as entertainment some of us are going to mall. it is a easy way to spend some time and to see a lot of things. i always find what i need there, from food, cloths and drink. i also find Global Visas when i am short of money.

KDelphi:

“Dr. Knowitall—Yes. Let’s close all universities and hopspitals, and turn them into malls! After all, they exist in moral equivalency, right?”

You are taking an unnecessarily extremist position here.  It is clearl that DKIA was NOT suggesting a “moral equivalency.”  He was merely pointing out - correctly - that it is fallacious to assume that just because a building is used for a “better” purpose does not mean it will be free of capitalist, corruptive or other influence, including on-site.

Peace.

Dr. Knowitall—Yes. Let’s close all universities and hopspitals, and turn them into malls! After all, they exist in moral equivalency , right?

As if universities and hospitals don’t consume.

KDelphi, did you notice that the post you enjoyed so much was over a year old?  Put another way, it was written at a time when any talk of economic instability would have been dismissed as extremist alarmism.  A year ago I still believed in the co-dependency of producers and consumers.  I still do, but I believe that the corporate world is no longer interested in being producers.  Rather, my more recent thoughts have turned to what can only be called the War Against the Poor:

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2008/10/attention-has-now-shifted-to-real.html

This is the view that, in a zero-sum game, all that really matters is having all the marbles, the corollary of which is that the Poor should be deprived of ANY of those marbles, since any resource potentially carries some level of power.  The post cited above was written about a year after the one you read, and I have now shifted my attention to another weakness:  Once you have all those marbles, you still have to manage them;  and those waging war against the poor are not necessarily giving any thought to managing their “spoils of war.”  You may be amused by the historical analogy I pose for this situation and may take satisfaction that I pretty much share the conclusion of your Comment!

Stephen—I agree with much of the post on your blog, but, it sounds as though you are calling for a type of co-dependency, between “consumers” and corporations. (They need us/we need them). You rightly point out that it is we , ourselves, who have allowed the enslavement of ourselves , by big corp interets. But, in the end, i say, we will lose. The coporate styructure cares nothing for anything living. Some people are quite good at it. But, if they are still the suppli(ers), they can win every time. It is the principle the uS uses in applying “sanctions”. Throw in a good dose of terror, fear of watching your loved ones go cold, hungry, etc, and, most will end up “their most obedient servant”. They, as multi-nationals, can take their services and goods elsewhere. (Well, they, for the most part, have)

The resources were never theirs to begin with. The citizens (as consumers) need to take them back.We will probably not have a leader like Chavez to help us—but, if we do not take back the resources, means of procduciton, etc, we will become Third World. The relationship of consumer to corp is not give and take. It is take and take. Here’s enough crumb to keep you stringing along.

As more and more people have nothing left to “fight” for (as you refer to in retirement funds, etc)), as more feel that they were lied to and, cheated into a system that benefits their masters , much more than thenselves; that is when we have a chance for real change in govt.

I like the way in which many of these Comments have shifted attention from an authoritarian action against the construction of one mall in a highly congested area of Caracas to the more general issue of the proliferation of malls, particularly since this proliferation is on a global scale.  Whatever the religious values of the host country may be, a mall is fundamentally (adverb chosen deliberately) a “high temple” of capitalism, from which it follows that the rituals practices within that temple are those of consumerism.  From this point of view, I found it interesting that the primary analysis of holiday shopping (which, through a well-placed pun, we may regard as the “holiest” of those rituals) comes from SpendingPulse, which is the retail data service of MasterCard Advisors:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4BO1GQ20081227

Needless to say, MasterCard is interested in this analysis not so much for their revenue from transaction fees as for their revenue from interest on debt.  Chávez may subscribe to socialism grounded in atheism, but one way to view his action is through the Gospels.  However, rather than expel the (MasterCard) moneylenders from the temple, he chose to defy the building of the temple itself!  Then, again in the spirit of the Gospels, he proposed that the structure be repurposed for healing the sick!  My guess is that, if he has no other apostles, the Reverend Billy will be prepared to embrace his action as the sign of a Second Coming!

