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Ear to the Ground

At Least 13 Dead in Gaza Mosque Gunfight

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Posted on Aug 14, 2009
Gaza mosque battle
AP / STR

Abdul-Latif Moussa, center, leader of the Islamic group Jund Ansar Allah, is protected by militant followers after speaking at Friday prayers in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip.

A deadly showdown that pitted an al-Qaida-associated organization against Hamas and police troops left at least 13 killed and 85 wounded in the Gaza Strip on Friday, marking the worst day of violence in the region since January’s Israeli offensive, according to the BBC.  —KA

BBC:

At least one Hamas fighter was killed by a grenade fired from the mosque but most of those killed were supporters of the cleric. One child was also killed.

The entire neighbourhood was sealed off as the shooting continued after dark - in what was one of the most violent incidents in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip since an Israeli offensive in December and January.

It was not immediately clear if the mosque’s imam, Abdul-Latif Moussa, was captured during the fighting.

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By ardee, August 21, 2009 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam

The status of women in Islam is a contentious issue. However, in places the Qur’an says women are equal to men before God.[1] The treatment of women in Islamic countries varies; while not directly commanded by the letter of the Qur’an, religious arguments are used to justify women’s rights.

Women in the Islamic World have achieved high political status and have produced more than seven head of states including Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan, Mame Madior Boye of Senegal, Tansu Çiller of Turkey, Queen Rania of Jordan, Kaqusha Jashari of Kosovo, and Megawati Sukarnoputri of Indonesia. Bangladesh was the first country in the world to have a female head-of-state follow another: Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina each won two elections each.[2].

The complex relationship between women and Islam is defined by both Islamic texts and the history and culture of the Muslim world.[3] Sharia (Islamic law) provides for differences between women’s and men’s roles, rights, and obligations. Muslim-majority countries give women varying degrees of rights with regards to marriage, divorce, civil rights, legal status, dress code, and education based on different interpretations.

Even where these differences are acknowledged, scholars and other commentators vary as to whether they are just and whether they are a correct interpretation of religious imperatives. Conservatives argue that differences between men and women are due to different status and responsibilities,[4] while liberal Muslims, Muslim feminists, and others argue in favor of more original, traditional interpretations.

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By Sepharad, August 20, 2009 at 11:26 pm Link to this comment

ardee, I don’t think anyone should slaughter anyone, and it’s true that a large proportion of Moslem-on-Moslem violence is in the Arab world, though Afghanistan natives are not Arab, nor are Iranians.
What I do see as a commonality among all people is that very extreme religion leads to destructive behavior and at the very least casts a pall over the possibilities of others forced to live in its shadow. I don’t think Western consumer lifestyle, ridiculous as it is, is based on the backs of Arabs in particular. And there are problems with Arab culture that Arabic scholars keep detailing in white papers sponsored and released by the UN year after year after year. 

You have a good heart, and you are correct that nuance is indispensable to understanding other peoples and other cultures (and also correct that I’m not a bigot). Some of the people in my extended blood family speak Pashtu, Urdu, Arabic, Chinese and Hebrew along with English and French and a little native American. I believe that what makes the difference in a society as a whole is the availability of non-religious education to all of its children and young people, a decent economy so those educated can find jobs, and a society that does not eliminate the skill and potential of 50% of its population because of gender.

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By ardee, August 20, 2009 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

”....But it pales in comparison to the scale and frequency of Moslem-on-Moslem warfare and feuds. Europe got over its religious wars hundreds of years ago, and we haven’t burned witches since early colonial Salem days.”

Sepharad once more into the breech…...

True that Europe is no longer tribal, in one sense of that word at least. Though we are still burning “witches” in one sense, a few million Vietnamese here, a few hundreds of thousands of Arabs there….

But you fail to accurately note, and it is an important absence I think, that the followers of Islam number 1.4 billion people and the violence we see comes from a small minority of that number, most of them still living a tribal existence.

If one takes the Taliban as one example we see that they originate from a Sunni Moslem tribal entity, the Pashtun, who reside mostly in very rural and isolated existence. The “arch enemy” AlQaieda draws its numbers from similar demographics as well.

There is a grave danger in your inferences of the “inferiority”, so to speak, of so many human beings. I do not, emphatically do not, call you a bigot, only perhaps less nuanced in your thinking than is good for you, me and all of us on this little blue ball.

