For the most part, it is idle and wasted talk to speak of creating a
new political party. The two parties, Democrat and Republican, have
won every United States presidential election since 1852 and have
controlled the United States Congress since at least 1856. Several
other third parties from time to time achieve relatively minor
representation at the national and state levels.  Independents
represent 25%,  Democrats 43%, Republicans 32%.  Republicans
have 49 seats in the House over the Democrats, and therefore
controls the House. Democrats have 4 seats more than Republicans
in the Senate, but that is more or less a simple majority and often a
60 vote majority is required.  If the Republicans are goosestepped-
determined to not let any significant legislation under President Obama
pass, and that is what has so far happened, with very little deviation,
then not much can happen unless it is an issue where the President can
legally veto or sign into law a bill.

Counting the Demcratic and Republican Parties there are already 51
political parties in the United State at this time.  Some of these are well
known such as the Green Party, Libertarian Party, Socialist Party and
none of these have received more than one digit percentage of votes in
national elections.  It is pipedreaming to think this country will change
from its current two party system.  Not that dreaming is bad, for it is
through dreaming that any change happens and reform is much easier
than trying to create a new party that has any chance at winning major
national elections.  Organizations like MoveOn do have an effect in
bringing to light the problems that need reformed but they do not
constitute a political party! 

In your July 11 post at 1:33am, MarthaA, you mentioned a mythical
group, called the Citizens of the Common Population.  If you could get a
group started, a movement if you will, called the Common Population
Party, within which the citizens can feel they are the party, are the force
in this country, you might start getting some traction.

Martha

You have one. Moveon.org
oh and Sierra Club oh and…
All these groups are shills for the pro-war, corporate corrupted two party system. They have also lost credibility because they are shills for the corporate Dems.
On the other hand

New Progressive Alliance
and
firedoglake

MK77, July 11 at 12:39 am,

It is definitely easy to get jaded; we have been set up to get
jaded and go along to get along, since there are only two
institutionalized political parties.

Citizens of the Common Population that want to represent their
own common population constituents are not allowed to in either
party.  Remember how Dennis Kucinich was black balled by the
Democratic Party when he ran for President against Bush as was
Ron Paul by the Republicans; both were apparently thought to not
lock step represent the party line.  We really need more
institutionalized political parties in the United States that are
EQUAL with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party
because none of the Common Population is being represented in
the United States.

The Republican Party definitely does not represent the common
population or the middle class and never will, but fools so many of
the common population that the Republicans always come up
balanced on the vote, which really bothers me that people of the
common populace as a rule have no idea what they are causing to
happen to the common population just by being Republicans. 
More than likely, no matter what happens, even if they are
starving to death, will always think they have done their political
duty as Republicans, never realizing they are helping the wealthy
autocratic, authoritarian capitalists destroy the infrastructure of
the common population and making themselves and their children
become Latin America type slave labor.

If the Republicans didn’t have the common population controlled
so well, the Democratic Party could be taken over by the populace,
but as long as half of the common populace think they are
Republicans it will be impossible.  We really need a Tea Party Type
Movement in the Democratic Party that will take over and pull the
Democratic Party back to the Left.

“What do you think of Alan Grayson in Florida that they drummed out of the Democratic Party?”

If I were younger I’d probably like the guy, but as somebody who’s observed a great deal of American politics over the years, I’d say he’s just another showboater who loves the sound of his own voice.

Some of these guys do cast good votes. Feingold, for instance, voted against the Iraq war and the Patriot Act. But on other issues they always seem somehow to make their peace with Mephistopheles and go the wrong way. I just don’t have any faith in my fellow man/woman anymore.

MK77, July 11 at 12:13 am,

When it comes to prospects of people who will
really represent the
common population, there just aren’t any.  What do
you think of Alan
Grayson in Florida that was drummed out of holding
office as a Representative in the Democratic Party
for his Florida District because he represented the populace?

“I really feel like Single Payer Health Care would be a benefit to the economy of the United States for all those really interested in an economy for the United States that includes everyone, not just the
30% at the top of the pyramid…”
—-

I agree, but I don’t see the insurance industry going quietly into the night. It spends tens of millions of dollars on Congress to make sure nothing ever happens—or if it does, that it happens for the worse, such as passage of the recent healthcare bill, written by a WellPoint executive.

