Dung,

What country are you from? What country are you in?  Why won’t you tell us? You ashamed or something?

I’m American, and despite the shameful things I wish we hadn’t done, and some of the criminals we have elected, I’m still proud of the many good things my nation has done.  Plus, I’m one of millions working to change things for the better, both for us and our fellow members of the world.

I’m even proud of my adopted state, New Jersey, despite it being the butt of so many jokes.  Can you say the same?

itw
**White Flag?
There must be 10 questions I raised that you responded to with sarcasm and insults, but no answer. **

i’ll let the readers decide who has been resorting to cursing, calling people all sorts of name, swearing, in lieu of any reasoned argument.

====================

you have no answer to my question…..
“why do you insist that unlike china, us has nothing to gain in the current crisis in india “ ?

**Simple. Because the US has nothing to gain from a destabilized India, a valued partner to both the US and our ally, Israel. **

everybody knows that bush has been itching to invade pakistan “to wipe out the terrarists base”, your “messiah”  has promised he wants to up the ante, he wont hesitate invading pakistan and even pledged a huge “surge” of troops in afghan.
tinyurl.com/693trd

the current mess in india is likely to give “he man” obama his carte blanche
http://tinyurl.com/5ca7c9

but you just keep repeating the same old craps, “simple [sic].........blah blah blah” like a god damned parrot.
more like an ostrich actually, just keep burying your head into the sand babe and all will be fine and dandy eh ?

now whats that fancy word you used before ?
“Reductionism means rejecting any fact or evidence that disproves your pet theory.  It is the path to fascism and dictatorship, whether Left, Right or religious.  And you, inherit the fart, are so far down it you can’t tell a an elephant when you see one. “

====================

**I’M CURED!  I figured out I must be CRAZY to argue with a person who hates America SO much

But cheer up, Dung! I’m now sane enough to stop wasting time trying to answer your illogical, unsupported fantasies with logic and facts.  No point in casting pearls….**

yet you are back, looks like you are having a relapse, a terminal one.
no point for me to continue the treatment anymore.
take care.

White Flag?
There must be 10 questions I raised that you responded to with sarcasm and insults, but no answer.
Example:
**Your beloved China will NEVER have a minority ruler unless he is a general who CONQUERS the rest in war.  Russia will never again have a non-Russian—Stalin was the last—and it will never have a non-white Asian. No country in Europe is even CLOSE to having a non-minority leader.  Only in the Americas and in India (where Sonia Gandhi could have been PM) is it possible to have a freely elected minority member as leader.**

yeah sure , i keep hearing this us/india shared values , an ideal partner to check “chinese ambition” blah blah blah…

Yeah, “blah blah blah” sure does rip my arguments apart! ROFLMAO!

Or here’s Dung’s idea of dodged question:

you have no answer to my question…..
“why do you insist that unlike china, us has nothing to gain in the current crisis in india “ ?

Simple. Because the US has nothing to gain from a destabilized India, a valued partner to both the US and our ally, Israel.

However, IF the US could find a way to get Pakistan and India to work together to destroy the Islamic terrorists, then the whole world would benefit.

Still, for those abroad who have become convinced that the USA is the worst and most evil power that ever existed, NOTHING good can come from America, and all evil must come from here, regardless of facts. 

Notice that Dung won’t tell us where he’s from…never ONCE does he say what country he’s in or where he’s from.  Why is that?  What is he hiding?  Maybe he’s a shill?  If so, I’ll bet he wasn’t chosen for this because he’s not very good at it!

Inherit The Wind
**Dung:

I’M CURED!  I figured out I must be CRAZY to argue with a person who hates America SO much **

[translation]
you have no answer to my question…..
“why do you insist that unlike china, us has nothing to gain in the current crisis in india ” ?

**a person who hates America SO much **

i thought you despise bush but you sound exactly like him….
here’s his classic line…
“they disagree with us coz they hate our way of life” !!
yeah sure.

**Your beloved China will NEVER have a minority ruler unless he is a general who CONQUERS the rest in war.  Russia will never again have a non-Russian—Stalin was the last—and it will never have a non-white Asian. No country in Europe is even CLOSE to having a non-minority leader.  Only in the Americas and in India (where Sonia Gandhi could have been PM) is it possible to have a freely elected minority member as leader.**

yeah sure , i keep hearing this us/india shared values , an ideal partner to check “chinese ambition” blah blah blah…
tinyurl.com/65g45j

you and your ilk keep bleating about tibet, dont you even know there’s another tibet, the one india “inherited” from the brits…. the one that no anglos wanna talk about ?
tinyurl.com/4q94cp
democracy eh, lol

**But cheer up, Dung! I’m now sane enough to stop wasting time trying to answer your illogical, unsupported fantasies with logic and facts.  No point in casting pearls…. ***

i’ll let the readers decide who has been making wild and unsubstantiated claims

here’s one example…
itw
**You want to know who is behind something like this attack? Look to who would benefit from it!

The ONLY outside power with an obvious and clear interest in de-stabilizing India is China, India’s biggest economic rival in Asia (Japan is in another category, having computerized automation and high-paid workers).  Even Pakistan is at far more risk from a de-stabilized India—and Pakistan has LONG been a client-state of China, going back 30 or 40 years.  Other outside powers: Russia, Iran, US, Europe, even Israel have NO reason to want India**

there are lots of other gems from itw, but lets not waste more time on that since he has already hoisted the white flag.

Dung:

I’M CURED!  I figured out I must be CRAZY to argue with a person who hates America SO much he cannot see the election of a Black man as a major step forward. Not a be-all, end-all ending to America’s racist history, but a major, important positive step.

Your beloved China will NEVER have a minority ruler unless he is a general who CONQUERS the rest in war.  Russia will never again have a non-Russian—Stalin was the last—and it will never have a non-white Asian. No country in Europe is even CLOSE to having a non-minority leader.  Only in the Americas and in India (where Sonia Gandhi could have been PM) is it possible to have a freely elected minority member as leader.

But cheer up, Dung! I’m now sane enough to stop wasting time trying to answer your illogical, unsupported fantasies with logic and facts.  No point in casting pearls….

Zombie Terrorists

http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-54793.html

Police claim Mumbai bombers took cocaine, LSD before carrying out attacks

London/Mumbai, Dec.2 : The terrorists who struck prominent targets in Mumbai last week, killing 195 people and wounding a further 295, may have pumped themselves with cocaine and LSD to keep going during their murderous three-day rampage.

The Mirror quotes police sources in the Indian financial capital as saying that the tests on the bodies of dead Islamic fanatics have revealed traces of stimulant drugs.

One said: “We found injections containing traces of cocaine and LSD left behind by the terrorists and later found drugs in their blood. There was also evidence of steroids, which isn’t uncommon in terrorists. These men were all toned, suggesting they had been doing some heavy training for the attacks. This explains why they managed to battle the commandos for over 50 hours with no food or sleep.”

The lone survivor of the attack A. A. Kasav is said to have told interrogators the attack was meticulously planned six months ago at a training camp in Pakistan.

Meanwhile, a Muslim graveyard in Mumbai has said it will not bury the nine dead gunmen.

Spokesman Hanif Nalkhande said: “They are not Muslims. Islam does not permit this sort of barbaric crime.”

—- ANI

I wonder if these guys liked to play solitaire. Oh, and they liked to read Catcher in the Rye.

dung eh, ?
folktruther, this ihw dude is getting abusive and irrational.
he needs some serious councilling

inherit the fart
**So…it’s only being “abusive” when you are the recipient, not when you are dishing it out.  If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen! **

just returning the compliment dude.
if YOU cant stand the heat, dont start the fire in the first place.

anyway i dont feel like descending to your level anymore, but if you want to carry on your tantrums, be my guest.

===================

oh i see,
so su with thousands of nukes and overwhelming airforce and armour supriority had been living in abject fear of china in the 60-70’s.
every day i learn something new from you.

**Well, it’s good to learn. I didn’t think you were capable. Yeah, the SU and the Russian Empire before them were scared shitless of the hundreds of millions of Chinese, who HAD conquered them in the past. 

See, in Europe and Asia memories go back further than the last American Presidential election. **

do you also subsrcibe to the yellow peril craps peddled by your military industrial complex shills these days ?

**Yellow Peril? No, I subscribe to the theory that a nation with 1.3 billion people, space flight capability, a HUGE economy and atomic weapons including fusion is a SUPERPOWER and will act as one.  And is acting as one. **

you insinuate about this “yellow horde” in all your “analysis” of sino su dispute [see above for example]
earlier on you even suggested that su needed a “deterrence” to ward off this menace.
dont be coy now.
not getting yellow are you ?

btw, china is still a poor country struggling to feed its gigantic pop, it certainly isnt “acting like a superpower”, otoh, usa has been a superpower for decades now, yet its still acting like a two bit punk with his first gun, lol
tinyurl.com/55q6zb

==========================

** I also recognize that the LEAST racist of the Great Powers and Superpowers is, still, amazingly enough, the United States.  Germany just elected its FIRST Turkish-German official (for example). The world is AMAZED that we have elected a Black man whose father was African, muslim and gave his son an Arabic name.  China IS racist.  That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. **

tsk tsk tsk, so you got a black prez now ?
i suppose this would wipe out in one fell swoop all that you have done in the last two centuries eh?
tinyurl.com/5mezy
oh yeah, come on, everybody pay homage to usa, that shinning light on the hill now.

btw,
i heard u loathe bush dont you ?
well tough luck
you have just voted for four more yrs, may be more, of bushit !!
tinyurl.com/56t73l

or….............even bush on steriod,
see, obama thinks sending drones or commandos into pakistan to kill peasants is for sissies like bush
tinyurl.com/6rnalg
hell the messiah wants to go the whole hog, “lets send in the cavalry” !
tinyurl.com/6ygx88

you do hear the war cries in india babe, someone says this the 911 of india, lets take out pak. !

i presume even you know that the 911 of usa gave the bush gang their pretext to invade afghan , followed by iraq.

so bush on steriod, er, i mean your new messiah, might just get HIS carte blanche to invade pakistan.

now who is the one here who blather that china is the only country stand to gain in the current turmoil ?

look, i cant afford to give you councelling in real time, so you just have to make do with intermittant advice whenever i can manage the time.
do check in often to get your dose though.

regards,
denk

Part I
denk, December 1 at 10:33 pm #

dung eh, ?
folktruther, this ihw dude is getting abusive and irrational.
he needs some serious councilling
********************************************

So…it’s only being “abusive” when you are the recipient, not when you are dishing it out.  If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

********************************************

inherit the fart
**Can you really be that stupid? Viet Nam is connected BY LAND—China invaded BY LAND in the time of Kublai Khan.  Don’t you realize the Mongols warred on HORSEBACK and the sea was a mystery to them?**

now who is the dumbass here ?
if you mean vietnam say so, dont talk about the whole sea.
anybody who reads your mumbo jumbo gets the impression that china has been trying to lord over the whole sea region.
*********************************************

This is moronic. I SAID SE Asia.  That’s SOUTH EAST ASIA, not SEA! You keep showing your stupidity day by day.  Plus, that region was “French Indo-China” and later “Indo-China” and includes Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand at a minimum.  So I just used Viet Nam as an example of Chinese land-based expansionism.

