You have hit the nail squarely on the head, adapt or die out has been the rule
since life began.  It is possible for us to adapt but it is likely that only mutants
will make the cut. Evolution is not about the established genes, it is about the
few mutations that survive. There are some things that we can do to improve
our chances, I believe that my island is one of these things. I would like to
have a few thousand people from all races living in the deep ocean with us. As
an old time farmer I know the value of mixed breeds as opposed to purebreds.
I figure that anyone bright and strong enough to take the chance of surviving
on the open sea deserves the chance.  Labor and materials will be acceptable
trade items to acquire a self sufficient homestead island on the ocean. 

“We have met the enemy and he is us” Pogo

It is in our genes, from an evolutionary stand point it is still working but it could fail tomorrow. The trilobites were among the most successful of life on earth. Survived two extinction events but not the third. You find them well represented in the fossil record. Very adaptable and showed it by the myriad of species that have been found. From the smallest to the largest, but the change came that they couldn’t cope with. We could be reaching that state. With nearly 7 billion we could still die out in 100 years if we mess it up and can’t adapt to radical changes in our environment. Ones created by ourselves and believing in a god(s) just might not be enough.

Sadly the god meme has more power than logic does.

That sums up the motivations based upon the religious idea that their god picked them to be the best on earth and therefor deserve whatever they take in the name of that god. They won’t stop until they are stopped.

Americans believe in ‘manifest destiny’ they have expanded it to cover the
entire planet.

Guns Germs and Steel—Been there, done that.  Maybe you should do a little more research than reading a book written for the layperson.  Nevertheless, how have I contradicted its conclusions?

By zephyr, October 12 at 12:56 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

“G"utless “W"itless Hitler, maybe it’s time for your sick Social Darwinian philosophies to become extinct.

you need to read “Guns Germs and Steel” you gutless, witless little Hitler.

“They took us to the White House, and the President shook us by the hand. And he told us, ‘Always remember to endeavor to perservere. And we went home, and we thought on that a long time. Long time. ‘Endeavor to perservere.’

And when we had thought on it long enough, we declared war on the white man.”—Chief Lone Wattie

Why can’t you be more eloquent and civilized like Chief Wattie?  And if Apache is the “wrong kind of Indian moron”, will you please tell me what the right kind of Indian moron is?  Is it you?  This whole notion of Indian morons is new to me.  Is it epidemic among the tribes?  Please tell me more about this sickness.  OMG!  Did Mongols launch morons over the walls of your village?  And your people, having no natural immunity, rapidly descended into moronity?  Bless your hearts.

By stcfarms, October 13 at 2:19 pm #

I do not drink, it spoils the aim. Wrong kind of Indian moron, kema sah beh is Apache. I am not your good scout, I am your worst nightmare. Erus ka da
wanke day (a warrior walks among you) should be your concern now. You should look me up, the element of surprise is your only chance to back up your ignorant mouth.

I do not drink, it spoils the aim. Wrong kind of Indian moron, kema sah beh is
Apache. I am not your good scout, I am your worst nightmare. Erus ka da
wanke day (a warrior walks among you) should be your concern now. You
should look me up, the element of surprise is your only chance to back up
your ignorant mouth.

By “G"utless “W"itless Hitler, October 13 at 1:01 pm #

You should lay off the firewater, kemo sabe.

Thanks, Xntrk, for your comment. Recently (Oct 10) El País (from Spain) interviewed Eduardo Galeano. http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cultura/venas/America/Latina/todavia/siguen/abiertas/elpepicul/20091006elpepicul_3/Tes
As the title says “Las venas de América Latina todavía siguen abiertas” (Latin America’s veins are still opened.)
There are lots of books in Spanish and Portuguese about Latin America, but educated Anglo-Saxons like Obama are mostly monolinguals. Also recently the Latin American Council for Social Science (CLACSO) published a book called Procesos de urbanización de la pobreza y nuevas formas de exclusión social (Processes in urbanizing poverty and new ways for social exclusion). You can download the whole book here: http://bibliotecavirtual.clacso.org.ar/ar/libros/clacso/crop/ziccardi/
?Alicia Ziccardi’s introduction Pobreza y exclusión social en las ciudades del siglo XXI (Poverty and social exclusion in XXI century cities) is a compendium of the whole book.