The tragedy is that we have more than enough money to fund something like Medicare-for-all if we really wanted to. Unfortunately, our political class would rather spend trillions of dollars on the Pentagon and on wars.

MK77, July 11 at 12:13 am,

When it comes to prospects of people who will really represent the
common population, there just aren’t any.  What do you think of Alan
Grayson in Florida that they drummed out of the Democratic Party?

Martha,
I’m more cynical than you. I believe that every politician, man or woman, ultimately looks out for himself and his own interests at the end of the day.

Who knows what Obama said to Kucinich on Air Force One? A better man, nevertheless, would have told Obama “no” and declared the healthcare bill a fraud, even if that meant losing his next election.

MK77, July 10 at 11:19 pm,

It is depressing to find out that Vermont didn’t really get Single
Payer Health Care.

I really feel like Single Payer Health Care would be a benefit to the
economy of the United States for all those really interested in an
economy for the United States that includes everyone, not just the
30% at the top of the pyramid, because not only would Single
Payer Health Care make the population healthier, it would make
many jobs with profit being made for actual benefit, instead of
unneeded surgeries and medicines strictly for greed killing many of
the population off before their time.

MK77, July 10 at 10:59 pm,

Yes, I am for Single Payer and I would not have voted for forcing the common population to buy Health Care Insurance any more than I would auto
insurance; I think auto insurance is an abomination for the common population who can only afford liability and hope like heck if they get in an accident that it won’t be their fault, or they will lose everything plus an arm and a leg and possibly their first born—or be jailed because they can’t afford it and the state gets their children.

I think both Rep. Dennis Kucinich and Sen. Bernie Sanders were both
lied to to get their vote—or manipulated in some way.  It would be nice to know what was really said on those little trips they took that
turned them around, it was certainly discouraging
at the time.

MK

Argghhhhhhh

Sweet mother of Jesus.

I should have known. For the record, the same thing happened in Minnesota. There was a Bill introduced that was billed as Single Payer. It also was not for the exact same reason that you gave.

Not to worry.. That faux Single Payer Bill was shot down in favor of an even worse bill that the Democratic establishment supported.

That bill was shot down with the assistance of the MNA Minnesota Nurses Assoc, Micah Liberal Church based Housing Advocacy group and Take Action Minnesota (“progressive” group of Democratic Party shills).

I was a member of the MNA and left them over that betrayal.

So tired of being lied to folks? Tired of “progressive” blogs that ONLY allow Dem Apologist articles?

firedoglake

Or do some actual work to organize an opposition to the corporate corrupted, pro-war two party system?

New Progressive Alliance

To the rest

PLEASE remain at Truthdig, Common Dreams, Truthout, Daily KOS or Huff Post.

Seriously, Please do..

Because we have work to do.

Carry on with your bloviating
and talk talk talk talk talk

Michael,
I agree with everything you said but take issue with you about single payer having been established in Vermont.

See “Not Single Payer In Vermont”:

http://www.singlepayeraction.org/blog/?p=2907

“...there are good features to the bill that are doing a lot of people a lot of good…”
—-

This is not the position of single-payer advocates & experts like Marcia Angell, former editor of The New England Journal of Medicine, who’s on record saying no bill at all would have been preferable to the health mandate that was passed.

Dennis Kucinich explained, in detail why the Obama Bill was WORSE than no Bill. Precisely because it forced people to buy into corporate healthcare. It also has sections where any state that wants to introduce Single Payer can be challenged and potentially stopped from doing so. He attempted to introduce the Kucinich Amendment that would instead allow individual states to introduce their own state wide Single Payer Bill.

THEN Kucinich took his infamous airplane ride. The very next day he agreed to support the Obama Bill.

So did “brave” Bernie Sanders. Now Vermont has passed a state wide Single Payer Bill. It will have to fight the provision of the Obama Bill that does not allow it. They shall ironically have to use the 10th Amendment provision of states rights to do so.

THOSE are the god damned facts that Dem apologists refuse to deal with.

Martha,
You didn’t answer my questions:

“Do you support a single-payer health system? If so, would you have voted for the HC bill forcing every American by law to buy private insurance?”

Dennis and Bernie voted for it.

MK77, July 10 at 9:51 pm,

What you don’t seem to understand is that Senator Sanders is
ALONE.  Senator Sanders is not a Democrat.  There is NO
Independent Political Party.  The Democratic Party rules, they just
choose to go along with the Republicans.  I think Senator Sanders
does really well for one person alone.  How can you compare Sen.
Sanders with traitorous Joe Lieberman, who was
a Democrat?  Senator Sanders never has been a
Democrat.