*********************************************
**I can’t believe anyone can be so stupid. It has NOTHING to do with race ...**

oh i see,
so su with thousands of nukes and overwhelming airforce and armour supriority had been living in abject fear of china in the 60-70’s.
every day i learn something new from you.
********************************************

Well, it’s good to learn. I didn’t think you were capable. Yeah, the SU and the Russian Empire before them were scared shitless of the hundreds of millions of Chinese, who HAD conquered them in the past.  See, in Europe and Asia memories go back further than the last American Presidential election. That’s because many of the strategic interests don’t change much, just the technology and the governments do.  There was 15 years between the FIRST Soviet A-bomb (1949) and the first Chinese one (1964).  15 years is a blink of an eye, especially in China which has been civilized for 5,000 years, where a 200 year empire is a short dynasty and the Communists have only been in power 59 years.

No, I simply recognize that great powers and superpowers act as great powers and superpowers. I also recognize that the LEAST racist of the Great Powers and Superpowers is, still, amazingly enough, the United States.  Germany just elected its FIRST Turkish-German official (for example). The world is AMAZED that we have elected a Black man whose father was African, muslim and gave his son an Arabic name.  China IS racist.  That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.

*************************************************
**You think NK would be talking to the Chinese if they weren’t scared shitless that China could nuke them down to melted glass and NOBODY in the world would give a shit?**

do u have any evidence to show that china ever threaten nk with nuclear blackmail ?
you are getting delirious.
***************************************

If someone is standing next to you with an AK-47 and says, I’d like you to strongly consider doing XYZ, he doesn’t have to say “Or I’ll shoot you!” does he?  He doesn’t even have to say “I’ll make you an offer you can’t refuse.”  The THREAT is implicit!  How f’in’ blind can you be?
********************************************
do you also subsrcibe to the yellow peril craps peddled by your military industrial complex shills these days ?
*************************************************

Yellow Peril? No, I subscribe to the theory that a nation with 1.3 billion people, space flight capability, a HUGE economy and atomic weapons including fusion is a SUPERPOWER and will act as one.  And is acting as one.

Part II
***************************************
**And this proves exactly what?**

that you are a liar.
china has never been a bully.
*************************************************

Orwellian new-speak.  Think Taiwan agrees?  How about Viet Nam? Cambodia? Mongolia? Tibet? Laos? Burma? North Korea? South Korea?  Think India has been happy with China’s unstinting support of Pakistan?  Think the victims in Darfur love the Chinese who actively support Khartoum?

China is a superpower.  They throw their weight around just like any and every superpower has ever done.  That does NOT preclude them trying to achieve economic dominance—that’s just smart policy—we did the same thing, raiding the British international banking system after World War I (when history supposedly says we were isolationist).

Liar? That just means I’m present facts you reductionists don’t want to face because they upset your neat world view.  Whose the liar here? Not me!

*************************************************
**More like moronic fantasies 101**

Reductionism means rejecting any fact or evidence that disproves your pet theory.  It is the path to fascism and dictatorship, whether Left, Right or religious.  And you, inherit the fart, are so far down it you can’t tell a an elephant when you see one.
***********************************************

Well, that sure was a compelling argument against reductionism, wasn’t it gang?  ROFLMAO!  You continue, Dung, to convince me that in this battle or arguments you brought a knife to a gunfight…

ok, thats all for now.
i’ll try to squeeze some time tonite or tomorrow to give u further councelling, you need serious help.
*************************************************

Yeah. I’m gonna sit on pins and needles all acquiver just

dung eh, ?
folktruther, this ihw dude is getting abusive and irrational.
he needs some serious councilling

inherit the fart
**Can you really be that stupid? Viet Nam is connected BY LAND—China invaded BY LAND in the time of Kublai Khan.  Don’t you realize the Mongols warred on HORSEBACK and the sea was a mystery to them?**

now who is the dumbass here ?
if you mean vietnam say so, dont talk about the whole sea.
anybody who reads your mumbo jumbo gets the impression that china has been trying to lord over the whole sea region.

**I can’t believe anyone can be so stupid. It has NOTHING to do with race (though most peoples, the Chinese being NO exception, are extremely racist). It has to do with POWER. If you have 100x the pop of your neighbor you can AND WILL dominate him unless there is a larger force to stop you—a deterrent**

oh i see,
so su with thousands of nukes and overwhelming airforce and armour supriority had been living in abject fear of china in the 60-70’s.
every day i learn something new from you.

do you also subsrcibe to the yellow peril craps peddled by your military industrial complex shills these days ?

**You think NK would be talking to the Chinese if they weren’t scared shitless that China could nuke them down to melted glass and NOBODY in the world would give a shit?**

do u have any evidence to show that china ever threaten nk with nuclear blackmail ?
you are getting delirious.

**And this proves exactly what?**

that you are a liar.
china has never been a bully.

**More like moronic fantasies 101**

Reductionism means rejecting any fact or evidence that disproves your pet theory.  It is the path to fascism and dictatorship, whether Left, Right or religious.  And you, inherit the fart, are so far down it you can’t tell a an elephant when you see one.

ok, thats all for now.
i’ll try to squeeze some time tonite or tomorrow to give u further councelling, you need serious help.

Folktruther, December 1 at 8:13 pm #

But Inherit is fun because he is genuinely sincere.  And he does change his opinions without acknowleging it.  I wish more people had his courage to state what they think, however dingbatty it might be; it would be easier to unite the American population against power in the coming period.
***************************************

I don’t need your condescending bullshit, FT.  You live in a paranoid fantasy world where everything is pre-interpreted for you by a bunch of neo-marxist websites full of other paranoids who are pissed at the world and the Universe because it’s been proven time and time again the MARXISM DOES NOT WORK!

So they keep digging deeper into the texts like rejects from the Talmudic scholars as 3rd rate thinkers who are trying to bend a world they don’t have a CLUE about to their comfortable, familiar dogmas.  Because of this they engage in the most unethical form of logic: Reductionism.  Reductionism means rejecting any fact or evidence that disproves your pet theory.  It is the path to fascism and dictatorship, whether Left, Right or religious.  And you, FT, are so far down it you can’t tell a parking ticket from a CIA / Mossad plot!

And from these come wild, insane tin-foil-hat conspiracies with NO evidence, that don’t even make logical sense, yet ignorant arrogant stuffed-shirts like FT who can’t think for themselves take it as gospel.

So don’t talk down to me like I’m a child. I grew up in your world and found out they lied just as much as the Right-wingers lie, if that’s possible. 

You and Dung have no idea what an exchange of ideas means.

denk, December 1 at 7:42 pm #

i brought it up to show that your claim of
**China’s influence and meddling in SE Asia goes back to the time of Marco Polo**
is just more bs.

Can you really be that stupid? Viet Nam is connected BY LAND—China invaded BY LAND in the time of Kublai Khan.  Don’t you realize the Mongols warred on HORSEBACK and the sea was a mystery to them?

**As for the USSR being twice China’s size…are you a COMPLETE idiot????  **

gimme a break,
surely even a “complete idiot” knows that its just a figurative way of saying that su enjoyed overwhelming military superiority over china, conventional and nuclear.

Continued stupidity.  China had fusion weapons in the 60’s. China terrified the SU because it had SO many people and soldiers it could simply overwhelm by sheer numbers if driven hard enough—and openly said it had sufficient numbers to STILL be dangerous after a nuke exchange!

so do you admit that you display racist overtone when you attribute every quarell between china and its neighbours as chinese belligerence…...even in the sino su dispute, when the military disparity is
so lobsided, as if the chinese are such egomaniac that they would take on someone 100 times their size just to show how tough they are ?

I can’t believe anyone can be so stupid. It has NOTHING to do with race (though most peoples, the Chinese being NO exception, are extremely racist). It has to do with POWER. If you have 100x the pop of your neighbor you can AND WILL dominate him unless there is a larger force to stop you—a deterrent.

**As for assuming that the Chinese are behind everything bad in the region: I make no such assumption, merely that it is easily possible,
even likely.  No more. **

you claimed that the chinese have been “throwing their military weight around” with such military “weaklings” like su, india, japan, nk, viet, tw dont you ?

You think NK would be talking to the Chinese if they weren’t scared shitless that China could nuke them down to melted glass and NOBODY in the world would give a shit?

now about you other historical “insight”.
**As for Volkliar: Show my why it’s not in China’s interest to destabilize India, who has been their enemy for decades, even generations. **

fyi,
china and india coexisted peacefully for thousands of yrs.
With periods of detestation and war.

during the tang dynasty china even sent a monk all the way to india to get a budhist scripture.
the trouble started only after the whitey’s arrival, when the brits invaded tibet in 1903 and carved out a large chunk of southern tibet, aka india’s north east today.
tinyurl.com/3anqdz
india refused to give up this booty after the brits departure, china refused to recognise the “macmahon line”, their relationship started to sour.
the situation got worse after the failed uprising in tibet, a joint venture between cia and raw.
“do you wanna kill chinese ?”
tinyurl.com/33e28h
tension escalated to breaking point in 1962, when india mounted a “forward policy”, sending patrols into NORTH of the macmahon line and setting up outposts, in effect staking its claim on territories beyond what it “inherited” from the brits. !
china warned india to back off to no avail and the rest is history.
tinyurl.com/6b3kzr

And this proves exactly what?

see, saying that china fights with this or that means nothing, you got to investigate the context, who started the provocation, things like that.

thats history 101 for now.

