“As an example, remember the supposed “photo op” of the plane over NY.  There isn’t an ounce of me that says Pres. Obama knew of this.  Later, these instigators claimed logistical communication errors and lack of forethought….. bullshit.  It was an intentional act and an attempt to make it appear that Pres Obama and his admin…. didn’t know what they were doing, but also to interrupt important issues they were dealing with at that time.”

??????????????

“There is nothing that says it is Pres. Obama.  Matt Taibbi’s article regarding Goldman-Sachs, convinces me EVEN moreso that Pres. Obama “choose” Summers and Geithner only superficially.  It’s simply too difficult to swallow the reality that there’s been a Goldman-Sachs waterboy in EVERY PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION since 1920 and then to furthermore swallow that “no one” knew.  The fact is EVERYONE knew, but us peons of course (although probably some of us peons noticed too).”

How does one “choose superficially”???

Outraged, please learn to accept reality and “swallow it” because that is exactly what Obama is asking you to do…Summers and Geithner ARE the problem! Obama had many other choices—look who he chose! He also “chose” Gates, Vilsack, Sebelius, Clinton—-that should TELL you who he IS!

If not, someone is blackmailing Obama and Holder should investigate it—-oh, that’s right, Holder doesnt investigate where its inconvenient…

WHOMEVER IS HOLDING OBAMA AT GUNPOINT AND PREVENTING PROGRESSIVE PROMISES FROM BEING FULFILLED SHOULD BE INDICTED FOR TREASON!

Food for thought, for The United States SENATE.

“Long believed that only a radical restructuring of the national economy and elimination of disparities of wealth, while retaining the essential features of the capitalist system, would end the Great Depression and stave off violent revolution. After the Senate rejected one of his wealth redistribution bills, Long told them, “[A] mob is coming to hang the other ninety-five of you damn scoundrels and I’m undecided whether to stick here with you or go out and lead them.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long

Re: Folktruther

Your comment: “He has campaigned on peace and promoted war.”

He did not campaign on peace, remember… he said he would get out of Iraq and go into Pakistan and Afghanistan.  He said he would do this to stop the Taliban.  (personally, I see the pipeline deal here, however it is plausible that by interrupting the heroin trade, that one could put a serious dent in some rich Americans’ pocketbooks…. )  He did say he would use diplomatic efforts rather than run in “guns ablazing”, so far….. he’s done that, too.

Who campaigned on peace and anti-imperialism—- Kucinich, Paul, Nader and McKinney… did I forget anyone?

Your comment: “The notion that the US is involved in Honduras but not the federal government is absurd.  Another attempt at taking a middle, compromise position.”

No.. it isn’t absurd.  In fact, it’s almost right out of Hitler’s playbook.  He put “his people” in strategic positions, as he gained power he utilized this… in all types of ways, to the surprise and outrage of the legitmate government.  By the time they realized what was going on they had lost control of the situation, it was too late.  He also of course used his propaganda campaign to engage the people, but Hitler’s propaganda more closely resembles CONSERVATIVE politicial rhetoric and Faux News than, then Sen. Obama’s campaign or Dems in general.
 
Yes, there are elements in our government, who are not for democracy AND they are backed by monied interests, just like Hitler.  It is my premise that they will do, whatever they can to create havoc, now that the power they once had is being tamped down.

As an example, remember the supposed “photo op” of the plane over NY.  There isn’t an ounce of me that says Pres. Obama knew of this.  Later, these instigators claimed logistical communication errors and lack of forethought….. bullshit.  It was an intentional act and an attempt to make it appear that Pres Obama and his admin…. didn’t know what they were doing, but also to interrupt important issues they were dealing with at that time.

There is nothing that says it is Pres. Obama.  Matt Taibbi’s article regarding Goldman-Sachs, convinces me EVEN moreso that Pres. Obama “choose” Summers and Geithner only superficially.  It’s simply too difficult to swallow the reality that there’s been a Goldman-Sachs waterboy in EVERY PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION since 1920 and then to furthermore swallow that “no one” knew.  The fact is EVERYONE knew, but us peons of course (although probably some of us peons noticed too).

