By elizabethe, October 19 at 5:30 pm #

To Cyrena:
Facts should win over opinion, and IF you vote on MERITS for the BEST on November4th, then the BEST, if the majority is INFORMED, the BEST will win the Presidency.
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Actually, I agree with you elizabethe, (at least in part) but OPINIONS are (in)formed by facts, and individual biases do enter in, based on individual priorities on what (of the facts) they find important to the whole. How individuals assimilate and compile factual information is not under your or my control.

That said, ‘merit’ is a tricky term to use in this case, and I believe inappropriate, since it means (in some minds) that ‘merit’ somehow promises a ‘reward’. The presidency is not a reward. The Presidency is a job, and the candidates are the applicants for the job, and we the people are doing the hiring and the selection of applicants. “Merit” in that context, becomes relative to the job requirements, and there are many areas that we have to consider. Some of these measurements cannot be determined by ‘merit’.

I am particularly concerned with the who will exercise the best judgment, and who can work the best with a Congress that represents varied interests.

The ‘best’ is also a relative term. One may appear to be ‘the best’ at one thing, and someone else may appear to be ‘the best’ at something else. Again, it’s a matter of interpretation of the voter.

I disagree with you that all voters are informed by the media, or that we all get our ‘facts’ from the media. I don’t, and I’m a voter. The only part the media plays in my being an informed voter is when the media broadcasts the words of the candidates, or reprints statements/speeches that the candidates have made. But for me, that is only part of it. I take the time to also examine the records that the candidates have established within the parliamentary process of making legislation. In other words, the bills or proposals that they’ve introduced, and how they vote on various others.

Additionally, I observe their public works, and public service record, and who benefits from whatever public service they’ve accomplished. Again, that is available, and on the record for any candidates who have indeed performed these services. Then I put that into perspective to the requirements of the job now, at this particular time in history.

Back to opinion and fact: they can’t be so easily separated in political decisions. Opinion is the same as ideology, and ideology is important. If one candidate has an ideology that will determine how he or she governs, you/I/we need to know what that ideology is, in making our decisions.

2 of 2
The question of pregnancy termination is one of them. In my own opinion, such a question shouldn’t even be part of the political discourse, because it is an individual, NOT a political question, since we know that it doesn’t affect the ‘body politic’. Yet, as we know, it comes up each and every time there is an election, because it has become an issue of law that affects everyone, even though it should not.

That being the case, there is a major ideological difference between the candidates, and how they would handle the legalities of the question.

So for instance, Barack Obama believes that Roe v. Wade was decided correctly. In short, that it is a matter of privacy. Other candidates, (like McCain and Sarah Palin) don’t believe in the decision of Roe v. Wade, or that such a decision should be made privately, and so would therefore use their executive power to attempt to overturn that legislation. This is a matter of opinion, because it is based on their ideologies. So yes, opinion and fact are of equal importance in this question, and merit has nothing to do with it.

At the end of the day, I don’t so much care about political parties in stand alone terms, and many other voters may feel the same way. (in fact, I think many do). So, there are 6 candidates on the current ballot, and I believe myself to be relatively well informed on all but one of them. (somebody named Drake..never heard of him). Now theoretically, we could take all of their ‘party’ affiliations away, and just vote for them based on all of the stuff that we’ve already talked about. I would still vote for Barack Obama, if we were selecting from those same 6 candidates, because I personally believe him to be the best. But, that has nothing to do with merit, and everything to do with facts as well as ideology(opinion).

But, in our own political structure, we DO have these ‘parties’ because they have developed (originally) as a way to collectively espouse a particular ideology. There are pitfalls there, even though the original idea is a good one. We also have the electoral system, which can (and has) produced skewed results that a direct (rather than representative) democracy would avoid. If we had a direct democracy system of election, where the POPULAR vote was the deciding criteria, I think it would probably be better. That wouldn’t eliminate the purpose of political parties, and we’d have to decide how those results should be appropriated. For instance, I think Australia decides based on a popular vote, and the person getting the most votes is the President, and the person getting the next highest number of votes becomes the VP, (or whatever the similar title is) and on down. But, they still have political parties there.

Meantime, we’re stuck with this Electoral College system, until some brave and smart people can come up with a different system that can then be considered and accepted by the populace. Based on that system of winner take all, dependent on the majority vote in each state, a ‘dilution’ of votes over a six candidate selection span can indeed skew the results of what the true majority may have preferred. That’s how we got highjacked 8 years ago, and it ain’t been pretty.

To Cyrena:

Facts should win over opinion, and IF you vote on MERITS for the BEST on November 4th, then the BEST, if the majority is INFORMED, the BEST will win the Presidency.

FACTS:

There are over 100 million registered voters who are not registered in a party.  82 million - because that is the way 24 states register, simply register to vote (for the best, obviously assumed, not a party, on election day) The 21.3 million (I am among this group) who are mostly independents, “OTHER” outside the two parties in the 26 states which DO declare party, chose outside BY CHOICE and declined to state, because we did not identify with either party.  36 million declared Democrat Party at registration by choice, in the 26 states, and 26 million declared Republican.

That is 62% not registered in the two parties.

and, 38% in the COMBINED two parties.

It is guaranteed that neither party has a majority or even 50%.

