KDelphi:

“[Obama’s] AIPAC speech, and people are talking about Hillary’s foreign hawkishness?...I guess that I am pointing out the “cognitive dissonance” that seems to be occurring (and was during the primary and campaign) that Obama is some kind of ‘liberal.’
Clinton fits right in with what he wants to do…voting in a conservative Dem, then pretending that his foreign policy claims were much different. They never were. If people would have listened. People heard what they wanted to hear.”

Hear, hear!!  Well said!

Folk—I see what you are saying…but I just dont see Hillary Clinton as much worse, nor better, than any of PE Obama’s other sppointments and/or advisors…Emanuel? Summers? ( gawd, i hope not)Brzenzski? (cant spell it, cant look it up!!lol).

The AIPAC speech, and people are talking about Hillary;s foreign hawkishness? I just dont think Obama, would have great variance with their opinions , or, he would not be appointing them.

I guess that I am pointing out the “cognitive dissonance” that seems to be occurring (and , was during the primary and campaign) that Obama is some kind of “liberal”.

Clinton fits right in with what he wants to do.—picking on her is picking at the root of the Dem Party—-voting in a conservative Dem, then, pretending that his foreign policy claims were much different. They never were. If people would have listened. People heard what they wanted to hear.

Thanks for mentioning not feeling good. I shouldnt say it, anyway, I suppose. Guess I’ll have to make the snow-filled trek up to Cleveland Clinic again, to see an indigent doctor, and refuse to let him work on me because he/she doesnt know what the f they are doing. Sigh…we need universal heatlh care, people. Not Daschle’s plan..DONT say we cant afford it (or anything else) Dems, unless it would cost more than $850 billion…

Or I could take opiates—they wil pay for those, even at $350 a month! But, then I think even less straight then I do now…

I’m sorry you don’t feel well, KDelphi.  The reason that Clinton is such a bad appointment is that she is being appointed as Sec of State to offset the Pentgon, now the major determenant of US foriegn policy.  If the chief peace and diplomatic agent is pro-war, there is no counterweight to the Pentagon.

This insistence on what a “hawk” Hilary Clinton is, is a little absurd , in light of PE Obama’s speech at AIPAC—dont you think?

No, I am not some PUMA—I voted Hillary, in teh primary, I wanted heatlh care for everyone…not that she wouldve provided it either. And Daschle’s wife is the biggest insurance lobbyist in the WORLD!! (dont ask for stats—I dont feel good)

WHY do people insist that PE Obama intends to   bring peace? Just last night, I heard MSNBC (someone who lives here watches it), David Gregory say, “Peace advocates are concerned about Obama’s appts…he promised to stop the war and we have a clip”....teh clip has Obama, during the primary campaign, saying,“It is time to bring diplomacy and to talk about withdrawing troops from Iraq…”

WHY do people not LISTEN to what he is SAYING???

He does this over and opver. But, if constituensts refuse to “hear”, it is difficult to blame him!

“50 million peopel in the US do not have health care , and many are working…” (HE WIL BRING UNIVERSAL CARE right? Wha…????)

BTW—The Israelis have never offered to give Palestine a damn thing, they are trying to starve them out, and, they are behind alot of the trouble the uS has in the MIddle East.

It is like Osama bin Laden said, “If I hated your for your freedom , why wouldnt i attack Sweden?”.

“Listening to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda is horrible”? Well, evidently the MSM think Obama should ! The running and re-running of the tape by al Zawahri—-“he called him a house negro”!! Yes, and, given his rant about Malcolm X and others, PE Obama should consider it a clear compliment.

How would you feel if they had complimented him?Everyone prefers PE Obama’s policies to Malcolm X’s, Bill Ayers former ones(“He hardly knew Ayers!!”),Bobby Rush’a (oh, sorry, he beat Obama)and Jesse Jacksons’ (he never came close), right?