It isn’t true that I attack Obama the man rather than the policies, Outraged.  His election was a significent step forward racially, he is articulate, intelligent, his wife his beautiful, his kids are cute, and his dog… well, I assume that his dog is friendly.  He possess an enormous number of political talents.

Which he has used systematically to break every political promise he has made in his campaign for Change from Bushite policies.  He has campaigned on peace and promoted war.  He has promised an end Bush’s pro-rich policies and has funneled trillions to the banksters.  He has promised to end torture and arbitrary imprisonment and continues it.  He his enticed Dem Progressives to support Bushite policies.

Because of his popularity among Progressives, he is WORSE than Bush.  Progressives hated Bush and his policies and now love Obama and his, the policies with margianal differences are the same.  Obama is, so far, a succesful public relations coup, which is destroying the US.  He is covering over with rhetoric historical problems that a real progressive president could deal with.

Hippie4ever, you can stand asside in a political argument, this is the American way among the American people who do not want to get involved.  But when there are real issues at stake, the left then loses by default.  The notion that the US is involved in Honduras but not the federal government is absurd.  Another attempt at taking a middle, compromise position.  At least Outrage honestly argues hers.

Re: KDelphi

Your comment: “This is asking for something FAR short of Socialist Democracy, of course. It is only asking for a tiny bit of justice!”

I agree.  This seems to be what you aren’t hearing.  I agree… I’m just not positive that it is Pres. Obama.  Could it be?  Sure.. But it doesn’t appear so, I think their are many other elements at work as well, this is why I say….. Pres. Obama does not appear the problem, it’s ALL the lobbyists, banksters and bought out politicians (I know, you’re saying he is one….maybe).

Once he became President, he didn’t really need to repay favors.  However his actions still depend upon who has the majority of POWER….. it could be somewhat even, I doubt it, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any power or can’t acquire more.  This is my point.  This is why I’m saying, give Pres. Obama more power, not his enemies. His enemies are your enemies.

I do not think the situation is as simplistic as you generalize.  I believe that it will do more harm than good to attack Pres. Obama, than the other elements.
 
If we can regain control of our government via Pres. Obama, then we will know exactly what he’d do, if he could.  Many of these situations are instigated to undermine him, that’s what liars and bottomfeeders do.  Then they yell and scream as if they (the rightwingers) were the ones being treated unfairly.  It’s their MO

Re: hippie4ever

Your comment: “But was it the federal government? Probably not; that’s the huge elephant not being directly discussed, because we have no control over the real governments of this society”

I agree.  This is my point.  Which is why I said, July 4 @ 5:28p

“Maybe Folktruther… maybe, but we do not know all the facts as yet.  The question THEN becomes which “government”, the shadow one or the real one?  There is absolutely no proof of your accusations and plenty of information which is in DIRECT conflict with your assumptions.”

It is the conservatives in America (with the help of Faux news) along with the elite in Honduras that support this coup d’etat.  YES…. this is the elephant in the room.

While I can’t outright claim that the Obama admin. had no hand in it or didn’t know, my argument was that it doesn’t appear to be so.  Using what we know, it appears to be the brainchild of other elements.  But you’re right, our government could be in the hands of others, it does appear that way.  This is why I’m saying how can it be Pres. Obama, if he’s not steering the boat.

Again from Voice of America:
” The crisis in Honduras has become a hot topic for conservative pundits in the past several days. President Obama, along with other world leaders, the Organization of American States and some human rights groups, have condemned the military’s removal of President Zelaya in Honduras last Sunday.”
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-03-voa38.cfm

Outraged—So which of Obama’s accomplishments are you most proud of? Which are the most progressive? Which ones do you think Nader would be most happy with? (You voted for him , right?)

