Moe, I think I’m a pretty good test case for a Republican on this, as my best friend in the world (other than my wife) is an employee of Ford Motor Co.

The fact is that there comes a time when you no longer do your drug-addict brother-in-law a favor by giving him money, unless he gets help.  We’ve reached that point with the auto industry.  You argue that they’d have been better served if we’d insisted on tougher CAFE standards; I understand the argument, but I disagree.  They’ve lost money on the Escorts, Focuses, Cavaliers, Aveos, etc.  The problem is not with the fuel economy of the cars they’ve sold; it is those legacy costs.

The thing is that it’s easier to cover a couple grand of retirement benefits and excess labor costs (costs above and beyond the costs of the competition) in a $30,000 car than in a $12,000 car.  So while Toyota and Hyundai could make a killing selling those little cars, Ford and Chevy lost money on every one.  The more they built, the more money they lost.  Thus, tougher CAFE standards meant more money lost, not more profit.

So the problem is the legacy costs—a HUGE present value liability.  The only way the Big 2.5 (or maybe Big 2, or Big 1 by the time the smoke clears) can return to viability is to cut those legacy costs.  It sucks—remember, this is my best friend I’m thinking of when I say this—but they’re going to have to negotiate less generous benefits, both for current and retired employees.  The alternative is that they go belly up, and instead of a worse deal all those people have NO deal.

Since the Union will not renegotiate voluntarily (which is their right), the car companies are going to have to file for Ch 11.  The feds should set out a set of criteria under which money can be lent, and tell how much money they will loan, should the car companies negotiate viable deals.  But they can’t just start throwing billions of dollars at the Big 3 until they get some help with their problem.

And they definitely need to lose those rocket scientists who thought it’d be a good idea to take private jets to D.C. to ask for handouts.  What maroons.

Let’s see what backstabber’s republicans really are when it suits them. The auto industry has had the protection and support of the republican party for the last 30 yrs. Every time the democrats or anyone else tried to impose fuel efficiency, alternative fuels or anything to make US autos more efficient and relevant the republicans took their side and squelched any attempts to improve production. They then went to help the oil industry even though they needed no help.

Now that they have lost all political support and are about to pass into irrelevance, they turn against their old friends only because any help to them would benefit democrats in their eyes. These are the last nails into the coffin of the republican party.

>>“Congress could have given the 90% of Americans $1m and it would have worked out cheaper… LET US CONTINUE TO BANG OUR COLLECTIVE HEADS ON THE WALL AS THE “AVERAGE AMERICAN” ONCE AGAIN CONTINUES TO PICK UP THE TAB!!!!!

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you mean $1000 per person ($1M per person would be $270 Trillion, somewhat more than $700 Billion).  At $1000 per head, that’s almost exactly what last summer’s stimulus package did.  So first thing is that “we” already got “ours” (and no, I’m not a banker or CEO; I’m a computer programmer, near the bottom of the food chain in the company I work for).

As to “average Americans” picking up the tab—the average American has been taken care of by those rich folks you hate so much for years.  Almost 40% of Americans don’t pay a DIME in income taxes; the next @ pays only about 20% of total taxes.  That 90% everyone reviles so much (and no, I’m very, very far away from that kind of money) pay the vast majority of the income taxes, including the taxes that will result from all the bailouts.  So really, they are borrowing the money from themselves, and will pay it back to themselves.

As to bailing out the car companies, I’m not virulently anti-union (though I am mildly so); but Detroit made promises it can’t keep.  This agreement between private parties is horrible for the victims; but they’re not victims of the U.S. taxpayer.  Detroit is going to have to negotiate a settlement that makes them solvent, or there’s no point bailing them out—they’ll just be broke again in a couple of years.

It is in everyone’s interest for the big 3 to strike deals that are as fair as they can manage.  Any current management that was party to making the old deals needs to go out the door—and possibly to the pokey.  Then, when there’s a good chance of them surviving with some help, we should lend them the money.

