Shingo, July 27 at 2:59 am #

The Palestinians want their land back, not to live in another Arab state.
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Right forum, wrong thread, Shingo?  I think you wanted to post this on the one below, about Israeli Arabs getting a raw deal.

“Enough people are alive who heard those radio broadcasts and enough people are alive who were there who begged arab civilians Not to Leave.”

This is absolute rubbish of course. Benny Morris debunked this lie.

Also, half a century before Israel was even created, Zionists were openly advocating the forceful removal of the Palestinians, arguing that a Jewish could never exit until the Arab problem was solved.

Last but not least, Ben Gurion also stated that while israle woudl accept the partrition plan in the beginnign, it would not be bound by it and allow the plan to limit Israel’s future expansion.

The Palestinians want their land back, not to live in another Arab state.

“So the lie isn’t the “Joe” in “Joe the Plumber”, it’s the “Plumber” part ...”

Couldn’t agree more, but even if “Joe” went back to school and learned to be an electrician, (there’s a scary thought) he will always be “Joe the plumber.” Marked for life, and always good for a chuckle.

“Sarah “Open Mouth, Change Feet” Palin.”
Best descript I’ve heard yet!

A group of people witness a crime and every witness has a different memory. But there’s no dispute about the crime ... they all remember the crime! So the investigators must put the various memories together, along with the evidence, and figure out exactly what did happen. Then try to determine who and/or how many should face charges.

I’m sure Bush had moments of lucidity, I can’t recall any at the moment, but I’m sure they’re there. Just as (believe it or not) I’m sure Cheney probably did! I’ve been told that even the most unbalanced and deranged individual can occassionally say or do something incredibly wise. But that should never lead to their being considered as “normal.” Whatever that is.

What I remember most about Bush is his compulsive need to blurt out anything about anything even if the blurt contradicted a previous blurt. Then move on completely unaware of what he’d done untill someone at his elbow would point it out, then he would ellucidate on the previous blurt, blurting more and usually making it worse. And in the process giving us all a good laugh.

Cheney on the other hand never made anyone laugh.

So I suppose we can say Bush’s legacy leaves us laughing, while Cheney’s legacy leaves us crying. Except it really isn’t that simple. If Bush knew and understood what his VP was doing enough to object at any point in time, then he has no pass. If on the other hand Bush didn’t know what Cheney was doing, he wasn’t doing his job, so he has no pass. If we find Bush smart enough to understand, he sould face an accounting. One criminal scolding another criminal for wanting to commit a crime in front of witnesses doesn’t make either of them less criminal!

In my view, Cheney is the madman who would rule the world. Bush is the madman who did rule the world.
Which of them was the madest?

We need to investigate both of them, then if we find guilt, force accountability and demand restitution. Except for the millions of lives lost, they can’t ever be restored, and there’s nothing funny about that! And they must never be forgotten.

Meanwhile mainstreammedia keeps the conversation going.

“The process [of mass-media deception] has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt…. To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies - all this is indispensably necessary.”: George Orwell in the book 1984

Where is Karl Rove anyway?

Louise, July 25 at 4:48 pm #

So for all my contempt for Cheney, he doesn’t scare me near so much as all those Bush supporters who are still out there!
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Just when I’m snapping back from reeling to learn that Bush cut Cheney dean on pardoning Libby, comes the revelation that Bush nixed the Cheney push to use the military to arrest the Lackawanna Six!  Here was Cheney and Rummy and all the neo-cons lined up to break the Posse Comitas law for the first time since the Civil War, and only Condi Rice, the head of the FBI, Sessions, and a few cooler heads are saying no….And Dumbya does the RIGHT thing and deep-sixes Cheney and Rummy and as the correct agency make the arrest: The FBI.

What’s going on here? Are we REALLY going to learn that Bush may not have been as much of an idiot as he appears, and not as fully immoral as he appears either?  How f***in’ weird is this?

BTW, I need to defend Joe the Plumber on ONE issue where he’s been treated unfairly.  His middle name is Joseph, even if his first name is Samuel.  I have known many, many people over the years who went by their middle name as their “use name”, sometimes because that’s tradition (like Down South, so much people assumed MY name was my middle name—it’s not), sometimes because they are a junior.  My next-door neighbor growing up was a third, his father being a junior, so he grew up called by his middle name—ironically “Joe” as well.

So the lie isn’t the “Joe” in “Joe the Plumber”, it’s the “Plumber” part because he’s not a licensed plumber.  So many things to attack this cluck about who has been thrust to national prominence by John McCain, but calling himself “Joe the…” shouldn’t be one of them.

I’d say JTP is a dumb-ass, but he IS capitalizing on his “15 minutes”, apparently riding the wave very well, for as long as it lasts, and as long as the Right-Wing-Nuts are in love with him and Sarah “Open Mouth, Change Feet” Palin.

The less than intellectual and far short of smart, conservative voters, finally achieved their greatest desire in life. To see someone as dumb as them achieve the office of President of the United States.

