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Folktruther

Thanks for that. I appreciate your comments - they bring me back to Earth!

My blogsite is about to undergo a big update. Within the next month (there, I’ve set a deadline so I will have to get on with it!) I want to complete two essays to follow on from “Did the Brits really screw the pooch?” which deals with the period leading up the the British Mandate.

The next will deal with the Mandate and its culmination in the 1948 War, some of which I have offered here on Truthdig as rebuttals to those who cite the mainstream (Hasbara) view. A great deal of information has become available since we passed the 50 year mark - documents that have been released to historians, so a much clearer picture has emerged.

I come from a small country that had a Colonial past. In some ways it is rather unique in that hostilities between the indigenous people and the colonists ended in Treaty, not Conquest. Aspects of the New Zealand model have been adopted by Canada and Australia and have been studied by Indigenous Rights people both from the Native American Councils and the American Government.

I find it most productive to focus on the land issue because it cuts through the bullshit quickest with Westerners. When your average Joe learns that 92% of the land Sderot stands on is owned by inmates of Gaza and their title is acknowledged by the U.N., his attitude to resistance, rockets etc. changes drastically.
It is also the key to understanding why Hamas cannot “recognise” Israel as a Jewish State.

Hamas themselves emphasize this.

I think the Western world has understood by now that Hamas will never recognise Israel. How can I recognise the one who occupies my land? It is illogical that it is demanded of Hamas to recognise Israel. I am the victim. I am the man who is not free. I am the man living in the Diaspora away from my land. Israel has got a kind of a nation that was imposed as a “fait accompli” by the United Nations. We don’t have a nation. More than half of the Palestinian people are living in the Diaspora, mostly in camps and they can’t go home. Because of Israel they can’t go home and we should recognise Israel? Who is actually in the wrong, us or Israel?” -Khalid Mish’al.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4192

2/2

As one who has been moved from outright support for Israel to my present stance simply by studying the History, I can attest that there are episodes and acts that, from a spiritual or moral standpoint, are quite simply appalling. Try debating them with Dershowitz however and he will tie you up in knots of moral relativism in one millionth of the time it took him to get OJ off.
The land issue is another matter.
Some are a little frightened of it because of the nature of the pre-mandate system of land tenure. They need not be, there are ample precedents in Western Law upholding Customary Title but even these are not necessary. The Ottomans had already enacted law to protect tenants rights (which were ignored by the Zionist purchasers). This in itself contains enough material for a couple of essays so sorry if it sounds complicated.

Just for fun, here is something from Dr Arthur Ruppin (1876-1943).

Ruppin became the Zionist land agent. He helped to get a loan for Ahuzat Bayit, later Tel Aviv, and acquired land on the Carmel, in Afula, in the Jezreel Valley,  and in Jerusalem. Ruppin was instrumental in shaping the nature of Jewish settlement in Palestine and in changing the paradigm of settlement from those of plantation owners and poor laborers to the Kibbutz collective and cooperative Moshavim that became the backbone of the state-in-the-making.

It is from:
Buying the Emek, published in The New Palestine, New York, May, 1929

“The acquisition of the Emek Yizael for Jewish colonization has been the object of Jewish efforts for many years. It was natural that this region, the largest fertile plain of Palestine, should have aroused the interest of the Jewish colonization societies at the very beginning.
..... there have been acquired, since 1910, approximately 225,000 dunams in the Emek Yizrael and about 65,000 dunams in the Plain of Acco—a total of 290,000 dunams, purchased at the price of £970,000.

It has often been asked why the Zionist Organization has chosen the Emek for settlement purposes, and has neglected the coastal plain, which is suitable for plantations of all sorts and for orange groves in particular. This question can best be answered by pointing out that the coastal plain has not been neglected at all. Since 1910 the Palestine Land Development Company alone has acquired 70,000 dunam in the coastal plain between Gaza and Haifa; and when we count the plain of Acco the total mounts to 135,000 dunams.
....During the war, and for two years after, land purchases were prohibited by law. It was only after the establishment of the civilian government under Herbert Samuel, in 1920, that they were permitted again. Hankin immediately grasped the opportunity to conclude a provisional agreement for 70,000 dunam. Half of this land (Nahalal, Djindjar and Nasra) was not irrigated, and cost £3 per dunam, while the other half (Nuris) was partly irrigated, and therefore sold at the higher price of six and a half pounds sterling.

So much for turning the desert into productive land!!!
http://www.zionismontheweb.org/Rupin1925.htm

brewerstoupe—Fadel is essentially right.  It is not a real estate dispute but a stuggle about justice and humanity.  Property rights are subsidary to human rights and people can more easily understand the struggle and identify with the Palestiians if stated in moral and spiritual terms than in property terms.

that is why Eileen Fleming is so inspiring, as I hope she is.  She is applying religious views to sanctify the military-political struggle of people.  this does not require that one beieve int he traditional delusions and superstitions of religion.

