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Ear to the Ground

Bush Shoots Down Troop Pullout Bill

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Posted on May 1, 2007

Making good on his threat, President Bush vetoed the bill Tuesday that would have started U.S. troop withdrawal on Oct. 1 and stipulated that an additional $124 billion would be dedicated to the war effort.  Now it’s up to Congress to challenge his veto or come up with another plan instead.


AP via Breitbart.com:

“This is a prescription for chaos and confusion and we must not impose it on our troops,” Bush said in a nationally broadcast statement from the White House. He said the bill would “mandate a rigid and artificial deadline” for troop pullouts, and “it makes no sense to tell the enemy when you plan to start withdrawing.”

Democrats accused Bush of ignoring American’s desire to stop the war, which has claimed the lives of more than 3,350 members of the military.

“The president wants a blank check,” said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., moments after Bush’s appearance. “The Congress is not going to give it to him.” She said Congress would work with him to find common ground but added that there was “great distance” between them on Iraq.

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By Nitro, May 9, 2007 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

Well TAO #68787, from one old heathen to another, I’m glad you declined the sock-puppet position. I’d really hate to see anyone right now enter that cess pool. I, as well as you, am glad we have a strong immune system for the chickenshititis epidemic there east of the Deleware.
I saw King George II shaking hands with the Queen. I said, “better watch what’s in his hand…” Then I thought, her right hand, his left, what’s the difference? I noticed that formidable “kiss your treasures & coin” good bye handshake take place, & shivered in sight of the next valley, as well.
But, at the current rate, maybe our current incumbent will be able to plead, “by means of insanity,” before long. Hopefully the next week or two.
Don’t know if you noticed or not, since I know not where Turtle Hill is for sure, nor your current gas price, but has anyone else noticed that since Congress’ & theamericanpeople have said “NO” to any more funding or time for the war, that almost the next day, gas shot up 29 cents ? Then when Congress through another fit, along with theamericanpeople, it went up another 10 cents ? Just wondered. Thought I might have missed something there…
Went in search of a “blog recommendation.” Don’t know if I found the right place in time or not. Kind of “Futuristic” & wasn’t sure if I went left when I should have went right or not. Hopefully I didn’t get caught in a cosmic planetary un-alignment or something.

To a better day…

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By TAO Walker, May 8, 2007 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

This old Heathen Savage has to say “thanks but no thanks” to Nitro’s “....run for president,” suggestion (#68509).  As native Turtle Islanders, we enjoy a kind of natural immunity (to the allamerican political “bug”) which is always compomised by messing-around in that septic “system.”

And anyhow, the prospect of being sock-puppet-in-chief has no appeal here in Indian Country.  Neither does occupying those regions of maximum delusion known as “the corridors of power,” in the allamericandreamland of make-believe.

Meantime, the current incumbent continues to suffer the most grandiose delusion of all, as the american Tory party struts its loyalist stuff before Her British Majesty….while yet another army general warns theamericanpeople to expect even more of their children and treasure will soon be going-to-waste in The-Cradle-of-Civilization.  Well, one of that officer’s more famous predecessors wasn’t just whistlin’ “Dixie” when he said, “War is hell!”  Nor was that Marine Corps general who revealed it’s also “....a racket.”

HokaHey!

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By Nitro, May 6, 2007 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

TAO Walker (#68215) Good Deal. Maybe we are finally in the same book, same page now. And thank you for the consideration to my gifted insight. And I welcome the quest of right here and now and the hope of a good path, on the walk of life we are on. And I as well look to the far horizon for the same relief…
And forgive me for trying to remember something good from the past history of ALL our Grand Fathers, instead of just the burning & skinning, but what an honor it would have been to meet with such a worthy human being, Tatanka Yotanka, to try and put your heads together to work out a future for your children & grand children. Funny thing…
Maybe you can help. Maybe once again, 2 human beings of different cultures are once again faced with the decision, we can put our heads together and see what kind of a future we can give our children & grand children. It seems once again, we can either LEARN to live with one another in peace, or we can LEARN to kill each other.
Since this old Savage, Falling Star, has learned from so much wondering what they were so afraid of… I can’t remember my old friends ways, the Navajo & the Ancient One’s, but, if you went & raped & pillaged the earth of it’s resources, both natural & human, wouldn’t you have something to fear? No wonder, they’re so afraid. I didn’t have to wake up this morning wondering who I had to be afraid of for raping & pillaging them, did you?
So I choose the first, to learn to live in peace. But like you said, it’s up to theamericanpeople. It’s up to us all to learn to live together in peace, I choose to learn from the past, not dwell on it, but to learn of a better way for all to live together. Besides, it makes this old white man w/ a red mans spirit look like I’ve learned something, instead of going out here & leaning up against a fence post hoping & praying that the next valley we might walk through on our walk of life, is covered in flowers and singing grass & not covered in blood & death.
And evidently back to this article, evidently the whole country is fed up with Bushit, & want him out. Impeach him & his staff, lynch them burn them, tar & feather them? Sounds like this country has a BIG problem and we ALL could use some help. So if you can…
I know this will piss off JNagarya, but from what I gathered so far, why don’t you run for president TAO? I’ll vote for you.

To a better day

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By JNagarya, May 5, 2007 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

#68215 by TAO Walker on 5/04 at 8:10 pm
(46 comments total)

“And Nitro is absolutely right when he observes that it’s gotta happen right here where we live.  And that it’s only all together that we can find our Way back into our natural condition….as human beings, wingeds, four-leggeds, swimmers, crawlers, standing-up green people, and all our relations.”

The “good old days” fantasy “natural way” to which you retrogress included the skinning of humans, then burning them alive, by Indians.