With that kind of reality in front of him, I doubt the Dick ever saw the need for something as complicated as assasination. All he needed to do was just be president. The Moron In Chief and his moron supporters never noticed, and for the most part still haven’t!

After all, we are talking about a group who thinks Sarah Palin should run for president and Joe (who’s name is Sam) the Plumber (who doesn’t know how to plumb) should run for Congress!

So for all my contempt for Cheney, he doesn’t scare me near so much as all those Bush supporters who are still out there!

I’m not defending Bush in general or his whole view on pardons in specific.  Cheney’s “loyalty” to Libby had SOLELY to do with “This is my guy.  If you don’t pardon him, then everyone else working for me is going to worry you won’t pardon them.”  Nor should they be pardoned.

It explains much about Bush, that his distrust of pardons is SO great he didn’t bribe vast numbers of neo-cons to shut them up.

Cheney STILL comes off as a) Darth Vader b) disrespectful of his boss’s own rules (regarding pardons, combined with a sense of being too important for rules.
c) to f***in’ stupid to recognize that he wasn’t getting anywhere, even up to Jan 19th, and
d) that Bush had basically cut him out of influence two years earlier.

I just read that Cheney wanted U.S. military personnel to arrest terrorist suspects on U.S. soil back in ‘02 or ‘03.  I’m surprised he didn’t have George W. murdered and assume dictatorial authority.  Were we lucky, or was the plan simply not feasible?

Poor Cheney. What’s an evil maniac to do?

After all, the Dick is only working hard to create a positive legacy of HIS eight years as president of the United States!

‘Course being completely insane, he doesn’t understand the failure of his legacy is not because of bad-mouthing from dems, but comes from his side.

His “party of the right” being as insane as he is, still doesn’t get it. They still believe Bush was president! And apparently so does Bush! Else why would this petty issue have become so contentious?

Poor Cheney. What’s an evil maniac to do?

Inherit, the REAL surprise was Cheney demonstrating a sense of loyalty, a human emotion. You got it backwards—Cheney comes off better than expected while Bush remains a degenerate thing.

Actually, Inherit the Wind, Bush doesn’t do pardons - ever.  Remember Carla Faye Tucker?  Not only wouldn’t he pardon her (even at the request of a prominent evangelist, not to mention Newt and the Pope) he mocked her pleas for leniency as pitiful and even ha ha laughable. 

For almost 14 years Carla Faye had expressed deep remorse for what she had done so Bush’s excuse that he couldn’t pardon Libby because he hadn’t expressed ‘remorse’ is a crock.

A human being without one redeeming quality is extremely rare but as is the case with George Bush it’s obvious that such a creature can exist.

Nobody actually has discussed the REAL surprise: That Bush comes off FAR better than he has in many years.  He had a very simple question that Cheney and nobody else could get around.  Did Libby lie?  Since the answer was “yes” Bush was pretty much done.  People who know Bush said the other factor was Libby would not accept that he HAD committed perjury—he had no remorse.  For Bush, that was the nail in the coffin.

It’s SUCH an unexpected view of Bush—and it means he probably did NOT approve the “outing” of Valerie Plame.

But it doesn’t excuse him of the obvious: This was HIS administration running amok.  If he knew and approved he’s a criminal. If he didn’t know, he’s an incompetent.

In any case, he’s STILL the worst President ever, in my book.

These people raped and plundered this country and now we are backing the banks to the tune of 23 TRILLION DOLLARS??? and the congress will not spend 1 trillion on health care over 10 years?? It blows my mind that the sheeple do not bitch, even a little. WOW…..

By diamond, July 24 at 4:11 pm #

‘A top adviser to Bush says he had never seen the Vice President focused so single-mindedly on anything over two terms.’

Come on. Credit where it’s due. What about the planning and execution of 9/11? Where’s the respect?

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Good one Diamond! He was equally focused on torturing Arabs.

Yeah, let’s show Dick a little respect, for being a dick.

I will say this about Cheney: if you are one of his foot soldiers and fall on a sword for him, he will try his best to help you. George W Bush will smirk, say not a word in your defence, and walk right past you, leaving you to swing in the breeze. Being the degenerate privileged non-drinking alcoholic brat that he truly is; and the Sheeple being willing victims.

In this instance, despite Cheney’s war criminality, I have to say I support him over Bush. It’s tepid support at best, but this defence by Cheney of Scouter Libby does indicate normal human character. It’s rarely found in Cheney, and does not exist in Bush. Oh, Libby is guilty of course, only he was the “fall guy.”

I also feel like apologising for my comments here—all I can say is I also believe Mussolini was preferable to Hitler. And all of them—Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Yoo, Rice, Powell and Libby—belong in jail, doing hard time. It won’t happen, I know, but justice continues to exist even when a spoiled and amnesiac people prefer that it does not.

‘A top adviser to Bush says he had never seen the Vice President focused so single-mindedly on anything over two terms.’

Come on. Credit where it’s due. What about the planning and execution of 9/11? Where’s the respect?