More like moronic fantasies 101.

Denk, Inherit doesn’t have any serious CIA connections, he has just been indoctrinated by mainstrem history and the mainstream American and Zionist truth traditions.  He says lots of things like China was behind the India massacre; that’s how one knows he’s not a professional.  China is gaining power by economic means and has been trying to stay clear of political conflict for decades. 

India is only a challenge to China in Western dreams.  China has perhaps five times its GDP and is growing much faster.  India also has a weak state and is not a military threat unliess instigated and armed by the US or the West. 

China built a four lane highway over the mountains down through Pakistan to the Arabian sea to process Middle Eastern oil.  All it wants is political stability in Pakistan.

But Inherit is fun because he is genuinely sincere.  And he does change his opinions without acknowleging it.  I wish more people had his courage to state what they think, however dingbatty it might be;  it would be easier to unite the American population against power in the coming period.

** Seafaring exploratory trade missions do NOT prove the Chinese aren’t (and weren’t) imperialistic; they are totally irrelevant.**

i brought it up to show that your claim of
**China’s influence and meddling in SE Asia goes back to the time of Marco Polo**
is just more bs.

**As for the USSR being twice China’s size…are you a COMPLETE idiot????  **

gimme a break,
surely even a “complete idiot” knows that its just a figurative way of saying that su enjoyed overwhelming military superiority over china, conventional and nuclear.

so do you admit that you display racist overtone when you attribute every quarell between china and its neighbours as chinese belligerence…...even in the sino su dispute, when the military disparity is
so lobsided, as if the chinese are such egomaniac that they would take on someone 100 times their size just to show how tough they are ?

**As for assuming that the Chinese are behind everything bad in the region: I make no such assumption, merely that it is easily possible,
even likely.  No more. **

you claimed that the chinese have been “throwing their military weight around” with such military “weaklings” like su, india, japan, nk, viet, tw dont you ?

now about you other historical “insight”.
**As for Volkliar: Show my why it’s not in China’s interest to destabilize India, who has been their enemy for decades, even generations. **

fyi,
china and india coexisted peacefully for thousands of yrs.
during the tang dynasty china even sent a monk all the way to india to get a budhist scripture.
the trouble started only after the whitey’s arrival, when the brits invaded tibet in 1903 and carved out a large chunk of southern tibet, aka india’s north east today.
tinyurl.com/3anqdz
india refused to give up this booty after the brits departure, china refused to recognise the “macmahon line”, their relationship started to sour.
the situation got worse after the failed uprising in tibet, a joint venture between cia and raw.
“do you wanna kill chinese ?”
tinyurl.com/33e28h
tension escalated to breaking point in 1962, when india mounted a “forward policy”, sending patrols into NORTH of the macmahon line and setting up outposts, in effect staking its claim on territories beyond what it “inherited” from the brits. !
china warned india to back off to no avail and the rest is history.
tinyurl.com/6b3kzr

see, saying that china fights with this or that means nothing, you got to investigate the context, who started the provocation, things like that.

since you talk about the czar, you do know how the sino su border dispute came about right, here’s a clue, its certainly not chinese imperialism.

thats history 101 for now.

Denk,

I need you to give me a history lesson like I need George Bush as President.  It’s amazing how you can misunderstand anything and everything.

The hatred the Vietnamese have for the Chinese is not intended to prove the Chinese are bad guys, but it’s indicative of the enmity they have for the Chinese. Unlike the Nazis’ enmity for Jews, which was based on myth and scapegoatism, the Vietnamese have detested the Chinese for their incursions and invasions since the time of Kublai Khan.  Seafaring exploratory trade missions do NOT prove the Chinese aren’t (and weren’t) imperialistic; they are totally irrelevant.

As for assuming that the Chinese are behind everything bad in the region: I make no such assumption, merely that it is easily possible, even likely.  No more.

As for the USSR being twice China’s size…are you a COMPLETE idiot????  China’s ALWAYS had more than double the USSR’s population—more like 3x.  Currently, with China’s 1.3 BILLION people and the rump Russian Federation having less than 200 million, the Chinese Army is bigger than all of the Federation.  I guess you DON’T know “all about” the sino-soviet border clashes.

If you REALLY want to understand how nations interact you need to look at a map, and assess their military strength and their economic might.  Their political system is almost irrelevant (except in the case of Iran).  For example: Russian foreign policy is basically unchanged since the Tsars.  From Imperial Russia, to the USSR, to the modern Russian Federation, the concerns and fears remained the same.  Because Geography tops political form.

inherit
**Your knowledge of history matches your analytical ability—it’s faulty.  I can’t help it that you are unaware of the border wars between China and the Soviet Union**

dude, i know about the sino soviet border clashes alright.
but using that as an example of chinese aggressiveness is pure bs.
it would be a very stupid bully who choose someone twice his size to “throw his weight around” init ?
its elementary watson.

**Nor can I help that you are unaware of China’s influence and meddling in SE Asia goes back to the time of Marco Polo. **

lol, have u heard of admiral cheng he,
he led a naval expedition force to visit sea countries , mind u,  they went there not to loot and plundered, but to trade and establish diplomatic relationship.
some of the crew even stayed and assimiate into the local society.
many sea leaders like dr mahathir are fond of citing this history to hightlight the difference between the benigh nature of the chinese empire vs the kind of “i come , i see, i conquer” varieties of the whities.

**Nor are you aware that Vietnamese-born friends insist that Viet Nam’s government is now a Chinese puppet—and are you aware that Vietnamese DETEST the Chinese? **

again you are being presumtuous.
i know all about the animity between the two country.
but what are u trying to prove by claiming that the viets detest the chinese ?
we know the nazis detested the jews, does it prove that the jews are all creeps then ?
just saying that a dislikes b is meaningless.
otoh, when the whole world come to the same conclusion, now thats really saying something.
tinyurl.com/5febz8
i suppose you will now default to your self denial mode like “i dont give a rat ass what the whole world think about me ” ?
we know all about that too….
someone even composed a song for it, “me and you against the world”
tinyurl.com/7v866

as for who has been throwing its weight around in this part of the world, i would rather ask the locals than depend on your jaundiced view.
now get this ,  india is often deirded as the “israel of south asia”
tinyurl.com/56co2m
that sure is saying something init ?

you are a history buff eh,
i will give you another history 101 tomorrow.
stay tuned.

denk, November 30 at 9:58 pm #

may be itw is privvy to some top secret stuff from his cia pals
*************************************

You know, I don’t give a rat’s ass that most bloggers here are tin-foil-hat conspiracy paranoids and think CIA/Mossad is behind EVERY world crisis including Hurricane Katrina and the Xmas Tsunami.

Your knowledge of history matches your analytical ability—it’s faulty.  I can’t help it that you are unaware of the border wars between China and the Soviet Union.  Nor can I help that you are unaware of China’s influence and meddling in SE Asia goes back to the time of Marco Polo.  Nor are you aware that Vietnamese-born friends insist that Viet Nam’s government is now a Chinese puppet—and are you aware that Vietnamese DETEST the Chinese?

Nor did I say China is behind the attacks.  I simply said they are the suspect with the most to gain.  More than the US, Israel, Russia, even Pakistan.

To say that the only way I could have come up with this is by CIA connections is the height of moronic inference.  All you have to do is…LOOK AT A MAP and use a few gray cells. Do you think only insiders at CIA with access to “Eyes Only” information are capable of analysis?  Hell, we’ve SEEN that their analysis can be skewed by the Vice-President to justify the illegal war in Iraq.

As for VolkLiar—he’s so caught up in his Marxist paranoid pipe-dreams he thinks a cop stopping him for running a red light is a CIA/Mossad “Black Op”. His view of reality is SO skewed it has become meaningless.

Reminds me of a political cartoon from the early 80’s. A North Carolina satirist had drawn Jesse Helms in long coat, deer-stalker hat and pipe.  It was labeled “Sherlock Helms” and had him saying “Elementary, my dear Watson. The Communists did it!”

That’s you and Volk and Fadel in reverse—“Elementary my dear Watson. The CIA and Mossad did it!”

99% of bloggers my ass!

Well Folktruther,

You just keep putting your feet in your ass in trying to analyze me, because you can’t. (and it must be really difficult to try to maneuver that way, which is why I guess you never leave your armchair, even to go to the toilet.)

I’ve NEVER been an ‘insider’ - Dem or otherwise. I’ve spent my life avoiding ‘groups’ of insiders or outsiders. It’s just me dude, on account of my experiences with clueless assholes like you, who think they know anything about me. Your bi-polar obsession with me is a waste of your time and energy, and you’re out of your league trying to peg me. I’m in my own league and you can’t even kiss my ass folktruther, let alone know who I am or what I’m about.

Your ‘apologist’ rhetoric is equally pathetic. Obama damn sure doesn’t need an apologist, and neither do I.

Now try to dream about somebody other than me for a change Folktruther. If you keep this up, the authorities are gonna think you’re stalking me.

folktruther

itw keep saying that china is such an “obvious” suspect, well thats not what the majority of bloggers [99.999%]seem to agreed on.
“Pick any ongoing conflict in the world and see if you do not see the secret hands of the United States/Israel busily at work fanning the flames. These flames are the legends “
tinyurl.com/4mmkch
[just paste this in the address bar, as it is, and hit enter]

may be itw is privvy to some top secret stuff from his cia pals

Denk, the saving grace of Inherit is that he actually believes some of the stuff he says.  He identifies with both American and primitve Zionist ideology and this conflicts with basic geo-strategic analysis formulated from a world historical perspective.

This is quite different than Cyrena, who is completely cynical.  She just wants to be a Dem Insider and so is an apologist for Dem leaders, especially Obama at the present time.  Inherit is an Obama apologist too, but he actually believes in that Responsible Power crap, just as long as Obama doesn’t become anti-Semitic and raise his taxes.

Zionist sincerity is a far more dangerous weapon that Dem cynicism, but it is morally preferable.  Dem cyuicsm is hopeless, it identifies with personal power.  Cyrena, and most Dem leaders, don’t believe in anything but being Insiders, as is also true of Gops.  So it is a matter of exposing the cynical apologists and attracting the naive to a progressive positiion that hasn’t yet been formulated.