Here in the dawning of the twentyfirst century I think it long past time to see each other as members of the same species first and foremost, and thus put our differences in a better perspective. It is common to first demonize people one intends to slaughter you know.

Perhaps the real issue should not be how cheap you believe life is to Arabs but how mucht hey have been trodden down in order to maintain our inflated lifestyles….

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By Sepharad, August 19, 2009 at 10:38 pm Link to this comment

Robert, the Tehran Times is not exactly an unbiased source. And again, the Swedish story you quote from once again, is condemned and questioned by the other major Swedist daily as noted in my earlier email.

Organ-trafficking is international but does have a greater effect on poor people in many lands where selling their organs for a pittance is a desperate act of survival. Organ donors don’t come close to meeting the waiting lists of people needing kidneys, livers, even hearts. This leaves the road to abuse and blackmarket practices wide open. I doubt there is a single country anywhere not involved.

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By Robert, August 19, 2009 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

THE IDF: ISRAEL’S ORGAN GRINDER

August 19, 2009 at 5:36 pm

By Gilad Atzmon

“In the photo, The IDF’s Chief Rabbi, OC Chaplaincy Brig. Gen. Avichai Ronzki and OC Medical Corps Brig. Gen. Nachman Ash both signed up for an organ donation card during a ceremony in the Kirya Military Headquarters in Tel Aviv. One wonders if they are aware that, if the claims are true, their very own IDF has at least on several occasions been involved in obtaining younger organs from Palestinians they have killed, returned to their families after five days and had buried in a regime of a night-time blackout under Israeli-enforced Palestinian curfew.

There is an old Jewish joke that tells the story of a dying Jewish merchant who calls his son to his sickbed just before he perishes. He tells him, “Listen to me Moisha’le, life is not just about money… you can also do gold and diamonds.”

Monitoring Israeli and Jewish news reveals a devastating fact, it is not ‘just’ about money. It may also be about human organs. A few weeks ago we learned about a ring of American Rabbis who had been arrested in New Jersey upon suspicion of human organs trafficking (amongst many other crimes).  Rabbi Levy Izhak Rosenbaum, we read, enticed “vulnerable people to give up a kidney for $10,000 which he would turn around and sell for $160,000.” Not too bad, I thought to myself then. We are living in hard times, financial melt down, credit crunch, Wall Street is licking its wounds, the car industry is evaporating.  Seemingly, kidney trafficking is still booming. 

In fact, the ring of the Rabbi in New Jersey didn’t take me by complete surprise. For years we have been hearing about Palestinians claiming that Israel is “deep into organ trafficking.” We also learned that the family of Alastair Sinclair, a Scottish tourist who hanged himself in an Israeli jail, “was forced to bring suit for his return with missing body parts.”

In 2002 the Tehran Times reported: “The Zionist state has tacitly admitted that doctors at the Israeli forensic institute at Abu Kabir had extracted the vital organs of three Palestinian teenage children killed by the Israeli Army nearly ten days ago. Zionist Minister of Health Nessim Dahhan said in response to a question by Arab member of the Zionist Parliament ‘Knesset’, Ahmed Teibi, on Tuesday that he couldn’t deny that organs of Palestinian youths and children killed by the Israeli forces were taken out for transplants or scientific research.”

But now the news about Israeli trafficking of human organ is spreading to Western mainstream media. Ynet, the biggest Israeli online newspaper, reported today that “Leading Swedish daily Aftonbladet claimed in one of its articles that IDF soldiers killed Palestinians in order to trade in their organs.”

A few weeks ago we had a debate here on PTT whether Zionism is a colonial apparatus or not. One of the Materialist arguments against the perception of Zionism as a colonial practice was that Palestine has never been too attractive economically; it lacks oil, gold or minerals. However, this may change now. People who specialise in organ theft may find Palestine to be heaven on earth. In the light of the latest vastly spreading accusations, the Jewish national project maybe is colonial after all.”

~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest & watch out for photo…if you have a weak stomach:

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/the-idf-israels-organ-grinder/

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By Sepharad, August 19, 2009 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment

Robert—I hope everyone reading this latest post of yours will not miss the last four paragraphs of the Ha’aretz story, in which Mats Skogkar, leading columnist of Sweden’s liberal “Sydsvenkan”—south Sweden’s major daily—harshly criticizes the other paper’s disgusting story.

