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Ear to the Ground

Arizona Congresswoman Shot (Update 3)

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Posted on Jan 8, 2011
Photo from Rep. Giffords' Facebook page

A congresswoman is in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the head, six people are dead and 12 others are wounded after a gunman opened fire at an official event Saturday.

Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head when a man opened fire at a Safeway store in Tucson. As of this posting six people, including a Giffords aide, are dead, 12 others, possibly including a federal judge, are injured and Giffords is in surgery, according to reports.

Giffords and her staff were holding a constituent meeting at the Safeway at the time of the shooting.

President Obama will hold a press conference later in the day. He released a statement saying “such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society.”

Update: The New York Times reported Sunday that U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona remains in critical condition, but doctors said she was able to respond to simple commands a day after she was wounded in the head in a shooting rampage in Tucson.

The New York Times

Representative Gabrielle Giffords, the Arizona Democrat who was gravely wounded in a shooting rampage, remained in critical condition on Sunday but has been able to respond to simple commands, and her doctors described themselves as “cautiously optimistic” about her recovery.

At a news conference at University Medical Center, the congresswoman’s doctors said that she was the only one of the victims of Saturday’s shooting to remain in critical care at the hospital. They said that she was lucky to be alive but would not speculate about the degree of her recovery, which they said could take months or longer.

“When you get shot in the head and a bullet goes through your brain, your chances of living are very small,” said Dr. Peter Rhee, the chief of trauma surgery at University Medical Center, where Ms. Giffords was brought by helicopter from the shooting scene outside a supermarket north of Tucson. “Your chances of waking up and being able to follow commands are even smaller than that,” Dr. Rhee said.

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By ardee, January 16, 2011 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

Leefeller, January 15 at 4:09 pm

You are certainly free to ignore the penchant of
your windy friend to post absurdities and insult those who point said absurdities out. Just as those who have been the target of this bilious poster are free to note that fact as well.

I, myself, have posted angry retort. The difference being that I respond to insult with insult while an ill wind spoils honest debate with such.

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By Leefeller, January 15, 2011 at 11:09 am Link to this comment

Yeah! .....ITW, will you quit telling those who keep stepping in their own shit,  that they also carry an odious stench…. .... otherwise ITW; ....quit attacking you people?

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By ardee, January 15, 2011 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

Gulam, January 12 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

You people who have been attacked by Inherit the Wind really should have a look
at a thread on this site where she really went nuts:

Why? This has been a normal pattern for this poster since my arrival here, so what else is new?

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By Inherit The Wind, January 14, 2011 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

There is no “situation”. There is not a “Jewish problem”, just like there isn’t a “Black problem” or a “Hispanic problem” or an “Irish problem”. 

There is, of course, a RACIST problem, and a BIGOT problem, like there’s a financial problem and an economic problem and an unemployment problem.

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By Gulam, January 12, 2011 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

You people who have been attacked by Inherit the Wind really should have a look
at a thread on this site where she really went nuts:

http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/huck_finn_dawkins_20110106/

I would very much like other users of this site to tell us who stepped over the line,
me or Inherit the Wind. I can defend myself well enough, and my Hebrew teachers
would be highly amused, but if this site is to be a useful place for sane people to
discuss important matters this kind of wild and insane accusation is totally out of
place:

“Why don’t you just be honest and say what you think straight out: That all of us
Jews are dirty, thieving conniving enemies of all mankind.”

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By PatrickHenry, January 11, 2011 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

Steny Hoyer is accompanied by his entourage of state police and aides and I assume most congressional level senators and representatives are.

It should be fairly easy to get a concealed carry license if you are a congressional aide with credentials, even in D.C.

Taxpayer funded tax bailouts of banks, the Iraq/Afghan war, Obamacare vs single payer, all these issues which have a majority of Americans pitted against our Congressional leadership will bring out the crazies sooner or later.

Break out the bulletproof underwear.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 11, 2011 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

Garth,
I’m all for honesty.  You can start by not making up and posting bullshit about my views.

I do not and never have unconditionally defended Israel or Israeli excesses, but I am well aware that their actions can fuel anti-Semites and give them the excuse they’ve been waiting for.

Plus you are so disjointed I simply don’t know WTF you are talking about.

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By garth, January 11, 2011 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

Amy Goodman has returned from her Aimee Goodman identity to report today that the head of Mossad in his retirement has said that Iran was never “less” than 5 years away from building a nuclear weapon.  She cites technical difficulties, the kind that the American Marine who studied these thing and appeared before Congress to testify only to be shut down by our own smiling, foul-mouth, Vice Pesident, Joe “Joe” Biden.

I’ve forgotten his name but he was an ex-marine and he had the balls to appear before a group of Jews in 2006 or 07 at some meeting in Philadelphia and explain to them in layman’s terms just how difficult it was to build a nuclear weapon. 

The purity needed is a 98% to 99% and that is through a series of centrifuges.  And the chance for error is almost insurmountable unless of course you have someone to steer you through the obstacles.

Charles “The Kraut” Hammer repeated on “Inside Washington” that the attack on Iran can be put off two years because the Mossad and the CIA introduced a worm into Iran’s computer system at its nuclear sites that caused havoc.  That’s ThinkTankism in full bore.

Meanwhile, the worst thing that is being done to us in this country is that we are being kept in a state of mind of reactionary juveniles.

Point:

About 50 years ago a few of my friends as college freshmen got together.  One was ridiculing his roomate because the roomate had a picture of his girlfriend on the wall with arrows pointing to it, in a sort of radiance.  Not only that.  His favorite song was “Cherish”.

We all laughed and agreed.

None of us knew him and none of us took into account how important this relationship might have been to him.  We laughed again when it was brought up.

Well, that is the fix that they’ve got the American Zeitgeist in.  If you don’t react appropriately, you are a ‘mouth-breathing’ (Jon Keller of BZ Boston’s term) bigot, anti-semite, racist, whatever.

I wonder if Jon Keller ever boxed.  I did and later in life I suffered from a deviated septum and breathed though my mouth before it was corrected by surgery.

Reactionary Americans is what they are after.

Keep your powder dry.

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By garth, January 11, 2011 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment

Has anyone noticed how the news focus on this crime has shifted from the crime itself to inflammatory rhetoric to gun control?

It’s like they don’t want to get to the bottom of this issue before they get some legislation passed.

ITW,

Your reaction leads me to believe that there is a story behind the story, as Larry Glick of Boston talk radio used to say.

Maybe we should ask Mr. Berlet of the Southern Poverty Law Center if they were willing to sacrifice one of their own to get laws passed that will limit Free Speech and restrict the NRA power over the congress?

George W. did it with star football player of the Arizona Cardinals.  They thunk that he was worth more to them dead, so they used his story as a propaganda tool until the shit hit the fan.

Find out who was that cab driver was and interview him.  They can at least get a lookalike as they did with some of the media hype about Osama bin Laden.

Berlet parodied the ones that the Southern Poverty Law Center has investigated the skin heads but they don’t investigate AIPAC to see if they bear undue influence on Congress.

Hmmmmm.

It’s wonderfull to have a mantra, ‘Anti-semitism’ to hang on to and decry anything you’re against.  You can just about do anything you want like back Israel in its genocide-in-motion of the Palestinians. 

I wish I and many others had such a powerful excuse and the access to the microphone.

I know, let’s have a town hall meeting on prime time tv, a focus group of the wishy-washy, whimpy, $5000-suits in the news media to hash this thing out and say all the right things.

We can all wring our hands and go out and lie through our teeth to one another, a sort of nicey-nicey routine, and let AIPAC and it’s paid-in-full prostitutes in Congress ratchet the stress another degree.

Again, there is a coverup.

Why not start being honest now?

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By Inherit The Wind, January 11, 2011 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

Notice Cong. Giffords’ statement ” I HAVE a Glock 9mm…”

But she damn well doesn’t walk around with it!

Then she said “And I’m a pretty fair shot.”

My brother is a GREAT shot, with any kind of gun.  But he doesn’t keep a gun, especially a hand-gun.

The need to walk around with a gun as protection for the average citizen is fantasy. Not everybody at Ms. Giffords’ meet-and-greet was a liberal or a Democrat (and it has been implied that if there had been “real men” there they would have shot this guy).  There were a number of Conservatives and Republicans there, at least 2 of which were victims as well, including the judge.

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By RayLan, January 11, 2011 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

@ChaviztaKing,
Actually Chris Hedges and Chomsky agree that the American people’s anger is justified, because the political system has disenfranchised them. The two party system just doesn’t deliver because it thrives in the back pockets of the big corporations.

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By Lafayette, January 11, 2011 at 3:54 am Link to this comment

CK: Oh another thing i wanna say. Americans have a legitimate right to be angry and to hate US government.

And this is the sort of asinine blather that should be excised from a public blog—which becomes a recipient for any mindless crap. It is a prime example of the sort of violent rhetoric that prevails in American politics and even political debate. Hate is never justified.

It’s author has never lived in a non-democratic country that subjugates people who therefore do not have the same human right to elect their representatives as we do. We, the people, chose the political class that runs all the administrations - from Washington to Main St. “They” are us.

It also indicates a probable mental disorder by which one’s own personal problems are assimilated with some higher or influential power that is supposedly responsible for our present misery. It is a potent psychological force—as events in Tucson proved recently and as political assassinations have proven for centuries.

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By Lafayette, January 11, 2011 at 3:38 am Link to this comment

THE ALMIGHTY BUCK

Congresswoman Giffords: “I have a Glock 9 millimeter, and I’m a pretty good shot.”

Assassins and American History

Is there a tie between political speech and the violent acts of unbalanced individuals?

The quip, by Representative Gabrielle Giffords, was made in an interview last year with The New York Times, when tensions were running high in her district. It speaks not only to her ability to defend herself but also to the passionate gun culture in Arizona, which crosses political lines and is notable for its fierceness, even in the West.

People who play with fire ultimately get burnt.

Giffords was doing what any politician would do in his/her constituency—be like “one of the them” in order to get elected. She can’t be faulted for this tactic.

What can be faulted is the fact that guns play such an important role in some communities—and this is an entirely American phenomenon. In most other developed countries, guns are strictly regulated. Which is why these countries also demonstrate far lower firearm deaths (due both to homicide and suicide).

But is there not also another more psychological phenomenon at work? That of the Hollywood Cowboy delivering justice out of the barrel of a gun? This Hollywood Hero was quite popular at the cinema until very recently—until the film Brokeback Mountain changed the coloration a bit.

Yes, America is a violent nation. It goes to war at a drop of a hat. The stats show some of the highest rates of both violence against females as well as acts of violence in general.

That means the culture is, somewhere, at fault. And I suspect the fault-line can be found in our schools. Whatever are they teaching our youth? That violence is “O-K” because life is such a bummer?

And if they are not teaching that (let’s hope); where is the notion coming from? Hollywood, I say.

If the blogosphere is wild about “violent political rhetoric” (on both sides of the aisle, but more so amongst the Troglodyte Right), who’s to blame? What prompted politicians to use such rhetorical rage in public? (Such language was once socially taboo.)

