I don’t understand why there’s so much violence, even in this century, where we’re said to have been evolved. Why do we have to have war in order to gain peace? It’s like Zorba the Greek said: why do we put the flower seed in the muck?
Elisabeth Brittani - Niagara Falls Hotels manager

It’s true, there will be more sad stories about what’s going on in Pakistan, because people need territory all the time. Things shouldn’t have turned out the way they did, but not everything can be as peaceful and calm as their resorts in Hawaii.

A. Khokar,

Thank you for the link. Are you Pakistani? Please stay with us and provide us your perspective and your links to relevant stories from the Pakistani point of view. Unfortuanately, there will be more sad stories like this one with comments.

Your civility in the face of our ignorance is impressive and appreciated.

All,

I have written Truthdig, and I hope you will too, to complain about an editorial policy that takes this Pakistan story off the front page (and the comments by A. Khokar and his and my own links) and leaves the Kid Rock story up.

Maybe they should call it Truthbury.

cyrena,

You are welcome. It’s hard to keep up with US imperialism. We could all research our lives away and never know it all. Sad but true.

I want to clarify that I do not consider Obama an evil man at all. Actually, I admire him very much. He is simply a realist and does what he has to do to get power. I think his heart is in the right place, but even if he does really know what’s going on, he can’t say anything and get elected—or, alas, stay in power. I actually hope that he is very duplicitous and really wants to get in and change things. Unfortunately, even then his power will be very limited. The President only has real power when he does what the powerful want him to do. Step off the reservation and you will get killed like Kennedy or isolated like Carter (believe it or not, this even happened to Nixon!)Anyway, I would give a few years of my life to find out what Obama REALLY thinks.

I will probably vote for Obama. But I think when we hold his feet to the fire on Afghanistan, Pakistan and 911 (on which you and I very much agree) we are actually empowering him to do as much as he can.

Isolationism may not be the best thing in theory, but when the US is run by gangsters who carry the disease of arms, drugs and corporatist militarism all over the world, I think others are better off without our “help.”

When I said “where are the liberals?” I mean, why does the “progessive” press like Truthdig simply parrot a NY Times story on Pakistan and ignore the Pakistani’s view of the situation, as evidenced by my links and A. Khokar’s? Why do so many posters here obsess about the latest Sara Palin put-down and stay away from the evidence for US false flag ops in Pakistan? I thnk it is because they don’t wish to call attention to an embarrassing stand by their own candidate. (By the way, the Pakistan quote spoken on Obama’s behalf is very up-to-date.)

See my post on my email to Truthdig above. Cheers.

Dear All,

To see FATA a law less area is the prime aim of USA to enable her to make an advance in Pakistan. To throne the strategically vantage location in Pakistan, in order to attain a full grip on the area is the ultimate US goal. How CIA, India and Israel are working on it; the article by Asif Haroon Raja, published in Asian Tribune on September 21, 2008 gives us a full insight;

Link: http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/13336

Regards

omniadeo,

Thanks for the excellent info and Vietnam’s oil. I was unaware, and probably won’t have an opportunity to study anymore than what you’ve provided.

As for Obama and Afghanistan, that’s like…REALLY old. Like, what you quoted here, is what he’s been saying since the beginning, long before the War on Iraq was actually initiated. I’m talking about from as early as 2002, when the lead-up was in full swing. In fact, he has been exceedingly consistent on it. He’s said this same thing (maybe before Kerry went on and on about it in the 2004 elections, but maybe not).

Why is he so focused on Afghanistan? Well, that’s part of the same rhetoric of ‘finishing the job’. Kerry accused the Bush regime of ‘outsourcing’ the job to Pakistan. (tracking down al-Qaeda and bin Laden) and that’s certainly true as far as we can tell. (the $25 BILLION we’ve given them since October 1, 2001 sort of seems like there might be a connection there).

Do I happen to agree with Obama or anybody else in the mission to track down UBL and al-Qaeda? Nope. But, that’s because, unlike Obama, I don’t believe that al-Qaeda is responsible for the 9/11 attacks, and I think there needs to be a different plan to combat global terror. I don’t believe that non-State actors can be restrained via military force alone. And, I don’t believe in this so-called ‘war on terror’.

Now it ‘appears’ that Obama must buy into that, at least to a degree. HE seems to believe that this particular ‘terror element’ can be tracked down and eliminated. He certainly is NOT alone is recognizing that such elements DO exist, and that they exist there in the tribal areas that create that northern border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. I’m not offering this information as an excuse or a rationale. Rather, I’m explaining what we should now understand to be Obama’s ideology in the issue of global terror. (something that we also cannot deny exists, and has become 700% worse since the start of the so-called war against it).

