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Candidates Debate Economy as Banks FailPosted on Sep 15, 2008
While John McCain took heat for reasserting that “the fundamentals of the economy are strong,” two of the five biggest American investment banks folded on Monday. Bank of America bought out troubled Merrill Lynch while Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy. That left some wondering when the presidential candidates are going to get serious about the economic meltdown. Update: The market lost more than 500 points on the day’s news, and mega-insurer AIG has started to wobble.
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By Rgyle, September 17, 2008 at 3:47 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Go Big B!
I read Philips book and have heard him speak on the same. Empires never last, because they’re anti-evolutionary, they’re stuck on themselves. The suffering they render blows back eventually.
Today we hear of the AIG bailout. (too bad Lehman, Monday wasn’t your day) This means we, the workers (who McMarx correctly states are the “fundamentals” of our economy) and legitimate taxpayers of this country, are being forced, in the interest of “stability,” to take on the debt of reckless, greedy Wall Street gamblers, who used OPM for their own risky get-rich-quick schemes. Schemes facilitated by ending regulation and allowing regular banks to merge with investment firms and operate in secret. They must have known the government (us) would underwrite their failures, whether we like it or not.
Until we are mostly saints, humans are not deserving of free markets or any kind of absolute freedom. We must be regulated, just like we regulate our children, which, unfortunately, is what too many adult humans still are.
These Gordon Gecko wannabes should get the same as what Gecko got (as implied in the movie Wall Street: prison time. Screw these gambler bailouts. Game over, you lost. Besides, a little instability might shake us up enough to finally wake us up.
At least we’re moving away from the Palin smoke screen.
Report thisBy Folktruther, September 16, 2008 at 2:31 pm #
You’re right, Jackpine, Clinton is also partly responsible for our debt and economic condition.
Do you happen to know of any analysis of how much our military bases and wars overseas contribute to the trade deficit, or economic debt?
Report thisBy Fahrenheit 451, September 15, 2008 at 9:10 pm #
@ Big B;
You may have a point, but, I would suggest the poor in this country outnumber the population of any banana republic. We’re just too fat and lazy.
Report thisBy Fahrenheit 451, September 15, 2008 at 9:00 pm #
Well, lets all pray real hard; then we need to start a war with Nigeria because they are godless and we’ll pay for it with their oil.
Report thisBy Big B, September 15, 2008 at 8:57 pm #
heavyrunner,
I think the reason that revolution will be more difficult to start here is that we have more to lose than than the people of the banana republics(they are poor as shit after all)
I think we just haven’t fallen far enough yet.
Bring on McCain! that otta do it!
Report thisBy Big B, September 15, 2008 at 8:49 pm #
Unregulated capitalism fall down and go BOOM!
Kevin Phillips in his book “American Theocracy” described the downfall of all the great empires of the last millenium. All, the Spanish, Dutch, and English fell when they stopped producing their own goods and took up the business of counting money instead of making it.(sound familiar?) They collapsed under the weight of maintaining huge empires. They went into dept up to their eyeballs to try and maintain the lifestyles to which they had become accostomed. They exhausted their natural resourses and were forced to fight expensive foreign wars to aquire more.
Yup, we’re just about there.
Report thisBy heavyrunner, September 15, 2008 at 8:48 pm #
“You say you want a revolution!”
There are other ideas besides the Washington Consensus. Latin America save Peru and Columbia have figured that out.
Why can’t we?
Report thisBy Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, September 15, 2008 at 8:40 pm #
This just in:
McCain: “The fundamentals of the economy are strong.”
It turns out the “fundamentals” as redefined by the Merriam Webster neocon Bush administration 90% ally, McCain, is construed to mean, “the American worker.”
And since Obama is criticizing the fundamentals of the American economy, he’s—get this—criticizing the American worker.
I know how proud of John all you McCain supporters must be. He’s a real gem!
Report thisBy Margaret Currey, September 15, 2008 at 7:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
I can tell you why McShame is winning, he wants to win at any cost, will say anything, distort and outright lie to win, get a woman on the ticket and let her show a lot of leg, that will get the mens attention.
I can say that both sides exergrate but the one over the top (are we all that stupid) is that Obama says Kintagarden children should have sex education like how the sex act is done, very crazy, but children should know about imappropriae touching and I believe things can be explained according to the age of the children, but I look at the direction of this country and if a person gets elected on sound bites and the shape of legs then this country will certainly go under.
How much is this country in debt to another country.
Should the richest top percent of taxpayers get th best deal?
I know that this is not the country of our Founding Fathers. Since when it great that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
If there are no jobs except for Wall Street than this country is heading for a fall.
