missing her soldier—I am sorry for al of this. I’m sorry we didnt protest in greater numbers. He should not have to be there at all.

Shell Oil just signed on for 49% of the oil in Iraq today. Bush ( who looked hungover) should have just said, “Mission Accomplished”.

The unstated implication of Truthdig and other mainstream Dems of the US military staying in Iraq under Bush is that this would not be the case under Obama-Biden.

This is flatly untrue.  Obaden is firmly in the Zionist neo-lib camp and will transfor the combat brigades from Iraq to Afghan, where they will escalate the war to Pakistan.  The two hundred thousand private Contractors will stay there along with an excess of a hundred thousand government troops.  The war with Pakistan will increase and the military attacks now occuring against Iran will continue. 

Biden is a Zionist war monger and was selected by Obama to oversee these wars, as Cheney did for Bush.
This assured him of Zionist financial and media support.

The increased military expenditures preclude any significant increase of demestic spending on the population.  Any unrest will be met with American gunmen: police, military, Contractors, intellignece agencies, and vigilantes.

The Bush Reforms are permanent.  The US is now a poloice state supported by both political parties.  It is a new form of police state, with liberal covering of Democratic institutions drained of people power.  Just as the Roman Senate continued under the Roman Empire, devoid of power, so Congress and the judiciary hnve been neutered by the Gop neocons and this is accepted by the Dem neolibs.

The American population must mobilize against BOTH of the parties of the American power system.

re: Marshall, September 8 at 5:01 pm
“The right time to go is when there’s no chance of a recurrence of why you were there in the first place.”

well, well. well, why don’t you refresh our ‘leftist’ memories and give us the many “why you were there in the first place” reasons….  was it:

Iraq was about to attack the U.S.?
alleged WMD’s ?
‘we don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud”?
Establishing Democracy in Iraq?
Intelligence that was demonstrably in error pre-invasion and ignored?
Removal of Saddam Hussein?
Bringing democracy to the Middle East?
Terrorist linkage that didn’t exist?
‘Yellow Cake’ uranium?
aluminum tubes?
mobile bio-warfare units?

.. or was it that Iraq was always a war of choice for control of the oil fields, to pre-empt OPEC… a grand scheme by a bunch of short sighted neo-cons who had been wanting to invade Iraq for years? and… sub contract out the war to their corporate friends and bleed the U.S. Treasury,.. install inept and clueless loyalists to run the occupation..

Bush & Co. felt that any state who did not commit to the War on Terror could be seen as a potential threat to their interests and a threat to the international community leading to the concept of ‘premptive war’.

V.P. Cheney had written in the early 90’s about why Bush ‘the older’ didn’t invade Iraq, and amazingly gave a clear analysis of the problems that lay in wait for anyone who occupied Iraq.. all which turned out to be accurate.

Just another Monday in peaceful old Iraq

From www.mcclatchydc.com/212/story/52043.html

Round-up of Daily Violence in Iraq - Monday 8 September 2008
By Laith Hammoudi | McClatchy Newspapers

The daily Iraqi violence report is compiled by McClatchy Newspapers Special Correspondents in Baghdad from police, military and medical reports. This is not a comprehensive list of all violence in Iraq, much of which goes unreported. It’s posted without editing as transmitted to McClatchy’s Washington Bureau.

Baghdad

Eleven civilians were injured by a roadside bomb in al Shabaka intersection in Palestine Street in east Baghdad around 7:00 a.m.

Around 7:45 a.m. Gunmen In New Baghdad neighborhood in east Baghdad opened fire targeting a vehicle for the ministry of displaced people migrants injuring four employees (3 females employees and the driver of the vehicle).

The guards of the minister of displaced people and migrants opened fire randomly in al Muthanna airport Street in downtown Baghdad killing a woman and inuring six civilians.

A civilian was killed and two people (a civilian and a policeman) were injured by an IED that targeted a police vehicle in al Wathiq intersection in Karrada neighborhood in downtown Baghdad around 8:30 a.m.