DLC Lieberman was a camouflaged Republican Lite Right Democrat
who voted with the Republicans, when the voters kicked him out
with their votes, he was then returned by the Republicans and
even represented Republicans outright against Democrats as
there were so many DLC Republican Lite Right Democrats in the
Democratic Party that it didn’t matter, and Traitorous Joe was
allowed to sit with the Democrats and caucus with the Democrats
—none of the Democrats should have allowed Traitorous Joe who
the populace had just kicked out to return to the same old
caucuses as if nothing had happened, but they did, because the
populace no longer matters.  Joe Lieberman should have been
black balled, but he wasn’t, because he was one of the DLC “New
World Order” PNAC bunch that still rules the House and Senate, 
or War wouldn’t be off the table in figuring the
budget, but it is.  They all agree not to talk about
the multiple wars, as if all that matters is the part
of the budget that is of benefit to the populace
and war is taken off the table for the destruction
of the populace.

Yeah yeah yeah, THEN they voted for it.  Yeah because some health
care for the poor is better than no health care for the poor, and
there are good features to the bill that are doing a lot of people a
lot of good, and while it is one thing to grandstand, and beat the
chest, the fight against the goosestepping Republicans is the force
destroying this country, and it took grotesque hurdles to get the
health care reform that was finally achieved and Kucinich and
Sanders knew that something was better than nothing.  You
obviously don’t need health care yourselves so you are not the
best judges.  If you kept the Republicans to a minimum who could
not filibuster or block legislation otherwise, then you would get your
single payer coverage!

“Of course he is not a spineless/jellyfish/democrat.”
——

Of course he is:

“Sen. Sanders Explains Why He’s Going To Vote for the Health Care Bill”

http://bit.ly/8u6gWp

Michael and Martha,

Should we judge a man’s reputation by his actions, or his actions by his reputation?

Who cares what Senator Sanders calls himself if on the one occasion when his “no” vote is truly needed he votes “yes”?

Do the two of you support a single-payer health system? If so, would you have voted for the HC bill forcing the citizenry to buy private insurance?

Dennis and Bernie did.

Of course he is not a spineless/jellyfish/democrat.

MK77, July 10 at 9:43 pm,

Sen. Sanders looks good to me as compared with the rest.  If he
would run for President, you can bet that I would vote for him.

Health Care Is a Human Right
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/272-39/5886-health-care-is-a-human-right

Project Vote Smart - Sen. Bernie Sanders voting:
http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=27110&type=category&category=38&go;.x=7&go;.y=14

It all looks pretty good to me, maybe you can point out what you
are talking about.  President Obama took Single Payer off the
table, not Senator Sanders.

MK

Actually Sanders and Kucinich both did call the Bill an agregious fraud. They both explained in detail why it was a fraud.

Kucinich even tried to have an amendment (the Kucinich amendment) which would have taken out the section of the bill that forbade states from enacting their own version of Single Payer.. It did not pass committee.

THEN they voted for it.

Dear God. These Democrat shills are just plain liars.

But then Democrats. What should we expect?

So anyway

Firedoglake
where articles that are NOT apologists for the corporate corrupted two party system are actually allowed.

Then for those willing to do more than bloviate and talk and talk and talk and talk

New Progressive Alliance
newprogs.org

Russell Mokhiber, writing for singlepayeraction.org, on Bernie Sanders*:

“Bernie Sanders (I-Vermont) says he’s an independent. He says he’s for single payer national health insurance. He says he’s a socialist.

“If all of that is true, why won’t Bernie Sanders fight for the American people? The way Joseph Lieberman (I-Connecticut) fights for the insurance industry?

“In fact, on health insurance, Bernie Sanders will not stand up to the Democratic leadership in the Senate.

“And stand for single payer.

“We saw this earlier this month, when Sanders went along with the Democrats and allowed debate to go forward on what can only be described as a bailout for the health insurance industry.

“Sanders could have voted no. And explained his principled opposition to the health insurance industry bailout bill — also known as Obamacare.

“And explained why single payer was the only system that both controls costs and covers everyone.

