Jay Draiman,

part 1 of 2

We’ve heard and debunked your tired Zionist lies and propaganda more time than we care to remember.

Palestine was populated by a people long before Israel was even a concept.  The Palestinians are Palestinians, end of discussion.  They are not just Arabs, but decedents of the original Judeans, (yes that’s right, the Jews) as well as the Arabs that latter invaded.  Israeli Scholars have universally accepted that those that remained after the Roman wars became the ancestors to the Palestinians of today.  Until the 19548 war, Palestinians were overwhelming majority of the population.  Tehre’s no point denying it.

The reference/title Palestine was determined by the British Mandate of Palestine, in 1922 and included all the land lying to the west of the Jordan River; that is, all of what is now Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza Strip. The term “Palestinian” referred to all people residing there, regardless of race or religion. Those granted citizenship, were granted “Palestinian citizenship”. That included descendents of Judah who were there. For the most part Palestinians got along fine until the Russian and European refugees began to arrive.  Until the 1948 war, Jews only owned 7% of the land in Palestine.

There would never have been a Jewish state had the Zionists not driven 800,000 Palestinians from their land, as they had planned to do for half a century.

Any Jew in Israel today, who descends from a Jewish citizen in British mandated Palestine, is technically a Palestinian.

Ben-Gurion stated in an article published in 1918 that:
“Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants.”

Ardent Zionists, like Israel Zangwill, stated as early as 1905, that Palestine was twice as thickly populated as the United States. He stated:
“Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us.” (Righteous Victims, p. 140 & Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7-10)

So to get back to your example of Europeans countries, you are right.  No people would cede part of their country to set up another State in their midst. That is precisely what happened to the Palestinians.

The Palestinians in Israel were there for centuries. The Romans didn’t expel whole nations from their territories and the remaining inhabitants of ancient Judea remained, converting to Islam and assimilating with their conquerors when Arabs subjugated the area. They became the progenitors of today’s Palestinian Arabs, many of whom now live as refugees who were exiled from their homeland during the 20th century.

So in answer to your lie, yes, there are Palestinian and always have been.  One quote from a PLO member in 1977 means nothing,

The Qur’an adn the Bible are irrelevant to the discussion, because God is not a real testate agent.  This is a question of law, international law, property rights and human rights. At the time of Israel’s creation, Jews owned less that 7% of the land in Palestine.

Continued…

Jay Draiman,

Part 2 of 2

The San Remo Resolution, specifically states that"the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine” should not be violated in any way. Obviously you haven’t read it.

As for the League of Nations and the United Nations, Israel is the only State admitted to UN membership on condition that it would be obedient to the world body and be bound, more specifically, by two General Assembly resolutions – of November 1947 for partition of Palestine and of December 1948 enshrining the right of the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes or be satisfied with compensation.  Israel rejected the partition.  Ben Gurion said that Israel would never be bound by it, to Israel violated the UN Charter.

No body given Jewish People title to the city of Jerusalem, none.  The city wasn’t even built by Jews, but by the Cannanites.

PS.  Research dating back from the 1920’s reveals that the Jewish people have no greater claim to Jerusalem than any other religion.

A 1999 article from Ha’aretz, entitled “Deconstructing the walls of Jericho”, reported that after 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years. No remains of buildings have been found from the period of the united monarchy (even according to the agreed chronology), only a few pottery shards. Given the preservation of the remains from earlier and later periods, it is clear that Jerusalem in the time of David and Solomon was a small city, perhaps with a small citadel for the king, but in any event it was not the capital of an empire as described in the Bible.

Felicia,

Invective aside, may God protect your children and keep them safe.

No you’re not on NM anymore.  It seems they don’t appreciate your bile.

I know you well enough to recognize your posts.

So your I take it your children are all unemployed? None seem to have a real job. Are they in the IDF? 

Funny how you’re so interested in my wife.  You must have a lonely existence.

you are cute!

oh, you think i’m not an NM anymore…nice. shouldn’t you be quoting your immigration stats sometime soon? : )

it is not very polite to kill off your mother…she won’t find that very funny. i’ll be seeing her next tuesday.

after raising three boys and a girl, i think i know a thing or two about child-raising. two pilots, a paratrooper and a tank instructor. btw, it’s not that tiring when you’re not carrying too much weight…or perhaps she’s just ignoring you??

Felicia,

A psychiatrist who is so respected that she has waits for patients to arrive.  I never heard of one of those.  So you’re not a real doctor are you?

I can only imagine how messed up your patients must be when they come out of one of your sessions. How do you treat women who are overweight or not as beautiful as you?

You haven’t posted at NM since you appeared here.  There’s a new thread now on Israel and it’s such easy pickings there with just Jewboy and revilo to beat up.  It’s almost boring.  They really are at a loss without you.

>> she did break it off with you unless you are claiming that your mother is a liar…although, that wouldn’t surprise me much either.

Oh dear, you really have lost it haven’t you?  You have just stepped into your own trap it seems. My mother you see, has been dead for quote some time, so it seems you don’t know me at all.

Ooops.

Like I said, I work long hours on the computer and spend much time with my child while my wife rests. You probably never had children so you are unfamiliar with the early months of rasing a baby.  It’s very tiring for the mother.

indeed, it’s tough be a respected psychiatrist and being asked to teach at a leading australian university was another major blow.

no, i don’t miss posting at NM because i continue to do so. it is fun running circles around you.

and yes, she did break it off with you unless you are claiming that your mother is a liar…although, that wouldn’t surprise me much either.

i don’t wish for the failure of your marriage. it is just clear that for a young couple, you seem to spend a helluva lotta time on the net. : )

Felicia darling,

You haven’t baited me sweetie.  You came here looking for me when you got booted from NM.  Do you miss not being able to post at NM?

Now go back and read my post again.  It reads:

“I got the marks to get into medicine and chose engineering instead.”

So, while I achieved a score to get into medicine, I chose Engineering instead. There is no acceptance letter because I never applied for medicine.

No it’s not a trap my dear.  I know you are all excited, thinking that you got me caught in a little web, but you blew your wab a little to early.

You poor thing.  All you have up your sleeve is personal attacks on me, my wife and whether she’s chubby or not (as though to suggest that carrying weight after a pregnancy is a sign of failure on a woman’s part).  You really do have complex.  You sound like a prime candidate for bulimia.

No my fiance never broke it off with me, and I wont share my personal life with you.

Wow, it just occured to me how much I must have
wound you up that you should be so bitter and virtriolic; that you should even wish for the failure of my marriage. 

What a sad life you must lead.

oh shinga’le

you are so easy to read and even easier to bait.

i love your seriousness…“i got accepted to medicine but…” blab blah blah. for once, just once, prove yourself. let me see your acceptance letter to medicine…you can delete your name or whatever you like…just for once, be a man and prove it. who performed your entrance interview? where was it held? let’s see if you’re the real deal or just hot air.

now, i’ll just wait for the excuses to come rolling in.

dug yourself into a trap this time.

btw, it’s ok that your fiance broke it off with you…it’ll put you in good stead for when porky leaves you…

Felicia,

Democracy and enthic, religious, racial segregation are mutually exclusive.