Two civilians were injured by an adhesive bomb that was attached to a vehicle of the emergency battalion in Palestine Street around 2:00 p.m.

Gunmen threw a grenade towards a sedan car in Qahtan intersection in west Baghdad injuring two civilians who were in the car.

Police found one unidentified body in Sadr city.

Nineveh

On Sunday evening; a parked car bomb exploded in Qaiyara area south of Mosul targeting the commander of Hammam al Aleel training camp Colonel Yaseen Majeed. Majeed was injured with another two companions.

Two policemen were injured by an IED in Dorat al Yarmouk neighborhood in Mosul city on Sunday evening.

Gunmen opened fire upon the house of the deputy of Mosul governor Khisro Koran (Kurdish politician from the PDK Party) in al Faisaliyah neighborhood in east Mosul city. No casualties were reported.

A member of Rabi’a Sahwa council in of west of Mosul was injured by an adhesive bomb that was attached to his car on Sunday evening.

Gunmen killed a traffic police near his house in al Hadba’a neighborhood in west Mosul on Monday morning

A policeman was killed and four civilians were injured by a parked car bomb that targeted a police patrol in Bab Sinjar area west of Mosul city around 12:00 p.m. ten cars were damaged by the explosion.

Policemen opened fire upon a suicide car bomber who tried to attack a police check point in Um al Rabiain area west of Mosul city around 1:00 p.m.

Diyala

Gunmen attacked the house of Raad Rasheed; the Sahwa leader in Shirween area north of Baquba on Monday morning. The gunmen kidnapped Rasheed. While the patrols from the Iraqi army were chasing the kidnappers, a roadside bomb exploded. Three Iraqi soldiers were injured.

A civilian was killed by US army when he came from a bystreet driving his car towards US forces in downtown Baquba around 11:30. US military confirmed the incident.

Salahuddin

Two people were killed and four others were injured when a suicide car bomber attacked a police checkpoint in Biji city north of Tikrit city around 4:30 p.m.

Basra

A civilian was injured by a roadside bomb that targeted a convoy of the MNF in Baghdad Street in west Basra around 9:00 p.m.

They have slaves there folks: same “if they ever get their act together” BS Gov with the Corps; the US Gov has huge Taj Mahall type embassy with 3000 servants working for them; they people have NO electricity or running water; the Corps & folks at the top with friends & family have all the $; there are no insurgents there; only folks fighting a dictatorship they say is thousands of times worse than under Saddam Hussain; Bush said we prefer to be known as dysfunctional instead of dictatorship; (but we’ve gotten away with it in the USA for years: so we will change our goal from “democracy” to peace; so extremely sad; no one in the USA seems to care that millions of people in other countries are dying cuz of our Gov; they keep saying “our country is the greatest in the world!” at doing what? deceiving the population of it’s own country; lying, misleading, cheating, robbing; poisoning, all for the pocket books of the wealthy! and the people have nothing here either; tragically: 2007 American Idol donated BOOKS to a school in Georgia that never had any books in it’s school library; so: I ask again: what is our country the greatest for?

