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Ear to the Ground

Team Obama vs. Fox News: Squabblefest 2009 Continues

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Posted on Oct 19, 2009
Axelrod
abcnews.go.com/thisweek

Obama adviser David Axelrod gives an off-camera George Stephanopolous a look of—restrained disdain? Amusement, perhaps?—on ABC’s “This Week” on Sunday.

Key members of the Obama administration have escalated the feud between their camp and Fox News by encouraging other networks to give their right-leaning competitor the cold newsy shoulder, prompting an indignant Karl Rove to remark, via Fox News, that said Obama aides are “going to cut your legs off” if they’re opposed—a curious comment coming from someone still picking pieces of other people’s legs out of his teeth. 

For a less Murdochian take on the matter, click here—KA

Fox News:

White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel told CNN on Sunday that President Obama does not want “the CNNs and the others in the world [to] basically be led in following Fox.”

Obama senior adviser David Axelrod went further by calling on media outlets to join the administration in declaring that Fox is “not a news organization.”

“Other news organizations like yours ought not to treat them that way,” Axelrod counseled ABC’s George Stephanopoulos. “We’re not going to treat them that way.”

[...] Fox News contributor Karl Rove, who was the top political strategist to former President George W. Bush, said: “This is an administration that’s getting very arrogant and slippery in its dealings with people. And if you dare to oppose, they’re going to come hard at you and they’re going to cut your legs off.”

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By ardee, October 22, 2009 at 5:44 am Link to this comment

DBM, October 22 at 12:30 am

You may be correct, and I thank you for the advice. I have, however, always been driven to combat the forces of darkness…perhaps it is because of my addiction to comic books as a child?

We have seen, with the emergence of Karl Rove and his various and lesser clones that post here and elsewhere, a pattern of posting a lie wrapped tightly within some truths, and thus distorting said truths for political gain, at great cost to our nation I fear. I cant help but oppose such practices.

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By DBM, October 21, 2009 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

Do not rise to the bait Ardee ... it just takes things off topic like any troll would wish.

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By ardee, October 21, 2009 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man, October 21 at 9:44 am

Interesting that you do exactly what you accuse me of doing….You certainly are the weakest link..Get lost little boy, at least until you grow up.

DaveZx3, October 20 at 7:48 pm

You ask for proof then diminish it..Why then ask in the first place? Faux Snooze is devious, agendized beyond belief, posts propaganda as news and insists ,as do the several right wing clowns , two of whom posted here, that their own shit doesnt stink…I certainly expect better from you than that moron ‘too right to be believed, and too young to know better’ and ‘@propaganda R us’.....

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By @CT, October 21, 2009 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

“Obama adviser David Axelrod gives an off-camera George Stephanopolous a look of—restrained disdain?...”

It’s a look of grinning menace—the Chicago Way to say the WH is peeved off about losing His ACORN legions.

Meanwhile, will Reuters and RollCall be added to the Obama Org’s condemned list, for reporting that the Obama Org’s using a federal website to gin up fan letters for Der Won?

“a Department of Health and Human Services Web site that urges visitors to send an e-mail to President Barack Obama praising his health care reform plan” Grassley Warns HHS Web Site May Be ‘Propaganda’
http://www.rollcall.com/news/39730-1.html

Senator urges Obama: Don’t start enemies list
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE59K3KO20091021

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By @CT, October 21, 2009 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man writes:
“Another example of how the liberal mind truly cannot stand to hear or see to ANYONE with a different point of view.”

Substitute “Obama-cult” for “liberal” ...

The Obama Org is using Stalinist methods, in furtherance of what one MSNBC talking head—will he be next, after Fox? will Jake Tapper?—calls (probably because the msm isn’t permitted to use the word f-a-s-c-i-s-m in reference to the hijacked Democratic Party’s) “corporate communism”.

The Obama Org (including MoveOn et al., who amassed—like Obama’s “Organizing for America”—huge lists of names during the campaign pretense of “change”), like the Nixon gang before them, is now pushing for state media.