Hollywood, in its search for the Almighty Buck - that’s who ...

POST SCRIPTUM: Foundation Stones

Yes, I am old enough to remember my mother instructing her children in what was Polite Talk and what was not. Of course, she was no “pistol packing mama”. Had I had one, maybe I too would be today in jail on a homicide charge.

Values must be inculcated by the family. But when children are having children, that cannot possibly happen. One cannot instruct children as regards social values that one has never had.

And yet, such values are the foundation stones of our civilization.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 10, 2011 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

Garth:
I have NO idea WTF you are saying but it sounds like you are saying Cong. Gifford was:
1) Too smart
2) Too Jewish
3) Too elite, having gone to Scripps.
4) (you left off “too pretty”)

Should I infer that you think that justifies her being shot in the head?

Because it sure as hell sounds like that!

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By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

Oh another thing i wanna say. Americans have a legitimate right to be angry and to hate US government.  Maybe this crazy shooter is a trait of the anger of americans, maybe this is a just a consequence of hatred of US citizens against US government and the satanic 5% oligarchic-ruling class

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By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 3:36 pm Link to this comment

Hi again, this is just to say that I don’t know what happened to my last posts that they got repeated many times. It must have been a browser error

.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 10, 2011 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

some people will exploit any tragedy to further their own ends, as they chase some phony “ideal” utopia.

Remember, folks, “Utopia” means NOWHERE!

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By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

Gifford’s Shooting Scene has MK ULTRA Profile

http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/az-congresswoman-assassination-scenario-has-mkultra-profile-drug-space-target?render=print#print


The mass political assassination attack in Tucson, AZ on Saturday January 8, 2011 that as of 2:44 pm pst had left six people dead and eighteen shot were shot during the attack has a marked MKULTRA profile, and of suppression of drug cartel investigation and of expansion the U.S. space program as one of its effects.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was reported in grave condition and in surgery at University Medical Center in Tucson, after the shooting in a Safeway supermarket parking lot.

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ChaviztaKing's avatar

By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

Gifford’s Shooting Scene has MK ULTRA Profile

http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/az-congresswoman-assassination-scenario-has-mkultra-profile-drug-space-target?render=print#print


The mass political assassination attack in Tucson, AZ on Saturday January 8, 2011 that as of 2:44 pm pst had left six people dead and eighteen shot were shot during the attack has a marked MKULTRA profile, and of suppression of drug cartel investigation and of expansion the U.S. space program as one of its effects.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was reported in grave condition and in surgery at University Medical Center in Tucson, after the shooting in a Safeway supermarket parking lot.

One news report states,

“The suspect in the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and others, Jared Loughner, posted a You Tube video three weeks ago indicating that “in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!” as well as a MySpace post saying goodbye to friends.

“According to MSNBC, “Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22. Pima County Sheriff’s officials said he used a pistol to carry out the shooting spree. U.S. officials who provided his name to the AP spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release it publicly.”

“In a You Tube video attributed to Jared Lee Loughner, which was posted approximately about three weeks ago, Loughner states, in part:

“This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming: the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don’t dream – sadly.


“In conclusion, my ambition – is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming! Thank you!

“The MSNBC report also indicates that federal law enforcement officials were analyzing Loughner’s MySpace page after the shooting incident. According to MSNBC, “The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious ‘Goodbye friends’ message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to ‘Please don’t be mad at me.’”

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ChaviztaKing's avatar

By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

Gifford’s Shooting Scene has MK ULTRA Profile

http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/az-congresswoman-assassination-scenario-has-mkultra-profile-drug-space-target?render=print#print


The mass political assassination attack in Tucson, AZ on Saturday January 8, 2011 that as of 2:44 pm pst had left six people dead and eighteen shot were shot during the attack has a marked MKULTRA profile, and of suppression of drug cartel investigation and of expansion the U.S. space program as one of its effects.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was reported in grave condition and in surgery at University Medical Center in Tucson, after the shooting in a Safeway supermarket parking lot.

One news report states,

“The suspect in the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and others, Jared Loughner, posted a You Tube video three weeks ago indicating that “in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!” as well as a MySpace post saying goodbye to friends.

“According to MSNBC, “Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22. Pima County Sheriff’s officials said he used a pistol to carry out the shooting spree. U.S. officials who provided his name to the AP spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release it publicly.”

“In a You Tube video attributed to Jared Lee Loughner, which was posted approximately about three weeks ago, Loughner states, in part:

“This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming: the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don’t dream – sadly.


“In conclusion, my ambition – is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming! Thank you!

“The MSNBC report also indicates that federal law enforcement officials were analyzing Loughner’s MySpace page after the shooting incident. According to MSNBC, “The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious ‘Goodbye friends’ message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to ‘Please don’t be mad at me.’”

You Tube Video Channel of alleged assassin

The You Tube video channel of the 21-year-old alleged assassin, Mark Lee Loughner contains 5 brief recent videos, each of which contains MKULTRA type mind control material on the video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

.

Report this
ChaviztaKing's avatar

By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 2:00 pm Link to this comment

Gifford’s Shooting Scene has MK ULTRA Profile

http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/az-congresswoman-assassination-scenario-has-mkultra-profile-drug-space-target?render=print#print


The mass political assassination attack in Tucson, AZ on Saturday January 8, 2011 that as of 2:44 pm pst had left six people dead and eighteen shot were shot during the attack has a marked MKULTRA profile, and of suppression of drug cartel investigation and of expansion the U.S. space program as one of its effects.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was reported in grave condition and in surgery at University Medical Center in Tucson, after the shooting in a Safeway supermarket parking lot.

One news report states,

“The suspect in the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and others, Jared Loughner, posted a You Tube video three weeks ago indicating that “in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!” as well as a MySpace post saying goodbye to friends.

“According to MSNBC, “Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22. Pima County Sheriff’s officials said he used a pistol to carry out the shooting spree. U.S. officials who provided his name to the AP spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release it publicly.”

“In a You Tube video attributed to Jared Lee Loughner, which was posted approximately about three weeks ago, Loughner states, in part:

“This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming: the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don’t dream – sadly.


“In conclusion, my ambition – is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming! Thank you!

“The MSNBC report also indicates that federal law enforcement officials were analyzing Loughner’s MySpace page after the shooting incident. According to MSNBC, “The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious ‘Goodbye friends’ message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to ‘Please don’t be mad at me.’”

You Tube Video Channel of alleged assassin

The You Tube video channel of the 21-year-old alleged assassin, Mark Lee Loughner contains 5 brief recent videos, each of which contains MKULTRA type mind control material on the video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

These videos, apparently made by Mark Lee Loughner (apparently AKA Jared Loughner) himself, include the following:

1.  Hello by Mark Lee Loughner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uRjwPWaxiY

2.  My Final Thoughts: Jared Loughner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4

3.  How to: Mind Controller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnNx0WThoF0

MKULTRA and political assassinations

The preliminary profile of Mark Lee Loughner indicates that he may be a person going through genuine programming under MKULTRA by mind control methods and programming by on-the-ground MKULTRA agents designed to disorient the individual mind and turn the individual into a ‘Manchurian candidate’ type assassin.

.

Report this
ChaviztaKing's avatar

By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 1:57 pm Link to this comment

Gifford’s Shooting Scene has MK ULTRA Profile

http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/az-congresswoman-assassination-scenario-has-mkultra-profile-drug-space-target?render=print#print


The mass political assassination attack in Tucson, AZ on Saturday January 8, 2011 that as of 2:44 pm pst had left six people dead and eighteen shot were shot during the attack has a marked MKULTRA profile, and of suppression of drug cartel investigation and of expansion the U.S. space program as one of its effects.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was reported in grave condition and in surgery at University Medical Center in Tucson, after the shooting in a Safeway supermarket parking lot.

One news report states,

“The suspect in the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and others, Jared Loughner, posted a You Tube video three weeks ago indicating that “in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!” as well as a MySpace post saying goodbye to friends.

“According to MSNBC, “Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Loughner, 22. Pima County Sheriff’s officials said he used a pistol to carry out the shooting spree. U.S. officials who provided his name to the AP spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release it publicly.”

“In a You Tube video attributed to Jared Lee Loughner, which was posted approximately about three weeks ago, Loughner states, in part:

“This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming: the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don’t dream – sadly.


“In conclusion, my ambition – is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming! Thank you!

“The MSNBC report also indicates that federal law enforcement officials were analyzing Loughner’s MySpace page after the shooting incident. According to MSNBC, “The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious ‘Goodbye friends’ message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to ‘Please don’t be mad at me.’”

You Tube Video Channel of alleged assassin

The You Tube video channel of the 21-year-old alleged assassin, Mark Lee Loughner contains 5 brief recent videos, each of which contains MKULTRA type mind control material on the video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

These videos, apparently made by Mark Lee Loughner (apparently AKA Jared Loughner) himself, include the following:

1.  Hello by Mark Lee Loughner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uRjwPWaxiY

2.  My Final Thoughts: Jared Loughner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4

3.  How to: Mind Controller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnNx0WThoF0

MKULTRA and political assassinations

The preliminary profile of Mark Lee Loughner indicates that he may be a person going through genuine programming under MKULTRA by mind control methods and programming by on-the-ground MKULTRA agents designed to disorient the individual mind and turn the individual into a ‘Manchurian candidate’ type assassin.

Report this

By reynolds, January 10, 2011 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

david cyr; thanks for the link. i read it and i will
read david mackay.
when new technology appears in the world, it is almost
always in the form of munitions. i believe your
projections are realistic; not with a whimper but a
bang.

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ChaviztaKing's avatar

By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

OK FOLKS, THIS IS REAL REAL WEIRD, I ASK THIS QUESTION: WHY IS GABRIELLE GIFFORD SUBSCRIBED TO THE PERSONAL YOUTUBE SITE OF JARED LAUGHNER (THE CRAZY SHOOTER)?  ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE ABOUT THIS CONFUSING CASE: WHY ARE ALL THE DESCRIPTIONS ON THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL OF JARED LOUGHNER WRITTEN IN PAST TENSE? THAT’S HARDCORE SPOOKY AND WEIRD, IF YOU MAKE A BLOGGER OR PAGE ABOUT YOUR TASTES AND PERSONAL ACTIVITIES YOU DON’T WRITE IN PAST-TENSE BUT IN REGULAR PRESENT

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1316755/pg1

It shows her being subscribed to the killer…notice the last login date….2 days ago. So she was subscribed before the shooting.

At the shot congresswoman’s YouTube, she has a subscription to her own shooters webpage. Why?

Gifford’s YouTube, subscriptions in bottom left corner:  http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2

And with that, why is this ONE YouTube page of the shooter still available, when everything else of him has been taken down? This, the shooters YouTube page, is also the one page that the MSN reference to endlessly.

Any ponders?

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By Lafayette, January 10, 2011 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

GO FIGURE

DJC: ... because it’s much more important to maintain industrial pollution profit margins, and provide pollution-swap profits to banksters

Ecology policy is a lot more complicated than that phrase suggests.

