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Ear to the Ground

Kabul Contractor Parties Aren’t the Half of It

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Posted on Sep 3, 2009
Project on Government Oversight

Much of the furor over the conduct of private embassy guards in Kabul appears preoccupied with what one whistle-blower describes as the “gay shit” rather than the exploitation of young Afghan women or the deteriorating security situation at the embassy. The latter, after all, was the major focus of the complaint that blew this story open.

As one of the whistle-blowing guards so eloquently put it in an e-mail, “no, they are not jamming guys in the ass per say [sic], but they are showing poor judgenment [sic].”

And so is the State Department, for continuing to rely on contractors when, in the words of the Project on Government Oversight’s letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, “the management of the contract to protect the U.S. Embassy Kabul is grossly deficient, posing a significant threat to the security of the Embassy and its personnel—and thereby to the diplomatic mission in Afghanistan.”

That document, at nearly 4,000 words, is a comprehensive indictment of the government’s use of private security contractors, of which the hazing of naked men is just one of many enumerated scandals.

While “peeing on people, eating potato chips out of ass cracks, vodka shots out of ass cracks ... broken doors after drnken [sic] brawls, threats and intimidation from those leaders participating in this activity” may be reprehensible, it doesn’t come close to the worst thing these soldiers of fortune have done while on the government payroll.

The real crime is that Uncle Sam still uses private contractors at all.  —PS

Read POGO’s letter to Secretary Clinton.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, September 4, 2009 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

Shellback or a Wog?

If you have ever crossed the equator onboard a U.S. Naval ship you experience the ritual of Neptunis Rex.

Even though I was a Marine on board a Naval vessel (USS Midway) when it crossed the equator, I was encouraged to participate in the ancient ritual of neptunis rex by crawling through garbage and having my face smeared in a fat mans belly.  I was young, WTF, not one of my prouder moments but everyone was involved.

Frat houses on campuses across America engage in Ad Hoc make believe plays to create a sense of “team” or “gang” or whatever you choose to to call it.  I just can’t believe these idiots would film it.

They should be fired for stupidity if not for anything else.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, September 4, 2009 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

Chesty Puller the well known Marine who became general through the ranks, wanted to have beer machines in the barracks and allow ladies of the night, my problem would be things could become a bit loud and I needed my beauty sleep.

As far as gays in the service, it seemed to work quite well for the Greeks.  Notice,s their are no women in the photos, what does that mean?

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By diamond, September 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

From ‘The Lord of the Flies’:

Sam and Eric -  A pair of twins closely allied with Ralph. Sam and Eric are always together, and the other boys often treat them as a single entity, calling them “Samneric.” The easily excitable Sam and Eric are part of the group known as ‘the “bigguns’.

These are the contractors.

But the most important character in ‘Lord of the Flies’ is the dead airman hanging up in a tree at the end of a parachute. He moves only when the wind blows because he’s dead but he won’t lie down. This is an image of militarism, nationalism and imperialism -all the things that lead to war, in other words. The boys in ‘Lord of the Flies’ also put a pig’s head up on a stake and worshipped it.  The contractors don’t seem to have done this yet -but they will.

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no mans land's avatar

By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

gerald:

our future military strength will hinge on the wise or unwise choices of our leaders and whether or not we will continue to engage in frivolous military campaigns of choice and bullshit bravado. Its has nothing to do with who person sleeps with any more than it did 40 years ago.

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By gerald4, September 4, 2009 at 2:35 pm Link to this comment

I think that most of these guys are combat arm trained ex-military.  Gay activities like these pictures depict would have gotten these gay people beaten senseless and unconcious in the Army of forty years ago.

Will this be typical of future military male bonding when gay military people are allowed to do whatever they want to do in the army?  What if your son is in the army and his superior is gay?  Will the futiure Army be all gay?  Will we lose the next war?

Is this the result of “don’t ask don’t tell” policy? If a few gay people recognize each other, will they get together and perform these types of activities?

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no mans land's avatar

By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi:

I wasn’t insinuating that you said anything about “gayness.” I was merely comparing the left’s open-mindedness to that issue with its apparent closed-mindedness to this one.

