ardee, June 9 at 5:38 pm #

OK that’s it! I’m telling your mother-in-law!
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AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Inherit The Wind, June 9 at 1:21 pm #

OK that’s it! I’m telling your mother-in-law!

Reminds me of the following REAL dialogue.

Me, to my kid: “Don’t do that!”
Mother-in-Law: “No, it’s OK.”
Me: “Please don’t contradict me!”
MIL: “I’m not contradicting you!”
Me: “Yes, you are!”
MIL: “No, I’m not!”

and so it goes.

We’re doing some remodeling work and emptying the rooms packing stuff in boxes….
MIL: “What’s in the boxes?”
Me: “Booby-trapped C-4—check it out!”....No not really. But I WANTED to say that!
Wife: “Books and things. Why?”
MIL: “Just wondering”

Mothers-in-law are put on this earth to remind us to be humble about marrying the most wonderful girl in the world.  She’s still the most wonderful girl after nearly 25 years together—and her mother is STILL a PITA.

ardee, June 9 at 7:53 am #

I guess we disagree about whether we disagree…;-)
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No, we don’t!
. .
. .

(Must have the same weird funnybone setting)

Inherit The Wind, June 9 at 7:09 am #
RD:
We DON’T disagree—
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I guess we disagree about whether we disagree…;-)

Sorry, my funnybone is not like others…....

RD:
We DON’T disagree—we agree that religious freedom had nothing to do with coming to Plymouth Rock.  Your eye isn’t jaundiced.  It’s critical and skeptical, as it should be.

Inherit The Wind, June 8 at 11:12 pm

We agree yet we disagree…I like it like that!
Those pilgrims of whom you spoke came originally from the Midlands in England, as I am certain you knew. After two of their leaders were executed by the Crown and the rest fined heavily they surreptitiously fled to Amsterdam.

They failed to prosper there , due to economic factors and the decision was made to buy land in the Colonies…..anyway, history , I love it. But I read it with a jaundiced eye.

ardee, June 8 at 4:57 pm #

You gotta prove that one ,ITW…The history books of my youth were so much fable compared to the actual events, and the history books of current Israeli education are pretty much fable as well. I would be willing to concede a point that we often see, long, long after the fact, corrected history emerge. But then an entire generation or two has been taught lies and lived as if they were truth.
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I owe you an explanation RD:  The history books I had in school, too, were mostly fiction.  I often say most everything I learned in history from K through 12 was mostly pure, unadulterated garbage.

It only takes a mildly analytical eye to look at the facts they presented and realize the analysis doesn’t even fit THOSE.  Like the Pilgrims coming to America for religious freedom by way of Holland.

OOPS! Holland HAD religious freedom then…so why did they leave?  See?  You can take it from there.

But remember: Many of our schools (like in Kansas) want “creation science” taught with real Biology.

Sadly, that’s not history, that’s propaganda and the REAL social science is rarely brought down to the kids.  Yet even the popular and adulturated real historians who went pop, like Doris Kearns Goodwin, are distributing better history and historical science than before.

Plus, as I pointed out, real historians don’t distinguish between colleagues from the defeated nations and colleagues from the victors. 

(BTW, MUCH of the history of the Civil War, the Ante Bellum South and the Reconstruction South has been written by….the “losers”—Southern historians at Southern universities like North Carolina, Duke, Old Miss, Georgia, etc.)

Inherit The Wind, June 8 at 2:36 pm #

It’s a fairy-tale the history is written by the victors.  With the development of history as a proper social science at the end of the 19th century, historians began to move to a more disinterested perspective.
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You gotta prove that one ,ITW…The history books of my youth were so much fable compared to the actual events, and the history books of current Israeli education are pretty much fable as well. I would be willing to concede a point that we often see, long, long after the fact, corrected history emerge. But then an entire generation or two has been taught lies and lived as if they were truth.

It’s a fairy-tale the history is written by the victors.  With the development of history as a proper social science at the end of the 19th century, historians began to move to a more disinterested perspective.

There are many fine German and Japanese historians who have been working on WWII from their perspective for at least 30 years.  True historians drop the attitude of “We’re the good guys—this is how we won.”

While it is my strong opinion that our entry into WWII was absolutely necessary, that the threat to the world was the worst since Genghis Khan, it does not excuse the screw-ups and war crimes committed by our side, the “good guys”.  War is a time of chaos, when men whose morality isn’t too tightly attached are tempted to commit all sorts of horrific actions.  WWII was no exception.  Boundaries are lifted, killing becomes the norm.  What’s the difference after you’ve been at it between killing the enemy and killing someone you see as an enemy?