Democracy and human rights vilations are mutually exclusive.

Democracy and war crimes are are mutually exclusive.

Democracy and vilations of international law are mutually exclusive.

>> not everyone gets accepted to study medicine.

Big deal.  Not everyone makes a million dollars either.  I got the marks to get into medicine and chose engineering instead.

In any case, you must be the only doctor in Australia who is in such low demand that she waits for patients to arrive. 

>> so present some then. stop wasting my time.

I have.  How many links have you provided?  Face it, , you just joined this thread because you saw my name right?

>> incorrect again. is this another fact or is it based upon evidence. you clearly do not understand the differnce between politics and humanity. it’s ok though, you’re slow.

You have no regard for humanity.  Setting aside the fact that you are quick to judge women based on their sexuality and apperance, you have voiced support for the policy of ethnic cleasing, which is a vilation of interntaionalaw and human rights.

>> again, you clearly have no idea about the life of israeli arabs.

Of course I do.  It’s very simple.  They have less rights that Israeli Jews.  Isreli Arabs are 3rd class citizens behind Serphadic Jews, who are in turn behind Ashkenazi Jews.  In fact, one could argue that they are 4th class citizens if you include the Etheopean Jews.

>> we have already established that your argument is full of holes. wake up, junior!

Nice play on words.  You claim it’s full of holes, but you can’t claim it’s false.

>> don’t worry, it’ll pass. just like the last one. ouch!

The last one was fine.  We’re best friend in fact.

>> do you want names?

I tell my wie she is beautiful every day, so I guess that proves she is beautiful.

>> you love labels don;t you. you should spend more time constructing arguments.

Labels work when they are appropriate.  You are a labeller’s dream.

No and like Isreal, Syria isn’t a demiocrcy either.
Thanks for helping me make my point.

- i am not sure that you know what the term ‘democracy’ means.

You’re not very bright are you?

- not everyone gets accepted to study medicine.

Evidence my dear.  I know the concept is foreign to you.

- so present some then. stop wasting my time.

No it’s correct.  You consider Arabs to be sub human and your grandmother, taught you to hate non Jews.

- incorrect again. is this another fact or is it based upon evidence. you clearly do not understand the differnce between politics and humanity. it’s ok though, you’re slow.

Unless they are non Jewish.

- again, you clearly have no idea about the life of israeli arabs.

You just admitted that Arabs cannot marry Arabs and rbing them to Israel.  Make up your mind.

- we have already established that your argument is full of holes. wake up, junior!

Which ones?  The Israeli or German variety?

- the self-hating variety.

I don;t feel bad about my wife at all.  She’s the best thning that ever happened to me, along with the child she gave me.

- don’t worry, it’ll pass. just like the last one. ouch!

Who told you you were thin and beautiful?

- do you want names?

Indeed, in a city like Sydney, it’s parfor hte course.  So are you a homophobe as well as a mysoginistic racist?

- you love labels don;t you. you should spend more time constructing arguments. silly boy.

Felicia,

Did someone highjack your name?

>>  tell me, can a syrian jew marry an israeli and bring him/her to syria?

No and like Isreal, Syria isn’t a demiocrcy either. 
Thanks for helping me make my point.

You’re not very bright are you?

>> Is this a fact?

Evidence my dear.  I know the concept is foreign to you.

>> another fact? incorrect.

No it’s correct.  You consider Arabs to be sub human and your grandmother, taught you to hate non Jews.

>> israel is a secular state and provides equal rights to all of its citizens.

Unless they are non Jewish.

>> there is doubt. and you are wrong again.

You just admitted that Arabs cannot marry Arabs and rbing them to Israel.  Make up your mind.

>> i was just thinking the same thing about nazis

Which ones?  The Israeli or German variety?

>> you’re really onto something here. gee you’re getting desperate. btw, don’t feel bad that your wife is a fatty. we can’t all be thin and beautiful.

I don;t feel bad about my wife at all.  She’s the best thning that ever happened to me, along with the child she gave me. 

Who told you you were thin and beautiful?

>>no. i just get a gay vibe from you. i’m sure it’s not the first time you’ve heard that. in fact, i know it’s not.

Indeed, in a city like Sydney, it’s parfor hte course.  So are you a homophobe as well as a mysoginistic racist?

99% of people on forums user names other than their own, so take it up with the world.

- did you perform empirical analysis on the subject or is another one of your so-called “facts”?

After all, you will recall that another Zionist shill highjacked rosRoss’s name to pose as her.

- ditto.

Yes I know plenty of aboriginal people.  My father of law is a doctor who spends a great deal of time tending to aborigines

- wow, that is soooooooooo cool!

and no, the Australian government does not have a policy of enthncialy pleasingly aborigines, murdering them and imprisoning them.

- what is “ethnic pleasing”?

What comments?  I have roundly expressed outrage and regret at the treatment of aborigines in Australia.

- yeah right!

They are not allowed to marry Arabs and bring them into Israel.

- tell me, can a syrian jew marry an israeli and bring him/her to syria? i’ll save you the embarassement, the answer is ‘no’. what is the reason for this? hmmmmm, could it be because the two countries are at war? you’re not very bright are you?

That’s because you never lived there

- is this a fact?

You discriminate of both race and religion.

- another fact? incorrect.

I have. Democracy is based on seperation of church and state and liberty for all.

- correct. israel is a secular state and provides equal rights to all of its citizens.

Again, for your benefit:

There is no doubt that Israel has prejudiced “the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities”.  In fact, you have stated that you support policies which undeniably prejudice “the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities”.

- there is doubt. and you are wrong again.

If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck…

- i was just thinking the same thing about nazis

In any case, you never explained why you hate women.  You regard sexually liberated women as “fast” and post natal women as chubby, so there are clear signs of misogyny.

- riiiiiiiiiiight. you’re really onto something here. gee you’re getting desperate. btw, don’t feel bad that your wife is a fatty. we can’t all be thin and beautiful.

No why?  Do you have a fascination with homosexuality?

- no. i just get a gay vibe from you. i’m sure it’s not the first time you’ve heard that. in fact, i know it’s not.

felicianixon,

99% of people on forums user names other than their own, so take it up with the world.

After all, you will recall that another Zionist shill highjacked rosRoss’s name to pose as her.

>> how would you know? are you stalking me?

By your own admission.

>> are you that out of touch? you should try speaking to an aborigine? you probably don’t leave the burbs much.

Yes I know plenty of aboriginal people.  My father of law is a doctor who spends a great deal of time tending to aborigines and no, the Australian government does not have a policy of enthncialy pleasingly aborigines, murdering them and imprisoning them.

>> your comments show that this is clearly not the case for you.

What comments?  I have roundly expressed outrage and regret at the treatment of aborigines in Australia. You are projecting again Felicia.

>> false.

That’s not a rebuttal.  You lose.

>> all holders if israeli passports (including arabs obviously) are entitles to leave the country and marry as they wish. not sure where you get your “facts” from.

They are not allowed to marry Arabs and bring them into Israel. 

>> do i have a right of return to poland or germany?

That’s because you never lived there, however, you do have every right to migrate there and your application woudl NEVER be rejected on the grounds of your ethnicity or religion.