Another story, in the August 8 NGO Monitor (Jerusalem-based research group monitoring the main NGO monitors in the Arab-Israeli conflict), took to task a story written for Human Rights Watch, an organization that till now I’ve taken seriously and respected. Still do, but think they should be more careful in their choice of authors. Just a few days after making a half-hearted attempt to achieve “balance” by vaguely criticizing Hamas, came an article by Joe Stork accusing the IDF of killing 11 Palestinian civilians waving a white flag during the Gaza conflict. The NGO Monitor took apart the “facts” on which article was based, buttressed by an IDF video (looks like taken from a low-flying helicopter) showing a Hamas terrorist, after setting an IED, shooting to draw in IDF troops then jumping into a house filled with civilians and, hiding behind them, forces them out waving a white flag. (There’s a link to this video on Honest Reporting, Aug. 19, 3:56a..m., or you can probably find it on YouTube.) Of all the dedicated people in HRW, they should have found someone with less bias re this conflict: Stork has a history of supporting Palestinian terrorism beginning in ‘72, when he excused the ‘72 Munich Olympics massacre of 11 Israeli athletes as being an “important boost in morale among Palestinians.” While I understand that many on this website would agree with him, I hope they also understand that this is hardly a model of objective reporting—more like a horrible example of non-objective analysis.

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By Sepharad, August 19, 2009 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

ardee—you’re right, shouldn’t have sloughed it off so lightly. Of course Westerners have wars. But we no longer have sectarian and tribal warfare, or wars within wars within wars. Since the Civil War, Americans have not continued to bomb or shoot other Americans over religion, race, of region(apart from criminals and gang killings), nor do most Europeans. ETA is still active.  But it pales in comparison to the scale and frequency of Moslem-on-Moslem warfare and feuds. Europe got over its religious wars hundreds of years ago, and we haven’t burned witches since early colonial Salem days.

It’s ridiculous for anyone to lend cultural equivalency where there is none.

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By Robert, August 19, 2009 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

Israel Declares Shooting of Unarmed American Activist an “Act of War”

“In other Mideast news, the Israeli military has declared the shooting of an unarmed American peace activist “an act of war.” The activist, Tristan Anderson, was critically injured when Israeli soldiers fired a tear gas canister directly at his head in March. Anderson was taking part in a weekly nonviolent protest against Israel’s separation wall in the West Bank village of Ni’lin. The Israeli military says Anderson was involved in a hostile act, which would absolve the military of any liability for his injuries. Michael Sfard, an attorney for Anderson’s family, said, “If [an] unarmed civilian demonstration is classified by Israel as an ‘act of war,’ then clearly Israel admits that it is at war with civilians.” The Anderson family has filed a criminal complaint with the Israeli government and also plans a civil suit.”


http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/19/headlines#13

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By Robert, August 19, 2009 at 6:53 am Link to this comment

19/08/2009          

Top Sweden newspaper says IDF kills Palestinians for their organs

By Morten Berthelsen and Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent

“A leading Swedish newspaper reported this week that Israeli soldiers are abducting Palestinians in order to steal their organs, a claim that prompted furious condemnation and accusations of anti-Semitic blood libel from a rival publication.

“They plunder the organs of our sons,” read the headline in Sweden’s largest daily newspaper, the left-leaning Aftonbladet, which devoted a double spread in its cultural section to the article.
 
The report quotes Palestinian claims that young men from the West Bank and Gaza Strip had been seized by the Israel Defense Forces, and their bodies returned to the families with missing organs.

“‘Our sons are used as involuntary organ donors,’ relatives of Khaled from Nablus said to me, as did the mother of Raed from Jenin as well as the uncles of Machmod and Nafes from Gaza, who all had disappeared for a few days and returned by night, dead and autopsied,” writes author Donald Boström in his report.

Boström’s article makes a link to the recent exposure of an alleged crime syndicate in New Jersey. The syndicate includes several American rabbis, and one Levy Izhak Rosenbaum, who faces charges of conspiring to broker the sale of a human kidney for a transplant.

Boström also cites an incident of alleged organ snatching from 1992, during the time of the first Palestinian intifada. He says that the IDF seized a young man known for throwing stones at Israeli troops in the Nablus area, who was shot in the chest, both legs, and the stomach before being taken to a military helicopter which transported him to “a place unknown to his loved ones”.

Five nights later, Boström says, the young man’s body was returned, wrapped in green hospital sheets.