You should lay off the firewater, kemo sabe.

By stcfarms, October 12 at 5:32 pm #

It would be wise to remember that we child like Indians now have all of the knowledge of the invaders without the baggage of a kind loving god to stay our hands. If you are representative of the intellectual capacity of the white race then taking back America should be a piece of cake…

Are you suggesting that European sea captains were transporting known plague sufferers to the New World with the express purpose of wiping out the native inhabitants with disease? 

And for the record, Biological warfare began much earlier than 1346.  Ever heard of throwing a dead animal in a well?  How about dipping arrows in feces?  Those tricks have been around for quite some time.

By stcfarms, October 13 at 10:52 am #

Biological warfare began at the 1346 Siege of Caffa when the mongols launched plague victims over the walls. The tactic was used many times after that as it was a very effective form of warfare.

Biological warfare began at the 1346 Siege of Caffa when the mongols
launched plague victims over the walls. The tactic was used many times after
that as it was a very effective form of warfare.

By “G"utless “W"itless Hitler, October 13 at 10:32 am #

stcfarms wrote:

“You are a real piece of work. I have been working on ecology for years, I will
now switch my efforts to pathology, you have convinced me of the need.”

I hope you take care to note that I was responding to Shift’s ridiculous
assertion that European sea captains were guilty of genocide.

Actually there is reasonable documentation of cases of germ warfare being used by Europeans. Here’s one example:

“In 1763 the British used blankets exposed to smallpox as germ warfare in their attempt to subdue the Indian uprising led by PONTIAC.” http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0007462

There are others, but I suspect that introducing further historical evidence will only increase the volume of the witless, so I’ll leave it at that.

stcfarms wrote:

“You are a real piece of work. I have been working on ecology for years, I will now switch my efforts to pathology, you have convinced me of the need.”

I hope you take care to note that I was responding to Shift’s ridiculous assertion that European sea captains were guilty of genocide.

You are a real piece of work. I have been working on ecology for years, I will
now switch my efforts to pathology, you have convinced me of the need.

By “G"utless “W"itless Hitler, October 13 at 9:26 am #

Native Americans are just as guilty of spreading disease as are European sea
captains.  Certainly, the natives figured out rather quickly that a poxy boil-
covered indian was sick and likely to spread that sickness to others.  Yet, they
continued to have contact with other tribes, negligently spreading disease to
farther-removed groups that had never encountered a white man.  Those
genocidal bastards!

“Actually the spread of disease was purposeful.  Sea Captains knew that the presence of Europeans caused disease among large numbers of American Indians, yet they continued to come here offloading ever greater numbers of people.  That is not incidental but purposeful and qualifies as genocide.”—Shift

Is that the best you can do?  Because I gotta tell ya, that’s one of stupidest things I’ve ever read here at Truthdig.  First of all, your argument assumes that sea captains knew their passengers were diseased.  Were that the case, they absolutely would not have allowed the diseased individuals passage on their ships.  Either that or you’re saying that sea captains of the 15th and 16th centuries just knew that ostensibly healthy individuals were nevertheless carriers of epidemic diseases.  Remarkable!  I never realized that sea captains had such an advanced understanding of microscopic pathogens!  And an understanding that predated the general acceptance of the germ theory of disease by several hundred years no less!

But let’s assume you are correct.  By your logic then, Native Americans are just as guilty of spreading disease as are European sea captains.  Certainly, the natives figured out rather quickly that a poxy boil-covered indian was sick and likely to spread that sickness to others.  Yet, they continued to have contact with other tribes, negligently spreading disease to farther-removed groups that had never encountered a white man.  Those genocidal bastards!

By “G"utless “W"itless Hitler, October 12 at 4:36 pm #
“The enormous decline in the Native American population was due to the spread of disease, which was largely incidental. “

Actually the spread of disease was purposeful.  Sea Captains knew that the presence of Europeans caused disease among large numbers of American Indians, yet they continued to come here offloading ever greater numbers of people.  That is not incidental but purposeful and qualifies as genocide.

Nothing like reading a bunch of Euro-centric Anglo-Saxons praise and excuse the rape and pillage of the Americas. Except for Manuel, who does not fit the pattern.

