Thanks, ourbus, for the link.  Shadow Stats appears to be a good source.

Freddy, the ‘true capitalist structure’ IS large firms that dominate the market.  That’s what capitalism evolves into historically.  Now you can say like Inherit that what is called capitalism is not REAL capitalism, that it is Really a form of Socialism, but as the term is used in common meaning, the US is a capitalist economic and power system.

What is curious is that the market system of small firms takes place in China, where much more numerous smaller firms make the steel, cement, etc. Whether or not they are govemerment owned.  Probably because the party does not want big firms threatening its power.

When Deng modified the planning system of Mao, the party leaders were all astonished at the enormous economic response that occurred by loosening administrative restrictions.  they didn’t expect it.  So you are right in the sense that small firms are hungrier and tend to be more economically efficient. 

But this has required in China that the state owns all the land, the banks and about a third of the eocnomy.  This planned-market system is a recent econimic-power innovation historically,not yet a half century old,  and apparently very successful in primitive accumulation.  It has not yet been analyzed well by economists, who mostly in the US are of the liberal and liberterian varieties.

Wow… I’m from the Netherlands and I’m amazed that these numbers are nowhere to be mentioned in the news or newspapers over here.

Some say the recession is over, but I think we’ll have to wait and see what will happen over time…

Any economic system that does not have supervision will degenerate over time.  Just as Marxism degenerated into the unfair Russian system, the Capitalist system has degenerated into the unfair American system.
The greedy are always looking for ways to “game” the system and when we let them do it, those actions will destroy the system over time.
The greedy are necessary for Capitalism to work, but they must be tightly controlled and forced to pay taxes.

Folktruther,

It is the actions of large firms that distort Capitalism. They derive power and influence from their large amounts of capital resources. They use their power to gain tax breaks, subsides and grants, and to impose stifling regulations which their smaller competitors can not comply with, or places an undue or unfair burden on. It gets to the point (where it is now) that they begin to actually create assets out of thin air. This is accomplished by manipulating the Treasury and Federal Reserve. It is also accomplished through rent seeking. In the case of Goldman Sacks, they shuffle money around to the places that they feel it is deserved (risk management). However, they control so much capital, that they can actually flush out the competition by making sure the money doesn’t go to them. Their risk management becomes so complicated and so tight, that it stifles emerging businesses. Nothing meaningful has ever been accomplished without a great amount of risk.
*************************************************

FF, FT, ALWAYS misses the point. It comes from his didactic tunnel vision devotion to a post-Marxist socialism and inability to challenge its fundamental and flawed premises.

What you’ve related can be summarized simply: As Capitalism succeeds, the MOST successful within it then VIOLATE all the Capitalist principles to maintain their wealth and dominance.  THEY ARE NO LONGER CAPITALISTS! 

This is where the cute phrase “Corporate Socialism” comes into play. OBVIOUSLY, they are not Socialist, but they mimic Socialism amongst their small, exclusive, “elite” group, protecting each other, working together, and hiding incompetence.  George W. Bush was a perfect example of such an incompetent propped up by his membership based on his excellent choice of parents who were both elite members of this exclusive group.

This is where PROPER government regulation that throws off corruption and sacks whores like Phil Gram, James Imhofe and John Kyl, to prevent what FF describes.

Capitalism is like a car: No matter how powerful the engine it’s deadly without proper brakes.  Then it’s a useful vehicle.

FT will never be able to understand this.

Folktruther,

I think you missed the point. What you describe does not refute Schumpeter, it merely follows.

These render the capitalist system open to attack from hostile parties

It is the actions of large firms that distort Capitalism. They derive power and influence from their large amounts of capital resources. They use their power to gain tax breaks, subsides and grants, and to impose stifling regulations which their smaller competitors can not comply with, or places an undue or unfair burden on. It gets to the point (where it is now) that they begin to actually create assets out of thin air. This is accomplished by manipulating the Treasury and Federal Reserve. It is also accomplished through rent seeking. In the case of Goldman Sacks, they shuffle money around to the places that they feel it is deserved (risk management). However, they control so much capital, that they can actually flush out the competition by making sure the money doesn’t go to them. Their risk management becomes so complicated and so tight, that it stifles emerging businesses. Nothing meaningful has ever been accomplished without a great amount of risk.