And with people like Inherit, who has a decent streak, to get them to attack the brutality and historical bankruptcy of the Likud strategy.

inherit the wind

**Your racist arrogance is revealed by the fact that you think the Indians and Pakistanis are too stupid to understand MAD—Mutually Assured destruction**

dude, every country has its share of nutcase, including israel.
back when india tested its agni1, with a puny range of few hundred km, some in a newsgroups were already chanting “lets nuke the three gorges dam”. mind you, china by then already had a credible deterrence of nuclear arsenal including 20 icbms.

ex defence miniser george fernandez once boasted that nuclear war with pakistan was winnable, “india could take a few hits and still wipe out pakistan” !!
tinyurl.com/6axupw

**And don’t think the Chinese aren’t throwing THEIR military weight around. Ask the Vietnamese, laotians, Cambodians, North Koreans, Taiwanese, tibetans and even the Japanese.  They fought horrible, brutal border wars with the Soviet Union.  They have long been a supporter of Pakistan as a counter to India, their only real rival in the region. **

lol, in the 60-70’s soviet power was at its zenith, the only country who could make uncle sham [thats your buddy pal] sit up in the middle of the night in cold sweat, like your said, thats called MAD.

if the “bullying” chinese wanted to “throw their weight around” surely they could choose someone less menacing than one of the world’s only two superpowers ?
such as…...................

i am surprise you didnt mention the “chinese aggression” against your buddy in 1962.
[tinyurl.com/27fm9u]
surely thats a classic case of the chinese “throwing their weight” around eh ?

your racist arrogance is revealed when you presume that the chinese are to blame every time there’s a quarel with a neighour and they are so stupid as to provoke a 900 lbs polar bear coz they like to “throw their weight around” !!

nk ?
who has been pressuring china to “lean on”  its pal nk, to make them “come to the negotiation table”, thats right, its your good pal uncle sham.but when china tried to do exactly that guess who was the one who sabotage its effort. ?
tinyurl.com/38hzz
tinyurl.com/5w6vzb

cambodia, laos ?
hey babe, check your history.
its good ole uncle sham who bombed these two countries, together with vietnam,  “back to the stone age”, [3m “collateral damage” ] ,not china.

japan ?
hey who was “throwing its weight around” in ww2, i remember it wasnt china !
who is still occupying a piece of chinese property ?
tinyurl.com/6h6334
who fired the first shot in the east china sea ?
tinyurl.com/5hfrrc

tw ?
who was the one who inflamed the tw “crisis” ?
tinyurl.com/3d5xtl

inherit the wind

**Your racist arrogance is revealed by the fact that you think the Indians and Pakistanis are too stupid to understand MAD—Mutually Assured destruction**

dude, every country has its share of nutcase, including israel.
back when india tested its agni1, with a puny range of few hundred km, some in a newsgroups were already chanting “lets nuke the three gorges dam”. mind you, china by then already had a credible deterrence of nuclear arsenal including 20 icbms.

ex defence miniser george fernandez once boasted that nuclear war with pakistan was winnable, “india could take a few hits and still wipe out pakistan” !!
tinyurl.com/6axupw

**And don’t think the Chinese aren’t throwing THEIR military weight around. Ask the Vietnamese, laotians, Cambodians, North Koreans, Taiwanese, tibetans and even the Japanese.  They fought horrible, brutal border wars with the Soviet Union.  They have long been a supporter of Pakistan as a counter to India, their only real rival in the region. **

lol, in the 60-70’s soviet power was at its zenith, the only country who could make uncle sham [thats your buddy pal] sit up in the middle of the night in cold sweat, like your said, thats called MAD.

if the “bullying” chinese wanted to “throw their weight around” surely they could choose someone less menacing than one of the world’s only two superpowers ?
such as…...................

i am surprise you didnt mention the “chinese aggression” against your buddy in 1962.
surely thats a classic case of the chinese “throwing their weight” around eh ?

your racist arrogance is revealed when you presume that the chinese are to blame every time there’s a quarel with a neighour and they are so stupid as to provoke a 900 lbs polar bear coz they like to “throw their weight around” !!

nk ?
who has been pressuring china to “lean on”  its pal nk, to make them “come to the negotiation table”, thats right, its your good pal uncle sham.but when china tried to do exactly that guess who was the one who sabotage its effort. ?
tinyurl.com/38hzz
tinyurl.com/5w6vzb

cambodia, laos ?
hey babe, check your history.
its good ole uncle sham who bombed these two countries, together with vietnam,  “back to the stone age”, [3m “collateral damage” ] ,not china.

japan ?
hey who was “throwing its weight around” in ww2, i remember it wasnt china !
who is still occupying a piece of chinese property ?
tinyurl.com/6h6334
who fired the first shot in the east china sea ?
tinyurl.com/5hfrrc

tw ?
who was the one who inflamed the tw “crisis” ?
tinyurl.com/3d5xtl

@ Cyrena

As someone who was skeptical of Obama’s moderate posturing during the campaign, I have to admit that I am gobsmacked by these appointments , most of which could just as easily have come from a President McCain. (Jim Jones is an old friend of McCain’s, and McCain almost certainly would have asked Gates to stay on as well.) This all but puts an end to the 16-month timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, the unconditional summits with dictators, and other foolishness that once emanated from the Obama campaign. His appointments suggest that, if anything, his administration will have a Reapolitiker, rather than a liberal, bent, although Clinton and Steinberg at State should be powerful voices for “neo-liberalism” which is not so different in many respects from “neo-conservativism”. Both, for instance, support humanitarian interventions in places like Darfur and Bosnia.—Max Boot

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/boot/44551

It is time to hang it up, Cyrena. You were duped. Admit it. You don’t even have to apologize to me about all the smack you have said of me. I assume you voted for Obama in hopes of withdrawing from Iraq. Even this paleo-conservative, libertarian, southern Democrat recognized Obama as a continuation of bloody empire.

Fadel Abdallah, November 30 at 12:22 pm #

Since you’re the epitome representative of evil Zionism, would you dare to post here what is the famous motto of the Mossad?!
*******************************************

Stop trying to act like an arrogant schoolboy looking for a fight and issuing absurd challenges!

Not ONCE did you address the three logical points I raised. Not once. Because you cannot. Nor can you come up with a reason why Mossad is behind it other than the ancient view that all Jews are evil familiars of The Devil.

There is NO logical reason why Mossad, no matter how malevolent you think they are, would be behind this unless they are TOTAL IDIOTS!!!  (And I think the one thing we could agree upon is that Mossad is not run by idiots.)

As for Volkliar: Show my why it’s not in China’s interest to destabilize India, who has been their enemy for decades, even generations.

I know, I know—you think China is the mythic Worker’s Paradise, despite slave labor, reproductive tyranny, and the tendency to poison food and toys to save a buck or two.  So this “paradise” couldn’t have a covert agency like the CIA, Mossad, M5/M6, the KGB, etc.  And I’ll bet you still believe in the Tooth Fairy.

You want to know who is behind something like this attack? Look to who would benefit from it!

And it’s “aspirin”...Call you? I’d call an undertaker first!

By Inherit The Wind, November 30 at 9:01 am #

“Meanwhile, Fadel has gone off the reservation into evil fantasy land hypothesizing how it MUST be Mossad trying to destabilize its friend, India…..and why is that????”
====================
Well, here we go again Mr.Zionist! When you could not respond directly to the issues I raised in my several posts, you include this short “evil fantasy” paragraph within your respond to another poster!

Well, if I have gone “off the reservation into evil fantasy land,” then you must be living permanently and simultaneously into both that reservation and evil fantasy land. Because of people like you, I am now convinced of what was once declared in the UN that “Zionism is racism.” And we know what mentality racists have: they believe that they are the holders of the truth to the exclusion of everyone else, and that they are the “chosen people of God;” so that every evil they do is virtue since it is done in the name of that God of theirs!

Since you’re the epitome representative of evil Zionism, would you dare to post here what is the famous motto of the Mossad?!

A Khohar-those Hymilayan waters must have something in them that drive people loony.  Pakistan is a country like any other with a power structure that oppressies its people, as they all do.  But the US wants to bend it to its own interests to attack the Pustans that make up a large fraction of its population.

Therefore this terrorist act may be a false flag operation to put pressure on Pakistan.

As for your analysis that China is behind it to destablize India, Inherit, take two asperin and don’t call me in the morning.

A Khokar, November 30 at 4:51 am #

Pakistan is a God gifted country. All Pakistani drink the water of same Himalayas. Islam is our faith and Allah is our Guardian and wallie. If need be Pakistan certainly has the proven ability to erupt like Himalaya and build a new phenomenon for the world to see.

**********************************

Yeah, sounds just like heaven on earth…If you can dodge the bullets and bombs and intimidation tactics.  In today’s NY Times is a story about how in Pakistan it’s very common for an angry husband to douse his wife’s face (or ex-wife’s face) with acid, burning and melting her flesh off and blinding her…and then walks away and nobody punishes him.  Pure heaven.

Meanwhile, Fadel has gone off the reservation into evil fantasy land hypothesizing how it MUST be Mossad trying to destabilize its friend, India…..and why is that????

No, there are 3 basic scenarios that make some sense:

1) It is exactly what it looks like, short-sighted fanatics who claim to be “devout” Muslims are trying to promote a regional/civil in the belief that God will not let the Muslims lose to the “vile” Hindus.  And they may or may not be backed by Pakistani groups (But HIGHLY doubtful that the Pakistani govt backs them).

2) Slightly less realistic is that similarly crazy fanatical Hindus within certain Indian police and military services put this together (using Muslim fanatical dupes) as an excuse to crush Islam in India and for a Hindu India to emerge as incontestably dominant on the Sub-Continent.

3) The ONLY outside power with an obvious and clear interest in de-stabilizing India is China, India’s biggest economic rival in Asia (Japan is in another category, having computerized automation and high-paid workers).  Even Pakistan is at far more risk from a de-stabilized India—and Pakistan has LONG been a client-state of China, going back 30 or 40 years.  Other outside powers: Russia, Iran, US, Europe, even Israel have NO reason to want India de-stabilized—they all should want just the opposite.

Logic and facts must supercede fantasy and age-old hatreds when it comes to explaining the horrific events since Wednesday night.

The extent of the attack was shocking but it was only a matter of time.  The present day Hindu Nationalist party was founded in Bombay/Mumbai and from there the Hindu nationalists have carried out brutal attacks on Muslims in the Gujarat state.  It is possible that Pakistan was involved but certainly the Muslims in the area had motive without any involvement of Pakistan.

