Single payer advocates abandoning Obama (although , to be fair its not his bill—he never had one)http://www.singlepayeraction.org/blog/?p=1691

Why Kucinich (and prob others) voted against the corporate bill:http://kucinich.us/index.php

The women haters amendment inserted by the Catholic Bishops (separation of church and state wtf are you???)http://www.truthout.org/content/house-may-vote-tonight-on-historic-health-care-reform-bill

You can buy “abortion insurance” (??) if youre rich enough. I guess Obama girl will have to figure out how to pay for her own reproductive health rights…have Dems figured out that “obama voters” are NOT Dems and just came out to vote cause it was “cool” yet? No…

Another gd corporate bill, courtesy of corporate Dems.

the ever outrageous outraged…...

…By the by, your lie about my claiming “European birth” is still stench hovering over your name whenever I see it. You are not man enough to admit your mistake, but then I never thought you much of one to begin with, so no loss

I havent the faintest notion of what the hell you mean with this Transylvanian widow garbled garbage. ....Your temper is on display here at least as often as is mine..But then fools like you think their own excrement smells fine.

A correction.

My comment, “What would “ardee’s” neighbors say and what about the Transylvanian widow, is she aware of this?”

That should read: What would “ardee’s” neighbors say and what about the Transylvanian widow, is he aware of this?

Of course that’s according to “ardee”......

From Time:

“You did this all without the help from the other side” he said, lambasting the Republicans for doing nothing more than “saying no, stopping progress, gumming up the works….”  ....He wrapped up his speech saying, “I’m absolutely confident we’ll get this done and when I’m in the Rose Garden signing a piece of legislation giving health care to all Americans, we’ll look back at this as our finest moment.” (akin to my perspective)

“Meanwhile, as Obama’s motorcade pulled away from the Hill, protesters on the East lawn were chanting, “Kill the bill.” Republican members including Steve King of Iowa, Michele Bachmann of Minnesota and John Shadegg of Arizona rallied the few hundred Tea Partiers. “The people who want this bill have contempt for freedom,” Shadegg yelled just before heaving a copy of the 1,990-page bill onto the grass before tv cameras and the crowd. “They want to enslave you and take away your freedom and I won’t let them and you won’t let them.” (akin to “ardee’s perspective)

Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/11/07/the-final-push/?xid=rss-topstories#ixzz0WEipWCRr

Thanks Jay Newton-Small, that was most helpful.  Of course, “ardee’s” in complete agreement with Bachmann and spews the same rhetoric as the Taliban… ahem…. some “Europeans”, it just goes to show ya’.  In addition, you’ll get no thanks for making an honest attempt to be helpful to “ardee”.  The vulgarities….tsk, tsk.

It’s one thing to use vulgarities when your cat hawks up a hairball in the middle of your kitchen or when your kid uses a hammer to “tap” something down on the dining room table, but “ardee’s” obviously uncontrolled temper is habitually on display here at TD…..  What would “ardee’s” neighbors say and what about the Transylvanian widow, is she aware of this?

Why this “health insurance reform bill” is worse than nothing: (via Glenn Ford, Black Agenda Report)

http://www.bestcyrano.org/?p=4226&cpage=1#comment-590

“It appears that President Obama will soon achieve his health care triumph – and an unmitigated disaster for the public. “Both Clinton and Obama planned to shanghai the vast bulk of the public as captive consumers of the insurance cartel,” but only Obama could have pulled it off. He is bringing into existence a privatized health care system that will be “nearly impossible to dismantle absent a general political upheaval in the United States.”

“The insurance industry will emerge vastly more powerful, buttressed by newly-created public-private structures.”

We wont be able to dislodge this f*cking idea of a “public option” (ie poor and sick pool) for decades. Shame on the Dems. To hear the Dems debate today, this is ‘historic”—-if this was implemented before 2012, Obama would be a one term president—as it is, I think we will just have a repeat of 1994…

Outraged, November 7 at 3:30 pm

If I could say,“fuck you” in open forum , I would. Sadly I cannot so I wont.

Our current system of governance sucks, not in the framework but in the usurpation of the process by corporate influences. Thus we need a change, you call it a revolution if you wish , but your inference that I follow the politics of Folktruther is patently false and your usual bullshit tactic.

The proposed legislation from the House, which seems to be stalled currently due to lack of votes…read as lack of moral fiber among democrats beholden to health care industry money, still leaves health care in the hands of for-profit industry, thus leaves the payer at the “mercy” of the bottom line.

In order to pass the House they will further water down or make useless the public option, already a joke.

If I could say,“fuck you” in open forum , I would. Sadly I cannot so I wont.

Oh wait I already didnt say that once…By
the by, your lie about my claiming “European birth” is still stench hovering over your name whenever I see it. You are not man enough to admit your mistake, but then I never thought you much of one to begin with, so no loss.

