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Stuck Between a Turk and an Armenian, So to SpeakPosted on Apr 26, 2009
President Obama over the weekend commemorated the 1915 murder of over a million Armenians without using the word genocide, a term he had used during the presidential campaign in speaking of the slaughter. The word from the lips of the U.S. president would have angered Turkey at a time when relations between Washington and Ankara are going so well. In the end, Obama’s rhetorical gifts were not enough to keep outraged Armenian-Americans from taking to the streets. Turkey is one of the United States’ few allies in the Muslim world, and post-9/11 relations, although now better than earlier, are just beginning to thaw. In the weekend statement Obama went out of his way to avoid trouble. He said he still believed in what he said as a candidate when he promised to press the issue of the 1915 genocide by the Turks. The statement used the Armenian Meds Yeghern (the Atrocity), and Obama called the mass murder “one of the great atrocities of the 20th century.” What he didn’t do is use the word genocide, which is what one usually calls an attempt to wipe out a people.
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By Andrew, April 29 at 5:36 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Armenian genocide has been the subject of numerous studies, all of which concluded with the verdict: Turkey committed Genocide.
Here are few recent studies:
In 1985, the United Nations Sub-commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities recognized the Armenian Genocide in an official report.
In 2003, the International Center for Transitional Justice found that the events of 1915 include “all of the elements of the crime of genocide as defined in the 1948 U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.”
On 2006, The International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) unanimously affirmed the Armenian genocide.
The Armenian genocide has been officially recognized by the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly, the Parliament of Europe, and many European countries, including France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Nettherlands, Poland, Sweeden, Slovakia, Austria, Belguim, Cyprus, Lithuania, and the Vatican.
The Armenian genocide has been recognized by Armenia, Russia, Lebanon, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Australia and 43 U.S. states and scores of organizations worldwide that officially recognize the Armenian Genocide.
Report thisBy Drew, April 29 at 1:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Andrew, you are right, ” the Greeks revolted, the Romanians revolted, the Bulgarians revolted, the Serbs revolted, the Croats revolted, the Arabs” etc.. against the Ottoman Empire.
BUT you are omitting that the British, French, Italian, and Russian Empires made it possible. (Mainly due to Oil, discovered by Brits.)
Would you argue that the 600-year treatment of Ottoman colonies were MORE or LESS brutal or inhumane compared to the treatment of British colonies, like in India or any French peoples in Africa?
After living with the Ottomans for centuries, Greek, Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats, Arabs, still speak their own language and practice their own religion. How about British, French colonies? Do you know how they assimilated their peoples?
Anyways, so how does the millions of deaths in crumbling of Ottoman Empire compare to Nazi treatment of Jews? Circumstances, treatment and records are very very different.
Also, when will this crazy pressure on US politicians going to end about this word ‘genocide’? Isnt their time more valuable, they are not Historians, why should they have to be the judge of history?
If anyone should decide, it should be an international court of justice, with panels of historians to do research. Why make the congressman from Ohio to sweat over making a correct historical decision?
I hope, I am not too primitive anymore.
Report thisBy Andrew, April 28 at 11:04 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Drew, your writing is very primitive and simple.
The Ottoman Empire brutally ruled over a dozen nations. Naturally after centuries of abuse, brutal treatment and massacres of nationalities within the Ottoman Empire, the Greeks revolted, the Romanians revolted, the Bulgarians revolted, the Serbs revolted, the Croats revolted, the Arabs in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Palestine all revolted against the Ottoman Empire. Even the Young Turks revolted against the Ottoman Empire. The Armenians also revolted and rightly so. The Armenians even supported the Young Turks (hoping for equality and justice) but the Turks responded with whole sale massacres in 1909 and continued with the genocide from 1915-23.
Turks in the Russian Empire revolted and sided with the Ottoman Empire.
Armenians in the Russian Empire were loyal to that Empire; and Armenians in the Ottoman Empire were in large numbers enlisted in the Ottoman Army Empire. They were disarmed and shot.
Report thisBy Drew, April 28 at 12:47 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Let’s for one moment, put ourselves in the shoes of the Ottoman Empire, which is blamed to have committed a genocide. (During the WWI era)
After 600+ years of being a super power, the Ottoman Empire comes under attack by British, French, Italian, Greeks, Russians, Armenians and Arabs. As a result of decades long struggle, the once mighty Empire crumbles down to its knees and have to give up A MAJORITY of its lands.
In the light of this, Armenians, inspired by French and Russians, decide to back-stab their own Empire. Instead of enlisting and fighting for the Ottoman armies, they choose to fight for Russian armies and form their gangs in each city to revolt.
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Turks were killed. At the time, NOBODY thought that the Ottoman Turks would ever become a strong country like Turkey again. So Armenians chose the wrong side.