The only way you can think that ‘it wont do any good” is to just say, “I give up and support one of the ruling elite parties”—is that what you say now??

Let us see what Nader said on July 2, 2009, about Obama’s “sincerity”.
“Ignoring Prophetyic Predictors” (which you are asking us to do now—things are getting worse—not waiting in limbo for Obama to get around to it))

“I’ve wondered often why people who go to “town meetings” held by campaigning politicians rarely ask fundamental questions….

Here is one that should have been asked of presidential candidate Barack Obama: “If you get to the White House, will you appoint to top positions Americans who have a track record of making the right decisions in their respective fields?”

“Of course, I will,” Obama would have undoubtedly replied…..

...Of course, he did not when it came to the collapse of the corrupt Wall Street casinos and the bailout of these gamblers by the American people. Obama chose the very Wall Streeters and Wall Street servants who were involved in, condoned, or profited from the speculative binges that led to the biggest government bailout scheme in world history. The President’s explanation is that he wants experienced people who know how Wall Street works. Yeah, right! In reality, he wanted political cover….

Something very important is missing when even people who are part of the ruling establishment are ignored, marginalized, or ridiculed even though their detailed, public warnings prove to be all too accurate”

Lets see what he sayd on June 26th “Financial Reform, Words and Deeds”

“The President’s plan omits, (1) strong antitrust enforcement, (2) tough corporate crime prosecution, and (3) more authority for shareholders, who own their companies, to control their hired bosses. The plan should have included giving shareholders the decisive power to set executive compensation—the perverse compensation incentives helped push companies to wild speculation. “
The Washington Post’s Steven Pearlstein, derided the Obama proposals for not being “grounded, first and foremost, in a thorough and independent analysis of how the crisis was allowed to develop and what regulators did and didn’t do to prevent it….” He was disappointed by the lack of controls over “hedge funds, private-equity funds or structured investment vehicles.”

This is asking for something FAR short of Socialist Democracy, of course. It is only asking for a tiny bit of justice!

Outraged, it is not as if we can just “wait these things out”! The money to working people is NOT “coming back” unless a champion of theirs TAKES IT BACK! The people in Iraq/Af-Pak/Gaza are NOT “coming back to life”. Soldiers are not re-growing brains. 14 people died today for no heatlh care, and, the “public plan” lookes to give more money to those murderers, while leaving out millions of people!

We CANNOT wait!

Obama seems to want to put justice on hold—-justice delayed is justice denied.

http://www.nader.org/

The comment that bothered me isn’t about the snitch—they exist and I write assuming it might be read by police. This IS the world’s second largest police state, right after China.

Why are Hondurans starving? This concerns me more than the pissing match between Folktruther and Outraged—the land is fertile, access to seas on both sides, near the equator. The people should be well-fed and healthy but aren’t because (1) the Catholic Church encourages unrestricted breeding; (2) American corporations via puppet governments have installed a system of serfdom which has kept people down for generations.

Sure this coup d’etat has the stench of American intervention; did anyone believe the Chinese or Cubans were somehow responsible? But was it the federal government? Probably not; that’s the huge elephant not being directly discussed, because we have no control over the real governments of this society. You’ve got to be a major player to sit on the boards of directors and what we have now reinforces the belief that if it’s free, it’s not worth much and won’t last.

Re: Folktruther

Your comment: “Outraged, attacking Obama from the left is not at all the same thing as attacking him from the right.  Attacking him politically to end the War on Terrorism is totally differnt than attacking him to continue it.”,

True…. IF and only IF the positions or ISSUES of each side are conflicting, AND you believe that Pres. Obama is NOT on your side.  So…., if we assume you are correct, and that you feel that Obama is “on their side”, then an attack would be legit.

But this is NOT what you do Folktruther.  You attack Pres. Obama, always, and on every issue.  Is there anything, anything at all Pres. Obama could do that you would acknowledge as “good for America”.  I sincerely feel that there isn’t, I really do….  from your comments that is the only interpretation I could have.

