samosamo, May 19 at 6:23 pm #

I think it obvious when you read Louise’s comment in the second paragraph about pelosi’s being a concerned member of the house electorate and that is what I based my comment on trying to show that once the woman got that seat of power of the speaker of the house, the first thing she did after taking a deep breath and arranging her desk was to my mind jump on the republican war wagon and if you think pelosi in NOT a blue dog, please explain ‘impeachment is off the table’ where by she gave her support of the then w & dick administration.
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First I wish to congratulate you on wresting the trophy for longest run-on sentence away from me!

I think that one might see the public statements of Pelosi, or Reid for that matter, in another light. I remember Nancy as a firebrand liberal in democratic politics in fact. She didnt run for elective office until Sala Burton, ill with cancer, tapped her as a successor to her and her husband Phillip Burton’s legacy.

Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi holds humanitarian stances in many areas, including embryonic stem cell research, pro-choice views, minimum wage, Social Security, gay rights and public health policies.

In 2002, Nancy Pelosi voted against the Iraq War, and remains a vocal critic of the US occupation of Iraq. In late 2005, Pelosi announced her support of Rep. John Murtha’s controversial plan for US troops to immediately withdraw from Iraq.

She won her first election running as an environmentalist and champion of AIDS prevention.

She didn’t run for elected office until she was 47 years of age, but had been very influencial in California Democratic circles for a longish time.

I think that , once assuming the Speakers position she was obligated to preach the Democratic Party line rather than her own preferences, a feeble seeming excuse perhaps but one I believe to be true. Especially when one is familiar with all the liberal causes she has championed prior to her ascendancy.

Thus one might note two important things here, one is that the Democratic Party line sucks of course, and two, the attempts by the GOP to deflect away from the need to prosecute many within the Bush/Cheney White House seems effective, too damn effective!

“Some time back I read an article explaining the reason the dems have trouble with power is they let the repubs control the conversation. - And here we are trapped in a time-warp watching it happen again. How tiresome.”

Only this time we have them out in full force bending reality to dominate the internet!

samosamo,

Thank’s for PROVING my point!

By starfish, May 19 at 10:42 am

I don’t know why I should once again explain myself.

I think it obvious when you read Louise’s comment in the second paragraph about pelosi’s being a concerned member of the house electorate and that is what I based my comment on trying to show that once the woman got that seat of power of the speaker of the house, the first thing she did after taking a deep breath and arranging her desk was to my mind jump on the republican war wagon and if you think pelosi in NOT a blue dog, please explain ‘impeachment is off the table’ where by she gave her support of the then w & dick administration.

And so how much after that point did she speak out or vote against anything that had to do with the continuance of the illegal Iraqi war, be it torture, funding, surges, anything? As a matter of fact how many on the dem side started voting against anything? How can you not look at what the whole cabal of the house of representatives and senate and see just one great big group of 535 jerks fucking this country in the american croporate name?(maybe a couple of dozen or so worthy of their elected seats)

You may be looking at ‘torture’ as the worse thing about this illegal war in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and it might just be the best way to prosecute and punish those responsible but the worse really are those of the large morjority of people that we elect and re-elect to those hollowed and I mean HOLLOWED halls of congress and the white house and those justices that are appointed and picked by the former 2 branches.

By Louise, May 19 at 9:25 am

I remember pre-2006 that a woman named pelosi would become speaker of the house if the democrats somehow managed to become the majority and it would just piss the repub to no end and now it seems like seconds that those 5 fateful words came spewing out of her mouth:‘impeachment is off the table’.

After that is was touch and go from which I discerned that she was’t doing much as speaker, probably because the repubs could still out vote her in the senate or some sort of way, oh, no veto power and then after the presidential election to the $700,000,000,000.00 bailout and hearing her lamblasting everyone about not making the taxpayers liable for paying for it and the need for transparency, oversight, blah,blah,blah and when it passed a week later I found out she voted for it for the second time, that is just about how fast it was for me to decide she doesn’t have the best interest of the people in mind with the conservative owned msm lending more than a helping hand of which I hear no noises at all from our congress and nothing from our president about breaking up this conservative media monopoly which is breaking antitrust laws right and left if they are sill on the books.

When it comes down to it, I find or see very few friends of the people in congress because elections are over and obama is now shown he is not much different from any other president that talks the talks but won’t walk the walk.

At least mccain didn’t win, whoopee.

Some time back I read an article explaining the reason the dems have trouble with power is they let the repubs control the conversation. Apologies to whoever wrote that article, I cant remember, but I do remember my thinking at the time how much sense that made. And here we are trapped in a time-warp watching it happen again. How tiresome.

Shall I bother pointing out Pelosi was one of the FEW who loudly spoke out against Bush’s attack on Iraq, who voted AGAINST his aggressive and pointless war? Shall I point out Pelosi repeatedly tried to push through legislation demanding a time-line for withdrawal from Iraq, only to have every effort fought, blocked or vetoed by a repub controlled Senate and a hell-bent to destruction repub pres? Shall I even bother?

