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Ear to the Ground

At Bail Hearing, Zimmerman Apologizes for Killing

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Posted on Apr 20, 2012
AP/Orlando Sentinel, Gary W. Green, Pool

George Zimmerman takes the stand during Friday’s bail hearing.

George Zimmerman, the volunteer neighborhood watch patrolman charged with killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, apologized to the teenager’s family Friday as a judge set bail at $150,000. Zimmerman awaits trial on a charge of second-degree murder.

The setting of bail for Zimmerman dismayed Martin’s parents, who had rejected an offer of a face-to-face apology from the defendant.

After the hearing, Benjamin Crump, the attorney of Martin’s family, said of the parents:

“They are devastated, completely devastated, that after nine days from the killer of their son being arrested, they learned today that he will be released. They have to accept the court’s decision. They pray that his freedom is only temporary, because the pain that he has caused this family is going to be permanent.”

—ARK

The Guardian:

“I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of their son. I did not know how old he was – I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not,” Zimmerman said.

Zimmerman’s attorneys were seeking a bond to have him released before trial. He was granted bail of $150,000 by Judge Kenneth Lester, but will not be immediately released.

The terms of the bond include electronic monitoring and GPS, no contact with Martin’s family, regular meetings with officers, and no access to firearms.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 24, 2012 at 5:11 am Link to this comment

gerard, - “kindness for me to tell me that I am either a double-dealing liar or a split personality?”

-

Huh?

And Trayvon Martin, as a black male, was feared in a black/Hispanic neighborhood.  Interesting how you come to your assumptions/conclusions. wink

Report this

By gerard, April 23, 2012 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

IMax:  Just casually wondering how come it is a “kindness” for you to tell you that you are either a double-dealing liar or a split personality?  Or both? What possible pleasure could I take out of that miserable fact?

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 23, 2012 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

gerard,

Regardless of our differences I’m going to extend to you a terrific kindness.  Perhaps one day you’ll return the same.

Americanme is MoonRagin.

Please never say I never did anything nice for you wink

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, April 23, 2012 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

americanme,

Zionist trolls nothing more, no job, no real life but post crap day in and day out according to AIPAC talking points.  Nothing like a good smear here and there. 

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jonathon-blakeley-a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls.html

Their playbook doesn’t change.  I’ve been posting here over 5 years now and can attest to that fact.

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By Maani, April 23, 2012 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

Gerard:

“americanme:  I sincerely apologize for my part in this verbal duel. Please don’t judge Truthdig by such nonsense.”

LOL.  Methinks you have too high an opinion of yourself…LOL.  I think americanme was alluding to IMaAx and hetero…

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By heterochromatic, April 23, 2012 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

——Every time I return to this site it is worse!——


correct and not coincidentally.

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By gerard, April 23, 2012 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

americanme:  I sincerely apologize for my part in this verbal duel. Please don’t judge Truthdig by such nonsense.

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americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 23, 2012 at 10:58 am Link to this comment

Every time I return to this site it is worse!

Two sockpuppet trolls have taken over.

Well, I say, let ‘em have it.

Truthdig’s articles aren’t worth reading anymore, either.

And technical problems continue.

Time to shut down the site, guys.

Report this

By gerard, April 23, 2012 at 9:37 am Link to this comment

IMax:  Thank you for NOT misquoting me this time. You repeated my words accurately as I remember in this early statement from me.  The twists and turns came along later, and bit by bit.  I don’t see what ticked you off in the first place, let alone continued your attacks time and again after that.
  People warned me some time ago not to “feed the trolls” and it is good advice.  I have a long habit of giving people the benefit of the doubt, so to speak, and was hoping and hoping to free you from your anger and ill-will, which hurts you more than it does anyone elsle, in all probability. I misjudged you—or overestimated my ability—or both.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 23, 2012 at 3:39 am Link to this comment

gerard, - Imax “has it in for gerard”.

-

LOL…let’s not go off the paranoid deep end.  I no more have it in for you than you have it in for the United States as a whole.

Here is how you described the Martin/Zimmerman tragedy.

“He (Martin) was black. Many people (especially in that territory) ‘feel threatened’ by black people.” - “It was night, and he was in or near some kind of ‘gated’ community which was probably also traumatized by fear—otherwise, why ‘gated’.”

“He (Martin), too, had been hearing a lot about “surveillance” and how it is necessary for the government to keep its electronic eyes on everybody just in case ... with the predictable result ... inchoate fear.” - “The behavior of Zimmerman, though it may not be widely seen as such, to me is a clear example of this social disintegration, and the increase in white supremacist groups reported by civil rights organizations shows us that Zimmerman is a victim as well as Martin…”

You also opined, incorrectly, that Zimmerman ought to be arrested and incarcerated (until trial) immediately because he shot someone.  Like it or not, gerard, it is not illegal to shoot someone.  I keep reminding you how we must deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it to be.