True enough, for the planet to survive, we need to get unhooked from the carbon molecule. But the obsolescence of numerous industries based upon it would occur not just in profits but in employment were any radical changes implemented.

And it is worsening of unemployment numbers that worries those in the spotlight.

Which is no excuse for not making changes—Mother Nature has just begun to show us her anger at the willful waste of her resources.

But Americans what do Americans generally think about the importance of ecology? From Pew Research:

To the question, “Is there solid evidence that the earth is warming:”

  * 57 percent answered ‘yes,’ compared to 71 percent in April 2008, a drop of 14 points;
  * 33 percent of respondents answered ‘no,’ up 9 points;
  * ‘don’t know’ rose from 8 percent to 10 percent.
  * Among those answering “yes,” 36 percent said warming was due to human activity, down from 47 percent.

Oddly enough, a 56% majority thinks the US should join international efforts to set standards to address climate change, while 32% think the US should set its own.

A similar majority (55%) say they have not heard about cap-and-trade measures taken up by both Houses of Congress this year, designed limit control carbon emissions.

So there seems some improvement in the national ecological conscience, but is it enough?

Go figure. I suspect it isn’t.

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By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

READ THE LATEST REFLECTIONS WRITTEN BY FIDEL CASTRO ABOUT THE TRAGIC EVENT OF TUCSON, ARIZONA

http://cubandemocracy.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/reflections-by-comrade-fidel-an-atrocious-act/

Sad news was broadcast this afternoon from the United States: Gabrielle Giffords, Democratic congresswoman for Arizona, was the victim of a criminal attempt while taking part at a political meeting at her electoral district in Tucson. On the other side of the border lies Mexico, the Latin American country to which that territory used to belong when, in an unjust war, more than one half of its area was seized from it.

Along its arid surface, many of those who emigrate from Mexico, Central America and other Latin American countries try to escape hunger, poverty and the underdevelopment to which those countries have been led by the United States. Money and goods can freely cross the border; human beings cannot. Without mentioning the drugs and weapons that cross that line in either direction.

Hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans who work in that country doing the toughest and worst paid jobs are captured each year and sent back to their points of departure, many times separated from their closest kin. They were hoping that the new administration would correct that criminal and inhuman policy.

According to just-arrived news, 18 people were shot and six died, among them a 9-year-old girl and Federal Judge John Roll.

The congresswoman was seriously wounded by a bullet in the head. Doctors were fighting to save her life.

She is married to NASA astronaut Mark Kelly. She was first elected to Congress in 2006 at the age of 36. “She is a supporter of migrant reform, stem cell research and alternative energy”, measures that are hated by the far right.

She was re-elected as the Democratic representative in the past elections.

When her father was asked whether she had any enemies, he replied: The entire Tea Party”.

It is known that the former US vice-presidential candidate in the 2008 elections and Tea Party leader, Sarah Palin, published on her website, as the aim for supporters of her party, a map of the congressional districts of 20 of the representatives who had backed President Obama’s proposed health reform bill and she had them marked with the viewfinder of a rifle.

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords’ political opponent was a former Marine who appeared in the electoral campaign with an M-16 in a message which apparently stated: “Help get rid of Gabrielle Giffords…shoot the entire ammo chamber of an M-16 with Jesse Kelly.”

In March 2010, Gabrielle’s district office was attacked. She stated that when people do that they were going to have to be aware of the consequences; political leaders should get together and set limits.

Any sensible person could well wonder whether such an act happened in Afghanistan or in an electoral district in Arizona.

Obama stated: “…an unspeakable tragedy, a number of Americans were shot…”

“And while we are continuing to receive information, we know that some have passed away, and that Representative Giffords is gravely wounded…”.

“We do not yet have all the answers. What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society….”

“ I ask all Americans to join me and Michelle in keeping Representative Giffords, the victims of this tragedy, and their families in our prayers.”

His appeal is quite dramatic and very sad. Even those of us who don’t share his political or philosophical ideas in the least sincerely hope that no children, judges, congressmen or any US citizen should die in such an absurd and unjustifiable way.

We would like Obama and the United States Congress to share those concerns with all the other peoples.

Fidel Castro Ruz

January 8, 2011

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By David J. Cyr, January 10, 2011 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

QUOTE (reynolds):

“not to belabor the point, but the risk in suggesting the mayhem in tucson was minor relative to the “continuum of ruthless exploitation, mass mugging, maiming, and murderous mayhem” (a lilting alliteration considering the subject) is an implicit concession to stalin’s math.”
____________

I made an observation of an objective reality.

The concession to Stalin’s math is the liberal/conservative über majority’s will, not mine.

While a domestic war is being waged over uncivil words, with hysterically mandated politeness being offered as The Solution for The Problem, the corporate (R) & (D) party persists in resolutely ignoring climate change… because it’s much more important to maintain industrial pollution profit margins, and provide pollution-swap profits to banksters.

Consider how very high the “statistic” numbers will be in the “new math” being currently Pentagon calculated, to service the Final Solution that will eventually be the only solution the global corporate state will determine acceptable… a 2nd Genesis, through “creative” destruction.

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By David J. Cyr, January 10, 2011 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

QUOTE (reynolds):

“not to belabor the point, but the risk in suggesting the mayhem in tucson was minor relative to the “continuum of ruthless exploitation, mass mugging, maiming, and murderous mayhem” (a lilting alliteration considering the subject) is an implicit concession to stalin’s math.”
____________

I made an observation of an objective reality.

The concession to Stalin’s math is the liberal/conservative über majority’s will, not mine.

While a domestic war is being waged over uncivil words, with hysterically mandated politeness being offered as The Solution for The Problem, the corporate (R) & (D) party persists in resolutely ignoring climate change… because it’s much more important to maintain industrial pollution profit margins, and provide pollution-swap profits to banksters.

Consider how very high the “statistic” numbers will be in the “new math” being currently Pentagon calculated, to service the Final Solution that will eventually be the only solution the global corporate state will determine acceptable… “creative” destruction.

If you have a few minutes to spare, read this:
http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=490&Itemid=1

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By Lafayette, January 10, 2011 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

COMPLACENCE

Why is there so little outrage on this thread that a first-rate nutter was able to get his hands on a machine-pistol?

Because, for Arizona, this aint nuthin’ strange? But the death of a little girl and that of a Federal judge or near-death of a Congresswoman is a bit odd (and therefore newsworthy)?

Is this the sort of complacence to which America has come? That of onlookers thinking to themselves, “Wow! Glad I wasn’t there!” 

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend’s were.
Each man’s death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

John Donne

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By garth, January 10, 2011 at 10:20 am Link to this comment

Whistle me up a memory.
Whistle back where I want to be.
Whistle a tune that will carry me to Tucson Territory.
If you’re fast and you’ve run afoul of the law,
It’s a handy place to be.
‘Cause your future’s just as good as your draw
In Tucson Territory.”

I can see it all now thanks to the intrepid reporting.

Jared put on his sweatshirt with a hoodie and his blue jeans, stuffed a Glock 9 in one pocket and a few magazines of ammo in another and called a cab to take hime from his parent’s house to the Safeway Mall across town.

After getting to his destination, he got out of the cab and walked over to the Congressional Street meeting and opened up.

Meanwhile, back at the cab, the driver decided to do a little shopping his own self and was photographed walking through the aisles of the market.  (Probably in search of a jumbo box of Milk Duds.  After all, they’re mighty good.)

According to a police description, police cars arrived on the scene within minutes, cordoned of the parking lot, and didn’t let any vehicles leave.

Yet, no cab was there.  This cab driver is not only an innocent person, he’s a downright magician. 

Everyone’s up on their soapboxes now decrying the evil of Free Speech.  There oughtta be a law!

Let’s dig a little more into this cab driver.  Let’s investigate the whole macabre event.  Or is that too much to ask?

If our free speech rights are going to be curtailed don’t you think it’s worth looking into the event that might turn out to be the straw that broke the camels back.

Isn’t that the way they say it goes
But let’s forget all that
And give me the number if you can find it
So I can call just to tell them I’m fine and to show
I’ve overcome the blow
I’ve learned to take it well
I only wish my words could just convince myself
But that’s not the way it feels

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By reynolds, January 10, 2011 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

golem; was i injured? your capacity to overlook what
i wrote, and much of what you write, seems infinite.
your callous disregard, your contempt for the
innocent dead here rather puts the lie to your
purported, sidelong, seemingly rote appreciation for
life elsewhere- to which you merely allude. you say
it happens, and horrifically, but not that you very
much give a damn.
i am long since inured to the heartlessness of most
people. their willful ignorance is still an
accommodation too far. think as you please, if think
is the verb.

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By Lafayette, January 10, 2011 at 8:42 am Link to this comment

ardee: Is that before or after the 40% in taxes she pays?

After ... unless someone has devised an ingenious way of purchasing property, stocks and bonds with income that has not been taxed.

Mind you, such would be no problem whatsoever for a Drug Trafficker. But, how many of that ilk make it into the national accounts upon which the research was based? Would they really distort the results? I doubt it.

Moreover, let’s presume that a great deal of wealth is obtained either from hallucinatory management compensation packages or from finance-market manipulations, for which the effective imposition is 15 to 23% (as it is presently for management stock-options, hedge-funds or even just year-end bonuses or rentier-interest). Those rates leave plenty in the pocket.

It is sickening to think that we have a chronic deficit (that middle-class Jack ‘n Jill America must pay by means of their tax dollars) because our marginal taxe rates at the upper-level are too low.

And the Replicants (who rage over “outlandish government expenditure that worsen the debt”) blithely forget the very low tax rates of which upper-income individuals already benefit? How convenient is that memory lapse ...

And who are these rich people? Some of them are favorites of ours: Michael Jackson (whilst alive), Madonna, Angelina & Brad, the Williams sisters ... etc., etc., etc. - ad nauseam.

Not to mention Buffet and Gates who have started the Gates-Buffett Giving Pledge—a list of billionaires who have so much they think the weight of their lucre might prevent passage through the pearly gates?

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By Lafayette, January 10, 2011 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

JUST FOR THE RECORD

ardee: Actually I believe that, if you check, it is 37% of the wealth controlled by 1% of the people.

[Yes, this post is not germane to the thread’s subject.]

I am not particularly sticky about “real facts”, but they do have a certain importance in good debate.

The correct figure is 35% (34.6, to be exact) ... but more importantly the top 20% of households garner about 50% of America’s Total Net Worth (that has been generated by the American economy).

Our labor-input creates wealth in the form of Net Worth. Some definitions from the site linked below:

Generally speaking, wealth is the value of everything a person or family owns, minus any debts. However, for purposes of studying the wealth distribution, economists define wealth in terms of marketable assets, such as real estate, stocks, and bonds.


So please remember this: Every day when you get out of bed, have breakfast and make off to work—you are obtaining a pittance for your labor input if you are not a member of a highly select privileged class of household.