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/10/new-civil-war.html

Reverend Billy was one of the first to recognize consumerism as the addictive behavior it really is, which is why I think it is fair to view Chávez, for better or worse, as an agent of rehabilitation.

Viva Chavez! How ironic that, while Chavez is doing this, our lame duck is busy auctioning off our public parks!

When all else fails, just scream that you are “creating jobs”! Never mind that they will be crappy, minimum wage jobs. And, that someone could get a better job, if this werw a university or a teaching hospital. Just, everyone go into the service industry. Good little serfs.

Maani—What the hell do we need another gd MALL for?? Chavez does not claim to be running a coutry that will bend over backwards for PRIVATE (hail privitization!) enterprise.Why do you think he confiscated the natural resources? (What was left when Enron and the Chicago Skool were done)He is trying to buid a socialist country. I wish we had a president that cared about our public lands.

STOP “malling” ewverything!

“By socman, December 25 at 12:36 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

“Oh goodness! President Chaves even has the time to police his streets and provide code enforcement? Impressive!  What a Christmas gift to the Venezuelan Nation!!! You are truly a world leader, serving the needs of the general public, and helping the environment. The world should learn from you, Mr. intelligent president!, how to be a good leader, and an urban planner…”

Why in the world does a “mall in Venezuela” (or the lack thereof ) have you so riled?! I think thaT it is fake, and you are brainwashed.

For those that are decrying Chavez “power” in this—are you unaware of what the lame duck is doing right now, with lands owned by US?! We have a constitutional monarchy.(maani—I know that you dont want either one—but, to do nothing about the log in your eye, as you said—maybe we should get our own country in order, first)

We must stop building malls. We must stop building. Period.

ZombieNation:

“Besides, the financing may have had some Government funding, guarantees or tax-breaks, like we do here in the U.S., despite being called privately owned.”

It did not.  It was built entire with private money by Sambil, which operates a number of other, similar malls throughout the country.

Quinty:

“After all, he has abided by the results of nine or ten elections, even when one didn’t go his way.”

Actually, there were only a handful of elections and referendum votes, though you are correct that he abided by them…

...which, of course, has not stopped him from creating yet ANOTHER referendum ending presidential term limits, which will be voted on on 2/15.

As a general matter re the mall in question, Chavez was primarily concerned about “density” (it is in a very heavily populated area) than about his claimed notion of “socialism” v. “capitalism.”  After all, he has permitted Sambil to build at least half a dozen similar malls throughout the country.

In addition, even his supporters are a bit miffed at this particular off-the-cuff decision, not least because it will cost the government a huge sum to purchase the structure from Sambil, as well as the fact that Sambil was promising to create over 3,000 jobs - quite a bit more than a school, hospital or other facility would create.

Peace.

Chavez the dictator? That’s rich coming from a country that embargoes whole nations of people, just because they don’t like their leadership, whether elected or not.

Which effectivly STOPPED the new WAL-MART from gaining a foothold “down south”-And has ANY ONE NOTICED???Seems people living in those areas have MONEY….Could it be those G.M facilities that ABSCONDED to SOUTH AMERICA????

Maani -

I think that to really know what is going on there one would have to be Venezuelan: to see how Chavez has truly changed things. Though from this distance his behavior can appear heavy handed. Are such fiats (halting construction) permitted by Venezuelan law? The term “dictator,” which we bandy about here, seems inappropriate to me. After all, he has abided by the results of nine or ten elections, even when one didn’t go his way. And when considering his attitudes toward the US we should remember the US backed coup against his administration. What would we think if the tables had been turned?

No, I don’t think the large and nearly universal propaganda campaign against Chavez here in the US is founded upon his being a “dictator.” He has strayed off the range, listens to his own drummer, and has mocked US influence and power. He may end up a dictator, but up until now that his been his true “crime.”