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, October 21, 2009 at 6:44 am Link to this comment

Can anyone give me a clue on this ardee character? I’ve now read several of this small minded idiots posts.

Ardee seems to think any time anyone disagrees with him it must be a lie. I find this to be truly odd.

It’s also not very bright to think the Huffington Post list of “egregious” reporting by FOX is somehow relevant. I could give a thousand examples of mistakes and reporting errors by each of the news organizations around the entire globe. To make such an issue of a single news organization is foolish.

Another example of how the liberal mind truly cannot stand to hear or see to ANYONE with a different point of view.

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By ardee, October 21, 2009 at 3:14 am Link to this comment

Typical of propaganda…a form of lying:

Here’s more crap: the White House has unleashed the bubble-brained groupies at MoveOn*, who are sending out emails (personalized by district, so as to address US Senators and Congressional reps individually).

Now @CT knows what he doesnt know, couldnt possibly know. That MoveOn, which may be silly as he speculates, that is an opinion I actually share having been privy to their formative days when three bored internet millionaires decided to dabble in politics without a clue, is directed by the White House.

In a thread that speaks to the distinctions between opinion and lies I find this an appropos example of actual lying in progress. In my opinion of course.

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By DBM, October 20, 2009 at 11:49 pm Link to this comment

See ... I told you it’s good to have an alternative viewpoint well articulated.

I agree with you entirely that it is necessary to follow-up and question everything that doesn’t seem “right” when you hear it.  I wish more people took the trouble to do so.

However, I disagree that any statement becomes opinion just by sticking “I think” in front of it.  A policy decision (whether to escalate a war or not) can be debated and both sides are opinions.  If I say: “I think the moon is made of green cheese” in a forum where I expect people to be influenced by my thoughts then that is a lie.

All of the examples of lies I listed are lies no matter how you couch them.  The other technique (in addition to “I think…”) is to pose them as questions:  “Does the congressman kill puppies before breakfast every morning?”  If the congressman doesn’t kill puppies then that is a lie.

I have not “saved” any of the points I noted, these are ideas which have been getting a LOT of consideration by people who should have the balls to dismiss them out-of-hand as what they are:  Lies.

As for lies about George Bush ... how about the quote “Some people call you rich and powerful.  I call you my base.”  Yes, he said it but it was a joke.  To omit the fact that he was joking makes it a lie.  There you go…

Mind you, and I cannot help myself, compared to “We do not torture.”, leaving out the joke point is just a fib.  “We do not torture.” [because I’ve defined torture in a new way which the rest of the english speakers in the world don’t know about] ... that’s a LIE!

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By DaveZx3, October 20, 2009 at 11:28 pm Link to this comment

By DBM, October 21 at 12:45 am #

“I’ve got to say, though, that I see a difference between opinion (“I think we should escalate this war”, “I think we should get out of this war.”) and lies (“The proposed health care plan includes plans to withhold health care from dying seniors”, “Water-boarding is not torture”, “The Tea Parties are unsolicited uprisings of concerned citizens”, “George Soros is a self-confessed Nazi collaborator”, “There are valid questions to answer about Obama’s birthplace”)”

You have an advantage over me DBM, you save or remember the lies told by so-called news people.  I started to save the lies told about Bush, but I ran out of disc space and then my computer crashed, so I gave up.  It shouldn’t be hard to find a couple hundred thousand of them though, if I was inclined to waste my time to prove a meaningless point.

Besides, please read again your statement that I pasted above.  The only difference between the two statements you brand as opinion and the later statements you brand as lies, is that the so-called opinions start with the two words, “I think”.  Now start the so-called lie statements with the two words “I think”, and voila, they now become opinion, possibly fringe opinion, maybe a trite inciteful, but opinion none-the-less, and I see nothing that I have not seen a million times before from every news organization.

So I am going to stick with my previous statement: 
“All the news is bullshit.  You get the left bullshit, and you get the right bullshit.  I am not inclined to categorize bullshit by where it happens to splash on the political spectrum”

So now I know I’m getting propaganda (or lies, call it what you wish) and I can act accordingly to protect myself from it, which is to question everything I hear and seek proof if it is something I really need to know to stay informed responsibly.