I’ve posted this a number of times all ready. I understand the problems with contracting (see previous post to Tony). But this is mixing apples and oranges. This type of behavior is not limited to contractors, but people of all types of demographics in a war zone. The behavior you cited has not been linked to these particular contractors and call me old fashioned, I still believe in individual justice. I will not crucify these men for the behavior of others.

Anyone who thinks this behavior will be magically solved by changing a person’s status or the clothes they wear will only be disappointed. The problem is that this is a war and aborent behavior is part of the package. There is a reason portrayals of the “gentlemanly influence” on the conduct of war seem so out of place in films that romanticize the subject. That’s because it is.

So, while I certainly appreciate that people may be offended, they should not be surprised. Personally, I still think this particular event is their business though. I’d rather see the energy placed into ending the war than burning these men at the stake.

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By Leefeller, September 4, 2009 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

As long as he had his boots on!

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By KDelphi, September 4, 2009 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment

No_Man’s_Land—who said anything about “gayness”?? I posted that I thought that our military behaved just as badly at times and that I think the war crimes committed by the contractors are not the ones we see here.

That being said, military troops who celebrate their 18th birthday there are often denied a beer , because the country makes alcohol illegal. I dont think it is asking too much when we invade a country, (which we shuld not have)if we wish to show what kind of people we are, that we ask that people dont behave like this. These guys went voluntarily adnd are paid very well.

Let the Afghan courts deal with them (which they have already covered in their contracts for a reason!)

Among other crimes,(yes, rape, murder, etc) here is some more about contractors:
http://www.stateofnature.org/lifeAfghanistan.html

“... According to the Afghans I interviewed, the warlords [3] who killed raped and terrorised the population for years, are now working with some foreign contractors, confiscating these properties and building big houses and businesses for themselves.


The government has given the private sector responsibility for the reconstruction. This means that in the absence of Afghan entrepreneurs, the limited reconstruction which takes place involves foreign companies and warlords. Many Afghans are concerned about the future of their economy based on a combination of foreign and warlord’s capital. The international NGOs are responsible for provision of services. But like everywhere else in the world, they are only able to provide a degree of health, education and other services at local levels. According to the UNDP Report [4], 39% of the population in urban areas and 69% in rural areas do not have access to clean water. One in eight children dies because of contaminated water.”

You mentioned Blackwater, so you know about that, but what in the world makes you think that these guys are any different? Its murder for profit. What kind of person does that?

They also commit acts of violence against female soldiers and are not accountabhle to US nor Afghan law….why do you think that they stuck that in there? They are not accountable to US military laws. It is a recipe for disaster. Many have been noted on steroids and amphetamines…how would you ilke to have such people providing your “security”?

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no mans land's avatar

By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

C’mon Leefeller! What’s the Eulogy going to read?

“Dave was a brave guy. Braver than most. At least we thought he was until he was turned inside-out by a stray mortar wearing a cod piece. Ultimately he died when they tried to give him mouth to mouth and his breath smelled of ass-flavored pringles. They just could do it…”

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By Leefeller, September 4, 2009 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Isn’t their some sort of fraternal order of the elite of male bonding which preform sophomoric programs (not talking about the normal Congress in Washington here) in Northern California on an annual basis? 

No_Man’s_Land is correct in his premise of male bonding to cover each others ass, not quite like above, in Nam of course we partied under the stress of not knowing what could happen next, we just did not preform it as pictured above, guess we were prudes back then or did not want to die only wearing a cod piece.

In Nam, my escapades were amusing and funny,  but nothing I would be concerned about if photographed, least I hope not.

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi:

Unfortunately, I party very little these days. While I’ve never deigned to eat pringles out of another man’s ass, I’ve had my share of crazy nights in this lifetime.

The point being that this behavior is no more criminal than that which happens on college campuses all across the country. Yet, most of the people on this thread want to use this event to make a political point about mlitary contracting. While that type reporting was very useful during the Blackwater debacles, this is quite a stretch. Its as though people cannot separate the massacre of Iraqi civilians a few years ago with a party. As far as I’m concerned, if it keeps them sane and all was voluntary and off duty, its their business.