Which part have I misunderstood or taken out of context, gerard?

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By gerard, April 22, 2012 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

Note to all:  This tiresome person IMax is misquoting me, twisting my opinions until they are unrecognizeable to me, has no sense of humor or proportion, seems to deliberately misunderstand, and apparently “has it in for gerard”. Not much I can do about it, sorry to say.  Chalk it up to freedom of speech. There must be some reason he/she wants to shut me up. In all my 98 years I have been fortunate to never have run into this problem before.

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

my last word is used to repeat what I earlier asked of
you.,,,, read my words more carefully and respond to
what I’m saying rather than doing something other.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 22, 2012 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

gerard, - “Well, after all, we all know that gerard is not very astute..”

-

Arguing as passionately as you do, that Martin was universally feared in a gated community which is over 30% black, and that intentional wide-spread, systematic, government sponsored fear explains the existence of gated communities, and assuming “gated” means Caucasian is, well, not reasonably considered astute. 

You have to admit, gerard, you took a scant minimum of information and outlined an outlandish narrative for your cause(s).  You call it empathy, sympathy, and caring.  I call it exploiting a disaster.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 22, 2012 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

hetero, - “understand what I’m saying and instead simply resort to distortion via paraphrase…”

-

I am most earnestly trying to understand.  I am particularly trying to understand why so many feel it’s business as usual to exploit Martin’s death or Zimmerman’s pains for their cause.

You and others are explaining how and why the racial aspects of this tragedy should be assumed.  Not only should we assume race played a significant role, we should assume this only on the part of one.  The Hispanic male.  You said it yourself.  Zimmerman is likely lying, thus guilty.  Trayvon Martin died, in part, because he’s black, in America.

I’m asking again.  How are you and others reaching this conclusion?  Sanford is a small city.  A city wherein 50% are black or Hispanic and 45% white.  You keep arguing that Martin somehow stood out in a neighborhood, a “gated community”, which is roughly 33% black.  Is it possible Martin stood out for reasons other than his color?  In this case it seems more likely.  It’s even possible Martin stood out for the reasons Zimmerman explained. 

I am far less frightened of a Martin or a Zimmerman than I am of the anger inciting mob reaching far too many conclusions with a bare minimum of information.  The likes of which we can witness on these threads.

You get the last word.

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By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment

Max—- I don’t mind having the discussion with you, but if you’re not going to
read and understand what I’m saying and instead simply resort to distortion via
paraphrase, it kinda takes a lot of fun out of it…at least for me, if not yourself.

you want to be a little more honest and somewhat more serious we can keep at it,
otherwise I’m better off buttering my horse’s hay.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 22, 2012 at 1:23 pm Link to this comment

hetero,

So you’re assuming that a black male walking around in a black/Hispanic neighborhood will stand out more than most?

I’m still attempting to understand where this charge of racial profiling played a significant part in this incident.

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

more stuted than most

Report this

By gerard, April 22, 2012 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Well, after all, we all know that gerard is not very astute,in fact probably pretty close to astuteless.
In addition to that, she avoids facing facts and is only interested in peddling her own agenda, which is off-the-wall crazy, didactic, anti-democratic, dictatorial, fascist and at times utterly incomprehensible. Any questions?

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment

americanme——have you ever shot and killed someone w/o feeling somewhat
bad about it?

Report this

By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

not quite what i said, max….. what i was saying is that there’s nothing known to
have made Z confront the kid other than the kid’s appearence .....and THEREFORE
it’s reasonable to assume that the kid’s race was part of the appearance deal…...
(and I do mean PART, not all.)

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 22, 2012 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

hetero,

Ahhhh, so you’re saying Zimmerman’s observations of Martin walking around in the rain checking out houses, in an area plagued by home invasions, correctly made Martin appear “suspicious”.

So the incident may have had less to do with race but, rather, appearing suspicious overall.  We’ll see how it turns out.

-

Your observations are a sight more astute than gerard’s claims that because Martin was black, walking in a black/Hispanic area, people were, naturally, frightened of Martin.

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americanme's avatar

By americanme, April 22, 2012 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

Do you believe this guy’s apology?

I don’t.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, April 22, 2012 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

I see this apology similiar to the ones the U.S. military makes in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan after they blow up wedding partys and funerals, we’re sorry until the next time this happens and then we’ll be sorry again.

