, it is the way of history, the pendulum swings.  And it seems to be the jews’ destiny throughout history, always getting too cocky and pushing the envelope too far and then getting major blow back.

I wish it were different, but it’s really your own doing, and I got my own country and my own family to take care of.  So please, change NOW or get the hell out of other people’s country.  Palestine, but also out of America.  Get a hold of your aipac and all these j street pressures.  I want my country back.  Palestinians do too.

Otherwise don’t complain when blowback hits and, when it does, don’t expect me to give any assistance whatsoever.  You brought it upon yourselves.

<b>

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By samosamo, June 10, 2010 at 7:40 pm Link to this comment

****************

 

I think this appropriate in all ways, not because it was a gay
parade but as good as way to boycott izrael any time and
anywhere izrael wants to muscle in on something as a right they
think they have when ever they care to do it. And the izraeli
official’s asinine response which I tell him/her to, ‘go tell it to
the families of the dead killed by izraeli terrorists’. Small
comfort for change but hell if the izraelis don’t fix izrael, then
who will?

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By Ed Harges, June 10, 2010 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

I can see that in some ways this may have been a hard decision, but I think it was
the right decision.

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By karimguy83, June 10, 2010 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

Exactly right.Just look at this assholes reponse.

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