Article quote: ”“Nice try, Rep. Hoyer, but you can’t blame Republicans when the fact is you just don’t have the votes,” shot back Antonia Ferrier, spokeswoman for the GOP leader, Rep. John Boehner of Ohio.”

But startlingly!!!!!!  “GOP leaders boasted that all 177 House Republicans stood ready to oppose the $1.2 trillion bill,

Yes, the Republicans WILL BE BLAMED.  Every last one of them, unless they think the better of it when casting their vote.  The current crop of Republicans DEFINITELY are not your Bob Dole traditional Republicans, from Wiki:

“The Robert J. Dole Institute of Politics, housed on the University of Kansas campus in Lawrence, Kansas, was established to bring bipartisanship back to politics. The Institute, which opened in July 2003 to coincide with Dole’s 80th birthday, has featured such notables as former President Bill Clinton and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani….

....Dole’s legacy also includes a commitment to combating hunger both in the United States and around the globe. In addition to numerous domestic programs, along with former Senator George McGovern (D-South Dakota), he created an international school lunch program through the George McGovern-Robert Dole International Food for Education and Child Nutrition Program, which helps fight child hunger and poverty by providing nutritious meals to children in schools in developing countries. This program has since led to greatly increased global interest in and support for school-feeding programs — which benefit girls and young women, in particular — and won McGovern and Dole the 2008 World Food Prize.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_dole

Part 2.

The main points of the current bill, from Reuters:

* Creates an insurance market exchange where individuals and small businesses would purchase coverage. Sets minimum benefit packages that may be offered through the exchange.

* Creates a new government health insurance plan that would be sold through the exchange.

* Provides for the creation of nonprofit healthcare cooperatives that would sell coverage through the exchange.

* Bars insurers from excluding people for pre-existing conditions and from charging more based on medical history.

* Creates a temporary national high-risk pool program to provide medical coverage to the uninsured, including those with pre-existing conditions who have been denied coverage. The program would operate until the exchange becomes available.

* Permits young people to remain on their parents’ health insurance policy up to the age of 27.

* Provides for consumer rebates if premiums far exceed the cost of covering their medical expenses.

* Sets up a state/federal process under which insurers would have to justify premium increases.

* Eliminates lifetime limits on coverage.
http://www.reuters.com/article/regulatoryNewsHealthcare/idUSN0721489320091107

What are the Republicans doing…. aside from stall tactics, LIES and other debaucheries…?  The American Chronicle:

House Republicans have churned out their latest myths and scare tactics about health insurance reform. In fact, they took time to produce a list of distortions about the Affordable Health Care for America Act before they even released their own ideas….”
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/127567

What are the Republicans offering….., The California Chronicle explains:

“The ideas that House Republican have put forward as a bill substitute will let insurance companies continue to deny you coverage if you are sick; will do little to make insurance more affordable; and will put insurers ahead of consumers by undermining existing consumer protections. The plan would result in millions of Americans losing the coverage and security they currently have, while giving insurance companies more power to discriminate against patients while accumulating record profits.”
http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/view/127466

It’s not a hard choice.  Would you like healthcare when you’re sick or injured or would you rather bled to death and rot away in some Republican ditch?  If the Republicans thought they had a chance they’d have already invested in the earthmovers to dig all those ditches to dispose of the bodies of innocent American Citizens….. men, women and children (even babies, did you hear those stories..!).

Part 1.

Re: Samson

Your comment: “That’s why we are mad at the Democrats”

Who’s “WE”...?  No surprise “ardee” agrees with you though…. 

Re: ardee

Your comment:  “I despair of our current system of governance ever actually passing legislation, comprehensive or otherwise, that actually benefits the majority of Americans.”

Our “current system of government”....?  Are you wanting to over-throw the U.S. government like “Folktruther”?  Not a good plan.  You might want to rethink that “epiphany”.  Also, strange you would consider this legislation despairing, from the BBC:

“The bill will extend coverage to 36m more Americans and provide affordable healthcare to 96%, supporters say.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8348306.stm
(thought I’d give you a “European source”, you know something more “like you”)

About that MEDICARE LIE some are spreading, The Chicago Sun-Times:

“After careful study of the House’s Affordable Health Care for America Act and the Medicare Physician Payment Reform Act, AARP believes that they meet our priorities for protecting Medicare and stopping insurance companies from denying people affordable coverage because of their age.

The legislation also makes coverage more affordable for millions of Americans ages 50 to 64 who struggle to find insurance.”
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/1870415,CST-EDT-open07c.article

The bill should fail. It will make things worse.

To add insult to injury, the Kucinich (and Conyers) and Wiener amendments, which would have, at least , made the spineless take a stand, were dropped (bargained away?) last night. F*ck Dems.