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By heterochromatic, April 22, 2012 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

yes, IMax, we ARE operating under the assumption that
martin’s appearance, rather than his actions, led to
the confrontation that proved fatal. It IS an
assumption and it seems to be a pretty damn reasonable
one.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 22, 2012 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

Two days shy of a month past I asked this question of myself and others:

‘Is it safe to assume that if Trayvon Martin were Caucasian or Hispanic chances are he would be alive today?  Or do we assume the difference in skin color between Zimmerman and Martin played a role?’ - I then went on to say that I had “my own opinion on the matter (that race may have play a role), however, so far, that opinion is unsupported by any facts that I am aware of.”

-

Today, a month past, we have seen zero evidence that race played a leading or significant role in this tragedy.  All we are left with are people’s imaginations, assumptions, accusations and a disdain for my pointing out the difference between supposition and what is proved to date.

Racism: “Racial prejudice or discrimination.” - I can find no other explanation for my first reaction to this incident.

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By heterochromatic, April 21, 2012 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment

good point ...any apology IS better than none at all.

g’night.

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By Maani, April 21, 2012 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

hetero:

With due respect, I must continue to disagree.  There are times when one is simply not able to make the apology in the presence of the recipient.  Does that mean that no apology should be made at all?

Any genuine, heartfelt apology - even if one cannot look into the eyes of the recipient(s) - is better than no apology at all.  And it can always be followed up by an “in-person” apology if that opportunity presents itself.

Peace.

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By heterochromatic, April 21, 2012 at 10:34 pm Link to this comment

Maani—I rarely devote my full attention to truthdig, even as i comment, I’m
usually up to some other stuff….and it quite often is evidenced in the poor
spelling and garbled syntax of my stuff.


and , no, an apology is not an apology, particularly when it’s not made looking
into the eyes of those to whom it’s due and offered.  too often apologies are self-
serving and even the one Z offered is being questioned.

http://youtu.be/0lhIy30yS_0

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By Maani, April 21, 2012 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

hetero:

I’m curious: do you have a life outside of TD?  Or do you sit at your computer 24/7 just waiting for the next comment that you can respond to?  LOL.

An apology is an apology, no matter what distance - literal or figurative - may be between the giver and the recipient.  Apologies should always be given as immediately as possible, in whatever form is best or most appropriate at the time.

Peace.

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By heterochromatic, April 21, 2012 at 10:10 pm Link to this comment

Maani——any apology NOT made to the faces of the parents seems to me a
lesser thing and unlikely to ever be accepted as sincere.

and I believe your thought about Z being told by his attorneys not to offer an
apology is very likely to be true.


I very much doubt that there’s an attorney in the nation who would allow a client
under threat of indictment to make such a voluntary statement…

Report this

By Maani, April 21, 2012 at 10:01 pm Link to this comment

hetero:

Who says he needed to be in the presence of Martin’s parents?  He could have offered a general apology at any time, since that apology would have found its way to Mrtin’s parents immediately.

Peace.

Report this
IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 21, 2012 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment

Surfboy,

I cannot recall not answering a question from you.  Refresh my memory.

Concerning the question I posed which you believe to be inane: “Apart from the prejudicial mindset in Zimmerman’s accusers, what evidence exists that Zimmerman relied on race or national origin on the day in question??

You’re saying the evidence of Zimmerman’s racial bias can be found within the ‘Tone’ of his voice?  No specific action or phrase proves his racial bias but, rather, the way in which he speaks or the tone of his voice?

Am I understanding you correctly?


-

Gerard,

You appear to be going to great lengths in avoidance of saying you have only imagined racial bias on the part of Zimmerman and have no real evidence that race played a role in this tragedy after all.  Is this not correct?