Report thisBy Xntrk, September 15, 2008 at 7:36 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
It is a giant conundrum for everyone, and the younger generations are completely unprepared. The whole population, under 50, is about as ready for the financial hurricane as Galveston was for Ike. Those of us over 50, and especially those around 70, should have more assets then just the clothes on their backs, but maybe not.
Owning my home free and clear, never borrowing unless I could pay cash, and trying to hide some cash, altho it will not be worth much when inflation hits, helps. At least I am probably not facing homelessness - and I have an advantage of a defined benefit pension - If it’s not at Merryll Lynch…
My kids tho, even the ones who know not to believe everything they read, are going to be hammered. Our society has gone dancing down the yellow brick road toward the Emerald City. Cheerfully giving up any security for the new line of credit. The low-interest, never pay back loan,
The human mind was never designed to withstand 24 hours a day of glitzy propaganda pushed by a bunch of drug lords. Even the strongest find themselves weakening when a Clinton seems to stave of disaster and show us that we really won’t have to worry about “pay back”
Eight years later, the delayed payment is coming due - and everyone knows that “Payback is a Bitch”
Report thisBy jackpine savage, September 15, 2008 at 7:27 pm #
Actually, diamond, Clinton did not fix Reagan’s mess at all. Economic fundamentals were unsound when he took office, but his administration never addressed that. The surplus you speak of was nothing more than a budget surplus, and it must be weighed against him leaving office with the largest trade deficit in US history.
Much of the deregulation of the financial markets happened under his watch. And the manufacturing base that would best pull us out of this mess was ridden out of town.
The Republicans are far more to blame than the Democrats for the current mess, but the latter gets plenty of blame too.
Report thisBy Alan, September 15, 2008 at 6:40 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Bridge on the River Nowhere:
They can’t run an economy,
Report thisthey can’t run a train,
they can’t find what’s his name,
and we should put that crowd in its
Aridzona-Alaska form back in office?
Madness!
Madness!
Even a died in the wool,
wool pulled over his eyes
devote’ of j.h.c. should see that it’s
Madness!
Madness!
By diamond, September 15, 2008 at 6:19 pm #
What astounds me is that so many Americans think that the republicans are good economic managers, in spite of the mess Reagan left that wasn’t fixed until Bill Clinton fixed it, leaving a huge surplus when he left office. The Republicans have spent it all and gone into huge debt to finance their attempt to take over the world. They are not conservatives, they are radicals with more in common with the Nazis and the Communists than any traditional conservatives. On the other hand all conservatives want to cut taxes for the rich and wage war. That’s why I’ve never voted for them. Lehman Brothers are just the first big one to go: there will be many others. I’m going to be getting chickens and planting a vegetable garden. McCain and Palin have no plans to alter the disastrous course Bush and Cheney have been on for eight years, either financially or militarily. That’s frightening.
Report thisBy kath cantarella, September 15, 2008 at 6:08 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
You know, in Biblical terms, this election has shown a lot of signs that McCain is not God’s favoured candidate. And yet the Christian right are not paying attention… If the situation wasn’t so terrible, i’d laugh.
Report thisWe see what we want (or expect) to see, instead of what’s there. Without dogma and prejudice, we all, for the most part, have similar ethics. We just let bullshit get in the way.
Let’s all declare war on bullshit!
By Jim Yell, September 15, 2008 at 4:48 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
We had a very good instruction what happens when risky business is allowed and encouraged way back when the God Reagan allowed the removal of enforcement and regulation of the Savings and Loans, without removing the pledge that the government would make up the resulting failures.
So why is everyone so surprised at this redux? You can not trust the investment community to be responsible if being irresponsible is so much more profitable and you have to remember that they are looking into the future only 3 months ahead, so of course their crimes will blindside them even though if they had had a long view they would have known what was coming and maybe even when.
Perhaps they are surprised that the fall is looking to be big enough to create a repeat on an even vaster scale than 1929. Destroying the country should be treason and these short sighted, greedy jerks should be made to pay.
Report thisBy libertarian, September 15, 2008 at 4:46 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Maybe three years ago, while housing prices were high, the economy was sufficiently sound. The President and Congress had a choice to conserve wealth and lead by example, stopping the credit-card spending. They decided to lead every greedy or naive type into deep leverage and possible financial ruin with their abysmal spending/borrowing habits. The average investor has, so far in 2008, followed the broad market in losing $17 of every $100 invested in stocks. His home has dropped 30% in value, inflation (pegged by the Fed as 4%) is actually around 30% per year…figure the doubling of electric rates, gasoline, home heating-oil and food costs. Your Social Security check supposedly adds-in a cost-of-living increase every year. Wanna bet?
Report thisBy Aegrus, September 15, 2008 at 4:21 pm #
He’s not winning. The polls are skewed. McCain*Pain will lose in the fall. Mark my words!
Report this