And that concrete reality—atrocity—issued forth from the mix of superstititon, unevidenced speculation, and pseudo-philosophy you spew as that being “superior” to all the equivalent alternatives thereto.

Remainder of your undifferentiated mish-mash of afactual and self-serving “history” and judgmental moralism deleted to save bandwidth from yet another exhibition of self-satisfied inflated-ego “guilt-free” blowing of hot air.

Maybe we can help.

By teaching “us” how to skin humans, and burn them alive?

The “golden age”—fantasy—you so love to remember and spew never existed.  There were hostile and bigoted “relations”—and wars—among and between the various Indian tribes on this continent before any European—Hispanic, French, English, or otherwise—set foot on it.  Those being the facts, the self-serving supermacist’s view that all the Indians did was sit around peacefully and philosophize “wisdom,” between being innocents who were “picked on” by the “white devil,” is poppycock.

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By TAO Walker, May 4, 2007 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

Nitro (#‘s 68146 & 68152) shows an abundance of both native wisdom and natural good sense here.  This Indian has said several times, here and there around this site, that all of us Two-leggeds are, in our essential humanity, free and wild, and that “race” has nothing to do with any of it….being anyway a made-up notion intended to facilitate the subjugation and exploitation of all the Earth’s peoples (human and otherwise) by means of the process of “civilization.”

Those humans who’ve been “processed” stand, however, in relation to the Living Arrangement here, on a very different footing than the (relatively) few among us who have not.  This is not in any way a “moral” distinction.  It is rather the same as any civilized individual might commonly make between wild and “farmed” Salmon, for just one example out of probably hundreds, even thousands, susceptible to the same comparative observation.

This old Savage lives among free wild natural human beings who exhibit every shade and hue of skin, hair, and eye color, every somatype, every personified variation on the “theme” of humankind there is.  And when venturing into the “hot-house” of the civilized virtual world, it is the free wild essence of all its inmates, and the awful stresses captivity imposes on them in there, that this Indian can’t help but be most aware-of, knowing the Tiyoshpaye Way, in the Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself, is where our civilized sisters and brothers will find relief, finally, from the lethal and degrading effects of their present condition.

And Nitro is absolutely right when he observes that it’s gotta happen right here where we live.  And that it’s only all together that we can find our Way back into our natural condition….as human beings, wingeds, four-leggeds, swimmers, crawlers, standing-up green people, and all our relations.

Tatanka Yotanka, “Sitting Bull,” once invited some of the same americanpeople who were crowding into that Lakota country to “....put our heads together, and see what kind of world we can make for our children and grandchildren.”  It isn’t too late to do that, maybe, but so far it’s been theamericanpeople who refuse to do it.  We used to wonder what they are so afraid of, as numerous and well-armed as they are.  We don’t wonder anymore, but it looks like they themselves still don’t know, and these days they seem more afraid than ever. 

Maybe we can help.

HokaHey!

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By Nitro, May 4, 2007 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

To JNagarya (#68059) I guess I am the one that mis-understood the feelings & sentiment of your opinion and words when this discussion began. I offer you an open apology if I have offended you in any way.
I respect your knowledge of the past and it’s history you evidently have, and that I lack accordingly of. As I spoke to TAO my condolences of my lack of intelligence and knowledge of the facts of you both, and I would let the truth and facts be spoken by those who knew them.
My original feelings were that I stood with those who are fed up with the “left hand-right hand” shuffle that Bushit and his thugs keep giving the American People. My feelings are how dare they go against the major concensus of the people they serve. And that means all the different colors and races that vote, pay taxes, and live and die for this country we call our own.
It simply seems to me, that just as back in the 1600’s as well as today, we (meaning everyone at the hands of the Crusaders, whomever they are) are sooner or latter left with no other choice but to get mean maybe we’ll call it. Because once the “Crusaders” set out on their mission to take what ever they want, they are never preferencial as to whom they kill and mame to get what they want. Whether it’s your land or oil, it makes no difference to them. Isn’t that what all “Good Human Beings” have fought since the beginning?
Maybe you and I both had a cyber-space break down. It seems so many are not far from that more and more each day, in what I’d like to hope is their endeavor to pursue happiness and the right to live in peace in a safe environment that The Great Spirit entrusted us to take care of and enjoy. Yet it seems each day we encounter another dilema with the Crusaders to accomplish that.
And maybe we’re all a little guilty of wearing our feelings on our shoulders a little to raw and close to reach, but like me, when you’re done so wrong, where you supposed to carry them? How is one to not speak out against the attrocities and crimes?
I only hope within, that someday before we meet on the other side, we can have this dream come true of truly living in peace. They say, “only in a perfect world?” I say the “tiyoshpaye way,” and the Song"n"Dance of life can be achieved here and now in the perfect world we already have.
With all due Respect,
Nitro

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By Nitro, May 4, 2007 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

TAO Walker (#67997) My friend, I in no way want Josephs legal beagle jumping all over my case or anyone’s case. I guess I mis-understood the comments from the word go. I thought we were united in wanting the removal of Bushit & all his conspirators from office.
I kept hearing so many say more or less the same thing, Impeachment… yet those in Bushit’s hand thumb their nose at the American People, whom I consider you & JNagarya to be as well as the rest of us on the poor end of the stick, & what I’ve seen on the media reports both mainstream & independent, although somewhat contradict themselves, is the same thing… The American People are fed up. And color or race seems to not have a preference in their rage.
I must admit, my intelictual level falls way short of you gentlemen, so I’ll just sit my old heathen britches back and let those who know the facts of what they speak, be spoken. I was merely agreeing with what I thought you both were speaking of in the beginning, and to let you know I stood with you. And maybe, had found 2 more human beings that know of how people can live together if they want. Guess my choice of words were wrong. So a wise word taken my friend…
I’m just belly full tired of our public servants taking advantage of the American People,All American people, in too many ways to count, and tired of those that work for us telling us what we’re going to do or not do. I think we’ve taken about all the civilized approaches to removing them and their entire kind and nothing seems to work. So I’m more than open to suggestions. 
I guess I’m best at standing by the post… You know what they call someone who spends 12 hours a day trying to outsmart a cow don’t you ?
Respectfully your’s,
Nitro