>> not a biggie.

Was it a biggie when the Nazi’s did it?

>> See my last comment.

that too was false.

>> incorrect. i do not discriminate on the basis of race.

You discriminate of both race and religion.  We’ve already established that.  After all, your grandmother taught you that “a goy is a goy”.  Not your fault really.  It’s the way you were raised.

>> very easily.

Yes, Zionism is based on many contradictions.

>> incorrect again. check any book or website that you like.

I have. Democracy is based on seperation of church and state and liberty for all.  Israel contradicts these very tenets.

>> incorrect again. you are slow, aren’t you?

In the absence of evidence to support your argument, you lose again.  So sorry.

>> there certainly is doubt.

Again, for your benefit:

”....it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

There is no doubt that Israel has prejudiced “the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities”.  In fact, you have stated that you support policies which undeniably prejudice “the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities”.

>> wasn’t aware that you are qualified to diagnose obssesion or any other mental illnesses. good to know.

If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck…

>> how can a spinster be married? more of your doublethink i suspect…

So you are married?  In any case, you never explained why you hate women.  You regard sexually liberated women as “fast” and post natal women as chubby, so there are clear signs of misogyny.

>> re you a closet homosexual?

No why?  Do you have a fascination with homosexuality?  Perhaps that is why you hate women?

furthermore, why do you feel the need to hide behind a phoney username? don’t you feel confident enough to put your name to your posts?

You and your parents are in Australia and most of your family does not live in Palestine.

- how would you know? are you stalking me?

In any case, you must live here to know who I am, becasue I am certainly not famous in Israel.

- you are not famous in australia either. get over yourself.

The good thing is that Australia stopped doing that over a century ago.

- are you that out of touch? you should try speaking to an aborigine? you probably don’t leave the burbs much.

Yes we’re sorry and more importantly, everyone in this country recognizes that is was a shameful and appaling chapter of the country’s history.

- your comments show that this is clearly not the case for you.

In other words, Isrel is stuck in a 200 year old time warp.

- you sound like the script writer for Lost!

False.  Since 1922, eveyone living in the region known as Palestine were referred to as Palestinians.

- false.

Rubbish.  They are not alloweddto leave the country and return and they are not free to marry any Arabs outiside the state of Israel.

- false. all holders if israeli passports (including arabs obviously) are entitles to leave the country and marry as they wish. not sure where you get your “facts” from.

Israel also denies the ruight of return to the Palestinians it drove outof the country

- do i have a right of return to poland or germany?

and Worst of all, there are laws being considered to force them to swear allegiance to the Jewish state and deny them the right to commemorate the Nakba.

- not a biggie.

We’ve already established that this is false.

- correct. we have established that your above premise is false. you clearly have little knowledge of the issue.

That’s also what happens during occupation.  There is no war in Palestine.

- see my last comment.

At least you are honest about being a racist.

- incorrect. i do not discriminate on the basis of race.

How can you not agree while saying you support the policies that woudl lead to these outcomes?

- very easily.

Isrel is a religious theocracy. 

- incorrect again. check any book or website that you like.

America and Australia put an end to the policies hundreds fo yeasr ago and have recgnized them as crimes againt humanity.  But thanks for your hinesty in admitting that Israel still continues these practices.

- incorrect again. you are slow, aren’t you?

The Baflour agreemtn stipulates that the rights fo non jews is not to be vilated.  There is no doubt that ISrlae has done so and planned this preior to the cretion of Israel.

- there certainly is doubt.

The only way for you to find out would be to go to grat trouble finding out who we are.  You are clearly obessed and a lttle derranged, but at least your harmless.

- not a great amount of trouble at all. wasn;t aware that you are qualified to diagnose obssesion or any other mental illnesses. good to know.

Is it becasue you are an aged spinster?

- how can a spinster be married? more of your doublethink i suspect…

Are you a closet homosexual? have you had any homosexual experiences, particularly in your teen years? answer honestly now.

you’re a funny boy!

Felicia the stalker,

You and your parents are in Australia and most of your family does not live in Palestine.

In any case, you must live here to know who I am, becasue I am certainly not famous in Israel.
>> sure, if you consider slaughtering and disenfranchising a nation “freedom”.

The good thing is that Australia stopped doing that over a century ago.  Isral has been doing it for 60 years.

>> oh, i forgot..you said “sorry” which makes it all better…you are funny!

Yes we’re sorry and more importantly, everyone in this country recognizes that is was a shameful and appaling chapter of the country’s history.  Israel on the other hand, continues these policies to the current day and is full of extrsmists like you, who support these policies.

In other words, Isrel is stuck in a 200 year old time warp.
  Palestinians are not.

>> 1. there are no people called ‘palestinians’ so i am not sure who you are referring to

False.  Since 1922, eveyone living in the region known as Palestine were referred to as Palestinians.

>> 2. all israeli arabs (whom i guess you would call palestinians) have complete freedom of movement just like jewish israelis.

Rubbish.  They are not alloweddto leave the country and return and they are not free to marry any Arabs outiside the state of Israel.  Israel also denies the ruight of return to the Palestinians it drove outof the country and Worst of all, there are laws being considered to force them to swear allegiance to the Jewish state and deny them the right to commemorate the Nakba.

>> israeli arabs have exactly the same rights. citizens of gaza and the west bank should take the issue up with their own leadership.

We’ve already established that this is false.

>> you answered it yourself. palestinians are not.

That is becasue the policy of enthnic cleasing is still current.  Ben Gurion recognized the Palestinians were the indigeous people, so Isrlae know they are, they are just refusing to recognize it as a matter of policy.

>> that’s what happens in war. israelis (jews and arabs) are also murdered by their enemies. that’s life.

That’s also what happens during occupation.  There is no war in Palestine. 

>> in fact, the palestinian leadership (i.e. hamas and fatach do indeed “imprison them, bulldoze their homes, continue to steal their land and murder them on mass.”

Do you have any evidence of this?

>> of course i would. so would you i should hope.

But not the Palestinians.  At least you are honest about being a racist.

>> i agree. i do not agree however that israel is guilty of any of this.

How can you not agree while saying you support the policies that woudl lead to these outcomes?

>> israel certainly is a democracy

Isrel is a religious theocracy.  Of course, if holding democratic election is your only measure of a democracy, then so is Gaza.

>> incorrect.

No it’s definitely correct.  The Irgun and Stern gangs were terroring the Palestinain population for yeasr leading up to the war.

>> incorrect. so are america and australia ‘rogue states’ for supporting israel?

America and Australia put an end to the policies hundreds fo yeasr ago and have recgnized them as crimes againt humanity.  But thanks for your hinesty in admitting that Israel still continues these practices.

>> incorrect.

The Baflour agreemtn stipulates that the rights fo non jews is not to be vilated.  There is no doubt that ISrlae has done so and planned this preior to the cretion of Israel.

>> was never stalking them. jus happen to know who you and tubby are. that’s all.

The only way for you to find out would be to go to grat trouble finding out who we are.  You are clearly obessed and a lttle derranged, but at least your harmless.

Like taking candy from a baby. BTW.  Why do you hate women?  Is it becasue you are an aged spinster?

