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Cynthia McKinney Detained in Israel

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Posted on Jul 2, 2009
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Former U.S. Rep. Cynthia McKinney is being held in a detention center in Ramle, Israel, after venturing out to sea with about 20 other activists to provide aid to Gazans as part of the “Free Gaza Movement.” The ship Spirit of Humanity was intercepted by the Israeli navy before the group could reach its destination. McKinney will be sent back to the U.S. soon, the American Embassy said.

CNN:

Former U.S. Rep. Cynthia McKinney—who was aboard a ship the Israeli navy intercepted this week—is in a detention center and will be returned to the United States, the U.S. Embassy said.

McKinney was among those on a ship that the Israeli Defense Forces said violated an Israeli blockade and crossed into Gazan waters on Tuesday.

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By ardee, July 7, 2009 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

“The US ruling class is using Zionist among Dems in the same way they are using religious fundamentalism omong Gops, to serve their power interests.

Ed Harges point is that we have to oppose Zionists, and their enablers, vigorously to develop a progressive movement directed at the US ruling “

Well, Folktruther, then it would seem logical to oppose the US ruling class, their democratic and republican stooges, and stop making unsupportable charges that a few million Jews run the world.

Jews are, after all, notoriously progressive in fact. They just might be put off by such shallow and offensive charges. If you want to build a leftist coalition you are alienating the leftist Jews right off the bat. And doing it for nothing as it is still white anglo saxon Protestants who are running things.

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By Folktruther, July 7, 2009 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

You are quite right, Ardee, ‘Zionist enabler’ is a much better term to discribe you than ‘soft Zionist.’  And I agree with you, although not for the reason you give, that the Israel tail is not wagging the US dog.  The US ruling class is using Zionist among Dems in the same way they are using religious fundamentalism omong Gops, to serve their power interests.

Ed Harges point is that we have to oppose Zionists, and their enablers, vigorously to develop a progressive movement directed at the US ruling class, and he is quite right, of course.

When McKinney was trying to break the starvation blockade of Gaza, supported by Zionists and their enablers, she was doing the people’s work.  that is why she is hated so viriently by Zionists, that and the usual racism.

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By Robert, July 6, 2009 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

Our IDF

By Gideon Levy

“July 06, 2009 “Haaretz”—Combat is the best, my brother, as the famous bumper sticker reads. It’s a good thing we have Shayetet 13. Operating at the crack of dawn - or was it before nightfall? - the daring naval commandos fearlessly took control of a rusty, rickety, unarmed boat bobbing in the middle of the sea. That’s exactly why we have a naval commando force - to take control of ships offering humanitarian aid. Behold, the guardian of Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps. The military correspondents reported on the incident with an amazement that only they can muster. But even they could not provide a fig leaf for the operation: The Israel Defense Forces has once again used its power to overcome the weak; the navy has once again acted like pirates. The Arion was abducted in the framework of protecting Israel’s security for all eternity, blah, blah, blah.

Soldiers, journalists and news consumers automatically refrain from asking questions. The navy captured another ship carrying symbolic aid, as if its passengers were Somali pirates. These were people of conscience from various countries carrying toys and medicine.

This was not the navy’s first daring operation of this kind, nor will it be the last. When there are no hostile aid ships on the horizon, the navy takes control of wretched Gazan boats, using water hoses or firing at its passengers - poor fishermen who only want to make a living at sea. This is the main activity unfolding off Gaza’s shores. A navy outfitted with the best arsenal in the world is hunting surfboards. One of the best-armed forces in the world is chasing children, examining old people’s documents and entering bedrooms to make arrests.

We ought to pay close attention to what preoccupies our military. While defense officials hold discussions on buying the F-35 combat jet at $200 million per plane, the IDF is mostly busy with miserable, pointless police work that befits an occupation army. It is engaged in ludicrous and useless policing in a “war” against people equipped with some of the most primitive weapons in the world.

In the dead of night, soldiers in elite and not-so-elite units break into the homes of Palestinians, some of whom are guilty of no crime, and needlessly awaken and frighten women and children. Their comrades spend their service standing at checkpoints, occasionally shooting and killing needlessly. Other soldiers chase after children throwing stones or Molotov cocktails and shoot at them. “A huge terrorist attack” that was thwarted near the security fence in Gaza a month ago was to be carried out by “a force” that numbered eight Palestinians, some of them mounted on mules. The mule-rider’s brigade - these are the forces against us.”

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22991.htm

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By Sepharad, July 6, 2009 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment

tman, I hope you’re wrong. I know too many people, Arabs and Jews, who are trying very hard to make things work better—who understand there’s plenty of blame to go around on both sides and beyond but would still rather fix things than lose everything—but I’m not naive, and know it could come to what you describe. Am just not ready to give up, though, as long as there are enough people on both sides trying as hard as they are. Sorry if I went off on you. It’s just so damned frustrating, knowing how much good will is there on both sides. And it all very well could come to nothing by some crazy lunatic on either side or on both sides, as both sides have them. Benny Morrison, a fine historian, is somewhat pessimistic; Amos Oz, author and peace activist, still sees hope even though he is very wise, no starry-eyed idealist.

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By tman, July 6, 2009 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

re:sepharad:
There is no other solution for Israel.Neither side will ever accept a two state solution. They either merge as one or one of them has to be driven out or die like the “beasts on tow legs they are”.

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By Sepharad, July 6, 2009 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment

tman, can’t decide whether you are oversimplifying a complex issue, want to blow up the entire region, or are a garden-variety Nazi or, more likely, all of the above. People like you make it very hard for people like me to push back (against Netanyahu/Lieberman policies) and push forward Peace Now agenda, i.e. two states cooperating economically, one being Israel, the other a Palestine with an army and police to hold off enemies without and within. As Batman’s sidekick said in “THE DARK KNIGHT”, some people just like to see the world burn.

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By ardee, July 6, 2009 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, July 6 at 12:02 pm #

I see what you mean, Ed. Ardee illustrates it perfectly.  Zionism stands in the way of developing a left that is clear and definite against US oppression, even though that oppression is mandated by the US ruling class.  You have to attack Zionism, including hte soft Zionism of Ardee, to create a left capable of effectively attacking the US ruling class.
.........................................

Soft Zionism is such a wishy washy term,FT, and , as I stand firmly against Israeli territorial expansion, most inaccurate I fear.

Far better you said, Zionist enabler….you’d still be wrong but a bit less so perhaps. My main bone of contention with you guys is that a nation of 7 million controlling a nation of 300 million is the tail wagging the dog.

Supporting Israel is a neocon’s wet dream, and a religious righties road to the rapture. It is that simple I think. There are approx. 13 million Jews in the world, 5.6 million in Israel and 5.1 million here in the USA, yet some, you and Mr. Harges being two evidently, believe they wield influence all out of proportion to their numbers.

In a nation wherein the white anglo saxon Protestant still controls about everything of value or importance, and still excludes Jews from their clubs and boardrooms, to think that foreign policy decisions are made with deference to these ( excluded ) jews misses the point of a strong presence in oil rich lands.

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By tman, July 6, 2009 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

The better solution to the Israeli, Iran issue is to bomb Israel till there is no building left standing and to arm the Palestinians to do the cleanup if theres anything left.

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By Sepharad, July 6, 2009 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi, on the “Sarkozy” thread I noted that an Israeli broadcast news online outlet reported that Saudi Arabia and Syria have offered Israel their airspace to attack Iran. I suggested that Biden knew this before he made his comment. If Saudis and Syrians want Israel to attack Iran, it’s probably a very bad idea. (I don’t think Israel should attack Iran unless and until Iran gives small nuclear weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas.) We have no idea of what is really going on in Iran, especially now that the Qom clerics are pushing for a recount.

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By Folktruther, July 6, 2009 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment

Notice, too, KDelphi, that bombing Iran, after a “Stolen Election,”  where it is alleged that the vast majority of people voted for the “Reform” candidates, would mean bombing a people who opposed a tyrancial power structure.  If the people are against the power structure, why bomb them?

But these ‘subtle’ discrepancy, as Orwell commented on long ago, are simply not noticed by the population.  the population is so confused by the offical truth that one discrepancy doesn’t stand out among so many.

That is how power structures can tell the most outrageous lies and get away with it.  they don’t have to make sense.  If the authorized power tells it, that means it’s true.  If the powerful do it, that means its legal.

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By KDelphi, July 6, 2009 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

Folk and Ed—I know people who have been completely disowned by Jewish families, for coming out against Zionism.

Did anyone else hear Biden this weekend? http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-gen/ap/US_President_And_White_House_Advisers/US_US_Iran_Israel.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

On Israel bombing Iran: (Ignoring, per usual that we supply the weapons)

“Look, Israel can determine for itself — it’s a sovereign nation — what’s in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else,” Biden replied. He added that this was the case, “whether we agree or not” with the Israeli view.

Biden was then asked more pointedly whether the U.S. would stand in the way if the Israelis, viewing the prospect of an Iranian nuclear bomb as a threat to the existence of the Jewish state, decided to launch a military attack against Iranian nuclear facilities.

“Look, we cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do,” he said.

Pressed further on this point with a reminder that the U.S. could impede an Israeli strike on Iran by prohibiting it from using Iraqi air space, Biden said he was “not going to speculate” beyond saying that Israel, like the U.S., has a right to “determine what is in its interests.”