Cyrena,

It is amazing how dramatically you changed your tunes
since your beloved Obama won the election. Now you
are defender of the ruling elites who have aquired
a very deceptive mask.
The conductors keep changing but the music is still
the same.  Wake up from this euphoria and have
strong drink of black coffee.

Dear All,
The world scenario in this region has taken a real turn. Pakistan was called as country to come up and serve the International cause; previously to help partake in Soviet union invasion of Afghanistan and lately to act as front state in Global war fare excursions against terrorism. Pakistan has done its duties in good faith, in true letter and spirit but astonishingly; Pakistan has always been misused and misquoted.

After using Pakistan like tissue paper the evil forces have joined hands in this region and are all out to attack Pakistan from west as well as from the East. To Press it so hard that it disappear in thin airs.

You may find that Pakistanis after evading through an era of long dark night are currently in search of a Leader, a Messiah for them. This nation is a very resilient nation. They are the notch above the rest because they don’t carry any malicious agenda against any one in the world except offering them peace and good will. Pakistan has no evil designs or ambitions to subjugate others in order to fulfill the vulturous greed like other do.

But you know how the towering heights of Himalaya came in to being. When two tectonic plates i.e. northern margin of Indian plate and Eurasian plate collided; rather than buckling or delving under; this land of our, choose most dramatically a reaction and under that pressure erupted up ward and lifting it and creating the Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau and beyond.

Pakistan is a God gifted country. All Pakistani drink the water of same Himalayas. Islam is our faith and Allah is our Guardian and wallie. If need be Pakistan certainly has the proven ability to erupt like Himalaya and build a new phenomenon for the world to see.

Hasbonullah, wa Nehm ul wakeel.

For LinKs; http://www.adab-arz.co.uk/

@Paracelsus

“...Ruppert is quoting Zbig. Listen to the lecture, and then tell me who is the crackpot, Zbig or myself…”

Let’s just think this through for a second, you want me to listen to this Ruppert character quote ZBig, even though I’ve read and heard straight from the horses mouth on countless occasions? I already KNOW what *Brzezinski* has to say, and I know what Barack Obama has said, and none of it is in what I would consider to be real time. Like NOW.

Well, I take that back, partially. Obama has maintained a long term issue with Pakistan’s radical element and their proximity to Pakistan’s nukes, not to mention the connection to, and alleged support for the Taliban and al-Qaeda. And yes, Obama does basically believe in the danger of global terror, and more specifically in the goal to neutralize al-Qaeda at the top of the heap. I don’t agree with him in that respect, because I’m perfectly well aware of what a farce the ‘war on terror’ is. From the beginning, it’s been a Cheney-regime sponsored ‘war OF terror’ on us and the rest of the world. Be that as it may, there’s no denying that global terrorism has increased by over 800% in the past 7 years,  and I share the concern about loose nukes in Pakistan.

So that much at least, is on-going, and can be said to exist in real time, even though Obama’s initial opinion was formulated back when Musharraff was still the military dictator pet of the Cheney neocons, and we were shoving millions down Musharraff’s pants to supposedly assist in the containment of the ‘terrorists’ in the tribal region they were known to be. But, Musharraff wasn’t earning his millions, and some US citizens even have a problem with the fact that we have been giving our money to a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP anyway!! WTF?? How did we get those kind of ‘allies’? So, that was basically Obama’s point. If we’re giving them our money, and they aren’t doing whatever it is they’re supposed to be doing, (like catching bin Laden, since that’s who the Bush operatives outsourced it to) then we would do it instead. Again, I don’t necessarily agree with that, and that much is ‘dated’ as well, since Musharraf is now gone.  So, you really don’t know WHAT Obama has planned for Pakistan, because things have changed on the ground, and continue to do so.

As for the Brzezinski references, none of that is in real time, or has any more than a minimal real time connection to Obama.

Like this:
“…It is well known that Zbig, considers Asia as the most important area to control as he mentioned this in his book The Grand Chessboard…”

That book is 10 years old Paracelsus, and you exist in a time warp…. an exceeding narrow one at that. He’s written other things since then, (being a most prolific author) and even if he hadn’t, there’s no evidence that his 10 year old opinions on THAT PART of Asia have been somehow transferred to Obama’s own ideology and pragmatism based on real time events that are changing rapidly, even as I type, and even though Barack Obama will not have the kind of control to do anything until January 21st. And, YOU don’t know WHAT he’s gonna do.

In the reality of now, Zbig is an old man who certainly CAN offer adcise from experience and intelligence, but Barak Obama is the 47- year old guy we elected to be a 21st Century leader/administrator, since it’s really critical to catch-up with the 21st Century.  I don’t think many American’s much like our decline to 3rd world status, while still trying to pull off the world bully role. I’m also firmly convinced that Obama will make his own decisions, based on information from muliple sources. That’s what smart leaders do.

Meantime, I don’t need to view any videos of Ruppert quoting Zbig, to figure out who is or isn’t a crackpot. I’ve read the bulk of Zbigs work, and I’ve read the bulk of your posts for over a year here at Truthdig.  It all speaks for itself.

@ Cyrena

That’s what’s so bizarre (but not surprising considering the source) about Para’s determination to connect Obama as ZBig’s ideological errand boy, in reference to Afghanistan.

I was referring to Pakistan. It is well known that Zbig, considers Asia as the most important area to control as he mentioned this in his book The Grand Chessboard. Go back over Obama’s speeches and he will mention the use of military options in Pakistan in the GWOT. You mentioned Zbig’s unfortunate involvement with Afghanistan, but he seems to have a sanguinary habitude as he encouraged the Chinese to support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Please see Ruppert’s lectures on Zbig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6iWom6R5Io

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZB__Yy_2qQ&NR=1

Ruppert is quoting Zbig. Listen to the lecture, and then tell me who is the crackpot, Zbig or myself.

ITW to FT

“You seriously need help.  I thought for once you were able to look at a situation without bias and either analyze it or admit you couldn’t without more facts.”

