Well it is comforting to know Kucinich is still batting for the people, even if the balance of opportunists are not.

Seems posters are getting testy, glad to see I am not alone.

I am having a lot of trouble pulling up the website for the House of Representatives today. I wonder what the problem is?

Another take on the “big guys”, there’s more of us than there is of them…  That’s right folks, “That’s FASCISM” or rather… THIS (what we are experiencing) is fascism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsDJQuB60nY&feature=related

It seems even as Bush is trumpeting the supposed agreement, not everyone is onboard.  According to a story in “The Hill”:

“I will tell you right now I don’t know if they have votes,” said Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio). “If the votes were there, this would be on the floor. The votes aren’t there….”

“....Kucinich called for more hearings on the bailout despite Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke speaking about the proposal before lawmakers last week.

“None of this has been subject to a critical analysis. We haven’t had access to the books to the people who are claiming they are going broke,” said Kucinich. He also drew the parallel between the administration’s intense urgency on the Wall Street relief package and its drive towards the conflict in Iraq.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/kucinich-says-not-enough-votes-for-bailout-2008-09-28.html

I do recall that the crisis went from “economic collaspe” to “serious recession” as the days wore on.  Something about the whole scenario stinks.  Why don’t these “poor saps” just borrow a few bucks from Halliburton or Boeing.  They’ve been doing well and should have a few taxpayer dollars lying around for a “good buddy”.

Those saying do nothing cite hyper-inflation and the dollar tanking if the “bailout” goes through.  Those of us who are retired and getting SS will be especially devastated. 
Curiously both Obama and McCain may skip the vote on this travesty against the American people.
My own opinion is to let the chips fall where they may.  Everyone will be hurt; but it will especially hurt the criminals who drove this greedy train wreck.

Nancy’s best friend:  KY Jelley.

Pelosi:  “No longer will the taxpayers bail out Wall Street…”

Oh yes they will.  Nancy, if you won’t do it again, why do it now? 

They were pretty words and you said them sooo well!

The very few are winning - They are not stupid, nor are they incompetent.
The very few only care for the power of the control-of-the-control of… wealth.

The very few are educated, intelligent, efficient, and successful.
The very few have intelligently, efficiently, successfully transferred the wealth to themselves.

America is not the very few.  We, the other 99.x%, are America.
The wealth they stole, was our wealth.  It is now their wealth.  Their power.

We gave up securities, liberties, freedoms, so the very few could complete the theft.
We still are. . .  Without protest, without revolt. . .  With our children.

And now they blatantly come demanding $700 billion, (to over $1 trillion,) more -
To pay for their ‘investment’ crimes - Do you think anyone will stop them?

And don’t forget…  If “The 32 Words” are still in the deal…  It is a trap.

The best idea coming from congress it to pay for this with a 2.5% tax on stock transactions.  If Wall Street hates this so much the better.  Leave the tax on until this mess clears the books.  Then take the tax off with the provision that any time Wall Street needs a bailout this tax will be back on.  You will be amazed how fast these stock traders will suddenly become self-regulating.

An excellent article at Global Research, another MUST read, a couple of excerpts.

“Financial industry rep. Paulson is the ringleader in a banker’s coup the results of which will decide America’s economic and political future for years to come. The coup leaders have drained tens of billions of dollars of liquidity from the already-strained banking system to trigger a freeze in interbank lending and hasten a stock market crash. This, they believe, will force Congress to pass Paulson’s $770 billion bailout package without further congressional resistance. It’s blackmail.

As yet, no one knows whether the coup-backers will succeed and further consolidate their political power via a massive economic shock to the system, but their plan continues to move jauntily forward while the economy follows its inexorable slide to disaster….”