Natenyahu’s “blah blah blah” on the “willingness of Iranians people to take bullets for freedom” doesnt comfort me much, either…

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By Folktruther, July 6, 2009 at 9:02 am Link to this comment

I see what you mean, Ed. Ardee illustrates it perfectly.  Zionism stands in the way of developing a left that is clear and definite against US oppression, even though that oppression is mandated by the US ruling class.  You have to attack Zionism, including hte soft Zionism of Ardee, to create a left capable of effectively attacking the US ruling class.

Just as in war you have to shoot at soldiers even though it is those who hire and arm the soldiers that are responsible.  But, while doing so, it is necessary to point out the chain of power and, in capitalist powers, the ultimate source of the oppression, the controllers of the economy.  And only a fraction is controled by the Jewish rich.

the difference, then, between right wing anti-semitism, which has been inherited in the Christian religion, and left wing anti-Zionism, and Zionism also also has a religious basis, is the distinction of opposing a people or a power.  The right opposes the Jewish people and the left oppose Jewish power, Zionism.

Indeed, Zionism is perfectly willing to attack the Jewish people, Israel imprisoning Falk, firing and rejecting Finclestein, attacking Jewish professors, etc.  They are making Israel a homeland for Zionists not Jews.

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By ardee, July 6, 2009 at 3:01 am Link to this comment

Ed Harges, July 5 at 8:02 pm #

The gist of your comment seems to boil down to ; “if I do not agree with you I must be an ally of the dark side”. Life is not as you assume it to be, issues are not as simple as you wish to make them, and all these things are complex and nuanced.

I can reject both the actions of Israel towards the Palestinian people, the actions of the extremists among the Arab world against Israel, the complicity of my govt. in all these actions, and the notion of a vast Jewish conspiracy to subvert our democratic process to the benefit of Israel and all Jews.

and I do.

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By Ed Harges, July 5, 2009 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

Re:By ardee, July 5 at 7:26 pm:

As far as the concept of our foreign policy being, even in part, determined by the threat of labeling as anti-Semitic any who oppose helping Israel to continue to slaughter Palestinians, I just dont see it.

Of course you don’t see it, Ardee, even though you yourself are quick to level this charge, because you damn well know its power. That’s the beauty of this setup, Ardee: even Jews who disagree with the policies promoted by AIPAC are so quick to label as anti-Semitic anyone pointing to the power of Israel in US politics and news media, that you effectively function as AIPAC’s henchmen. Can you please, please try to digest the meaning of the fact that even the Congressional Black Caucus can’t bring itself to utter a peep of support for McKinney — that they in fact don’t dare to make a statement of any kind on the matter? Can you please try to comprehend the meaning of the fact that her outrageous imprisonment in Israel does not exist on US TV cable news? “Opponents” of AIPAC like you and ITW are in fact its unwitting best friends.

A principled American rejection of the “bad Israel” cannot take root and grow without a principled rejection of Israel’s racist raison d’etre, which cuts to the heart of the organized left in this country. We need a new, principled, post-Zionist, in fact anti-Zionist mainstream liberalism in this country, and it can’t be born until Zionism is effectively discredited. That is what you, Ardee, despite saying so many of the right things, actively prevent.

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By ardee, July 5, 2009 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

As far as the concept of our foreign policy being ,even in part, determined by the threat of labeling as anti-Semitic any who oppose helping Israel to continue to slaughter Palestinians, I just dont see it.

Perhaps some ‘liberals’ might be so influenced, but to think the entire left so cowardly seems to much of a reach. Besides, the legislators are not liberals , excepting for a very few, and it is they and the president who make such policies.

I do not claim to speak for the entire left, noone does, it is a much too fractious place. But I do work with and among such folks and have for a very long time without seeing any hold back opinions in fear of being called an epithet of any nature.

I think it far more likely that , as Israel has been almost our only reliable ally in that region, and given our overreaching strategy to monopolize the shrinking supplies of oil, we have allowed them to hold far too much importance and thus have far too much influence. I further believe that this situation is coming close to changing.

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By Ed Harges, July 5, 2009 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment

re: By Folktruther, July 5 at 4:36 pm:

But FT, I’ve explained to you before: Israel is the crucial component, because Israel is what enables what would be the left in this country to be co-opted and silenced, so that we get a right wing foreign policy, obsessively focused on killing Arabs and Muslims in the Middle East, no matter which party is in power.

Yes, there are other elite elements which favor this policy of perpetual war, but Israel’s lobby, with its unique power to neutralize liberal critics by slapping them with the scarlet letter A for anti-Semitism,  is what makes it impossible to construct a political opposition.

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By Folktruther, July 5, 2009 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

While it is true, Ed, that the sovernty of the American people is a bad joke, it is not because of the power of Israel, but because of the power of the Amerian ruling class. The ruling class forms a power structure that uses Zionism among Dem Progressives the way they use fundimentalism to delude Gop Conservatives.  Zionism is the Dem support for neoloiberalism in the same way that right wing (Zionist) religion supports neo-conservatism.

I previously thought that the Israeli tail was wagging the US dog.  But as you say, this was inexplicable and did not conform to a number of specific incidents.  The current incident, for example, is the Israeli hijacking of American citizens in open waters.  Why doesn’t the US defend its own citizens?

You could argue because Israel captured US power.  But the US didn’t do so in Latin America either, or the journalist that got killed in Mexico.  there were American people in Iraq to prevent the invasion and bombing of it, and the US invaded and bombed anyway.  Was it Israel they were defending or did they want to control Iraqi oil.  both of course, but predominantly the latter.  In capitalist economices, money and power trumps blood, and, certainly, friendship.

In implementing the starvation blockade and imprisoning Americans, Israel is primarily doing US bidding.  As in the war on Lebanon.  In both cases it is against Israel’s long term intersts, but they need US money.  Just like US politicians need ruling class money to win elections.  And Jews are only a quarter of the US ruling class.  The rest of the ruling class goes along with Zionism because it is to their power interests to do so.

the major problem is capitaism, not Zionism.  However, of course, zionist support capitalism, neoliberalism and oppression to promote the power of israel. Sucicidally, as the people of the world turn against its brutality.  therefore we have to oppose Zionism while realizing that there is soemthing even worse behind it; the US ruling class.

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By hippie4ever, July 5, 2009 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

Ed, great July 4th post.

“WE DON’T HAVE TO UNDERSTAND YOU. We have the right not to be interested. Our own country is already too complex for anybody to understand. Fk yours. We wish to terminate our servitude to you, and we simply don’t care if we ever understand you. We will never understand Hitler either. We’re OK with that.”

I’d like to understand Hitler better though; exactly under what circumstances he withdrew from the arts and embraced fascism. And his self-loathing about his own Jewishness that resulted in the racial purity laws and the Final Solution.  Mailer’s last novel “Castle in the Forest” was a worthy attempt but raised as many questions as it answered.

I suspect genetic damage via inbreeding explains a lot about both Hitler and George W Bush. Those rich Texans stay in their compounds with extended family and little birth control, a recipe for disaster. And Alois’ father married his niece but that was common and 25 percent of Vienna was inbred by the 19th century.

Empire (vampyre?) needed new blood but instead it spilt that of 50 million and I wonder, what is the body count for all the American and Israeli imperialist wars? How many millions including the victims of Monsanto’s corporatist control over the food supply? And not to forget IBM, who made it all possible with their mainframes.

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By Ed Harges, July 5, 2009 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment

Re: By tman, July 5 at 2:51 pm:

Good one!

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By tman, July 5, 2009 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

The Black Caucus is now to be known as “The Yellow Caucus”.

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By Ed Harges, July 5, 2009 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

Re: By Robert, July 4 at 12:10 am:

Thanks for posting this item, Robert.

It cuts right through and exposes the heart of the matter, which is the seemingly inexplicable yet undeniable stranglehold that Israel has on our government.

It’s just astonishing that as we celebrate our “independence”, we must face the fact that our sovereignty is effectively a joke, given that even the Congressional Black Caucus is too terrified of Israel to utter a word of support for McKinney.

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By KDelphi, July 5, 2009 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

The Dems (including many in the CBC) abandoned the brave McKinney a long time ago. And its shameful.

Good article by Cockburn on the abandonment of McKinney:http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn0821.html

And, a GREAT article by McKinney, on Counterpunch:
http://www.counterpunch.org/mckinney08272008.html

(before the election in 2008—she was the Green Party nominee for president)

“Grassroots Democratic Party activists want a livable wage! A “Medicare-for-all” type of health care system, repeal of the Bush tax cuts that have ushered in the greatest income inequality in this country since the Great Depression. But the Democratic Party has shown itself to be incapable of providing even a semblance of the values even of its own activists….

...The Democratic Party’s national leadership gave us the Iran Naval Blockade bill, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act, and telecom immunity. They continue to fund war and occupation to the tune of $720 million a day while our children graduate from college tens—or even hundreds—of thousands of dollars in debt. Entire cities are going into receivership while the Democratic leadership in Congress gives the Pentagon one half trillion dollars annually with no accountability, no strings attached. That’s over and above spending for war…”

It was a campaign speech. She seems to meant her campaign speeches…

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By PatrickHenry, July 5, 2009 at 7:50 am Link to this comment

Ed, great comment on the 4th.