“This would have put single payer back on the table. But no. Sanders is not willing to stand up to Harry Reid and Barack Obama.”

http://www.singlepayeraction.org/blog/?p=1767

*This article said Kucinich was opposed to Obamacare. In fact, Kucinich ended up voting for the bill.

Martha, Shenonymous et al.,

Sorry to say, but you’re very naive.

Sanders can say anything he wants; he call himself this, that or the other thing. He can grandstand for hours at a time, exalt the old, the sick, and the needy, but what matters is how he actually votes when it really matters.

He voted for the healthcare bill. Look it up. So did everybody else’s little darling from Cleveland, Kucinich. Yes, the 2 BIG LOUDMOUTHS droning on and on about single payer; yes, they voted for the healthcare mandate.

They didn’t have to vote that way. They had a choice. They could’ve stood up and declared the bill to be an egregious fraud, but they didn’t.

Endless chatter, introducing amendments you know won’t go anywhere, etc.—these things don’t count, and people like Sanders know it.

If you have time, check out http://www.singlepayeraction.org and Physicians for a National Health program.

MK77 you might check out your facts before you shoot off your
mouth.

July 10, 2011
http://sanders.senate.gov/legislation/issue/?id=a5823331-b1c8-46a1-864f-a5986cf82a9b
Sanders has introduced the Senate’s only single-payer health
insurance proposal (S.703) which would created a state-
administered system.  He has also introduced legislation that
would allow five states to experiment with a variety of methods
to provide all state residents with health care coverage (S. 898).
Through these experiments, Sanders believes the single-payer
approach will be proven to be the most cost-effective program
and will expand nationally.

Tuesday, May 10, 2011 by The Guardian/UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/10/healthcare-congress
and CommonDreams July 10, 2011
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/10-6
Single Payer Health: It’s Only Fair by Bernie Sanders
US healthcare is grossly distorted by waste and profit, while
millions go uninsured. Americans deserve full universal coverage

And as far back as Aug 28, 2009
On the Ed Schultz Show
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-show-bernie-sanders-need-single-payer-health
Ed Show: Bernie Sanders on the Need for a Single Payer Health
Care System

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/11/sen_bernie_sanders_vermont_sta.html
The Washington Post by Ezra Klein 11/18/2010
Sen. Bernie Sanders: ‘Vermont stands a chance to be the first
state in the nation to pass single-payer’

If Bernie Sanders votes with the corporatist every time, why was he attempting to enforce and reign in the oil speculators for jacking up the price of oil?

I do not know Bernie Sanders voting record, but saying he votes with the corporatist every time seems to be a stretch.

Sometimes I wonder if poster comments are coming from shrills of the right or the left, liberals or conservatives, a lot of the time they seem one and the same, especially when they are programed to be divisive and provide nothing of substance, like a frocking source!

MK77, July 10 at 7:45 pm,

I thought Sen. Sanders was for Single Payer Health Care.

Sanders, like Dennis Kucinich, talks a good game, he strikes a tough pose, but when the chips are down, he votes with the corporatists every time.

Exhibit A: the healthcare bill, which was written by Liz Fowler, a former WellPoint executive.

The bill forces everyone by law to buy health insurance; those who refuse will have to pay an extra 3% or more in income taxes.

Those of us who favor single payer needed Sanders to vote down the fraudulent bill and expose his colleagues for the crooks and phonies that they are. But what did tough-talking “socialist” Bernie do in the end? He voted for the mandate; he voted to line the pockets of some of the scummiest corporations on earth.

Why anyone gives this guy the time of day is beyond me.

Conservative and Moderate Democrats have agreed to corporate
collusion with the government.  Senator Bernie Sanders is no
Democrat, just has to sit with the Democrats.  There needs to be a
political party that supports Senator Bernie Sanders, but there isn’t.

http://www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/345-justice/6564-focus-why-no-one-on-wall-street-is-going-to-jail

Bernie Sanders is the only lucid politician in Washington.  How can
we help him?  Going to his website might give some clues.  And
speaking out anywhere and anytime one can your agreement with
his observations and actions. 

The word kabuki is getting so overworked and so are the little gray
cells in the Right-Wing Nuts’ small brains. 

It has been known for years and years that Social Security has been
funding many special projects of the slimy politicians in the Beltway.
That is why progressive have to stand like a stainless steel beam
against any further robbing of “our” own funded safety net.

firedoglake
or
New Progressive Alliance
newprogs.org

Get off of the Kabuki Theatre charade.