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By JNagarya, May 3, 2007 at 10:45 pm Link to this comment

#67975 by Nitro on 5/03 at 6:12 pm
(6 comments total)

“To JNagarya #67879 & TAO Walker #67824,
I feel a big misunderstanding is underway. I’m meant no offense or defense, or what ever that fense is. I was not calling anyone in particular a savage, lest that is what you know the “nowaday Puritans” would call those who would take a stand and remove those responsible for their actions we are commenting on, I thought.”

“Savagery” is objectively identifiable; it is not the exclusive province of this or that people.  I condemn it without regard for which people, ethnicity, or race, is the perpetrator of the savagery.  That condemnation applies equally to all who engage in savagery.  And I’ll not lie about or defend any savagery, whether committed by “my” people or by someone else’s.

Nor is injustice the exclusive province of this or that people, ethnicity, or race.  Did the Indians who skinned humans, then burned them alive, first give them a fair trial?  Doubtful.  Did the English colonists give legislate concerning, and give fair trials to, Indians?  Doubtful.

But the savagery of the one does not excuse or vindicate the savagery of the other.  “TAO Walker”‘s racist swill notwithstanding, his underlying argument that two wrongs make a right—or that the various savagries are acceptable except when those committing such aren’t Indians—is false. 

“TAO Walker” and I differ on a fundamental point: I’ll not defend the wrongs committed by the colonists against the Indians.  But I also won’t defend the wrongs of the Indians against the colonists.  “Tao Walker”—consistently contrary to his own “handle”—endeavors to avoid and whitewash the fact that there were wrongs committed on both sides; he wants to present—unmolested—the hogwash myth that the Indians were only victims, never perpetrators of evils at least equivalent to those committed by the colonists.

Being a racist, and being unavoidably divisive, “TAO Walker” wants us all to pretend with him that the the Indians could do no wrong.  He wants us to pretned with us that there were perfectly peaceful relations between and among the various Indian tribes—until the “white devil” arrived.  “King Philip’s War,” by contrast with that racist hogwash, was rooted in conflicts between Indian tribes which had existed from long before the colonists arrived on this continent.

“. . . .  If the lynching, tarring & feathering, running them out of town is considered “savage”, then let me be the first savage in this process, because all other “civilized” attempts at removing, one way or another,those responsible for all atrocities spoken of, seemed to have failed.”

To subvert the system of law in order to be “savage” against those who subvert the system of law, because they subvert the system of law, is to make oneself into them.  And to join them in destroying the system of law—contrary to one’s claim that one is actually about doing the opposite.

“And if the military isn’t going to shoot them on the White House lawn @ dawn, What’s left? Just keep sitting by while Congress trys not to writeanother check for his own personal war?”

We should throw the rule of law out the windowbecause Bush, et al., do—as proof that we don’t want the rule of law thrown out of the window?

“And your damn straight to suggest that an old Native Indian guide would do about now.”

Think so?  Check out Squanto’s trustworthiness.

“From what I’ve learned, they were the only one’s to ever have their shit together, but look what happened when the white savages showed up.”

Skinning, then burning alive, without the “technicality” of trial, is “having one’s shit together”?  To be preferred to distinguishing between the innocent, and the guilty, when it comes to skinning, and burning alive?

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By JNagarya, May 3, 2007 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

#67969 by TAO Walker on 5/03 at 5:28 pm
(45 comments total)

“It isn’t too often you get to watch someone having a “nervous breakdown” right in front of you, even in cyber-space.  That sure looks here to be what happened to JNagarya (#’s 67876 & 67879), in the middle of last night.”

Personal attack.  I oppose bigotry, without regard for which point on the political spectrum from which it lock-step marches.  Your smearing me is revealing about you—to everyone here.

“That it came in response to (or at least immediately after) this old Indian’s good-faith attempt to “meet” him . . . on the grounds of what he had himself earlier insisted was our common humanity,”

Show me where I did that, smug bigot.

“. . . is probably just one of those strange coincidences you frequently hear about but seldom actually see.  Thin-skinned people bursting with bile are of course always at risk of catastrophic disintegration, and yet seem all too often congenitally incapable of staying away from places (like these “comment” thread free-for-alls, for example) where “....the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune….” are almost certain to much sooner than later puncture their overblown self-images in some particularly tender spot.”

You posted racist diatribe after racist diatribe after racist diatribe, from a false ground of “moral superiority” and racist “supremacy,” none of which evidences “good faith,” before I finally decided to expose it—and therefore you—for what they and you are.  Your response?  Escalated personal attacks consistent with your constant racist swill.

Yet you don’t even have the basic facts of the relevant history to which you refer straight. 

One of my central focuses for over fifteen years has been legal history—beginning in 1620 with New-Plimoth (Plymouth) Colony, founded by Pilgrims.  And of Massachusetts-Bay, founded by Puritans.  Both originated in different circumstances and places in England; the Pilgrims travelled from Leyden, the Netherlands to this continent; the Puritans came from England to this continent.  Each had different “religons”—Pilgrims dissenters from Engand’s official “religion,” and Puritans adhering to that offical English “religion”.

The Pilgrims were poor; the Puritans included wealthy and politically-connected.