Incidents like Mckinneys capture by Israeli pirates usually have me writing my congresscritter Steny Hoyer, my sell out representative from Maryland. Futile maybe, however I copy Barbara Mulkasi and Ben Cardin as well as Obama at http://www.congress.org.

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By Robert, July 5, 2009 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

Informed Comment


Saturday, July 04, 2009

Mediterranean Piracy on the Fourth

“US hostages held in foreign country on Fourth of July, including a former Congresswoman, after having been captured in a naked act of piracy in international waters after the Americans attempted to respond to a crisis provoked by crimes against humanity, as detailed by Amnesty International.

Once upon a time, Americans would have had the guts to mind such a thing.

See also Paul Craig Roberts.

“Gazans and other Palestinians under Israeli occupation do not enjoy “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” and have not been able to “institute” a “government” of their own to secure those rights. The occupation authority that rules them does not derive its “powers” from the “consent of the governed” The occupation government has become destructive to these ends. I think we know what the American Founding Fathers would say the Palestinians need.”

http://www.juancole.com

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By Druthers, July 5, 2009 at 2:56 am Link to this comment

When we, the US and Israel seize ships it is not piracy, it is called intercepting - after all, are we poor polluted food-deprived populations?  Of course not, just as eavesdropping and reading email is called “Protecting America,” when WE break the law it is because we are good.
Rogue nations make their own laws, they do not have to break the law, they make the law, to suit themselves. 
It is evident that we are besieged by horrible people just waiting to invade us.  Warships, aircraft carriers and landing ships and fully armed soldiers will soon debark on the shores of North Dakota and Iowa and we, poor defenceless little us and poor defenceless little Israel, with hardly anything other than an arsonal of atomic weapons such as the world has never seen to defend ourselves, hemmed in, surrouhnded by military bases on all sides as we flit around the world draped in our love of democracy and our overflowing good-will, are so misunderstood. 
How is it that the naturel intelligence of our great Generals, that is so evident in all their TV appearences, passes unnoticed?
Why is the world so unappreciative of all that we do?  Remember trickle down.  It worked for us - didn’t it? On a world-wide scale it works just the same way.  We get what we want, land, ressources, money, power, they get the crumbs and they get to be our allies - or is that our colonies.
We don’t need to worry, there will be NEW words for all the old actions so they won’t be what they used to be.
Change = Branding day.

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By Sepharad, July 4, 2009 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

cyrena, good to have you back. We never (or rarely) agree but you’re one of the best and clearest debaters.

Ed Harges, you have a point. At the moment, most Americans, including me, are more worried about this country’s near state of collapse—not that I understand what can be done about it, though despite his less-than-heroic policies Obama is a great improvement over Bush.

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By Robert, July 4, 2009 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

Ed Harges, your July 4th comment/post at 3:51 PM is really a great comment & I commend you for your courage and telling it like it is.

The sad part is does anyone from our elected senators/ congressmen/congresswomen dares to come close to saying such words?

Israel attacked Gaza for over 22 days & used just about every weapon on a mostly unarmed civilian population…killing over 1400 civilians with many of them women and children. Israel’s aggression has been over one IDF soldier, Gilad, who is held by Hamas, while Israel holds over 10,000 Palestinian prisoners in its rotten prisons for many years and most of them without any charges.

And now Israel kidnaps a former American congresswoman and other peaceful nationals while most of America just remains quiet. Truly sad & unacceptable situation!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cyrena…Where have you been? I haven’t seen much of your comments lately. Hope that you are doing well & its good to see your comments back on TD.

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By tman, July 4, 2009 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

There is one law that Israel has that I fully agree with. The one that states that only Jews are allowed to live in Israel. All countries should pass a law that Jews can only live in Israel, nowhere else and implement it immediately. The downside of it is the Obama administration would have to replace almost everyone, Congress would suffer a severe income drop and the federal reserve bank would cease to exist and wall street would look like a ghost town.

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By cyrena, July 4, 2009 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

By Ed Harges, July 4 at 3:51 pm

“WE DON’T HAVE TO UNDERSTAND YOU. We have the right not to be interested. Our own country is already too complex for anybody to understand. Fk yours. We wish to terminate our servitude to you, and we simply don’t care if we ever understand you. We will never understand Hitler either. We’re OK with that.”

Aw Ed, I LOVE this!! The entire post, but specifically this part. One of your best.

Meantime, Cynthia reminds me of myself, which means that she actually should have expected this. If anyone wants to hear the statement that she has recorded from the Israeli jail cell block, they have it available at the Black Commentator. (sorry I don’t have the link, but you can find it easily enough.)

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By Ed Harges, July 4, 2009 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

Dear Israelis: Through your illegal lobby and your agents who spy on us and control our media, the American people are constantly being compelled to hand their asses to Israel on a platter. That’s what gives us a right to pass judgment on Israel. Israel demands this kind of support from us, so it becomes our business to decide, based on our interests, not yours, whether Israel is a piece of crap or not. And so we get to look at Zionism, from our point of view, not yours. And those of us Americans who decide that Zionism is racial supremacist crap have every right to say so. And you know what? We don’t care about all your endless histories of tit and tat, all these fine points of doctrine which you always throw up at us, like obfuscating dust, to prove to us that we don’t understand and never could and never will, and so we must continue to support and praise you no matter what the fk you do.

WE DON’T HAVE TO UNDERSTAND YOU. We have the right not to be interested. Our own country is already too complex for anybody to understand. Fk yours. We wish to terminate our servitude to you, and we simply don’t care if we ever understand you. We will never understand Hitler either. We’re OK with that.

If I weren’t so sure that war is never the answer, I’d say that Israel should be forced to hand McKinney back unharmed NOW, or face a US bombing of all of its nuclear facilities and air bases.

God damn, I hate our country’s subservience to Israel so much. And because of that, I’m not ashamed to despise Israel. I loathe, hate, detest Israel. It’s the only natural response.

Get your goddam bloody stinking claws off of our congress.

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By hippie4ever, July 4, 2009 at 9:59 am Link to this comment

“The only solution to the Israeli problem requires attacking Israel.”—Folktruther

We all know that’s not going to happen; however, the U.S. could drastically cut foreign aid to Israel. That would send a powerful message, and reign in the 51st state of the union.

I’m worried for the Palestinians in Gaza, the worlds largest concentration camp. How could a Jewish state create such an inhumane monstrosity after THEIR collective experience at Auswitz-Birkenau, Triblinka, Dachau? Clearly Americans do not own the exclusive on stupidity and amnesia.

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By Robert, July 3, 2009 at 9:10 pm Link to this comment

Weekend Edition
July 3-5, 2009

No Comment on Kidnapping of McKinney

Black Caucus Muzzled

By RUSSELL MOKHIBER


“Got to hand it to J. Jioni Palmer.

He’s learned the ropes of Washington well.

Palmer is the spokesperson for the Congressional Black Caucus.

Rang up Palmer on Wednesday.

Wanted to know whether the Congressional Black Caucus and
Congresswoman Barbara Lee (D-California), it’s chair, had any comment
on the hijacking of the Free Gaza boat – the Spirit of Humanity.

On board – a former Congressional Black Caucus member – Cynthia McKinney.

On June 30th 2009 Israeli Occupation Forces forcibly boarded the boat.

They kidnapped McKinney, Nobel peace prize laureate Mairead Maguire and
19 other human rights workers and journalists who were on their way to
deliver much needed humanitarian and reconstruction supplies to
besieged Gaza.

So, I just wanted to know from Jioni Palmer – uh, given that McKinney
is a former member of the Congressional Black Caucus, you have a
comment on the hijacking, right?

No comment, Jioni said.

Okay, Jioni, how do I spell your name.

What, you are going to quote me saying no comment?

No, Jioni, I’m going to quote you as saying – We’re so freaked out
about pissing off AIPAC, that of course, we’re not going to issue a
statement condemning the hijackers. Who gives a rat’s ass whether
Cynthia McKinney is being held in a jail in the Israeli port city of
Ashdod?

Because that’s what you should say, Jioni, if you were telling the truth.

But you’re BS-ing your way – the Washington way.

You send me an e-mail asking exactly what I’m after.

I tell you.

So you say – uh, well, let me get back to you.

You don’t get back to me.

I ring you up again.

I’m trying to get something for you – you say.

My apologies if I don’t meet your deadline—you say.

Well, don’t apologize to me, Jioni.

Apologize to the Palestinian prisoners of Gaza.

It’s not about you or me or McKinney and her colleagues in jail in Israel.

It’s about basic human decency.”


http://www.counterpunch.org/mokhiber07032009.html

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By Folktruther, July 3, 2009 at 8:44 pm Link to this comment

The only solution to the Israeli problem requires attacking Israel.  Kdelphi, suppose Denmark suddenly went bonkers and gained influence in, say, Germany with the slogan “Denmark, Denmark uber alles!”  ‘One Denmark from the Atlantic to the Urals!’

You think this farfetched?  It is what happened to Israel.  They do not represent Jews. they tortured the guy for years who was the son of a Rabbi for telling the truth about their nueclear bombs.  They mistreated Falk when he was a UN representative. They refused admittance to Finklestein.  They are putting that gay plumber in prison for helping the Palestinians.  They shoot at Jewish demonstrators along with Palestinians.