I still have not gone thoroughly through your website to understand the pre-WW2 details of the Zionist founding of Israel, which I firmly intend to do.  I was completely ignorant of it and that is the worst problem of ignorance; one doesn’t know what one is ignorant of.  I was shocked to learn that Ben Gurion believed in ethnic cleansing.

That is the primary crux in the Israeli-Palestinian struggle- not real estate but ethnic cleansing.

Easy now Fadel. MacDonald is on your side. It is the land and the basic human rights of those who own it that informs us as to the injustice that has been perpetrated against the Palestinian people.

Those who try to confuse by conjuring other issues such as religion, right of conquest, historical rights and historical enmities are the real problem, for their intent is to draw attention away from the Nakbah.

You may have other grievances (goodness knows there are plenty to choose from arising out of this conflict) but your average Westerner is capable of understanding the Land issue
The problem is he doesn’t know about it.

MacDonald’s statement was influential in turning me from tacit support for what I thought the Israel project was about to making deeper inquiry. That is why I recommend it to others.

Adding to Brewers Troupe’s post, in 2004 the International Court of Justice did not find it to be a complicated issue rendering their advisory opinion on the legal consequences of the construction of a wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

It is a travesty that the world did not stand in support of the ICJ decisions. How is Israel and other States not held accountable in support of Israel’s inhumane acts and act of war crimes?  How is the oppressed blamed for the oppressor(s) crimes?  The term war is not legitimate to describe the recent acts of Israel, supported by the U.S. war machine; it is nothing short of a premeditated massacre instilling fear in the Palestinian people. Terrorist acts have been taking place before our very eyes committed by Israel and enabled by the U.S.A.

Consider reading the International Court of Justice’s website and its advisory opinion on the legal consequences of the construction of a wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory:

A. Construction of the wall by Israel, the occupying Power, in Occupied Palestinian Territory; including in and around East Jerusalem…are contrary to international law. (In favor: 14 Against: 1*)
B. Israel is under an obligation to terminate its breaches of international law… (In favor: 14 Against: 1*)
C. Israel is under an obligation to make reparations for all damages caused by the construction of the wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory; including in and around East Jerusalem…(In favor: 14   Against:  1*)
D. All States are under an obligation not to recognize the construction of the wall and not to render and or assistance in maintaining the situation created by such construction…(In favor: 13   Against 2)
E. The United Nations, and especially the General Assembly and the Security Council, should consider what further action is required to bring to an end the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall…(In favor: 14 - Against: 1*)

(*U.S.A. states he agrees with much that has been put forth and is not dissenting, but rather is making a declaration.)

It is illegal to move settlers into occupied territories; therefore, the settlements are illegal.  (Vote: 15 – 0) 

It is against international law to acquire territory during war as Israel claims to have acquired in 1967.

The ICJ, the UN, and other world governing bodies are higher authorities than a colonial power (Britain) that imposed its will upon the indigenous people of the land for its own self-serving purposes claiming legitimacy through citing the Balfour Declaration and the Partition resolution

It may be asked how do we move the illegal settlers out of the land that they are illegally occupying? Let us remember that a million settlers in Algeria left when the Algerians overthrew colonial rule. 

Israeli settlers are paid to move on to illegal acquired land; it can be negotiated to move them off.

A final thought:  Is it such a crazy idea to propose that everyone in every nation that has been opposing Israel’s actions from Turkey to the U.S.A. to Australia and every other land in mass go to the Occupied Territories of Palestine and tear wall down in the name of ICJ and UN rulings!  I am in full support of tearing that damn wall down abiding by the ICJ’s decisions.  Too much Palestinian blood has been spent due to our ignorance in allowing such travesties to take place against a people who are continually being raped of their land.

P.S. It is unjust to cherry pick rulings made by world governing entities.

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=4&k=5a&PHPSESSID=0e231a356de291398052d8bc3e0ce578&PHPSESSID=0e231a356de291398052d8bc3e0ce578&PHPSESSID=0e231a356de291398052d8bc3e0ce578&case=131&code=mwp&p3=5&PHPSESSID=0e231a356de291398052d8bc3e0ce578

“It’s just a classic ethnic conflict about who owns this piece of land.”

Niel McDonald
News Middle East Bureau Chief
Canadian Broadcasting Company
===============================
Sorry Niel McDonald! You must be stupid to say this!
It’s a conflict for justice and human rights. It’s a struggle of the aggrieved victim trying to right the wrong!

Stupid, superficial people like you, Niel McDonald are part of the problem because of you ignorance!

“It’s just a classic ethnic conflict about who owns this piece of land.”

Niel McDonald
News Middle East Bureau Chief
Canadian Broadcasting Company

Actually, the world agrees on who owns the occupied territories:  the Palestinians.

The formation of the state of Israel has always been greatly confusing to me. Throughout history, there has always been attempted genocides and ethnic-cleansing (as well as successful genocides). Why, then, does one group of people deserve their own country? because they are the self-proclaimed god’s ‘chosen people?’ or could it be more political than that? I’m thinking the latter (thank you for that last post brewerstroupe).