“Alas, it looks like poor Joseph has gone and stomped all over one of those metaphorical landmines mentioned in this Indian’s previous comment here, and so won’t be with us “....”

I simply stated the correct facts, against your ignorance thereof, but upon which you hope to rest your “argument”.  Not getting the basics right results in error.  But you aren’t concerned with the facts—or accuracy.  You are here only to spew your racist diatribes—to hell with fact and actual history, including the fact that there were conflicts—most based in ingorant bigotries—between the various Indian tribes long before the first English colonists set foot on this continent.

“Meantime, the echoes of his self-immolation are going to be with us until…..well, Hell freezes-over or the “truthdig” servers have to be purged to make room for more, whichever comes first.  Us Indians put the odds today at about even.”

Keep posting your racist swill, and I will continue to expose it—thus you—for what it—and you—are.  Truthful discourse is to be accurate in its use of fact—and the facts use correct and accurately stated.  That is especially mandatory when one is purportedly about truth against untruth and lies.

It’s your choice whether you continue to show yourself as the bigotted trashmouth you’ve so far consistently shown yourself to be.  Calling me names does nothing to rescue you from the hole you’ve publicly dug for yourself, or to vindicate your falsely-grounded self-serving racist swill.

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By TAO Walker, May 3, 2007 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment

Nitro (#67975) is gonna have legal beagle JNagarya jumping all over his (Nitro’s) own “case,” if he isn’t more careful in distinguishing who-said-what here.  The confusion is understandable, of course, given Joseph’s nasty habit of interlacing his own venomous outbursts in-with his more-and-more (with each of his all-too-frequent virtual drive-by “shootings”) truncated and out-of-context liftings from other peoples’ comments.  It doesn’t seem at all out-of-the-question that this subtrefuge is intended to snare just such clearly well-meaning but insufficiently wary “browsers” (here in Scheer’s rowdy bazaar) as our friend Nitro.

Let a word to the wise be enough here.  Those who protest too much their allegiance to “Law” and “Fact”, while neglecting themselves to exhibit “....a decent respect for the opinions of….” others, in discussion and discourse (in fact quite the opposite in Joseph’s own case), nor any regard whatsoever for any sensibilties but their own, might be someone better left alone to gnaw on the bones of their toxic discontent until they get sick-and-tired of being sick and tiresome.

That’s what this Indian means to do, anyhow.

HokaHey!

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By Nitro, May 3, 2007 at 12:42 pm Link to this comment

To JNagarya #67879 & TAO Walker #67824,
I feel a big misunderstanding is underway. I’m meant no offense or defense, or what ever that fense is. I was not calling anyone in particular a savage, lest that is what you know the “nowaday Puritans” would call those who would take a stand and remove those responsible for their actions we are commenting on, I thought.
Isn’t that what they always do, & have done since the war of King Phillip II, or what ever you are referring to there. Forgive me for not keeping up on all the history. I’ll research. But I’m sure what you speak, is but true.
And that’s what I’m talking about. If the lynching, tarring & feathering, running them out of town is considered “savage”, then let me be the first savage in this process, because all other “civilized” attempts at removing, one way or another,those responsible for all atrocities spoken of, seemed to have failed.
And if the military isn’t going to shoot them on the White House lawn @ dawn, What’s left? Just keep sitting by while Congress trys not to writeanother check for his own personal war? And once again we’re told he’ll do what ever he wants regardless.
Sounds like someone needs to get savage. That skinning & burning thing sounds kind of tempting…
But you spoke of the “tiyoshpaye way” of your Lakota relatives, and how the “Song “n” Dance” of life was not that unacheivable even in a collapsing atmosphere.
As with King Phillip II’s war, I am not that familiar with that way, but I know the way of the Cibola & remember what I was taught of being a good human being. And I assure you, I have no racist thoughts what so ever. I’m color blind and can only see through the eyes to the soul, where, whatever you are on the outside, cannot be clouded by what is within. The trick is filtering out that which is not true, and spoken with 2 tongues.
And your damn straight to suggest that an old Native Indian guide would do about now. From what I’ve learned, they were the only one’s to ever have their shit together, but look what happened when the white savages showed up.
So hope no mis understanding, and no fense. We have come a long way, and maybe we are on the horizon of a better organic government. I, like you and TAO, hope we make it through all the fire & smoke, and come out on the other side with something left.
Nitro

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By TAO Walker, May 3, 2007 at 11:58 am Link to this comment

It isn’t too often you get to watch someone having a “nervous breakdown” right in front of you, even in cyber-space.  That sure looks here to be what happened to JNagarya (#‘s 67876 & 67879), in the middle of last night.  There’s more evidence appended to the “Gonzalez’s Dirty Laundry” article, for those willing to risk losing their breakfasts….or lunches or dinners, as the case may be.

That it came in response to (or at least immediately after) this old Indian’s good-faith attempt to “meet” him (it turns out the J is for Joseph) on the grounds of what he had himself earlier insisted was our common humanity, is probably just one of those strange coincidences you frequently hear about but seldom actually see.  Thin-skinned people bursting with bile are of course always at risk of catastrophic disintegration, and yet seem all too often congenitally incapable of staying away from places (like these “comment” thread free-for-alls, for example) where “....the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune….” are almost certain to much sooner than later puncture their overblown self-images in some particularly tender spot.

Alas, it looks like poor Joseph has gone and stomped all over one of those metaphorical landmines mentioned in this Indian’s previous comment here, and so won’t be with us “....when we reach the other side.”  We can always catch him later, maybe….when he has simmered-down a little, and grown-up a lot.

Meantime, the echoes of his self-immolation are going to be with us until…..well, Hell freezes-over or the “truthdig” servers have to be purged to make room for more, whichever comes first.  Us Indians put the odds today at about even. 