Is Bernie Sanders or Russ Feingold or any other “progressive” leader willing to challenge Obama in a primary race?

No.

Bernie Sanders is not protecting SS. Bernie Sanders is making pretty speeches and protecting the pro-war, corporate corrupted Democratic Party. As well as the Kabuki Theatre of the absurd of this pseudo democracy that we live in.

Steve E, July 9 at 5:36 pm,

Don’t be a pessimist, the United States will live and grow stronger,
just as soon as we wipe out the corporate deregulating corruption.

Yes Felicity

I did a couple of years ago, go to the Government Records and look to see how much excess money was collected yearly for Social Security, Medicare, and also Medicaid.

Although no wage earner money is deducted from pay checks for Medicaid, Medicaid is funded out of SS and Medicare collections. 

At that time, the current excess collected, over the payouts for the total of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid was $270 Billion.  So I went back to the inception of Medicare and applied the $270 Billion figure to reach my Total of excess payments of $6.5 Trillion( 6,500 Billion).  If you divide 6,500 by 270 you will see that it would take 24 years of $270 excess collections to get to the $6.5 Trillion figure.  Now just think about it, 24 years takes us back to 1987.

Therefore since SS has been alive since 1935 and Medicare since 1965, and the fact that I haven’t included any interest on the money the Government was supposedly holding for us, I think the $6.5 Trillion just might be considered a low ball of the actual.

Cliff Carson - thanks for the info, and perhaps you can
answer this question for me - I have understood that
there are more IOU’s in the SS fund than actual funds
because politicians have been dipping into the fund for
years and leaving IOU’s in place.  And, it’s the IOU’s
that they want to stiff us on, in other words they
don’t want to honor them. 

(Anyone but I, an Internet dolt, could probably find
this out.)

If it was ‘National’ security instead of ‘Social’ security, money would be lavished as never before.

Currently the cap for 2011 is $106,800, I think we should make it unlimited and fund this lifeline to senior Americans and the less fortunate who worked their entire lives making many rich.

The wealthiest and powerful created the economic crisis (and got even wealthier from it) and the rest of us are expected to make up for deficits?  What is there to discuss?  To honor these politicians with discussions is humiliating already.  They love feedback and discussions so they can make the problem feel real and legitimate.  The only answer to this folly is massive opposition.

I suppose my next letter to the White House will be a request that instead of cutting my social security tax (if I survive until that time or if I have not rescinded my US citizenship), I would rather they bring the troops home and stop investing upwards of just under 1 Billion dollars a month for their MIC and warfronts.  I do not agree with the allocation of my contribution to taxes nor the deficit expansion and would rather keep my SS as it has been taken out of my paychecks for over 2 decades.

Maybe Obama will listen to my tweat on his Twitter account?

But of course Bernie is right.

Social Security has not added one cent to the debt or the deficit.  And I do disagree with Bernie that there is $2.5 Trillion owed to the People.  By owed I mean already collected from workers’s payrolls.  Since the payrolls collection has been in excess of the payout from the beginning, I have calculated the money stolen from the Social Security fund to be in excess of $6.5 Trillion.  Enough to take us to the year 2100.

The same is true of Medicare, another “Entitlement” that is due to be gutted.  It has also paid its way since its inception.

You think when the Government guts these programs that they will end?  The answer is, no they will not, but the payback will decrease - but not what you will have to pay for them - that will increase.

I saw a Republican Senator on C-Span the other day who was explaining that we can’t cut out the tax breaks for the top 1% because those people are the ones who provide our economy with jobs.  We should give them more tax breaks he said.

Is lowering the benefits of Social Security a tax raise for the Seniors he was asked?  Not at all he said.  Social Security is a Welfare Program and it is nothing but a giveaway that costs the Treasury a Trillion Dollars a year.

The host failed to ask him how, if Social Security paid into the treasury more than it took out, just how could that be contributing to the deficit or the debt?

But that wasn’t a surprise to me because I have yet to see a Congress Person say on TV that SS pays in more than it takes out.

And I don’t believe I can hold my breath until one of them does.

Slowly; one at a time; one more nail in the coffin of
the late, great, USofA…rip…

It seems like Bernie does this grandstanding schtick on every important issue
much like Pelosi. Ah well, so much for theatrics and kabuki. We all know we are
gonna get screwed and there is nobody to stop it from happening. America is
dying.