Every half dollar of the wealth created by your labor is going to a 20% minority of Americans. The other half-dollar of wealth created by your work is being shared by 80% of the population.

Which is paralleled by the highest individual Income Unfairness index of the developed Western World.

And the Republican’s want to introduce a Flat-Tax? Income Fairness, already the worst in the developed world, will worsen further. (Only Brazil, China and Mexico have higher Income Unfairness Indexes. Nice company for Uncle Sam, isn’t it ...)

The Solution: For more income fairness, taxes must be raised on upper incomes, not lowered. That Tax Revenue must then be spent on (1) Reducing the national debt and (2) Public Services (like a Public Health Option and pretty-damn-cheap primary-to-tertiary level education for everyone) in order to obtain a semblance of Social Justice in our country.

——————————————-

NB: The above Net Worth percentage information comes from here - and any professional economist who wishes to challenge the studies that constitute the base findings is invited to do so. (I have made such an invitation on many a discussion-forum and am still waiting for any takers.)

The population information comes from the Census Bureau.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 10, 2011 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

Diamond:
I’ll try to be nice explaining what should be obvious:
1a) His postings on the Web are now evidence. 
1b) While they may show up in other places they are somewhat less available to contaminate a jury pool before-hand.  Potential jurors who have read the postings (like me) would reasonably be disqualified.
1c) With the 88 gazillion hackers out there this will be a prime target 2 types:
1c.1) Those that want to just fuck up the government’s evidence.
1c.2) Those that want YOUR click on these to be a Trojan Horse into YOUR computer.
2a) MySpace sees major traffic to this one single poster to be a HUGE bottleneck of epic proportions, that can stress their system.
2b) MySpace doesn’t want this to be a magnet for copy-cats and is covering its ass.

Now that’s SIX good, solid reasons to take down his MySpace account, none of which involve one of those deep, dark “conspiracies” you are so addicted to and convinced control every major event in our lives.

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By ardee, January 10, 2011 at 6:49 am Link to this comment

Fat Freddy, January 10 at 11:37 am

I wonder if you object to paying taxes or to the use to which they are put? In some nations taxes are much. much higher than ours, loopholes are few as well. That the extremely wealthy pay a pittance, and those with consciences, like Warren Buffet, confess to this seems always absent from your rants against government.

Some nations provide universal health care, free education including graduate degrees,free public transportation for all that tax money. We provide opportunity for unscrupulous government contractors to over bill, we provide wars that murder innocents in droves. Thus I wonder what it is that you object to repetitively and endlessly.

I am of the opinion that taxes are a necessity. We are all aware that they pay for fire depts., police services, road repairs, schools and a myriad of important items. I am also of the opinion that all Americans should pay equally, that loopholes should be closed, that our tax moneys should be spent with much more oversight and on items more in line with the wishes of the general public.

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By Fat Freddy, January 10, 2011 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Lafayette


Every half dollar of the wealth created by your labor is going to a 20% minority of Americans.

Is that before or after the 40% in taxes she pays?

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By Fat Freddy, January 10, 2011 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

diamond,

This case has never come to trial, has it, so how do you know the ‘truth’ about Major Hasan?

Exactly. So, has Loughner been placed on trial yet? Follow your own logic, not your emotions. How do we know the ‘truth’ about HasanLoughner?

Hasan was not good with guns, he was a psychiatrist who helped soldiers with post traumatic stress disorder so he was a man of non-violence involved in a healing profession.

And what does that have to do with anything? The BTK killer was a Cub Scout Troop leader.

And just so it’s perfectly clear I do blame Sarah Palin and her ‘lock and load’ rhetoric for this shooting and Fox News is an abomination and SHOULD BE BLAMED for every lousy thing they and Rupert ‘the Nazi’ Murdoch have ever done, including foisting a retard like Palin on the voting public.

Take the next ‘logical’ step in your argument, why don’t you? Go ahead, say it. I haven’t quoted Justice William O. Douglas, or Chicago v. Terminello in a while. I think you hate the Constitution more than you hate Palin and Fox News. It’s OK though, the Constitution doesn’t really mean anything, anyway. The 4th Amendment is dead. The 5th and 6th are on life support, and the 1st is in need of serious medical attention. What other parts of the Constitution would you like to wipe your ass with? You are no better than Tipper Gore when she tried to ban rock lyrics.

And if it was a gun free zone how did the guns get in there?

Clinton made it illegal for soldiers to carry loaded weapons on military bases. Also, in Florida, School Board meetings, among other functions, have been declared “gun-free-zones”, so how did that guy that shot up the School Board meeting a few weeks ago get a gun in there? I guess nobody told him it was a gun-free-zone.

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By Lafayette, January 10, 2011 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

JUST FOR THE RECORD

ardee: Actually I believe that, if you check, it is 37% of the wealth controlled by 1% of the people.

[Yes, this post is not germane to the thread’s subject.]

I am not particularly sticky about “real facts”, but they do have a certain importance in good debate.

The correct figure is 35% (34.6, to be exact) ... but more importantly the top 20% of households garner about 50% of America’s Total Net Worth (that has been generated by the American economy).

Our labor-input creates wealth in the form of Net Worth. Some definitions from the site linked below:

Generally speaking, wealth is the value of everything a person or family owns, minus any debts. However, for purposes of studying the wealth distribution, economists define wealth in terms of marketable assets, such as real estate, stocks, and bonds.


So please remember this: Every day when you get out of bed, have breakfast and make off to work—you are obtaining a pittance for your labor input if you are not a member of a highly select privileged class of household.

Every half dollar of the wealth created by your labor is going to a 20% minority of Americans. The other half-dollar of wealth created by your work is being shared by 80% of the population.

Which is paralleled by the highest individual Income Unfairness index of the developed Western World.

And the Republican’s want to introduce a Flat-Tax? Income Fairness, already the worst in the developed world, will worsen further. (Only Brazil, China and Mexico have higher Income Unfairness Indexes. Nice company for Uncle Sam, isn’t it ...)

The Solution: For more income fairness, taxes must be raised on upper incomes, not lowered. That Tax Revenue must then be spent on (1) Reducing the national debt and (2) Public Services (like a Public Health Option and pretty-damn-cheap primary-to-tertiary level education for everyone) in order to obtain a semblance of Social Justice in our country. Which will take at least two decades to happen.

——————————————-

NB: The above Net Worth percentage information comes from here - and any professional economist who wishes to challenge the studies that constitute the base findings is invited to do so. (I have made such an invitation on many a discussion-forum and am still waiting for any takers.)

The population information comes from the Census Bureau.

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By reynolds, January 10, 2011 at 3:55 am Link to this comment

david; i would not presume to correct you, not least
because we are in agreement. the printed word does
not always convey the author’s precise sentiments.
your unyielding style rarely fails you but i am less
confident in my approach [a habit derived of having
survived more than a few degrees of violence (i
lived for many years on the mexican border of
arizona)]. i might have used the word ‘accept’ or
‘countenance’ rather than ‘sanction’.
not to belabor the point, but the risk in suggesting
the mayhem in tucson was minor relative to the
“continuum of ruthless exploitation, mass mugging,
maiming, and murderous mayhem” (a lilting
alliteration considering the subject) is an implicit
concession to stalin’s math.
as you said, no death is minor to the dying nor, i
might add, to this hapless bystander. someone said;
‘evil is a form of incompetence’, the incompetent,
or uninspired, tending to rely on a handy if brutal
expedient. whither are we drifting?

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By ChaviztaKing, January 10, 2011 at 2:24 am Link to this comment

“Americans will likely die on american soil possibly in large numbers.” -Gary Hart, Before the 9-11 Inside Job False-Flag


.

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By diamond, January 10, 2011 at 1:29 am Link to this comment

“(yes, I did read his YT entries and the Myspace entry captured before it was taken down).”

But why were they taken down? Why is Big Brother forever clamping his sweaty hand over the mouth of the internet? Why can the public not know what this guy had to say and make their own judgement? It’s the same as the bulls eye over the district being removed so that Sarah Palin doesn’t look as crazed as she actually is. Damage control and a little mopping up operation in action. The aftermath of this bloodbath is (as usual) almost as sickening as the bloodbath itself.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 10, 2011 at 1:07 am Link to this comment

It’s getting tiresome seeing the same crack-pots assuming EVERYTHING that happens in the world (that’s bad) can only occur if it’s a Mossad and/or CIA false-flag operation.

This is just libelous bullshit by people just as crazy and irrational as Loughner, until the second he started shooting (at which point he became officially crazier).  His nonsense on economics and BCE vs ACE sounds no different to me than the wacko conspiracy fantasies aired here daily.  Same church, different pew.

(yes, I did read his YT entries and the Myspace entry captured before it was taken down)

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By David J. Cyr, January 10, 2011 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

QUOTE (reynolds):

“david cyr;  your characterization of this incident as ‘relatively minor’ implies a tolerance, or sanction of certain violence which distinction strikes me as incongruous with your otherwise indisputable point. having survived a .44 caliber melee in the offices of my former employer, i promise you no incident of violent, random death is minor.”
____________

A person who is aware of and understands relative degrees of violence doesn’t necessarily “sanction” any degree.

No death, by any means, is ever minor to the person dying.

That’s one reason why I used the word “relatively” as a qualifier for that “minor” characterization.

The other reason is that Saturday’s incident in Arizonia was minor, relative to the continuum of ruthless exploitation, mass mugging, maiming, and murderous mayhem that liberals and conservatives unitedly continually support, whenever they vote for their Democrats and Republicans.

America’s primary exports are weapons and state-sponsored terror. Anyone who volunteers to deliver some of that terror to The Other elsewhere instantly becomes an American hero. None should be shocked whenever this nation, which is so wholly dependent upon all its “normal” people callously, casually and ever consistently supporting the sociopathic policies of the sociopathic corporate (R) & (D) party, occasionally suffers a little blowback.

The only surprise should be in how relatively seldom, and small that blowback has been… so far.

Stalin is alleged to have said, “The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.”

Most Americans obviously agree with Stalin.

“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
— Hannah Arendt

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By ChaviztaKing, January 9, 2011 at 10:48 pm Link to this comment

THE MORE I ANALYZE WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY, THE MORE I TRUELY BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS AN INSIDE JOB, FALSE FLAG BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE WONDERFUL US GOVERNMENT THAT KILLED BOBBY KENNEDY, JFK, JFK JR. THAT DID 9-11, KILLED MARTIN LUTHER KING, MALCOM X.  INSIDE JOB, FALSE-FLAG AND ALL THE DEVILISH TRICKS ARE AS AMERICAN AS APPLE LIES

http://whatreallyhappened.com/content/giffords-brain-benefits-benign-route-bullet#comments

So, Giffords was shot from behind. If she was running away, then she was not the first target. If she had been the intended target, wouldn’t Jared have approached her from the front, if for no other reason than to make sure he had the right woman in his sights? Or to let her know who the agent of her impending death was?

Was someone else shot before Giffords? Like the judge? And if so, is this the reason that the video we presume was being made of her public appearance not been made public?

