By Maani, March 31 at 4:09 pm #
““Samo/Artboyz:
The ownership of MSM has nothing whatsoever to do with the
free speech of an individual - no matter how heinous his/her
crimes.  And yes, a pedophile would have just as much a right to
speak as anyone else.”“
*****************************
I will argue the mainstream media part and will say that an
ownership of ultra conservatives, and that doesn’t point a finger
at republicans(after all who deregulated the FCC regulations in
1996?) but to that one party system of the republocrats, and to
find an opposing view on tv, one would most likely go to pbs
and lehrer news or moyers or web sites but that really isn’t the
point because people turn on a tv to mostly anything but
differing viewpoints on the news.

But you seem think the MSM has absolutely NOTHING to do with
directing ideology, but it does and to have others, mind you I
say others, to cast socialism, public assistance or anything that
seems as if the taxpayers money is going to help people instead
of the corporate welfare which is more important by the msm
standards, I ask you how often do you see a push or see
congress or the president pushing for something that doesn’t
include a healthy dose of corporate welfare except on web sites?

You won’t, lobbying takes care of that because the msm is the
largest or next to the largest lobbying sector in washington and
if you agree that congress is really one big broken part of the
machine then you will at least kind of grasp why money lends a
hand.

Exactly why when we vote someone into congress they
immediately shut the door on those who voted them in and open
the door to the lobbyists, who by the way are criminals because
they give money to elected officials to pass legislation which is
criminal bribery and those elected officials become criminals for
taking that bribe, influence peddling, couple hundred years or
less ago that would get both parties sent to hard time, but not
now because ‘it is the way of doing business’.

To me, the one big gaff you commit is leaving out the absolute fact that the whole of the mainstream media is owned and controlled by the 4 or 5 or 6 unltra conservative right wingers that approve what those who are addicted to their dribble should see and hear, so nothing but the conservative view is
available.

So all news networks, including PBS, CNN and MSNBC, are the same as Fox? Silly.

Its obviously wrong, even a liberal can tell there is a difference, and you half admitted it in your post.

The Fairness Doctrine is the government deciding who gets to speak. Do you really think the Fairness Doctrine wont be abused by both Left and Right? Can you imagine what some people would do with the Fairness doctrine if they gain power? You can Imagine Sarah Palin. Does that really seem like a good idea?  I will imagine Chris hedges or Barack Obama and shudder..  The fairness Doctrine limits speech, and gives the state power to choose who speaks. 

I wonder… would you like to shut down Fox News, comrade?

The network with the most balanced audience of democrats, republicans, and independents is Fox News, it has a rather broad base of support, so i dont think you would be successful even if you tried.

Obama sure wasnt.

Ah, just when I painted with a broad brush, Neoconscience came along and proved me wrong. I tip my hat to you, wherever you are.

Samo/Artboyz:

The ownership of MSM has nothing whatsoever to do with the free speech of an individual - no matter how heinous his/her crimes.  And yes, a pedophile would have just as much a right to speak as anyone else.  The judging of guilt or innocence for a crime is the purview of the law enforcement and criminal justice communities, not the public.

People have every right to protest, and I support that right 101%.  I would have been right there protesting Rove’s appearance at the venue. But “shutting down” someone so that their right to free speech is curtailed - no matter who that person is - is wrong.

Period.

This is a hard call. I have to admit that whenever any neo-con leader is publically humiliated I feel a warm fuzzy glow inside. Part of the problem is that these people—whom many in the nation and world view as war criminals—appear to enjoy unlimited impunity. This impunity for the elitist class—whether real or perceived—is a major factor in the public’s low level of confidence in government. His physical unattractiveness also makes Karl an easy target. Most human beings possessed of such physical and social ugliness have the good sense to keep clear of the spotlight.

I’m neither a psychologist nor a psychiatrist but I do believe that Karl’s problems are due, at least in part, to unrequited love. I doubt that Karl is the first—nor will he be the last—man(?) to fall for a cheerleader. Can we even begin to imagine the degree of love one possesses to allow the love of his life, a cheerleader no less, to nickname him “turd blossom”; and not only accept it but cherish that act and name as a badge of honor and endearment? I can’t, and I doubt that any of you can either. I could be wrong, perhaps it isn’t unrequited love but rather a pining away for the succulent fruit of love once relished and now lost. 