By Gmonst, September 8 at 5:31 pm
1 of 2
•  “Remind me exactly why that was again, the WMD? To liberate them from Saddam? To defeat Al Qada?  To keep a civil war from happening? Or to make sure the oil is controlled “indefinitely?””
I think you got them all Gmonst, and even in the right order. First it was the WMD, and how Saddam was this really big threat to us, all of these miles and Oceans and Deserts away. Then, the moment the illegal attack/invasion/shock and awe part was done, and we began setting up for the equally illegal permanent occupation of a sovereign nation state, it was about giving them ‘democracy’.  Then it became the “Central Front on Terrorism”, and we had to fight back the al-Qaeda dudes, who were NEVER THERE before Dick Bush invited them, (Saddam held them at bay or at desert for decades) and then it became a matter of the civil/sectarian strife, ALSO CAUSED BY THE INVASION/OCCUPATION. Then it was to give them (the Iraqis) some ‘breathing room’ to get their affairs back in order, except that of course they never got any of that ‘breathing room’ because we’re still there. They won’t get anything close to that until we leave, for the same reasons that we’re entirely responsible for the destruction to begin with.
So, those are all of the ‘ostensible’ reasons that we’re there, and the real agenda, the very barely hidden agenda all along, is the last ‘reason’ you mentioned. THE OIL. Because of course, THAT’S the real reason the Thugs in DC are there to begin with. And leaving has NEVER been part of the real agenda. They’ve built the largest Embassy ON THE GLOBE there, the green zone stands (or spreads) into what has become the US Capitol of Iraq, while the rest has been forcibly pushed into squalor. And while that CONTINUES to happen…the building of the walls around entire neighborhoods, and that’s only after at least a third of the population has been either murdered or left permanently wounded, and another third either externally or internally displaced. And, as GW declares according to the piece, they aren’t planning on leaving.

And Al asks –very legitimately I might add- ‘What the hell are we doing?” Well, let’s just consider what this sounds like, from historical events of the past and present. So, what does *that* all sound like? It’s happened before. Lots of times. On going models that give these same real-life misery results.
BUT, here’s the part of the article that literally scared the shit out of me, and that was covered in the intro to the piece. All that jumped out at me, was that GW and his handlers are planning continued involvement beyond January 21, 20009. This cannot be allowed to happen, but that’s what I’ve been saying for 8 years already.

It keeps happening.

Some might accuse others of histrionics when the fairly routine concern comes up, about whether or not we’ll even HAVE an election or the changing of an administration. That’s been a perfectly legitimate and reasonable fear as far as I’m concerned. GW making speeches to this effect don’t help. The reality is that he’s making a speech on what he intends to still be in the process of doing, and promises HE will still be doing NEXT FEBRARY!!!

2 of 2
Why are we feeling any confidence that even if we have an election, Dick Bush still isn’t going to leave the White House, or our government? That’s how deeply they’ve entrenched themselves. And even if there was a way to cut off the head of the beast, (which is the way to eliminate the most sophisticated of terrorists’ cells) there’s still usually the apparatus left over from the corrupt and/or terrorists regimes that have finally been unseated. The Chileans of Pinochet’s rule of terror were left with that, even after he was deposed and ran off to Europe, having pardoned himself and whomever he choose in his regime.
I’m honestly *not* the overly paranoid type. But I’m not so stupid that I can’t see what’s happening right in front of my own eyes..and being victimized (like millions and millions of others) but what it is that I’m seeing, all at the same time.
This is beyond Orwellian, and I don’t have a descriptor for it. Maybe Stephen King can come up with something for what this is going on…the reality of which says that we are so close to the edge of the abyss, that it’s like any moment now, and we could just be falling as fast as those towers did on 9/11/01. That’s how close we are to doing this very radical/fatal crash ending, instead of a safe landing, that at least keeps injuries and damages to a minimum.
I don’t know what is more appropriate to 9/11 than where we are right now. Maybe it’s just me. I would like to think so, since that would be a relief. But then, WOULD IT? Just ‘cause other folks don’t have enough sense to be terrified, (well they are, but by the wrong stuff) doesn’t mean that there’s anything to be ‘relieved’ about. It’s just that much more ominous and beyond creepy. I know I’ve said it before, but this is the kind of stuff that should scare the shit out of EVERY even semi-conscious person.

In other words, these thugs aren’t planning on going anywhere away from our government, any more than they ever planned to ‘leave’ Iraq, before they did the age old ‘conquer and rule’ strategy.

By Gmonst, September 8 at 5:31 pm #

Depends on what you mean by “in Iraq”.  No one (even Obiden) denies we’ll have a European-esque presence there for decades; SOME kind of presence.  But by the same token, no one (even McPalin) is calling for indefinite occupation.  And there’s a big difference between the two.

