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Ear to the Ground

Iran Blames the British

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Posted on Jul 3, 2009
Protests
telegraph.co.uk

Iranians wave flags outside the British Embassy in Tehran after Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati claimed U.K. officials incited postelection protests.

It was the British! According to the Iranian government, it wasn’t the corrupt election or even general resentment toward a heavy-handed state that led to the massive postelection protests in Iran. Instead the regime has detained staffers from the British Embassy in Tehran, and reportedly will put them on trial on charges of inciting protests against the government.

BBC:

Some UK embassy staff detained in Tehran and accused of inciting protests after disputed elections will face trial, a top Iranian cleric says.

Guardians Council chief Ahmad Jannati said: “Naturally they will be put on trial, they have made confessions.”

Nine embassy staff were held in Tehran last weekend. Britain says all but two have now been freed.

EU governments are to summon Iranian ambassadors to protest against the detention of the embassy staff.

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thebeerdoctor's avatar

By thebeerdoctor, July 8, 2009 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

re: inherit The Wind

Sorry for the irritation, from one knucklehead to another.

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By Inherit The Wind, July 7, 2009 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

Actually, that is NOT what this thread is about, BlueManTroop.  It’s just what YOU decided to talk about.

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, July 7, 2009 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

Re Samson, July 3 at 10:11 pm #
I suppose the key thing to realize is that its not a simple case of either or.  There has been a lot of BS on the web in the last few weeks with the phony argument that this must either be a spontaneous revolution or it must be a CIA plot.

The key is to realize that it can easily be both.  The ‘color revolution handbook’ says to always use existing opposition to the government when plotting a color revolution.

——————————————————————————

That’s how I see it. Of course intelligence agencies will take as much advantage as possible of genuine democratic popular movements to mislead the people and turn the movement to their own ends. I would say that the first few days of peaceful demonstration represented a spontaneous movement of the people, but after the first week it was more and more directed by western intelligence agencies and their provocateurs. One thing is for sure: these agencies regard real democracy as the greatest threat. They would much rather have a repressive theocracy than a democracy.

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By dunablue22, July 7, 2009 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

excuse me ‘great blower of hot air’ this thread is not about who to blame but rather the superficial way that TruthDig mirrored such mainstream sites as the BBC; an alternative supposedly progressive media site should do a lot more and you might do the same. Instead of reaching for handy labels like genocide (which does little really to illuminate events - and actually contributes to the misreading) you might do a bit a homework and share what you learn with the rest of us; and if you are as astute politically as you want to be then certainly you must understand that big power politics are like icebergs…

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By Inherit The Wind, July 7, 2009 at 4:55 am Link to this comment

thebeerdoctor, July 7 at 6:58 am #

Thank you dunablue22 for pointing out to the winded one that the arbiters of policy, whatever their ideological bent, could not care less about the victims of their actions whenever they are implemented. The rationale for war from the left is just as insane as that advocacy from the right. All politicians in essence, are simply power sucking animals.
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By dunablue22, July 7 at 3:18 am #

it is not hair splitting INHERIT THE WIND… do you know how many Iranians died in the war with Iraq when Moussavi was prime minister? Who is grieving for them? Perhaps you should change your tag to INHERIT IGNORANCE… throughout history far too many innocents have died because of big plans by well-sounding leaders who were nothing more than crooks in liberal drag…
*********************************************

Are you two knuckleheads trying to imply that I don’t CARE about the dead who died in these horrible conflicts? Do you think I don’t know that at least a million and maybe 2 million died in Iran fighting this insane war with Iraq that WE (by which I mean the Reagan/Bush 41 regimes) actively aided Iraq??

I’m SAYING that the families of the dead are in just as much agony whether the UN calls it “genocide” or not!  And calling it “genocide” doesn’t somehow make it worse, while saying it’s not “genocide” doesn’t somehow make it any better!

Sometimes the blindness of “The Contingent” is friggin’ irritating!