What Israel is the home of is not Jews, but Zionists.  Crazy zioists like Chosen, bloodthirsty Zionists like Nefesh, fascist racists like Sepharad.  If I went to Israel they would probably imprison and torture me, like they do the Paestinians.  Israel is the homeland of Zionist lemmings, increasinly bloodthirsty, and increasingly repressive.  Against both Jews and Palestinians.

The American zionists are the worst.  They make up a third of the settlers, and provide money to Zionist racists.  Adelson, a Zionist billionaire, has an institute there that is run by Sharansky, a leader of the right wing Russians in Israel.  That money and support is probably the reason that the racist Lieberman was absurdly made the foreign minister.  And the US supports Israel no matter what it does because it is an asset of US foreign policy.

And these crooks and gangsters and fascists who head Israel pretend to be the leaders of all Jews. And they have an enormous amount of journalists, like Sepharad,  doing damage control for them in the US and Europe.  there is no alternaative to attacking Israel.  they are not amenable to reason.  They are attached to a historical trajectory fastened there by US money.

Whatever solution prevails, one state, two state, or what ever, it can only be imposed by countering ISraeli violence with a political-military movement.  Fortunately the US is rapidly losing power historically and this solution may be imposed in our lifetime.  In any case Israel will not last more than a few decades with its current power structure.

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By Robert, July 3, 2009 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

Gideon Levy on the “inhumane and illegal siege”

Spoil Them Rotten

01.03.2009 | Haaretz
By Gideon Levy

“For the past several weeks it has been very hard to get coffee in Gaza. Gas is dirt cheap (NIS 2.40 per liter), and diesel is even cheaper (NIS 1.70); it’s all flowing through the tunnels from Egypt. But there is no coffee. Only after inquiring at a number of grocery stores might you find a bag of coffee, but the grocer will sell you only 250 grams for NIS 18 shekels - an exorbitant price in Gaza. Coffee, as you know, is not a “humanitarian” item; you can live without it. And indeed, Gaza has gone over to tea. Spoil them rotten - that’s Israel’s Gaza policy.

Every few weeks there’s a shortage of another item. Water is in sufficient supply for the time being, but electricity is intermittent. They are repairing the power station but there aren’t any spare parts. You try living in the Gaza heat and poverty without electricity. On Tuesday, for example, the electricity supply to Beit Lahia was cut off for hours. They have begun to clear away the rubble from Operation Cast Lead, but they haven’t started to rebuild, not even a room, except for mud houses, because there is no cement and gravel.

The $2 billion promised with much ceremony at the Sharm el-Sheikh summit about six months ago - of it $900 million from the new America under President Barack Obama - is lying in vaults at the international banks. A senior American diplomat explained a few days ago that his country is not transferring the money “because Israel is objecting,” and an American law prohibits trading with Hamas. He said this in utter seriousness, as if there were no American commitment to transfer the money, and as if the great America were dependent on Israel. However, the burden of Gaza’s suffering is also weighing on Obama’s shoulders: Without its rehabilitation, his great promise is hollow.

The Hamas government has been in existence for two years and the siege on Gaza continues at full strength and cruelty. Washington is busy with the fate of the Migron settlement, Israel is busy with the Dudu Topaz case, and the world has lost interest. When there are no terror attacks, there are no Arabs: When Gaza isn’t shooting, it is abandoned to its fate. That is the message Israel is sending its imprisoned neighbors: Launch Qassams and we’ll take an interest in you, don’t launch Qassams and we won’t take an interest. Only abducted soldier Gilad Shalit is still reminding us of Gaza’s existence: The activists for his release demonstrated again last week. But instead of demonstrating for the release of Palestinian prisoners, they demonstrated for tightening the siege and collective punishment. Only Gilad was born to be free.

The mass experiment on human beings has failed miserably; two years is enough time to determine this. Not one of the siege’s aims have been achieved and the damage is only piling up, perhaps for all eternity. Folly and malevolence, a fairly common combination, have melded into one of Israel’s most fateful mistakes. Even if we leave aside the moral aspect of the inhumane and illegal siege, it is no longer possible to ignore its stupidity as a policy. Shalit has not been released - no siege is going to free him. Hamas has not fallen - the group is only more firmly establishing its regime. And above all, a new reality is developing before our eyes that is worse for Israel than all its predecessors.”


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/gideon-levy-on-the-inhumane-and-illegal-siege/

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By ardee, July 3, 2009 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

Chosenbygod, July 3 at 9:40 am #

Quote me a time Jesus preached to a goy
......................

Not that it will make the slightest difference to you, fixated as you appear to be but do you not remember the conversation between Jesus and the Roman soldier, concerning ones obligation to authority? “Render unto Caeser that which is his….” That was an example of Jesus preaching to a “goy”. Unlike you Jesus was not consumed by hatred and would have spoken to all I think.

Sepharad, July 3 at 4:32 pm #

KDelphi, I too wish every article on the Middle East didn’t devolve into Zionist arguments, but most TDers idea of comment on the Middle East is to attack Israel, hence people who believe in the right of Israel to exist respond. Zionists, like anti-Israel folk, come in all flavors.
........................

It does make any conversation almost impossible, unless you carry it on between the twaddle. I continue to be critical of the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF vis-a-vis the genocidal attacks upon Palestinians in Gaza, as should any compassionate human being.

But much of this stuff has little if anything to do with reality.

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By PatrickHenry, July 3, 2009 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment

You wonder why Israel has so many detractors.

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2009/06/hey-bubbe-look-what-i-did-to-arab.html

One day, one of their victims will come back and bomb the living shit out of them and maybe even turn Tel Aviv into a parking lot. 

Bullies are seldom missed when they go.

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By KDelphi, July 3, 2009 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

If a people want a theocracy, they shuld have to defend it with their own money.

That being said, responding to CBG’s crap with more crap like, “the Palestinians will have a bigger population”, just, as I said, descends into drivel.

I’ve said this before, too. My family’
s “homeland” would be Denmark. I know where my father lived there. I cannot , however, go back and expect to claim that land, in the name of Aryan protestants!

My father lost claim when he got on a boat and came here. Denmark if the ‘homeland” of Northern European protestants, but any color or religion can become a citizen there..

They also request that their own citizens pay taxes to support their generous social safety net. But, I cant go there and claim citizenship, residency (paid for) , free college, health care or anything else in Scandanavia.(except as a guest or WorkCamp volunteer)

The US economy is in deep sh*t.

We cant afford an Empire and most are realizing that they dont want one..

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By diamond, July 3, 2009 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

‘I figured most people in america don’t think Jews control everything.what I was hoping is that someone would agree with me that historically when people start saying things like my country is secretly run by Jews and god is angry with Jews for not believing in Jesus, the Jews broke their covenant with god by not worshipping Jesus and therefore have no religious claims to their land. That these things are the normal precursor to antisemitic events biggest of all the holocaust. Even if you think I am a looney toon does not one person on this blog see the potential in these kind of traditional antisemetic thoughts.’ Chosenbythedeity

What a load of hooey. I don’t have a single anti-semitic thought in my head. I grew up watching documentaries at school about what happened in the holocaust and I’ve read widely on the subject ever since. You’d have to have a heart of stone not to feel compassion for those who died in concentration camps and you’d have to be a fool not to see that Israel locks innocent people up too, tortures them and kills them. We don’t know most of their names but we know they exist, living out their lives in Israeli prisons for the crime of being Palestinian. We do know Cynthia McKinney’s name and she’s an American politician who seems to have finally said ‘Enough is enough’ and taken a stand. What you’re really saying CBG is that any criticism of Israel will lead to another holocaust. This is completely untrue but very useful to the fascists who run Israel. As I’ve said before, most Jews don’t even live in Israel so saying that any criticism directed at Israel is about all Jews is simply not credible on the facts.God is angry with Jews for not worshipping Jesus? A lot of people are extremely angry with Israel for what they did in Gaza and that, as far as I can see, has nothing to do with Jesus, the Buddha, the elephant God or even Vishnu. You are simply out to confuse and distract, trying to turn a debate about Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians into a debate on religion. It has never been about religion: it has always been about land. No religious right to the land? I have bad news for you, you never had any right to the land, religious or otherwise. That’s what all of this is about and blaming it on religion won’t get you very far. Leave the Jews alone? Leave Cynthia McKinney alone. Leave the Lebanese alone. Leave the Palestinians alone. And stop paying less impressive American politicians than McKinney to look the other way while you act like serial killers. Israel has most American politicians so scared they’re negotiating with a completely corrupt man who lost an election: Abbas is being groomed to be Israel and America’s puppet ruler of the Palestinians. You know, like Karzai in Afghanistan. The man whose brother is a drug lord. Yes, look how well that’s gone. It’s the 21st century and the Bible is just a book. Scary, isn’t it?

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By Sepharad, July 3, 2009 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi, I too wish every article on the Middle East didn’t devolve into Zionist arguments, but most TDers idea of comment on the Middle East is to attack Israel, hence people who believe in the right of Israel to exist respond. Zionists, like anti-Israel folk, come in all flavors.

There is a lot going on in the Middle East that has not much to do with Israel, and often I’ve tried to discuss such things from a different point of view, but some idiot always drags in Israel as the center of all Middle Eastern problems and I feel compelled to respond. That’s too bad, as there are usually much more fruitful lines of inquiry and discussion.

Put another way, it’s as if every topic regarding the U.S. would consist mainly of attacks on W., when there is so much more going on under the surface and around the issue.