“....Bingo. This is a banker’s coup cooked up and facilitated by the deep-money guys who operate stealthily behind the political sideshow. The only time they emerge from their stinkholes is when they’re flushed out by a crisis that threatens their continued dominance. Grassroots resistance, spearheaded by Internet bloggers (like Mish, Roubini and Denninger) are demonstrating that they can mobilize tens of thousands of “peasants with pitchforks” and be a factor in political decision making. It also helps to have elected officials, like Senator Richard Shelby, who stand firm on principle and don’t faint at the first whiff of grapeshot (like his weak-kneed Democratic counterparts) Shelby has shouldered the full-weight of executive pressure which has descended on him like a Appalachian rockslide. As a result, there’s still a slight chance that the bill will have to be shelved and the industry reps will have to go back to Square 1. (emphasis mine)

Market Ticker has provided charts from the Federal Reserve that prove that Bernanke has withdrawn $125 billion from the banking system in the last 4 days alone to create a crisis situation that will incite credit market mayhem and increase the liklihood of passing the bill. This is coercion of the worst kind…. http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/2008/09/24.html

“....More alarming, the country’s primary creditors are now staging a rebellion that is likely to cut off the flow of capital to US markets sending the dollar plummeting and triggering a deflationary credit collapse. This is from Reuters:

“Chinese regulators have asked domestic banks to stop lending to U.S. financial institutions in the interbank money markets to prevent possible losses during the financial crisis, the South China Morning Post reported Thursday. The China Banking Regulatory Commission’s ban on interbank lending of all currencies applied to U.S. banks, but not to lenders from other countries, the report added.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10355

I would contact representatives in congress….AGAIN.

I don’t think the American people are stupid, Anarcissie, I think we’re crazy. Or, rather, we are stupid BECAUSE we are crazy. We have been taught from childhood,when we are most impressionable, credulous and powerless to resist authority, to identify with authorized power.  With experts, specialists, authorities.  The mainstrream truth tradition of polities is formulated from the perspective of power rather than from the perspective of the population.

So if people are afraid, confused, intimidated or uninterested, it is easier to support authority, or stay neutral, than to challenge authority.  That is what people are taught from childhood to avoid.  Social science calls this process Socialization.  We are all Socialized, for Our Own Good, to indentify with our own oppression and the oppression of other people.

This works best for the Educated Elite, like Cyrena or Cann4ing.  In reality, as you know, the Educated often don’t even know schoolbook history and social theory, not to mention their refutations.  But this Education instills the power delusions that authority uses to legitimate their policies.  Since the simple truth subverts these power delusions, the population, and the Elite, reject the simple truth about the power process.

This is the major reason for the population’s stupor.  It is not a question of intelligence, but a question of courage.  It is not a question of ignorance, but of emotional denial.  It is not a question of monstrous evil, but a lack of basic decency. 

Somehow it is necessary to appeal to their people values to trump the power values that they have been indoctrinated with in the learned and mass media all their lives.

Yes, I noticed Jackpine Savage, that the bankers started getting very upset that credit card holders might be getting some rights.

They look at the American people as their personal vassels, or credit serf’s if you prefer.

And when the idea, that we might get some protection was broached, their main argument was that credit would be harder and more expensive for us, how considerate of them.

The economy is upside down, and though this bail out will slow things a little, it’s not going to protect us from their malfeasance…

The market will continue to fall until 2012, because of things that they haven’t quite revealed yet…

As it stands the wealthy will invest their money in this scheme because now that the government is backing things up their investment is guaranteed… almost…

FYI:

From a business perspective, feels less comfortable then most of us do?

http://www.newstatesman.com/business/2008/09/banks-financial-paulson-public

911truthdotorg,

Interesting link, really like his TP demo.

Dr. Knowitall: ‘I believe that the experts don’t even know what’s going on here. ...’

Or they know and don’t want to say.  As I look around blogs, Usenet, and other Net forums, I can see that a lot of people do have at least a partial grasp of the causes of the crisis and the games that are now being played with it.  I think it’s quite possible the politicos and pundits understand it too—but by playing dumb they won’t have to do anything about it and can hope that something turns up to get them off the hook.  As for the voters in general, “No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people” although I think this time they are definitely pushing the envelope.