What baffles me is that its the left that seems so offended by this. The same “progressives” that protect the rights gay men and women across this country, many of whom have engaged in some very “open” behavior in both public and private. I don’t feel this is any different except that it was done by contractors.

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

Felicity:

“Just trying to be one of the boys”

Implicit in your argument is that females are powerless when confronted with male influence. It also assumes that males don’t experience influences on their behavior, but are instead inherently flawed. When held up against the evidence of both male and female behavior, your arguement assumes men are naturally flawed and women are naturally weak. Both are broad categorizations with plenty of evidence to the contrary.

More interesting is how similar the behavior is between both males and females when under the same pressures of life, death, powerlessness and insecurity. All are utterly afraid of being rejected by the group (or herd as the case may be) and act accordingly. This is probably because in a war, there is safety in the group and on an instinctive level, dating back to who knows when, expulsion from the group in dire circumstances was synonymous to a sentence of death.

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By KDelphi, September 4, 2009 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

No_Man’s_Land—this is how you “party”??

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By felicity, September 4, 2009 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

Yeah, the feminist movement in its inception, whether by design or by way of unintended consequences, ended up sending the message that if we were more like men we’d automatically have the rights and priveleges (and salaries) of men.

So we tried and too many of us have ended up sacrificing our good stuff, the stuff that the absence of a Y chromosome allows us to be. The result?  Too many of us don’t know who the hell we are.  (And I’d wager to say that a lot of men don’t know who the hell we are either.)

Female complicity at Abu etc.?  Just trying to be one of the boys.

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

God:

Thanks. I certainly hope we can remain blissfully unaware of what war really means. But, maybe if we did actually experience it, we wouldn’t be so quick to rush into one or to crucify those we do send.

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By Leefeller, September 4, 2009 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Must say, in the end, this drunken party seemed gross especially under the aspect it was mandatory or for promotion, otherwise it really makes no difference if it happened in Iraq or here in the USA, what people do with their time off the job should be up to them if legal.

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment

GW Hitler

That’s the funniest damn thing I’ve read in a while… loved it!

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By "G"utless "W"itless Hitler, September 4, 2009 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

“These soldiers were just following orders from their superiors. If they refused to perform these lewd acts, they would be retaliated against. This wasn’t some drunken frat party, it was about older, predatory supervisors coaxing them into this behavior, at least from what I’ve read.”—Russian Paul

I can just hear it now:

“As yer SU-perior officer, I demand complete and unquestioning loyalty from every one of you maggots under my command!  My word is the Goddamn word of God, damnit!  When I say “JUMP”, you say “ON WHOSE FACE?”  And when I order you to eat Pringles out of another man’s ass crack, you better smile while doing it and ask for clam dip!!!  Because only by our shining example can we drag—WHILE IN DRAG—these backward people kicking and screaming into the light! 

Now everyone who needs billable work line up in front of the glory hole…”

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 12:25 pm Link to this comment

Felicity:

on the “wild west” being tamed by wives.

An interesting take from the feminist perspective, but it doesn’t explain female complicity in such events as Abu Ghraib or the mud wrestling event linked below.

I know everyone will hate to hear their contractor theory attcked once more, but—shocker—she was a soldier and shw wasn’t the only one involved…

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-02-18-mud-soldier_x.htm

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By "G"utless "W"itless Hitler, September 4, 2009 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

“Where’s the surprise.  Isn’t that the way men freed from the shackles of wives and mothers always act?  Afterall, we have the not-so-distant example of the American Wild West which only got ‘tamed’ with the arrival of families - namely, wives.”—felicity

You’ll get no argument here (what’s the point of arguing with a woman, eh fellas). Wives routinely ruin a good time.

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By "G"utless "W"itless Hitler, September 4, 2009 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

“This does not represent American male culture, it represents white American male culture. These are not activities that happen within the bounds of all ethnicities, however, as previously stated, it is familiar to those who have witnessed “frat” bonding.”—FrostedFlakes2

This wouldn’t be coming from someone on the down-low would it?

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 11:58 am Link to this comment

We are approaching this from the perspective of civilized society and the rule of law. War, by definition, is the absence of civil order. It is the absence of civilization and therefore civilized behavior.