This makes sense and would mean they knew Roll planned to be there, in spite of what the sheriff said. The back of the head shot to Giffords reminds one of how Bobby Kennedy was shot—by his own bodyguard behind him while Sirhan Sirhan was shooting blanks in front for showy effect. It appears that they might have wanted both shot and killed. Very effective

http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/comment-page-1/

KGB think the Judge was the actual target.

If the sheriff is telling the truth about the scenario,which I doubt since the Feds are in control and this is a set-up to be covered up; the sheriff said the Judge being there was not planned. Judge Roll went on the spur of the moment to say hi after leaving Mass, says the sheriff. If Giffords was shot in the back of the head couldn’t that mean that the real shooter was behind her, not in front of her? The officials would know that, if so. But the patsy has been chosen. The current news is that the sheriff is saying now it was just one shooter. Columbine agenda again—the sheriff is bought out/and or threatened to keep quiet. Seems to work every time.


.

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By gerard, January 9, 2011 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

Every time I look at that sweet, kind, intelligent face I just want to cry for our stupid country!  What a dirty shame!

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By diamond, January 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

Fat Freddy, anyone who thinks this is about pot has had access to one too many bongs.

‘I’d be willing to bet that the people wanting to blame Fox News, and Sarah Palin, are the same ones that said we shouldn’t call Hasan a Muslim terrorist.’

This case has never come to trial, has it, so how do you know the ‘truth’ about Major Hasan? And if it was a gun free zone how did the guns get in there? And who were the two men with Hasan who were arrested and then released? Hasan was not good with guns, he was a psychiatrist who helped soldiers with post traumatic stress disorder so he was a man of non-violence involved in a healing profession. Why would he kill the very soldiers he had based his career on treating? How is it possible that such a person burst in firing two handed (as he would have had to)like Buffalo Bill and killed or wounded 35 people? Why did they originally say a woman shot Hasan and then change that story twice? The whole story stinks to high heaven.

And just so it’s perfectly clear I do blame Sarah Palin and her ‘lock and load’ rhetoric for this shooting and Fox News is an abomination and SHOULD BE BLAMED for every lousy thing they and Rupert ‘the Nazi’ Murdoch have ever done, including foisting a retard like Palin on the voting public.

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By infinityzero, January 9, 2011 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It is the diversity of both citizen and belief that truly make the USA a unique nation.  However, it is the selection of words one chooses to utter that can quite literally mean the difference between life and death.  Yes we have right to freedom of speech under most circumstances.  However, there is a certain amount of responsibility implied for everyone who works in media to understand that they have a very powerful position and should therefore be responsible with that power.  If not, they should lose their job or at least not have as frequent of access to the media (i.e. pundits that are not accredited journalists).  Likewise, if a candidate suggests that murder and violence against political opponents may be justified, they should no longer be able to run for public office.

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By Litl Bludot, January 9, 2011 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

So, it’s open season on “liberals”.  Or, let’s see, anyone who doesn’t believe in
what the tea party dictates.  But of course, cross hairs don’t signify targeting for
killing, really.  Or “take out” doesn’t in any way mean “kill”. 

No corporate media is going to allow a discussion of the obvious, not here. The
nearest to an honest news report is from the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-
rightwing-rhetoric

I wonder what would happen to a US muslim who suggested that a US politician
should be taken out?  I wonder what would happen if a muslim website had
crosshairs on congressional districts?

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By Fat Freddy, January 9, 2011 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

We need tougher marijuana laws.

After the Tucson shooting, there may be renewed pressure to control the weapons that committed the crime. But what about the drugs that may have aggravated the killer’s mental disease? The trend these days seems toward a more casual attitude and easier access to those drugs. Among the things we should be discussing in the aftermath of this horror is the accumulating evidence of those drugs’ potential contribution to making some dangerous people even more dangerous than they might otherwise have been.

I still think it was endless hours of playing Grand Theft Auto III that made him do it.

[/sarcasm]

The ignorance on both sides is mind numbing.

http://www.frumforum.com/did-pot-trigger-giffords-shooting

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By diamond, January 9, 2011 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

“I remember at an Iraq anti war rally I
asked all these ‘liberals’ why they were so silent when Clinton was bombing
civilians in serbia just a few years before? Or the sanctions against iraq under
Clinton…how many died as a result?”

Yes, the sanctions were a disgrace but they were endorsed by the UN. The invasion of Iraq was illegal and was not endorsed by anyone but the Bush administration and its ‘Coalition of the Shilling’. As for what happened in Kosovo and elsewhere: the situation was a humanitarian disaster with refugees fleeing in droves and being turned away at the borders of other countries. There were rape camps, Sarajevo was under siege, children were being blown up in the streets, 7,000 Muslim men were massacred at Srebrenica - explain to me how this in any way resembles Iraq? Nothing like this was occurring in Iraq, there was no emergency except the one created deliberately by the United States via the sanctions.

You should also remember that the United States put Saddam Hussein in power and armed and funded him for years. They sold him anthrax, the British sold him mustard gas which he later used to massacre the Kurds. I have a book with a photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein after selling him yet more weapons of mass destruction on the cover. The Iraq situation was entirely a creation of the United States and the invasion was done on a tissue of lies to get the oil and to create a puppet Muslim state (meant to be the first of many), as we now know. None of this applies to Kosovo or Serbia in general. America never invaded, if you recall, though they bombed the shit out of Belgrade (and not before time either) after far too many civilians had died, but at least they did it. Even Bush’s father had the sense not to invade Iraq. The thing is Clinton was a Rhodes scholar who went to Oxford and Bush got a ‘gentleman’s C’ that his father paid for. It does matter if a politician has brains - just look at Sarah Palin and think about her being anywhere near the nuclear button and be afraid, be very afraid.

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By Fat Freddy, January 9, 2011 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

Sorry, here’s the link.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/09/the-shame-and-hypocrisy-of-cnn/

It was wrong to immediately associate Hasan with radical Muslim extremists, and it is wrong to associate Loughner with the Tea Parties. They are both nucking futs, and both suffer from severe mental illness. Would it make you people better if it was his neighbor’s dog that told him to kill those people*? Perhaps you would say the dog was under the influence of the hateful rhetoric of Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.

*reference to Son of Sam.

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By Fat Freddy, January 9, 2011 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

Yesterday’s horrific and senseless shooting of more than a dozen people in Tucson, including Representative Gabrielle Giffords, provided a look into the biases of much of the American media — and it was not just an ugly sight, but a shamefully hypocritical peek as well, as Byron York points out.  In the last public mass-murder shooting fourteen months ago at Fort Hood, the media spent the first few hours scolding anyone who suggested that it might be an act of terror or that Major Nidal Hasan’s religious beliefs might be relevant before every last fact was exposed:

I’d be willing to bet that the people wanting to blame Fox News, and Sarah Palin, are the same ones that said we shouldn’t call Hasan a Muslim terrorist.

I also believe that Ft Hood was a “gun-free zone”, where soldiers were not allowed to carry loaded firearms.

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By garth, January 9, 2011 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

When they announced that the FBI was taking over the investigation, I said, here comes the coverup.

Just to get few things straight.  Jared Lee Loughner dropped out of high school and was enrolled in Pima Community College?  Was he in a GED program? 

About the mysterious second man in his 40s or 50s shown in the photograph.  I can tell you now that he’ll either never be found or they’ll come up with a cockamamie story of who he is.

As far as Jared is concerned, he can kiss his ass good-bye.  BTW:  Why do they always use the middle names of assassins?  Does that make it more official and conjure up images?

The schtick on his Facebook page could’ve been placed there overnight or in advance of the attack by a third party.

Jared Lee Loughner might be a sorry ass, but the handlers of Obama were saying that he needs something to connect with the people.  Well, there it is, thanks to Jared Lee Loughner.

There’s is no bottom to these people.

Jared liked Karl Marx.  They said so on tv.  He also liked Mein Kampf, so it says on his facebook page.

Again, what was he doing at Pima CC without graduating high school?  And what was he doing hanging around with some middle aged man?

What does a glock 9 cost with an automatic clip attachment?  Was Jared working?  Doesn’t sound like it.  So, where he get the money to buy the gun?  Christmas gift?

Robert Mueller will tell us after the investigation just what the coverup story is.  Till then we’ll have to wait.  Unless someone who really knew him goes viral.

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By REDHORSE, January 9, 2011 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

There is no question that Rove, the Right and what we at TRUTHDIG call the MSM have exploited and used class/racial hatred, fear, ignorance and religious superstition at every opportunity, often with outright lies, to obfuscate reason and prevent rational political discourse. The Koch funded Tea Party “shout downs” of National Town Hall meetings was the first introduction of violence and open disrespect for the rules of political debate. They represent the first introduction of openly armed citizens into the public discourse.

    Rove/MSM, the “gold sacks” Clintonistas, the Bushites and Corporate/International/Financial Black Market crime has, with the help of a corrupt Right Wing Supreme Court, used its wealth, often stolen directly from the American Taxpayer, to openly loot and destroy the American economy and is now in the process of dismantling its social infrastructure. Obama and the Democrats are open conspirators in this effort. We are a Nation without moral or political leadership.

    The Arizona shooting reflects the ongoing disintegration and corruption of American political/social and financial systems and is the first echo of coming chaos. Exploitation of this event by the corrupt Right to further silence Speech, Open Assembly and Liberty to prevent any attempt at progressive change is inevitable. I suggest that the irrational nature of this tragic reality reveals the open wound inflicted upon the American psyche by the avaricious greed of the rich and the willing capitulation of the American Presidency, the House of Representatives and the Senate.

    The emotional high drama attached to this event will be exploited then swept under the rug by the business-as-usual Boehner thugs and serve journalists in production of “red meat” articles for intellectual hydrophobes. The American People will shiver in terror at the coming cold and there will be calls for unity and change. The outcome is anyones guess.

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By Leefeller, January 9, 2011 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

Lock and load Palin had her cross hairs on Arizona for some reason, maybe it had something to do with McCain?  Palin appeals to those folksy AK47 toting folks who like to intimidate anyone who does not agree with their deluded way of unthinking.

As for the N word, I realize who Reynolds was eluding too now!

Nice to see GRYM stand up and support his ignorance with conviction and his continued degree of Neanderthal mental infestations defending the offensiveness of the recent act with accusations, to place the blame like a 5 year old, what a twit with a capital T!

When one steps back and attempts to see the problem, the obvious appears instantly, and it is coming from the right my man!

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By Gulam, January 9, 2011 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment

Reynolds, just because you were injured in an incident does not mean every
incident should be blown all out of proportion just because it involved an
American female politician. She got shot, the judge got killed, but is her wounding
that most often has made the headlines. The American congress votes for these
on-going atrocities, so becoming a target when you belong to a despicable and
corrupt gang of killers comes with the territory. Dozens of completely innocent
women and children are killed by American-made munitions in several different
places in the world, and the American capacity to overlook all of that is infinite.