I think Samson makes a valid point in condemning this continuation of ‘for profit’ health care, as it has certainly proven to be far from inclusive, far too expensive and responsible for the deaths of twenty thousand folks annually who simply cannot afford said care.

I despair of our current system of governance ever actually passing legislation, comprehensive or otherwise, that actually benefits the majority of Americans. I further note that his call to refuse to vote for Democrat or Republican seems and obvious answer to both parties refusal to work for us, instead opting to work for corporate money.

This statement:

GOP leaders boasted that all 177 House Republicans stood ready to oppose the $1.2 trillion bill, which would create a new federally supervised insurance marketplace where the uninsured could purchase coverage.

made proudly , unbelievably, flaunts the fact that polls seem to show plainly that the great majority of Americans actually want a public option in any reform attempt.

We expect the Republicans to be awful.

In a forced ‘two-party’ system, we’d also expect the other party to oppose the Republicans, and instead work for ordinary citizens.

Instead, we have a Democratic party that has sold out the American people and who instead backs corporate rule.

That’s why we are mad at the Democrats.  People elected the Democrats to be different. Now, it is plainly and clearly seen that they are not different.  There is no ‘change’ when we elect Democrats.

And when the Democrats sell us out and instead act like Republicans, that means most of the citizens have zero representation in Congress.  Congress right now is just a competition between Democrats and Republicans as to which can sell us out to the corporations fastest.

The answer is to stop electing Democrats. If you think Republicans are awful, then electing Democrats is not the alternative.

Never ever vote for candidates on TV. It costs lots of money to be on TV, and its corporate money that puts them there.  If you see a candidate that can afford a series of TV ads, then its a lock that this politician is not on your side. When elected, they will sell you out to serve the people who gave them the money to buy the TV ads.

Never vote for any candidate that’s on TV.

This disgusting bill needs to die.

A year ago, who would have said that the big problem with American health care was that the health insurance companies didn’t have enough money and needed a half a trillion dollars of government tax credits to send money their way?

Amazingly, that’s what this bunch of corrupt crooks who’ve been bought by the insurance companies have come up with as ‘health care reform’.  Even more amazingly, if you follow the money, its Medicare that’s being cut by $400 billion to pay for this.

And of course, the one aspect of this plan that the Democrats have insisted on since the primaries last year is that they are going to make it illegal for anyone not to buy health insurance.

What a great idea.  Can I get the same treatment for my small company?  It would really help me out if Congress would pass a law requiring everyone to buy my software.  Oh, you say that sort of special treatment only goes to companies that can afford to buy a national political party for about $30 million?  Damn.

This bill stinks.  It stinks to high heaven. Everyone in American needs to get very mad, yell at Congress to stop, start over, and then pass a real health care bill that worries more about giving people real health care instead of worrying about how to maximize health insurance company profits.

And, the word is that these health insurance companies are mad and opposing the bill because they feel the hospital and big pharma companies got even better sweetheart deals from the best Congress money can buy.

If there’s ever been one thing that’s perfectly clear, its that the Democrats are not the answer.  The left absolutely has to withdraw its support from this awful party that only exists to pump our tax money into their corporate contributors accounts.

Quote:  “GOP leaders boasted that all 177 House Republicans stood ready to oppose the $1.2 trillion bill, which would create a new federally supervised insurance marketplace where the uninsured could purchase coverage.”

It seems the GOP has lost it’s way and will wander 40 YEARS in the wilderness.  How stupid do they think people are?

“The bill also would provide for a large expansion of Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor, and eliminate a gap in drug coverage under Medicare.”

This is one of the excellent provisions in this bill.  Sadly, this very same GOP has convinced many of these senile folks that this is “bad” for them.  Don’t we have LAWS against taking advantage of people who are not in control of their faculties…?  Would’t GOOD SAMARITIAN laws apply here…. Seriously….. they are denying the elderly and disabled the benefit of the CARE this law would provide.

Re: LostHills

What moves you to blame Democrats when EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN is saying they will vote against the bill.  You certainly live up to your label.  A ridiculous assertion, a position only a Palin-type would endorse.

Duh…... tell us again how it is LostHills, btw have fun aimlessly wandering.

Politico is reporting that the CRACKPOT wingers apparently aren’t done with Scozzafava yet.  Politico:

“Dede Scozzafava, the Republican nominee who issued an election eve endorsement of Democrat Bill Owens in the Nov. 3 New York special election, will meet with Assembly Minority Leader Brian Kolb Monday to discuss whether she will be stripped of her Assembly leadership position.

....But New York Republican officials are still seething over what they say is a betrayal by the assemblywoman, who did not respond to multiple requests for comment.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29251.html

“We’re very close to giving the insurance companies every thing their corrupt
hearts desire and relegating our party to the political wilderness for the next 40
years.” the Democratic Whip proudly boasted…...