Here is some sickening information about who the U.S. is fighting:

http://us.altermedia.info/yet-another-israeli-false-flag-terror-attack-yemen-bombing

Former agent for French military intelligence Pierre-Henry Bunel has this to say about ‘al Qaeda’:

“The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the ‘TV watcher’ to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism…”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7787

Global Research, January 13, 2008

The myth of “al Qaida” is built on an expansive foundation of many half-truths and hidden facts.  It is a CIA creation.  It was shaped by the agency to serve as a substitute “enemy” for America, replacing the Soviets whom the Islamist forces had driven from Afghanistan.  Unknown American officials, at an indeterminate point in time, made the decision to fabricate the tale of a mythical worldwide network of Islamic terrorists from the exploits of the Afghan Mujahedeen. The CIA already had their own network of Islamic militant “freedom fighters,” all that was needed were a few scattered terrorist attacks against US targets and a credible heroic figurehead, to serve as the “great leader.”

The really tricky part of creating a mythical terrorist monster out of an incomplete truth is laying-out the facts behind your mythical story without revealing the whole truth about your part in its creation.  In order to explain away the billions of dollars worth of weapons and training that went into the operation, they chose a rich jihadi, a Saudi millionaire named Osama bin Laden, who had been a faithful recruiter and business agent of the Mujahedeen.  He was painted as the sole financier of the entire enormous operation that was centered in Pakistan and Afghanistan.  Bin Laden may not even have known that he was playing a part in a deceitful CIA global drama until after the fact.  It is more likely that his history was chosen many years later to serve as the legacy of “al Qaida,” than it is that he was a brainwashed tool of the spy agency all along.

The story of bin Laden is the story of the secret CIA/ISI insurgent camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan.  According to Prof. Michel Chossudovsky, Osama was 22 years old in 1979, when he was trained in a CIA sponsored guerilla training camp near Peshawar, Pakistan. 

“Bin Laden family was put in charge of raising money for the Islamic brigades. Numerous charities and foundations were created. The operation was coordinated by Saudi intelligence, headed by Prince Turki al-Faisal, in close liaison with the CIA. The money derived from the various charities was used to finance the recruitment of Mujahedeen volunteers. Al Qaeda, the base in Arabic was a data bank of volunteers who had enlisted to fight in the Afghan jihad. That data base was initially held by Osama bin Laden.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7746 

Researcher Kurt Nimmo writes:  “The database of Islamic fighters that was collected by the program was labeled in Arabic, ‘Q eidat ilmu’ti’aat’, which is the exact translation of the English word database. But the Arabs commonly used the short word ‘Al Qaida” which is the Arabic word for ‘base.’”
http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=3569

So I guess that in full circle we can say that money really is more important than lives, at least for the wealthy. The wealthy don’t seem fond of sending their young anywhere to fight, but they are very loud cheerleaders for war and patriotism.

Every war has had its Herr Shrub, Darth Cheney, and supporting cast be they Winston Churchill or Herman Goering. As one of out past Presidents said, ” the seed of every future war is sown in the present one.” Humans have been “smiting” one another since the first stone was cast at someone for some obscure reason. Much lip service is paid to the concept of Peace but humans have this mean spirited group of humans that just can’t seem to be without a “good” war for more than a few years. Their mantra always seems to be for any ocassion that what we really need to straighten things out is another good war! It is part of the reason why we are a dead end species. After some 8,000 plus years we still can’t seem to master the concept that war is the path to extermination. Almost every other living species on this planet seems to be able to learn and adapt to the changing rigors of life except humans. The brain seems to be highly over rated when it comes to long term self preservation!

Ed Harges, June 7 at 4:31 pm

You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I was born nine months after Pearl Harbor so do not claim influence by such event. But I do know that relatives of mine were awaiting death in Nazi camps and thus believe that thwarting Hitler’s plans to take over the world and exterminate all the Jews, Gypsy’s, Homosexuals and whoever was a good thing.

Also, you do not have a monopoly on the opinion that history is written by the winners and should be studied carefully .....

No WAR is good, but stopping Hitler was a better reason for war than any other “wars for profit” have been since that time. Halliburton has done well, as well as all members of the Military Industrial Complex, whose stock is making money for their investors, as war is profitable for those who do not do the fighting, just the investing to make money off the deaths of others.

There should be a way to take profit out of war, then war would not be so exciting for the profiteers and would only be fought when absolutely necessary to protect the nation.

There have been no ‘good wars’. Every war at the least has had war profits pushing the progress of our involvement forward.
The Iraq war was purely for the greediest.
Korea, who knows, we were not really frightened of an impending attack by the Koreans, pushing forward with communism.
All wars are thought up by the cowards in charge and are run by the brave but gullible.

Ardee, when one lives through, as an adult, a horrendous, Pearl Harbor-like attack on the US, and then sees how it is used by wicked people to justify wars of aggression abroad and assaults on civil liberties at home, it is very difficult to avoid reconsidering what one, heretofore, has always been taught to be the truth about the necessity and nobility of America’s participation in past wars.