Of course not. Selective memory is the illness. Bashing is the game. Two steps forward and three steps back are the rules. We should all be proud at how effectively we play the game. How well deserved is our prize. Because if we win following those rules, we always lose. In fact eventually we find, we cant even remember exactly what we played for. What was the point anyway? What is the point?

So once again we find ourselves fighting to prove our point, whatever that is. And while the crimes of the Bush administration go unpunished, we fail to notice how effectively Cheney, the media and all those “me too” repubs have changed the subject. How completely they now control the conversation.

Frankly my dears, I don’t give a damn what Pelosi knew or didn’t know. I care a great deal more that through the boring repetition of what most of us already know ... the GOP apologists have managed to spin Bush into some kind of innocent observer, and that’s the real political goal in all of this insanity. If the repubs can manage to make us forget the Bush guilt and horror, then amazingly convince us he like us, was a victim, then suddenly they will gain credibility where they actually have none! Does anyone out there really believe the repubs care one iota about who knew what when? Well if you do, obviously you’re not paying attention! You are ripe for the sound-bite. Ready to re-swallow the control and not in any way deserving of the chance to get rid of it, once and for all!

So you will watch the inevitable outcome of seeing the repubs regain control of the conversation. Jumping in at every opportunity to amplify their insanity, and wonder why “politics” are corrupt and nothing ever changes. Pick a number, get in line and follow the repubs over the cliff ... again ...

LOL… I’m seriously curious…  What kinds of threats to the US Constitution would require members of the sewar board to take oaths to defend it? 

I’m not poking fun, but the line did make me laugh… It’s not something anyone would expect of a member of a sewar board. 

Who knew?

Big B- your experience on the sewer board has stood you in good stead for inspecting the Dem-Gop behavior in the coming period.  It makes me proud to be a semi-Appilacian.

Even if Pelosi’s story is true, it hardly exonerates her. She’s saying that the CIA told her “We believe we have a perfect legal right to torture people”, and that in response to this astonishing claim, she made no complaint.

First, who cares what Panetta has to say about anything? He is Clintonian scum of the highest order.

Second, liberals should not want Nancy gutted and field dressed just because Newt doesn’t like her. She should be shot out of cannon on her own merits, and those are that she is a back stabbing, cadillac liberal bitch who would sell her children for medical experiments if it pleased her wealthy benefactors.

And last, any one in congress who knew that torture was happening on their watch, and did nothing to stop it, should be arrested and tried for high treason, for they have violated their oath of office. That also includes any military or intelligence officer that turned a blind eye to these horrific transgressions. Their duty is to the Constitution of the United States and the people it represents. Remember, every public official takes an oath to uphold that document(I even did to serve on a local sewer board). If we do not hold them to that oath, then the Constitution is not worth the paper it is printed on.

TEAM OBAMA

@ TheRealFish, May 17 at 7:29 am #
> Where I part company with PSmith is in this one small point: There is no “first we fix the economy, then we can pursue the crimes against humanity.” That’s a statement of political convenience and acting on that concept politicizes the process of justice.

> They can be pursued at the same time because of a couple of simple principles:

Absolutely. I didn’t mean to imply ‘Today we do the economy and in two years the war crimes’.

Obama’s administration first took steps to stabilize the economy and now, a hundred and ten days into his administration, there is a furious back and forth tennis rally of stories, leaks, statements, and debate on torture. Wonderful. ‘Well played, Sir’ - Team Obama.

Like many San Franciscans I do not like Nancy Pelosi; I consider her part of the John Burton real estate cartel which has ruined this city. Even so, it’s bizarre that the Reich focuses on her role, which could only be complicit at worst. TORTURE AND ITS PROPONENTS/PERPETRATORS ARE THE REAL ISSUE—INCLUDING BUSH, CHENEY, RUMSFELD, YOO, GONZALES.

Sorry for shouting but the spin got in the way.

Starfish pretty much nailed it—how would Panetta know? Geez, I used to have a high opinion of this man but maybe the system got to him too. For those outside the Bay Area, neither Pelosi nor Panetta are known as liars.

Nancy will weather this storm ONLY IF she and Obama & other Dems decide to directly confront the issue of torture. Who did what to whom when and under whose authority? We really do need to know for the survival of this government, and it isn’t “backward-looking” to uphold the rule of law, Mr. President.

BTW, are Gangrape and Limpburger lovers? Anyone know? I volunteer to waterboard the both of them and we can discover whether the technique works. Anyone want to take on Nancy? Deprive her of botox? Make her eat an adequate & balanced diet? 

Oh sorry, I forgot about the Geneva Convention. Nix that last paragraph.

Leon Panetta does not claim that the CIA records regarding Nancy Pelosi are true.  His letter states that “n the end, you and the Committee will have to determine whether this information is an accurate summary of what actually happened.”