In a true Capitalist structure, firms like GS would not be allowed to exist, or could not exist, not for any length of time. Their own greed and arrogance, and the internal bureaucracy of the firm would create a disconnect. This would allow the smaller firms to chip away at their resources. Sort of like piranhas nipping away at a shark. Sure, pure Capitalism is not pretty, it gets pretty messy. Compared to what? What we have now? It is the small, emerging firms that pioneer innovation, redistribute wealth, and create jobs and prosperity. The government can not create prosperity by printing money, loaning money below true market values, tax breaks to the wealthy, or by giving money (capital resources) to places where it is not deserved after taking it away from where it was earned.

Fat Freddy, November 7 at 9:38 pm #

That would seem to be a good description/model of
exactly what has happened.
Obviously the financial institutions lost all
connection with “reality” and thus became victims of
their own perverted cleverness/fraud.
What I want to know is; when do the prosecutions start?

Actually, the 17.5% is probably a bogus figure also. An
interesting site called Shadowstats.com says it’s
closer to 22% actual. Here, check it out;

http://www.shadowstats.com/

Schumpeter is full of dung.  The owners of capital have become more avericious as their sense of entitlement increases as economic inequality increases, and and their fear of loss of power increses as capitalism proves incapable of functioning historically to provide the needs of the people.

Capitalism is a power system as well as an economic system.  As class inequality increases as capitalism ages, there is a general realization that it has no future.  Half the American children are on food stamps, a million are homeless, only the ruling and professional classes can educate their children effectiely. Prenatal and health care for children sinks releative to more restrictive powers for capitalism.  the children of the unemployed have no sense of financial security and live from hand to mouth.  Competition and violence increase.

To maintain the inequality, lawless violence becomes routine.  The US has the largest prison population in the world.  The US military budget is the largest.  Demonstrations are met with brutality produced with new capitalist innovations, poison gases, tasers, sonic noise devices.  Innovation is increasingly restricted to violence and war.

To disguise the descent into capitalist barbarism, the mainstream truth consensus becomes wildly irrational.  the simple reality-based truth is ideologically repressed.  the economic statistics ae fabricated.  the distrust of the population of capitalist power and the government it has bought increases.  the capitalist system is destroyed by the population, not by the capitalist plutocracy.

But this requires the population to become conscious. a narrative must be produced that can counter the bullshit of the mainstream truth.  It is the evolution of such a population narrative that we arre in the process of producing here.

“As entrepreneurs innovate, they reap economic rewards. Production then expands and new forms of economic organization emerge, such as the modern firm, which grows to capture economic opportunities. As the size of the firm increases, so too does its bureaucracy. The functions of ownership and control gradually separate. Eventually, the owners find that their connection to, and knowledge of, the economic process has been severed. They lose the ability to see the necessity of social institutions, such as private ownership and voluntary contract - institutions without which there would be no economic progress. Isolated from economic reality, their sympathy for the capitalist system begins to wane, and, with it, the social support for the institutions that form the foundation of capitalism. These render the capitalist system open to attack from hostile parties.” - Joseph Schumpeter

Folktruther - The real goal of capitalism is not to advance the needs of humanity as a whole but to advance the needs of a few, which, in turn will, by way of trickling down, advance the needs of humanity as a whole.

The fact that globally and historically this capitalist theory, in practice, has never proven true has not deterred the devotees of the theory from continuing to promote it.  Needless to say, the devotees are the ‘few.’

Even truthdig is following the lead of the NYTimes and becoming more honest about politial and soical eality. but the American mass media still doesn’t tell the truth about the current depression and its long range effects.  This is told by a right wing truther, the appeals judge Posner, in A FAILURE OF CAPITALISM.