As we know, Musharraf was no help, and why the US would select a MILITARY DICTATORSHIP as an ‘ally’ might be something that we should all question. Not many have to my knowledge.

Be that as it may, we can’t really have it both ways. In one post, you say ‘leave Pakistan alone’, and then in the next, you wonder where all of the US liberals are. Now maybe the last was just a rhetorical sort of question, so we can allow that to pass as such. Still, this is starting to sound like an either/or thing. Either we leave South Asia, along with the Middle East, and leave EVERYBODY alone, or not.

Now I’m real OK with just leaving everybody alone. I don’t know how practical that is, and I don’t know how MUCH it will help in the problems of global terrorism. Because, while I reject that global terror is an ‘Islamic’ thing, the fact of the matter is that it does exist, and these political acts of terror have existed for Centuries. (The Boston Tea Party caper was the first on what was then North American soil).

Now if we see this global terror as the political action that it is, there are some possible solutions. Like, address the root of the problem type solutions. I don’t see that happening either, but isolationism isn’t the answer.

Rightwing

@ September 20 at 10:48 am #

Where as the writing you have related is very touching and thought provoking. It is certainly attitude of passiveness of societies of the time that it results in expand and spread of such killing and anarchy in society—- but what about those who are busy killing in millions of innocents in the name of restoring peace for them. For example many millions perished in US atomic bomb strike in Japan. Millions were burnt to death by US areal incinerating bombardment in Vietnam. How many million are killed and still counting; in Iraq and Afghanistan by US lead forces to teach them the basics of Democracy and freedom of speech?

More from the Pakistani press.

http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicalnews/7422-what-was-mysterious-activity-going-on-in-the-marriott-hotel-islamabad-by-united-states-marines.html

They are not fooled. Where are the US liberals?

Where as USA prefers to have slavish like cooperation from its allies like Pakistan to avail their full cooperation on her dictated terms but it is a bad habit of US which frustrate all her allies that it invariably spoils the situation for them on ground and they are left to suffer, the consequences.

It is a known fact that in the FATA area of Pakistan; the fugitives of Al Qaeda as well as Taliban escaped from Afghanistan have got themselves organised into a dissident force in Pakistan. They are against US occupation in Afghanistan as they were earlier on against Russian occupation. It is a difficult task for Pakistan as a US ally to carry out cleansing of these dissident who are since found melted into fabric of Pakistani society; where the local population happens to be Pro-Taliban and are united in their stance to see US going out of Afghanistan.

Pakistan is extending its fullest cooperation and wants to sort out the prevalent turmoil for her own survival also. These dissidents have now turned against Pakistan and the worse situation is turning into the anarchy for which as per plan, Pak Army is carrying out a clean up operation. More than thousand Pakistani soldiers have been killed in operation and in thousands; dissident are also killed. Pak army is winning back the writ of its government very successfully; and ultimately peace will return.

But pity is that; USA is carrying out drone attacks and raids in same very area inside Pakistan which has since been won by Pak Army and order is restored. This is a most provocative action on part of USA to kill innocent peoples which amount to creating anarchy in area and Pakistan finds itself destabilized.

But probably destabilization of Pakistan and to see it in peril and finally disintegrated is the prime aim of USA. Attack on Marriott hotel is part of that big scheme.  After all; why America is here; just to win their hegemony! In Pakistan; USA may avails the best possible strategic location; poised to control the economic resources of area of Middle East and Central Asia; as well as to keep a check on the new emerging and re-emerging powers like India, china and old Russia.

Under the current precarious situations; in the forth coming meeting with President Bush of President Zardari of Pakistan; whether Zardari is able to win a grace full line for nation or will he also concede like Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt to for go its national rights in Middle east on the Suez Canal in 1956?

Cyrena,

Read the posts prior to mine and you will see that many mention and discuss Islam and its warlike nature as it pertains to this bombing. That’s what I meant by “Islam here.”

As to Vietnam, the Mekong rice production was very important to SE Asian and Asian geo-politics, but actually it had more to do with oil than you might think. The Japanese took the Dutch East Indies and Vietnam as part of their own resource and oil shortage strategy. It was shutting off US oil supplies to Japan that triggered the attack on Pearl Harbor. Oil was discovered off the coast of Vietnam and coastal drilling was invented at almost the same time as the end of French rule. Some research suggests that Laurence Rockefeller who was part of MacArthur’s staff in Japan was outraged when Ho Chi Minh (a US ally in WWII) decided to go with the Communist Party and nationalize oil after the US helped oust the Japanese and sold him weapons. (Yes the North Vietnamese fought us with our own weapons for the early part of that war.)