“part of my family settled in “palestine’ in the late 1800s/early 1900s and the rest were either killed off in europe or migrated to australia/usa.”

- exactly!proof that YOU are a liar…or an idiot.

Aborigines are free to live in any part of Australia they want to.

- sure, if you consider slaughtering and disenfranchising a nation “freedom”. oh, i forgot..you said “sorry” which makes it all better…you are funny!

  Palestinians are not.

- not true for two reasons: 1. there are no people called ‘palestinians’ so i am not sure who you are referring to and 2. all israeli arabs (whom i guess you would call palestinians) have complete freedom of movement just like jewish israelis.

Aborigines have the right to leave the country and return. Palestinians are not.

- israeli arabs have exactly the same rights. citizens of gaza and the west bank should take the issue up with their own leadership.

Aborigines are recognized as the indiginous peoepl of Australia by the Australian government.  Palestinians are not.

- you answered it yourself. palestinians are not.

Israel murders hundreds of Palestinians every year and denies them basic human right. The Australia governemnt does not.

- that’s what happens in war. israelis (jews and arabs) are also murdered by their enemies. that’s life.

The Palestinians are not the ones who have imprisoned them, bulldoze their homes, continue to steal their land and murder them on mass.

- complete rubbish. clearly you have little knowledge of the palestinian form of government and the goings on in the west bank and gaza strip. you want to talk about human rights abuse - you should take a look there. in fact, the palestinian leadership (i.e. hamas and fatach do indeed “imprison them, bulldoze their homes, continue to steal their land and murder them on mass.”

Because if the Israelis were being enthnically cleasned, you would be screaming it from your roof top.

- of course i would. so would you i should hope.

Because tethnic cleasing is theft, a crime against humanity,  a war crime and a violation of international law.

- i agree. i do not agree however that israel is guilty of any of this.

I know you are a rabid and radical extrmist, and apparently an ardent racist, but you cant pretend that Israel is a democracy, when it commits war cimes as a matter of policy and ideology.

- israel certainly is a democracy (you should check the meaning in a dictionary sometime) but it certainly does not “commit war cimes as a matter of policy and ideology.”

Because it proves that the 1948 war was not the reason for the ethnic cleasing of Palestine, but a pretext.

- incorrect.

Because it is a vilation of democracy and Western values and proves that Israel is a rogue state.

- incorrect. so are america and australia ‘rogue states’ for supporting israel?

Last but not least, becasue it violates the terms of the Balfour Declaration that led to the creation of the Israeli state.

- incorrect.

Translation: I don’t have any thing sensible to say anymore - not that I ever have.

- you said it!

Are you stil stalking my family BTW?

- was never stalking them. jus happen to know who you and tubby are. that’s all. or is that also a war crime/human rights abuse/breach of the balfour declaration???

too easy!

from your post at NM a few weeks ago:

“part of my family settled in “palestine’ in the late 1800s/early 1900s and the rest were either killed off in europe or migrated to australia/usa.”

Proof you are a liar.

“so what are you saying? they choose to live the way they do! how patronising.”

Aborigines are free to live in any part of Australia they want to.  Palestinians are not.

Aborigines have the right to leave the country and return. Palestinians are not.

Aborigines are recognized as the indiginous peoepl of Australia by the Australian government.  Palestinians are not.

Israel murders hundreds of Palestinians every year and denies them basic human right. The Australia governemnt does not.

“difference between the two is that the aborigine leadership isn’t the one keeping their own people down.”

The Palestinians are not the ones who have imprisoned them, bulldoze their homes, continue to steal their land and murder them on mass.  the

“so what? neither do i.”

Because if the Israelis were being enthnically cleasned, you would be screaming it from your roof top.

Because tethnic cleasing is theft, a crime against humanity,  a war crime and a violation of international law.  I know you are a rabid and radical extrmist, and apparently an ardent racist, but you cant pretend that Israel is a democracy, when it commits war cimes as a matter of policy and ideology.

Because it proves that the 1948 war was not the reason for the ethnic cleasing of Palestine, but a pretext.

Because it is a vilation of democracy and Western values and proves that Israel is a rogue state.

Last but not least, becasue it violates the terms of the Balfour Declaration that led to the creation of the Israeli state.

You probably never heard of the Balfour Delcaration, but it includes this passage:

“....it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

“all the rest - blah blah blah”

Translation: I don’t have any thing sensible to say anymore - not that I ever have.

Are you stil stalking my family BTW?

You said your parents lived in Australia, so you are a liar.

- wrong! you are a liar.

The Aborigines have freedom and a chance for a life free of carnage from an opressive government. 

- so what are you saying? they choose to live the way they do! how patronising. the difference between the two is that the aborigine leadership isn’t the one keeping their own people down.

The Zionists had plans to remove the Palestinians long before 1948.  As Ben Gurion told us, he saw no moral problem with the “transfer” of Arabs.

- so what? neither do i.

all the rest - blah blah blah

You said your parents lived in Australia, so you are a liar.

The Aborigines have freedom and a chance for a life free of carnage from an opressive government. 

The Zionists had plans to remove the Palestinians long before 1948.  As Ben Gurion told us, he saw no moral problem with the “transfer” of Arabs.

There was Israel Zangwill, who stated as early as 1905, that:

  “Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us.” (Righteous Victims, p. 140 & Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7-10)

There was Avraham Katznelson, another influential Mapai leader, who also said:

  “more moral, from the viewpoint of universal human ethics, than the emptying of the Jewish state of the [Palestinian] Arabs and their transfer elsewhere .... This requires [the use of] force.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 192)

Much too easy!!

For you to have gone to the trouble of finding out who I am demontrates your obsession.  Feel fre to drop in and see us.  My wife and I would be happy to offer you a glass of champagne.

which lies have i been caught in? i have told you repeatedly that I am here on a sabbatical year. god you’re slow.

Gee you’re naive - you think that the Aborigines somehow have it better. i’m betting that you’ve never even been to NT, nor gaza. just pure academics for you.

and yes, the palestinians did bring it upon themselves…please tell me who atacked who following partition in 48?

too easy!

not spying, just happen to know who you are

Sell out to what?

i was never part of the collective Felicia.  I prefer individuality. 

You just caught again in your own lies. You live in Australia. 

I never disputed that US remained behind Israel. And as a true partner to Israel, they are putting their foot down and forcing Israel to do what is in everyone’s best interests.

I completely agree that the conditions that many of the Australian aborigines live is appalling and a disgrace to Australia, though unlike Gaza, those conditions are not imposed and the Aborigines are free to travel to any part of the country, receive free and unlimited health care and welfare. They have no walls or fences imprisoning them and no one raining bombs on them

Most importantly, the Australia government has acknowledged is crimes and atrocities and in 2008, officially apologized to the aborigines.

The Palestinians didn’t bring enthic cleasing, and massacres upon themselves either.  The Zionist founders were planning the forceful removal of the Palestinians half a century before Israel was created.  Last but not least, aboriginal tribes have had large areas of land returned to them.  There is still a long way to go, but unlike Israelis with Palestinians, they are not regarded as beats with 2 legs.