Yes, I think a lot of people think like me.  Of course, you see this as a bad thing(lol), but obviously… I do not(lol).  Skewing my words won’t help, but this is what you attempt to do simply because I disagree with you.

I understand, what yourself, KDelphi and Max Sheilds are saying, I do.  I think it true, at times.  My premise is this is not one of those times.  There’s a 24hr supposed news station devoted to trashing Pres. Obama, do you think they need help..?  You attack the MAN, not the issue…. just like Faux News.

Right now…. again, RIGHT NOW it is my position that attacking Pres. Obama will ruin any opportunity for pulling out of this crisies or regaining control of our government.  You think Pres. Obama is one of them, but you use only half of the facts….. that’s questionable.

Your comment: “If you do, than so do other redneck liberals, who Patriotically support whatever the US does, to their own determent.”

I do not “Patriotically” support everything the US does…. you only claim that, prove it.  I’ve posted here for years, if your claim is accurate there should be more than enough material for you to draw from.

Additionally, it seems to be your premise that the US never does anything right, I disagree, you act as if no one is working to right things or that everyone must jump on your bandwagon.  I’ll never happen, if for no other reason than your negativity…..

The country is in a very precarious position, and we need to band together, not divide up…. this will only help the crooks.  Have you read Matt Taibbi’s Rolling Stone article, he “kinda”, just a little,(lol) exposes some of the problem.  It’s very good.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/the_great_american_bubble_machine

I know that you are a redneck liberal, Outraged, that’s why it bothers me so much that you support Obama And American imperialism in the Honduras coup.  If you do, than so do other redneck liberals, who Patriotically support whatever the US does, to their own determent.

As KDelphi, Max and others point out, there is no way that Honduras can stand against the whole world without US support. The Washington Post is now claiming that the US just didn’t realize that the military was so crazy that they would remove Zelaya without US approval.

This is completely unbelievable to the world’s people, who have seen the US increasingly resort to violence to maintain its power.  Obama is now resorting to Implausal denial to retain the support of the Amerian people.  Which in your case he is doing.  And if you are willing to drink the coolade, so will many other Americans.

Outraged, attacking Obama from the left is not at all the same thing as attacking him from the right.  Attacking him politically to end the War on Terrorism is totally differnt than attacking him to continue it.  In the former case you are theatening him with a loss of Progressive support, and in the latter with Conservative support.  He wants both, but the latter have the money.  And he needs money to get re-elected.

If the US supports Honduras, as it is currently doing, despite its rhetoric, Honduras can run out the clock on Zelaya, and thus prevent the alliance of Honduras with the Progressive countries of Latin America. The alliance would benefit poor people. 

Preventing this alliance his can’t happen if the American population adds its voice to the world population and its polities.  But if the American people want to ‘wait and see’ then the US will simply run out the clock, as it calculated when it permitted this coup.  And the Hondorian people will continue to starve.

Folktruther—I was going by what Outraged was “replying” to. Unless he/she is replying to a post on another thread. (later—that is what she’s doing with me…)

Outraged PLEASE stop cross-posting from other threads! I already read your answer to me on the other thread, ok? If you want to “re-make” the point—-re-state it or copy it. If not, make a new one. It is very confusing.

And if someone is requesting the removal of others’ posts, they are in favor of censorship and I will not read any other posts that they make.(I wish I knew who is “reporting” people—it should bother everyone) They feel that they deserve to be heard but others do not—WRONG!

Also, Outraged, are you misunderstanding that, you can quote what Obama/Clinton are SAYING but their actions belie their true intent, ok? What Folk and Max are saying is that, Obama can have a paradoxical intention…he can state one thing, but, act to promote something completely different behind the scenes. As in health care, Af-Pak, Iraq, bailing out banks, Patriot Act, torture, “Free”
trade agreements, supporting other countries’ “soverignty”, etc

I wrote a cartoon (cant draw) that some said I should get someone to draw and post somwhere, about a month after Obama came into office. It was called “The Paradoxical President” or “Stealth Bush”..I wonder if it would b e censored…

Re: Folktruther

Your comment: “Outraged, with all these bold face types, italics, and transfers, but all your fancy city ways”

I take offense to your “fancy city ways” assertion.  I’m not certain, but it appears to me that YOU are claiming me NOT “rural” enough….. okay…lol.