HokaHey!

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By JNagarya, May 2, 2007 at 11:27 pm Link to this comment

#67824 by TAO Walker on 5/03 at 12:52 am
(41 comments total)

“The “Puritans” got that earlier ball rolling in “1621” when they slaughtered a village of the same people who’d only the winter before helped their murderers to make it through ‘til spring.”

You refer to New-Plimoth Colony—founded in 1620 by Pilgrims.

They were not “Puritans,” which were the founders of MA-Bay Colony.

If you can’t get the basic facts right, how can the house of cards constucted thereon be trustworthy?  But let’s look at a bitr more of your self-serving “truth”-telling—

“JNagarya’s hopes and expectations, as expressed in numerous comments appended to this article and others, for an establishmentarian-friendly outcome to all this, one in which the americandream and its institutional gridwork come through mostly intact, is certainly something to which s/he is entitled….even welcome.”

Rule of law.  I’ll bet you’ll claim (with no more evidence than anyone else, race irrelevant the “constitution” of the “Six Nations” was directly responsible for the US Constitution.  Make up your mind: either the rule of law is illegitimate, or it is legitimate.

“To the extent that it ignores serious flaws not only in that structure but in the fundamental character of theamericanpeople themselves, . . .”

Skinning English captives, and then burning them alive, was “civilized”.  Well, the Indians who did that apparently believed so.

And I’ll bet you object to torture—but only when done by other than your morally-superior high-minded peoples.  Torture, though it always has the same impact on its victims, is acceptable when the torturer can convince himself by lie that there is a difference between, on one hand, torture, and on the other, torture.

“Impeaching the two most visible U.S. frontmen for the fear-mongering plutoligarchy that has always ruled the “civilized” world, might provide a frustrated and frightened americanpublic with a little temporary relief.”

“Civilized”?  Check yourself out.

“But JNagarya may be correct in thinking that coin is going to be tossed at some point….will-ye, nill-ye.”

Leave me out of your bigot’s—racist’s—distorted and self-serving bullshit.  Especially your race-based condemnation of—only others’—racism.

“Lynching, though, is something else altogether, and strikes this old heathen as letting them off much too easy.”

Right: being “civilized,” you reject reasoned justice—call it “democracy”—out of hand because not equivalent to skinning, then burning alive.

Tell us, again, how your peoples were/are more “civilized” than all the other savages.

“We’re all walking in a mine-field here these days.”

Can you afford to be a divisive ass?

“We’d feel prety foolish if we got within a step or two of real organic freedom, . . . .”

Skinning, then burning alive, is about “civilization” and “freedom”.  Bushit holds identically: freedom from being alive based solely upon ill- and -un- and malinformed presumptuous racism.

Who are you, savage, to not merely accuse others of being savage, but also to demand that those savages—others than you—- be held to account for being savages?

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By JNagarya, May 2, 2007 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

#67824 by TAO Walker on 5/03 at 12:52 am
(41 comments total)

““King Phillip’s War” (JNagarya #67782) came about in much the same way “the Iraqi insurgency” has.  An armed invasion and occupation and resource grab put the Natives in a “nothing left to lose” situation, and the “Indians” (in both countries) fought back.”

False.  But expected generalization faked from ignorance of the specific facts.

Year war intitiated by “King Philip”: 1675.  (The laws enacted by MA-Bay Colony in response to this war regulating private, individual gun ownership included not only not selling weapons to Indians, but also repairing Indians’ guns.)

Causes/s of war: An Indian was murdered by two Indians.  Those two Indians were charged, tried, convicted, and executed.  “King Philip”—the third son of Massasoit*—used that as pretext to initiate war against the English colonists. 

*The Indian responsible for the survival of the New-Plimoth Colony Pilgrims.  I hold no brief for either side.  But the “wrong” was not all on one side or the other.  Check out the “trustworthiness” of Squanto.

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By TAO Walker, May 2, 2007 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

“King Phillip’s War” (JNagarya #67782) came about in much the same way “the Iraqi insurgency” has.  An armed invasion and occupation and resource grab put the Natives in a “nothing left to lose” situation, and the “Indians” (in both countries) fought back. 

The “Puritans” got that earlier ball rolling in “1621” when they slaughtered a village of the same people who’d only the winter before helped their murderers to make it through ‘til spring.  It was pretty much all downhill from there.  Until today we see the heirs and descendants of those “New England” gangsters running hard up-against the limits of “power” here on Turtle Island and all around the world….and about to crash and burn in the Middle East.

JNagarya’s hopes and expectations, as expressed in numerous comments appended to this article and others, for an establishmentarian-friendly outcome to all this, one in which the americandream and its institutional gridwork come through mostly intact, is certainly something to which s/he is entitled….even welcome.  To the extent that it ignores serious flaws not only in that structure but in the fundamental character of theamericanpeople themselves, faults that many here besides this old Savage acknowledge and say must be taken into account and corrected, however, it seems (to be kind about it) naively unrealistic.

Impeaching the two most visible U.S. frontmen for the fear-mongering plutoligarchy that has always ruled the “civilized” world, might provide a frustrated and frightened americanpublic with a little temporary relief.  It might just as easily accelerate the rogue regime’s timetable for widening its operations to include Iran and other places, not excluding near-neighbors Venezuela and Cuba.  Right now it looks like a coin-flip question on which “scenario” is more likely to play-out.  But JNagarya may be correct in thinking that coin is going to be tossed at some point….will-ye, nill-ye.