Then this…

” I’ll say it again: You need help, badly.”

~~~

So true. Glad you figured that out, but I doubt it will help. He and Paracelsus both just keep slapping away the lithium.

I just noticed Paracelsus hate-on for Brzezinski still revved up. He never quits with that and his visceral hatred for Obama. It gets old, but he’s apparently oblivious to it.

That does remind me though, of a book Tony Wicher loaned me; “America and the World: Conversations on the Future of American Foreign Policy”. These are conversations between ZBig and Scowcroft, moderated by David Ignatius. I’d kind of been putting off reading it, but ONLY in favor of some exceedingly rare ‘escape’ reading. After November 4th, I figured I deserved a vacation from the insanity of the reality, so fiction becomes the perfect vacation escape. Whoever said “Truth is stranger than fiction” knew what he or she was talking about. I could read The Exorcist or Stephen King, or any of Hannibal Lector’s escapades and feel far less terrorized than I have by the reality of the Dick Bush policies of the past 8 years. It’s cheaper than booze, and there’s no hangover.

But I digress. Now that I’ve decompressed, it might be a good time to check out the book. I like ZBig well enough, at least from what I’ve read and heard from him, though he certainly blew it back in the earlier Afghanistan fiasco with the Soviets. Maybe that’s why he’s so reluctant to have us become more embroiled in the region now, INCLUDING Pakistan. Nearly everything that I’ve read or heard from Brzezinski on the subject of increased military operations in Afghanistan, (and this has been over the past 6 to 8 months I guess) has him reluctant if not downright opposed to such military involvement.

That’s what’s so bizarre (but not surprising considering the source) about Para’s determination to connect Obama as ZBig’s ideological errand boy, in reference to Afghanistan. The increase in military operations that Obama has referenced (like from beginning, since he believes the current admin dropped the ball on getting to al-Qaeda and OBL) is NOT one that ZBig has espoused himself!!! In fact, he appears opposed to it!

Another prime example of how logic, facts, evidence, or just basic cognitive dot-connection is so lacking in the world of crackpots. And, there are a lot of crackpots around.

The Western intelligence agencies, Fadel,especially US, Britain and Israel, work together so it is difficult to say who is responsible for what.  Given Bush’s statement, and the NYTimes pieces which parrot the offical US line, it appears that this is a falso flag operation to put Indian pressure on Pakistan.  This complements the US uncrease in giving India more nuclear armements.

The idea may be to involve India more directly in the Afghan war, which the US and the West is losing.The bait is to dismember Pakistan the way the West did the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, breaking it up into its four major manorities.  A map has been circulating in US circles with the new countries defined.  It has been leaked to the Pakistanis, who take the threat seriously.

I assume that the Indian government was involved in the terrorist attack, if only marginally.  they are making noises like they are ready to take advantage of it.

This is the second incident involving nuclear powers, the first being the attack of Georgia against Russia.  The Bushites apparently want to go out with a bang, possibly a nuclear one.

The best book I’ve found detailing the false flag operations of the intelligence agencies, including 9/11, is THE WAR ON TRUTH by Nafeez Ahmed.  A major effort, praised highly by Gore Vidal and Pilger.

                  ***

Inherit, you’re driveling again.

Part of another lengthy article by Yoginder Sikand in http://www.countercurrents.org, raising the question of possible Mossad-CIA connection to the Mumbai terror attacks!
======================
“And then there is a possible Israeli angle that some are raising. Thus, the widely-read Mumbai-based tabloid Mid-Day, in an article about a building where numerous militants were holed up titled ‘Mumbai Attack: Was Nariman House the Terror Hub?’, states:

“The role that Nariman House is coming to play in this entire attack drama is puzzling. Last night, residents ordered close to 100 kilograms of meat and other food, enough to feed an army or a bunch of people for twenty days. Shortly thereafter, the ten odd militants moved in, obviously, indicating that the food and meat was ordered, keeping their visit in mind, another cop added.

“One of the militants called up a television news channel and voiced his demands today, but, interestingly, when he was asked where are they all holed him, he said at the Israeli owned Nariman House and they are six of them here”, one of the investigating cops said. Since morning, there has been exchange of gun fire has been going on and the militants seem well equipped to counter the cops fire. To top it, they have food and shelter. One wonders [if] they have the support of the residents, a local Ramrao Shanker said.”

A Mossad/Israeli hand in the affair might seem far-fetched to some, but not so to others, who point to the role of Israeli agents in destabilizing a large number of countries as well as possibly operating within some radical Islamist movements, such as a group in Yemen styling itself ‘Islamic Jihad’, said to be responsible for the bombing of the American Embassy in Sanaa, and which is said to have close links with the Israeli intelligence. Some have raised the question if the Mossad or even the CIA might not be directly or otherwise instigating some disillusioned Muslim youth in India, Pakistan or elsewhere to take to terror by playing on Muslim grievances, operating through existing Islamist groups or spawning new ones for this purpose.

If this charge is true—although this remains to be conclusively established—the aim might be to further radicalize Muslims so as to provide further pretext for American and Israeli assaults on Islam and Muslim countries. The fact that the CIA had for years been in very close contact with the Pakistani ISI and radical Islamist groups in Pakistan is also being raised in this connection. The possible role of such foreign agencies of being behind some terror attacks that India has witnessed in recent years to further fan anti-Muslim hatred and also to weaken India is also being speculated on in some circles.

Whether all this is indeed true needs to be properly investigated. But the fact remains that it appears to be entirely in the interest of the Israeli establishment and powerful forces in America to create instability in India, fan Hindu-Muslim strife, even to the point of driving India and Pakistan to war with each other, and thereby drag India further into the deadly embrace of Zionists and American imperialists.

In other words, irrespective of who is behind the deadly attacks on Mumbai, it appears to suit the political interests and agendas of multiple and equally pernicious political forces—Islamist and Hindu radicals, fired by a hate-driven Manichaean vision of the world, but also global imperialist powers that seem to be using the attacks as a means to push India even deeper into their suicidal axis.”

Folktruther, November 29 at 3:51 pm #

A significant fraction of the Israeli population have been indoctrinated to believe in Transfer, and Israel has stepped up increasing the settlements in Palestine, which has now reached a half million Israels.  This has made a two state solution, the obvious compromise, historically obsolete.
**********************************************

Watch out, FT!  There are Zionist Mossad agents hiding under your bed and tapping your phones just to get a hint of what you know of their secret plans!  You know they have this new brain-wave detector so you better put on your tin-foil hat!

Your racist arrogance is revealed by the fact that you think the Indians and Pakistanis are too stupid to understand MAD—Mutually Assured Destruction.

Plus you hold up the Chinese as paragons of economic might—who used slave labor to build up their industry—not in the 19th century, but in the recent decades. That’s the Chinese—whose lack of sensible regulation and enforcement result in rates of pollution that top ours, who poison toothpaste, toys, infant formula and pet food just to make a buck.  We had to get rid of nearly half of my little one’s Thomas toys because of lead paint contamination from your “utopia”.

And don’t think the Chinese aren’t throwing THEIR military weight around. Ask the Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, North Koreans, Taiwanese, Tibetans and even the Japanese.  They fought horrible, brutal border wars with the Soviet Union.  They have long been a supporter of Pakistan as a counter to India, their only real rival in the region.

How come nobody’s asking if the Chinese are involved? They alone would benefit from India’s disruption. Theirs is the most obvious place to look.  But NOOOOOO…instead there are outlandish theories about Mossad and the CIA, who gain NOTHING from disrupting India.

As I said, get help, FT:
“I said if security’s what you need
I’ll buy a couch for you.
A headshrinker is cheaper and quicker
and a damn sight safer too!”—Andorra

Below, is the ending paragraph of a good article written by Benu Mathew, the editor of http://www.countercurrents.org on the Mumbai terror attacks. The writers on this site are experts on the Indo-Pak affairs!
======================= 
“And now to the question that is on everybody’s mind. Who did this dastardly act? Although, this is not the topic of this article and also it is for the investigation agencies to decide, and as I don’t want to engage in wild guesses I can suggest only this much, those forces who destroyed the twin towers in New York might be behind the Mumbai terror attacks too. Whoever benefited from 9/11 will benefit from the Mumbai terror attack internationally and the Hindutva forces will benefit from it locally.

And the final question, Whither India?

And I fear how long can I write articles such as this.”

Binu Mathew is the editor of http://www.countercurrents.org. He can be reached at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

I see what it is, Inherit, you ignorant lout, you don’t make a distinction between a Zionist power structure, either American or Israel (or other countries as well) and the Jewish people of those countries.  The power interests of ALL power structures diverge from the interests of the populations they rule.  The intelligence agencies serve the interests of power, not that of the people.

Aside from the fact that you think that anyone that tries to raise your taxes is anti-Semitic, you misunderstand, partially willfully, what I am saying.  I didn’t say that anyone was TRYING to cause a nueclear war, although they might! but that if one would occur, it would make it more legitimate for the Israel, and the US or anyone else, to use it, including pre-emptively.

The increased threat would then increase the power of the nuclear haves, making the spread of nuclear weapons more likely.  And since the US and apartheid Isreal are both extremely reactionary and murderous, they are more likely to use nueclear weapons than a more progessive power system, such as China, which is gaining power rapidly by economic means.

As I’ve stated elsewhere a nuclear war might also serve as a distraction to ‘ethnic cleanse’ the Palestinians from their land, assuming the Israelis don’t starve the West Bank the way they are doing Gaza, where half the population are children. 

A significant fraction of the Israeli population have been indoctrinated to believe in Transfer, and Israel has stepped up increasing the settlements in Palestine, which has now reached a half million Israels.  This has made a two state solution, the obvious compromise,  historically obsolete.

@ A Khokar

Do you get enough bran in your diet?

Folktruther, November 29 at 12:13 pm #

**************************************

You seriously need help.  I thought for once you were able to look at a situation without bias and either analyze it or admit you couldn’t without more facts.

This is nothing but the ravings of a true anti-semite.  It it straight out of “Mein Kampf” that Jews are responsible for all the ills in the world and will commit ANY atrocity even if it threatens their own existence for a short-term gain.

Did you get this line of crap off a white-supremacist web site or an extremist middle-eastern one?  Only a truly sick person would argue that Israel is trying to foment nuclear war between Pakistan and India, just so it could use nuclear weapons to commit genocide.

I’ll say it again: You need help, badly.

@ ITH

Yes, I suspect British military intelligence along with the CIA and the Mossad were able to infiltrate and control a radical Moslem group for the purpose of chaos creation. It has that same phony quality of 9-11. I notice it is just in time for Brzezinski’s errand boy, Obama, to formulate a military solution to devastate Pakistan.

A Khokar may well be right.  This may be a new 9/11 for India, in the economic capital of India as 9/11 was in the US, to create increased pressure or even a war between India and Pakistan.  Bush stated his solidarity with India against Muslim Terrorists, which includes anyone opposing US or Zionist
imperialism.

The US helped instigate and prolong the Iraq-Iran war, with Kissinger stating publically that he hoped they killed each other.  This could be the same kind of thing, with the curious exception that Israeli owned Chabad house was involved.

Israel has increased the rate of settlers in Palestinian lands, which has now reached a half milliion.  Its starving of the Gazan population, half of whom are children, is still continuing.  It is conceivable that Mossad is also active in India. 

A nuclear war between India and Pakistan would legitimate Isreal’s use of its nuclear arsenal, and under other distractions might effect the ‘ethnic cleansing’ of the Palestinians.  By the current Israeli leaders who state publically they are for a two state solution.

Bush has recently increased the nuclear might of India, ostensibly to be used as a defense against China.  He may be trying to lock Obiden into a new quagmire from which he can’t easly withdraw politically.  This would then influence Obama to continue promoting unfinished Bushite policies.

(Continuation of last post-Pakistan being Zeroed in)

