I see my comments regarding sodomites has been removed.  Thus, I too must leave permanently.  Enjoyed the love fest for the short time I was here, but censorship regarding sodomites is another testimonial of whats wrong with our society.

God bless to everyone

And Russian Paul,

In case you missed it, I have the exact same feelings for people who kill babies.

REF: RobertinWestbury

You don’t know and do not want to know.
You assume that you know what you believe is accurate. Doesn’t that sound strange?

You are amongst the 2.3% who “know.” Believe it or not. Like dogs, people can survive recycling their own excretement and urine. For most people, they would absolutely have to be in a life-or-death sitution to go to such extremes. Dismissing what most of us choose to abide with - civilization - is challenged by some, sometimes call those rebels without a cause.

I mean, Nature only created two genders.  It shouldn’t surprise anyone that most people would find both appealing sexually.

In my experience, generalizing comments like that are usually made by insecure bisexuals trying to “normalize” their sexuality, to make it more mainstream or something.

Abu - What you are speaking is hatred and bigotry and there is nothing moral about that.

Russian..

“but I never trust these “everyone is bisexual” theories, it just doesn’t reflect reality.”

Oh I disagree.  Reality to most people is what they can see.  And for those bisexuals who identify as straight and live as straight that is what you see.  That doesn’t provide anyone a picture of their private desires or thoughts… which is the real reality… 

I mean, Nature only created two genders.  It shouldn’t surprise anyone that most people would find both appealing sexually. 

The sources are plentiful…. enough to provide the statistics to a college human sexuality course.  I don’t have the time nor the desire to try finding those sources.  Anti-gay people would just dismiss them anyway… I’ve learned over the years that if I spend alot of time finding sources to support an argument it usually is in vain and ends up time wasted when I should have been studying for my current college course. 

At my age (nearly 50) I need to focus on finishing the degree.  I’m only one class away from it.  But I’ve spent the last 14 years debating this issue, mostly with my conservative Mormon family.  And after 14 years it hasn’t changed their views much.  I feel like I’ve wasted valuable time I should have used to finish the degree and get a better career. 

Amazing what we’ll do in attempting to bring some acceptance to ourselves.  And now, oddly, 14 years later, it just isn’t important to me anymore.

Robert, I think you need to back that theory up with some sources. I will agree that the boundaries are not black and white and there probably is a spectrum, but I never trust these “everyone is bisexual” theories, it just doesn’t reflect reality.

Dave - People should not be able to vote on which rights we can and can’t have. And now, the California Supreme Court has basically ruled that the voters can put any civil rights issue on a ballot and vote it down.

So we can now vote away the rights of any minority. This is not just about gay couples anymore.

One more point…

What a wonderful way for the churches to keep a grip on their people… 

If 80% have the capacity for bisexual attraction, and are secret about the gay part of it…  what happens when the churches preach that it is a sin?  It causes guilt in them.  And it solidifies opposition to fair and equal treatment for those who are openly gay and not ashamed of it. 

Shame and guilt are tools churches employ to control people.  And sexuality is one way they maintain a grip on people. 

Without fear and shame, they would be out of business…  literally..

“Cannot understand the reluctance to discuss hard statistics.”

There are no hard statistics..  The exact number or percentage of gay people to the rest of the population isn’t known.  There are no facts on the matter because there is no way to accurately count people based on sexual orientation. 

Much of that is because the stigma is still so strong in certain populations that many people wouldn’t be open or honest about it. 

The biggest reason is because the census doesn’t even attempt to do a count of gay people.  Republicans have blocked efforts to identify numbers of gay people because they didn’t want that number to be known. 

What I learned years ago in my Human sexuality class was that roughly 10% is gay, but only 10% are exclusively heterosexual as well.  The other 80% are biologically bisexual and choose to identify as heterosexuals to avoid the stigma and because they want children and family.  It is this 80% that are generally the most homophobic.  Studies have shown that men who secretly harbor attractions to the same sex are generally the most verbally and physically abusive to openly gay men to ensure nobody would question their sexuality. 

But they don’t hesitate to stop off in a park or have a littly tryst in the steam room of a gym with another guy…. 

It also explains, I think, why so many people cling to the idea that homosexuality is a choice.  For bisexuals it would be.  And if most of the population are clinically bixexual, they would see it a choice for them and would incorrectly assume then, that it is a choice for everyone. 

It isn’t….

re: By Hawkeye, May 27 at 9:29 pm:

Hawkeye, the implication of your question is that the statistics would tell us whether this issue is important or not. That is evidence of your ethical obtuseness and lack of respect for the humanity of people who are not like you. I explained this to you, and I wasn’t nice about it, and I’m not sorry, especially since you clearly still can’t understand or refuse to understand.

The bottom line is that it is all about money.