“The sharp sounds from the shovels were mixed with the occasional laughter from the soldiers who were joking with each other, waiting to go home. When Bilal was put into his grave, his chest was revealed and suddenly it became clear to the present what abuse he had been put through. Bilal was far from the only one who was buried cut-up from his stomach to his chin and the speculations about the reason why had already started,” he writes.

But the liberal Sydsvenskan - southern Sweden’s major daily - had harsh criticism for the rival paper, running an opinion piece under the headline “Antisemitbladet” (a play on the name Aftonbladet).

“We have heard the story before, in one form or the other. It follows the traditional pattern of conspiracy theory: a great number of loose threads that the theorist tempts the reader to tie into a neat knot without having been provided with any proven connection whatsoever,” writes leading columnist Mats Skogkär of Sydsvenskan.

“Whispers in the dark. Anonymous sources. Rumors. That is all it takes. After all we all know what they [the Jews] are like, don’t we: inhuman, hardened. Capable of anything,” the opinion piece says. “Now all that remains is the defense, equally predictable: ‘Anti-Semitism’ No, no, just criticism of Israel.”

The Foreign Ministry reacted angrily on Tuesday to the report. Ministry spokesperson Yigal Palmor said the newspaper’s decision to publish the story is “a mark of disgrace” for the Swedish press.”

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1108384.html

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By ardee, August 19, 2009 at 3:27 am Link to this comment

Sepharad, August 19 at 1:37 am #

ardee, you’re right, but we weren’t talking about non-Arabs
.........................

In all seriousness,sepharad, and with apologies for my curtness, are you really this foolish?

You infer that violence in the Arab world is somehow a cultural imperative, or unique to them. I show that violence is endemic to all humanity and you slough it off as off topic. Sorry, but this is simply an outrageous effort on your part.

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By Robert, August 18, 2009 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

8/17/2009

Human Rights Watch Calls on Israel to Investigate “White Flag” Shootings of Gaza Civilians


“Human Rights Watch released a report last week detailing new evidence of possible Israeli war crimes committed during last winter’s Operation Cast Lead in Gaza that left over 1,400 Palestinians dead. The report says Israeli soldiers unlawfully shot and killed at least eleven Palestinian civilians, including five women and four children, who were in groups waving white flags to make clear that they were civilians and not combatants. We speak to HRW’s Fred Abrahams and air exclusive video from Gaza from Democracy Now!‘s Anjali Kamat and Big Noise Film’s Jacquie Soohen.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/17/human_rights_watch_calls_on_israel

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By Sepharad, August 18, 2009 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

ardee, you’re right, but we weren’t talking about non-Arabs.

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By ardee, August 18, 2009 at 4:03 am Link to this comment

Sepharad, August 18 at 12:51 am #

Folktruther, Arabs have always managed to find reasons aplenty to massacre one another—

Those durn white people have always found reasons to massacre one another, the One Hundred years war, WW1,WW2, Korea, Grenada, Gulf War 1, 2, 3…..gee, lets play some more….

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By Sepharad, August 17, 2009 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, Arabs have always managed to find reasons aplenty to massacre one another—that’s how they lost Al Andalus, that’s the outcome of Fatima v. Ali and all the other sectarian minutiae —they’ve never needed Zionists or Israel or the U.S. to inspire them. Hamas is lucky they were strong enough to keep a worse class of fanatic worming its way into Gaza.

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By Folktruther, August 17, 2009 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

Israel-US has historically used Arabs groups to massacre other Arabs, a necessary condition to its policy of ethnic cleansing.  The Lebanon Christians, the Falange, was used by Begin and Sharon, Sepharad’s hero, to conduct the Beriut massacres, killing thousands of men, women and children.  The Israeli military, “the most moral army in the world,’” surrounded the refugee camps and prevented the population from leaving while the massacre was going on.

In Gaza, Sharon withdrewn all Israeli settlers and turned Gaza into a Ghetto-concentration camp for a million and a half people.  The Israeli army conducted what was essential a military progrom, killing hundreds of women and children and destroying fifty thousand homes, among other economic destruction.

Isreael-US may now we attempting to form Arab groups to conduct these massacres.  both the Israeli and US power structures are increasingly barbaric, and have corrupted their populations as well, the moral depravity being legitimated by the Sepharads and Zionist lemmings.