Nitro’s sentiments (#67805) are sure understandable, and the image of various junta members tarred-and-feathered and run outta town on rails is just too inviting not to indulge in it a little.  Lynching, though, is something else altogether, and strikes this old heathen as letting them off much too easy.  The rest of their miserable lives cleaning-up the depleted-uranium munitions detritus poisoning more-and-more of Iraq and Afghanistan everyday even now, might be a much more appropriate form of what the I Ching calls “....justice administered.”

We’re all walking in a mine-field here these days.  Maybe it’s best not to let our emotions runaway with our common sense.  We’d feel prety foolish if we got within a step or two of real organic freedom, after everything we’ve endured to get here, and then blew ourselves all to hell in an immature and useless fit-of-pique.

HokaHey!

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By Nitro, May 2, 2007 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment

To #67763 TAOWalker & #67785 JNagarya:
To my brothers who walk the wind for the Truth & Justice May the Great Spirit be with us all in our Song “n” Dance of Life. I stand with you in the Impeachment,& Lynching of those responsible for what they’ve all done. I even suggested an old fashioned tarring & feathering along with a lynching. I have even sent virtual & real post cards to Congress letting them all know EVERYONE must be responsible & held accountable for their actions. And I ended it with what may be the best alternative yet…
Yet we be labeled as “Un-Civilized,” as you know King George II would only unleash the National Guard Dogs on us as they have done to our ancestors, & still do to those who oppose if we went for a lynching, maybe one last attempt at a Civilized way to send a message to those who evidently do not understand the, what sounds like the majority consensus of the population, no more money, no more war, no more buck passing, no more Bull Shit!
The Alternative: NO MORE TAXES TILL MATTERS RESOLVED !!!
Since I believe most “good human beings,” can live on this planet & with each other in peace, till always some government man telling some other wise. Then we always have to start the shit, then come in & save the day.
Let them who want to war, war with themselves, if they want to war so bad. Find some deserted island or middle of nowhere place and give them all the guns they need to kill each other, and leave the rest of us out of it.
From the Land of Enchantment & of the Spirit Warriors, you know what I speak is true. Make sure the wind is to your back when you endeavor… Stand Tall, Stand Proud, Stand Firm, & Stand Smart !~
May the Winds of Change & The Great Spirit be with us all.
Your Brother in Spirit,
Nitro

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By JNagarya, May 2, 2007 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

#67668 by Vicki on 5/02 at 10:13 am
(Unregistered commenter)

“Why does Congress feel the need to come up with an alternate bill? Call the monster’s bluff. Let his veto stand. The war will be defunded and he will be forced to bring our troops home.”

When will you be learning not only something of politics—“the art of the possible”—but also how our system works?  One comes up with alternative bills for various reasons: one to show flexibility, the willingness to negotiate—that is called “democracy”.  And to show that the other side is unreasonable; thus in this instance Congress should do exactly as Shumer has said: pass bill after bill after bill after bill; eventually, after a half-dozen or so, Bushit will either finally sign it, or he will begin to face alternative means by which to force him to do as required, or be impeached.

“If he doesn’t, the American people will not bother with an impeachment but lynch him on the White House front lawn if the military generals don’t execute him by firing squad first.”

We don’t lynch lynchers for having committed the crime of lynching.  We leave that sort of “justice” to thugs like Bushit.

“The Damnocrats talk about ending the war, but rather than vague talk about ending it in the future, they can do it now. If they do, I’ll bet he will recall his veto and sign the bill.”

Huh?  And how would they do as you propose?  They would send a bill for him to sign, and he would veto it.  And you would continue to blame the “Damnocrats” for Bushit’s action.

“Reason this coward had the guts to veto the bill is that even before he vetoed it, Pelosi, Reid, Hillary and other Democratic leaders were already talking about drafting another bill and describing how it would be different, letting him know he would get away with his veto.”

No, it is not.  He vetoed it because he intends to continue the war at least long enough to dump it into the lap of the next president—with all probabilty a Democrat—so that for years after Republican’ts can smear Democrats as having “lost” Iraq.

Reid, et al., gave possible details of the next bill to demonstrate flexibility, and to make public the sorts of efforts they are making to stop the war.  “What combination and formulation of details would Bushit accept?”  Being unreasonable, he won’t accept any, thus will ultimately force Congress to force him to do as required on the evidence: that he refuses all efforts to change the course, and to end US involvement in Iraq.

“It’s like being a prize fighter and telling your opponent that you are going punch here next, then here next, etc. Rather telegraph him this message: No more money for the war if you don’t sign this bill.”

Learn how politics, and our system work—when they function democratically.

“Damnocrats talk and talk but when it comes to action, they are all talk. Either that or they won’t admit they support this illegal, criminal, murderous, unnecessary war.”

If only reality were limited to either/or extremes.

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By JNagarya, May 2, 2007 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

#67763 by TAO Walker on 5/02 at 7:25 pm
(39 comments total)

“Us free wild Indians have stuck through thick and thin with what our Lakota relatives call the “tiyoshpaye way.” The ancestors of our domesticated sisters and brothers also enjoyed the benefits of this natural human living arrangement.  Getting back to it, and back into the Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself here, shouldn’t be nearly as difficult as it probably looks from inside the collapsing contraption.  There might even be a few native guides around to show The Way.”

Detail for us all the proximate cause of King Philip’s War, and who initiated it.

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By JNagarya, May 2, 2007 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

#67636 by vet240 on 5/02 at 4:04 am
(Unregistered commenter)

“This is a prescription for chaos and confusion and we must not impose it on our troops,” Bush said.

” . . . .  He and his henchmen put our troops into the most confusing chaotic war this nation has ever found itself embroiled in.”

It’s no more confusing and chaotic than any war.  And both “revolution” and civil war were probably even ore so, in part becaue it was on our own soil, and in part because the enemy was ourselves.