Talk about Palin having a lack of knowledge and experience… I was listening to some so called experts on the market talking on NPR this morning and it’s clear that no one has a clue about what this means in the long run nor about what is going to happen next.  They don’t sound any better than Fey does imitating Palin.

I believe that the experts don’t even know what’s going on here.

The real tradegy could turn out to be that the American people will never be allowed by their politicians to know exactly what would have happened had Wall Street been left hanging.  It could have turned out to have been better for everyone and the country and it economy in the long run despite fat cat demagoguery.

The financial 9/11 is happening right before our very eyes…and, like 9/11, the American sheeple believe everything thing they’re being told. Such good boys and girls!

Watch to this guy….Max Keiser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS65bA4kKVE
http://www.maxkeiser.com/

Again, Ron Paul is proven right. Of course, you would never know this by watching either the phony “debates” or the usual drivel on the MSM.

When the Federal Reserve counterfeiters/gangsters increase the money supply or loosen credit, their fellow gangsters in the banking industry lend money to questionable enterprises. Depending on the political winds that are blowing at the time, the extra money and credit may be steered into the stock market, or the mortgage market, or anywhere else, resulting in a bubble. Often, pseudo-private entities in our quasi-fascist state “guarantee” the bad loans, confident that the taxpayer will socialize any losses.

Pumping another 700 billion into the bubble does not solve the problem. It is better to let the bubble burst, allow prices to plummet, marginal companies to go bankrupt and be sold for pennies on the dollar, and let the people start rebuilding.

There would be one or at most two years of depression, followed by a strong recovery as bargain priced assets get snapped up, fixed up, and restarted.

Between now and then, several actual reforms could be instituted that would ensure this sort of mess never happens again.

First, “Fractional Reserve Banking” needs to be outlawed. FSB is just a fancy term for counterfeiting. Demand Deposits like checking or checkbook savings should be charged a maintenance fee, not given a pittance of “interest” based on lending out a large portion of the money. The bank should only be allowed to invest money in Time Deposits, in which the depositor knows where the money is to be invested, and when he or she can withdraw the money. This way, there is no artificial increase in the money supply.

Second, all money should be based on gold or silver coin. All the gold in Fort Knox should be coined and sold to the public at market rates. All legal tender laws must be repealed. (Legal Tender Laws mean that you have to accept the government’s money, no matter how useless or inflated it is. At the same time, you can’t coin your own money, even if it clearly states the weight and purity of the precious metal it contains. For evidence of this, google “Ron Paul Dollars.”)

Since gold and silver only increase in abundance at very slow rates, there would be no chance for inflation. Any bank caught engaging in Fractional Reserve Counterfeiting should be immediately closed, and its officers prosecuted and jailed. Punishment for this very egregious crime should be severe and swift, to discourage any other miscreants from trying to engage in it.

Since, under a precious metal standard, money tends to increase in value over time, rather than lose value, people have a strong incentive to be circumspect about where they invest it. This acts as a natural brake on poor investments and market bubbles.

Obama and McCain have no concept of what needs to be done. Both of them quibble about how gigantic the bailout of their banker fascist corporatist buddies should be. Neither challenges the essential, fundamental aspects of the problem.

Actually, I found the Yahoo! News version a bit more informative:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080928/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown;_ylt=AjZ..hh11nLP4L9qNi.u2LWb.HQA

It told us a bit more about our Presidential candidates.  Neither seems to have had much impact, but it looks like Obama tried a bit harder to speak up for Main Street.

BTW, did anybody else notice that while all this circus act for the Hole in the Wall Street Gang is going on this week, that they passed a One trillion dollar defense budget with little, to no, news coverage!
$1,000,000,000,000,000.00 for rockets, planes and bullets.