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By felicity, August 17, 2009 at 9:03 am Link to this comment

David - Israel informed the UN years ago that human rights treaties do not apply to what she does in the Palestinian Territory or the West Bank so Israel would hardly permit Human Rights Watch to enter Gaza, or any place else in Israel for that matter.  And, of course, HRW could condemn all it wanted but its condemnation would fall on disinterested ears.

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By Sepharad, August 16, 2009 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

This would be the first time I’ve ever had a good word to say for Hamas, who emphasize nationalism but are more extreme in their religion than the average devout Moslem,and who remain enemies of Israel, Fatah and secular Palestinians: in the mosque shoot-out, Hamas did the right thing. Whether these guys were Al Quaeda or simply sympathic to Al Quaeda’s Wahabbi extremists, Hamas had to keep them from gaining a foothold—even a toehold—in Gaza. It would be bad for everyone hoping to bring peace to that delicately-balanced region: bad for Hamas, Fatah, Palestinians, and Israelis.

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By David, August 16, 2009 at 6:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

24 dead, 6 unarmed civilians.  125 injured.  An attack on a mosque.  Where is Human Rights Watch to condemn this violation of Human Rights.

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By Folktruther, August 16, 2009 at 12:22 am Link to this comment

As Ardee says, this is precisely the kind of thing that Israel and the US power systems love, Arabs fighting Arabs.  that is why the US funds the fatah police, to put down the Palestinians.  What the Arabs need are better anti-tank and anti-aricraft weapons to use against the Israelis.  this would allow them to break the Gaza starvation blockade.

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By Truth-versus-Falsehood, August 15, 2009 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment

By diamond, August 15 at 4:46 pm #
==================================
Thank you diamond for your reasoned response to my comment! I agree with your analysis of the dilemma Hamas was made to face as a result of the Moussa’s group action. However, as the political power in control of Gaza, they could have reasoned with the erring actions of the Moussa’s group the way you reasoned in your comment. This could have provided an opportunity to bring them to their senses and to have saved unnecessary shedding of blood among brothers in face of a brutal enemy. Of course, this is assuming that the Moussa’s group were not acting on behalf of the real enemy.

Having said this, there remains the complex issue of whether this group was paid or used by Israel or the US agents to create the justification you mentioned about Israel conducting another deadly operation into Gaza.

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By diamond, August 15, 2009 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment

Truthversusfalsehood, this was a matter of life and death for Hamas. If Israel can claim that a group that claims (however false those claims might be) to be linked to al Qaeda has set up an armed camp in Gaza what do you think the outcome of that would be? Hamas is essentially a secular organisation with nationalist goals. A rarity in the Muslim world where religion tends to trump nationalism. They couldn’t tolerate this, because Israel would have used it as an excuse to invade Gaza again and kill ‘terrorists’. And as an elected, secular government Hamas couldn’t tolerate it anyway. No government would tolerate someone declaring a church to be an ‘emirate’ while its clerics parade through the streets with armed guards in defiance of the elected government.

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By Robert, August 15, 2009 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

Obama’s America Is Not Delivering The Goods

By Gideon Levy

Haaretz Correspondent

“August 14,m 2009—- With great sorrow and deep consternation, we hereby declare the death of the latest hope. Perhaps rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated, to paraphrase the famous quote by Mark Twain, but the fears are being validated day after day. Barack Obama’s America is not delivering the goods. Sharing a glass of beer with a racist cop and a pat on the back of Hugo Chavez are not what we hoped for; wholesale negotiations on freezing settlement construction are also not what we expected. Just over six months after the most promising president of all began his term, perhaps hope has a last breath left, but it is on its deathbed.

He came into office amid much hoopla. The Cairo speech ignited half the globe. Making settlements the top priority gave rise to the hope that, finally, a statesman is sitting in the White House who understands that the root of all evil is the occupation, and that the root of the occupation’s evil is the settlements. From Cairo, it seemed possible to take off. The sky was the limit.

Then the administration fell into the trap set by Israel and is showing no signs of recovery.

A settlement freeze, something that should have been understood by a prime minister who speaks with such bluster about two states - a peripheral matter that Israel committed to in the road map - has suddenly turned into a central issue. Special envoy George Mitchell is wasting his time and prestige with petty haggling. A half-year freeze or a full year? What about the 2,500 apartment units already under construction? And what about natural growth? And kindergartens?