All you get by changing the status from contractor to military is more people convicted in court marshals for human failings in a situation that we sent them to. If you don’t like it, end the war but we should not crucify these people for a party in the middle of hell.

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By KDelphi, September 4, 2009 at 11:48 am Link to this comment

As much as I understand how fu*ked over US soldiers are by their Imperialistic govt, at some point, despite probable cries from the Right that we are “abandoning the troops” (which they say the Left did with Vietnam—they actually did), the Left has to admit to itself that this kind of thing goes on with US military also.

So far, the troops have been presented as angels , by all. I do not wish to criticize individual troops, unless there is evidence that they have committed war crimes, but we have to understand that the very nature of this “war”, wil lead to abhorrent behavior. Trying to behave sanely in an insane situation is very difficult for most young men (and women.

Then we expect them to come home and turn off that “Kill, kill, kill!” Aint happening.

Abu Gharib involved contractors, but, also regular military. The way “war” is prosecuted, brings out the worst in everyone. Mercenaries cost us so much in respect, blood and money that they should not exist. They only exist so that war profiteers can make money.

We need a DRAFT and the “
war” would stop very shortly. No exemptions, no “stop loss” and noboby does more than one tour of duty. Period.

Congressional sons first.

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

Gary:

“Again, by focusing on the sexual content of the images most are missing the point: The people involved are contractors, and therefore are supposed to be professional workers providing a service for pay.”

Do you know what the military learned after WW1 and WW2? That after about 6 months of constant combat, everyone breaks. That is why they now grant “R&R”. Now, the present wars do not qualify as “constant combat” in the same way they did then, however the prolonged effects of being there take their toll. That means that people of all status’, gender, nationalities, and professions are affected. You can have a war or you can have “professional workers.” Too often, though, you can’t have both.

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By bogi666, September 4, 2009 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

Felicity, the reason for the government privatizing its functions is corruption, no transparency or accountability to the American tax payers who fund privatization. It has pretty much been proven that privatization is not more efficient. This has been proven at the state, Jeb Bush in Florida and federal government, the Pentagon which doesn’t even try to be efficient. In fact the Pentagon, the government inside the government, with its more than 800 bases world wide has 800 constituencies while the U.S. congress has 535 constituencies. Foreign operations are rife with corruption due to the labyrinth of sub contractors from foreign countries and complex banking arrangements.

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no mans land's avatar

By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

For those of you who still feel that this behavior will be magically absolved by changing the status and clothes of people in a war zone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, September 4, 2009 at 11:27 am Link to this comment

Why in the hell can’t we use Marines to guard our
embassy and diplomats? Isn’t that what they’re for?

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By Tony Wicher, September 4, 2009 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

By No_Man’s_Land, September 4 at 1:59 pm #

I can’t prove that these exact individuals were
involved in the Dostum massacres in 2002. But a whole
picture is emerging. I do believe that CIA
contractors were present on the ground during the
Dostum massacres. Dostum himself has long been known
to be a CIA asset. Perhaps this link gets a little
closer, based on eyewitness accounts by ten people
who survived the massacre and ended up in
Guantanamo.

http://www.matthewgood.org/tag/abdul-rashid-dostum/

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By bogi666, September 4, 2009 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

Someday the American taxpayers may finally rebel with how their tax dollars are being spent but I doubt it. The American taxpayers just don’t get it, these are whom are supposedly protecting us from the world wide terrorist threat of al-queda and our protectors should at least have some exercises about how to put their clothes on fast and the food and drink out of the ass cracks befor putting their clothes on. The best thing that could happen would be for an attack on the American Embassy while these goons were running around with potato chips up each others asses with their pictures shown to the world. Abu Ghraig pictures have nothing on these and at least the prisoners there had the dignity to have been forced to pose indecently and were shamed, unhealthy shame because the prisoners had no choice, while these Americans feeding at the public trough don’t have the dignity to have any healthy shame. Now what will President Obushama have to say about this. World these are the pictures of behavior that the USA wants to impose on the world.Where’s a fundamentalist when you need them?