I too am an Anglo-Saxon, but somehow, I acquired the ability to read and comprehend many things I wasn’t taught in school.

For a better understanding of this subject, I would recommend Eduardo Galeano’s Open Veins of Latin America. That is the book Chavez handed to Obama at the OAS meeting. If Obama read it at all, I think it only enlarged his visions of conquest, as the bases in Columbia and the Coup in Honduras all occured after that. NAFTA and the War on Drugs will continue into the next millennium, of course…

Anyway, after you read Open Veins, start in on Galeano’s Memory of Fire trilogy. It is a fascinating history, starting with some of the Creation Myths, to Columbus and on. It includes both the Americas, and presents a totally different from anything I’ve read before, including Howard Zinn, and the best seller, 1491.

It never hurts to read about things from a different point of view then you are used to. Who knows? Knowledge may be gained. The world won’t appear so simplistic as it does if you stopped learning any American History in the 6th Grade, but that may be a good thing…

Yes, yes. You people call yourselves Americans. Honoring who? You, so called Americans called this day “Columbus Day”. You are the only ones in this planet calling this day “Columbus Day”. Not even Spain uses that name, neither us Hispanic Americans! What we celebrate is not that man but, even the wrongs and evils, that we are here in this side of the Plant called “America” (not only your country but the whole continent). By the way, why did you confiscated that name leaving the rest of the continent out?

It would be wise to remember that we child like Indians now have all of the
knowledge of the invaders without the baggage of a kind loving god to stay
our hands. If you are representative of the intellectual capacity of the white
race then taking back America should be a piece of cake…

By “G"utless “W"itless Hitler, October 12 at 4:36 pm #

Oh Lordy, these sho’ nuff the end times now, boss!  Big Bad Ol’ Unkie Sam jus
don’t know his own strength.  Wid great power come dat dare great
responsibility, eh Shift?  So I guess if we did a technological presto change-O
and gave the injuns guns and steel in 1492, we wouldn’t be in this mess right
now.  They would have consulted the Great Spirit, Coyote, and Raven, who
would have advised them to walk the path of peace.  They would have sailed to
the Old World (which, of course, now would be referred to as the New World)
with gifts of bear grease and tobacky.  They would have shown great restraint
when dealing with the backward Spanish and the stinky French.  And
prefiguring all the future strife in the region, they would have set up a league
of nations to help the childlike Europeans with governing themselves.  And
lo!  The peace pipes burned long into the night.  And the primitive Europeans,
seeing the error of their ways, cast off the yoke of Christianity and embraced
the Great Spirit and Coyote, and Raven.  Then they all had pie.

“The above statement demonstrates the shallowness of America’s understanding of what actually took place after Colombus.  Native Americans engaged in battles with other Native Americans, primarily for hunting ground.  The killings were nominal in most cases and there was NO planned genocide, the systematic elimination of a people.”—Shift

What a crock!  Once one tribe had access to European weapons, it exacted the full measure of vengeance on its ancestral enemies provided they were not similarly armed.  The squabbles over hunting grounds were nominal only because there was a balance of power.  Once a tribe gained a distinct advantage, it exploited it to the fullest. 

“Europeans did commit genocide here and it was orchestrated and systematic.  Thomas Jefferson was the architect of Indian removal (death).  Estimates by modern science puts the numbers of Native American Deaths at over one hundred million.”—Shift

Again, what a CROCK!!  You’re either naive or disingenuous.  The enormous decline in the Native American population was due to the spread of disease, which was largely incidental.  For the most part, the spread of disease was not orchestrated and systematic.  In fact, it was usually due to secondary contact, passing from Indian to Indian.  After de Soto’s Entrada, no serious penetration into the interior of the American South occurred until the 1700s.  Nevertheless, epidemics wiped out many areas because of contact with second or third party native intermediaries.