How have you seen my family Felicia?  Do you have spies staling me?

have a whinge, sell-out!

my parents live happily in israel as do I (being seconded to this backward country has been “interesting”).

despite all your so-called “evidence”, the US remains behind israel as they know that they are their only true partner in the ME. clearly, Australia and other western countries also recognise this.

if you think that israel is a 3rd world country then obviously you haven’t been to Alice Springs recently. The way indigenous australians “exist” there is appalling and not dissimilar to refugess camps in gaza - the only difference being that the aboriginies did not bring it upon themselves. but still, you have a one-tracked mind and that stuff wouldn’t interest you…maybe at your next firmware upgrade you’ll be given the gift of thought…

btw, i’ve seen your family and “beautiful” isn’t exactly the first word that comes to mind

It astounds me the lengths to which you Zionist extremists will go in order to derail a discussion. 

It’s a sure measure of the desperation, hatred, anger and fear that is rising among them.  Like a wounded and cornered animal, all you can think of how to lash out.  It’s so sad.

Felicia, you are too pathetic and impotent for me to concern myself with any threat from you make, or insult you direct at my wife.  I’m blessed beyond words with a beautiful family, and nothing you could say could diminish that in any way.

Still, I wonder how proud your grandparents would be at your foul mouthed posts and attacks on women.  I’m sure that even the grandmother that taught you “a goy is a goy”  would have had more class.

Indeed the wheels of justice are turning and we are already seeing Israel mimic your irrational and deranged behavior on a macro level. 

Obama is putting his foot down with regard to the Settlements and a Palestinian state and the Zionists are in a spin.  I fact, Obama stated that the settlements (ie. Israeli policy) is a threat to America’s security interests.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/28/barack-obama-jewish-settlements-israel-palestine-relations

Israel’s leaders are in a panick about Obama meeting with the Palestinians leadership.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/28/obama-presses-israel-pale_n_208873.html

You know, you really should move to Israel Felicia. I know your parents think the place is a hole (preferring to live in Australia), but with the Israeli emigration out pacing immigration, they need all the help they can get.  Do you grandparents live in Israel, or have they also decided against living in a 3rd world country?

not at all, was just remarking on her weight. or do you wish to censor that as well?

but i guess, id she holds views similar to yours, she too will find no place for herself when the wheels of justice return to motion.

Felicia,

Say what you will about me, but my wife has nothing to do with this thread. 

For the record, are you threatening her?

not your wife, your chubby wife. still hasn’t dropped those pregnancy pounds yet, huh?

felicianixon,

You are so bitter and twisted, I can’t help but wonder if you’re not related to those Israeli rabbis who are filled with hate and bloodlust. 

You are the new Nazis Felicia.  You are the ones striving for a society based on enthnic purity, and promulgating the belief that God chose you and gave you the right to purify the land of the goy as you like to call them.  Nazi’s practiced ethnic cleasing, and mass murder, just like Israel.

Cowardice is the inabilty to stand up to injustic and human rights abuses. Cowardice is the fear of expressing your will and speaking the truth.

So you have your eye on me.  Well good for you, coz I could care less because I have better things to focus on in my life than some deranged woman who supports mas murder and human rights abuses in the name of religion.

That you feel the need to threaten my wife, amply demonstrates what a sick puppy you are.

Shingo

You are a nazi and coward and your jewish grandparents are probably turning in their graves although, if they are anything like you, the were kapos during the war and anyway deserve to rot in hell.

I’ve got my eye on you, and your chubby wife!

Oh poor Felicia.

Did you get booted from the NW site?  Looking for a new home and friends are we? 

Good luck.  The posters here will have you for breakfast.  Too easy.

shingo:

whinge, whinge, whinge…moan, moan, moan.

when you are capable of original thought, please check back in.

poor sheep!

Ian,

Part 1 of 2

>> This is irrelevant because we aren’t talking about other buildings, we are talking about the school.  I admit that Israel did bomb other UN buildings, but
they had terrorists in them, so it is justified.

There is no evidence that these building had terrorist in the, unless of course, you are referring to any Palestiains that ends up being killed. 

In fact, we can safely assume that to be a lie, because the only source of the allegation is the IDF, which blocked foreign journalists from entering Gaza, in violation of their own Supreme Court Ruling.  Your willingness to accept anything the Israeli government says as as fact again exposes you as an Israeli propagandist.

No it’s not irrelevant at all.  Israel has a long and sordid history of attacking UN facilities and then denying it.  During the Lebanon campaign, Israel attacked UN compounds in spite of repeated calls from those inside the compound alerting the IDF to their location.  Israel denied that until the media exposed their lies.

There was of course, the shelling of the refugee compound in Qana in 1996, where the the UN were pressured not to investigate the attack until an Israeli officer provided a tape of an Israeli drone firing rockets at the compound that killed hundreds of Palestinian refugees.

>> Your link to WP is absurd.  I’ve read so many times that it’s illegal, I didn’t need your link to tell me.  I asked for which international law declares it illegal.

You haven’t even bothered to read the link I provided.

So your argument is that the senior military analyst for New York-based Human Rights Watch, doesn’t know what he’s talking about is it?

Does the opinion of the director of the International Bar Association in London suffice, or is he also a liar?

“The use of white phosphorus is banned as a weapon that causes ‘unnecessary suffering,’ ” says Mark Ellis, director of the International Bar Association in London. “It isn’t to be used in civilian areas, or indeed against people since it creates horrible damage to the human body, and unnecessarily so.”

There can be no dispute that WP was absolutely used in civilian areas, because it was civilian areas that Israel were attacking.

Ian,

Part 2 of 2

You are doing everything you can to ignore the elephant in the room, because you cannot refute the argument.

>> I don’t know which country you’re from, but using American grammatical rules,  this sentence means: 1. Israel is the only country that celebrates the anniversary of a terrorist attack. 2. Israel is the only country that elected terrorist officials.
 
Actually, while I admit my sentence was vague, your argument is not true in any case.

If read correctly, the sentence said that 1. Israel is the only country that celebrates the anniversary of a terrorist attack and 2. It elected terrorist officials. 

>> When does Israel celebrate a terrorist attack?

Celebrating terror, Israeli-style
http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/24/stories/2006072403501100.htm

>> I have no idea what you are referring to.

We already established that.  You are surprisingly ignorant of this subject.

>> You are confusing different definitions of “democracy.”
Really?  So being the connoisseur of definitions and sources, please link to the multiple definitions of democracy that exist?

How does Israel, an apartheid and racist state, respect democracy? How is segregation, ethnic cleansing, land theft, torture, mass incarceration, and mass murder represent democratic values and leadership?  Unless of course, you have an obscure definition of democracy none of us have ever heard about?

The Irgun and Stern gangs were not democratically elected, nor did they have democratic values,and they too were a bunch of terrorist thugs.  They killed many of their own, including during the bombing of the Kind David Hotel. Those terrorist thugs went on to lead the state of Israel.

Israel routinely captures civilians off the street and holds them without charge, torturing and murdering them.  It rams boats in international waters.  It routinely violates the air space of it’s neighbors.  Israel in fact, is the only state that boats of it’s right to extra judicial killings (ie collaborators in extra-judicial fashion).

One could argue that Israel is no better than Hamas, and in fact, you just helped me to demonstrate that.