It seems that only a conservative Af Am can win…

At least they didnt call him a SOCIALIST again!

November 18, 2008

No Signs of Change in Obama’s Middle East Policies
The Irresponsibility of Appointing Hillary Clinton Secretary of State

By BILL and KATHLEEN CHRISTISON

“In 2005 Hillary Clinton stood in Palestine and praised the apartheid wall that the government of Israel was building with large amounts of U.S. aid in furtherance of the Zionist goal of destroying one of the world’s peoples—the Palestinians.  This is the wall that the United Nations’ World Court has declared contrary to international law.  And this is just one example of Hillary Clinton’s total support for all of Israel’s policies to oppress and eventually expel whatever elements of the Palestinian population remain west of the Jordan River.

On the evening of November 14, 2008, we sent a message to Barack Obama’s transition website urging him not to name Mrs. Clinton as his secretary of state.  The text of our message said:

  “Appointing Hillary Clinton secretary of state would be utterly disastrous.  Combined with the earlier appointment of Rahm Emanuel, it would be seen by all Palestinians, all Arabs, all Muslims, and many others around the world as the ultimate insult, eliminating any hope of a just resolution of the Palestinian situation during the presidency of Barack Obama.  It would reduce any good will toward Obama that has built up among Muslims in recent months and would spell finis to hopes for an end of the global hatred that continues to grow against America and its allies.  More and more, the “War on Terror” would become a never-ending part of our existence and over time would introduce further limitations of our domestic liberties and of living standards everywhere in the world.

  “In desperation, we beg you PLEASE STOP THESE ABOMINATIONS NOW.

  “Sincerely,

  “Bill and Kathleen Christison”

We hope others will join us in this effort to bring about the beginning of real change, rather than meaningless promises of change, in U.S. foreign policies.  You can do this by going to http://www.change.gov, then clicking on “about,” then on “contact” and, when asked in what category your message should be put, choose “agenda.”  Say anything in your message that you yourself want to say.”

(Bill and Kathleen Christison are ashamed to say that years ago they were both analysts with the CIA.  In recent years Bill has written numerous articles on U.S. foreign policies, while Kathleen for over 30 years has written on Middle East Affairs.  She is the author of two books on Palestinians and U.S. policy on Palestine-Israel.  Bill and Kathleen visit Palestine frequently and are joint authors of a book, forthcoming in mid-2009 from Pluto Press, on the Israeli occupation and its impact on Palestinians, with over 50 of their photographs.)

http://www.counterpunch.org/christison11182008.html

Folktruther:

You know, you are about as much “folk” and “truth” as FOX news is “fair” and “balanced.”

As I noted, you do not know who I am or what I have done with respect to this issue.  And I do not owe you, or anyone, an explanation.  Suffice to say that, as I noted, you are about as far from the mark as it is possible to be.

But feel free to keep those cards and letters coming…LOL.

Peace.

Maani, when Spiritgirl stated that the Israels were brutalizing the Palestiinians, you suggested that this was equivilent to demanding that America be given back to the Indians.  This at a time when Israel was literally starving a population of a million and a half people.  None of the TD Zionists called for lifting the blockade, you among them.

The blockade itself occurred after the election of Obamano doubt with his implicit or explicit consent.  The Israeli’s prevented any foreign media from entering the created concentration camp, and EU legislators as well from entering.  The people are suffering and dying there without you, or any Zionist, protesting, and with Frank telling us the standard Zionist bullshit about what happened over a half century ago.  Truthdig has allowed this piece to slip further back while the blockade continues without media attention.

You are a Jew and appear willing for Jewish authorities to mass murder a whole people.  I am a Jew also, and when I protest Sepharad characterizes me as a white supremist, and Inherit states that I hate all Jews. 

I accuse Zionists like you in being complicit in mass murder.  In remaining silent as Germans did when Jews were rounded up to be killed.  I don’t expect anything from people like Howard, or Sepharad or Inherit. But from you I do.  These expectations are not being fullfilled.