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By ardee, January 9, 2011 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

The attitude of the wealthy Republican Right: To consolidate 25% of the nations
wealth under 1% of the people is more than worth it – it’s a small price to pay.
To strip Americans of meaningful political action – it’s a great return on
investment.

Actually I believe that, if you check, it is 37% of the wealth controlled by 1% of the people.

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By rend, January 9, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lafayette: wow,, greatness must be depressing, the “greatest country on the planet” has a
higher percentage of gun related suicide than murder.

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By reynolds, January 9, 2011 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment

david cyr; 
your characterization of this incident as “relatively
minor” implies a tolerance, or sanction of certain
violence which distinction strikes me as incongruous
with your otherwise indisputable point.
having survived a .44 caliber melee in the offices of
my former employer, i promise you no incident of
violent, random death is minor.

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By Gulam, January 9, 2011 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

Yes, David J., good point:

“His violence shocks ‘good’ Americans because it was aimed at government,
rather than aimed by government.”

What happened in Tucson is the kind of thing that happens now several times a
week in Iraq and Afghanistan. Compare the hysteria over this incident with the
indifference with which Americans day in and day out ignore horrific incidents
in the many poor countries they dominate. As the US economy slowly crashes
and the red necks come out to play, many in the rest of the world are watching
with considerable satisfaction as America descends into into a well-deserved
chaos.

The remarkable thing is that America is so peaceful still and that in a land of
300 million people there are as few horrible incidents as there are. What is even
more remarkable is that a nation that has destroyed the lives of hundreds of
millions of people in Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and Central Asia has
suffered so little. If there really were terrorists intent on killing large numbers
of Americans, it is difficult to believe that they would be so totally in competent
as to do so little damage during the last ten years. I cannot believe that
Homeland Security could stop such things were there really many committed
people working to punish the USA. American sports crowds are enormous, ill-
protected, vulnerable targets, yet there have been astonishingly few attacks on
Americans at home or abroad, compared with the possible. This is because the
Americans are the violent ones in this world; just look at their statistics on
crime and incarceration, and their use of torture as an official policy.

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By Lafayette, January 9, 2011 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

American Gun Mobby:

Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.

Yeah right—now go explain that lie to John Roll’s wife, children and grandchildren.

See Total Fire-arm Related Deaths, by country, here.

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By the worm, January 9, 2011 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

Violence and the threat of violence gained legitimacy through the Tea Party’s
gun toting appearances at the Town Halls throughout the nation in 2009 to
stop any national ‘debate’ on health care reform. It worked. Abetted by Max
Baucus’ refusal to let any proponents of single payer speak, violence, threats of
violence and silencing the opposition became acceptable political techniques.

The approach spread:

“Don’t retreat, reload!”  - Sarah Palin, former Governor of Alaska

“If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward
those Second Amendment remedies.”  - Sharron Angle, former member of the
Nevada State Assembly

“If ballots don’t work, bullets will.”  - Joyce Kaufman, Radio host, Tea Party
activist

“Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people
do that, they’ve gotta realize there are consequences to that action.” 

- Currently serving Congresswoman from Arizona Gabrielle Giffords

But, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck had nothing to do with, I bet.

But here’s something to think about:

The Republicans long ago decided on this approach and they have stuck with it.
It would pay in the long run, they believed, and so, they have not varied.

The approach - Change the culture and it will be easy to change the laws.

This in contrast to what they believed to be the Democratic approach - Change
the laws to facilitate change in the culture (e.g. voting rights act, etc).

So, determined and with lots and lots of money, the Republicans began:
Capturing a network (Fox); capturing talk radio; building an extensive network
of ‘psuedo-think tanks’ to serve up ready made quotations; Steve Forbes, et al,
seeding a further-right group (the Tea Party) and calling it ‘grass roots’.

And, so, the Republicans (specifically the most wealthy among them) have built
their political success on their financial “successes” and their financial
“successes” on tax subsidies and bailouts and watched their effort to ‘change
the culture make it easy to change the laws’ – no worker representation, no
environmental restrictions, etc, elaborate bailouts of corporations, transforming
private loses to public debt, etc.

But, here’s the core hypocrisy: Whenever things like this happen, the
Republicans claim to have had nothing to do with it.

Oh? Nothing to do with violent acts that arise from fear, ignorance, violent
rhetoric? Hmmm.  I doubt it. Me thinks they do protest too much.

The Republicans know full well what they’ve done. Their attitude: To
consolidate 25% of the nations wealth under 1% of the people is more than
worth it – it’s a small price to pay. To strip Americans of meaningful political
action – it’s a great return on investment.

Control the ‘facts’, mandate the story line and frame the public discourse. Limit
the opposition. Control the culture. Then, pass the laws you want. Make it all
‘legal’. The approach takes time – three decades – but it is so worth. Look the
$10-$15 trillion Wall Street and the financial markets were able to wrench from
the taxpayers in the last three years. Yep, it’s worth it, and the fall of a few
matters little, “collateral damage”.

It’s a bit hypocritical to spend hundreds of millions shaping the culture - right
wing bombast, violent rhetoric, non-sensical ‘independent’ views, etc - then,
when violence springs from the culture to say “We had nothing to do with it”.

As hypocritical perhaps as talking about capitalism and free markets, then
extracting trillions in tax payer wealth to cover your bad bets.

It’s kind of all of a piece, isnt it?

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By ChaviztaKing, January 9, 2011 at 2:44 pm Link to this comment

HI FOLKS, THIS POST IS ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGY AND BEHAVIOUR PATTERNS OF MOST PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE ULTRA-INDIVIDUALIST AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE WHICH PRODUCES SOCIAL-PHOBIA, SHYNESS AND HATRED TOWARD OTHER PEOPLE.

I just wanted to point something about the behaviour of people who live in the belly of the capitalist-imperialist beast (USA).  I just wanted to talk about the hatred that people have in the USA toward each other.  Most people in USA are not very friendly, and around where i live people in christmas didn’t even say hi to each other, most americans are full of deep rooted envies, jelousy, treason and satanic passions.  Remember that american brand of capitalism stimulates trashing and destroying others, the world, and life in America is a real depressive one, that requires lots of anti-depressants, legal and illegal drugs in order to feel good, its a dog eat dog world. 

So don’t be surprised and alarmed by the bashing, trashing and insults against you coming from far-right wing americans. You have to realize that the USA has around 300 million people and about 280 millions are ultra-right wingers.  Hating is as normal as apple pie in USA.  In fact many people in the USA buy these super-big pick up trucks so that they can bully and instill fear on other drivers who drive smaller cars.  This is the degree of violence, hatred in America.  Many americans even fight against each other in parking lots of many shopping centers. Many people fight for little irrelevant issues such as that.  The USA is doomed and full of barbarism and hatred. 

I don’t know if this anti-social anti-people behaviour of most americans is caused by the architecture, urban planning and the way the economic, political and social system of whole USA is built.

But another trait of this anti-people narcissist behaviour of people is how they walk into grocery stores, supermarkets and Wal Marts while talking on cell phone.

I am telling you, the degree of lack of social ethics, social skills, and good courtesy manners is real high in America.  Millions behave like barbarians who are not used to live among people wbut around monkeys and apes, like Tarzan.

And there is no solution for USA because americans love far-right wing capitalist ideology, a proof of that is how The Republican Party won the Congress elections. It is because americans love the fascistic way of life of destroying, killing and hating others.

You guys gotta realize that humans are social-animals, and we need friends in order for our main endorphinos brain chemicals that are required for us to feel well balanced (serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline).  But since it’s real hard to find friends and social contact in America what I do is that I exercise twice a day to keep brain chemicals high and motivated. Otherwise I would feel real lonely, and even depressed.

I know i am being harsh in judging the whole America society, it is harsh, sad but true the way people behave in this country


.

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By Peetawonkus, January 9, 2011 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

It has been less than a year since Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer made her state one of three in the nation to allow citizens to possess concealed weapons without a permit for those over the age of 21.

The shooter was 22.

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By MeHere, January 9, 2011 at 2:35 pm Link to this comment

Young kids are growing up with the unmistakable message of worship of
successful swindlers and violence of all sorts. Their environment very often
includes poor parenting (not necessarily related to class,) economic hardship, and
problematic access to health care and adequate education.  The political/economic
situation we’ve been supporting for years reinforces all of that.

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By anonymous, January 9, 2011 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“This 22 year old seems to be suffering an attention deficit disorder.”

It’s astonishing how much is attributed to ADD.  From the videos posted elsewhere on this site, he’s clearly suffering from a thought disorder, and the only question is whether he’s psychotic or stoned.

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By louiss123, January 9, 2011 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Someone is creating quotes from me on here..I guess you can cut and paste what
you want.


Good point David J.

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By David J. Cyr, January 9, 2011 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

Liberals are reflexively blaming this Arizona incident upon “uncivil” conservative rhetoric, and inanimate guns.

However, the nice (D) civil-tongued “progressive” liberals regularly join together with crude rude-talking (R) conservatives to provide near unanimous American popular vote mandates to routinely send young Americans (and robotic weapons) to mug and murder people anywhere on the planet that business interests wants them sent.

The only thing unusual about this American “loner” — Jared Lee Loughner’s — violence is the direction his gun was aimed. His violence shocks “good” Americans because it was aimed at government, rather than aimed by government.

If, as liberals are now bleating, Sarah Palin should be in jail for her words having possibly provided provocation for this relatively minor incident, then everyone who has voted for the corporate war party’s Republicans or Democrats should be in jail too, for their provision of all those near unanimous popular vote mandates supporting America’s perpetual wars of aggression… **THE** most ultra-violent crimes.

America has secret ballot voting to protect those who are the guilty accomplices in all its war crimes, and all its structural domestic violence.

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By Igloo, January 9, 2011 at 1:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Once a country enters moral and cultural decay there is precious little that can be done except a rebirth. Can you expect a rebirth/Rennaissance when Demagoguery, alienation, breakdown of justice, rampant gun ownership, a corporate run Media and an almighty military industrial complex are the salient characteristics of our society? The signs of decay have been there since the 1960’s after Kennedy’s assasination, followed so many senseless massacres by alienated madmen. These days you never know if you are going to encounter a madman by just going shopping or eating at a McDonalds. While our society is breaking apart we seek adventure in places like Iraq, Afghanistan. May God help us!

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By reynolds, January 9, 2011 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

louiss123; it is intellectually lazy to shoot people.

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By Free1, January 9, 2011 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It is sad to see that some Americans are forced to go to these lengths to get a point across. Most of 300 Million Americans are good people, but you have a faction of Oligarchs that are corrupt as hell ... the ones in power ... 99% of them!

They are bent on social engineering and using divide and conquer tactics on you as they are all around the world. It’s why Americans in general are soooo hated globally.

Here in Canada we see it clearly as it spills over from your politics and business to our politics and in general. We have 6.5 Million registered guns and estimated 12 to 15 Million other guns. Yet we don’t go killing haphazardly since we are waiting for the big one ... the big revolt to defend ourselves from the corrupt. We watch, learn and educate ourselves about who the real problem is. It’s all there in black and white and documents fully and freely available to the public.