Anyway the interest of the US oil companies in Vietnam is well documented:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19710422&id=htANAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tnUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7046,750554

That said, US hegemony—or oil company hegemony—is the goal any way you cut it. On that we agree.

As to Obama, his website states:

“The scale of our deployments in Iraq continues to set back our ability to finish the fight in Afghanistan…”

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

Your idea that Obama might change on Pakistan is nice, but so far is contradicted by the facts. As recently as today, Tim Waltz spoke at a town hall meeting for the Obama campaign.

“Focus on the people who actually perpetrated 9-11 on us that’s taking this to Afghanistan and making sure Pakistan is brought into this,” Tim Walz.

http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S588543.shtml?cat=10219

Of course we can vote for anyone we want, but the reality is, as you yoursel have pointed out many times, in our system a vote for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for McCain, the worse of two evils.

RE: By omniadeo, September 21

•  “All the talk of “Islam” here is ridiculous. This is all about energy, land, ports and resources. When we wanted into Vietnam the same types of “incidents” occurred there.”

All the talk of “Islam” HERE? Yes, the talk of Islam IS ridiculous, but that’s been the case since Dick Bush and the neocons MADE it ‘all about Islam’. It’s NEVER been ‘about Islam’ so you’re sort of late catching up.

Same with the comparison to Vietnam - you’re off.  Yes, these incidents occurred there, and the lie of the Tonkin Gulf that kicked it off was one of them, but it wasn’t about land or energy or any other types of tangible ‘resources’. What ‘resources’ did Vietnam have..RICE? It wasn’t about rice, and it wasn’t about land. It was then, what it is now, and that is…US GLOBAL HEGEMONY! And it is being REJECTED!

That’s why the MARRIOT was blown up….a place frequented by Westerners. Remember, the MARRIOT is WESTERN. That’s why the USS Cole was bombed..it was in Yemen, where it had no business or authority to be. That’s what it’s ALWAYS about. It’s about the US insisting on being everywhere we aren’t invited.

But WAIT!! Maybe we *were* invited. I mean, the $25 BILLION of US taxpayer funds directly deposited into Musharraf’s account certainly wasn’t rejected. And, how long ago was that MARRIOT built in ISLAMABAD do you think? For nearly 8 years Dick Bush has supported the military dictatorship of Pakistan and used them to launder money, and NOW you say we should ‘leave Pakistan alone’? You’re damn skippy we should have left them alone long before NOW!

It would seem that you have a really severe case of historical dyslexia. You’re connecting the dots really poorly…dangerously so. Like this…

•  “Obama supporters. Remember: he may be the lesser of two evils—the only choices we are really allowed to consider; but he supports MORE incursions into Pakistan. Hold his feet to the fire.”

For starters, what Obama supporters should remember is that HE obviously wasn’t ‘in the loop’ on the false flag attacks of 9/11. So he didn’t authorize any action against Afghanistan, (because of 9/11)  and he didn’t authorize $25 billion worth of payments to Pakistan (because of 9/11) and we know that he was adamantly opposed to the destruction of Iraq, and the long planned destruction of Iran.

THAT would be the first thing for any American citizen to remember, at least those focused on Foreign Policy. (believe it or not, not ALL Americans give a shit about foreign policy, because far too many of us are too broke to pay attention to foreign policy).

YOU also DON’T KNOW that Obama ‘supports MORE incursions into Pakistan, because the political dynamics in Pakistan have drastically changed in the past few months, and Obama is prudent enough to pay attention to what it going on, and make CAUTIOUS decisions based on the realities of the moment. That moment won’t come until Obama is elected, inaugurated, and has an opportunity to directly communicate with the new leadership in Pakistan.

Meantime, when Americans begin marking their own ballots next month, and up through November 4th, I can promise you that less than half of them will have Pakistan on their minds.

That makes this constant refrain about the lesser of evils totally insignificant to the larger majority of voters, who don’t have a reason to conceive of it that way, because such a refrain is totally subjective, and relative to the individual mindset of the individual voter.

And BTW, “WE” still have a ‘choice’ to vote for whomever the hell ‘we’ wanna vote for..at least for now. So, speak for yourself if you don’t think you are ‘allowed’ a choice. Now dependent on how things go down, it may be the last time we DO have that choice.

omniadeo,

Many thanks for the links.

Why is it then whenever something terrible happens there seem to be US government personnel nearby?  A group of “Marines” (by the uniform i would imagine) spend half the evening fiddling with a collection of steel boxes that they won’t let anyone touch and won’t let go through the scanners.  Then the building blows up.

I’m not saying that the US blew up the Marriott (though i wouldn’t put it past us), but i do think that the contents of those boxes are pertinent.