Israel’s Guantanamo Bay

UN torture watchdog demands access to secret jail

05.16.2009 | The National

By Jonathan Cook

Nazareth, Israel – “The United Nation’s watchdog on torture has criticised Israel for refusing to allow inspections at a secret prison, dubbed by critics as “Israel’s Guantanamo Bay”, and demanded to know if more such clandestine detention camps are operating.

In a report published on Friday, the Committee Against Torture requested that Israel identify the location of the camp, officially referred to as “Facility 1391”, and allow access to the International Committee of the Red Cross.

Findings from Israeli human rights groups show that the prison has in the past been used to hold Arab and Muslim prisoners, including Palestinians, and that routine torture and physical abuse were carried out by interrogators.

The UN committee’s panel of 10 independent experts also found credible the submissions from Israeli groups that Palestinian detainees were systematically tortured despite the banning of such practices by the Israeli Supreme Court in 1999.

The existence of Facility 1391 came to light in 2002, when Palestinians were detained there for the first time during Israel’s reinvasion of the West Bank.

In a submission to human rights groups last week, Israel denied that any prisoners are currently being held at the site, although it admits that several Lebanese were detained there during the attack on Lebanon in 2006. The committee expressed concern about an Israeli Supreme Court ruling in 2005 that found it “reasonable” for the state not to investigate suspicions of torture at the prison. The panel is believed to be concerned that without inspections the prison might still be in use or could be revived at short notice.

The Israeli court, the committee wrote, “should ensure that all allegations of torture and ill-treatment by detainees in Facility 1391 be impartially investigated [and] the results made public”.

Hamoked, an Israeli human rights organisation, first identified the prison after two Palestinian cousins seized in Nablus in 2002 could not be traced by their families. Israeli officials eventually admitted that the pair were being held at a secret site.

Israel still refuses to identify the precise location of the prison, which is inside Israel and about 100km north of Jerusalem. A few buildings are visible, but most of the prison is built underground.

“We only learnt about the prison because the army made the mistake of putting Palestinians there when they ran out of room in Israel’s main prisons,” said Dalia Kerstein, the director of Hamoked.

“The real purpose of the camp is to interrogate prisoners from the Arab and Muslim world, who would be difficult to trace because their families are unlikely to contact Israeli organisations for help.””

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/israels-guantanamo-bay/

By Shingo, May 22 at 6:07 pm #

“You’ll definitely want to watch this one Robert!!

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/8/former_amb_mar tin_indyk_vs_author

Like I said Ian. I can spot a Zionist shill a mile away and you have proven me right once again.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shingo,

I did watch this exact debate on Democracynow with Amy Goodman on that same day that it happened. Finkelstein was brilliant with his scholarly debating skills. Indyk panicked when he found out he was going to be debating Norman Finkelstein.

Ian,

You are entitled to your opinion regarding Finkelstein, but I disagree with your assessment.

I think that Norman Finkelstein is an excellent academic scholar. He has integrity, truth and a devoted courage to speak up for the oppressed and brutally occupied people of Palestine by Israel’s brutal IDF, and Finkelstein just tells it like it is.

AIPAC, hard core Zionists, and the Neocons don’t  
like him and in so many ways they have tried to silence & discredit him.

THE TRUTH IS ON THE SIDE OF THE OPPRESSED!

Ian,

part 1 of 2

You seem to be of the belief that ad hominems and straw men suffice for debate.  They do not.  I have no desire anything happe to the Jews, in this country or any other, but that reflexive reference to Jews is a text book Zionist tactic, so I was right about you.  You are indeed a Zionist shill.

The linkk you provided didn’t even mentoion a UN school.  You might wnat to repost, but it is rather odd that even thoguh the UN has suposedly cleared Israel of bombing the UN school, Israel still refuses to allow them access to investigate further, much as they did in Jenin in fact.

Of course, the issue of whether a UN school had been blown up or not would have veen verified in January had the IDF not illegally blocked internatinoal journalists from entering Gaza - voilating the ruling of their own Supreme Court. During the Lebanon conflict, Israel found themselves repeatedly exposed by the media that were there and weren’t going to allow that to happen a second time.

>> The inference was obviously not that Hamas blew it up (though they have rigged buildings with booby taps in the past), but that NOBODY blew it up. 

Perhaps, but UN buildings were destroyed by Israel and Israel did not even deny it, only refusing to apologise.

Israel says not to apologize for bombing UN facilities
http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=41387

>> Assuming, arguendo, that using WP on civilians isn’t illegal according to international law- then what are you accusing Israel of doing?

What absurd logc!!! Why would anyone assume that using WP on civilians isn’t illegal according to international law?  If it using WP on civilians isn’t illegal according to international law, then why did Israel deny using it, in spite of the evidence to the contrary?

>>  To quote you: if using WP is illegal, “then you should have no problem linking to it.”

Here you go:

“Mr. Garlasco, a senior military analyst for New York-based Human Rights Watch (HRW), says that the way Israel is using the incendiary device is illegal.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/p07s01-wome.html

>> Your assertion that Israel is the only country that elected terrorist leaders is false on many grounds.

I didn’t argue that at all and you know it.  I said that Israel is the ONLY country that has celebrated the anniversary of a decades old terrorist attack carried out in it’s name.  In 2006, much to the anger of the UK, Israel celebrated the 60th anniversary of the bombing of the King David Hotel. No other country thatI am aware of celebrates the anniversary of a terrorist attack at all, much less, 60 years on.

>> First, who are you referring to, and why are they terrorists.

Do I have to give you a history lesson too? Menachen Begin and Yitzak Shamir, were both leaders of terrorist s groups like the Stern Gang and the Irgun.  Surely you have heard of those groups Ian?  You can’t possibly be that ignorant can you?

>> If Shingo is the only person to think that someone is a terrorist, what does that say?

I take it back. You clearly are that ignorant.  The Stern Gang and Irgun were regarded as terrorist grous even inside Irsael and by the British forces.  That makes the leaders of these grops terroritsts too does it not?  The fact that the Stern Gang and the Irgun were terroists groups is a historical fact and the fact that they were led by 2 men who subsequently were elected to the office of Prime Minister of Israel is undisputed.

>> Next, the statement is false because Hamas was elected to lead the “palestinians,” and Hamas is acknowledged by the US, the EU, and all other credible bodies, to be a terrorist organization.

Indeed, and in spite of them being elected during the only demoncrati election in the Arab world, Israel, the US, the EU refuse to aknoweldged the outcome.  It just goes to show that Israel onyl respects demiocracy when it’s chosen are elected.

Ian,

part 2 of 2

>> Finally, the statement is misleading because many terrorist regimes have terrorist leaders- such as Iran,Syria, etc. 

Again I never said that Israel were the only country to elect terrosit leaders,  but the pathetic and juvenile accusation about who are terrorists and that terrorism does not pay is completely debunked and undermined by the simple fact that Isrel was founded on terrorism by terrorists who subsequently went on to enjoy the fruits of their actions.

Israel stands as a monument to terrorism.

The sad part is that while Israel is supposed to be a demoicracy, it stil managed to elect 2 former terroritst to the office of Prime Minister, so whether a country is a democracy or otherwise is irrelvant.