In a world full of liars, you have to develop a healthy system of discernment.  “I think” it has been well established historically and biblically that one of the endearing characteristics of mankind is that they are all bold, unrepentant, self-serving liars. 

“Read my lips, no new taxes”  “Your president is not a crook”  “I did not have sex with that woman” 
Maybe I will just save lies told by presidents, that way I will at least have a small chance of having the space to house the collection.

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By DBM, October 20, 2009 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

Zx3, I love it when someone with an alternative point of view but who can string a few words together drops in!

I’ve got to say, though, that I see a difference between opinion (“I think we should escalate this war”, “I think we should get out of this war.”) and lies (“The proposed health care plan includes plans to withhold health care from dying seniors”, “Water-boarding is not torture”, “The Tea Parties are unsolicited uprisings of concerned citizens”, “George Soros is a self-confessed Nazi collaborator”, “There are valid questions to answer about Obama’s birthplace”).

I don’t think this is a fine line.  I don’t think this is a fuzzy line.  Fox News is unique in it’s propensity to tell out-right lies.  Others may do so “by mistake” (Judith Miller in the NY Times reporting that Iraq had WMD) but they are embarrassed and at least tell you they’re trying to avoid it.  On Fox you get ludicrous lies like “Obama is a racist who hates white people” ... even when followed by “I’m not saying Obama hates white people” that takes a level of gall you won’t find elsewhere.

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By @CT, October 20, 2009 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

DaveZx3 writes:
“I never heard of such crap as a White House Chief of Staff going out to news channels to tell them not to be this way or that way.  That is way out of bounds.”

The Oblabla Org gangsters are a tiresome embarrassment.

Here’s more crap: the White House has unleashed the bubble-brained groupies at MoveOn*, who are sending out emails (personalized by district, so as to address US Senators and Congressional reps individually).

To “suggest” to MoveOn.org that they’re full of it, or whatever, use the contact form at
http://pol.moveon.org/feedback/fb/form.html?tp=suggest

Here’s the beginning of the appeal as posted online:

“Stay off FOX
To draw attention to its biased coverage, President Obama will not appear on FOX for the rest of this year. Can you ask Democrats to support President Obama’s stance by staying off FOX as long as he does?”

Now these Stalinistas have decreed not only that other news outlets aren’t allowed to play with Fox, but that those elected to represent the fed-up people are being pressured not to.

If this kind of Congressional coercion by the WHite House isn’t against the law*, it oughtta be.

Instead of running Mob plays on the press—this ain’t Afghanistan, after all, or Romania—Obama should ... take His pretty little head out from under His little dove wing ... and resign.
——-
* “MoveOn.org Civic Action is a 501(c)(4) organization which primarily focuses on nonpartisan education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn.org Political Action is a federal political committee which primarily helps members elect candidates who reflect our values through a variety of activities aimed at influencing the outcome of the next election. MoveOn.org Political Action and MoveOn.org Civic Action are separate [<i>hahaha<>]organizations.”

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By DaveZx3, October 20, 2009 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

ardee, October 20 at 4:05 pm #

First off, I am really not that bright.  I got caught up in all these absurd opinion sites lately, (which are the invention of our masters to let us think we have freedom of expression), so how bright can I be? 

Second, all the news is bullshit.  You get the left bullshit, and you get the right bullshit.  I am not inclined to categorize bullshit by where it happens to splash on the political spectrum, it is all the same to me. 

Third, Fox tells the news like MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS - badly.  Historically, media has been left of center, but Fox broke out on the right side, and ain’t everybody pissed over that.  My God, close them down, quick before they spread like cancer. 

Fourth, I never heard of such crap as a White House Chief of Staff going out to news channels to tell them not to be this way or that way.  That is way out of bounds.

Fifth, your huffington post site is nothing new to me.  I saw it all already and yawned through the whole thing.  If you want, I will put together some real media bias clips from the 60’s. 