Why we’re there is now a subset of why we went; we’re there to maintain peace and allow the establishment of democratic self-governance.  It was always a stated reason and continues to be and references to this fact are easily accessible.  But it requires being there until it’s complete.  Details are worked out with Malaki (or whoever succeeds him) as we’re now doing.  By “listen” to him, I assume you mean stop negotiating forces agreement with him and leave?

As to current violence; i don’t get my info from private news sites.  Legitimate casualty stats are readily available and paint a picture of significant reduction in violence.  No one on either ticket disputes this.  Self-governance however is still an open question.

By Al, September 8 at 5:58 pm #

You say Malaki is in agreement with Obama without knowing a) the details of what Malaki wants, and b) the details of what Obama would do.  Lots of suppositions there… all while he’s negotiating with Bush.  Too many variables for you to know.  All that we’ll know is the final agreement, then this discussion will be moot.

What truthdig does NOT say is that the US will try to maintain troops in Iraq indefinitely under Obama-Biden as well.  In addition to 150, ooo government troops there are two hundred thousand Contractors, all of which have bases.  These are not permanent bases, they are in neocon speak Enduring Bases. 

Biden wants to divide the country up into three parts to maintain US control, as he helped do to Yugoslavia.  This will not be done without more fighting.

The only way the US will leave Iraq is the way the US left Vietnam; by war abroad and demonstrations at home.

We will be in Iraq for about 30 more years. That is the best guess of former Exxon and chevron geologists as to how many years of oil are left under the ground there. Don’t kid yourselves folks, our military bases in Iraq run the length of the pipline for a reason. Our boy’s are dying and being wounded so that we can drive our cars.(but they knew that going in, didn’t they?)
It’s good to free, to consume oil byproducts.

Republicans have clued in on how to play the game. I’m not talking football; baseball or Yankees verse the Red Sox.
This is even more titillating to the American TV viewer and the ratings show proof that it’s working. The game or what I should say is the show is Reality TV, yep America’s favorite forget the real world and join the land of the comatose.
How could the Democrats have gotten it so wrong when all signs pointed left?
They forgot that Republicans rule corporate America and therefore the media has always been their playing field. The stars are now in place and all that is left is the person booted off the island i.e. Barack Obama , yes the guy with the funny name…
Just remember America when the show finishes you get to keep more of the same or if you’re really lucky someone who thinks,
“Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America; he’s worried that someone won’t read them their rights.”
With these repercussions has shown on The BBC, who needs change?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pO8ns68l6s

Marshall,

I am a lefty but I am not confused by indefinitely and infinitely.  I know we won’t be in Iraq 1000 years from now, but we could be in 15, 25, or even 50.  You say the right time to go is when “there’s no chance of a recurrence of why you were there in the first place.” Remind me exactly why that was again, the WMD? To liberate them from Saddam? To defeat Al Qada?  To keep a civil war from happening? Or to make sure the oil is controlled “indefinitely?”
The reasons for being there have changed about as often as my underwear.  We have no defined goal for success, we don’t even have clearly defined enemy.  Its all a load of crap, they didn’t plan on leaving at any time and they still don’t.  So I suppose they built those enduring bases just in the off chance things don’t calm down quickly.  Iraq has not been peaceful at anytime since we invaded.  Despite the surge it remains a place of extreme daily violence.  Check out juancole.com and read the daily violence which you won’t hear about on the nightly news.  It never should have started and no amount of dreaming about some vague sense of victory is going to make it right.  In my view the only course which has some decency is to listen to the Iraqis and get out of their country and then help them rebuild on their terms.  It seems to me they deserve at least that much respect.

Most of your lefty readers will confuse “indefinitely” with “infinitely”.  but let me just say that given the military’s recommendation that NO troops be withdrawn within 6 mos., Bush actually bucked the consensus of his experts on this one.  No matter - the reason he and McCain are winning the argument is that most americans recognize the difference between premature retraction and full release at the right time.  The right time to go is when there’s no chance of a recurrence of why you were there in the first place.  But then the left will have some serious egg on its face if Iraq remains peaceful.