I’ll tell ya’ what…., “Annie, get your gun”, I’ll show you RURAL AMERICA….. just happens to be… oh, I don’t know….. (some say) in my blood.  Either way, I’m good for it, have at ‘er, Folk"truther”.

I call and raise you, a HUNDRED.  I’ll kick your ass, or in city-speak, simply annihilate you.  I know both…. luck of the draw, for me, I guess.  I’m good for it, NO MATTER the environment….... I understand both.

In this same vein, you’re correct in assuming I happen to love the rural people, I do.  Although, as it is, my base is…. I LOVE The People, and this means Everyone, ALL.  Possibly this is a difficult concept for you….I don’t know…. but for me… it is easy…. I support The People, ALL of them.

Yep.  The “redneck liberal”, that’d be me….. this is not new…. to you perhaps, but not to me….. nor many, many others.

Good try, though.

“Long began an unprecedented public works program, building roads, bridges, hospitals and educational institutions. His bills met opposition from many legislators, citizens, and the media, but Long used aggressive tactics to ensure passage of the legislation he favored. He would show up unannounced on the floor of both the House and Senate or in House committees, corralling reluctant representatives and state senators and bullying opponents. These tactics were unprecedented, but they resulted in the passage of most of Long’s legislative agenda. By delivering on his campaign promises, Long achieved hero status among some of the state’s rural poor population.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long

Re: Folktruther

Your comment: “Do you actually believe this bullshit, Outraged?  I think you’re better than that.  Ardee changed his mind as new facts came in.  He hopes other people follow his example.”

You’re correct regarding your statement “I think you’re better than that.”  Good call.  Now what… Folktruther….. now what?  Will you DENY also the worldwide support of the actions taken by Pres. Obama and the determinations of the OAS and the U.N.?

My question is WHY….. WHY are you on the side of “conservative pundits”? As regards “ardee”, well…. it’s a horse a piece, is it not?

AL JAZEERA:
Newman said that the current crisis is the “biggest challenge that the OAS has ever had to face”.

Zelaya was removed from power as he was about to press ahead with a non-binding referendum on constitutional change.”
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/07/20097423436989868.html

Surely you must see the “writing on the wall”, I do.  What now Folktruther, what now….. expose yourself, shout your feelings from the mountaintops, go ahead…. or have I done this for you (with your assistance of course).

How long will you continue to claim the whole world is a liar, but you…. you alone, well okay… “ardee” too ARE OUR BEST BET TO truth, freedom, justice and THE FACTS.

Remember those…. I forget exactly (and right now, I’m too damn lazy to look it up) HOWEVER, it goes something like… of course, I paraphrase, “the facts are those persnickety thorns in the sides of the pernicious elements who wish to dominate all” (that’s MY interpretation anyway…. ), certainly the dirty bastards invoke, VERY SUSPECIOUSLY “injustice”, but all the while…. they know, oh… they KNOW, so CLEARLY, so much, much more than rest of us peons (except for those, MULTITUDES who’ve been paying for these crooks “indiscretions”..... shall we say…).

Your serve.

Whoops, I made a mistake about a later deletion: you got it from another thread.  You’re really good, Outraged, with all these bold face types, italics, and transfers, but all your fancy city ways still doesn’t seperate Obama from American imperialism.

The US is now the only country that recognizes Honduras according to an article on Monthly Report.The Obama administration now calls what happen a Golpe rather than a coup, goulpe being Spanish for ‘coup.’  and it isn’t a military coup because the Honduras congress was involved.  Therefore Obama is not legally oblicaged to uct of the US stipend to Honduras it being a non-military Golpe.