Report this

By gerard, April 21, 2012 at 7:34 pm Link to this comment

IMax:  I regret to inform you that although, as you said, “A man’s life hangs in the balance, gerard.  Not your esoteric cause(s)”, it it equally true that another man’s life no longer hangs even in balance, because he was shot, IMax, and for very little if any “reason” beyond Zimmerman’s fear. (“I felt threatened.”)
  Martin’s parents, I am sure, wish in the name of all things holy that their son still lived , walked safely home from buying treats, exists somewhere, balanced, happy, looking forward to a long future etc. Apologies in the face of such sorrow are useless matters of form, usually indicating polite sympathy but not understanding, and a bit short of real repentance—which comes later, probably.
  As for my own personal opinion—it is probably not common, maybe even rare, but here it is (and don’t ask me any more questions because I am done with this matter:  I hope Zimmerman can be disabused of his paranoia (fear, feeling threatened, toting a loaded weapon, etc.) but, as I feel reasonably assured that this can never occur if he is in prison, but he will only grow worse, I don’t particularly want him in a common prison.
  In a place where he can get proper treatment, yes. Where he can be disarmed and not want to own a gun ever again, yes. Learn that all people, no matter what color, age, ethnicity or economic status, have as much right to be alive as he.  But where in this misbegotten and backward country can a place like that be found? So do I want him to be free to go?  No, because he’s apparently emotionally mixed up—not for me to say how, but the evidence is in his behavior.  So what to do, what to do?  This country “puts up with” thousands of such cases—most of them become exhorbitant income for private prison companies—another reprehensible element of our increasingly inhumane “system.”
  The smug tone in your comments actually makes me a little sick because I am now coming to believe that you can’t help it; rigid defensiveness is ingrained, which means you tend to pursue people with your
“questions” only in order to try to trap them into saying something further for you to “question” ad infinitum.  This may be fun for you, but for others it is a pain in the neck. People try their best, but no. Nothing is enough.  You want more, more, more. What is it you are fishing for?
  One simple point I want to repeat again; then I’m done:  Zimmerman killed Martin. Shooting people is wrong. Period. Zimmerman was folllowing Martin; Martin was not following Zimmerman.  Probably Martin “felt threatened” too, but he did not shoot Zimmerman. In cases where the reason was “I felt threatened,” it is almost impossible to defend the shooter.
  If nobody carried a gun, the Florida law “Stand your Ground” might be tolerable. People could resort to fist fights if they “felt threatened.” But that kind of law encourages carrying a weapon, and carrying a weapon encourages using it, and using it can result in grave injury or death. So the law is not fair to those who do not carry guns—which sounds pretty crazy to me.

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By heterochromatic, April 21, 2012 at 4:21 pm Link to this comment

IMax——- it probably has escaped your notice that people are not usually enirely
candid when explaining things to police. hard to believe, but true!!!!!!

as for the allegedly non-facetious portion of your comment…... I believe that a
proper answer to you would best be forborne.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 21, 2012 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment

gerard,

After reading all you had to say in your last post I never forgot that I asked a very specific question regarding a specific situation.  What I asked concerns the subject of this thread and meets the very heart of the issue you yourself specifically spoke to.

A man’s life hangs in the balance, gerard.  Not your esoteric cause(s).  Why is it always like pulling teeth to get you to answer a question? 

Apart from the prejudicial mindset evident in Zimmerman’s accusers, what evidence exists that Zimmerman relied on race or national origin on the day in question?

-

Hetero, - “Z relied on nothing OTHER than appearances.”

Not entirely correct but, yes, appearances.  Zimmerman explained his concerns both in the recordings and again to officers on the scene.  Which part of what he explained dealt with Mr. Martin being black?  Or are you further assuming that Zimmmerman acted as you may if faced with a similar situation? - I’m not being facetious in asking this question.  I have good cause to ask.

2nd Degree murder is a specific mindset which must be proved beyond any and all reasonable doubts.

Apart from the prejudicial mindset evident in Zimmerman’s accusers, what evidence exists that Zimmerman relied on race or national origin on the day in question?

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By heterochromatic, April 21, 2012 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

Maani——when and with what wording would you have had him apologize? Has
he been in the presence of Martin’s parents previously?


http://tinyurl.com/bloodyfool

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By Maani, April 21, 2012 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

What I want to know is: why did it take Zimmerman seven weeks to issue an apology?  Whether he was following the advice of counsel or not, how can anyone - least of all Trayvon’s parents - take seriously an apology that should have been issued within hours of the incident?

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By heterochromatic, April 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

IMax—- the scant evidence available suggests that Z relied on nothing OTHER
than appearances.