Lord West of Spithead, the UK Home Office Security Minister also spoke recently of a “huge threat”; saying, “There is another great plot building up again and we are monitoring this.” Very conveniently there has been a direct implication staged in Mumbai drama that seven out of ten Terrorist who under took the attack are British-Pakistani Muslims from Northern England specifically from area like Bradford and Leeds. The news papers are full of headlines with the claims that a number of young British Muslims with roots in Pakistan have been responsible for terrorist attacks, both in Britain and abroad.

A finally of war on terrorism seems to approaching fast… . This time, US may NOT ask the country like Pakistan;…”are you with us or against us” because the target this time is Pakistan itself.

Pakistan is being Zeroed in

The latest mellow drama of Mumbai massacre ends with a note that it is an act of some highly trained and skilled professionals; the exterminators that only and only Pakistan can produce. The people who could show such a proficient command, zeal and courage in their execution of task, especially the show of their endurance and ability to win and put up a fight for a cause that they believe in till their last bullet and their last breath. Is this just some sarcastic back handed compliment or a trap being set once again to blame Pakistan for another 9/11?

While the entire Pak Army and its command is concentrating on its reek miasma of FATA to clear some pockets infested with home grown traitors like Tehrik e Taliban (TTP is a cancer induced by CIA to work as mercenary); In which Pakistan believes that prevalent instability created by TTP especially in FATA area amounts to softening up of future battle grounds for US lead forces and their planned incursion to quell terror in side Pakistan. But this is known fact that recent successes of Pak Army in their mission in FATA have not gone well with U.S.

After the humiliating and provoking drone attacks to instigate the locals; now the blame game to draw in Pakistan in Mumbai massacre, amounts to making the Pakistan eastern borders volatile inducing a perforce thinning out of Pak Armed forces from FATA area and to tend n divert the Pak armed forces attention toward the relatively calm eastern borders with India. Mumbai mellow drama is prelude to escalate the clashes on Pak eastern borders with India, where invariably India will move her forces up on the borders to threaten Pakistan’s security.

History shows that U.S and western forces are the warriors of depleted and forsaken lands and may not advance into the lands, where they may face any potent resistance. In second Gulf war US lead forces did not move in Iraq till Mr Han Blix, Chief UN weapon Inspector had not categorically confirmed that there were no scud missiles left or any weapon of mass destruction found in Iraq. With the escalated situation on Pakistan eastern borders the western border will obviously have a reduced presence of Pak Army. Beefing up and increase of vigilante on Eastern border will make the western frontier more vulnerable.
 
Last night. I came across a picture of New York Times, Photo gallery with a caption which speak volumes to grasp an insight of US forces future plans as well as exercise of their right to carry out attack and engage selected targets in side Pakistan at their will. The Caption says: “Pakistani tanks firing toward militant positions in the village of Sabagai, in the Bajaur tribal region on the Afghanistan border. Pakistan is battling attacks by militants from Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Most of them are based in the rugged and lawless tribal region next to Afghanistan, where American and NATO forces are fighting an increasingly tenacious Islamist insurgency.” The last sentence is most intriguing giving an insight of U.S future plans to engage the target at their whims and will.

On the other hand once again the western media has started with vindictive warnings that Al Qaeda plans for new terrorist attack on US shores are accelerating: Iran is recruiting homicide bombers to attack the US. Britain is becoming a staging area for al Qaeda. Arab press is reporting that Osama Bin Laden was planning an attack that would dwarf 9/11. These are all headlines from the last few weeks. Times of London had previously claimed that both British and US Homeland security have warned President-elect Barack Obama that there is a HUGE threat of a spectacular Al Qaeda attack during the U. S. Presidential transition.

(Please Continue on the next page)

By Inherit The Wind, November 28 at 12:50 pm #

Fadel,

“You are reaching, stretching credibility to the breaking point.  And you are missing the obvious.
The terrorists claim to Muslim.”
================================
Remember, Inherit, that in my post to which you’re responding here, I clearly said that what I was saying is a matter of speculation and that my speculation is as good or bad as yours or any other person. That’s so, because we are not insiders, and possibly after months and years people like us will never know the truth about what happened in 9/11 and what happened recently in India.

Take, for example, the 9/11 terrorist attack! Because we never learned the truth from a credible and serious investigation, I have only speculation to go by, and my gut feeling about that event is that it was an inside job. And as you are well aware, I am not alone about this hypothesis; there are at least 30% of world population, including scientists and serious scholars who hold this opinion/speculation/hypothesis- call it whatever you wish!

And this leads me to the refutation of your claim that it’s inconceivable that a “wise intelligence agency doesn’t run false flag operations in a friendly country.” Fulktruther above has already taken issue with your statement and has said that the number of false flag operations that can be documented are to many to list.

Let me remind you again of the King David Hotel terrorist attack of 22 July, 1946, to mention one concrete example that you might relate to. In that attack the Jewish terrorists wore Arabic garbs and killed Arabs, British and Jews.

Moreover, at least in the history of the Zionist movement I have read- since I was not an eyewitness- that there were other recorded incidents of Jewish terrorists attacking and burning Jewish Synagogues in Yemen, Morocco and Egypt to frighten Jews and force them to migrate to Palestine.

The point here is that, if we have recorded incidents of false flag operations against one’s own people and coreligionists, including recent operations among Muslims themselves in Iraq, how can you claim that it’s inconceivable that intelligent agencies would not carry false flag operations in friendly countries.

Finally, I am sure you know that Israel has a little army of paid or forced sell-out Palestinians and other Arabs who do half of the dirty work of Israel’s Mossad. We have even records of some Arab rulers like the late King Husain of Jordan and his successor son Abdullah, and I am sure also Husni Mubarak and Mahmoud Abbas, who were / are on the payroll of the CIA and by extension on the Mossad’s payroll, or in exchange for services to protect them from their own people and to prolong their tyrannical rule!!!!!

Oh, no, Inherit, I want to know the truth, whatever it is and whoever says it, it doesn’t hurt at all to agree with you when you are right.

However it turns out that you are wrong, as I was, and Fadel was closer to the truth.  That a “wise intelligence agancy” (whatever that is) doesn’t run false flag operations in a frendly country would eliminate all the major intelligence agencies in the world. See for example THE WAR ON TRUTH by Ahmed, a British think tank director.

US false flag operations documented in Europe, such as operation Gladio, and others for which there are evidence throughout the world are too numerous to list.

Including conceivably the current one in India.  The NYTimes, the Zionist American paper,  just ran a front page article portraying how Idia is just like Israel, being attacked by Muslims.  And how Jews should identify with India.

Fadel’s instincts in this regard appear to be better than mine.  As for yours… well, your wife loves you, be happy with that.

Bad sportsmanship…A ruthless minority of people seems to have forgotten certain good old fashion virtues. They just can’t stand to seeing the other fellow win. If these people would just play the game they’d get a lot more out of life.

By Inherit The Wind, November

In fact the mines of Congo are the major root of the horrendous war in that region that has killed 5 million people.

______________________________________________

Possibly, but most of the people that are the object of my theory—don’t know that, the gold may only be worth a Billion $$$, and not say 700 billion $$$.

Greed and fear,  can make people “perceive” things that are not true, even if your statistical facts are correct.

And, for some Nazi’s the war never ended; they are still at war. So— they continue the destruction secretly, with whatever funds are left.

They don’t care about being public—because they are about to die from old age, anyway.

In any case, it is just a theory; and,  I doubt anyone in the CIA ever even looked into the theory ever.

Anar-peace, November 28 at 6:47 pm #

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gold
******************************************

I have bad news for you: Wikipedia is not an authority.  Notice that the amounts of gold were in dollars, not ounces? Are those 1940-45 dollars or today’s dollars, because if it’s today’s, well, we are spending a lot more than ALL the “nazi gold” every week in Iraq.

There are lots more holes I could poke in the article—like how many ounces of gold have been produced in South Africa, Central Africa, Russia, China, Canada, Mexico and the US since 1945?  It would easily and massively dwarf the entire supposed nazi stock.  In fact the mines of Congo are the major root of the horrendous war in that region that has killed 5 million people.

I am no Asian expert; but my guess is it has to do with Nazi Gold, and Republicans in the USA. Most wars in the USA have been covert; with the exception of Bush, so they are going back to the pre-Bush days.

All the old Nazis are dead from old age or about to die; so they are competing with one another to get the pot of gold treasures; probably in the billions, especially with the price of gold going up.

It is unfortunate we don’t have a truly progressive/liberal form of government.

JFK,  probably—wanted to start hunting them down, but they (Republican/Nazis)  had him assassinated, more then likely.

_______________________

Nazi gold
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gold

Folktruther, November 28 at 4:34 pm #

But who knows.  The reason it is important is that there appears to be a lot of terrorist incidents around the world and there is evidence that a lot of them are false flag operations by intelligence agencies.  To mobilize public feeling against Muslims. That is always a future threat in the US.
***************************************

LOL!  Boy, that really must hurt to say that, Folk (but thanks).

I find it totally counter-intuitive for a wise intelligence service to run a false-flag operation in a friendly nation.  The risk of discovery is too great and discovery means turning a friendly nation into an unfriendly one overnight.

Fadel, I hate to agree with Inherit but, given our lack of basic information, he appears to be analyzing this terroist incident realistically.  Your point about American, British and Zionist targets is well taken, but at this point it is hard to understand why.

It is conceivable, I suppose, that the CIA could have manipulated a local group to attack Indian symbols of power to mobilize public opinion to blame Pakistan, exerting more pressure to attack Pushtan groups.  But Israel?  The Mossad?

And we don’t know yet that this is directly related to the Kashmir war.  It would appear to be counterproductive to the Muslem position.

But who knows.  The reason it is important is that there appears to be a lot of terrorist incidents around the world and there is evidence that a lot of them are false flag operations by intelligence agencies.  To mobilize public feeling against Muslims. That is always a future threat in the US.

Just a bit of perspective: a million Muslims are dead in Iraq and five million are now refugees living in terrible circumstances in other countries around Iraq. We don’t know how many Muslims are dead in Afghanistan because they don’t keep those figures. The people these attackers were looking for were British and American also Australian and Israeli. Hindus would not be interested in those people because these are the nations which invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and still occupy those nations and have killed all those Muslims. The most pressing reason for these attacks is that America is now attacking Pakistan, sending drones and firing missiles and killing many civilians. The attackers in Mumbai are obviously ISI (Pakistani secret service). They carried out the attacks with military precision and are clearly disciplined and trained fighters. One witness described one of these western dressed young men shooting some people and then calmly walking gun in hand into another hotel to join the group of attackers inside. This was a well-planned professional attack and the targets were not random but carefully chosen. I believe the Pakistani government when they say they knew nothing about these attacks. The new government has no control over ISI or ISI’s creation, the Taliban.

Fadel…

Oh come on, judging by your posts you’re just a closet militant.  If you notice I never use the word “terrorist” as a descriptive because I firmly believe that one person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.  So in that regard some nations are in a war so to speak and in war the objective is to quickly and decisively destroy the enemy.  Failure to do so just prolongs the attrition.  Vanquish the enemy and you obtain several years of a respite and perhaps achieve a political solution.

Fadel,
You are reaching, stretching credibility to the breaking point.  And you are missing the obvious.
The terrorists claim to Muslim.
The terrorists demanded to know who were British or American.
The terrorists attacked a fairly minor Jewish outpost of the Lubavich Chabad which was between the two big hotels. Why, if that was not part of their plan for a lot of press? When the lead rabbi is just a kid (as in barely into his early 20’s) it’s not a major center.  So clearly they intended it for added coverage.