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thebeerdoctor's avatar

By thebeerdoctor, July 7, 2009 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

Thank you dunablue22 for pointing out to the winded one that the arbiters of policy, whatever their ideological bent, could not care less about the victims of their actions whenever they are implemented. The rationale for war from the left is just as insane as that advocacy from the right. All politicians in essence, are simply power sucking animals.

Report this

By dunablue22, July 7, 2009 at 12:18 am Link to this comment

it is not hair splitting INHERIT THE WIND… do you know how many Iranians died in the war with Iraq when Moussavi was prime minister? Who is grieving for them? Perhaps you should change your tag to INHERIT IGNORANCE… throughout history far too many innocents have died because of big plans by well-sounding leaders who were nothing more than crooks in liberal drag…

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By Inherit The Wind, July 6, 2009 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

Donablue:

Do you think the murdered or their families care about your hair-splitting?

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By Sepharad, July 5, 2009 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

well,dunablue22, is it Fox news or TD or only those pesky human rights groups accusing the Iranian leaders of generating confessions to fomenting revolution from reformist leaders and participants(under duress and torture)? Even the Iranian mullahs who normally fall in line behind the Guardian Council and the Ayatollah are disgusted with and critical of the Ahmadinejad/Ayatollah bunch. Or are they also, in your fevered brain, flunkies of the Brits, Yanks and Jews?

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By Folktruther, July 5, 2009 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

Beerdoctor, that’s the reason that the American people are so deluded; the learned and mass media delude them.  the Conservative media delude Conservatives and the Progressive media deludes Progressives.

The “Iran Stolen Election” takes its place with “Iraq weapons of Mass Destruction” and “Darfur Genocide” as American Big Lies all based on war against Islem to control their oil.  And religious loonies on the right and Zionist lemmings on the left repeat these Big Lies to the population.

A democratic electoral system is impossible if the truth system is not democratic.  People will simply be deluded to vote against their own interests.  It is the truth system that is the crucial first step in the American population controlling their polity;

But it costs money to market the truth in the Marketplace of Ideas.  When I was young it was called the Democracy of Ideas but that time is long gone.  How can the American population develop their own truth system to resist the Big Lies of the American media?  that is the first historical question that has to be answered to incrrease the power of the people.

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By dunablue22, July 5, 2009 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind needs to do a little home work; yes, wanton murder is despicable but it does not necessarily constitute genocide… here is simple wikipedia notation…
“Genocide scholars such as Gregory Stanton have postulated that conditions and acts that often occur before, during, and after genocide— such as dehumanization of victim groups, strong organization of genocidal groups, and denial of genocide by its perpetrators— can be identified and actions taken to stop genocides before they happen. Critics of this approach such as Dirk Moses assert that this is unrealistic and that, for example, “Darfur will end when it suits the great powers that have a stake in the region”.”

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By Inherit The Wind, July 5, 2009 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

Wait a sec: so….hundreds of thousands are being murdered in Darfur for not being Arab, even if Moslem and it’s NOT genocide?  But somehow it’s the USA’s fault and not Bashir’s, who ordered it?  How do you figure THAT?

And in Congo, the slaughter is estimated at 5 MILLION dead!  But since it’s all over power and diamond mines and other instant-billionaire resources, it’s not genocide either.

At least you acknowledge that the killings ARE happening.  But you are blaming the wrong people—the US and the UK, rather than Bashir and the warlords.  They, too, made choices.

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thebeerdoctor's avatar

By thebeerdoctor, July 5, 2009 at 8:51 am Link to this comment

I find it quite remarkable that a site such as Truthdig swallows this fabricated story, without even questioning its actual authenticity. To simply claim, from the vantage point of the United States, that you just know that the Iranian people were simply reacting spontaneously to the disputed election, without even considering ulterior political motives, is to claim that Kermit “Kim” Roosevelt never lived and Operation Ajax never existed.