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By Robert, July 3, 2009 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

chosen/by/psychward…Why don’t you get off your damn pile of stenchy trash lines & pure lies. One can see right through your damn zionist smokescreen.

You are brainwashed & skull infected with that fascist zionist ideology. Go get yourself some needed therapy.

You are sinking into your own garbage! Don’t waste your time on TD…you are sick & full of racist hatred.

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By Sepharad, July 3, 2009 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

Chosenbygod, re your July 3 3:30pm post—I see it, and that’s one reason I continue posting on Israel-related sites. (I’m a secular Jew and don’t feel chosen by any god, but I do agree with this particular post.)

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By tropicgirl, July 3, 2009 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

Chosen by God—

The Palestinians already outnumber you. Every day there are more being born to outnumber you.

That is why a ONE STATE solution is the only answer. If Israel does nothing, that is what will eventually happen by default.

Then, with equal rights for all, the Palestinians will be voted in, by the numerous population, eventually, and the Jews will be the “official” minority.

Ask any anthropologist, your days are numbered. Thank god.

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By Ed Harges, July 3, 2009 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment

“UN human rights investigator Richard Falk today criticized the Israeli action as unlawful, noting that it made no sense for the military to capture people, force them into Israel, then charge them with “illegal entry” even though they never had any intention of going there. The Israeli government condemned Falk for his criticism, and insisted that the ship was engaged in anti-Israel propaganda.”

“A spokesman for the Israeli embassy says that McKinney and the others will likely be released by Sunday, but complained that McKinney “is not cooperating with the authorities.” Israel is reportedly demanded that McKinney sign a document admitting to illegally entering Israeli territory.”

We have a fresh new demonstration of our pathetic subordination to Israel. Israel’s spies and agents in our own country, in our government, in our congress, have complete impunity to use blackmail, bribery, espionage,  and sabotage to ensure that the US government is run according to their wishes, but the Israelis can arrest and and wrongfully imprison prominent Americans, punishing them for lawful humanitarian activities on behalf of the people of Gaza, whom Israel is openly murdering en masse, with no consequences.

Israel is utterly vile.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 1:09 pm Link to this comment

Jews are not and never will be a minority in Israel! In fact that is one of the only reason some of us even will consider a two state solution is tokeep it that way. IT IS THE ENTIRE POINT AND REASON ISRAEL EXIST IS TO BE THE JEWISH STATE. IF WE LOSE THAT WE LOSE EVERYTHING!! THAT IS WHY WE WILL NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN ALL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE like they say in America. That is the only issue 100% of Israelis not only agree on but will DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to make sure of it

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By Paul_GA, July 3, 2009 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

I’m afraid you’re right, KDelphi; Zionists have a bad tendency to do that.

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By KDelphi, July 3, 2009 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment

chosenbygod ruined this thread.

In my experience , “ghosen by god” people tend to do that.

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By KDelphi, July 3, 2009 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

WHY does an article, that has any mention of the Middle East, at all, have to deteriorate in to Zionist drivel?

Yes, I think that most USAns are tired of sending financial support to Israel military when people in our own country are starving. Israel has a very strong social safety net and a very strong military, courtesy of the US Congress.

Israel exists as a land for a racial minority—you have to be Jewish to be a citizen. That is not in dispute. That is always going to lead to confrontation, and, ever-expanding confrontation it seems..

Maybe Israel should be integrated with all kinds of USAns who need help getting started—every race and culture. It could be the beginning of the end for theocratic states (I include the US as a so-called “christian nation” in this)

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

Ethiopian Jews are very black but not at all fat in fact they are skinny. They are also polite and courteous and they serve in the off in Judah and Samaria and are excellent soldiers

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 12:30 pm Link to this comment

I figured most people in america don’t think Jews control everything.what I was hoping is that someone would agree with me that historically when people start saying things like my country is secretly run by Jews and god is angry with Jews for not believing in Jesus, the Jews broke their covenant with god by not worshipping Jesus and therefore have no religious claims to their land. That these things are the normal precursor to antisemitic events biggest of all the holocaust. Even if you think I am a looney toon does not one person on this blog see the potential in these kind of traditional antisemetic thoughts
Ito

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By Paracelsus, July 3, 2009 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

Leave Israel alone god promised this land to the Jews free of palestinians and fat black Americans.

Wow! So tell me chosen, how do set your self apart from other eugenicists? Are Ethiopian Jews as bad as fat black Americans? Socialist Israel has learned well from Marx and Engels in regard to backward races.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

Jews do not try to convert people or preach we have enough trouble taking care of our own a d keep them safe. We also do not consider people pure or unpure judiasm is passed on maternally therfore we have Jews of all ethnicitys here in Israel we have a large Ethiopian Jewish population that surprises most Gentiles.

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By Paracelsus, July 3, 2009 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

I just wanted to know if Americans really believe Jews control their congress and that Jews broke our most holy covenant by not following Jesus.

I believe ME religions to be most savage, and I don’t have any favorites. In the end it is about which group of mad men can win the most converts to their stream of consciousness frothings, otherwise known as belief by revelation. I don’t see it as matter of Jews trying to control Congress as we have a number of ethnic groups trying to control Congress; such is the mess of identity politics. Diversity has unleashed waves of ethnic/minority groups with the belief in will and blood. Foundation funding has blessed and consecrated this chaos.

I do believe it is inherent to every nation to have a right to exist, but to what extent should other nations bankroll such partisans. Why not establish an Armenian homeland on the cream of Anatolian farmland? What could be more appropriate? I think as free agents, as individuals we have the right to fund any such partisan venture, but should I force a tax on somebody who opposed to such an adventure? Suppose the Armenian-American lobby seeing that they are not getting enough money from their compatriots for such a holy cause decides that government should fund this even it means that Turkish-Americans should be forced to fund this through their taxes. I don’t see how this accords well with classical liberalism. But as a citizen of Israel, I think you would find this line of thinking difficult. You have lived under a system of war socialism for decades, and government has forced decisions upon unwilling citizens for a long time. The fact that you have unending military conscription is proof enough.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

And also please people to use the term NAZI ZIONIST is so wrong on so many levels the most important of is the memory of the holocaust survivors who dreamed of escaping Europe and setting up this tiny little Jewish country in the land of their forefathers to callthose people Nazis is not just logically wrong but morally wrong they were the victims of the Nazis and spent everday of the rest of their lives living with those terrible scars.I have no idea how those two opposite words became connected on this blog there has never been two words more opposite

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By Paracelsus, July 3, 2009 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

I do have my qualms over monetary support of Israel by the United States. I feel it is unfair to the Irish who may want funding to go to the Irish Republic in order to reunite Northern Ireland with the rest of Ireland. I feel that all of our ethnic groups deserve equal funding of their ancestral home countries’ ventures. Our Greek-American citizens should know that our Congress stands behind them in their yearnings for a united Cypress. Our Sikh Americans should be supported in funding their homeland’s quest to reunited itself with the lost Punjabi land given over to Pakistan. I feel that Rhodesian-Americans should feel Congress stands with them in supporting counter-revolutionaries in order to win back their old farms. Additionally there are large numbers of South African-Americans, who would need financial and military support to overthrow the black racist apartheid system in their homeland in order to restore white apartheid. Who am I for? I am for everyone with a noble cause.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

Can not one person even if you don’t agree with all my views that someone saying that god punished Jews for not following Jesus and the American congress is secretly controlled (republican and democrat) by Jews is the same argument Hitler used whether are not you want to go as far as him is not the point. I am just stating the fact that is EXACTLY two points he made in the thirtys to gain power. If someone I disagree with makes a valid point I will concede that even though I disagree with the rest. My later post were truly questions that I really was curios to see what your opinion is. I’m sorry if I don’t spell correctly and use bad grammer English is not my first language and I am posting from a iPhone. I just wanted to know if Americans really believe Jews control their congress and that Jews broke our most holy covenant by not following Jesus.  I also apologize if I am a little passonite on this topic my grandparents were holocaust survivors and I lost a sister as well as many friends to Palestinian terrorist bombers. Shingo how can u post something so inflamotory and then stay quiet how can no one on this blog stand up and say that those views are racist towards
Jews even if you don’t agree with me or even think the same as me as I understand you might. If you really believe that a country that is only six decades old with no real
oilpower could control your entire congress you should stand up and say it LOUD not just a one line co If I thought my country was under the influence of a foriegn power or religion I would dedicate my entire soul to exposing it and fill every blog in the world with my information. You people should go to Israel and see what the Jewish people have done and what a majical place this is for Jews and Christians alike. You would
the Palestinians have glorified suicide bombers with posters aYou have no idea how it feels to live surrounded by tens of millions of fanatics who would love nothing more than to exterminate your entire race and religion. They believe that their god WANTS them to behead and kill us and that will deliver them to heaven were their god will reward them with YOUNG VIRGINS TO DEFLOWER does that sound like a good god?? Kill for me and I will reward you with raping young girls?? I just wish someone even if you think I am a nut with bad English spelling would stand up and say that when you start to believe the jew is some evil puppetmaster that secretly controls your congress and that god is angry with us for not believing your god is the only choice you are heading down the same road as the Islamic lunatics and the Nazis you may not be there yet but you are at the fork in the road and you just took the first steps in the wrong direction. The reason the US supports Israel is we are the only true democracy in the middle east not because Jews control congress. You should see with your own eyes not just believe everything your media tells you. You should see the way Muslim women are treated lime property and married off like a business deal ask what happens to homosexuals in these Muslim country they are publicly STONED TO DEATH. the US supports Israel because they are the only country looking forward and not trying to stay locked into the seventh century they are a macho type and I hate to say it they only respect violence if you try diplomacy they mistake it for weakness. I know that sounds lime a blanket statement but unfortuntly it is a true one just come see for yourselves go to Iran as well and if you are a woman try and walk around with your head not covered but none of you ever will cause you know chances are once they find out you are American you will be kidnapped off the streets any no amount of explaining how much you sympathize or even explain you agree totally with them will keep your heads on your shoulders

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By Sepharad, July 3, 2009 at 10:40 am Link to this comment

Shingo, I think Israel needs to be careful about what is coming in to Gaza on ships for the same reasons the U.S. worries about North Korean maritime activity. If the Israelis did see that humanitarian aid got to the Gazans (though a lot of it will be held by Hamas to reward its supporters), they are obviously not trying to starve the people.