Fadel:

“I’ll rather take a ‘dictator’ who goes around the country and see unhealthy trends and issue orders to correct them over a so-called democratically elected evil one, who cowardly sits in the dark corners of of the White House, plotting evil wars and imperial conquests based on lies and weapons of mass deception.”

So would I.  But those are the two “extremes.” There are middle grounds as well.  I generally support Chavez, but I believe this was overboard and uncalled for.

“I admit that everything is relative and things will always be in the eyes of the beholder. However, if you were silent in face of eight years of evil Bush, an international criminal, who “dictated” orders to start to wars half way around the world, over Chavez who “dictated” an order to halt the construction of a mall and use the structure for a university or a hospital, then I fee sorry for you! The immoral and criminal stand of Bush for eight year, with your consent or silence, is not the immoral equivalent of Chavez dictating the halt of a commercial mall to promote consumerism in a country that openly and formally adopts socialism as an economic system.”

I was not silent.  I was quite active and vocal.  But, again, I need not support EITHER a Bush-like criminal or the overly dictatorial fiats of a Chavez-like leader.

“Yet, despite my strong disagreement with you I wish you and your loved ones peace and a Merry Christmas on this Christmas season!”

Although I do not celebrate Christmas, I accept the spirit in which your wishes are given, and I return them to you and yours!

Peace.

By Maani, December 25 at 9:44 am #

“The answer is simple.  He is a dictator in the truest sense of the term: “I don’t like it, I don’t want it, so it will not be.” It doesn’t get any more obvious than this.”
=================
I’ll rather take a “dictator” who goes around the country and see unhealthy trends and issue orders to correct them over a so-called democratically elected evil one, who cowardly sits in the dark corners of of the White House, plotting evil wars and imperial conquests based on lies and weapons of mass deception.

I admit that everything is relative and things will always be in the eyes of the beholder. However, if you were silent in face of eight years of evil Bush, an international criminal, who “dictated” orders to start to wars half way around the world, over Chavez who “dictated” an order to halt the construction of a mall and use the structure for a university or a hospital, then I fee sorry for you! The immoral and criminal stand of Bush for eight year, with your consent or silence, is not the immoral equivalent of Chavez dictating the halt of a commercial mall to promote consumerism in a country that openly and formally adopts socialism as an economic system.

Yet, despite my strong disagreement with you I wish you and your loved ones peace and a Merry Christmas on this Christmas season!

Peace!

Mill said, “Why isn’t he building all the hospitals and universities he needs with all that oil money he has confiscated?  Ones designed for those important purposes?”

Quinty said: “So the president of Venezuela can “order” the cessation of a mall project simply by driving by, looking out the window, concluding on the spot he doesn’t like it, and ordering the mayor to halt construction? That sounds a little heavy handed, without much due process.”

These two comments sum it for me.  As Mill notes, Chavez’s government has oodles of oil revenues that could be used to build the universities, hospitals and other facilities that he seems to want.  So why isn’t HE doing it?  Indeed, as Quinty asks, What gives him the unilateral right to stop a private project that has obviously been going on for months, if not years (the building of malls takes time)?

The answer is simple.  He is a dictator in the truest sense of the term: “I don’t like it, I don’t want it, so it will not be.”  It doesn’t get any more obvious than this.

Peace.

The defeat of capitalism requires the fight against mere ego.  What is the best way to go about it?  Defeat the vaunted middle class? Recreate a middle class. A classless society. Defeat the rich.  Defeat the poor? 

What?  A transformation of society!

Good, I’m glad he did this; the mall would soon enough have had nothing to sell anyway since the ability to import tons of consumer goods, unlike the need for hospitals and schools, is going to run out very soon.  I am really fucking glad that in one country at least there is a sensibility about this stupid waste.  The ‘elite’ can go fuck themselves, and I’m glad there disgusting buildings are shut down there instead of using public money to build sports stadiums here.