“Our defeat was assured the day Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rice, Tenet, Rumsfield, and Powell started juggling the facts while Georgie played cowboy on his ranch.”

Yes: the war was lost before it began.

“. . . .  He’s as responsible for the deaths of our service personnel as the Iraqi Insurgents. But like in Vietnam, he never had to directly face an enemy or to fire a shot.”

Careful: he was never in Viet Nam.  These is a schematic of the facts—

1.  Kerry served two tours in Viet Nam.  Bushit served on a senate campaign in Alabama.

2.  Kerry was wounded.  Bushit was passed out drunk.

3.  Kerry was awarded medals.  Bushit wasn’t courts-martialed for going AWOL.

“IMPEACH!

“. . . .  How can the Majority in both houses continue to ignore their Constitutionally mandated responsibility to impeach.”

They aren’t ignoring it, as an early post (below) indicates.  And Murtha bringing it into public debate is the opposite of ignoring it.  Congress is well aware that impeachment is inevitable.  The difference is that, unlike lynching, proper, democratic due process takes time, as the latter must be based upon actual evidence.

“Are they in the loop too?”

Don’t be absurd.

“Perhaps we need a real third party.”

Research the history of the effectiveness of third parties—at splintering the vote, draining votes away from one or both of the two main parties.  They have had no other success.  That was shown as recently as 2000 Florida.

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By KIM HERSHNER, May 2, 2007 at 3:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

PLAIN & SIMPLE…..TWO THINGS…IMPEACH #1 & #2…WHO’S UP NEXT???  THATS IT ...THERE IS YOUR ANSWER!!

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By TAO Walker, May 2, 2007 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

Vicki (#67668) sure boils things down to the hard fact there just aren’t a lot of “viable options” anymore when it comes to actually doing something efficacious about the quite possibly terminal condition america’s condition is in right now.  Even short-term prospects for coming-up with any holding-action regimen look pretty grim, what with an entire government apparatus virtually paralyzed by the same damned-if-you-do, fucked-if-you-don’t “situation” it worked so very well to manufacture in the first place.

Could be it’s time to write-off the whole “experiment” as a lost cause, and to start looking carefully instead for those weak-points in its institutional machinery that’re most likely to fail first, so people might at least get some idea of which consequences of the over-all catastrophe are more imminent.  Chances aren’t totally non-existent that some of those in-harm’s-way, given a little specific warning, will remember in-time what it’ll take to weather the storm of america’s disintegration, along with that of the once merely “western” but now gone “global” civilization of which it is the linchpin.

Us free wild Indians have stuck through thick and thin with what our Lakota relatives call the “tiyoshpaye way.”  The ancestors of our domesticated sisters and brothers also enjoyed the benefits of this natural human living arrangement.  Getting back to it, and back into the Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself here, shouldn’t be nearly as difficult as it probably looks from inside the collapsing contraption.  There might even be a few native guides around to show The Way.

HokaHey!

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By Lord Byron, May 2, 2007 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Vicki:

<Let his veto stand. The war will be defunded and he will be forced to bring our troops home.>

Bravo!!!  That does make the MOSTS sense and would show the Democrats truly taking a stand against Bush and his
neo-con cronies!

I urge all of you to call your representatives and tell them not to put together another bill that pays for the US military occupation of Iraq. This must stop and it must stop with the funding of this disastrous and illegal invasion.

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By Vicki, May 2, 2007 at 4:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why does Congress feel the need to come up with an alternate bill? Call the monster’s bluff. Let his veto stand. The war will be defunded and he will be forced to bring our troops home. If he doesn’t, the American people will not bother with an impeachment but lynch him on the White House front lawn if the military generals don’t execute him by firing squad first.

The Damnocrats talk about ending the war, but rather than vague talk about ending it in the future, they can do it now. If they do, I’ll bet he will recall his veto and sign the bill.

Reason this coward had the guts to veto the bill is that even before he vetoed it, Pelosi, Reid, Hillary and other Democratic leaders were already talking about drafting another bill and describing how it would be different, letting him know he would get away with his veto. It’s like being a prize fighter and telling your opponent that you are going punch here next, then here next, etc. Rather telegraph him this message: No more money for the war if you don’t sign this bill.

Damnocrats talk and talk but when it comes to action, they are all talk. Either that or they won’t admit they support this illegal, criminal, murderous, unnecessary war.

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By vet240, May 1, 2007 at 10:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“This is a prescription for chaos and confusion and we must not impose it on our troops,” Bush said.

This guy has to be insane (for real). He and his henchmen put our troops into the most confusing chaotic war this nation has ever found itself embroiled in. Our defeat was assured the day Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rice, Tenet, Rumsfield, and Powell started juggling the facts while Georgie played cowboy on his ranch.

Why wouldn’t bu$h “shoot down this Bill”? He’s as responsible for the deaths of our service personnel as the Iraqi Insurgents. But like in Vietnam, he never had to directly face an enemy or to fire a shot.

IMPEACH!

There is irrefutable evidence that indicates at the least malfeasance, and at most treason. Malfeasance based on his failure to fullfill his responsibilities to protect America. Treason if they find that indeed the bush team rushed into Iraq based not on facts but on their own agenda.

How can the Majority in both houses continue to ignore their Constitutionally mandated responsibility to impeach. Are they in the loop too?

Perhaps we need a real third party.

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By Cesar, May 1, 2007 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We’ve got to be careful with our language on this one.  Bush did not veto the troop pullout bill.  The Congress sent him a bill titled the “Iraq Accountability Act”.  That is the bill he vetoed.  It contained his request for the money needed to continue the military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as money for Veteran Affairs.
Calling this the “troop pullout bill” is a way to carry water for the lazy MSM.