Do you actually believe this bullshit, Outraged?  I think you’re better than that.  Ardee changed his mind as new facts came in.  He hopes other people follow his example.  Me too.

Outraged
While I didn’t read Folktruther’s comment regarding Obama’s complicity, a couple things should be clear 1) that the US imperialism is in good hands with the neoliberal standardbearer - Prez B. Obama.

The fingerprints of the US President - who ever that may be - is always distanced, and nearly traceless until they exit the White House.

2) The US government has been training Honduran military leaders in coup takeovers when the occasion arises. This doesn’t require a confirmed letter from Obama giving “orders”.

Dismantling these forces is the purview of the President of the USA. No one else can. Kennedy feigned ignorance about Cuba and the Bay of Pigs…these things go on and even George W. Bush played the game when it was convenient - it was all Rumsfeld, then it was all Dick Cheney…

There really is only one President. Who he listens to, who he hires, who he fires, who he reads are all his decision.

Can things happen with all the layers. Very little of consequence. The President could end our empire, roll it back, alter the course of the economy given this moment in time when the Banks and Wall Street were virtually on their backs. But HE didn’t and won’t.

Therefore…you don’t need a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing.

I can’t respond, Outraged, because for some unknown reason truthdig is deleting my posts.

Major overreaction, PSmith.  I was about to do that, FYI, but I keep having problems with my system so, sometimes things are easier said than done.

But yes, it is at the link:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090630_undo_the_coup/
And this is the posting date:
By Folktruther, July 3 at 12:19 pm  (I figured Folktruther knew what he had said and where)

Anyway,

Re: Folktruther
Your comment FROM THE OTHER THREAD, linked to here  http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090630_undo_the_coup/
Posting date: Folktruther, July 4 at 3:37 pm

Your comment: “Fooosh.  thus I refute Outrage.  Read Alex Cockburn’s July 4th piece on Counterpunch which lays out the (wild-eyed) facts of American imperialism.”

This is a different debate, we were debating Pres. Obama’s complicity, NOT U.S. Imperialism.  We don’t have all the facts, the ones we DO HAVE, do not support your premise as it regards Pres. Obama.  I will try to get to the article that you linked to later.  Right now, I have things I need to do.

Fundamental mistake made in the coup in Honduras. You don’t leave anyone alive to be brought back.

THE LAST WORD

If some clot wants the last word and cross posts from one thread to another with a quote from the first thread in order to get it, would he please have the decency to include a link to the first thread. So that the rest of us don’t dismiss him as a “@!#$@#$ing idiot.”

OR he can expect his credibility to be severely tarnished. If he had any to begin with.

Undo the Coup - Amy Goodman -

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090630_undo_the_coup/

Post 2.
Re: Folktruther

Your comment: ” It is obvious to anyone knowledgeable about geo-strategy that Honduras could not make a coup like this without US support.”

Maybe Folktruther… maybe, but we do not know all the facts as yet.  The question THEN becomes which “government”, the shadow one or the real one?  There is absolutely no proof of your accusations and plenty of information which is in DIRECT conflict with your assumptions.

For example:
“The Organization of American States and most governments in the world have condemned the ouster of Honduran President Manuel Zelaya by the military last Sunday as a coup d’etat. But the people who currently hold power in Honduras say they followed legal procedures outlined in their nation’s constitution and their position is backed by many conservatives in the United States.

Even critics of President Zelaya, however, say legal means should have been used against him rather than a nighttime raid on his home by heavily armed soldiers.”
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-07-03-voa38.cfm

Why are the RIGHT-WINGERS so in favor of the coup..?  Just like they kept screaming for us to start something with Iran, no…. there is nothing to support your claims.  You know how the conservative pundits are always fighting for everyone’s rights and freedom….yeah, right!  Suddenly….. there they are right on the front line….. protecting the Hondurans’ freedoms…..phhh

Makes ya’ wonder….