Hey Howard….

Jonathan Pollard is a convicted Israeli spy and a former United States Naval civilian intelligence analyst. Pollard pleaded guilty and was convicted on one count of spying for Israel, receiving a life sentence in 1986 with a recommendation against parole. Israel publicly denied that Pollard was an Israeli spy until 1998, when he was granted Israeli citizenship.

According to Eric Margolis in the Toronto Sun, Pollard provided Israel with the names of Amerivan agents in the Soviet Union. Margolis also alleges that the names were later traded to the Soviet Union by Israel and a number of key CIA agents were executed as a result. Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker claims that “a number of officials strongly suspect that the Israelis repackaged much of Pollard’s material and provided it to the Soviet Union in exchange for continued Soviet permission for Jews to emigrate to Israel.“and that” a significant percentage of Pollard’s documents, including some that described the techniques the American Navy used to track Soviet submarines around the world, was of practical importance only to the Soviet Union”

Pollard’s superiors at the Navy Field Operational Office in Washington, D.C. grew suspicious of Pollard’s conduct. Stacks of classified documents unrelated to his work were repeatedly found in his office. The FBI was soon called in to investigate, and they arrested Pollard in November 1985. Any hopes of keeping the scandal under wraps were dashed when Pollard attempted to avoid arrest by requesting asylum at the Israeli embassy, as originally ordered by his Israeli handlers from Lekem (his controller was Rafi Eitan, former head of Lekem.) The Israeli embassy nevertheless refused to grant Pollard and his wife asylum, and Pollard was subsequently apprehended by the FBI. At the time, Israel publicly denied any connection to Pollard.

There were press reports at the time of the Camp David 2000 Summit that Clinton had offered to pardon and release Pollard as an inducement to then-Prime minister Ehud Barak to enter into an agreement with the Palestinians, but nothing ever came of it. There were also rumors that Pollard was among the many whom Clinton considered for Presidential pardon on his last day in office, January 20,2001.

The lates Israeli request for pollard’s release made in new York on September 14, 2005 was again declined by President Bush. A request on pollard’s behalf that he be designated a Prisoner of Zion was rejected by the High Court of Justice of Israel on january 16, 2006. Another appeal for intervention on Pollard’s behalf was rejected by the High Court on June 8, 2006.

Pollard & Israel’s spying has caused the deaths of many Americans! This zionist monster loyalty was not to America, but to a foreign country…Israel. He needs to pay for his damn spying and the deaths of our fellow Americans; He belongs in prison til he rots. This is only one of many spying affairs by Israel on the U.S.

You & the rest of the people on this forum can watch “Spy Jonathan Pollard” caught on tape. Surveillance video from 1985 shows American stealing secrets for Israel.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15222134/

Maani the Israelis offered the Palestinians the right to live in Bantustands and a continuation of the apatheid system where there would be little clusters of Palestinians surrounded on all sides by Israelis. Arafat was right to say that had he signed such an agreement he would have been assassinated. Not that the Israelis, at least, didn’t do their best to assassinate him anyway. You are blaming the victims, business as usual for those who refuse to see that the historic wrong here was done to the Palestinians by those who set up a Jewish state populated by European and American Jews in the middle of land that belonged to Muslims. Land that was taken by force: force which included massacres of defenceless Muslim civilians. Any discussion of the rockets flying over into Israel should also include a discussion of these facts. But somehow it just never does. Strange, isn’t it? Israel should apologize for the past and make a genuine effort for peace. Not to do these things will only continue the present nightmare. It is, of course, a far bigger nightmare for the Palestinians than it is for the Israelis which is why Israel never says sorry and never genuinely seeks peace. And the Israeli army and the far right politicians in Israel believe that nothing ever needs to change and they can go on persecuting the Palestinians until they have taken even the 30% of land that still remains in Palestinian hands. Israel needs to wake up to the fact that just because something is possible and might be politically and militarily clever does not make it moral or wise or ultimately sustainable.