Ardee, this may shock you, but I do in fact refuse to concede that the Normandy invasion, or the US entry into WWII, was necessary, until I have had time to reconsider the entire matter, from the ground up, completely putting aside the pieties that every right-thinking American supposedly knows concerning WWII.

The U.S. didn’t go to war to fight for democratic freedoms.  It went to war because it was eventually attacked.

Past wars are glamorized by the victors to help sell future wars.

Exactly why Blanket Generalizations are detrimental, either way. WW2 painted every person who served as warrating the membership title ‘Greatest Generation’- obviously some did not earn that accomadation. Just as unjustly expounded as those Vietnam vets who were all branded ‘Baby killers’.
This is why recruitment Requirements must be more stringently observed. Far too many are granted enlistment who are UNFIT to serve and present a detriment to those they serve with and who’s uniform they wear. This is why I find the debate over allowing Gays to openly serve in the Military a misnomer. It is not if you are gay, it is if your are mentally,physically and morally capable of carrying out your duties while being an ‘ambassador’ of our country and Her Values and standards.
when I hear ‘Don’t ask,Don’t Tell’ I relate it more to the acts committed by those wearing OUR uniform who have disgraced it though dishonorable personal acts and are then protected by the ‘code of silence’.‘Don’t Ask don’t Tell’isn’t just a horrid policy because it purely relates to Gays in the Military, it’s because it has been an intentional policy to ignore the Unfittness of Recruits and deny heinous atrocities committed by their ranks.
come on these Recruiters are not only working the lower income areas because of the economic desperation- they are working them because they are sociological breeding grounds of violence- not just drug gang members in urban areas, but also Racist/ sexist Christian ‘jihadist’ ideologies in Rural areas.

Certainly the civilian population of Calais didn’t find D-Day too glorious. They were so ruthlessly bombed as a diversion that the Germans were, indeed, persuaded that NO military force would ever kill so many for merely diversionary purposes

I guess the point of this article is that war is bad, all wars, all bad. But it makes that point in rather awkward fashion by diminishing the necessity of that invasion , one in which many American, British ,Canadian and French resistance fighters died.

So,let us agree that war is a poor way to resolve differences, firm ourselves to work against war as diplomatic solutions and let this article die its rightful death.

The Iraq war has made me much more skeptical of war in general, including the so-called “good wars” like WWII and the US civil war.

An image link.

“This collection over 600 images is intended to provide a window… a montage of the human toll of war. George Bush wanted to eliminate journalists by bombing al Jazeera headquarters in Qatar in an act against the freedom of expression. Governments keep war hidden because it is hideous. To allow people to see this reality—the shattered bodies, the wounded children, the incomprehensible mayhem is to risk eroding popular support for it.”

http://www.chris-floyd.com/war/

Still, we are not seeing the wars.  Where are the images to remind us?  A ficticious sense of order is being painted for us.  Where are our wars…?  On my TV, there are only reports of deaths…... presanitized for my comsumption.

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?”...... Mahatma Gandhi

Sorry,, I forgot to add the article link:

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/hedges.php?articleid=6294

The real war:

“The vanquished know war. They see through the empty jingoism of those who use the abstract words of glory, honor, and patriotism to mask the cries of the wounded, the senseless killing, war profiteering, and chest-pounding grief. They know the lies the victors often do not acknowledge, the lies covered up in stately war memorials and mythic war narratives, filled with words of courage and comradeship. They know the lies that permeate the thick, self-important memoirs by amoral statesmen who make wars but do not know war.

“.....This myth, the lie, about war, about ourselves, is imploding our democracy. We shun introspection and self-criticism. We ignore truth, to embrace the strange, disquieting certitude and hubris offered by the radical Christian Right. These radical Christians draw almost exclusively from the book of Revelations, the only time in the Bible where Jesus sanctions violence, peddling a vision of Christ as the head of a great and murderous army of heavenly avengers. They rarely speak about Christ’s message of love, forgiveness and compassion. They relish the cataclysmic destruction that will befall unbelievers, including those such as myself, who they dismiss as “nominal Christians.” They divide the world between good and evil, between those anointed to act as agents of God and those who act as agents of Satan. The cult of masculinity and esthetic of violence pervades their ideology. Feminism and homosexuality are forces, believers are told, that have rendered the American male physically and spiritually impotent.”  .....Chris Hedges

Thank you again Mr. Hedges.

That’s war for you.  It’s always the same.  Innocent people die and the outcome is ambiguous.

Well it where the liberators, but I know from famelie in Normandie that the German soldiers where bether disciplined, and their behavior against woman was very correct.

Yes it is in every war the same it are the citizen who are butcherd and killed, plus that the Normandie woman where very nice and rural, they where afraid from the black American soldiers.

This is not a myth, you can look this up in the American army papers.