“America has neither lived up to it’s treaties or apologized for driving the greatest genocide in the world over the last five hundred years.  America believes to this very day that it was their Manifest Destiny.  It takes little imagination to see that the same belief in Manifest Destiny is in play today for World domination, after all, we have over one thousand foreign military bases across the globe.  This time however, with weapons of mass destruction of many different kinds available and cheaply produced, does anyone really believe that humanity will survive such a war in anything other than a savage condition?  America’s messianic beliefs have the capacity to destroy humanity.  Howard Zinn shows no wisdom in concluding not to confront our history.  The above poster shows how easily American’s will follow the pied piper to the final conflagration.”—Shift

Oh Lordy, these sho’ nuff the end times now, boss!  Big Bad Ol’ Unkie Sam jus don’t know his own strength.  Wid great power come dat dare great responsibility, eh Shift?  So I guess if we did a technological presto change-O and gave the injuns guns and steel in 1492, we wouldn’t be in this mess right now.  They would have consulted the Great Spirit, Coyote, and Raven, who would have advised them to walk the path of peace.  They would have sailed to the Old World (which, of course, now would be referred to as the New World) with gifts of bear grease and tobacky.  They would have shown great restraint when dealing with the backward Spanish and the stinky French.  And prefiguring all the future strife in the region, they would have set up a league of nations to help the childlike Europeans with governing themselves.  And lo!  The peace pipes burned long into the night.  And the primitive Europeans, seeing the error of their ways, cast off the yoke of Christianity and embraced the Great Spirit and Coyote, and Raven.  Then they all had pie.

to timmy,

Yeah, he crossed an ocean—so did many before him in lesser boats.  No accomplishment there for Chris. I used Al, Nap, and others for example—not literal translation. However, they were basically war mongerers and nation builders with egos centered for history.

Preferably in the Hamptons or Wall St. or at the various mines that have oil or uranium.

Perhaps the only fair solution would be to return all government and corporate
land to the tribes and allow non Indians to each keep up to ten acres of land.
The land given to city folk would come from the monoculture mega farms.

Columbus deserves respect and recognition because he got off his ass and crossed an ocean.  There are not many in human history who do this.  It is somewhat exceptional behavior you must admit.  You can at least grant qualified, grudging respect for that. 

And Alexander is a hero to most.  And I think Napoleon is largely respected in France.  It just comes down to what aspect of a person you choose to place emphasis.

Actually the time line would split, you would go back to your own time and it would remain the same. The other would be so altered. [You would need different equipment to reach that parallel.] So ends the problem of the Grandfather Paradox. Is your thesis on line, Montanawildhack?

But must we honor him and mischaracterize him? No. History must be taught with all of its elements. All the beautiful and ugly things. Remember in 1491 the Jews were told to convert or leave. They had lived amicably with the Moors until then. Some left, others went underground.

If they want to honor him then use the Spanish flag of his time. Otherwise it isn’t an honor. Christopher Colombo was Spanish or was it something else? Some debate over that even now. We might as well honor Leif Ericson too. Even the Knights Templar!

I don’t abuse, I recognize. If Columbus was “accomplished” it was for slave labor, gold mining, and the spreading of disease. I do not celebrate Alexander Day, Attila Day, Napolean Day, or Hitler Day. While they were all “acomplished” in their way, their “works” hardly merit celebration.

Columbus didn’t discover shit except how to tow millions in stolen gold back to Spain. He was at best a good thief. 

I do not ask that we judge their actions by today’s standards (although even for their standards genocide for gold was pretty low), I ask that we use OUR standards to judge whether or not to celebrate a bad example in history. Not to mention telling our youth the truth of what really happened in history as opposed to sugar coating it, white-washing it, or out and out lying about it.

I would have greater respect for anyone who currently resides in North America or South America for that matter who is not of Native American origin who would just pack up and leave and go back to Europe.  But no one will because ecnomic reality prevents them from doing so even if they were so inclined. 

Economic reality drives everything.  It might help if people think of the European conquest of American in terms of being just another historical migration driven by economic reality such as has happened throughout history, and continues to happen to this day.

If you went back to Europe you might well ask where are the Romans?  Well they got replaced by the Germanic tribes.  Where are the Celts?  Well they got replaced by the Romans.  If you wish to take this back even further then please check Wikipedia and then come to understand how abusrd your abuse of Columbus really is.