Folktruther:

If you are trying to get a rise out of me, you will fail.  Your accusations of my being a Zionist are so absurd as to not even merit a response.  You have no idea who I am or what I have done vis-a-vis this issue, both with respect to criticizing and protesting Israeli oppression of Palestinians and supporting Palestinian rights.

Next time, try to find someone to whom your epithets actually apply.

Shalom.

Apparently the current Israeli blockade of food, water and medicines to Gaza is a attempt at ethnic cleansing.  They plan to open a gate to Egypt and force the population to emingrate.  If successful, they can then extend ethnic cleansing plans to other parts of the West Bank.

The plan obviously has both Bush and Obama support.

From the start the genocide propounded by the Arab countries has been continued. Acknowledged by the U.N. and the civilized community of nations, Israel became a recognized and sovereign state on May 14, 1948.  Immediately the five armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (which was named Jordan one year later in 1949 ), Lebanon and Iraq invaded the fledging country. Their combined goal, announced with enthusiasm all over the Arab world, was expressed plainly and publicly by Azzam Pasha, secretary-general of the Arab Legue: “This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre, wich will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.”

Hence, just a few years after the Holocaust and resultant codifiction of Crimes Against Humanity, the intent of these Arab states toward the tiny new State of Israel was openly genocidal.

It has not changed in over 60 years. They do not want to let Israel exist. There has been no compromise in all these years.  Rejectionism is their mantra; taught throuhout their schools and society.

You are increasing my respect for scholarship, Robert.  Not that you are typcial.

“NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: I don’t want to get now into the interminable question of what 242 meant. I will simply state the International Court of Justice in July 2004 ruled on that question. It stated Israel has to fully withdraw from the West Bank, Gaza, including Jerusalem. To my mind, it’s no longer a matter of dispute, however you want to interpret 242.

Let’s now turn to, just quickly, the last issue. It’s going to be hard for a lot of your listeners, because even though I have read two dozen books on the topic, I keep getting things confused. Camp David accord talks are in July 2000. Clinton parameters are roughly December 23rd, 2000. Taba, in January 2001. Now, Dr. Ben-Ami says Camp David, I can understand why the Palestinians turned down. Unfortunately, in his book he keeps referring to Arafat’s unyielding positions, even though now he acknowledges Palestinians made concessions at Camp David. In fact, as I said, all the concessions, within the framework of international law, came from the Palestinians.

Let’s now turn to those Clinton parameters. Dr. Ben-Ami accurately renders their content. I don’t think he accurately renders in the book what happened. He states in the book that at Taba, Israelis accept — excuse me, at the time of the Clinton parameters, the Israelis accepted the Clinton parameters. Arafat didn’t really accept the Clinton parameters. He said he did, but he didn’t. What actually happened? What actually happened was exactly as what was announced by the White House spokesman on January 3rd, 2001, the official statement was both the Israelis and the Palestinians have accepted the Clinton parameters with some reservations. Both sides entered reservations on the Clinton parameters. Dr. Ben-Ami leaves out in the book both sides. He only mentions the reservations by the Palestinians.

Number two, I was surprised to notice one of the books Dr. Ben-Ami recommends is the book by Clayton Swisher called The Truth at Camp David. I looked in the book. On page 402 of Clayton Swisher’s book, when he’s discussing the issue of entering reservations to Clinton’s parameters, he quotes none other than Shlomo Ben-Ami. You acknowledged — you call them relatively minor, but you acknowledged that Barak entered — you called it several pages of reservations. In fact, Barak sent a ten-page letter of reservations to the Clinton parameters. It was exactly symmetrical. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians agreed to the Clinton parameters with some reservations.