Perhaps they will reach a compromise and agree on nine months, not including natural growth though allowing completion of apartments already under construction. A grand accomplishment.

Jerusalem has imposed its will on Washington. Once again we are at the starting point - dealing with trifles from which it is impossible to make the big leap over the great divide.

We expected more from Obama. Menachem Begin promised less, and he made peace within the same amount of time after he took office. When the main issue is dismantling the settlements, the pulsating momentum that came with Obama is petering out. Instead, we are paddling in shallow water. Mitchell Schmitchel. What’s in it for peace? Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will once again meet him in London at the end of the month. A “magic formula” for a settlement freeze may be found there, but the momentum is gone.

Not in Israel, though. Here people quickly sensed that there is nothing to fear from Obama, and the fetters were taken off. Defense Minister Ehud Barak was quick to declare that there is no Palestinian partner, even after the Fatah conference elected the most moderate leadership that has ever been assembled in Palestine. Afterward, in a blatant act of provocation, he brought a Torah scroll into the heart of the Muslim Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem, in full view of television cameras, just so America can see who’s boss around here.

Deputy Prime Minister Eli Yishai and Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin, another two politicians who smell American weakness, were quick to declare during a visit to Ma’aleh Adumim that Israel will not freeze any construction. To hell with Obama. The settlers continue to move into more homes in East Jerusalem, Netanyahu is silent and Israelis sense that the “danger” has passed. Israel is once again permitted to do as it pleases. The landlord has once again gone insane. Except that the landlord has gone insane because the real landlord is showing signs of weakness, signs of folding, signs of losing interest in events in the region that most endangers world peace.”

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23264.htm

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By felicity, August 15, 2009 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

ardee - It might also have suited both Israel and the US when the Shiite mosque, Askaria, in Iraq was blown to pieces in Feb. ‘06.  AlQaeda/Sunnis were ‘credited’ with its destruction - be that as it may - the bombing of one of the most sacred mosques in all of Islam managed to set off Iraq’s civil war that to this day continues unabated.

If it could be determined who is profitting from Iraq’s internal strife, it might also be determined who exactly blew up the mosque in ‘06. 

I’m on your page when it comes to news being an arm of political propaganda.

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By Truth-vesus-Falsehood, August 15, 2009 at 7:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By ardee, August 15 at 9:27 am #

“One must be very carefully in weighing “facts” as reported , especially in an era where dissemination is rampant and the news is an arm of political propaganda. It would seemingly suit both Israel and the US if Gaza could be made into an AlQaeda battlefield, would it not?”
=============================
Yes it would, ardee! I strongly agree with your thoughtful comment above.

However, I am disappointed and angry whenever any group who are supposed to share the same grievances and goals give comfort to the real enemy by their infighting. There is no excuse for true nationalist Palestinians to shed each others blood. Both groups should be reminded of the saying of Prophet Muhammad who they claim to follow his teachings, who said: “If two Muslims meet each other in an open battle and one kills the other, then both are destined for the Hellfire.” Some of his companions who heard his statement inquired, “We understand the guilt of the one who kills, but what’s the guilt of the one who was killed?”  The Prophet responded, “He went into battle with the intent of killing his brother if he could.”  So the meaning and message of this Hadith is that anyone or a group who pitches him or themselves in battle against another are guilty by virtue of allowing the situation to deteriorate to that point.

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By ardee, August 15, 2009 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

This makes more sense if viewed as a fight between Hamas and Fatah than a struggle involving AlQaeda. The targets chosen by bin Laden’s troops have generally been directed against the Shia. Both AlQaeda and the Palestinian people are Sunni.

One must be very carefully in weighing “facts” as reported , especially in an era where dissemination is rampant and the news is an arm of political propaganda. It would seemingly suit both Israel and the US if Gaza could be made into an AlQaeda battlefield, would it not?

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By Sepharad, August 15, 2009 at 12:25 am Link to this comment

So Moussa & his Al Quaeda disciples don’t think Hamas is Islamist enough. Insane reason for attacking and killing people in a mosque. Wonder what made them think that all those victims were Hamas? They could have been Fatah or just Moslems not interested in either party but more concerned with their families and, in their time of trouble, their god.

Haniyah seems to think this Al Quaeda-affiliate incursion and its message was somehow contrived by Zionists and their allies, but even the most hardened Likud Zionists would hardly welcome any branch of Al Quaeda into the Israel/Palestine tree.

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