Nefesh does seem to be more completely immersed in Israel’s history than I am and probably does have more detail at his or her fingertips. (My current reading is in Jonah Greenberg’s “Liberal Fascism”, which I hope will give me a better grasp of the context of some puzzling opinions expressed on this site.

By the way, I think it is highly probable that Jews and Arabs carry a lot of similar DNA. We’re both Semitic tribes from the same region. Some of us call each other cousins. Someone on this or another thread said everything would be fine if Jews just lived among the Arabs. I don’t think dhimmihood is acceptable to most Jews anymore. (The term “lipservice” was first used, as far as I know, by Moses Maimonides, who defended Moroccan Jews from a critical European rabbi who said Jews publically practicing Islam (as was demanded on pain of death) were no longer Jews even though they followed their religion in the dark, out of sight. Maimonides wrote back that many heros of Israel living among enemies throughout had to pay lipservice or die, and that lipservice was the better alternative.)

If there were a modern, democratic Arab country with minority protections and equality for non-Moslems, it would be feasible but still risky for Jews to live there, whether they were observant or, like me, not. Often I find that I have more in common with Arabs, Jews, Persians and Afghanis in the U.S. than with other non-Semitic people though the latter is the majority where I live. Jewishness is not a religion necessarily, but a culture and tradition. As anti-Semitism is rising (some of it but not all expressed as anti-Israel, as a special EU Parliament project is learning), there is a need for the existence of Israel. Supporting the existence of Israel is not anti-Arabic, does not mean that one’s first loyalty is to the country of one’s residence, is not bigotry—just some insurance that in one country Jews will be safe from another outbreak of murderous anti-Semitism. That is why I’m a Zionist.
It is also why I worry when someone like Avigdor Lieberman tries to jump the equality track in Israel. No one is safe anywhere that everyone is not safe.

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By Sepharad, July 3, 2009 at 10:40 am Link to this comment

Shingo, I think Israel needs to be careful about what is coming in to Gaza on ships for the same reasons the U.S. worries about North Korean maritime activity. If the Israelis did see that humanitarian aid got to the Gazans (though a lot of it will be held by Hamas to reward its supporters), they are obviously not trying to starve the people.

Nefesh does seem to be more completely immersed in Israel’s history than I am and probably does have more detail at his or her fingertips. (My current reading is in Jonah Greenberg’s “Liberal Fascism”, which I hope will give me a better grasp of the context of some puzzling opinions expressed on this site.

By the way, I think it is highly probable that Jews and Arabs carry a lot of similar DNA. We’re both Semitic tribes from the same region. Some of us call each other cousins. Someone on this or another thread said everything would be fine if Jews just lived among the Arabs. I don’t think dhimmihood is acceptable to most Jews anymore. (The term “lipservice” was first used, as far as I know, by Moses Maimonides, who defended Moroccan Jews from a critical European rabbi who said Jews publically practicing Islam (as was demanded on pain of death) were no longer Jews even though they followed their religion in the dark, out of sight. Maimonides wrote back that many heros of Israel living among enemies throughout had to pay lipservice or die, and that lipservice was the better alternative.)

If there were a modern, democratic Arab country with minority protections and equality for non-Moslems, it would be feasible but still risky for Jews to live there, whether they were observant or, like me, not. Often I find that I have more in common with Arabs, Jews, Persians and Afghanis in the U.S. than with other non-Semitic people though the latter is the majority where I live. Jewishness is not a religion necessarily, but a culture and tradition. As anti-Semitism is rising (some of it but not all expressed as anti-Israel, as a special EU Parliament project is learning), there is a need for the existence of Israel. Supporting the existence of Israel is not anti-Arabic, does not mean that one’s first loyalty is to the country of one’s residence, is not bigotry—just some insurance that in one country Jews will be safe from another outbreak of murderous anti-Semitism. That is why I’m a Zionist.
It is also why I worry when someone like Avigdor Lieberman tries to jump the equality track in Israel. No one is safe anywhere that everyone is not safe.

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By tropicgirl, July 3, 2009 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

As we have discussed before, there are two kinds of Jews:

1. Self-loathing Jews (humble, smart, civil-rights activist, artistic, kind, non-judgmental, champions of the weak)

and

2.  Zionists (just exactly the opposite)

And they dislike each other strongly. Hence the demeaning names.

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By eileen fleming, July 3, 2009 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

The Spirit of Humanity’s 21 and the Spirit that Preceded it

http://www.arabisto.com/article/Blogs/Eileen_Fleming/The_Spirit_of_Humanitys_21_and_the_Spirit_that_Preceded_it/40943

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By Paracelsus, July 3, 2009 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

The same can be said for fascism, it is a system of government designed to protect the interests of business.  Much the same as we have here (not hear) in the US.

Yes, we are fascists now. Fascist government exists in part to protect cartels and monopolies. The automobile industry couldn’t really make high profits until FDR’s military industrial complex winnowed down the number of car manufacturers. The Great Depression did its work as well with the starvation of credit to smaller businesses. The way to survive was to have a lobbyist in Washington to win contracts for the firm. I wonder how many good cos. went down because they couldn’t win the favor of politicians.

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By idarad, July 3, 2009 at 9:08 am Link to this comment

hey chosen by allah gawd, whatever….
try using spell check, read what you write before you send it.
You sound as though you have already lost all semblance to reality, but the least you could do is structure your comments within the standard grammatical form.

By the way, you might want to study the basis of Nazism.  It was not a religious dogma, it was a political system, racist and nonfunctional in providing for its people.  The same can be said for fascism, it is a system of government designed to protect the interests of business.  Much the same as we have here (not hear) in the US.

Get your history and facts together. Pull your mind out of the gutter and try to become human. You owe yourself at least that much.

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By Folktruther, July 3, 2009 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

I like CHOSENBYGOD.  It gives the Dems and ideological equivilent of the Gop’s Trith.  My wife has a Swedish colleage who’s husband is an observant Jew.  She refers to him as The Chosen One.  After all, she chose him.  It’s good to see Zionist drivel degeneate into the downright dingbat.

Chosen, I was lately reading THE WIT AND WISDOM OF ADOLF HITLER (a very short book) and I came across a reference to you in it.  It wasn’t complementary.  Neither are my comments.  So you shcould use Zionist logic, and Nefesh does, and conflate the two.  I must be Hitler, or a devotee of Hitler.  Therefore the only solution is mass slaughter, as both the Dem Zionists like Nefesh and the Gop fundementalists advocate.  As does Shepharad more subtly and proffessionally.

You are a welcome addition to the Zionist contigent. It gives them that outright lunacy that the right has and that they did not state as explicily as you do.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

SHINGO I GUESS YOU THINK THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED TOO CAUSE JEWS DONT FOLLOW JESUS IF YOU BELIEVE IT EVEN HAPPENED what’s up no comment been outer as a straight up Nazi with your Jews broke the covenant cuz the don’t follow Jesus crap!!! And Jews control congress guess Jews control the media too LISTEN TO YOURSELF NAZI 101

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

DOES EVERYONE HEAR THINK JEWS ARE BEING PUNISHED FOR NOT FOLLOWING JESUS AND JEWS CONTROL THE US CONGRESS???? CAUSE THAT IS NAZI 101 Samson no comment??

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

WAY TO GO HAMAS KILL YOUR OWN CHILDREN AND TRY TO BLAME IT ON THE IDF!!!  So typical and you people want to support these child killing terrorist shame on you!!!

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By Robert, July 3, 2009 at 7:50 am Link to this comment

Last update - 06:32 03/07/2009  


Palestinians: IDF tank fire kills Gaza teen

By Haaretz Service and the Associated Press

 

“A 17-year-old Palestinian girl was killed and several other Palestinians wounded in a blast in central Gaza near the Israeli border Thursday, Hamas security officials said, charging that an Israeli tank shell was to blame.

The Israel Defense Forces said soldiers returned mortar fire, but did not use tank shells, after they came under Palestinian fire across the border in central Gaza.

IDF sources said that Palestinian militants had been firing mortar shells when the blast occurred, and they believed that it was possible that Palestinian mortar fire caused the casualties.


Palestinian Health Ministry official Dr. Moaiya Hassanain said the fatality was a 17-year-old girl, and one of the wounded was a 3-year-old girl.