Wait, one last point. One last point. Dr. Ben-Ami left out another crucial point in his account. He doesn’t tell us why Taba ended. It ended officially when Barak withdrew his negotiators. It wasn’t the Palestinians who walked out of Taba. It ended with the Israelis walking out of Taba, a matter of historical record, not even controversial.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on URL for the rest of the facts:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=140

Who wants peace, Maani?  You certainly don’t, you want continued Zionist oppression.  As you well know, but has been excluded and obscured in the media, what was offered to the Palestinians was Bantustans cut up by Israeli military outposts between them.  The Palestinians in East Jeruselum to continue to live under Zionist oppression.

Now the Zionist pretense is be in favor of a two state solution while continuing to blow up Palestinian homes, murder families, and torture activists, both Palestinian and Jewish, and steal Palestinian land and water.  And starving Palestinians in a giant concentation camp of Gaza.  Recent UN figures state that even within Israel, economic inequality is greater than in any European developed country.

The worst of it is that American Zionists, like you, Inherit and Shepharad, pollute the American progressive consensus with unreason and deception to prevent the American population from effectively resisting the American power system.  The Zionist tail is wagging the American dog.  And this is what the American people must understand.

Israeli policy is one of genocide toward Palestinians. It’s Time for armed UN intervention.

Howard writes “free Israel from the tyranny of the press”.Actually Howard free the world from the tyranny of the Zionist MSM whom control most of what people read and watch on tv.It’s not surprising that most people buy into this bullshit “war on terroism” which is really just a war against Islam and Muslim people and O’BOMBA the Zionist stooge will make sure things remain the same.

.

Free Pollard.  Yes.
Free Israel.  Free them from the unstopping rockets and missiles that have yet to stop being lobbed from Gaza.  Free Israel from the tunnels that Hamas is digging into Israel to kidnap its citizens and soldiers.

Free Israel from the tyranny of the press that buys into the manufactured shortage in Gaza. Free Israel from the enmity of its neighbors who refuse even after decades for the right of Israel to exist.

Folktruther/KDelphi:

Firstly, I am of Jewish (though not Israeli) descent, so I am acutely aware of the situation, and I DO condemn Israeli aggression in all forms.

However, let’s not forget that the Israelis offered the PLO 95% OF WHAT THEY ASKED FOR - including ceding them virtually all the land they asked for, having their own government and their own police force, and a complete end to Israeli aggression and the building of Israeli settlements (among other things)...and the PLO rejected it SOLELY because Israel was not willing to divide Jerusalem.  THAT is what I mean by “compromise”: the Israelis were MORE than willing to compromise in order to end the ceaseless violence and strife - on both sides - but the Palestinians dismissed it all out-of-hand over a single issue.

So tell me - who wants peace and who doesn’t?

It’s not just heartless.  Collective punishment also happens to be a war crime by the rogue state—and couldn’t happen without U.S. assent!

ZOA, Israeli rabbis press for Pollard pardon

By Ron Kampeas · November 14, 2008

“WASHINGTON (JTA) - The Zionist Organization of America and 200 Israeli chief rabbis asked President Bush to pardon Jonathan Pollard.

Requests to pardon the former U.S. Navy analyst, sentenced in 1987 to life for spying for Israel, are routine, but these pleas come as Bush prepares to leave office at a record low popularity – a condition that has paradoxically in the past freed presidents to make unpopular pardons.

Bush’s father, for instance, pardoned officials in his administration allegedly involved in the illegal arms—for-hostages deal with Iran after his defeat to President Clinton in 1992.

In its letter, the ZOA emphasized the relative harshness of the sentence – life for passing information to an ally, comparable to sentences for Cold War spies whose betrayals led to the deaths of Americans.

“The on-going imprisonment of Jonathan Pollard is unnecessary, unjust, disproportionate and inexplicable in terms of protecting the national interest,” the ZOA said. “We respectfully appeal to you to put an end to what is now an inequitable term of imprisonment and pardon Jonathan Pollard.”