You know your forefathers and foremothers ran away from corruption of Europe’s oligarchs to start a new republic and they succeeded til The British came in with their Banks and treachery. This is the end-all and be-all of your problems.

Go look at your Articles of Independence and you will see how the British manipulated you to a constitution of We the People. You want real freedom then you need to get rid of your biggest problem. It is clearly described in http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/a_new_beginning/a_history_of_commerce.htm
and in http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1289338414420676723#

In studying Jared Lee Loughner http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10 and related sources we see he’s highly pissed at the world due to misinformation given to him. His misinformation is definitely from same manipulating sources as is present in your government and industry today, and as it has always been ... by the oligarchs. Same oligarchs that promote School of the Americas which trains most juntas and tyrants/terrorists world wide.

Once you comprehend this then you can move to “it’s the economy stupid” ... this means it’s all about money. Fed is a Private Bank started by the British, Rothschilds and Rockefellers [war of 1812 come to mind?], it’s preceded by Roman Phoenician and Jewish bankers, derived from Babylonian bankers ... a totally corrupt system of stealing hard earned money, land and resources from Everyone it touches.

Even one of the Sumerian Gods found it so corrupt he/she destroyed all of Babylon. It’s called “usury” ... look it up.

BTW if I wasn’t clear enough: you are ALL immigrants to this land if your heritage is from somewhere else. So don’t pick on immigrants. Look in your own skeleton closets before making judgments.

How about some solutions instead of all this bickering? How about plans and ideas for after the world goes to hell and back? We have this once in a 10000 yr chance to have a communication system that spans the globe and reaches to almost every part of it, why not use it to depose the corrupt as Wikileaks is doing? Why not expose every official, boss, bully and tyrant for who they really are and throw them in jail?

Did you know you can lock up all corrupt corporations just by parking your scrap cars on their lots? Now what would Washington look like if this happened?

Enjoy smile

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By Blackspeare, January 9, 2011 at 12:24 pm Link to this comment

I believe the important point is whether the governor of Arizona pulls the plug on a critical patient or a madman shoots and kills someone, it is just different sides of the same coin called murder!

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By sallysense, January 9, 2011 at 12:24 pm Link to this comment

my heart goes out to everyone hurt or killed by senseless acts of violence!... it saddens me to see mentalities that don’t know any better do harm or call for harm to be done to others… wherever or whoever they may be… there’s never a decent reason for inhumane treatment!...

for the sake of all human beings and their futures we need more awareness!...

mindsets sit full of illusion… yet other than optical or theatrical illusion… so few people know what it is… and those who don’t think people need to know about illusion are already under its influence more than they realize…

schools need to teach students about illusion… so they can learn how everyone’s standard human perception uses illusion… which can distort something from being seen “as it actually is”... into something else much different… when thoughts (already in the mind) substitute their own ‘pictures’ (or connotations etc) instead…

with this learning in mind… then mental pictures that resurface as ignorant social or racial or extremist or manipulative bias etc are less apt to make bigger impacts… as they’ll have awareness of many alternatives available… and they’ll have advantages of being more prone to use added consideration as they live with themselves and others in our world here!...

(this isn’t a cure or a fix… but at least it’s a beginning)...

my thoughts and prayers go out to everyone!...

a heartfelt wishingwell to each’n'all!... smile

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By Inherit The Wind, January 9, 2011 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

FF:
You assume (probably correctly) that if this asshole didn’t get his gun legally he could have just as easily gotten it illegally.

But guns aren’t drugs. Do we just give up and say there will be NO controls on deadly weapons purchases and transfers?

Or are you confusing two separate problems:

1) Control of legal sales to people who don’t have a history or criminal activity or mental illness is a total and complete failure.  You need a license to drive, fish or hunt. Why not to buy a gun, with proper proof you are old enough, and not a criminal or documented loony?

2) Control of the illegal gun trade. These are criminals, seeking guns for criminal purposes.  There’s nothing in the 2nd Amend that says that is OK.  Yet, the ease at which they can be obtained is terrifying. I don’t know of a single state that allows easy access to machine guns—you need all sorts of special licenses to have one of those—and the criminals get them anyway, all the time.

I’m not EVEN going to get into the debate where the 2nd is the only amend in the BOR that explains its reason for existence—and it’s not so some psycho can freely walk around with his piece waiting for his chance to shoot a congresswoman and a judge. You KNOW the founding fathers didn’t have this guy in mind!

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By Thomas Dooley, January 9, 2011 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

This incident will be used to strip more rights from the USA domestic population. Look for increased use of TSA scanners in many more places where one wouldn’t expect. Police will be given more power over the population with stop-and-frisk and even rougher police tactics becoming normal parts of everyday life.

This shooting may be a nightmare for Giffords and her family and even for the madman and his family, but it is a blessing for authoritarians. Expect to hear them bellowing from Congress and from the pages of newspapers and blogs for increased control of the US domestic population. You know, for our own protection.

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By Allan Krueger, January 9, 2011 at 10:45 am Link to this comment

Fox, Palin, Limbaugh… play to the drooling right! Then, when some lunatic latches on to their BS and kills people (LIKE THIS BULLSHIT IN TUCSON), the reply / solution is that EVERYONE SHOULD BE CARRYING! Are you telling me the Fascist state of Arizona, has strict gun laws?

The political system is corrupt / broken beyond repair and the people who have the pulpit are phonies and liars! This country nauseates me!

Don’t retreat, RELOAD! Thanks Sarah, for your macho, simplistic vitrol!

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By RayLan, January 9, 2011 at 10:37 am Link to this comment

From what political party have we heard of ‘second ammendment solutions”?
As soon as we act and decide on visceral beliefs that are not amenable to reaons - violence and terrorism become more and more likely.

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By Fat Freddy, January 9, 2011 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

The attitude of the wealthy Republican Right: To consolidate 25% of the nations
wealth under 1% of the people is more than worth it – it’s a small price to pay.
To strip Americans of meaningful political action – it’s a great return on
investment.

Oh really? Just the Republicans? Who just made his Chief of Staff a former JP Morgan Exec? Huh? Who was it? JPM is the most powerful banker in the world. Now they have a man in the White House. You defend the “consolidation” and don’t even realize it.

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By the worm, January 9, 2011 at 10:21 am Link to this comment

The next time we read about the suicide bombers in the middle east and
Afghanistan, and their ‘indiscriminate killings’, and their murder of civilians,
and their ‘insanity’, their fanaticism, let’s stop and look into our own culture.

The next time we read about an ayatollah’s call to violence, let’s stop and look
into our own culture.

We have our own public ayatollah’s of the Republican Party and its toady Tea
Party:
Rush and Glenn and their spawn.


“Don’t retreat, reload!” 

- Sarah Palin, former Governor of Alaska

“If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward
those Second Amendment remedies.” 

- Sharron Angle, former member of the Nevada State Assembly

“If ballots don’t work, bullets will.” 

- Joyce Kaufman, Radio host, Tea Party activist

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of
patriots and tyrants.” 

- Currently serving United States Congresswoman from Minnesota, leader of the
Tea Party Caucus, paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson

Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck had nothing to do with, I bet.

But here’s something to think about:

The Republicans long ago decided on this approach and they have stuck with it.
It would pay in the long run, they believed, and so, they have not varied.

The approach - Change the culture and it will be easy to change the laws.

This in contrast to what they believed to be the Democratic approach - Change
the laws to facilitate change in the culture (e.g. voting rights act, etc).

So, determined and with lots and lots of money, the Republicans began:
Capturing a network (Fox), capturing talk radio, building an extensive network
of ‘psuedo-think tanks’ to serve up ready made quotations, Steve Forbes, et al
seeding a further right group (the Tea Party) and calling it ‘grass roots’.

And, so, the Republicans (specifically the most wealthy among them) have built
their political success on the success of their financial success and watched
their effort to ‘change the culture make it easy to change the laws’ – no worker
representation, no environmental restrictions, etc, bailouts of corporations,
transforming private loses to public debt, etc.

But, here’s the core hypocrisy: When ever things like this happen, the
Republicans claim to have had nothing to do with it.

Oh? Nothing to do with violent acts that arise from fear, ignorance, violent
rhetoric? Hmmm.  I doubt it. Me thinks they do protest too much.

The Republicans know full well what they’ve done.

The attitude of the wealthy Republican Right: To consolidate 25% of the nations
wealth under 1% of the people is more than worth it – it’s a small price to pay.
To strip Americans of meaningful political action – it’s a great return on
investment.

The victims of the attitude: Gabby, yes. But the American middle class and the
American worker and the American family. The loss of our ability to fund public
schools and prepare our kids for the 21st Century, to lose of our rights as
workers to speak up and share in decisions about American corporations and
economic policy, to protect the elderly, the weak and the unemployed, under-
employed. America’s middle class is the group most harmed by the very
rhetoric and retro attitudes funded by the wealthy right wingers. Gabby was
someone who spoke out against this. The lesson is clear to us - speak against
the wealthy, the right and the greedy and, you too, could be a victim.

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Mike789's avatar

By Mike789, January 9, 2011 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

Fat Freddy, January 9 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

louiss123,

This has nothing to do with guns folks.

Oh yes, it does.

Concur with FatFreddy. Nonetheless, I’m not anti-guns. I have owned a piece while in the military. If I could put off buying a tool for making something in my workshop, I’d buy another.

What I find disturbing is the lining up with the sloganism put out by the NRA to just simply sustain their existence when their is no substancive threat to the 2nd Ammendment. Used to be they were about responsible gun ownership. Now it’s political hyperbole and misdirection. Now, even when mentioning reasonable registration and background checks at gun shows, they dig in their heels. Another dickhead with a history of mental illness falls through the cracks.

My concern has been and continues to be the illegal sales out of car trucks and surrogate purchases; no doubt where our latest numbskull procured his 9mm and 30 round clip. Where is the NRA when it comes to that issue. Sit on it and make a nice policy statement.

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By FRTothus, January 9, 2011 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

What have we become?

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, January 9, 2011 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

This 22 year old seems to be suffering an attention deficit disorder.  He apparently planned to get caught.

If he didn’t have a gun it could have just as easily been a car or a tractor trailer.

The world is getting smaller and our number of nut cases increases all in proportion to the population.

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Fat Freddy's avatar

By Fat Freddy, January 9, 2011 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

Yeah, this guy bought his gun LEGALLY on Nov 30, under his own name.

Would it make you feel better if he bought it illegally? Drugs are illegal, and look at how many people buy and sell them. I can make a few phone calls and get all the drugs, and guns, and whores, that my money can buy. Hell, I don’t even have to make any phone calls, all I have to do is drive the streets in Camden or Newark, and someone will flag me down, trying to sell me something illegal. That’s REALITY. The Black Market will always exist, and passing laws only reinforces it, and makes it more profitable to the criminals selling their wares.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 9, 2011 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

Meanwhile, the letter bombs against government offices seem to have been forgotten, yet their targets indicate a similar political position to this guy in Tucson…..