Early information is that this was planned for 6 months.

Why is the coverage of the 5 deaths in the Jewish Center so big? I don’t know other than that the commando op to retake it was rather theatric—vid of commandos dangling from helicopters.

I work with many Indians, some for many, many years and I am grateful they are all safely back from India—I just worry on Monday that one of them will have lost a loved one—this happened after everyone went home for Thanksgiving.

As for Gaza, you may be amazed but I, too, think Israel is doing a terrible thing.  Besides the tunnels into Egypt now have power lines and even gas mains running through them.  They are so sophisticated it’s hard to imagine the Israeli blockade actually being effective.  But to spend 6 months planning this, in India, with whom they have good relations as a…DIVERSION????  That’s just outlandishly far-fetched.  It would also be moronic.

By Blackspeare, November 28 at 12:22 pm #

“This may be the time for a few tactical nukes to take out the militant infrastructure and serve notice!  What’s the sense of having these weapons and not using them?  Once these weapons are used the next time will be much easier.”
====================
I am amazed at how sick people like you, Blackspeare, would openly suggest to use nukes to solve complex problems!

Well, if this is your logic, is it legitimate that a minor nuclear entity should rush to take out the militant infrastructure of the two entities that have the most dangerous arsenals of these weapons: the USA and Israel?!

Though I don’t have the stomach to use any kind of weapon to get rid of crazy and dangerous animals like you, Blackheart, I certainly feel very insecure to have to share this planet with you! Now, I understand why insecure people would want to kill and destroy before they’re killed and destroyed!

In a world where terrorism has become a way of life to the point that certain entities, like the USA and Israel, where founded on the basis of terrorism, and in a world where terrorism has become the weapon of choice of the poor, the oppressed, and the aggrieved, we must not overlook the responsibility that unjust governments bear in securing their symbols of the political, military and commercial power!

Therefore, in the case of the Mumbai terrorist attacks, and given the fact that India has close to a hundred groups that consider the government its enemy, the Indian government bears a major responsibility in failing to protect such two big symbols of the country’s economic power as these two luxury and huge hotels were meant to be.

A few observations.  While the killing of the hostages at the Nariman-Chabad House is reprehensible——what the Hell is a Jewish group doing in a Hindu/Muslim environment.  It epitomizes the old cliché, “When you look for trouble, you usually find it!”  Also, brings to mind the Christian influx into Lebanon, which eventually brought much strife and instability to that country as each religion sought domination. 

Getting back to Mumbai——judging by the scope, coordination, and sophistication of this guerrilla attack it is obvious they had money, training and the cooperation of a state whether overt or covert.  Just to offer an opinion, my money is on the tribal areas of Western Pakistan where the Taliban have a strong presence with some influence from al-Queda.  This no doubt will give the US impetus and the rationale to conduct further military operations in this area.  This may be the time for a few tactical nukes to take out the militant infrastructure and serve notice!  What’s the sense of having these weapons and not using them?  Once these weapons are used the next time will be much easier.

By Folktruther, November 28 at 9:46 am #

“I don’t see what Zionism has to do with it either.”
===================================
Well, Folktruther, it’s all a matter of speculation and your speculation is as good as mine and that of Inherint The Wind.

However, to further support my speculation, and since the attacks are most likely related to the Kashmir conflict, I would also question why the attackers would include in their plans attacking a small Jewish center that has nothing to do with the symbols of capitalism or economic power associated with the two luxury hotels that were the focus of the terrorist attacks!

And as the news of the attacks are being concluded with focusing on the Jewish center and the few tragic deaths that took place there, one cannot escape the conclusion that whoever is behind these attacks, has deliberately included a Jewish-Zionist dimension to them.

Though I don’t want to dwell on the details of how would Zionist Israel benefit politically and internationally from this tragic event, I would just limit myself to what Israel has been doing for several weeks now by starving the Palestinians in Gaza through their closure of the entrances to the area and the United Nations’ call on Israel to remove its blockade of the entrances, and Israel’s refusal to respond to all international calls. At the minimum, Israel will benefit by drawing attention away from its economic terrorism to starve the people of Gaza, and in the history of Zionism small collateral damage is tolerated in the service of greater benefit! Remember the historical terrorist attack on King David Hotel, and how many Jews were killed?!

As I write this piece all the news on CNN and MSNBC are focusing on the tragic death of five Jews at that Jewish center in Mumbai as if this was the whole focus of the operation and the major loss of life!

I am tired of the “this is so well organized” thing. Killing unarmed people doesn’t take brains. Most people cave into situations like this, Led to the slaughter, so to speak. Easy pickings for brainwashed children, Its ALL so sad.

I don’t see what Zionism has to do with it either.  Possibly the CIA wanted to put more pressure on Pakistan by mobilizing Indian public feeling against her, but there is no evidence that this is so, at least so far.  The thing is, it was so well organized that an intelligence agency might be involved, but which one?  Or ones?  Maybe more evidence will emerge after a time.

Fadel Abdallah, November 28 at 8:02 am #

Remember Joe Biden’s statement towards the end of the presidential campaign, when he said something to the extend that Barack Obama will soon be tested by an international crises! Joe Biden is known to be well-connected to Zionism to the point that he was heard saying that “we are all Zionists!”
****************************************

Here’s where I disagree.  It doesn’t make sense—neither the US nor Israel gain by de-stabilizing India. India is the balance to Pakistan’s nuclear force—and Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with The Bomb. So why would either want Pakistan’s main deterrent destabilized?  Doesn’t make sense. Don’t just have a knee-jerk reaction—analyze potential motives.

IF it’s a false flag, it’s more likely to be Indian Hindu extremists trying to get the Hindus to massacre the Muslims, i.e., it’s internal to India.

Or they simply could be a bunch as twisted as Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the monsters of the Murrah building in Ok. City. (over 165 dead).

India originally accused Pakistan, but the Pakistanis are providing high-level intelligence to try to help.  Again, what could Pakistan gain from such an event?

By Folktruther, November 27 at 9:17 pm #

“If its a false flag operation, what’s its point and who instigated it?”
======================
Folktruther, though it’s still early to judge the nature of the Mumbai attacks, my gut feelings tells me it’s most likely a false flag operation.

Who instigated it?! Always look for the usual players! U.S. outgoing political-military-industrial complex in collaboration with elements of the Pakistani intelligence agency and Israel’s Mossad!

Remember Joe Biden’s statement towards the end of the presidential campaign, when he said something to the extend that Barack Obama will soon be tested by an international crises! Joe Biden is known to be well-connected to Zionism to the point that he was heard saying that “we are all Zionists!”

Thank you Inherit The Wind for agreeing with me this time though you admittedly don’t agree with me on much!

And thank you Folktruther for agreeing with Inherit The Wind though you are both mostly on the extreme opposites on the major issues. I do appreciate your deep sense of justice, Folktruther, and I appreciate the thought and perspective affinity we share, which I follow closely though I don’t express it often in writing.

Yesterday, CNN interviewed Deepak Chopra, the well-known medical doctor, writer and philosopher of Indian origin and a pioneer in the New Thought Movement. The interviewer was gearing his questions hoping that Chopra would lash out against Islam and Muslims. However, the CNN interviewer got a shock as Chopra pointed out that Islam and Muslims, as one fourth of humanity, have been victims of American and Western state-sponsored terrorism as well as their double-standards and hypocritical policies of arming and inciting both parties to many geopolitical conflicts. He pointed to the well-founded Muslim grievances which go unheard and lead to frustration and encourage extremism and terrorism. 

The CNN interviewer was shocked and embarrassed to hear such clear truths from Chopra, who is certainly not a Muslim, that he rushed to cut the interview short!

The first words out of the media were Alkieda the second were Pakistan. Think about that. The corporate world is all connected and the aim is Fascism. Let’s Wake Up Together!!!

namer
be Honest , Have you felt sympathy for the thousands of Afghans who are put in bodybags almost weekly by Nato Forces ?  A missile causes horrific deaths too . but hey because these deaths are used by US forces and Nato forces it is ok . i have seen tiny little bodybags and i have seen women with long hair and colorful dresses before being put in a bodybag and it was very sad .

i do not support terrorism and i do think the terrorists deserve a severe punishment whoever they are , and i wonder which government is behind them , i know kashmiri groups who are fighting for their independence say the international community failed them and the UN abandonned them at the mercy of the ruthless indian army . i do hope India allows them to determine their future instead of india occupying their land . the UN is failing big time to help the khasmiris , the chechens and the Palestinians .

i was surprised to find this happened in india and i was not aware of it , i watch CNN BBC and Sky and they have not mentioned it , or they may but not repeated it over and over and over until i see it . weird isnt ?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24709000-12335,00.html

A blogger asks the following question , why does one of the terrorist wears around his wrist a red string called Kalava . Muslims dont wear this string only Hindus (or some Kabbala followers do ) .

http://luqmaninbmore.blogspot.com/2008/11/pictures-from-mumbai-attack.html

Good post,Inherit, you Zionist lout.  There is something that doesn’t smell right about these India attacks.  Who benefits from them?  Certainly Pakistan doesn’t.  If its a false flag operation, what’s its point and who instigated it?

It was clearly well organized, but for what purpose?  As Inherit says, blaming Islam for it is absurd.

While I don’t agree with Fadel on much, on this I do agree: To blame the billion or so Muslims in the world for the acts of this group is evil and wrong.  Right now India is blaming Pakistan. But I cannot imagine how the Pakistani government could possibly expect such an attack to further Pakistani national security.

Is Al Qaeda behind it?  There’s no evidence other than circumstantial—this attack was well-planned and coordinated and made HUGE splash on world news.  Also, Al Qaeda is still hiding in and around the Afghan/Pakistan border, so proximity is there.  But that’s just circumstantial.

The other thing is India is a big, big country. Its Muslim population is, I believe, second only to Indonesia—bigger than Pakistan’s, yet is still only about 15%, most of the rest being Hindu.  An attack like this can set off pogroms…so what is its purpose?  That’s the real question.

What if the 800+million Hindus have a racist tantrum? There will be a genocide of hideous proportions.  Surely they saw that as a possibility—why would that be their goal?  Does anybody outside of a Tom Clancy villain REALLY want that to begin, thinking it will bring the whole Islamic world down on India?

Or did they not see that brutal reprisals against the people they purport to want to help undermine their so-called mission?

In any case, blaming all Muslims for these monsters’ act is like blaming all Christians for the acts of Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph.  Let’s not forget that McVeigh and Nichols killed more innocent people with their one car bomb in Oklahoma City than this massive concerted attack has killed in Mumbai.

Fadel knows I rarely agree with him.  But I, too, am disgusted at cheering for the deaths of these killers, solely because they claim to be Muslim.  From what little I know of Islam, I expect the Prophet would condemn them.

“And my sympathy grows with every body bag these Muslims have filled…..............”
====================
You rotten begot! And does your sympathy go out for the large number of Muslims who might be among the victims of this very attack as was the number of Muslims who were also killed on the 9/11 attacks?!

And does your sympathy go out to the thousands of Palestinians, Pakistanis, Iraqis and Afghans whom you helped kill with your taxpayer’s money, silence and bigotry that has been going on for decades?! And while you’re displaying your ignorance, hypocrisy, and bigotry your people are starving the Palestinians to death in Gaza?! If the victims of this attack were able to speak and knew the bigotry that motivates you to post such instigating hate, I am sure they will reject your empty words as being the ultimate hypocrisy and evil oportunism?!

from the article: Two men who claimed to be among the gunmen called local television stations, demanding to speak with the government and complaining about the treatment of Muslims in India and about Kashmir, the disputed territory over which India and Pakistan have fought two wars.

And my sympathy grows with every body bag these Muslims have filled…..............