Hey mill,

It’s not out of the realm of possibility that the architecture of a place of commerce could be turned into a place of education. As a student of the arts, graphic design in particular, I think it would be an extremely interesting architectural endeavor. In addition to elevators, escalators could provide an interesting method of transportation to different floors of Schools…School of Arts on the second, English third, Math first, etc…very interesting classroom designs would be possible, and the design of a mall, which is built to emphasize maneuverability, space and a feeling of being out in the air would make it a potentially welcoming living and learning environment for students. Plus buying books, school supplies and food would be a lot more familiar and fun. Waterfalls could accent lounge areas for students and faculty…hi tech screens normally designed to advertise movies and maps could be used to inform students of activities or upcoming announcements…Venezuela could potentially be home to one of the most unique Universities in the world.

By Blackspeare, December 24 at 1:26 pm #

Hey Fadel, one of the world’s largest malls is in Saudi Arabia and the shopping malls in the southeastern Arabian peninsula are rivaled by none!
================
Hey Blackspeare! Don’t get so excited about playing the stupid game of gotch-you!

Actually, the establishments in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, all the Gulf Emirates, Jordan, Egypt and others, though Arabs and Muslims, are in fact the enemies of both Arabism and Islam. That’s why they only pursue a “cement civilization” based on sandy foundations. And that’s why the political establishments in these countries are puppets of Western powers, always receiving their orders from the West. And finally, that’s why tiny Israel managed to occupy Palestine and continue occupying it for all these long years. I have only contempt for all these regimes and ruling families.

Actually, all these regimes are in bed with the Israeli political, military and espionage establishments and they receive invaluable services from Israel to keep them in power in exchange for hefty amounts of money. And that’s why I said several times before that the road to Palestine must pass through the political capitals of these countries.

You might not appreciate a person like Chavez because you’ve been programmed to hate revolutionaries. But I’ll take Chavez pair of shoes (!!!) over all the leaders of the countries mentioned above. And I keep praying that Arab and Muslim countries above will one day be blessed with leaders like Chavez, that he is balled dictator or authoritarian not withstanding! 

Don’t rush to report me to the espionage bureaus of these countries for I’ve been on their blacklists for years!

So the president of Venezuela can “order” the cessation of a mall project simply by driving by, looking out the window, concluding on the spot he doesn’t like it, and ordering the mayor to halt construction?

That sounds a little heavy handed, without much due process. Perhaps this mall is a monstrosity, but from this news account we would never know. The story being reduced to merely Chavez doesn’t like it and halting the project.

On the other hand, we here in this country are quite foolish. We won’t and can’t help the likes of Chavez advance toward greater democracy because we see South America as our pond, or back yard. Or turf, belonging to us. To the extent that we even believe our interests should be of more importance to Venezuelans than theirs are to them. In effect, we are forcing Chavez toward authoritarianism. And, of course, we will blame it entirely on him. We already have.

This earns Hugo Chávez my Chutzpah of the Week award:

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2008/12/venezuelan-chutzpah.html

Why not all three?  This way when you get sick of shopping you can go right to the hospital.  And when you need to become an educated consumer you can go right to college.  And when you are out of the hospital or finished with school you can buy yourself a gift.  And all this without ever having to leave the complex!

Hey Fadel, one of the world’s largest malls is in Saudi Arabia and the shopping malls in the southeastern Arabian peninsula are rivaled by none!

Yeah, let’s halt building a mall ... and then pretend that architectural design for a mall makes sense to use instead as a university or hospital

real smart guy

why isn’t he building all the hospitals and universities he needs with all that oil money he has confiscated?  ones designed for those important purposes?

A university, yes!
A hospital, yes!
A shopping mall to promote consumerism, no!

This is a man who has more wisdom than all the stupid Western leaders!