Separately, Israel’s Sephardi and Ashkenazi chief rabbis rallied around 200 regional and municipal chief rabbis to sign a pardon request. “Jonathan Pollard is currently serving his 23rd year in prison,” the letter said. “He is ill and his condition is serious. We respectfully request that you act mercifully towards him. Please grant him clemency as a humanitarian gesture to the Jewish People and the State of Israel.” ‘

http://jta.org/news/article/2008/11/14/1000977/zoa-israeli-rabbis-press-for-pollard-pardon

maani—There are people of Hebrew heritage on this site. My brother in law in NYC is one—-here is what he says in rseponse to the article and news of Barak (and/or Olmert et al)

“NO, K, you are absolutely NOT being anti-Semetic to question Israel’s policies AND it is especialy anti-Hebrew to not insist on JUSTICE for the people of Palestine! Israel’s behavior has been anti-Arab/Palestine and anti-justice, something that I, as a law professor, of Jewish parentage,  find particularly distateful and gutless. Criticize away!”

PS It is bad for the US and for Jews.You cannot build happiness on other people’s misery.

Israel Bans International Media from Gaza, Arrests Human Rights Activists

By CHERRIE HEYWOOD (Middle East Times)
Published: November 19, 2008

“HUMILIATION AT SEA—Three Israeli naval vessels surrounded three Palestinian fishing boats Nov. 18 and directed 15 Palestinian fishermen to strip naked and swim in the icy winter waters toward the naval vessels. They were then taken in for interrogation.

GAZA CITY, Gaza—Israel has banned foreign journalists from entering Gaza to cover the deteriorating humanitarian situation there as the country ‘s complete closure of the territory enters a third week.

Several groups of European parliamentarians were banned last week from passing through Israel’s Erez border crossing into Gaza to assess the situation on the ground and to hold meetings with Hamas leaders.

Three international human rights activists were also forcibly arrested, by the Israeli navy, from Palestinian fishing vessels in Gaza’s waters.

AP head, and Israeli Foreign Press Association chairman, Steven Gutkin said journalists had called him complaining of being refused entry since last week.

Since then, he said, the association had appealed to the government to allow access, with no success.

“We consider it a serious problem for freedom of the press. We think that journalists have to be placed in a special category. A blanket ban on people going into Gaza should not apply to journalists,” Gutkin added.

“We are hoping that this is not the start of a policy of banning journalists from Gaza. We would like to point out that when times are tough, and when things heat up, it is important for journalists to be able to enter.”

A BBC media crew was also refused entry last week.

Conny Mus, a reporter from the Dutch television station RTL was told telephonically by Israeli military officials that he and his crew would be able to enter Gaza.

However, upon arrival they were kept waiting for five hours and then eventually informed they would not be able to cross over.

“They put our names on a list and we waited for five hours at the border,” said Mus. Only then was their request denied.

Although journalists have been barred from entering Gaza in the past, this has normally been for limited periods only, not the current lengthy and complete blackout.

The Israeli foreign ministry said no order had been issued to prevent journalists from going to Gaza.

“There is no decision not to allow journalists in,” said Peter Lerner, the spokesman for the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories.

Israel closed all of Gaza’s borders on Nov. 4. This followed a cross-border military raid into the Gaza strip by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) to allegedly destroy a tunnel which the IDF said was meant to smuggle Israeli soldiers.”

http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/11/19/israel_bans_international_media_from_gaza_arrests_human_rights_activists/6228/

November 19, 2008

Noise But No Action From US Over Family’s Eviction
Who Will Stop the Settlers?

By JONATHAN COOK

“The middle-of-the-night eviction last week of an elderly Palestinian couple from their home in East Jerusalem to make way for Jewish settlers is a demonstration of Israeli intent towards a future peace deal with the Palestinians.

Mohammed and Fawziya Khurd are now on the street, living in a tent, after Israeli police enforced a court order issued in July to expel them.