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By dunablue22, July 5, 2009 at 12:37 am Link to this comment

well Sepharad your cliches are only exceeded by your ignorance - it is a simple fact that both the U.S., U.K. & Israel would like nothing more than to bring a Shah clone back to Iran… just read a little history and you’ll see - did you ever hear of Iran-ContraGate? Look at the players…

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By Sepharad, July 4, 2009 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment

So which British or American conspiracy is it that’s making the Iranian fascists clamp down like the iron maiden on the demonstrators, stage mass arrests of anyone who is not braindead or disagrees with them, including important reform journalists and intellectuals and honest academics, minority parties etc. Doesn’t this embarrass them even a little? I’m one of those who thought it possible that Ahmadinejad actually won, given his stated populism, simple lifestyle, and not averse to diverting public funding to the coffers of the RevGuards, the Basilij, et al., but I think he may have pushed the best-educated Iranians who were out there.

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By Folktruther, July 4, 2009 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

No, inherit, a holicaust HAS occurred in Sudan and Chad; tens of thouseands of people have been killed and hundreds of thousands made refugees, as in Iraq.  Largely financed by the US who is arming rebel groups to get some of the oil in southern Sudan, as they did in Chad.

But, as the UN and all other countries maintain, there is no genicide.  There is no one ethnic group being singled out to be killed but all groups opposing the government are attacked.  Including Muslims.

I realize zionists don’t beleive in evidence when it conflicts with the Aipac line, but a 2007 article by Engdaul in the Financial Times lays out the power relations.  IT is titled something like “Dafur: Forget genocide, its oil.”

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By Inherit The Wind, July 3, 2009 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

FT is now a holocaust denier: but of the holocaust in Darfur, not the one in WWII.

His precious Ahmedinejad government announced that jailed opposition leaders admitted they were in a plot!  Oh, this is big! (Even though it’s clear they were tortured into confessions—just like the elections, those confessions are legit!).

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By Folktruther, July 3, 2009 at 8:02 pm Link to this comment

IT is a perfectly simple case, Sampson.  The Iran ruling and professional class want more democratic freedoms.  The US used them to smear a landslide election and create a color revolution.  What could be simpler than that?  The US has done it again and again, using the rhetoric of Democrtic reform to install neoliberal policies.  Particularly to privitaize the oil.

What is complicated is not the plot, but all the bullshit that both Dem and Gop media tell about it.

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Samson's avatar

By Samson, July 3, 2009 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

I suppose the key thing to realize is that its not a simple case of either or.  There has been a lot of BS on the web in the last few weeks with the phony argument that this must either be a spontaneous revolution or it must be a CIA plot.

The key is to realize that it can easily be both.  The ‘color revolution handbook’ says to always use existing opposition to the government when plotting a color revolution. 

Since the US Congress has officially passed an act (in 2006, valid until 2012) aimed at the overthrow of the Iranian government and the promotion of democracy there, I’d be very surprised if there was no US intel money going into Iran.  And I’d be surprised if the Brits were right there alongside us.

But, that doesn’t mean that every protester in the streets knows where the money for their green banner came from.  It certainly doesn’t mean the protesters in the streets weren’t legitimate and spontaneous.

Be wary of anyone, even Truthdig, that tries to promote simple explanations for complex situations.

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Samson's avatar

By Samson, July 3, 2009 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

Anyone want to start a pool on how many of the people detained are really MI-6 agents?

In any embassy, there are always a certain number of spies there under ‘official cover’.  That is, they have jobs in the embassy, and diplomatic protections, but are really spies.

Since the Iranians arrested embassy members that were going out into the streets during the protests, it seems possible that the odds of at least some of these people being spies goes up even higher.
———————

I can live with the link to a BBC article.  I can find them on my own of course, but if Truthdig wants to link to something important there, then ok.

But, the intro to the article that Truthdig wrote is not right.  That mocking tone that makes fun of the Iranians for arresting people who quite likely are British spies diminishes this site.  There are plenty of sites that simply cheerlead the official propaganda, I don’t need Truthdig to become yet another.  At the very least, please present an article like this as one side of a complex situation where we will likely never know the whole truth.