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

Tony:

Scahill has done amazing work on Blackwater and military contracting in general and I agree with him about 85% of the time. I have read his book and followed his articles. As a system, contracting is indeed problematic. It takes a mission-driven entity (the military) and replaces it with a profit-driven one (contractors). I recognize that the privatization of the use force too often means there is every incentive for that portion of the force to start and maitain a war rather than win and end one and that in doing so, we risk creating a machine that must feed to survive with no off-switch.

I get all of that. However, that is not what this story is about. This story is about a party that offended someone who in turn decided to “blow the whistle” on them and has now been twisted into a political statement as though these people were somehow more criminal than they are.

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By Russian Paul, September 4, 2009 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

sorry, I meant mercenaries, not soldiers.

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By Russian Paul, September 4, 2009 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

These soldiers were just following orders from their superiors. If they refused to
perform these lewd acts, they would be retaliated against. This wasn’t some
drunken frat party, it was about older, predatory supervisors coaxing them into
this behavior, at least from what I’ve read.

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By Tony Wicher, September 4, 2009 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

More on Blackwater

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090914/scahill

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no mans land's avatar

By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Tony:

I did and saw absolutely no link between these individual contractors and the war crimes outlined in the article.

You cite “Blackwater” as the guards who committed the crimes. These guys are from an entirely different company. And even if this was the same company, it is still a stretch to think that the same people involved in that contract in 2002 are the same ones guarding the embassy in 2009. Two different issues and I refuse to convict and crucify people for the crimes of someone 7 years ago by the mere association in their status as contractors alone.

I prefer to deal with the facts in front of me and that is that a number of personnel in a war zone engaged in drunken, sexual behavior between themselves and/or prostitutes and hardly the command the same furor that your article should.

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By felicity, September 4, 2009 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Where’s the surprise.  Isn’t that the way men freed from the shackles of wives and mothers always act?  Afterall, we have the not-so-distant example of the American Wild West which only got ‘tamed’ with the arrival of families - namely, wives.

(I’ll bet none of the participating contractors sent those pictures home to mom and wifey.)

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By garyrose66, September 4, 2009 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

Again, by focusing on the sexual content of the images most are missing the point: The people involved are contractors, and therefore are supposed to be professional workers providing a service for pay.  I know when I hire contractors, I want them to perform the contracted service efficiently, safely and cost effectively according to contract.  Then I pay them.  This is the meaning of the term contractor.  What the pictures and reports tell me is that the contractor is not performing according to contract (unless the parties are contractually defined and approved, which I doubt). Clearly anyone hiring the people depicted should have grave doubts about their judgement and ability to perform the security operations they have been contracted for.  Thus, they should be fired,and the contract cancelled, the contractor blackballed from ever holding a Federal contract again, then if contractors are deemed really necessary, re-bid, and a new contractor hired.  I don’t see how anyone should be wasting any time on discussing or analyzing any other issues.

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By Tony Wicher, September 4, 2009 at 10:43 am Link to this comment

Re By No_Man’s_Land, September 4 at 1:22 pm #

“We might as well all go and join the Christian
Coalition and call it a day.”

    x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

What do you mean “we”, white man?

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By Tony Wicher, September 4, 2009 at 10:34 am Link to this comment

RE No_Man’s_Land, September 4 at 1:22 pm

Did you bother to look at the link I provided?

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

Tony:

Assumption: That these “were the same boys” that committed atrocities. I assume you have a by name list of those involved in war crimes and those who threw a party?

The connection between their behavior and their status as contractors is spurious at best.

Truth be told, I can’t tell the difference between the left and the right these days. This is the same crowd who so ardently defended Bill Clinton’s escapades in the oval office as a private matter between he and his wife (which I still believe to be the case). This is the same crowd who chastised the right for politicizing that sexual event and conflating it with an inability to perform his duties as president.

We might as well all go and join the Christian Coalition and call it a day.

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By FrostedFlakes2, September 4, 2009 at 10:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This does not represent American male culture, it represents white American male culture. These are not activities that happen within the bounds of all ethnicities, however, as previously stated, it is familiar to those who have witnessed “frat” bonding.