I support President Obama, the U.N. and the OAS’s determination of the situation.

Post 1.
Re: Folktruther

Your comment: “But you don’t want to know that, Outraged.  Why not?  You are willing to go outside the two major parties by your support of Nader. Why are you hung up on Obama?  Most of the Obama cheerleaders, with the exception of the Zionists, have stopped posting.  But you are still ambivelent.  Why?”

This is why…..., so that I don’t HAVE to type it all again, this is from my post to KDelphi:

“Right now, especially when you consider the dangerous elements still in our government and society, it is foolish politically and as a power voice to separate up into factions.  I’m NOT saying “don’t be a democratic socialist”, what I AM SAYING, is on the issues wherein the largest amount of Americans agree….BAND TOGETHER….. this is where the power lies.

If you think trashing Pres. Obama will give you better healthcare explain, please.  I don’t see it.  Who are the enemies of healthcare reform…. TRASH those folks, not Pres. Obama.  If we can get this legislation on his desk, I think he’ll sign it…. I do.  I think the insurance companies know it, I think the AMA knows it, I think the right-wingers know it…. in fact, I think THEY’RE POSITIVE of it!  When you TRASH Pres. Obama, you shoot yourself in the foot, all you are doing is aiding and abetting the enemies of healthcare reform…. etc”
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20090630_al_franken_wins_minnesota_senate_seat/

Regarding this comment: “Why are you hung up on Obama?”

lol.  Why does it bother you that I support the things I AGREE WITH, that President Obama and his administration, or certain members of congress do…?

Really, KDelphi.  What did my first post say?  Truthdig is usally pretty good about not censoring, considering that it is a speudo-Progressive organ.

It knows,for example, that the coup could not have taken place without US and Obama support, but it doesn’t say so.  Did I?

Looks like Folktruther’s first post is “disappeared”...doesnt that bother anyone else? Because it should.

I am convinced—to support Obama is to support US Imperialism. He is “all about that”.

Look at Af-Pak (we really advanced the invasion this wknd, but, unless you watched alternative news , like DN, you would never know it)—Obamas has no UN sanctioned legal right to be advancing more troops there.

Hillary and Obmaa will not officially call it a coup (in Honduras)because the are terrified of ALBA—-wherein, they would lose some “free trade agreements” and massive amounts of corporate-owned wealth and resources.

Obama is SO corporate!

And, the only country in LA still dependent on a US military base.
Maybe if they were “making nuclear wespons”, they would get more media in Honduras. But, even “nuke armed countries” (except USA!@ USA!) are being squeezed out by the impt matters of Michael Jackson, Sarah Palin and Gov. Warner’s Romeo and Juliet story.Gag me with a silver spoon…

Fun video for the day: Obamobot preteneds that he cars about another single middle aged woman…

Enjoy the theatre!http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2009/07/video-obama-virginia-health-care-town.html

Outraged- I am interested not only in this Honduras coup but more professionally in why people WANT to believe the deceit of power.  It is obvious to anyone knowledgeable about geo-strategy that Honduras could not make a coup like this without US support.  Alex Cockburn says so vivedly and accurately in his column on Counterpunch for the weekend.  He also says that pseudo-Progressives, which he calls “pwogs,’ won’t believe it.

But he doesn’t say why.  Obama and Clinton have not stated explicitly and clearly that this is military coup d’etate, which would legally require them to cut off funds of Honduras.  The Honduras plutocracy is totally dependant on the US for finacial and military support, and would have to return Zelaya.  Obama has not stated publically that Zelaya must be returned to power.  He says the coup is illegal and Zelaya is still president, which have different power implications.

Obama is saying one thing publically and doing the opposite privately.  It is his trademark; he has done it again and again.  But you don’t want to know that, Outraged.  Why not?  You are willing to go outside the two major parties by your support of Nader. Why are you hung up on Obama?  Most of the Obama cheerleaders, with the exception of the Zionists, have stopped posting.  But you are still ambivelent.  Why?