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By dunablue22, July 3, 2009 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther is absolutely correct; Truthdig is following the same superficial path as Fox or NBC or the NY Times… if you can’t report something intelligently then why bother…  you conflate fact with half-truths and lies and the result is misinformation… to be a progressive media is to be critical and careful…

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By Folktruther, July 3, 2009 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Dunablue asks the relevant question: is this truthdig or Fox News.  The emtire mainstream truth consensus accross the entire power spectrum endorses Big Lies to support the US War on Islam for oil.  The NYTimes repeated today its Big Lie of an Irani “Stolen Election” when all the available evidence indicates that the election was was a landslide for Ahmadinejad, just as Irani officialdom says.

Amazing.  How do they do that?  There have been three Big Lies inducing US war on oil states the evidence indicates is completely and obaviously untrue.

1. “Weapons of Mass Destruction” in Iraq. over a million deaths, uncounted maimed and milliions of refugess.

2. “Dafur Genicide.”  the UN declared thare was no genicide and only the US says there was.  The US is supplying rebel gorups with arms to try to break off the oil region of Sudan to get it away from the Chinese.  tens of thousands of deaths, hundreds of thousands of refugees.

3. Now the Iran “stolen Election.”  An attempt at a Color revolution with the funding of demonstrators and terrorist groups to put pressure on the Iran leadeership.

This could not be done if the universities didn’t support it.  My daughter was given a book of memors to read by an African tribesman, THE TRANSLATOR, actually written by Western journalists, which contains the most brazen lying implications.  This was her first introduction to the University of California at Santa Cruz.  Actually the second, the first book advocating a new American racist nationalism, railing against immigration and affermitive action.  they claim they are instill a “global consciousness.”

Why is it that professional truthers are so servile to the American ruling class?  These lies are blatant and a proportedly Progressive university endorses them without turning a hair.  In feudal power systems religion was used to support the authorized violence of power.  In capitalist power systems, political and social untruth is used to promote the Big Lies of oppressive power.

The major reason is that there is no geneal ideological theory that exposes the deceit of power historically.  All power structures delude the people they rule, conceptually and emotionally deranged our consciousness, distract us from our crucial power interests with learned and popular trivia, and ideologically repress the simple truth aobut people and power.

we are indoctrinated from childhood to WANT TO BELIEVE in what authority tells us.  It is this wish fulfillment, as Frued calls it in THE FUTURE OF AN ILLUSION that allows these relgious and political big lies to be credible.  Power must delude us to serve their power interests: and we want to be deluded to give us a sense of Patriotism and Security.  This leads us to identify with our own oppression and the oppression of other people.

But the American people are deluded again and again.  The NYTimes had Judith Miller write front page articles endosing the weapons of mass destruction and now the Times editor Keller, came out endorsing the Iran “Stolen Election.”  Will people continue to Patriotic believe whatever fairytales power tells them?  This is leading us to disaster.

What must be done is to tell the unpatriotic and uneducated truth to the American people that subverts the Big Lies of class and homeland values.  The War on Terrorism, which is really a war for Muslim oil, is based on these Big Lies and can’t be defeated until the American people are undeluded, and mobilized.  and the whole scam is done to steal money from the American population and give it to the owners of the banks and corporations.  We are being lied to in order to be swindled.  And fake Progressives like truthdig are collaboraters in spreading these Big Lies.

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By dunablue22, July 3, 2009 at 11:32 am Link to this comment

Its this TruthDig or Fox News here? My server must have sent me in the wrong direction… hard to imagine why TruthDig is quoting the BBC which has been a fount of misinformation about events in Iran… this is not reporting this is misrepresenting…

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, July 3, 2009 at 11:29 am Link to this comment

From everything I have seen and heard, these protests were a spontaneous movement of the Iranian people, not some kind of CIA/MI5 coup attempt analogous to 1953. Nevertheless, I am sure the British Embassy in Tehran is crawling with MI5/MI6/CIA agents, and no doubt they were involved somehow.

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