>> I think that Norman Finklestein is a nut who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, so I’m not sure I’d get much from the video.

Translation:  Finklestein is an academic with impeccable scholarly sources who presents undeniable facts that I am unable to refute and thus I shall simply not view it.

>> I’ve looked at some of his stuff in the past, and I find that he makes stuff up.

Rubbish.  All his arguments are sourced.  Provide an example or you are a liar.

Of course, we already know you are a liar don’t we?

>> Further, I wouldnt consider him an expert because he isnt recognized by the mainstream academic community.

What mainstream academic community?  By mainstream academic community, don’t you simply mean that Allan Dershotwitz does’t like him?

>> That tells me that the academics too consider him to be a wacko.

You mean the extrmist Zionist shill Allan Dershowitz?

Again, you have not refusted a single argument made by Finklestein because he puts your patetic propaghanda to shame.

If you want some entertainement, just watch ans Finkelstein makes minced meat of Martin Indik and how Indik runs away from the debate.  Like all Zionzizts, he’s such coward once hsi lies are exposed.

You’ll definitely want to watch this one Robert!!

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/8/former_amb_martin_indyk_vs_author

Like I said Ian. I can spot a Zionist shill a mile away and you have proven me right once again.

here is a link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/netanyahus-west-bank-nigh_b_206577.html

Very chilling Robert,

The war in Gaza compensation for the shortcomings of the 2006 Lebanon war.  Shooting at a defenseless population caged within concrete and steel walls and they call it heroic and brave.

No wonder the world has become sickened and disgusted with Israel.

How cowardly and pathetic.  Even with their 200 nukes, and 4th most powerful military in the world, the Israelis are still scared of their own shadow.

Ian…When you have some time on your hands & would like to see the TRUTH about what Israel did in Gaza, then click on the link below to watch Norman Finkelstein explain/lecture on the Gaza Massacre: Its a 9 part video series:

******************

Finkelstein on the Gaza Massacre (video)

Norman Finkelstein on Gaza “War”

05.04.2009 | Youtube/“hoopmov”

Note: Please click on the video’s right and left buttons to check Norman’s lecture from Part 1 to Part 9.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/finkelstein-on-the-gaza-massacre-video/

As if fascist Netanyaho and fascist Liebermann are not enough enough fascist leaders for the so-called “democratic Israel,” here’s the story of another fascist who would be the “power behind the throne” of the Israeli little empire. Uzi Arad would be the power behind the throne in Israel as the Zionist, son of a terrorist, Rahm Emanuel, is now the real power behind the throne of the Obama American “Kingdom.” Kindly, read the following article and then decide whether to cry or laugh, but most importantly get enlightened so that when Armageddon is finally upon us you will not have an excuse to say that I was taken by surprise!
=================================
Netanyahu Adviser Moves Out Of The Shadows
By Jonathan Cook

http://www.countercurrents.org/cook210509.htm

As might be expected of a former senior official with Israel’s spy agency Mossad, Uzi Arad - the most trusted political adviser to Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister - has got used to being in the shadows as he exerts influence. But that is fast changing. Mr Arad was prominent in preparing Mr Netanyahu’s tough positions as he headed for Washington this week to meet Barack Obama, the US president, who is seeking to advance a Middle East peace plan…”

mech’elsamberg,

I know you hate it when facts slap you in the face.

Isrel sent more than 7000 shells into Gaza over the 12 months right after they withdrew. They dropped at least 3000 in Gaza this time around, not to mention the carnage they wreaked in 2006.

BTW.  Seeing as you kow nothign abtou geography, they are Palestinians, and Gaza was never Transjordan. 

>> You apologists for terrorists are a joke.

As opposed to the real terrorist in Israel?  After all, Israel is the only country in the world that celebrated the anniversary of a terrorist attack (the Kind David Hotel bombing) and elected 2 terrorists leaders to the office of Prime Minister.

Israel -  the the terrosits state, founded on terrorism by terrorists, led by terrorists who revere and celebrate terrorism.

Shingo, you are full of it.  Israel did not send over 10,000 bombs to Transjordan.  You apologists for terrorists are a joke.

Howard,

Where have you been?  We’ve missed you?

There is no evidence, apart from the heresay of the ISraeli government (ie. lies) that the UN let their buildings and employees in gaza serve as factories and hide-outs for rockets and the making of rockets.

Only a racist extrmist like yourself woudl suggest the UN promotes not settling by any bordering Arab countries for the last 60 years.  The Palestinians do not want to live in bordering Arab countries and the Arab countries do not want the Palestinians to settle in their country.

I know you are a far of ethnic clasing and genocide, but this is ISrael’s problem, not the UN’s or those of the bordering Arab countries.

>> And, yes, where were they when the rockets and missles were for 3 years going into Israel onto civilians.??

Onto civilians?  How so?  Only abut 6 have died? 

>> All of a suddent the UN has got religion.  Imagine.

Yeah, the same UN that helped create Israel in the first place.  What idiots.

ian,

>> Hope you’re satisfied.

No I’m not.  The link leads nowhere.  The school was destroyed and we are to believe that Hamas did it? 

>>  Therefore, Israel did NOT bomb the UN school.

Yes, the scholl blew up all by itself.  Excellent observation.

>> Accusing me of being an Israeli shill is pretty dumb. 

You’re hair splitting and word play ove the notion fo whether the US of WP was illegal or otherwise was pedantic and clearly sidetepped the obvious notino that Israel used it against civilians, not as an illumintaion device.  After all, it was used it broad daylight

mech’elsamberg,

>>>For heaven’s sake, the Useless Nations sits in Gaza and lets 8 years and over 10,000 Qassams and Katyushas be bombed into Israel and now they want to feign interest?  How laughable!!!!

The UN seems to have a much luck stoppiong the Quassams as theu do stopping the more than 10,000 shells and missiles Isrlae have fired into Gaza, not to metion the illegal 2 year lbochade of Gaza.

The UN weren;t able to protect 400 children from being incinerated were they?

> Oh, yeah.  Play the emotional beggars with the woman and children ruse.

Too right mech’elsamberg.  After all, what are the poor IDF Israel to use for target practice if not woman and children?

>> Image that Israel is supposed to decide how many Transjordans killed based on how many Israelis and Jews are killed?

That’s easy.  They simply add up all the Palestinians killed by Israel and divide it by 10.

>> I didn’t know terrorists can set the rules.

Where have you been for the last 60 years mech’elsamberg?  One need only study Isrle to know that terrorists can not only set the rules, they can establish a terrorist state, and in the case of Israel, be elected to the office of Prime Minister (twice) if they persevere.

>> And the “anti-Zionists” can’t hide behind that politically correct label too much longer.

Oh I think they can becasue Israel, bt it’s extemism, stupidy and terrorism, makes it only too easy.

>> After the Bronx synagogue bombing plot, Americans are getting wise.

Notice that no Palestinians were involved?  Americans are gettign wise yes, and are havign a gut full of the ZIonist extremists who want to drage the US down with them.

>> This is Jew hatred, and not disagreement with Israel’s policies.