Our priorities are sure screwed around!

the credit card companies have been operating outside of the laws of the USA & been all ok with our elected officials; heard of loansharking laws right? above & beyond that are predatory acts & laws; it is all criminal; & it has all been condoned by our lawless leaders; THIS is the reason that this supposed “bail out” is needed; THIS is the “scene” staged for US citizens; the media is manipulated MORE now than in Hitler’s day; folks THINKING they are getting the “news” when in reality they are not; they had a very large number of folks running around & changing the internet original archives; more are in the St Congress busy adding, amending, & deleting old laws; then claiming they “expired”; each state is segmented off; both parties folks are in total agreement as to what is transpiring; here is an example of how they work: the US Gov has done great harm to the military: what THEY then do is release a ‘news” article saying “this charity” has done harm to the vets” or the VFW has harmed the vets with “someone” allegedly claiming this & someone else that; it is all false; but the VFW is closed in S Ore & has been for a great long time; where are all the vets? “huge numbers “supposedly” committed suicide; remember the “briefcase” of listed military personnel taken from the FBI office? wonder how many of them are no longer around?

Hundreds of economist and scholars say it is not necessary, a few hole in the wall street gang members say it is, so who do the politicos listen to the wall street gang!

Can you say corruption!

So all the chickens come home to roost.  Our elected representatives have once again sold us down THEIR river.  It just shows we’re too stupid to live.

Now a credit card reign in is bad for business, but give the banks free reign with plus 7 hundred billion.  It would be nice if someone represented the people. No, we get Kernal Klink who used to run with the loose crowd of gamblers and loan sharks, asking for money to fix his broken house. Something stinks in Washington.

Yep, McCain represents you and I, he knows what it is like to have foreclosure on your home, he feels the pain, ... Oh, you he has not had any foreclosures on any of his unknown number of homes?

Wake up America throw the bums out. We need some major house cleaning and in the Senate too!

I wonder how long before we find out how much Preparation H is being used on the reaming of us citizens by our elected corporate shills? If only we Amerikans had the brains to do a national strike. No purchasing, no going to work, and no traveling.
The only way to beat the fascists bastards is to consume as little as possible…live frugally.

I had hoped that the public outcry, which seems to have been very widespread, might have given Congress pause, but they are too used to rolling over and playing dead now to resist the orders of their masters.  Now what?

According to what I read, major financial institutions are readying for collapse as the houses of cards they have become.
I know Im in the minority here, but at least there will be a little oversight and regulation of their greed, with the bailout plan enacted.

Reagan said, ‘let the markets reign and all will be well:’

McCain firmly believed the same thing, now he too is clamoring for more regulation.

Barack should be hammering him for his long association with Sen Gramm, who was instrumental as a big proponent for deregulation of the financial sector. Not to mention his incessant flip-flopping.

This crisis is yet another result of the neocon crap
that has been foisted on our nation since the Gipper.

God knows how many of their Shenanigans still remain secret,and what we may still be in for in this regard until next Jan.

You may or may not have noticed that HR5244 passed the House recently (The Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights). The bankers jumped up and down immediately. They want you and i to give them $700B to cover their bad bets on bad paper, but they cannot stand the thought that they’ll have to forewarn you about raising your interest rate; or only be able to charge the new rate on balances accrued after the rate hike; or give you more than 14 days between billing and the due date…or just treat the cardholder with some degree of fairness.

If this doesn’t prove that they’ll screw us all on the $700+B, then i don’t know what will.

Ah, so the end really is near.  So sad; too bad; we’re screwed!

It is so nice to know Colonel Klink is going to get his money, of course time is of the essence, at least we got this horrible thing over-with,  before the election, and Bush leaving the White House, Congress gets it’s break with a feeling of a job well done.  The final fleecing, so well done we do not even know it yet.   

Preventing this would have been so darn hard, regulations require something called work and to enforce rules what a pain.  Of course accountability is absent,  which reminds me of the Iraq war, seems they are always sellling and we are always buying,

Must say the, Chicken Little routine has been so very successful and now lucrative, I wonder who is driving the getaway car? 

“Nice windows you got here in your store,  boy, it sure would be shame if they broke.”  It used to be the Mob,  still is.