Huh? It’s all about equal rights. If you accept homosexuality as a natural part of the human condition, that some people are just born this way, then it’s only logical to supply them with full equal rights as citizens, including being able to marry. If you see homosexuality as unnatural then your convoluted posts make more sense as you are only trying to justify your own bigotry.

I mean c’mon, you think civil rights is “propoganda and brainwashing?”

By the way the statistics range from 2% to 10% I believe the number lies somewhere in between, which is a large fucking demographic and they certainly deserve to be seen as equal under the law.

REF: ED (edgy dude?)

Cannot understand the reluctance to discuss hard statistics. Everything is cloudy and defensive.

I loved the one answer, however, about the importance of companionship. Cannot argue with that. Yes, that makes sense, damned good sense. First clearcut rational answer that I have ever read on this subject. I think I can connect the rest of the dots.

Humankind have struggled to make a go of it for thousands of years.

“The bottom line is that it is all about money. You got your dominate personality who needs some kind of submissive personality getting together. Same with dogs and cats and so on. “

Nonsense…  It’s about health.  Studies have regularly shown that people who are married live longer than those who aren’t.  It’s called companionship, and that is the most important thing about marriage. 

We’re all supposed to have the right to the pursuit of happiness.  Most people cannot fathom happiness existing without companionship and family ties. 

THAT is what it’s about. 

Maybe in heterosexual couplings - what with the patriarchy evangelical and fundamentalist religion promotes, there is a need for a dominate and passive pair.  But for gay couples, not always but mostly, the relationship is more egalitarian.

The bottom line is that it is all about money. You got your dominate personality who needs some kind of submissive personality getting together. Same with dogs and cats and so on.

It is that old ying-yang thing all over again.

“There must be millions more that I realized, judging from the great interest. “

There probably are millions more than you realized.  But even if there weren’t, the issue not only affects those of us who are gay, but members of our families and friends who support us.

And there is a great deal of emotional (if not prejudiced) interest in those who oppose marriage equality as well. 

In short, there are many people who have an interest in it, and therefore a story like the court ruling is news. 

I have absolutely no interest in sports.  In my mind there is no bigger waste of time.  Yet, I wouldn’t think of deriding a news organization or the media in general for carrying stories on the subject.  What may be of no interest to me, I fully understand may be of considerable interest to others…. 

In the last month, three additional states legalized marriage equality and one enshrined discrimination contrary to their own ruling a year ago. 

THAT IS WHY THERE IS SO MUCH NEWS ON HOMOSEXUALITY.

And actually, none of it was literally about homosexuality, rather the struggle for equal treatement for people who just happen to be homosexual.

REF: ED H.

Why get angry when asked about demographics? Numbers speak for themselves. The U.S. Census provides an essential data base for governmental planners. Whether or not one is homosexual or not, it is important to know.

“When the finger points to the moon, the fool stares at the finger.”

re: By Hawkeye, May 27 at 6:45 pm:

Hawkeye: are you aware that, from the point of view of ethics and human rights, it doesn’t matter how many homosexuals there are?

Try to imagine this: what if the US had laws unfairly limiting the civil rights of Jews. For example, suppose there were laws telling Jews who they could or couldn’t marry, or forbidding them to serve in the military.

Would you be saying, “Hey, wait a minute! Why are we hearing so much griping about these laws that have nothing to do with 97% of Americans!”?

Hawkeye, you’re a smug, bigoted, complacent creep, with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, and barely a shred of the ethical insight that anyone would need to appreciate concepts such as political equality or justice.

“There was a vote! The people decided!”

Stupid fool.  It is not the place of the people to decide whether a class of people can be treated equally under the law or not. 

It was never legitimate that the vote was ever held. 

I have waited my entire life to have the same opportunities in this life that my heterosexual brothers have had.  You want to trivialize that as ‘crying?’ 

Our time will never come if we shut up about it.  We must and will fight, and if that comes across to you as ‘crying,’ then so be it..

REF: WHY SO MUCH NEWS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY

Why are there so many posts about homosexuality here? If this is such an urgent issue, as so frequently freatured in mainstream media, I am now wondering what is the total estimated population of homosexuals in the USA? There must be millions more that I realized, judging from the great interest.

Is it that homosexuals are a very larger proportion of the population or is it the number of stories and articles seen everyday in the MSM?

Anybody else wonder if this is possibly MSM applying advertising principles of reach, repetitions to influence the target audience?

I know that “news” has become a side issue and TV broadcasters clearly program to influence. Propaganda and brainwashing techniques have great influence.

Does Olson, that old right-wing snake in the grass, really support gay marriage rights? Or is he simply eager to have the issue decided by our conservative-packed Supreme Court - ending all hope of marriage equality for generations?

This smells like sabotage. Have we all forgotten Olson’s history? He’s not to be trusted.