I’ve read the history (though how much of americanized ‘history’ can we believe?) I mean, people across this country believe that Pearl Harbor was a ‘surprise,’ that J.F.K. was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, that Osama bin Laden is still at large (and solely responsible for September 11th and the launch of the ‘war on terror’) and on, and on, and on.

With all the blockades, suspension of aid, and continuing aerial attacks on civilians, I find it absolutely mind-boggling that a majority of Americans continue to support such atrocities. And what is the justification? Self-defense from homemade rockets…a sign of protest?

There will never be a ‘cease-fire’ as long as hard-core zionism and american support continue to blind Israel from reason and compassion. If only we could LEARN FROM HISTORY.

The slaughter in Palestine is primarily caused by religious beliefs.

This statement illustrates the huge disconnect between reality and the public perception.

This conflict has nothing to do with religion:

“Everyone talks like it’s complex and difficult to understand. That’s a cop-out for not wanting to accept reality. It’s just a classic ethnic conflict about who owns this piece of land. It’s as simple as that.”
Niel McDonald (News Middle East Bureau Chief, Canadian Broadcasting Company)

The core dispute is simply this. Around 80% of the land upon which the Sate of Israel stands is owned by Palestinians. This claim is supported by U.N. Resolution 194 which is re-stated by them every year.

In 60 years, Israel has done nothing to address this claim - not one single solitary statement even acknowledging such a claim exists except the lie that the Palestinians “abandoned” their land.

Despite the fact that this lie is unsupported by evidence and is thoroughly debunked by Israeli Historians, it really makes no difference. The right of return or compensation as noted in U.N. Resolution 194 and the Declaration of Human Rights remains valid whatever circumstances caused the exodus.

Nearly one million Palestinians were terrorized off their land and made refugees in late 1947 and 1948. Most were expelled from their villages before Israel was declared a State and the Arab League moved to stabilize the area. These facts are not in dispute. To ascribe a religious motive to this conflict is either mischievous or simply ignorant.

Morris: (My).. book is a double-edged sword. It is based on many documents that were not available to me when I wrote the original book, most of them from the Israel Defense Forces Archives. What the new material shows is that there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves.

http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=LEN20070207&articleId=4715

Every colonial enterprise in History has left a legacy of conflict until the residual claims to ownership of the territory is settled. Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other States have Land Courts dedicated to hearing such Historic disputes. Until Israel follows these well established prodedures, this conflict will be on-going.

One simple fact should disprove the “religious war” thesis. Up until the 1920s when the Zionist land-grab began, there were ten Palestinians for every single Jew living in the Holy Land. These Jews lived in security despite the overwhelming number of non-Jews surrounding them.

In light of current events, the entire Middle East situation it is becoming clearer that Israel is in a no win situation with Hizbollah North and Hamas South.  Israel and the USA are up against a wall;  and Iran and Syria are sitting back and enjoying it all.

Like Voltaire’s Pangloss, being eternally hopeful——there will be peace or something close to that in the Middle East.  However, it will come at a tremendous price to Israel and the United States will be the one to force the pen into the hand of Israel.

Things are so messed up in the Middle East that the western world will seek a away out.  The Saudi Initiative is on the table and will be pursued because it offers a way out that looks good in print.

Yes, Israel will move back to the 1967 borders.  The settlers in the West Bank will have the option of becoming Palestinian citizens or migrating back to Israel——the latter is more than likely.  The ROR is negotiable and much money will change hands and don’t be surprised if Uncle Sam makes a considerable donation!

The big question is will the Palestinians be satisfied or will splinter groups continue the war of attrition?

P. T. may have a point about Abbas.  Buried in the middle of the BBC article is the observation that Hamas is sending a delegation to Cairo.  That is followed that the observation that Abbas will avoid talking with them the same way that Israel is doing.

Ex-president Abbas (his term has expired) is a collaborator.  He is on Israel’s side.

Since his new appointment, George Mitchell has yet to mention the settlements.  He is a joke.

HAMAS

Israel does not recognize
The Hamas government in Gaza –
But holds it responsible
For the attacks from there.

Israel does not recognize
The Hamas government in Gaza –
But demands that it
Guarantee the cease-fire there.

That is ridiculous. That is hopeless.
We must talk with Hamas.
The enemy in war is also
The partner in the cease-fire.

Ad published in Haaretz, January 30, 2009

Jerry Levin, Author and a former CNN Mid East Bureau Chief in Lebanon, was a full time volunteer with Christian Peacemaker Teams in Hebron, when I first met him.

After Jerry showed me around town, I told Jerry that Hebron felt like hell.

Jerry replied, “You haven’t seen anything until you see Gaza.”

Jerry said that in June 2005.

On January 20, 2009, Jerry delivered the following statement Calling for Regime Change in Israel Palestine:

Tough Love and Brutal Truth:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1177&Itemid=214