Smoove, June 9 at 8:25 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

ardee,

I bet we are more in agreement then we think.

My initial point was California already has high tax rates. So how effective will raising taxes be if loopholes exist that can be easily exploited?
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I do not wish to harp on this subject, especially as we are not as close as you believe us to be. Low income folks are hurt far more by taxes than are the wealthy. It isnt a question of actual numbers at all.

Just as it isnt a question of raising taxes as much as it is of closing loopholes and assuring that all pay a fair share, rich, poor, corporations, all.

Smoove, June 9 at 3:55 pm

You cite textbook analysis that fails utterly to mirror the reality of the tax codes and the loopholes they contain. When Bush 43 first granted the tax breaks to the wealthiest among us Warren Buffet declared himself outraged that he now paid less in taxes than his personal secretary. Why do you suppose that might be?

I am sorry to have distorted the term “coupon clipping” and of course you are correct that one must pay taxes as one “clips those coupons”. But you are far from correct if you believe that the wealthiest do not escape the luxury taxes on their most expensive purchases, they absolutely do , and in a variety of ways. Just as they escape the taxes we see taken out of our weekly paychecks in fact.

Do you not remember the embarrassment Obama suffered when four of his nominees were found to have paid less than they were obligated to on their taxes, whether social security tax or “honest mistakes” from years back? Now these folks are relatively small potatoes compared to those who I claim fail utterly to pay their fair share of the tax burden through artfully constructed devices prepared for them by those $600/hour tax lawyers.

I would also mention the loopholes our corporations employ to avoid their obligations as well. There is no level playing field whatsoever in the way the tax codes are employed. To say that a person making 30K/ year has the same opportunity to find loopholes as the fellow making 30M/yr. is rather naive of you.

Err, smoove
California income tax rates (especially for the wealthy) and sales tax rates are among the highest in the nation. It’s not nor has it ever been about too little revenue.
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Tax rates often bear little weight as to the actual collection of taxes. Corporations have so many loopholes that citing corporate rates is meaningless. The wealthy do not pay taxes as do you or I, assuming you are a wage earner. Their income is often the result of coupon clipping, bonuses and stock options, not weekly paychecks. Thus they have endless deductions and loopholes that create a thriving industry of tax lawyers who, for several hundred an hour, find many tens of thousands of deductions ( and much more )unavailable to you and I.

Leefeller, June 3 at 11:04 am #

Not only possible but probable.

My reference , however, was more to the fact that it is always the poor, the young, the elderly that suffer the most in a down economy. When money is scarce one never hears a plea to enforce the tax codes on the corporations, close the loopholes that enable the wealthy to escape their fair share. After all they can afford to pay a bit more, if only because they benefit the most.

The Dems freaking better well be fighting draconian cuts to State Parks, Education and services for the poor!!

I only fear, based on past performance, they are not strong enough to defend the State from these mindless bullies.

California never recovered from the Enron debacle which Gray Davis mismanaged. Davis also mismanaged the raises given to the prison guards. Arnold has now made an even bigger mess. When will California learn not to elect Hollywood celebrities to govern us?  We now have had two bad governors in a row, one Democrat and one Republican. They had zero competence in real governance once they got beyond the photo ops. As for Arnold’s budget proposals, they are not only doomed to failure, they aren’t nearly good enough to close this deficit which is massive. Taxes have to be raised and probably at all of the bracket levels unless somehow Proposition 13 can be dismanteled which won’t happen anytime soon. The legislature should raise every possible fee imaginable in order to get a budget done that is realistic. There is no way to cut our way out of this mess without throwing the state into chaos. Unemployment taxes need to be raised immediately and without caps on income.

There is great poverty in California because it has tremendous wealth; the rich are protected by the legacy of Prop 13, which created a two-tier property tax between the established gentry and recent immigrants. Also between owners and renters, and between established corporations and new start companies.

As an example, take just two Californians: one was born here, bought a home in 1970 for $40,000, pays taxes of $600 a year. Another arrived in 1996, bought a home for $465,000, and pays $6,000 in property taxes. Both homes are now worth $400,000 each, and without Prop 13 the state would receive about $10,500, but the reality is the state gets $6,600, leaving a deficit.

The ballot has been used before to remedy this inequality but fails, because those with unfair advantage wish to keep the status quo and they all vote. Renters, newly arrived, start-ups vote less often, sometimes because they work two or three jobs to make ends meet

Solving this fundamental problem is going to require (gasp!) maturity and a sense of fairness from Californians.

I expect no change in my lifetime but am willing to be disappointed.

Sure the Dem leaders will buy it, just hive them a little time to disguise it.

RD,

Question on question.

“Why is it that, when it is the Boardroom that causes the mess it is the classroom that suffers the most”?

Is it possible as the classrooms suffer, increased ignorance is easier to manipulate then educated masses?

Thank goodness Ahnold is unable to attain the presidency or we’d see another form of Reaganism for certain. The voter is going to have to separate personality from ability when casting a ballot!

During his first campaign, the Governator swore he would never need special interest money as he is so personally wealthy. The day after his election he flew to NYC and raised more such money than anyone in history.

This is sour grapes for the voter’s refusal to pass a garbled and semi coherent set of bills that would have solved nothing. Why is it that, when it is the Boardroom that causes the mess it is the classroom that suffers the most? Not overlooking the hardships to families and essential service providers…..

At this point I seriously doubt that California can be saved by anyone. When the political system cannot solve it’s problems there are few other means available to do it. Most of those are highly distasteful.

If it was me, I would give the legislators a chance, to consider the pain they will cause us if they don’t act, then I would declare a state of Emergency and then declare martial law. I would bring in marshalls to lock them up in the state house until they get off their ass and do the right thing. I would   make them work around the clock until it’s done, come hell or high water, or throw them in jail for contempt.

Both parties are equally to blame, no matter how they rationalize it. The people should recall every last one of them.