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By Tony Wicher, September 4, 2009 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

By Tony Wicher, September 4 at 1:05 pm #
Yeah, what’s wrong with a little homoerotic hijincks?
It’s rough out there, and boys will be boys. Even
when it comes out that shortly after our invasion of
Afghanistan, in early 2002 when Blackwater first
arrived in Afghanistan, these same boys were
supervising Afghan warlord Dostum’s militia when they
murdered thousands of “Taliban” including women and
children by cramming them into unventilated shipping
containers and letting them suffocate, not doubt we
will be equally unperturbed. After all, war is hell,
right?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/57649.html

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By Jean Gerard, September 4, 2009 at 9:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Walt Kelly’s “Pogo” was right:  “We have met the enemy and he is us.”—Or if you prefer, U.S. with its vaunted belief in its own superiority.  A headline the same day in the same paper asked:  “Can U.S. Lead Afghanistan?” Lead?  Kindly Light?  Excuse me.  I’m leaving now!

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By Not My USA, September 4, 2009 at 9:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Where is my country?

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

Johannes,

Blaming these employees for this is nothing more than the same “blame the victim” mentality of the right, but spun from the left. I’ve found that most adults can’t explain their sexual behavior, much less the children they raise. If we want to have a cultural discussion about how the entire American package of economics, militarism, under-prioritized education, and intergenerational ignorance of the human condition culminate in the manifestiation of drunken homoerotic rituals around a cermonial bonfire in the fields of Afghanistan, I’m all for it. However, we are on the edge of crimilizing these people and I don’t that is justified.

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By God, September 4, 2009 at 9:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No_Man’s_Land: Good analysis. Dehumanization is ALWAYS the only lasting effect of war. If (and by “if,” I really mean when, because we all feel it’s just a matter of time, don’t we?) war breaks out in this country, people here will begin to learn about this axiom viscerally, just like these tatooed neo-gladiators, sacrificing the last vestiges of their human dignity on the altar of capitalism.

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By johannes, September 4, 2009 at 8:59 am Link to this comment

To No Mans Land,

Your reasoning is correct, but your approximation, is beside the fact that this are grown up men, and not children, thus fully responceble for their behavior.


Salutations

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By no mans land, September 4, 2009 at 8:32 am Link to this comment

So the entire problem here that these were contracted employees? What an intrinsicly shallow analysis.

1) Are we so naive as to believe that government or military personnel have never acted oddly in a war? Yes, the military is more controlled, but has anyone seen the latest suicide statistics of our military?

2) Could it be that people in war zones (not just contractors) have so much pent up inside of them that when it does finally get released, this is what we see? “I’ve always been crazy but its kept me from going insane”-Waylon Jennings)

3) The discussion of the dehumanization of Afghan women is entirely appropriate, however it unfortunately excludes the similar dehumanization of those driven into military or contracted service. And why no talk of how economic depravity drives people into things like prostitution and military/contract service in the first place?


4) What could we expect if they did not have such a release? More reciprocal, violent dehumanization, either in Afghanistan or back home in a domestic dispute?

5) People wonder why veterans come home unwilling or able to talk about their problems, drop out of society, or worse. While not the only factor, but an imporatant one to take into account is that our offense and discomfort at seeing what goes on certainly adds to the problem. All one needs to do to understand their retisence is to read this thread.

6) This is but one example of how situation, culture, and poor education combine to get expressed through human sexuality. The sad fact is that we leave the education of human sexuality up to the uninformed gym teachers and Paris Hiltons of pop culture. It is not a subject we take serious enough to teach our people about and this conversation is a testament to that.

We clearly remain the puritanical cowards we’ve always been when confronted with anything that falls outside our very limited and narrow band of accepted sexual norm. We don’t have a problem studying Roman orgies or phalic art, only American ones it seems.

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By felicity, September 4, 2009 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

This sort of stuff makes me crazy. The rationale for contractors in war zones is because the military, in the long run is more expensive AND there aren’t enough available military to do what contractors are doing (like firing at private Iraqi vehicles passing on the road?) 