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By Mar Del Zur, May 1, 2007 at 10:18 pm Link to this comment

Begin the impeachment proceedings for Bush and Cheney…you can call it the “United States Accountability Bill” if you like.

The only enemy that poses any threat to the U.S. right now are the delusional neocons that are occupying the government.

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By 911truthdotorg, May 1, 2007 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

My God, he makes me completely sick to my stomach.

The piece of garbage vetoed the Iraq Accountability Bill today.

We need to get off of our asses and veto HIM or this
occupation that is killing and maiming our soldiers and the Iraqis is never going to end!

Please everyone call your Reps and Senators, Pelosi, Reid, Kucinich, Dean…EVERYONE to veto this SOB!!

And just when I thought he couldn’t disgust me any more than he does, I just read that the Minimum Wage Increase and Katrina Relief were attached to the Iraq bill.

So he vetoed them too.

I’m sure he sleeps like a baby monster.

Google video: 9/11 Press for Truth

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By Leefeller, May 1, 2007 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The war that never was a war is over, bring the troops home. Congress needs to get our rights back, they need to rebalnce the three branches of government.
The Republicans in Congress need to get on board.
Received this today, I am going to call tomorrow.

Speaker is taking tally for IMPEACHMENT:
 
Edited on Mon Apr-30-07 05:33 PM by sfexpat2000
From my Code Pink list:

“PLEASE CALL Nancy Pelosi’s office right now. Here’s
the deal as forwarded to me:

House Speaker Pelosi’s office is taking calls voting
for Impeachment of Bush/Cheney at 202-225-0100.

Folks, each of you who have been wanting Impeachment,
need to commit right now to ask at least 10 others to
call and ask each person to commit to asking 10 others
to call and so on. It needs to happen fast and NOW.
Let’s BLITZKREIG the Speaker’s office with demands for
Impeachment of Bush AND Cheney.

Please make a call, and thanks so very much.”

Edit to list Sapphire Blue’s suggestion to add CaliMary’s list of toll free numbers.

HERE IS A LIST OF TOLL FREE CAPITOL HILL SWITCHBOARD NUMBERS:

1 (800) 828 - 0498

1 (800) 459 - 1887

1 (800) 614 - 2803

1 (866) 340 - 9281

1 (866) 338 - 1015

1 (877) 851 - 6437

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By JNagarya, May 1, 2007 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

#67604 by DennisD on 5/01 at 7:23 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Congress - have the courage to cut off the funding and end the Bu$hwacking or resign. That’s the best plan I can come up with. How are these vermin not being impeached.”

Of the two houses of Congress, the Senate is the more conservative, cautious, “cool headed”.  Yet several Senators have begun talking of cutting off funding.

And one means to control an Executive note by Murtha: power of the purse.  Congress has exclusive authority to fund wars (thus obviously has legitimate say in foreign policy, though that is not the only indication of that fact).

This Congress is very much aware of the demands of We the people.  And this Congress is working to fulfill that demand. Lynching “wastes” no time; due process takes time.  But the latter is the essence of, maintenance of, best defense of, enforcement of democracy, which cannot exist without the rule of law.

We don’t lynch lynchers for having committed the crime of lynching.  We the people can and will do it: impeach, and for the first time in history, remove.

As Murtha demonstrated by using the word “impeachment,” Congress is listening, and will do that We the people demand; but they must do it in accordance with due process, rule of law, democracy—Constitution.

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By JNagarya, May 1, 2007 at 8:44 pm Link to this comment

“This is a prescription for chaos and confusion and we must not impose it on our troops,” Bush said in a nationally broadcast statement from the White House. He said the bill would “mandate a rigid and artificial deadline” for troop pullouts, and “it makes no sense to tell the enemy when you plan to start withdrawing.”

It makes no sense to tell “the enemy” that we are going to do a surge focused on Baghdad, so “the enemey” could leave Baghdad until the “surge” was over.

Yet Bushitter did exactly that.

We don’t know yet whether “the enemy,” upon leaving Iraq before the “surge”—no “incursion” around the word: esclaation—then surrounded Baghdad in order to pick off any US troops (and their collaborators) who might ventrue out of that city.

Remember when we had “control” of “the whole country”?  Now we’re down to trying to “take back” Baghdad from the Iraqis.  “Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction is obliged to follow rules—truth ain’t.”—Mark Twain.

US involvement in Viet Nam was continued based upon the exact same illusions, self-deciets, nonsense, and out-and-out lies.

Not-so-by-the-way: “riders” in the bill prohibited torture.  Bush is intent upon continuing that war crime.

One can support Bushit, et al., or one can support the troops.  One cannot support both.

Support the troops: Get them out of the line of fire.  Support the Constitution: get Bushit, et al., out of the gov’t and “renditioned” to the Hague for _fair_ trial.

UNDER OATH or UNDER ARREST.

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By DennisD, May 1, 2007 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Congress - have the courage to cut off the funding and end the Bu$hwacking or resign. That’s the best plan I can come up with. How are these vermin not being impeached.

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By QuyTran, May 1, 2007 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment

Don’t worry, Bush will shoot at his own legs with this stupid veto, very stupid !

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By Spinoza, May 1, 2007 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

I just wrote this letter to the editor of my local paper. It is absurd that the creep vetoed that stupid immoral appropriation bill. Please everyone writea letter.

Dear Editor,

Our Government is an embarrassment. We illegally and immorally attacked Iraq and further we have fought an occupiers imperialist war for 4 years with a resultant high death count and many Iraqi children suffering from malnutrition and cancers.

The overwhelming majority of Iraqis of every type want us to leave. The majority of American people want us to leave. Yet the Criminal Bushite regime refuses to leave.

I beg the people of this country to rise up and take back our country from this government.

Sincerely

Lewis Beyman

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