Hey, Timmy, you’re right, you can’t change history’s truths or morals, but you don’t have to celebrate the heinous happenings either. I guess you could say that, starting in 1968 we started to understand what was worth celebrating and what not. And if think Columbus was an “accomplished individual” I guess Hitler was a Saint.

to shift…do not waste your time on such as gutless witless hitler. Posters like that go for the shock aspect, not the discourse aspect of what I call “blind communication”. Which is what blog talking really is. I wonder if witless, gutless, hitler would have the balls to say such a thing in the midst of a group of Native People.

And for those who say, “Hey, not my fault,” I say this, “Yes it is, as long as the truth goes mainly unrecognized.”

Work hard for your innocence—it’s the least you can do.

Where in the world could you point to in 1492 to where people treated each other any better?  The Spaniards were efficient killers as a result of spending the previous 700 years throwing the Muslims out of Spain.  It is idiotic to go back and try to tear down every accomplished individual throughout history because he failed to observe the standards we now accept as ‘normal’ in our own day given the circumstances we live in.  All you can reasonably do is judge the individual given what was normal at the time.  Slavery and indiscriminate slaughter were normal throughout the world at the time.  You may as well just burn all the history books and declare that history begins in 1968 if you can’t deal with that fact.

By “G"utless “W"itless Hitler, October 12 at 12:21 pm #

“I don’t see what the big deal is.  Native Americans stole land from other Native Americans throughout prehistory and history.  It’s not like all Native Americans just appeared in the North America at the same time and stayed in the same place until whitey showed up.  Is it our fault that the white tribes were a lot better at conquering than the red tribes?”

The above statement demonstrates the shallowness of America’s understanding of what actually took place after Colombus.  Native Americans engaged in battles with other Native Americans, primarily for hunting ground.  The killings were nominal in most cases and there was NO planned genocide, the systematic elimination of a people.

Europeans did commit genocide here and it was orchestrated and systematic.  Thomas Jefferson was the architect of Indian removal (death).  Estimates by modern science puts the numbers of Native American Deaths at over one hundred million. 

The Catholic Church issued the Papal Bull Inter Caetera freeing European Christians to take lands across the globe and to kill the inhabitants as if they were animals in the woods, for a cut of the loot of course.  The Church was then and is today complicit in Western expansionism. 

America has neither lived up to it’s treaties or apologized for driving the greatest genocide in the world over the last five hundred years.  America believes to this very day that it was their Manifest Destiny.  It takes little imagination to see that the same belief in Manifest Destiny is in play today for World domination, after all, we have over one thousand foreign military bases across the globe.  This time however, with weapons of mass destruction of many different kinds available and cheaply produced, does anyone really believe that humanity will survive such a war in anything other than a savage condition?  America’s messianic beliefs have the capacity to destroy humanity.  Howard Zinn shows no wisdom in concluding not to confront our history.  The above poster shows how easily American’s will follow the pied piper to the final conflagration.

I don’t see what the big deal is.  Native Americans stole land from other Native Americans throughout prehistory and history.  It’s not like all Native Americans just appeared in the North America at the same time and stayed in the same place until whitey showed up.  Is it our fault that the white tribes were a lot better at conquering than the red tribes?  You see this everywhere the indigenes lack a strong central government.  See the British in India and and the Middle East.  See the British, Germans and Dutch all over Africa.  See the Spanish, Dutch, French, and English in the New World.

Cultures are not created equal.  Some go extinct whether they deserve to or not.  And some folks would say that if a culture refuses to adapt, it deserves to go bye bye.

Let’s not forget Cortez and Pizarro.

Great article, and it is absolutely absurd to (still) give such a vile, racist, obtuse individual a holiday! The facts clearly show that the very essence of any recognition of (except him being evil)Columbus is a blight on our country.

To continually refer to this “stat holiday” a Columbus day, clearly shows that there is still “much to do, and we as a country/people still have a ways to go in perfecting our union.”

No real christian can get into heaven while they occupy stolen Indian land…

Shift, October 12 at 8:09 am #

Nice post!
What chance does a society have when even the history
they are taught is a lie? Even as an atheist I say; god
help us! Surely, nobody else can.

montanawildhack, October 12 at 7:54 am #

Well, you gave me my second belly laugh of the evening.
Thanks.