Media has been biased since Cronkite, and it has been getting worse and worse.  At least we all know who the players are so we can count it all as a grain of sand. 

My real amazement is that people lie, cheat and steal, and then when someone does it to them, they get indignant, as though there is supposed to be some justice in the world. 

THERE NO JUSTICE, AND THERE IS NO TRUTH. 

So tell the White House to grow up, like every other administration has had to, and deal with the press like a professional.  Fox is here to stay, and they have tons of viewers, so if I was Rahm and Dave, I would go back to the office and try to deliver the performance and transparency that was promised during the campaign, not run around blaming fox because the white house has absolutely no clue what its doing. 

This media thing is just a diversion to take the heat off a bunch of Chicago thugs that are in way over their head and are not on track to have one meaningful accomplishment for this whole four years.

and thanks again for filling me in on MarthaG and ThomasA, or was it MarthaC and ThomasB.  You know!!

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By 298773, October 20, 2009 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Anybody notice how Fox has opaqued their windows to the street?  They know their propagandistic lying is growing thin.  The few windows that aren’t opaque are actually on the walkway inbetween buildings, i.e., private property they can control.  Fox News (sic) is obviously afraid of the American people.

Check it out for yourself, 48th St. and 6th Ave.

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By ardee, October 20, 2009 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

DaveZx3, October 20 at 10:07 am #


ardee,

I respect your opinion, ardee.  But if you are going to change mine, you have to give me something to go on. 

**********************************************

You post as if you are a bright guy, yet anyone watching Faux Snooze with an open mind has gotta notice….Heres a bit to start you off…..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/20/the-ten-most-egregious-fo_n_327140.html

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By @CT, October 20, 2009 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

It’s kind of interesting that ABC takes the White House’s attempted info-grab more seriously:

“Tapper [to Robert Gibbs, today]:
It’s escaped none of our notice that the White House has decided in the last few weeks to declare one of our sister organizations “not a news organization” and to tell the rest of us not to treat them like a news organization. Can you explain why it’s appropriate for the White House to decide that a news organization is not one – “
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/10/todays-qs-for-os-wh-10202009.html

(Part of a representative comment to the above:
“This line by the White House against any news organization is something one would expect from a banana republic like Venezeula and Chavez or some other oppressive government in the former USSR (or current Russia).

Shame on Obama for trying to stop any non-glowing news about him.”)

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By @CT, October 20, 2009 at 8:02 am Link to this comment

That TruthDig minimizes this subject as “Squabblefest 2009” is a somewhat-scary disappointment.

Those who managed to trip over press accounts at the time will remember that intimidating unworshipful local media in Missouri—with off-duty cops, no less—was a feature of the Obama Org’s efforts during the primaries.

Meanwhile, the truth doesn’t care who tells it—the Obama Org is “arrogant and slippery”.

Empowering a crowd of pseudo-Democratic mobsters to out-Bush Cheney-Bush in every area wasn’t exactly the “change” those who voted to install Obama had in mind. When these Blue Dog poseurs reap the well-earned whirlwind, nobody’s gonna be sorry.

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By DaveZx3, October 20, 2009 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

ardee,

I respect your opinion, ardee.  But if you are going to change mine, you have to give me something to go on. 

I am only commenting on this Fox News story right now, so put some meat on your opinion and let me know which stories broken by Fox, over the past few months, consisted of lies, distortions and inventions.  I am not fanatical, and I can be swayed.

But if the Governor of my state came out and said he was going to start torturing the prisoners in the county jails, people would pour out on to the streets and it would be a gigantic news story. 

Americans apparently do not like torture, it seems.  Brutal dictatorships, such as the communist Chinese have resorted to severe torture techniques.  (I know because I learned about it when I went to survival school as a member of a USAF reconnaisance aircrew in the 1960’s) Americans wish to refrain from such low-life tactics, and I am not going to criticize that stand. 