NO MORE bailouts, loans or other assistance for Detroit. It is time for the OIL COMPANIES to step up to the plate and bail out their co-dependent and symbiotic brethern, the Detroit auto manufacturers. They can use the obscene and excessive profits gained largely at the expense of the taxpayers. Duh? How obvious can it be?

Shelby may be a capitalist (of the ‘malafactors of great wealth’ type) but he sure as heck does not know anything about politics (except local).  If the loans to the auto industry fail, the Republicans will have engenered the anomity of anyone remotely associated with the auto industry for generations.

The philosophy of unregulated capitalism produces horrific conditions for employees and a sort of business feudal society, see the late and early 19th century societies America and england respectively.

Over the generations labor and management have worked out a carefully crafted set of laws to prevent returning to the corporate abuse of labor.

Shelby, Kyl and others want to GM et al to shed these laws and the obligations associated with them so the auto companies can be free to compete.  Well this is also union busting and should be thought of as such.

There is more but I am tired.

Socializing risk while privatizing profit!  It’s the American Way!!

Al you “big picture” fake capitalists, stop your pathetic whining. I didn’t hear anyone talking about letting Wall St. go bankrupt, when that’s exactly what should have happened!  Don’t you idiots see that this is in part a not so veiled attack on organized labor. 

You might think with your little desk pusher jobs that organized labor is a dirty word but what the hell do you think industry does, what do you call the Chamber of Commerce, the Lobbyists, and the plethora of trade and manufacturing associations you dipshits? Why shouldn’t labor organize as a counterweight to capital organizing? When the cut throat capitalists continue pressing their foot on your wimpy necks, you might just want to organize too.

Last I check AIG, Shearson, and the rest of the pimp banksters on Wall St. didn’t produce any tanks or humvees, you ignorant asses will be crying in your cheap wine, when the manufacturing base necessary for a war footing is gone. What’s your plan, to outsource it to Georgia?

Reorganize the auto industry in a way that benefits the economy, workers and environment.  Did you rocket scientists know that Fed Reserve has “secretly” lent $2 Trillion to the Banksters with no strings?  Didn’t think so you wannabe, fake captains of nothing.

I think that the auto industry’s problems do not rest with their cost structure (pension obligations, debt, etc.) as has been discussed in the media.  Their problems lie with their revenue structure (i.e., none).  No amount of bankruptcy (11 or 7) or low interest loans will get them to design and build vehicles that consumers want to buy.  These companies (probably in kahoots with Big Oil) have continually resisted gas mileage and safety innovations and have even avoided selling to US consumers effecient models that sell well overseas.  They have even been one of the proponents of the Bush Administration’s opposition to California’s mileage reform bill.

I remember in 1977 my mother drove us around in a beat up Datsun (!) that got 30 miles per gallon.  It’s a shame (and criminal) that the auto companies are touting 30 MPH cars as the state of the art 30 years later…

Now, it does seem a little unfair to “bailout” the banking industry, which made similarly bad leadership and management decisions, but not the auto industry.  I say, no special bailouts to any industry.  Maybe (secured) loan programs and infrastructure-based economic stimulus programs, but we are going down a really slippery slope when we spend money we don’t have to invest in some of the worst investments in the market.  Just doesn’t make business or social justice sense…

Why are virtually all the Republicans speaking against the bailout are from the South and why are they heaping substantial blame on the UAW, which has given substantial concessions over the years to keep the Big Three viable. Simple! They represent right to work states with foreign, non union auto manufacturing plants and would be happy to see Michigan substantially destroyed economically, which would also drive down the wages of the UAW to the level of those in their States.
There is no recognition that the failure of the Big Three will ripple through the entire economy like a tsunami and we can have our military vehicles built by foreign owned companies. As in the mid nineteenth century, it’s region first unified country last.

The industrial base in the US has been decimated by the financial class, and now they want to drive a stake through its heart, and the citizenry is cheering them on?

In the US, only the bankers get a bailout.  Of course the weapon makers don’t need one.  The rest of us ...... tough !

It is beyond me, way beyond me.