“But I know it’s hard for those on the left to accept that such an effort might be more productive than killing-off the last elementary school red Indian mascot in America…..”—Timothy1119

What a moronic statement!  Clearly, it’s the Right that seeks to prevent casinos from opening on reservations.  Yessiree, we gots to legislate us up a whole mess o’ Jesus! 

What a dink!

It’s far past time to admit that Columbus Day should not be celebrated as a national holiday. The full and shameful story of Columbus should be taught in our schools with no details left out and his holiday should be stricken from the calendar or changed to a day of respect for Native Americans.

While it is quite true that you can not judge an historical act out of context, that does not mean that you can not draw lessons from the past to apply to the present. And the lesson to be drawn is that the original European settlers established a set of states in which racial inequality was enshrined in social and political structures that survive to this day. Canadian Thanksgiving/U.S. Columbus day would be a good day to devote to demonstrations, educational efforts, and other community activities to highlight the history that we have inherited and continue to inhabit.

But such activities would only be worthwhile if they were energized by or connected to an ongoing popular/community movement to change these structures and attitudes.

“My point is not that we must, in telling history, accuse, judge, condemn Columbus in absentia. It is too late for that; it would be a useless scholarly exercise in morality.”  Howard Zinn

This unfortunately is the Jewish perspective.  The Jewish Holocaust is not forgotten.  It is presented consistently in movies, television, documentaries, books, and other printed media with regularity.  In my opinion and the opinions of many other Native Americans, Jews cling to victimization to advantage them in politics and economics to the point where no one dare criticize or be labled a bigot. 

Contrast that to Native Americans who do not claim victimization but refer to themselves as survivors.  The American Holocaust was fifteen times worse in terms of numbers than the Jewish Holocaust, yet, American’s still do not know the truth of their historical beginnings, nor it’s genocidal continuance.

Zinn has not told the full truth and his numbers are suspect.  It is best to read the original accounts for yourself, or the accounts written by Native American scholars, for there you will find writings much closer to the truth.

Author: Author: Bartolome de las Casas
Release Date: January 9, 2007 [EBook #20321]
Language: English
Character set encoding: ASCII
*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK DESTRUCTION OF THE INDIES ***

This site only allows four thousand words which is wholly inadequate to communicate even the smallest taste of the genocidal horror unleashed in the Americas by Christopher Colombus.  In a few short years, fifteen million people were killed by the Spanish.  I encourage you to read “Destruction of the Indies,” it is available as an ebook on the net. It’s horror is beyond one’s capacity to absorb it.

montanawildhack,

Well I just find it funny that you would want to use advanced western technology to try to stop the development of advanced western technology.  The logic breaks down somewhere along the way.

Timothy 1119,

Yes I am aware of that… I wrote my PhD thesis on the movie Back to the Future…..

montanawildhack,

You would thereby cancel out your own timeline and cease to exist.

I have a fantasy about a time machine… I would set the machine for October 1492 and the island of San Salvador right before Columbus sailed into view…  I would bring with me only a 50 caliber machine gun, 10,000 rounds of ammunition and a flame thrower…  When good old Columbus and his men were wading in the surf to make landfall I would open up…. After the smoke cleared me and a few Arawaks would paddle out with the flame thrower and finish off the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria…  Then we would party like it was 1999 and wait for the next sails to come into view in a year or so….  Of course, it would only buy a little time as the white devil does not give up easily when he has his mind set on something…  So it goes…

This movement to rename Columbus Day is one of the most ridiculous things the left has ever come up with. 

In all honesty Native Americans should get behind a movement that will actually lead to something useful.  How about pushing for an amendment to the Constitution forbidding the federal or state governments from in any way regulating economic activity on reservations?  I think it’s outrageous when a tribe wants to start a casino that a state government should be able to step in and put a stop to it. Given what whites have done to native Americans I think we owe them all the benefits (such as they are) that the government currently provides, but on top of that I think they should be considered sovereign when it comes to making their own decisions about what economic activity to allow on their own reservations.  But I know it’s hard for those on the left to accept that such an effort might be more productive than killing-off the last elementary school red Indian mascot in America…..

You cannot take all the time pieces of our human history out of contexte, it dont works and is all the time beside the truth, we know our human history is build on dead and slaugther, and not just them ore him but every body.