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By Inherit The Wind, January 9, 2011 at 9:19 am Link to this comment

Lemme see.  We have one positing YET AGAIN that this was a “Zionist false flag op”.  Yeah, like Gifford would be selected as an “ideal” target beforehand.  And the poster even claims “scientific” thinking. Here’s a tip, Mr. Scientist: Ex Post Facto hypothesizing is not a valid “scientific” method.

Then we have another absurd comment saying it’s gun control’s fault!

Yeah, this guy bought his gun LEGALLY on Nov 30, under his own name.  In Arizona, apparently anyone CAN buy a gun and I believe they have a CC law.

Finally there’s an unconfirmed report that someone else DID have a gun and fired at this shooter, but didn’t hit him.  No news if that person existed and if there was “collateral damage” trying to take down the shooter.

This was apparently an angry young disaffected white guy bitchin’ about immigrants and positing Glenn Beck’s inane bizarro ideas on economics.  Just an American version of a suicide bomber—even left a suicide “note”.

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godistwaddle's avatar

By godistwaddle, January 9, 2011 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

Regarding the congressperson’s shooting,I think we
can all agree that Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes, Glenn
Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner,
Eric Cantor, Peter King, Larry Summers, Tim Geithner,
perhaps even Obama,  Wall Street and other
conservatives are doing the “Happy Dance Circle Jerk”
over this, eh?
When the Barlow strikers threatened the plutocrat, he
had them shot.  Homestead, Haymarket, Joe Hill,
Malcolm, Martin.  The rich know how to get it done,
and the rest of us grab our ankles.

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Fat Freddy's avatar

By Fat Freddy, January 9, 2011 at 7:41 am Link to this comment

louiss123,

This has nothing to do with guns folks.

Oh yes, it does. Whenever you prevent people from being able to defend themselves, by passing laws that limit when, where and how people can own and carry guns, like “gun free zones”, you have created a killing field for any mass murderer, like Jared Lee Loughner, to kill. Where were the police? Why was he tackled by “two people”? If these two brave people were allowed to open-carry or conceal-carry, how many of those 6 lives would have been saved? You can’t rely on the police to protect you, because they simply can not. The only thing the police can really do, is mop up the blood afterwords.

This is about guns. Listen the New Hampshire State Representative Jenn Coffey. NH has some of the most “liberal” gun laws in the country, and they are ranked among the “safest” states in the country.

NH Rep. Jenn Coffey Testifies Against Victimhood (1:47)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl2RWDrS-GI

This incident is exactly what she is talking about.

When you prevent people from carrying guns, you create victims.

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D.R. Zing's avatar

By D.R. Zing, January 9, 2011 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

One group responsible for this tragedy is the news media. They gave Sarah Palin an audience even after it was clear she was a whacko unsuited for public office or public commentary. She’s the one who trumpeted the “cross-hairs” metaphor. Read Chris Hedges’ latest column. He and Ralph Nader discuss who is being excluded from the national television news and who is being excluded from the opinion pages of the largest national newspapers:  those commentators who advocate peace. “Give peace a chance.”

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oddsox's avatar

By oddsox, January 9, 2011 at 7:09 am Link to this comment

“Glenn Beck and Al Franken have
more in common than each would like to admit!”
louiss123, you’re absolutely correct & thank you.
(also, neither is as funny as he thinks he is)

Meanwhile, note the wording on this Truthdig link leading right back to this story. 
Posted at 3:28pm PST 1/8/11 in email to notify of additional comments.
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/az_congresswoman_assassinated_20110108/

So many people who should know better have eagerly leaped to conclusion on this thread, especially early.
Tragic events like these gin up the lunatic fringe on all sides.

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By ardee, January 9, 2011 at 7:04 am Link to this comment

louiss123, January 9 at 11:18 am

My experience has been..right wing folks seem a
bit more simple in their approach. They tend to have a couple issues they voice
and then they are back to work or taking care of their kids. Left wing folks
seem to have more time on their hands..however ..and this is my opinion
here(duh)..I have never met more inflexible, childish angry hateful people than
those in the ‘extreme’ liberal group. Some are very intelligent..I mean look at
the rants here in truthdig..some love to show off how much they know. Many
just think..adopt socialism and everything will be fine. Canada, Sweden are so
cool…well I have friends living in both those places and things dont work so
well.

Oh certainly, the Tea Party just absolutely proves your point about the right wing being so very polite and uninvolved. Of all the commentators in our media one finds a rather long list of those who rant and rage on the right.

Frankly, I find your comments to be more of an attempt to conceal your own right wing smearing of the left than to contain anything of value. Yeah, those damn intelligent lefties. they know so much and doesnt it just irritate the hell out of you who, by inference, knows little to nothing.

How convenient that you have friends in both Canada and Sweden who tell you how bad things are there. Free education through graduate school, health care for all, yup, just horrible, how do they stand it?

Who do you think to fool?

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By Michael, January 9, 2011 at 6:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why isn’t this vile, murderous, act of terrorism… called terrorism in the media? Think if the lunatic had been a Muslim, does anyone doubt that the attack would have been called terrorism, or Muslim terrorism?

Second point, let’s have a truly literal reading of the Second Amendment and the ‘right’ to bear arms. Obviously they were not referring to automatic weapons, which didn’t exist in the 18th century. So Americans have the ‘right’ to bear muzzle-loaded, one-shot, muskets and pistols, and nothing else, period.

This would make masacres a thing of the past as one would have one shot and no time to reload. This literal interpretation of the Constitution would satisfy everyone and at the same time deny madmen the ‘right’ to mass slaughter.

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By louiss123, January 9, 2011 at 6:18 am Link to this comment

Jeez..listen to you people.,talk about hate filled speech. I live in Santa Cruz Ca,
a liberal town to say the least. Being neither a Repub or Dem I can observe both
sides somewhat’ objectively. My experience has been..right wing folks seem a
bit more simple in their approach. They tend to have a couple issues they voice
and then they are back to work or taking care of their kids. Left wing folks
seem to have more time on their hands..however ..and this is my opinion
here(duh)..I have never met more inflexible, childish angry hateful people than
those in the ‘extreme’ liberal group. Some are very intelligent..I mean look at
the rants here in truthdig..some love to show off how much they know. Many
just think..adopt socialism and everything will be fine. Canada, Sweden are so
cool…well I have friends living in both those places and things dont work so
well.
This event in AZ is just plain sad…........no other way to say it. Instead of
arguing.. why cant we learn to accept each others differences? It is SO
intellectually lazy to slam tea party folks, or conservatives. The same to the
other side..knuckleheads like Beck, Savage etc. have no clue..they will go to
their grave filled with hate and fear. They are in a place of intolerance that both
sides reside in..and it is stinky and yucky.
A brief thing on Liberty. It is a bitch..plain and simple. When there is liberty
present someone is going to be pissed off big time. The left wont want folks to
have guns..the right wont want women to be able to abort their babies. Ya
see?..on a foundational level left and right are the same..it is about
intolerance..and coercion. They want to FORCE people to do as they think is
best. It is all about being RIGHT about our opinions.

///////////////
On a spiritual level..we are all connected. Yes Glenn Beck and Al Franken have
more in common than each would like to admit!
We all have a choice..always..to come from acceptance?...or hate and fear.

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By Garry, January 9, 2011 at 5:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is completely shocking!My heart goes out to the victims and their families. This is a terrible story whether there is a political cause to this or just a man gone wild!!

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By CaptRon, January 9, 2011 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

Now here is a situation that John “The Weeper” Boehner could shed a tear and it would be understood. I would even join him…but ne’er a drop. He wrote the obligatory statement but no real emotion. Well, not publicly, but maybe behind the scenes that emotion surfaces. I can see it now, the realization that he might pick up an extra vote in the House for his side. Now that will bring tears to his eyes for sure…

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By zzonerr, January 9, 2011 at 4:27 am Link to this comment

This is how dog politics works.  It only takes one sick puppy.  Or in this case, two, since it seems the police are looking for a second “person of interest.”  But if there were two, doesn’t that blow the whole lone deranged malcontent story.  And what about the reference to the number 88 on the shooter’s MySpace page.  That’s a well known white supremacist symbol.  But no mention of it anywhere in the MSM.  As for “Guns don’t kill. People do,” thanks for playin, try again.  The truth is it’s people together with guns who kill.  If we’re so intent on preserving the 2nd amendment right in its pure form as it was given to us by our blessed forefathers, then you can only have muskets or whatever they carried in the 1780’s, not today’s weapons.

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By idiot, January 9, 2011 at 4:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i think it is an anglo amerikkkan problem, give arizona new mexico nevada and california back to the indigenous, send the insane home to blueblood land

whyte fighters can go fight it out on the east coast south or great white north with sarah and her nra ilk..

you people are a bunch of wikiphucs

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Not One More!'s avatar

By Not One More!, January 9, 2011 at 3:29 am Link to this comment

I don’t know where the shooter is coming from, or what side he ‘represents.’

But it is clear that the words that Fox News, Sarah Palin, and many other politicians publicly state are hate talk. It is inflammatory, hate filled, and sometimes based on factually incorrect information. Sometimes it is just outright lies. Yet, they ever get challenged by any major media outlet or high ranking officials because they are all spreading their own lies that they don’t want anyone to question.

When several people publicly called for the killing of Wikileaks’ Julian Assange, including Sarah Palin, nobody challenged, much less questioned, its place in a civilized society.

Of course, we don’t have a civilized society, otherwise there would be no middle east war, there would be health care for all, and we wouldn’t have the systemic corporate corruption that is ruining society and our environment.

You are either inclusive or exclusive. You are either fear based or love based. You are either holding out a helping hand or pushing someone down.

Our major culture is one that marginalizes people that get in the way of the corporate elite (ie- pro-peace protesters, people questioning GMO foods, people questions the wall street bailouts, people questioning the voting process etc).

You have to stand firm for peace and justice. And it requires active participation by a critical mass. We don’t have it, never did, and most likely never will.

so it goes

http://www.NotOneMore.US - Take the Pledge for Peace and Justice

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ChaviztaKing's avatar

By ChaviztaKing, January 9, 2011 at 3:10 am Link to this comment

This is just some food for thought relevant to this case that could lead the blame of The Tea Party terrorist killer of today to Sarah Palin.  Some weeks ago Huckabee and Sarah Palin called for the hunting and murder of Julian Assange. That is a proof to lock Sarah Palin in jail.  Take a look at the dangerous threat of Sarah Palin commented by The Bourne Supremacy Movie Star Matt Damon in this video: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk


.

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By reynolds, January 9, 2011 at 2:18 am Link to this comment

in his waning hours, timothy mcveigh wrote out henley’s
“invictus” on a yellow mini legal pad, his handwriting
careful and neat. then he called for a priest. i don’t
think a man who understood either gesture would make
both.
their stated missions aside, mcveigh, kaczynski, this
latest unfortunate are about destruction and chaos. it
is a mistake to attribute to any of them much more than
a large, explosive chip on a narrow shoulder.

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