If I knew Karl I’d remind him of a oft cited verse from Tennyson’s poem In Memoriam

I hold it true, whate’er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
‘Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

Karl, on the odd chance that you might be reading this comment, I encourage you to rid yourself of the terrible burden of self-hatred. Come clean! Admit your man crush and man love for Dubya then you too—like Ricky Martin—can live free, accepting yourself for what you are and not what your twisted and perverse neo-conservative ideology dictates you should be.

If you truly want to live free of all that self-loathing; I would also suggest that once you’ve come out of the closet that you confess all of your crimes publicly. Providence usually has strange twists to it Karl and I don’t doubt that should you confess all you might find yourself enjoying (once again?) the succulent fruits of love with Dubya as the two of you share a cell in Belgium awaiting your trials. Think about it Karl; you and Dubya, alone in a cell, without any interruptions from the Dick —Cheney or any other Dick for that matter.

By OzarkMichael, March 31 at 2:31 pm
““samosamo says:Obviously, there are people around that don’t
want someone as kkkarl to continuing talking about what their
ideology is as compared to other’s ideologies.

thats another vote for force instead of reason”“

““This conservative does not think so. But understand that we
will all be playing by the same rules in the end, and you have
declared your preference for what sort of rules we will play by:”“

““By the way, you should hope and pray that conservatives by the
many many millions continue to play by better rules than you
do.”“
******************************************

To me, the one big gaff you commit is leaving out the absolute
fact that the whole of the mainstream media is owned and
controlled by the 4 or 5 or 6 unltra conservative right wingers
that approve what those who are addicted to their dribble
should see and hear, so nothing but the conservative view is
available.

IF ANY VIEW, is allowed on the air waves and case in point, well
fux news is fux news, but just go to msnbc or cnn or cbs or abc
web sites and see what is ‘doled’ out on the public, opps, sorry,
the private air waves for the people to be informed with
conservative view points, after all the supposed ultimate ‘leader’
of this country, mash brain reagan was all too eagar to shut
down opposing and contrary views by killing the fairness
doctrine which really takes a lot of options away from being able
to civilly object to a one sided ideology.

So what do you have, people interjecting their views and
opinions in whatever ways they can. And kkkarl is definitely
someone who does not need to be heard by little children, much
less media doped adults.

And speaking of force, let us go ask amy goodman of
democracy now! how fair and open minded the security was at
the rnc convention in 2008. So don’t lecture me on ‘another vote
for force instead of reason’.

samosamo says:Obviously, there are people around that don’t want someone as kkkarl to continuing talking about what their ideology is as compared to other’s ideologies.

thats another vote for force instead of reason

artboyz asks: Why do conservatives think that liberals should play by different rules.

This conservative does not think so. But understand that we will all be playing by the same rules in the end, and you have declared your preference for what sort of rules we will play by:

But liberals have every right to engage in the kind of debate that gets results. If that means engaging in intimidation, civil disobedience and decisive action, then we will, no matter how much conservatives accuse of being unliberal-like.

I wont accuse you of anything. I dont have to. You just accused yourself. You will probably be applauded instead of condemned by your fellow ‘liberals’, who long ago ceased to deserve that appellation. Perhaps you are more accurately named as “Revolutionary Leftists”.

But i feel things are slipping on all sides and it makes me sad. Once it degenerates into force, the conservatives have already lost the principles they were supposed to be defending, even if they seem to win the battle.

I dont know if you understand what i am saying or not.

By the way, you should hope and pray that conservatives by the many many millions continue to play by better rules than you do. i am pretty sure we outnumber you guys in every measure. I am pretty sure that the Right will out perform the Left in “intimidation, civil disobedience and decisive action”. Not that I would take any solace in the thought.