Yes, Pakistan is too similar to Cambodia…historically speaking.  And it must be nerve racking to be a Pakistani politician, or just an average Pakistani…living with the knowledge that you’ve become a mere pawn in the Great Game, and one that the main player seems willing to sacrifice.

The lesson may be: never trust America.

Do NOT rely on US News sources for what is going on in Pakistan.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17401

Read the other articles in this paper (and elsewhere)as well. Zadari is trying to work out a niche for Pakistan balancing the interests of Iran, China and of course the US. Good luck.

The US is secretly pleased with this bombing. It may have helped create it. (We have done this throughout the world and we still do it.) The US actually wants a weak Pakistan and plenty of excuses to invade. It does not want China to get more hold of Pakistan.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=135622

Obama supporters. Remember: he may be the lesser of two evils—the only choices we are really allowed to consider; but he supports MORE incursions into Pakistan. Hold his feet to the fire.

Obama’s foreign policy is just the “liberal” wing of the CFR’s. Everyone now knows that we will withdraw major combat troops from Iraq (we will not “end the war there, Shenonymous, since even Obama calls for leaving troops there to fight “Al Qaeda” whatever that means). Obama et al specifically call for REDEPLOYING troops to Afghanistan, while keeping the option for illegal forays into Pakistan open.

All the talk of “Islam” here is ridiculous. This is all about energy, land, ports and resources. When we wanted into Vietnam the same types of “incidents” occurred there.

Leave Pakistan alone.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=137041

Interesting comments RightWing, aka Emanuel Tanay, M.D.  Confounding since you don’t sound so right-wing.  Is that a ruse?  Anyway, the watchers of the unfolding who only pay attention and just forward emails don’t do enough.  You all may also make your self heard at http://www.amnestyusa.org/
or keep your ear to the ground at http://www.un.org/issues/
Issues on the UN Agenda and make your self heard there as well especially at the Humanitarian Affairs site at http://www.un.org/comments.html

Well maybe there are plenty of us who are not the “average Obama supporter” but I do agree that the peaceful Muslim, if there are any, and I do know a few, has responsibility too to end the mayhem their terrorist brethren are perpetrating.  Just as it is the responsibility of Americans to stop the illegal war in Iraq. We will do it in the voting booth in November!  There were some not-so-Nazi Germans who resisted the horror and helped Jews during the war.  They cannot be forgotten, anonymous as they may be.

The number of slaughtered in Iraq is always an ambiguous thing depending on who is doing the reporting.  Amazing!  Here is a site to check this out http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/, as of today, 1,267,401 Iraqi deaths due to U.S. invasion! 4, 168 American Military, total wounded American 30,642 (just imagine how much it will cost the American taxpayer to try to bring these soldiers to health! and maybe never will!)  The cost of the war goes on and on and on infinitely.  Not that that is the most important thing, the number of human lives lost is.  But those hypocrites who claim to be pro-lifers who support this murderous war are deranged.

It is an insanity that is driving this tragic theatrical episode.  My mamma always said it takes two to tango, well, maybe not in this case…as long as this continues, we are all tangoing, Americans and Arabs alike.

@ RightWing;

Sounds like the average American to me!

That’s a pretty good attempt at telling the “big lie”, there RightWing.

Let me be clear about something: you’re not a conservative.  You may be right wing (fascist) and you may be a Republican, but you’re not a conservative.

A real conservative (like Paul Craig Roberts, Pat Buchanen, John Dean, Ron Paul, and others) would be speaking out against the havoc that we’ve been wreaking under our big-government, borrow and squander, socialist-Republican administration.

Let me rephrase for you…and the Republican who does not stand up against the Republican that is creating this havoc, is nothing but a coward, afraid to speak against his own,afraid to have a real opinion, just sheep like. sounds like the average Republican.

my heart goes out their families and friends.

Yes David White ,Your right it is not Islam that is doing the stoning and killing and bombing, it is the fanatics that read what they want to into it.And the majority of them happen to be Muslim. and the Muslim who does not stand up against the Muslim that is creating this havoc, is nothing but a coward, afraid to speak against his own,afraid to have a real opinion, just sheep like. sounds like the average Obama supporter.

man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates.
 
When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.
 
‘Very few people were true Nazis,’ he said, ‘but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen.
 
Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.’
We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant.
 
It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and
homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.
The hard quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ‘silent majority,’ is cowed and extraneous.
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of
about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant.
China’s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way
across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.
And, who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were ‘peace loving’?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:
Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.
Peace-loving Germans,Japanese,Chinese,Russians, Rwandans, Serbs,Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many
others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.
As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on!  Let us hope that thousands, world wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it’s too late.
Emanuel Tanay, M.D.