So Losthills, did you read the 75 of dense legalese I mentioned earlier? No? Then how do you decide how to vote? I bet you saw some 30 second ads on the telly, eh?

Also, do you know why its “three strikes” and not two, four, or five?

Because that’s how many strikes a batter has in baseball and it made a good slogan. Great school of criminology. The Sports school.

I guess it could have been “four downs” and then the accused would have to punt. I wonder how that would work.

Them pesky voters! Who the hell do they think owns this state, anyway?

In point of fact no, California’s system of government was dysfunctional prior to the use of the referendum process, by the people to protect themselves from an out of control government.

The government was broken well before all of this happened.

It continues to be broken, and doesn’t seem to understand where this is going. Not only is California ungovernable, but it’s also unlivable, for the millions of middle class families that are fleeing the state.

In this upcoming depression, the process will be reversed, people are self evacuating the state rather than coming here, like they did in the last one.

Yet California government seems clueless in it’s beliefs there is more money to get somehow from the people, and continues to squeeze every penny out of people that just don’t have it.

The use of Child Support Enforcement to create more tax revenue for the state destroyed the family, Franchise Tax destroyed small business, housing costs, school failure, and imigration put the final nails in the coffin of California’s future.

It’s too late now, all that can be done is watch it happen.

Each time a family suicides, or a gangbanger fires at someone from a fast food restaurant then cooly goes back to his meal, people wonder how it can happen, soon everyone will finally understand the reason.

the process may need to be modified, and i don’t know all the details. but there are a lot of people who just hate it, they don’t want it at all. that would be giving up something very special. I’m sure that won’t happen, but anybody who suggests it needs to be called out. those referendums, if used wisely, are a good way to get a lot of good changes in the law. i mean, were soon gonna be able to vote to legalize weed, end the three strike rules, and get gay marriage. er could only be so lucky, and it will only happen with us voting.

If you read his comments critically, you should realize that he is not calling for an end to referendums. Rather, he thinks the process should be modified. That is not unreasonable, IMO.

In Washington State, they also have an easy amendment process for the citizenry to use. Like California, some fairly stupid laws have been passed using that method. The big difference is that after 2 years, the Legislature can amend those laws and regulations. If it is something the voters still support, they are seldom hesitant to scream like a cut cat, and usually prevent a lot of endless mucking around thru the use of the ballot box: woe to the Legislator who ignores them [assuming it is not one of the long-term dead brains, with lots of seniority, in a safe district].

OTOH, in a crisis like California is facing, the Legislature has the ability to overturn these Referendums. I think they can do it before the 2 years, with a 2/3 vote of both Houses. That is a rare event however; it really pisses off the voter if it happens too soon.

Poor ol’ democracy. Taking another hit, and this time for California’s legislative,
shall we say, earnestness.

Yes, the masses are an ill-informed, confused and contradictory lot. Maybe they
should just step aside and let corporations and their cronies call the shots. Their
efficiency is unquestionable, their judgment is remarkably consistent, and their
morality is absolutely…transparent.

The referendum process has “rendered” a lot of state governments dysfunctional.

And broke.

Maybe that’s to be expected when important decisions are left exclusively in the hands of the people. It’s not that the people cant see the consequence of their decision, it’s that they rarely think about the consequence of their decision. Which makes them prime targets for Special Interest groups who, you can bet have a very specific consequence in mind.

Like personal power and/or profit.

We may soon be the United States of Disfunction. And if that happens, we may really need pitchforks, tar and feathers. Not to go after the politicians, but to go after the (usually conservative) political activists who stir up trouble, in order to offer a solution that requires voter support, donations and (surprise, surprise) an income for the activist.

In other words paid, professional trouble makers, who never run for political office, ‘cause that would actually require work!

Sometimes it’s a good thing to hold politicians feet to the fire. But there’s a world of difference between controlling the Legislature and rendering it impotent. When that happens, it just as well not exhist. And I doubt any thinking person would want to see any state government collapse.

On the other hand, there might be a few.

i love the “too much democracy” guys. I mean jeez, why can’t a bunch of unelected judges, and people who are controlled by special interest’s just run everything? that’s how it’s supposed to work. we shouldn’t have to ask dumb voters for things. this is all i hear when judges or writers bring this crap up. It just shows how much people hate any democratic process. referendums are the only way California will ever push forward. If we get to vote next year we might legalize weed. would that ever happen in any other state? no. next time or maybe two more times and voters will pass gay marriage. All of these things that are so obvious and simple, but the only way we’ll ever get them is if we decide, not a bunch of old tools who are paid off by lobbyists. more referendums.

I refuse to sign any more petitions to put referandums on the ballot. almost all of
them are ill conceived and have an agenda contrary to what is being sold to the
voters. California is being paralyzed by this process. It is the worst form of
democracy where extreme wealth can push through their own views without
going through the state legislature. The state is also subject to legislation bought
with out of state money. The “Golden State” is no longer golden. Even our great
public university system is dysfunctional, with more and more money being
diverted to support prisions and less money for education. And of course it
doesn’t help that California provides more money to the rest of the country than it
receives back.

This is SO on the mark. Here’s the NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/us/11calif.html?_r=1&hp;
It is really a crazy system. I am only a part-time resident of Ca now, but the last time I voted here a couple of years ago, the voter pamphlet had ballot iniatives totaling 75 pages of dense legalese which did not include the explanations by the Sec of State or the arguments pro and con. I swear, the whole thing was way over a hundred pages. Now, I’m probably more informed and a much heavier reader than the average voter who spends 4 hours daily in front of the teevee, but I never read it. I doubt whether anyone does. How can they? Even if they do, their informed votes will be swamped by the no nothing voter who gets his “information” from 30 second teevee ads or bright colored postcards on the kindergarten level which implore him to vote for Prop XYZ to “stop crime” or “end waste in government” or “lower your taxes”. Meanwhile, hiding in all the legalese is the ticking time bomb which usually means goodies for the rich, cuts in services for the people, a curtailment of civil rights, more pollution or other retrograde measures.

This is supposed to be “democracy”. It is no such thing. The best you can say about it is that it is mob rule. It undermines representative government. Term limits are a big one. It assumes that citizen legislators can rotate through Sacramento and enhance pure democracy. No such thing happens. Furthermore, a few years back, one of those “end waste in Sacramento” iniatives severely cut legislative staff. Don’t worry. There are plenty of lobbyists to explain the issues to novice legislators. There is no institutional memory and lobbyists and campaign contributors run the show and the 1/3 of the legislature which is Republican controls the budget! Why? Because, the voters “decided” a couple of decades back that this was perfectly sane measure. Oh wait, that was part of Prop. 13 which lowered property taxes.  The slick mailers and the 30 second ads probably didn’t say much about that.

There you have it. One of the best run and progressive states in the union a few decades back is now in the shit hole. You will notice that it parallels the decline of the whole country since the mid-70’s. The same political forces are behind both processes. By the way, have you ever heard of Grover Norquist? You should know about him. More than any other single individual, he is responsible for the current situation. Amazing, but true.

As someone in California I can say the judge is actually understating the situation. Not only is the political system in shambles, but the entire state’s infrastructure. We are no different from a Banana Republic.