By supporting Obama you are supporting American imperialism which has kept Latin American in grinding poverty for two centuries, largely by coups of this kind.  Obama is continuing this policy.  Why would you support it?

“Honduras has remained a country run largely by a small elite, where 70% of the population lives in poverty. (Zelaya, known for populist rhetoric and leftist alliances that made him a polarizing figure, is a wealthy rancher and timber tycoon.) Congress is controlled by two old-fashioned political parties, based more on tradition and family than ideology.”—Folktruther

Hmm…that sounds a lot like a much larger country to the north. I wonder if this is why Obama’s loath to initiate political reform? We’ve already had one coup in the U.S. this century—another would cement our identity as the kingpin of Banana Republics.

A continuation regarding comments posted to the article submitted by Amy Goodman:

Re: Folktruther

Your comment: “The president is a liar.  Obama’s duplicity in this case is to OK the coup while publically regretting it.  He has not condemned it as a military coup because tnen he would be required by law to cut off funds for Honduras,”

Mere speculation and accusation, it IS being addressed, aside from YOUR hardline attempts to imply otherwise.  According to you, THE WHOLE WORLD revolves around Pres. Barak Obama, a specious assumption to say the least.  You may want to check with THE WORLD before asserting such wild-eyed speculations.

The LATS:
“The politicians now sitting in the presidential palace argue that the soldiers who rousted Zelaya from his bedroom before dawn Sunday and deported him to Costa Rica were acting to save democracy, after, they allege, Zelaya’s many abuses of power.

Despite some progress, Honduras has remained a country run largely by a small elite, where 70% of the population lives in poverty. (Zelaya, known for populist rhetoric and leftist alliances that made him a polarizing figure, is a wealthy rancher and timber tycoon.) Congress is controlled by two old-fashioned political parties, based more on tradition and family than ideology.
“
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-honduras4-2009jul04,0,229012.story

And from UPI:
“TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras, July 4 (UPI)—Four United Nations human rights experts Thursday joined U.N. leaders in voicing serious concern over last weekend’s coup d’etat in Honduras.

They called for the democracy to be restored immediately and decried curbs on fundamental freedoms. The experts cited reported arrests, threats and harassment of social leaders, journalists and defenders of human rights.”
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/07/04/More-UN-officials-decry-Honduran-coup/UPI-40001246683468/

But this is not necessarily a condition where one “runs in with tanks and guns ablazing”, it needs to be worked out.  The People do NOT want a dictator, right OR left.  The OAS and the UN, HAVE condemned this situation, this includes the United States of America (on both counts), your conjecture that “The president is a liar” is without merit.

However, this is not news, since when have “The People” EVER endorsed these types of dictatorships….. NEVER, never have…. never will.  These articles do not support your premise.  And YES….. they ARE calling it a “coup d’etat”.

The Truthdig article from BBC:
“Speaking to reporters, the OAS chief said: “We wanted to ask that this situation [Mr Zelaya’s removal] be reversed. Unfortunately, one must say that there appears to be no willingness to do this.”

Ending his visit to Honduras, he said the change of government last week had unequivocally been a “military coup”.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8133981.stm

And the US media of course remains mostly silent because Zelaya is a jolly-looking fellow with a cool hat, who cares if he was elected by the people and deposed by the military? Besides, he’s not some evil Persian who’s hiding phantom nuclear weapons. Obama’s deliberately lazy attitude towards the coup is also shameful. He knows he could cut all aid to the coup regime and with one phone call have Zelaya back in a flash, but of course he was too busy smiling and hugging Alvaro Uribe of Colombia who has the worst human rights record in the hemisphere.

Hugo, its time to send some advisors to the resistance!

ah ... the refreshing return of the banana republics.  It is wonderful to know our investment in the School of the Americas is paying dividends.  Soon the empire will return to its glory days when Reagan ran the world the way it was meant to be run.  Its ours and they simply need to do it our way