Then why is it, when WH Communications Director, Anita Dunn, says one of her favorite political philosophers, one she turns to all the time, is the leader of that brutal Chinese government, is that not a news story?  The questions that I have after hearing her statement are too many to list.  But just imagine what some of them might be?  This is the thing of gigantic news stories. 

What network broke the story?  Fox.  Why did the networks that have other political leanings not report the story.  Because they lean to the left and Fox leans to the right. 

Seems fairly obvious to me.  If you are going to stay informed, you can’t get all your news about a leftist government from a left leaning news network.  They will probably only report the good things. 

So Fox does their thing, and fulfills their obligations to the American public to attempt to apply balance, and life goes on.  And they get massive amounts of viewers because they are not afraid to break a big story. 

But if you have any examples of lies, distortion or inventions from Fox or any other news networks, then that itself is a story which could change my mind about Fox or anyone else.

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By Tom Semioli, October 20, 2009 at 6:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Seems like we’re just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic here…

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By Go Right Young Man, October 20, 2009 at 6:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I see the Obama administration is complaining about FOX News. I have to say I don’t blame the White House one bit. I can hardly watch FOX (the opinion side) these days. I also can’t watch much of MSNBC. Both news organizations appear to be all about pushing an agenda. Of course NBC, ABC and CBS has been doing the same for decades.

It’s fascinating to listen to self proclaimed “progressives” talk about FOX. There is true, and barely disguised, hatred for FOX News. When I ask my liberal friends if they believe the elite media leans toward the Left they almost all say no. But when I ask why they hate, yes hate, FOX so much the answer is always the same. “FOX News leans Right.”

I have said it for years. The Left can’t stand different points of view. When a different point of view is presented the “open minded progressives” loose their heads and try everything possible to shut or shout it down. The Democratic controlled Congress is still trying to shut down conservative talk radio.

I’ve witnessed it for years. The Left, the “open minded thinkers”, simply can’t stand it when someone displays a different point of view. They literally loose their minds. They literally work up a profound and debilitating hatred for all unlike themselves.

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By ardee, October 20, 2009 at 5:01 am Link to this comment

DaveZx3, October 20 at 7:34 am

For cripes sake, Zx3, its long past time for someone, anyone, to stand up to the lies, distortions and inventions of the right wing media.

They are certainly free to fire back.

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By DaveZx3, October 20, 2009 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

It is a very sad commentary on the American people that a news network is faulted for being opinionated.  Cronkite was opinionated in the Vietnam era, Rather was opinionated, MSNBC is opinionated, ABC is opinionated.  You can see the opinions in every network.  That’s why they are usually billed as “news and commentary” or “talk show”, because it is about not only what’s happening, but what peoople think about it.  If you want a broad spectrum of opinion, then watch a lot of different networks and shows, that is how you become informed. 

In America it is o.k. to have an opinion.  And there is an obligation in America to participate in the system and be involved. 

If our government followed the Chinese and decided to kill all babies of a certain sex, every man woman and child would be in the street protesting.  So there is a limit to how far we allow our government to go.  That limit is different in the mind of each individual according to our political persuasion.

When people poured into the street over Vietnam, it was a sign for the government to get out.  When people crucified Nixon over Watergate, it was a sign for him to resign.  When the original tea party guys threw the tea in the Boston Harbor, it was a sign for Great Britain to stop the oppression.

Do you think any of these people who protested were committing illegal or immoral acts?  Maybe some of them did if their enthusiasm spilled over into violence, but in general, they were patriots all, even if they got it wrong.  Our obligation is to speak out when we see corruption in government or business.  Or if we see government going in a direction we do not like or policies we do not like.  Voice your opinion by writing your representatives or by providing good ratings to the commentary shows that agree with your opinion. 

Obviously, the reason that a huge chunk of viewers are moving to Fox news is because the viewers sense that things are heading out of the mainstream, and they go to the network that is reporting it.