Earlier, Hassanain said the little girl had been killed.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Israel’s US made Tanks & its brutal IDF do the killing and Israeli propaganda says NO…its the Palestinians who did it!


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1097419.html

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 7:31 am Link to this comment

A NAZI ZIONIST?? ARE YOU PEOPLE RETARTED?? Samson you seem the most level headed do you think Jews secretly control America???

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By Robert, July 3, 2009 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

chosen/by/psychward…your paranoia medication dosages need to be increased & may be a new evaluation of your current disorder issues need to be examined.

The $3-5 billion dollars per year that Israel receives from the American taxpayer’s pockets needs to be spent in the US. As more Americans become more aware of the TRUTH regarding the “welfare” state of Israel, more Americans will protest against the current special treatment the terrorist state of Israel gets from the US.

Its only a matter of time. The TRUTH is coming out…slowly but surely!

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 7:23 am Link to this comment

One third of Americas foriegn funding GOES to Israel. America is israels biggest supporter in the UN Why??? If we are terrorist the us has never stopped supporting Israel ever not just a one time payment?? Do you really believe Jews run congress I’m glad I got you to show your true Nazi colours

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By bogi666, July 3, 2009 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

Samson, I currently live in North Georgia. 2 miles, from where I reside, in Tiger Georgia there is a house with a full size NAZI flag flying on the outside in full display, the supporters of nefresh our resident ZIONIST NAZI. Paul Broun is the congressman here and he is at least a fascist and perhaps a NEO NAZI who would exterminate many of the people in his district as it has a lot of elderly/income persons. The house is about two blocks away from his North Georgia, HQ.Somehow I think you may not be surprised Samson.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

Wow you quote the same verses as hitler!!! And just lime him you believe your country is secretly controlled by Jews!! WOW Jewish lobbys control congress and we broke our covenant because we don’t follow Jesus!!! LOL!!!  So how long have you been in the Nazi party or are you a new member

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By Shingo, July 3, 2009 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

Chosenbygod,

The US sent money and weapons to Iraq.

They sent money and weapons to Al Qaeda in Afghansitan when the Russians invaded.

They sent money and weapons to dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and Egypt too.

So you see, America is quite happy to send money to terrorist states and terrorist groups.

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By Shingo, July 3, 2009 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

Chosenbygod,

Jews broke the covenant with God by failing to not fulfilled the conditions of the Covenant (it had committed this sin so often and God had always forgiven ) and because it had refused the fulfilment of the Covenant itself by refusing Jesus. (Romans 10:4).

He said to Jeremiah:

“The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the Family of Israel and with the Family of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke My covenant, and I turned away from them,” declares the LORD.

Tel Aviv University scholar Shlomo Zand also published a study that proves that the Palestinians are the decedents of the original Israelis. 
Zand estimates that perhaps 10,000 ancient Judeans were vanquished during the Roman wars, and the remaining inhabitants of ancient Judea remained, converting to Islam and assimilating with their conquerors when Arabs subjugated the area. They became the progenitors of today’s Palestinian Arabs, many of whom now live as refugees who were exiled from their homeland during the 20th century.

So you see, those Arabs you want to go away are the oroginal Jews, so if you believe God gave the land to the Jews, then the land belongs to them, not you.

Dean of humanities at the Hebrew University, Israel Bartal, says that “Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions.” Bartal added: “no historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically ‘pure.’

Like Christianity and Islam, Judaism was an evangelical religion that actively sought out new adherents during its formative period.
Obama keeps sending tax dollars to Israel because he has no authority to stop those payments unless Congress, who are bribed by Israeli lobby groups, agrees to it.  Israel would collapse without those dollars and weapons of course.

Israel has never been a Jewish country and will probably never be one as the Arab population will soon overtake the Jewish majority. 

The Arabs were there before the Jews arrived,  In fact there have always been more Arabs in Palestine than there were Jews.  There are more Jews leaving Israel than there are arriving, and at least half want to leave if they can get a job elsewhere.

There is no such thing as winning land fair and
square,  If staling land in war is wining it fair and square, that means that Israel is up for grabs to any country wants to take it off your hands.  Is that what you want?

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 6:58 am Link to this comment

If Israel is such a bad country try that does all these terrible things then why does the US give Israel more money than any other country all our weapons are American?? Maybe you guys should write your senators LOL !!! We are tiny if America is so unhappy why doesn’t it do one thing??  Please answer this question

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By Samson, July 3, 2009 at 6:49 am Link to this comment

Sometimes you see the most hilarious things written on the web.

“The Arabs never showed up till after the Jews”

For anyone who knows history, that’s so wrong its hilariously funny.  Or it would be if such lies weren’t being used to keep 1,500,000 people imprisoned, bombed, denied medical care and slowly starved to death in Gaza. 

When you realize that the lies are being used to harm others, then you realize that what you are seeing and hearing is pure evil.

The haters, the killers, the murderers, the rapists, the torturers ... they’ve all always used lies like this.  If any people should know the evil of this, and the evil that results from such lies, it should be the Jews, who’ve been victims of this far too many times.  Instead, we see at least some of them practice the same sort of evil ... with the same deadly, awful, evil consequences.

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By Samson, July 3, 2009 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

Of course they were trying to get publicity.  That’s what you do when you are fighting for a cause.  Why is that used to attack Cynthia McKinney?  That she would lend her good name to a good cause, and put her body on the line to try to raise the awareness of the issue.  These are reasons I admire and support Ms.McKinney.  I’m always amazed to see them instead used to attack her.

Of course, having lived in GA, I’ve seen for a long, long time the massive amount of incredible lies and misinformation used to attack her for a very long time.  With Cynthia McKinney, always go hear her words directly.  Because a lot of what you hear about her is the most blatant lies.

Of course, most of the nonsense and noise on this thread is designed to keep people from talking about some very basic questions. Like, why should Israel have any say in what is imported into Gaza?  Oh, I know we’ll hear the nonsense about ‘security’ that we always hear.  But, on a fundamental level, it is wrong for one people to use force or arms to block food, medical equipment, building supplies, computers and a whole long list of other items from another people.

Why can’t the people of Gaza fish and use boats on their own seacoast? Why can’t they run their own ports and import their own goods and supplies?

Piracy is the best description of this act.  And it should be treated just like the Somali pirates.  Israel should be told that the next time they interfere with a ship not bound for Israel, all the navies in the Med will blow their ships out of the water.

Gaza has been called the world’s largest concentration camp.  To me, that’s a very good description.  The real question to ask is why the world tolerates such behavior. 

I voted for Ms. McKinney for President in the last election.  Instead, we get Obama, who stands up and says pretty words about ending the blockade, then does nothing about it.  Too bad Obama doesn’t have the guts and the convictions to load up a boat with US aid to Gaza and personally sail on it to see that it gets through.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

Quote me a time Jesus preached to a goy I’ll admit I don’t know your book that well but if you think you can just become a Jew like u can a Muslim than try and convert and see what Israel will tell you if u try to apply for citenzenship!! How did we violate the covenant??? No answer on why Obama keeps sending your tax dollars over here?? Tell him thanks one day Israel will be a Jewish country again why don’t u take some ofvthese Arabs to the states and we will all be happy! The Arabs never showed up till after the Jews and they tried to wipe us out but we kicked their asses back to their new borders and won that land fair and square

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By Robert, July 3, 2009 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

Hey “chosen/psych/ward”...Your agenda is so tansparent & deceptive. One can see by the way you spelled “god”.

You sound like you just completed Israel’s IDF bootcamp “brainwashing” course. Now you can go out & kill 9 year old Palestinian/Arab children without having to worry about any prison time…NEVER!

That is Israel’s policy!

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By Shingo, July 3, 2009 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

Chosenbygod,

If YOU you read the bible god clearly says the Jews broke the covenant and forfeited their claim to the land of Israel.  The Torah says the same thing.

God said that anyone who treated the least of his people, meaning all people, would be honored in heaven.  He described all creatures as God’s creatures.  He described all children as his own.  He nevr once referred to himself by his Jewish identiity because he preached that it didn’t matter.

Not only did the Jews reject Jesus, but if Jesus’s existence was about being Jewish, then why did he create a new church and not prach Judaism?

Jesus preached to everyone not just Jews.

You are the one that believes a piece of land belongs to a people from one religion, and you are accusing me of being in fantasy land?  Most Jews have no connection to the original Israelites you ignoramus.  Most Jews became Jews by conversion.
As for terrorists, two of Israel’s Prime Ministers were terrorists you moron.

“Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” (Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parlament], quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts,” New Statesman, June 25, 1982)

Did you hear that Chosenbygod?  Does that sound like one of God’s chose?

The Arabs owned the land in 1948 and the Zionists, most of whom don’t even believe in God, stole it from them.  God had no par to play in that.

You are a cretin and an insult to Israel.  You are your fellow extremist will bring about Israel’s destruction.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 6:16 am Link to this comment

Ny had 9/11 israel has 24/7 if Obama didn’t support Israel then why has he not changed the American funding one penny think about it!! He knows what is right and he is part arab!!