It is, but the only way you can make an argument is by pretending it’s all abotu Jew hatred.  After all, the UN founded Israel, so they are hardly Jews haters.

>> What the hell does the Islam religion teach that they draw so many haters?

I dunno.  Let’s see whathappens when 1,300 Israelis are slaugtered over a three weeks.

Howard, yes.  Imagine that Israel is supposed to decide how many Transjordans killed based on how many Israelis and Jews are killed?  I didn’t know terrorists can set the rules.  And the “anti-Zionists” can’t hide behind that politically correct label too much longer.  After the Bronx synagogue bombing plot, Americans are getting wise.  This is Jew hatred, and not disagreement with Israel’s policies.  All four were jailhouse converts.  What the hell does the Islam religion teach that they draw so many haters?

the UN is not blameless.  Let their buildings and employees in gaza serve as factories and hide-outs for rockets and the making of rockets. Also UN has separte refugee agency for the pal’s and it promotes not settling by any bordering arab countries for the last 60 years.  Not like the ‘main’ refugee agency which since world war II, has resettled 99% of its refugees.

And, yes, where were they when the rockets and missles were for 3 years going into Israel onto civilians.??  All of a suddent the UN has got religion.  Imagine.

LMAO.  Oh, yeah.  Play the emotional beggars with the woman and children ruse.

Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed
September 29, 2000 - Present

“123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,487 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

{Chart showing that approximately 12 times more Palestinian children have been killed than Israeli children.}

Israelis and Palestinians Killed

September 29, 2000 - Present
Chart showing that 6 times more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis.   

1,072 Israelis and at least 6,348 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Source)

Israelis and Palestinians Injured
September 29, 2000 - Present

8,864 Israelis and 39,019 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Source)

{Chart showing that Palestinians are injured at least four times more often than Israelis.}

Daily U.S. Taxes to Israel and the Palestinians
Fiscal Year 2007

Chart showing that the United States gives over 26 times more assistance to Israel than to Palestinian development organizations.   

During Fiscal Year 2007, the U.S. gave more than $6.8 million per day to Israel and $0.3 million per day to the Palestinians. (View Source)

UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians
1955 - 1992

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. (View Source)

{Chart showing that Israel has been targeted by over 60 UN resolutions, while the Palestinians have been targeted by none.}

Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees
Chart showing that Israel is holding over 8000 Palestinians prisoner.   

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Source)”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link to view source, charts and numbers:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

For heaven’s sake, the Useless Nations sits in Gaza and lets 8 years and over 10,000 Qassams and Katyushas be bombed into Israel and now they want to feign interest?  How laughable!!!!

Israel Bombs Main UN HQ / Compound With White ‘White Phosphorus’ Shells:

By Sheera Frenkel, Jerusalem, and Philippe Naughton

“January 16, 2009 “The Times—- January 15, 2009—- The main UN compound in Gaza was left in flames today after being struck by Israeli artillery fire, and a spokesman said that the building had been hit by shells containing the incendiary agent white phosphorus.

The attack on the headquarters of the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) came as Ban Ki Moon, the UN Secretary-General, arrived in Israel on a peace mission and plunged Israel’s relations with the world body to a new low.

Mr Ban expressed his “strong protest and outrage” at the shelling and demanded an investigation, only to be told by apologetic Israeli leaders that their forces had been returning fire from within the UN compound.

“The Israeli forces were attacked from there and their response was severe,” Ehud Olmert, the Prime Minister, told the UN chief, according to a statement released by his office.

“We do not want such incidents to take place and I am sorry for it but I don’t know if you know, but Hamas fired from the UNRWA site. This is a sad incident and I apologise for it.”

UNWRA, which looks after around four million Palestinian refugees in the region, suspended its operations in Gaza after the attack, in which three of its employees were injured.

Chris Gunness, a UNRWA spokesman, said that the building had been used to shelter hundreds of people fleeing Israel’s 20-day offensive in Gaza. He said that pallets with supplies desperately needed by Palestinians in Gaza were on fire.

“What more stark symbolism do you need?” he said. “You can’t put out white phosphorus with traditional methods such as fire extinguishers. You need sand, we don’t have sand.”

The Israeli military has denied using white phosphorus shells in the Gaza offensive, although an investigation by The Times has revealed that dozens of Palestinians in Gaza have sustained serious injuries from the substance, which burns at extremely high temperatures.

The Geneva Convention of 1980 proscribes the use of white phosphorus as a weapon of war in civilian areas, although it can be used to create a smokescreen. The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) said today that all weapons used in Gaza were “within the scope of international law”.

The attack on the UN compound came as Israeli forces pushed deeper into Gaza City and unleashed their heaviest shelling on its crowded neighbourhoods in three weeks of war. At least 15 Palestinians were killed in the Israeli attacks, medical officials said, pushing the death toll up towards 1,100 — a level that Mr Ban described as “unbearable”.

It was not clear whether the escalation signalled a new phase in the conflict. Israel has held back from all-out urban warfare in the narrow alleyways of Gaza’s cities, where Hamas militants are more familiar with the lay of the land.

Black smoke billowed over Gaza City, terrifying civilians who said that they had “nowhere left to hide” from the relentless shelling.

“I am telling you that Gaza is on fire, everything is under attack. We cannot begin to answer all the calls for help, it is desperate. We cannot reach the people, everyone is trapped and we do not know how to help them,” said Doctor Moussa El Haddad at Shifa Hospital.”
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Hey Ian…Welcome to the REAL WORLD. Its time to see the Real Story. You won’t see this on CNN & False(Faux) News.

Click on link to watch a very short video & read the rest of the article. BTW, I have much more to post if you need it:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21776.htm

Ian,

If memory does serves you correct, ie. that the UN issued a report saying that the school in question was not hit, the you should have no problem linking to it.

You have also asked for pictures of burn victims to prove that white phosphorus was used, which is illogical because only testimony can link the victims to exposure to WP, in which case:

Gaza victims’ burns increase concern over phosphorus
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5470047.ece

n’t go blaming Israel for not having evidence of these “war crimes.”

As for B’Tselem, are you somehwo arguing that they are biased against Israel?  You are sounding like a serious Israeli shill.

They come to TruthDigg all the time.

Ian,

You should look up the word irony before using big words you don’t understand.

1. Using white phospohorus IS illegal against civlian targets, which are the very circumstances under which ISrale used it.  There is ample evidence of this assertion.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/03/25/israel-white-phosphorus-use-evidence-war-crimes

2. Israel did bombed a UN school.

U.N.: No Hamas Fighters in Bombed Gaza School
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html

Israeli shelling kills dozens at UN school in Gaza
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-death-un

hello. Israel is being persecuted by the U.N., like i am being persecuted by bulimia. i too believe this conflict is unresolvable, and Israel should exodus to western Texas and eastern New Mexico: and rebuild its state there; and allow Jewrusalem to be an international city, that they would be welcome to visit. we could keep our ever increasing welfare payments to them here, in the United States, and they could suffer here; alike their bretherin. civilian casualties are inevitable against dishonorable cowardly foes.

Israel seems to fit the definition of a terrorist State yet the United States continues to support it with military and civilian aid.  Israelis are easy to dislike and we Americans are not far removed.