And now, and this is what makes me crazy, the military is going to put its personnel at the embassy to monitor (guard?) the contractors guarding the embassy?  So, other than the expense (which I doubt) what’s the rationale for using contractors again?

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By Jim Yell, September 4, 2009 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It seems some are missing the point. The “gay themed abuse” wasn’t instigated by gay soldiers or gay private security, but by supposedly straight men with an IQ in the lower reaches of norm. They were vicious, over aggressive, bullies, but what is most clear is they were improperly supervised, bored and that was the fault of their management people, their officers. But saying that the punishment for having done these things should fall on the officers, or management of these groups and the worse perps should be filtered out of our military and privitized security should be closed down.

What do they think they are? What is all this talk about military pride and why do we continue these private contracts, which pay more than the military and do not properly train their men for anything but mischief.

Privatize? It has lead to abuse and outrageous behavior. The government has a lot to answer for, but as Winston Churchill said about democracy, “It is the worst kind or government————except for all the others”, lets turn it around to “It is the worst type of management———except for all the others”.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, September 4, 2009 at 7:04 am Link to this comment

Of course this is normal behavior only for all American Males when growing up. In other countries they rape women who they find talking to other unmarried men while sober?

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By Ouroborus, September 4, 2009 at 6:38 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry; yup, got to agree, bring back the draft,
but no exemptions/no exceptions; can’t fight means
automatic desk job, but in a combat zone.
As for these twisted Mary’s; they should be slammed
into the nearest loony bin and throw away the keys.
Sick, sick frat boyos, every manjack one of them.

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By KDelphi, September 3, 2009 at 11:15 pm Link to this comment

Gawd.
Now why cant these nice guys CIVILIZE those Muslim savages!

Andrew Beuhler—WHAT, pray tell, would you CHARGE people with for this idiotic behavior?

I always hated frat guys and their parties—tell us, jocks, is this what frat parties were like?

The murder and rape is another thing altogether—you think it will stop when they come home? These guys never really grow up.

I think each one should marry a Senator’s daughter.

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By Old Dude, September 3, 2009 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Patrick Henry’s comment on the draft.

You are steering in the right direction but let’s take the next step and put all children of the US Sentate and House into the draft; and then into serious harms way. Why not? If they had done this in Viet Nam I doubt it would have dragged on so long.
  The number of Senate and House kids that ended up serving during Nam was really small.
  Let them “fix” Iraq and Afghanistan. They could call Mom and Dad and make suggestions. Maybe something positive would come out of it.

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By LostHills, September 3, 2009 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

End the war now.

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By TheHaplessCapitalist, September 3, 2009 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The day this story broke out on the news, I heard a very interesting comment on MSNBC.  In the midst of showing some of these pictures, the lady on MSNBC (I don’t knew her name) said that these guys are essentially “a bunch of sexually confused frat boys acting out in typical manner.”  Moments later, she rescinded her statement, announcing that saying such a thing was in fact unfair because there are many “respectable” fraternities across the United States (clearly, some of the producers sitting in the control must have felt outraged by this comment due to their own history).  However, I believe that she hit the nail on the head with her original comment.  These images encapsulate American male culture in all of its disgusting and perverted glory.

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By Andrew Buehler, September 3, 2009 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just heard NBC news Reporter say,that if any of those peopleWere found to be guilty,that they wouuld be fired,they said that sixty people have been interviewed because of the incedent. Picture telll the story

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By PatrickHenry, September 3, 2009 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

Private contractors….what a waste of money.

Time to reinstate the draft so the sons and daughters of wall street and congress can “serve their country”.  No deferments.

With the draft (no deferments), these acts of foreign adventurism would come to a quick close and the instigators disembowled by angry parents.

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By Leefeller, September 3, 2009 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

Times have changed, when people destroyd things when drunk or sober, they ended up in the brig. Now they get promoted? The sick visions of death in Vietnam were more than enough to make some of us want to escape reality, but these imbeciles seem over the top they must be Republicans or Christians so than it is accepted as okay. 

What they do on their off time should be one thing, if they are required to do these kinds of partying then that is another.  Rape has been a problem in the past with contractors and women, now we see this crap.

What are these clowns going to be like when assimilated back home in our great society?

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