The couple have been living in the same property in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood since the mid-1950s, when East Jerusalem was under Jordanian control. The United Nations allotted them the land after they were expelled from their homes in territory that was seized by Israel during the 1948 war.

Since East Jerusalem’s occupation by Israel in 1967, however, Jewish settler groups have been waging a relentless battle for the Khurds’ home, claiming that the land originally belonged to Jews.

In 1999, the settlers occupied a wing of the house belonging to the couple’s son, Raed, though the courts subsequently ruled in favour of the family. The eviction order against the settlers, unlike that against the Khurds, was never enforced.

The takeover of the Khurds’ house is far from an isolated incident. Settlers are quietly grabbing homes from Palestinians in key neighbourhoods around the Old City of Jerusalem in an attempt to pre-empt any future peace deal with the Palestinians.

What makes the case of the Khurd family exceptional is that it has attracted the attention of western consulates, particularly those of Israel’s important allies, that is, the United States and Britain. They have appealed without success to the Israeli government to intercede.

In particular, the diplomats are concerned that the takeover of the Khurds’ home will set a dangerous precedent, freeing settler groups to wrest control of most of Sheikh Jarrah. The settlers plan to oust more than 500 Palestinians from the neighbourhood and build 200 apartments for Jewish families.

If the settlers can take control of other areas, such as Silwan, Ras al-Amud and the Mount of Olives, the Old City and its holy sites would be as good as sealed off not only to Palestinians in the West Bank – as is the case already – but also to nearly 250,000 Palestinians in the outlying suburbs of East Jerusalem.

Because the Palestinians expect East Jerusalem and its holy places to be the core of their state, the Sheikh Jarrah judgment effectively offers the settlers a blocking veto on any future negotiations.

That may be one reason why the Israeli government has shown little inclination to intervene in cases like that of the Khurds. In Israeli law, all of Jerusalem, including the eastern half of the city, is the “indivisible” capital of the Jewish state.

The eviction order also worries western diplomats because it opens up a Pandora’s box of competing land claims that will make it impossible for Palestinian negotiators to sign up to a deal on the division of Jerusalem.

The Palestinian Authority has already pointed out to the consulates that nearly two-thirds of West Jerusalem’s land was owned by Palestinians before the creation of Israel. Fawziya Khurd, for example, lived in Talbieh, in what is now the city’s western half, before 1948.

If the settlers can make property claims in East Jerusalem based on title deeds that pre-exist 1948, why cannot Palestinians make similar claims in West Jerusalem?

The US involvement in the Khurd case demonstrates its desire to mark its red lines in East Jerusalem. The concern is that Israeli actions on the ground are seeking to unravel the outlines of an agreement being promoted by Washington to create some kind of circumscribed Palestinian state.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Click on URL for the rest of the story that we don’t see or hear on the AIPAC & zionist controlled mainstream media:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook11192008.html

Manni, your assertion that you don’t support Israeli aggression is quite false.  Of course you do.  You are calling for COMPROMISE ON BOTH SIDES while Palestinian children are dying from lack of food, clean water, medicinces, etc from being blockaded by Israel.

This fake neutrality is a common position of thsoe too cowardly to oppose oppression legitimated by power. A call for compromise from both oppressors and the oppressed, torturers and the tortured, concentration camp guards and inmates, murderers and the murdered.  After all, one can’t be rigid or one way about it, can one?

Yes, one can.  Dante reserved the hottest flames of hell for those who did not take the side of the just against the unjust.  His punishments were Divinely inspired and richly deserved.

Hi Maani,
My comment wasn’t meant as a rant to return the country to the native Americans (although we can and should do better by them), but as a comparison of our treatment of them and the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.

I do have a problem with hardliners on both sides, but I also know that in the US our media generally gives information about the “poor Israeli’s” and what was done to them, without telling what the Israeli’s did now to stir up the Palestinians! 