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By idarad, July 3, 2009 at 6:14 am Link to this comment

gawd you gawd people are sick -

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 6:04 am Link to this comment

If you read the bible god clearly says that god promised thevland of Israel to the Jews!! Where does it say that all people r gods people? Jesus never preached to anyone except Jews everyone of his disciples was a Jew! It wasn’t until Paul came along(a roman who never even met jesus once) that he decided unilaterally to allow the gospel to be preached to Gentiles!! You are living in a fNtasy world now wonder you believe the terrorist every president since Israel was founded had to tell Israel to give Lang to the Arabs in public policy but allowed and founded Israel to reclaim the promised land in reality!!! Obama will do the same you think we will stop building on our land? You think we will allow these Arabs to squat on holy land? Obama will preach words but do nothing just like the rest!!

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By Robert, July 3, 2009 at 5:46 am Link to this comment

Hey Shingo,

TD new zionist poster “chosenbygod” has just received a message from Israel’s “Internet Megaphone” directing him/her to this thread. He sounds like he is posting from a psychiatry ward.

This zionist poster is on here to get you/us off track & away from the main topic of this thread.

One can usually tell the trade of these zionist’s propaganda merchants!

Sepharad, Israel’s “PR” agent, may put in her 2 cents worth of support for this brainwashed zionist, chosenbygod, ...just like she did for that “nefesh=lilmamzer”.

KEEP AN EYE ON THE DEFRACTORS & ISRAEL’S “PR” AGENTS !

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By Jason!!, July 3, 2009 at 5:42 am Link to this comment

Thats it. This is Obama’s big plan???


Send in the angry black woman that hates jews.

Fail.

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By Shingo, July 3, 2009 at 5:06 am Link to this comment

Chosenbygod,

If you were a Christian, which you are not, you woudl know that all peopel are God’s people.

You are the minority and belong to teh dead enders of society.  I don;t knwo what cult you beling to, but even among Chritisna evangelists, Israel’s popularity is dropping.

As for Israel, yes, Obama has promised support for that state, but he is demanding that Israel return the land it has stolen.

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By Chosenbygod, July 3, 2009 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

You are a minority in your own country!! Obama has promised support for gods people! N

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By Shingo, July 3, 2009 at 4:24 am Link to this comment

Paul_GA,

Which is why Israel’s reputation among the world is down with Iran.

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By Paul_GA, July 3, 2009 at 4:23 am Link to this comment

If Israel, which is becoming more and more isolated in the world, really WANTS new enemies galore, they’re doing a great job of it, even if this was treated by and large as a non-story by the world media.

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By Shingo, July 3, 2009 at 4:06 am Link to this comment

Chosenbygod,

You are clearly a derranged right wing Zionist fanatic.

You call to “let the the Jews be” is akin to lettinng the Nazi’s be and no bothering them about those concentration camps they were running.

Israel is violating interntional law by blockading Gaza,  violating interntional law by highjacking vessels in international waters and violating interntional law by by occupying Palestinian land.

Why wont Israel let the Palestinians be is the real question.  Worried avout terrorirst are you?  Israel was founded on terrorism by terrorist gangs, the eladers of which went on to become leaders of the country.

The supplies found on McCKinney’s ship were found to be completelyer benign you ignoramus.  No weapons aor anything of value to “terrororists” were on there or you can be sure that Israel would have declared it to the world.

God did NOT promis promise this land to the Jews,  The Palestinians are decendants of the Jews you moron.

You are an ignorant, racist fundamentalist lunatic.

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By Shingo, July 3, 2009 at 2:36 am Link to this comment

Sepharad,

You are either too modest or more ignoran tthan I though. 

Hefesh’s knowledge of Israeli history is appalingly flawed and superficial, which I have demonstarted on multiple occasions.  Nefesh is also a vulgar racist and, and also in line with being a rabbid right wing Zionist, a racist biggot.

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By Sepharad, July 3, 2009 at 12:07 am Link to this comment

If, as nefesh writes, Israel offloaded the supplies from the boat and sent them by truck to Gaza, all this heated rhetorical exercise demonstrates more concern for PR and a chance to demonize Israel than for humanitarian aid for Gazans. McKinney is not all that “gutsy” but has a shrewd eye for publicity, and Israel has once again shown an appalling clumsiness re building good PR—but even they would not be so clumsy as to torture McKinney during her jail stay, as one commenter suggested. Human Rights Watch has accused both Israel and Hamas for war crimes in Gaza and both sides have protested the fairness of the assessments. So what else is new?

I don’t know whether the ships were in Israeli waters or not, and I don’t know the maritime law re blockade running. Didn’t we do some fine line footsy-playing to avoid a war with Russia, whose ships were approaching Cuba but still in international waters when we had pilot gunners shoot at it? 

Shingo, despite Il Duce the Italians were so resistant to deporting their Jews that the Nazis had to send SS and their own policmen to get the job done, as most of the Italian police were dragging their feet, sometimes outright refusals.

Israel is not in the moral decline many of you like to harp on. Golda was just as hawkish as Sharon and Netanyahu. It’s disgusting to see the crude, taunting remarks directed at nefesh, who knows more Israeli history than I do, and frightening to observe the inner thoughts certainly more than the more rabid Israel-haters.

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By john from ojai, July 2, 2009 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Any seeker of truth and justice will be appalled by what Israel has done to Gazans recently. The UN,Amnesty International, Jimmy Carter and many more have pointed to numerous war crimes committed by Israel in Gaza. Yet our government and most media ignore them. Please work for media reform, campaign finance reform, and boycott, sanction, and divest any business or politician that profits from Israel’s illegal occupation.

Urgently, write your media and politicians to get the Free Gaza 21 and their medicine released immediately.

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By Folktruther, July 2, 2009 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

Don’t you think it is better to have Nefesh putting out this Zionist drivel than Sepharad?  Sepharad was a real pro and a professional at damage control.
As Israel becomes more amd more fascistic, their truthers will more and more come to resemble Nefesh.
Pure hatred, pure bloodlust, pure deceit.  the Israeli face as it degenerates.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 2, 2009 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

Cynthia McKinney calls WBAIX from Israeli prison


Cynthia McKinney calls WBAIX from Israeli prison. She and 20 others where detained after being seized by Israeli Navy while in international waters. They were attempting to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza. To watch live updates, interviews, protests go to
http://www.livestream.com/wbaix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkPvzSZRuDo

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By Robert, July 2, 2009 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

By Shingo, July 2 at 7:02 pm #

nefesh,

You can’t defend Israle’s actions, therefore you turn to guilt by association atatcks against McKinney to try and slander her name.

What a good little bottom feeder Zionist stooge you are.

The founding fathers of Israel were actually financed by Nazi facists in Italy while Jews were burning in overns, so don’t talk to us abot bigoted fellow travelers of the neo-nazi white-supremacists.

Israel is filed with facist white supermacists.  Go look at Max Bloomental’s video if you need evidence of it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shingo,

Nefesh is a fanatic nazi/zionist. He defends Israel’s nazi-zionist killings & starvation of Palestinian children.

Israel’s murderers, the IDF, shoot & kill routinely, 9 year old Palestinian children in the head and they NEVER have to spend one(1) hour in prison for murdering a Palestinian/Arab.

Nefesh is Israel’s Internet IDF. He has a zionist/IDF agenda. He is nothing less than fanatic zionist troll.

He is using the name “nefesh” & most likely its Yiddish/Hebrew/Israeli. Maybe he can tell us what “nefesh” means?

Maybe he knows “lilmazer” & “nemer” who used to post on TD. He does remind me of lilmamzer…though!

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By ardee, July 2, 2009 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

nefesh, July 2 at 5:33 pm #

One more shameless publicity stunt by the idiots who use the real Gaza tragedy as a vehicle for their anti-imperialist fantasies.
........................................

Speaking of fantasies, Nefesh…..Noone can criticize you for taking a position that you believe to be true. But to manufacture “facts” is the opposite of credible debate.

Israel has refused to allow much of the relief aid to reach Gaza, including chldren’s toys ( some military value there you betcha). You may deny this all you like but it is the absolute truth.

You state that the Israeli navy is having a hard time blockading the smuggling of Kyatushka rockets into Gaza…all the more reason to leave that specific ship alone and seek them elsewhere.

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By Shingo, July 2, 2009 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

Xntrk,

Well said.  Indeed, not only has the road from Golda Mier to Netanyahu been downhill, but it only looks like getting worse.

Little wonder that more people are leaving Israel these days then are immigrating.

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By Shingo, July 2, 2009 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

nefesh,

There is no evidene of McKinney’s bigotry.  You wouldn’t be able to produce any such quotes or stamements from her to suport this lie if you tried. 

I just searched and listened to that interview and there is nothing chilling about it.  In fact, she is very guarded by what she says to the nut who is interviewing her.

Sorry to inform you that you are thr modern day equaivalent of the flat earth socirty.  Your comment abotu McKinney not being good enough for an Israeli prison is text book white supremixist stuff.  Menachem Begin couldn’t have said it better. 

Have you hated black peopel all your life?

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By Xntrk, July 2, 2009 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment

nefesh,
In case you were wondering, no one ‘gives a rat’s ass’ about your opinions either. Your drivel just makes it harder to find the posts that actually are discussing the issues, rather then raving.

Get a clue!

At one time, I too was a staunch defender of Israel. Then that marvelous human being Ariel Sharon invaded Lebanon. He’s a pretty big come down from General Moisha Dayan.

It’s quite a way from Golda Mier to Netanyahu, but the Israelis have traveled that road for quite awhile, haven’t they?!

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