Now, HOW does this compare to a systematic and purposeful killing of someone due to their race? The same race (Armenians) lived happily within the same Empire for 600-700 years.
THIS IS WHY TURKS ARE DEBATING THE NAME ‘GENOCIDE’.
You can run someone over with your car, is that the same thing as murdering someone purposefully and knowingly because you hate their race?
Report thisBy photoshock, April 28 at 9:38 am #
The fact that President Obama could not use the word ‘Genocide’ when it came to the 1915-1923 Armenian Genocide is absolutely the best example of the ‘double-speak’ that is talked about in George Orwell’s book, 1984.
Report thisWar is peace, slavery is freedom, and on and on. The ideal candidate for president can double-speak with the best of them, and Barack Obama, is the best at not saying what he means and meaning what he says.
His whole political platform, the one expressed during the campaign, is one of double and triple speak, no one really knows what he was talking about and the party platform for President Obama, was nothing more than a statement of an idea that would be initiated during his presidency.
Please be aware, President Obama, cannot say what he really means because his handlers, will not allow him
to truly express the ideals that he espouses and the principles behind his presidency.
By Berge Jololian, April 28 at 7:58 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Did then the Armenian genocide end in 1918 or 1923?
“When Does Genocide End”?
The expected or, perhaps better, generic answer to the question is “when the killing stops.”
The Holocaust can be said to have ended with the termination of World War II, or the liberation of the extermination camps, or perhaps the Nuremberg Trials. It is an historical fact, universally accepted, even by the perpetrator state.
Did then the Armenian genocide end in 1918 or 1923? No, unfortunately it did not, for two major reasons:
1) The perpetrators refuse to acknowledge the Genocide, and 2) successive governments of Turkey have continued a genocidal process toward its current and former Armenian citizenry through a) discriminatory policies, b) what one might call a culture genocide, that is, the neglect, even willful destruction, of Armenian cultural monuments, and c) an official government policy of denying the historical existence of an Armenian presence in what used to be called the Armenian Plateau or eastern Asia Minor.
The refusal to acknowledge the genocide, indeed, to vigorously deny it, has been a tenet of every Turkish government since the proclamation of the republic in 1923.
The last phase of genocide is denial. So then “When does Genocide end”? Only when denial ceases.
Armenian genocide 1915-2009
Report thisBy Date game, April 27 at 10:45 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Armenian lobbies always (try to) convince locals (Americans, French, Canadians, etc) using the events of 1915. However, when there is a document to be signed they change the dates to 1915-23 at the last minute. The difference between 1915 and 1923? 1923 would help Armenian lobbies to grab land from Turkey. Recognize the genocide all you want but do not be fooled by the ‘date game’
Report thisBy jim Jackson, April 27 at 9:12 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Here you have Armenians who lived in their homeland since the beginning of time, yes beginning of time. Go look any ancient map in any museum and you will see the words Armenia where is now eastern Turkey. Turks only come to the area from Central Asia and Mongolia in 11-13th century.
Report thisBecause of the Armenian Genocide 2/3 of the Armenian people were wiped our, their whole rich culture, with magnificent churches have been erased. This happened in the modern time, from 1915-1923. At that time all major newspapers (including NY times) did document the events. But b/c of regional politics they were soft on Turkey, just like they are now.
By Steve Martin, April 27 at 9:10 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Polish Jew lawyer Raphael Limpkin who came up with the term Genocide had based his findings, study on Armenian Genocide. He was young scholar in Germany before the WWII and has extensively researched that topic. There is a well document late 1940s or early 1950s interview conducted by ABC television where he extensively speaks about his work and specifies that he came up with the word Genocide based on the brutal and systematic atrocities committed by Turks on Armenians.
Report thisBy afif elias, April 27 at 9:06 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I think we should stand truth and let Turkey knows that what they did is wrong against the Aremanian people. It is geocide plane and simle. We always saying that there are friend and so then friends what do wrong. We have garbage to avoid the true facts about what did was wrong and should obligate to the armenian for the atrocity.
Report thisBy Berge Jololian, April 27 at 12:45 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
It is astonishing to read that President Obama did not use the word genocide to describe the Armenian experience 1915-23, when the word “genocide” was coined by Raphael Lemkin to specifically describe the barbarity that befell the Armenians at the hands of the Turks.
Raphael Lemkin, a lawyer of Polish-Jewish descent and a holocaust survivor, coined the word “genocide” to properly characterize the slaughter of the Armenians, explaining that the Turks had intent to annihilate.
Prior to the use of the word “genocide”, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and other world leaders described the events as the Armenian holocaust.
Imagine if back in the days of West Germany the US president refrained from using the word Holocaust not wanting to offend or sour relations with a strategic NATO ally, thus describe the events of WWII as “ha Shoha”.
Report thisBy Mata, April 26 at 7:05 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Nice two-step political shuffle, Barack!
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