It was not wrong for Fox to report that Anita Dunn likes Chairman Mao.  It was not spin or innuendo or lies.  It was clear as hell right in a taped speech that she gave.  The problem is not the network that reports the Acorn activity, the Van Jones activity, the Anita Dunn activity, the Charlie Rangel activity,the Richard Nixon activity, the Bill Clinton activity, etc, etc, etc.  The problem is the activity itself. 

If it was not newsworthy, it would not have created the storm that it did and the viewers would not have pumped up the Fox ratings listening to those stories.

This is America, folks, this is how it works.  And it always has.  There is nothing anyone can do about these realities.  If government tries to control the media, all we would have is another Chavez or Castro.  You cannot ask reporters to shut up and not report what they think might be news just because it might be embarassing or devisive.  It is up to the politician to not do anything embarassing or devisive. 

Fox is a threat because they break the stories, and since I am not ready to turn into another Cuba or Venezuela, I have no problem with that, regardless of my political persuasion.

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By Andrew T. Barefoot, October 20, 2009 at 3:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

right out of Hugo Chavez’s Playbook.
what did you expect of this communist?
Every time Mr. Obama’s mouth opens he lying again.
It’s like listening to Yasir Arafat.
THIS ADMIN IS THE ENEMY Of THE PEOPLE.
  Wise up, or get use to it.

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de profundis clamavi's avatar

By de profundis clamavi, October 19, 2009 at 10:27 pm Link to this comment

Is Planet Obama is at last manifesting signs of harboring intelligent life? Took them long enough. Maybe they’ve figured out that the millions of people who voted to elect BHO were not voting for “bipartisanship”; we thought we were voting for “change”.

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By JimM, October 19, 2009 at 7:42 pm Link to this comment

We need to give the man a chance. Bush admin has done extensive damage to us in many ways. The dude is trying so cut him and break and for the cynical, I say lighten up and help out as much as possible by supporting progressive causes.

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By golady, October 19, 2009 at 4:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I for one am glad to see someone go after FOX.  People who live north of the Mason-Dixson line have no idea how madding it is to go to the doctor, dentist, out to eat, or to physical therapy and have to listen to the lies, innuendos, and spin,  spewed by FOX and company.  Many of the establishments will not turn it off even when you ask them.  I just wish the Obama administration had called them what they are:  Liars!! Evereyone should call them liars every time they lie.  That would be daily.  Instead of criticising the Obama Administration for going after them, the rest of us should join them and stamp out this scruge. Why not help stamp out “in your face”  “bold Black”  lies and liars, For heaven sakes don’t start attacking them for doing what everyone should be doing.

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By DaveZx3, October 19, 2009 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

Wow!!  Another one of my really favorite stories. 

I love the part where that sexy looking Anita Dunn tells the religious high school kids that Mao was one of the two people she turns to the most. 

The ObamaRama team had to be dispatched immediately to catch up on their payments to the network news.  They were afraid that if they fell behind on their payments, Anita might make guest appearances there as well as Fox. 

Team Rama should not have worried, because if Anita showed up in her film clip at every non-Fox news channel only six additional human beings would have seen it anyway.  They could have saved a lot of taxpayer money.  Oh, I forgot, they have trillions to spend.

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By @CT, October 19, 2009 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

Just imagine the public reaction if, say, Bush and Rove had pulled similar crappola while MSNBC and CNN—the good little cable channel that fact-checked a freaking comedy sketch, for heaven’s sweet sake!—were um bending the reality curve to the point of breaking, first to nominate, then to “elect”, Oblabla.

What are these prissy sissies up to, anyway? If Oblabla’s under the misapprehension that He’s Hugo Chavez, maybe He should nationalize the banks and medical corporations, deliver the SSI COLAs, declare Single Payer, and end the military assaults on Great Otherwhere . . .

Bush—unlike Cheney—was hard to hate, even if he was an idiot, because he was funny, and kind of charming. Oblabla and his several seconds are seeming like ... the Nixon administration ...

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By @CT, October 19, 2009 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

“The Obama administration really needs to get over itself.”
Obama vs. Media Critics: Stop Whining
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/13/opinion/main5381640.shtml

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