Report this

By gerard, April 21, 2012 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

IMax:  Since my previous attempt to answer your question on this site was mysteriously snatched by some electronic quirk, I will begin again. 
  The question should not be aimed at me because our own hetero had just previously MISTAKENLY alleged that it was something I said which I did NOT say, and that mistake he immediately apologized for. It was due, he says, to the fhe fact that a nearby comment had been made by someone else whose name happened to end in “-ard” and he mistook it.
  Coming from you now, TD’s eternal questioner of all people who make statements to which you reply with questions that some regard as not worth answering (or worse, that if they do answer they will only draw forth more questions of like ilk, and so refrain)....
..... jeez! Where was I?!  Talk about “tangled webs”!
  Anyway, the fact is I never said anything about “the seriousness of the charge outweighing the facts.”  We don’t yet know “the facts” and maybe never will.  But one fact we do know is that lots and lots of “white” folks are not feeling much pain over the facts, whatever they are.  They are only interested if they can make some points in favor of their point of view. Why is that, I wonder?
  Perhaps you can answer that question.  If not, please observe the millions of people who are not organizing a million man/woman mother/father sister/brother interracial march on Florida to help convince their legislatures to take the murderous “stand your ground” law off their books—for the sake of the reputatioin of the United States and the common sense of the Amercan Justice system—Of course such a demonstration of common sense would arounse the intense sorrow of the National Rifle Association and the thousands of ninnies, mostly white, who “feel threatened” by young black men. (PS—the irony is that they also “feel threatened” by “hispanic men” (white or otherwise) (along with their wives, brothers, sisters etc. who come here to harvest crops and do low-paying field work. So here it will probably boil down to the “lesser of two people we’d like to get rid of” -according to the habitual race defamers, sadly—under-educated whites with delusions of grandeur.
  I could rattle on about stuff like this for years, but you wouldn’t want so many answers.  Anyway, my answers don’t seem to amount to much, as the same “questions” (more than adequately answered years ago by history itself),yet still now are being posed, mostly for propaganda purposes, I guess.
  If the majority of Americans truly wanted such questions answered, they would not still be asked by rhetoriticians like yourself.  Have a nice day.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, April 21, 2012 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

Gerard,

I have a rather sober question which I hope you’ll take some time to consider.  Since when does the seriousness of the charge outweigh the facts of the case in question?

Here is the argument many are employing in this case: Mr. Martin was black.  Mr. Zimmerman, Hispanic.  Therefore Zimmerman initiated an action that relied on the race, ethnicity, or national origin rather than the behavior of Martin. 

Setting aside the “sinful and continuing” race prejudice evidently employed by those making the argument, I’ve seen no evidence to date which would suggest that Mr. Zimmerman is guilty of that same prejudice. - If there does exist evidence of Zimmerman employing inordinate or uncommon racial profiling, prior to or during this tragic incident, I would greatly appreciate such evidence be displayed here on this thread.

In other words; apart from the prejudicial mindset evident in Zimmerman’s accusers, what evidence exists that Zimmerman relied on race or national origin on the day in question?

Report this

By Margaret Currey, April 21, 2012 at 4:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Zimmerman did kill Trayvon but to say he is a hardened criminal it does not appear so.

In any event the law seems to be on Zimmerman’s side and Fla. law appears to be on Zimmerman’s side.

I doubt that the second degree murder charge will apply because Z will either plea down or go to trial, and if the jury says he is not guilty he will walk.

What will happen if he walks that is uncertain.

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By gerard, April 20, 2012 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment

p.s. to hetero:  That remark has been said many times in many places, but I don’t think I ever said it myself.  Nor would I.  It’a one of those things that tens of thousands of people suspect, but it’s not a fact in this case.
  What’s more of a fact is that it is extremely doubtful that Zimmerman’s ingratiating apology would relieve one iota of the Martins’ agony. It does, however, indicate a certain frame of mind.
  Some of us flaming liberals out here would be more likely to offer to crawl on our hands and knees from the Martin’s home to the church and then on to the cemetary, doing penance for the sinful and continuing race prejudice evident in this case.
  Not that that would make Martins feel better, but just as a heartfelt though totally inadequate gesture of regret, shame and sorrow.

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By heterochromatic, April 20, 2012 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

damn me, but I’ve done it agin!  gerard 1000 apologies


I saw g@@@@@@@ard and jumped sidewise

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By gerard, April 20, 2012 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment

Hey, hetero:  Where’s you get the “gerard” on that one?

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By heterochromatic, April 20, 2012 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

gerard——had the racial identity of the two involved been reversed the
police would have reacted very differently.
—-

not good to say that without a fair bit of proof.

Report this

By gstoddard, April 20, 2012 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

My heart goes out to Trayvon’s family. While much remains to be determined about
this incident in a court of law, it is apparently a fact that Zimmerman continue to
follow Trayvon after being told not to by the authority involved. It is also apparent
that the local law enforcement dropped the ball seriously. A young man was dead
and the admitted shooter was released without any apparent attempt to ascertain
the facts. Also Trayvon’s body was handled cavalierly and the parents were not
contacted about his death for three days. That is outrageous and leaves one to
conclude that because he was a black teenager his death and his family were denied
humanely compassionate consideration by the authorities.

As others have noted, had the racial identity of the two involved been reversed the
police would have reacted very differently.

Again my heart goes out to family of Trayvon Martin.

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