So, the BEST can win, and anything that reeks of powermongering of the current status quo in office trying to force a no change situation as if that is some strong force against democracy in power as two choices only allowed, when there is NO SUCH SYSTEM, and NO SUCH rule, only two party rule due to be voted out…this final paragraph is MY VIEW of the situation of the media presentation of two choices only as if both are good, when both are the status quo and there is no cause to expect change unless you vote for change, and that change is DUE on November 4th.  This paragraph is my opinion.  But, as Ben Franklin knew when he voiced opinions he believed were facts, allow the other side the proper respect of disagreeing, and hope the truth will out.
‘
There are six candidates on the ballot.

If you look at the vote4r registration statistics:

100 million not in two parties
36 million Democrats
26 million Republicans

CERTAINLY the reality of choice and no two party system with SIX on the ballot means the proper stuff is in order and the voters each and every one has the duty to do their homework, compare all six and decide who offers the most credible and wanted agenda and will put america on track for the majority at a public interest agenda, as most likely!

Silence is good sometimes, but voters are not listening to anything except the media, and the candidates’ reality is what will enter office by a majority result, so do the homework.  SIX are a REAL choice for a Majority TRUTH.

Uh..let’s not fight amongst ourselves, dear friends. <grin>If elizabethe wants to vote for Nader,then she should vote for Nader…at least go VOTE.  Remember what Obama says when the boos start when he mentions McCain?  He says…“Don’t need any of that…just go VOTE.” He does this without missing a beat!

That crowd in St. Louis yesterday was amazing.  I looked at the photo and was astounded, thinking this can’t be happening. But there Obama stands, a young man, dressed casually in a white shirt with the sleeves rolled up, running for president, and surrounded by thousands of people in a state that doesn’t necessarily support his politics…but he’s CAUSED those thousands to want to spend their gorgeous Saturday afternoon with him, listening to him speak. 

How refreshing…and how incredibly hopeful for all of us.

I do not believe in tolerance and equality towards suicidal/sociopathological maniacs that cannot see the error in their own ways.They should be institutionalized.
Someone once dsecribed insanity as “doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”.
Vote for Waxworks and his Psychotic Sidekick and the Results Will be The Same.
“Less Government” for the elite few who thrive in the deregulated “there’s a sucker born every minute” mentality to Everyone Elses detriment.
“Free Market Capitalism” that is now officially Socialized, by the way, with the profits still privatized,and the Taxpayer once again covering the losses.
“Fiscal Responsibility” that spawns endless, bankrupting, immoral wars and derivative investment vehicles that even Hitler and Greenspan wouldn’t understand.
Republican values translate to opportunity for a few, and pain and suffering for everyone and everything else.
For this country to move forward a whole lot of old, fearful, uneducated people will have to die.
This is one drawback of longer lifespans, the advances in medical science, and cutbacks to school budgets.
KILL YOUR TV/ LIVE FREE !!!

If we had the draft, this many people would be marching on Washington DC weekly, 5 years ago.

Its only when the bombs go off in the places Congressmen tread that Congrssional action against the war begins.

By Fahrenheit 451, October 19 at 2:36 am #

Gee, Cyrena, how utterly American of you.  You yell and scream about rights and then trash someone for expressing an honest opinion.  Get a grip!

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Umm…OK fahrenheit 451. I might be missing something here. Is the above comment your response to my comment here?

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By cyrena, October 18 at 10:44 pm #

GOOOO BarackO!!!!

Elizabethe, you should exercise your right to remain silent.

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Is my recommendation for elizabethe here to exercise her RIGHT to remain silent a trashing of her for expressing an ‘honest’ opinion? My comment was 9 words. Hardly a ‘trashing’.

Maybe you were referring to something else. Elizabeth has left muliple droppings of opinions all over these threads, but how ‘honest’ they are is another matter of opinion. I think she just sounds like one of the many Naderite cult trolls that have hit the bandwith in this tail end to a long hard struggle to break through the grip of fascism that has nearly destroyed us.

Admittedly, I’m not much in the mood to hear from the perennial Nader OR his cult. He’s hasn’t made a single HONEST effort to prevent this, (in the past 20 years that he’s been running every 4 years, for president only) and his cult is nothing more than a distraction at this 11th hour.

So yeah, the right to remain silent is a bona fide right that she should exercise.

BTW, how do you know that I ‘yell and scream’? For all you know, I might be a deaf mute. Or, maybe you’re just hearing sounds and voices that aren’t really there?

Get a grip. Thing’s get better after BarackO is elected. I promise.

Gee, Cyrena, how utterly American of you.  You yell and scream about rights and then trash someone for expressing an honest opinion.  Get a grip!

GOOOO BarackO!!!!

Elizabethe, you should exercise your right to remain silent.

The two parties are in office and have failed DEMOCRACY
and I am voting for the man who offers the track record of ON TRACK achievements for CONGRESS as to legislation enacted for the public interest, such as the Freedom of Information Act (open government on the record with nothing to hide, policies that can stand public scrutiny, meeting and decisions on the record…impacting the majority of people with best and proper results for sanity.  NO MILITARY BUILDUP, NO MORE RED INK BAILOUTS…my choice is Ralph Nader, and we are supposed to vote for the RIGHT CHANGE needed, we are NOT stuck with two choices.  McCain is not the majority if Obama is not winning, the other four challengers are the ones to look at, and I believe Nader is the best, and he should claim the majority.  SIX candidates are supposed to be measured on the merits.  The two parties have FAILED and they do not have the EDGE over the others, and do not have the right to stop the majority from voting AGAINST them and FOR GOOD LEADERSHIP on track.

I am voting FOR Nader for President.  A majority CAN vote for him and expect SUCCESS for NADER IN OFFICE by the MAJORITY RULE.  Only 38% are registered in the combined two parties.