No, I do not take solace from it. “Conservatism” via force is really only fascism, and in my opinion that is a disaster of the same magnitude as communism. So everybody loses.

Congrats to you both on your small but solid contributions to the destruction of our current polity.

The tactic of shouting down a speaker is, and has been counter productive, to the progressive movement.

Mr. Rove and other members of the conservetive media, will only use this as publicity to raise funds for the movement progressives are working hard to defeat.

ardee - from the post, “...to the direction and persecution of the Iraq War in Beverly Hills…” prompted my wonder.

OzarkMichael is playing the false equivalency games. If a pedophile priest was
conducting a promotional tour defending his crimes wouldn’t it a reasonable
public reaction to protest and attempt to shut down such a shameless attempt to
whitewash his criminal behavior.

Why do conservatives think that liberals should play by different rules.
Republicans created the poisonous atmosphere in Washington while Democrats,
true to there spineless instincts, acquiesced. But liberals have every right to
engage in the kind of debate that gets results. If that means engaging in
intimidation, civil disobedience and decisive action, then we will, no matter how
much conservatives accuse of being unliberal-like.

By OzarkMichael, March 30 at 9:18 pm
“”....citizen’s arrest” for perceived crimes relating to the
direction and persecution of the Iraq War in Beverly Hills and
Rove eventually left the Saban Theatre stage where about 100
supporters had gathered to hear him speak Monday.”“

““I figured you all would be against protestors interrupting and
shutting down a discussion. It is really a type of force being
used. It certainly isnt reason.”“
*********************************

I certainly agree with you about distruptively shutting down a
discussion or a communication but as far as the whole msm
information system goes, who is shutting down who? I would
also question just what kkkarl would have to say as I am pretty
sure it would be no different than his regular, if not neocon
dribble, at least a neoconistic dribble that has any and
everything with how this country has got the way it is and under
the control of those NOT wanting open and serious discussions
and don’t not allow open and serious discussions.

Obviously, there are people around that don’t want someone as
kkkarl to continuing talking about what their ideology is as
compared to other’s ideologies.

I figured you all would be against protestors interrupting and shutting down a discussion. It is really a type of force being used. It certainly isnt reason.

But I was wrong. Seems like you are ok with shutting down communication and discussion.

Which in my opinion is very short sighted of you.

You are saying that people with rightious indignation are doing a good thing when they break up public meetings and shout down public discussion.

Is that wise? You will have no leg to stand on when one your own gets interrupted, heckled and driven out of town. You cannot complain about your opponents lack of civility or having your own speech suppressed by an indignant mob if you approve of what happened.

Think about it and get back to me.

Meanwhile, here is a video made by Code Pink. Notice how the person at the microphone handled it. As i watched I find myself missing him a little, because he actually dignified the protestor and our free speech at the same time. Maybe he had a good heart after all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jRj-pWbWJo

I hope turdblossum is heckled everywhere he goes for the rest of his life.

I have a few choice words if I run into him.

I got it: sara for president, and Karl for v.p! what a perfect pair (from hell).

It will be a blessed day when rove’s sins find him out and it is
encouraging to see this twat not being as ‘lavished’ with love
and affection as he would want to be.

I also still hope for the day to see not just kkkarl’s son picking
tomatoes but kkkarl himself picking them.

But, it still remains and adultration to know this awful person
sill speaks to the public thus by further indoctrinating and
infecting those hapless souls who would believe anything he
said.

Which begs for me the question: How can the current subverted
msm be circumvented to being able to present a broader view of
the reality of information to this country that is so disgustingly
tangled into a disney land of irrelevant disinformation?

felicity, March 30 at 5:04 pm

I am uncertain as to your meaning regarding the Hillside of Crosses, so I will assume that you understand the attempt to bring home the facts about so many dead to a public shielded from such information.

That said, I agree with your assessment of Mr. Rove. He belongs in a federal prison , perhaps with his buddy Dick Cheney as cellmate.

I had no idea that the Iraq war occurred in Beverly Hills?  That said, it’s becoming downright nauseating to have criminals paraded as celebrities on almost a daily basis across my television screen.