I’m also sure that if US citizens were having their homes raided on a nightly basis, were paying taxes and had their activities and movements scrutinzed daily, - oh wait we do have big brother doing just that, well, never mind.

Blowing up the King David hotel in Jersalem brought the British Mandate down. It resulted in the Blafour Declaration and statehood for Israel.

It’s telling that Irgun,Israel’s terrorist group, was willing to kill innocent civilians (93, the hotel was home to foreign legations and their families)to further its dreams of sovereignty. Ironically, their adversaries learned from them and adopted Irgun’s techniques and killing civilians ethos to further their dreams of sovereignty.  In 1953, the Algerian nationalists employed Irgun’s tactics and won independence from France. The rest is history. Israel has taught its lessons well to groups of disenfranchised eager and quick to learn.

Israel’s continuum of belligerent Palistinian repression reaches a nadir each year only to be replaced by another more repugnant. Starving people should never be a policy endorsed by any government! Listen, Yatebedam (yiddish=Mr Big Shot), Moses asked Pharoah “let my people go.”  What was good for Israel then would also be good for the Palestinians: Let them go!

spiritgirl—I agree with you again!

The Biblical blah , blah…

It is not that i have nothing to say about it, ut is just that someone else has already said it better than I could.

Spiritgirl:

I agree with you that we should return the entirety of the U.S. to the Native Americans, since that is what you are ultimately suggesting - and since they did a FAR better job than we have of taking care of the place.

That said, it is clearly not realistic (though it WOULD be nice if we gave SOME of it back so they could live with some dignity!).  Nor is anything BUT a two-state solution re Israel and Palestine.  This means compromise on BOTH sides.

I do not support Israeli aggression or settlement-building.  And if it hasn’t already stopped, it must.  But neither do I support the hard-line extremists in the occupied territories for whom the only acceptable solution is the dissolution of the State of Israel.

Until the hard-liners on BOTH sides commit to some form of compromise, nothing will get done.  Period.

Peace. (?)

Long ago the US lost it’s position as a mediator between Palestine/Israel!  The Israeli’s need to face that they are the new “Gestapho” and the Palestinians are the brutalized!  The only problem is that the Palestinians are unwilling to cooperate with this scenario!  I don’t blame them at all!

For those that think it’s anti-semitic, let’s think back to the days when the native Americans roamed the plains - they were hunted down, rounded up and today the nations that are left after the genocide live on the Reservation!  What is the difference, most of these Israeli Jews are European/Russian and their parents back several generations are buried in Europe/Russia, so they come into Israel the “natives” are forcibly removed and relocated!  Not to mention that the Israeli bully is backed in his brutality by his big brother the US, that turns a blind eye to all of the bad behavior!  Enough already, if Israel truly wants peace, then they need to stop building illegal settlements, they need to go back to the 1967 borders, they need to stop being the aggressors, and the US needs to stop turning a blind eye to all of the Israeli bad behavior!!

The abused become abusers.  What is true of indiviuals is true of states as well.  The US in this case is an enabler.

In ths present regard, you all might be interested in this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/world/middleeast/14settlers.html?sq=settlers&st=cse&scp=1&pagewanted=print

Peace.

The Holocaust was a long time ago and it is about time that Israel be held accountable for being the bad actor they have become. Like us, they are becoming that which they fear and hate!

It’s encouraging to see that Truthdig is taking on the Zionists to some extent.  Finally.  It is only by combating American Zionists that the “Transfer” and genocide of the Palestinians will be averted.  A growing fraction of the Israeli population is supporting it.  All factions.

Barak, who is instrumental in continuing the blockade is a leader of the Israeli Labor Party.

The cry rings out from the evil halls of Israeli government, “Palestine must die!” Apartheid rules the Promised Land and atrocity would therefore be, the Hand of God. Yikes, those Israelis are some stone cold killers!