BlueEagle, August 18

BE, I decided I’d goof off a bit here, and see if I could find anything that might confirm the crystal ball predictions for a ‘no change’ and endless war Obama. I did find a little bit of stuff. No match to this though:

• “…Unfortunately, Obama backs the missile offence plan.”

Specifically not this:

• “It’s sad, but a vote for Obama is a vote for more wars and the illusion of peace.”

July 08, 2008

“WASHINGTON—Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said Tuesday that Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain told him that he would carry out the Bush administration’s missile defense plans in Poland if he were elected.

But Sikorski received no such assurances from Democratic candidate Sen. Barack Obama. Though the two spoke by phone Monday, Sikorski said he avoided discussing missile defense, the most urgent issue in Polish-American relations.

“I did not think it was my business in my first conversation with him to raise a controversial issue,” Sikorski told The Associated Press.

The Obama campaign also said the issue did not come up in a conversation that touched on Poland’s military contributions to missions in Iraq and Afghanistan among other issues.

The Polish government is nervous that any deal it reaches with the Bush administration to allow the United States to install interceptors on Polish soil could be abandoned by the next administration.

link
http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2008/07/obama _avoids_missile_shield_in.html

Then this:

Republican Presidential candidate John McCain has expressed strong support for missile defense in nations “like Czechoslovakia” See today’s US Key Articles, and has even stated that China and Russia are potential “strategic competitors” See today’s US Key Articles.

Candidate Barack Obama is harder to read on the issue of missile defense. As the Washington Post’s William Arkin has pointed out, Obama has made few statements about the issue except that he supports a system for Israel. When it comes to Russia, Obama states on his campaign website that he would work with Russia on non-proliferation, and work to “set a goal to expand the U.S.-Russian ban on intermediate-range missiles.”

http://www.secure-x-001.net/SecureGeo/Issue/SecureObse rvationComments.asp?IssueFunction=108&IssuDate=5/29/200 8&Site=109&Portal=1

Based on what I’ve been able to find so far, there’s nothing to indicate, (including on his website) that he ‘backs’ this missile defense plan or more wars.

He *is* however, still pursuing talks with Iran. Remember he’s been pushing that in place of ‘obliterating’ them, for at least a year now. Got a lot of flack for suggesting it too.

Obama wants Iran talks, McCain missile shield
Tehran’s long-range missile launch creates concern for Israel, U.S. bases

WASHINGTON - The two main presidential candidates agreed Wednesday that Iran’s missile tests call for renewed pressure on that country, but Democrat Barack Obama stressed direct diplomacy while Republican John McCain focused on tougher sanctions against Tehran.
Obama called for a continued package of carrot-and-stick incentives to dissuade the Iranians from pursuing nuclear weapons while putting more emphasis on diplomatic talks.

“At this point, the report is unclear, it’s still early,” Obama said on “The Early Show” on CBS. “What this underscores is the need for ... a clear policy that is putting the burden on Iran to change behavior. And frankly, we just have not been able to do that the last several years, partly because we’re not engaged in direct diplomacy.”

Full report and video here from the horse’s mouth:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25600798/

From the horses mouth at least, there still isn’t any clear sign of the crystal ball claims that are being made in his name on blogs.

Not sure where the breakdown is. Maybe a personal preference NOT for Obama?

Blue Eagle, would you be willing to provide a link to where you obtained the information that you included here:

Unfortunately, Obama backs the missile offence plan.
“The deal would further divide European countries into what Barack Obama’s foreign policy adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski calls openly, US “vassals” and those pursuing more independent policies.”
“Any illusions that a Democratic Obama Presidency would mean a rollback of such provocative NATO and US military moves of recent years should be dismissed as wishful thinking. Obama’s foreign policy team in addition to his controller Zbigniew Brzezinski, includes Brzezinski’s son, Ian Brzezinski, current US Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for European and NATO Affairs. Ian Brzezinski is a devout backer of US missile offence policy, as well as Kosovo independence and NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia. “
Next move on Brzezinski’s grand chessboard… Russia will send missiles to Cuba repeating the 1962 Cuba Missile crisis. The threat of sanctions will only accelerate the process.
It’s sad, but a vote for Obama is a vote for more wars and the illusion of peace.
~~~~~~

I’m just trying to keep track of fact and opinion, (or what I occasionally call fortune telling) I admit that I can’t predict Obama’s future actions (especially in terms of waging war on the world) as assuredly as so many here on this board. So, I must not be getting the right information, especially if I’m mostly tuned into what HE actually says, and less inclined to gage his own actions based on the previous actions of his CAMPAIGN advisors.

Even when I try, I come up with obvious contradictions. Like for instance, a couple of weeks ago, everybody was ranting and railing about Obama’s suggestion to send more troops to the Afghanistan Pakistan border, even though he isn’t the president yet, and wouldn’t be able to accomplish such a thing until (at the earliest) Jan 21st, 2009, which is still 5 months away, and of course things could change by then. Still, I thought I’d check out what his ‘advisers’ thought about that, since the going theme seems to be that Obama will just do whatever Brzezinski tells him to do. I’m not so sure of that at all, but maybe I have a different conception of what a foreign policy (or any other policy) ‘adviser’ does. When I have professionals ‘advising’ me, that’s what they do. They give me information that I need to make my own decisions.

Be that as it may, I was able to come across an ‘opinion’ by ZBig, on the Afghanistan thing. He doesn’t think it’s a good idea. I can’t find the original source for it right now, but here’s a portion from the original interview/report

http://hootsbuddy.blogspot.com/2008/07/brzezinski-on-a fghanistan.html

So, I wondering if you know how we can determine from actually comments, that Obama definitely ‘backs’ the missile shield program, (which I also agree is a bad move) and how we can be so certain that he will engage in endless war, and that Zbig will start to jack around with Cuba again. I’m finding the last part a bit far-fetched, even for a recently tuned crystal ball.

It doesn’t jive with anything so far come from the horse’s mouth, at least that I’ve read or heard.

Bush and Condi are the only Americans I know who support a provocative Georgia.

It’s a shame innocent people got hurt.

I love it.  We tell the world that we can do whatever we want and in the same breath tell the world that it must do what we say. Really, it’s time that the rest of the world sent us to our room, without dinner.  Congress refuses to send Bush/Cheney to their rooms so who else is left?

I’m rolling on the floor with laughter[while making sure I have extra food and weapons stashed in the basement]at the mental image of bullsh*t and condom-sleaza SHAKING their respective penises at RUSSIA...Do these IDIOTS even care how STUPID THEY LOOK TO THE REST OF THE WORLD???

Too true, Blue Eagle, but then we never should have expected a Democratic administration to back off the provocation of Russia.  After all, the provocation began under a Democratic administration...after two Republican administrations promised not to move Nato east.

I commented on this in the Paul Craig Roberts thread, but it is important to recognize that the missile “defense” shield is actually an offensive weapon...designed for and deployed against Russia.  It has nothing to do with rogue missiles from Iran or N. Korea. (which probably wouldn’t fly over Poland to target Europe or America)

The Democratic Party is every bit as beholden to the MIC as the Republican.  And it has never been an anti-war party.

Gmonst - I am with you 100%. I too want to stop the wars of aggression and insanity of Bush’s handlers.

Unfortunately, the change will not come with a changing of the guard. Obama will just move the pieces around the grand chessboard.

As the US wages a proxy war against Russia in Georgia, Washington plans to place 10 “interceptor” missiles in Poland coupled with a radar system in the Czech Republic, which it claims are intended to counter possible attacks from what it calls “rogue states,” including Iran. Military strategists have pointed out, the US missiles in Poland pose a total existential threat to the future existence of the Russian nation.

Unfortunately, Obama backs the missile offence plan.

“The deal would further divide European countries into what Barack Obama’s foreign policy adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski calls openly, US “vassals” and those pursuing more independent policies.”

“Any illusions that a Democratic Obama Presidency would mean a rollback of such provocative NATO and US military moves of recent years should be dismissed as wishful thinking. Obama’s foreign policy team in addition to his controller Zbigniew Brzezinski, includes Brzezinski’s son, Ian Brzezinski, current US Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for European and NATO Affairs. Ian Brzezinski is a devout backer of US missile offence policy, as well as Kosovo independence and NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia. “

Next move on Brzezinski’s grand chessboard… Russia will send missiles to Cuba repeating the 1962 Cuba Missile crisis. The threat of sanctions will only accelerate the process.

It’s sad, but a vote for Obama is a vote for more wars and the illusion of peace.

The only way to stop the wars is to burn the proverbial draft card.

Next up, G.W. Bush pounding his shoe on the podium at the UN (probably drunk) and hissing about how the United States will bury Russia.

Everybody is worrying about what McCain will do, all the while dubya/Dick, and the rest of the neocon posse is trying to end the world before November. Keep in mind that while we talk religon to death in the presidential campaign, old W might just be planning the apocolypse for old fashioned reasons, ‘cause he’s fucking bonkers!
The only analogy I can think of for this current time in history is “Nero fiddled as Rome Burned”

The depth of hypocrisy in the Bush/Cheney administration is totally unbelievable.  Pot calling the kettle black a thousand times over.  Rice says we can’t allow Russia to assert its influence through military force.  I guess the United States is the only one allowed to assert its influence through force.  As if Iran started bombing a distinct ethnic group in their own country the US wouldn’t invade in a second.  As if Iraq wasn’t about asserting influence through force.  These people make me ill, they will take us all down the road to ruin without a second thought.  Now calling for sanctions?  In what crack-brain universe would that have any kind of good effect?  These people are frighteningly out of touch with reality.  I love how they act like Georgia is a completely different part of the world from Iraq, when by my map it looks like its just a few hundred miles away.  They are just pissed that Russia is starting to play the game by the rules they made.  This could get really bad really fast.  We don’t need another cold war or another specter of Nuclear conflict.  This is so so frustrating.  I feel so helpless watching a bunch of whack-jobs running this sick circus.  Please please vote for Obama, because it truly is our only chance.  If McCain were president we would already be fighting Russians.  Stop the insanity!!

O Dar, Bush has ALWAYS been insane. But, this isn’t his idea. He’s too stupid. No, this is the shadow government led by Dick Chainey. (not a typo).

Now we read right here, that the Russians have been trying to get a meeting of the UN Security Council ever since the conflict broke 10 days ago. And, the US HAS BLOCKED IT!!!

That is standard procedure for this most deceitful and treacherous regime.

Sanctions against Russia? RUSSIA?!

Has Bush gone completely insane?