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Ear to the Ground

Putin Slams U.S., Georgia’s Western Allies

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Posted on Aug 11, 2008
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Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin made his position vis-à-vis his country’s ongoing conflict with Georgia eminently clear on Monday, lamenting how, as he put it, the “aggressor” has been painted as the “victim” in the Western press (hint: said “aggressor” ain’t Russia).


Times Online:

The Russian Prime Minister blasted the West for continuing to support President Saakashvili despite Georgia’s attack on South Ossetia, which he said “wiped from the face of the earth ten Osettian villages”.

“The scale of cynicism is surprising and the skill to present white as black and black. The trick to present the aggressor as the victim of an aggression and to place the responsibly for the effects on the victims,” Mr Putin said.

He criticised the United States for transporting 800 Georgian soldiers from Iraq, some of whom have been deployed in Gori on the border of South Ossetia.

“It is lamentable that some of our partners are not helping us but are trying to stand in the way. I mean among other things the transfer of the Georgian military contingent from Iraq actually to the conflict zone by the military transport planes of the United States,” he said at Cabinet meeting today to discuss the military operation.

Russia warned the West that “the Georgian side was preparing aggression,” said Mr Putin. “Nobody was listening. And this is the result. We have finally come to it. However, Russia will of course carry out its peacekeeping mission to its logical end.”

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By SCJ, August 13, 2008 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment
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NATO cannot accept for aplication a country who has border disputes.  Georgia has two seccesions of separatist who want to be their own.  Russia has had peace keeping troops in both.  Once in NATO its charters would make it a keeper of Georgia. The US has helped it with its soft revolution and backing its current US Imperialist leaning president to get him elected.  His opposer is in political asyllum in France. While I do not remember his name, would not be surprised if he is not left leaning or pro Russian ??? Sarcozy had to be the interviener since he is the current standing president of the EU.  Rice (DR Death)is standing back some as the US is trying to influence NATO or EU into intervening since it is more their back door, yet it only stands to reason with the US’s already investments in pulling Georgia to this point to try to hide this and to help get the new Georgia state accepted into NATO by ignoring previous requirements or to tarnish Russia, who has recently offered the EU and the US a generous bid for supplies of oil and gas and to put an end to the need for US imperiaslism. Read Medvedev BOLD PROPOSALS at http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html

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By Tony Wicher, August 12, 2008 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment

At this point I don’t know who provoked who, and it hardly matters. The Russian view of the events is as one-sided as the Georgian and U.S. view; I would not trust either one. As a peacemaker, I’m neutral.

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By Tony Wicher, August 12, 2008 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

By SCJ, August 12 at 3:48 pm #

Excellent link, very informative and well-balanced, not just somebody’s one-sided, vituperative opinion. Thanks.

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By SCJ, August 12, 2008 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment
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Russia was dismanteling itself military until the after Kosovo and then the US wanting to put in missle bases in Poland.  It has, since that time, started taking a big turn back the other way and building its power back and acting irratic.  To me Russia has shown good faith but not when it comes to having a missle base next door. How would you act!  Iran dose not have missles ranging long enough to hit EU.  But the US wants missle bases in east europe.  To me the US is provoking them.  Now there are rumours Russia talks of trying to put a base in cuba again, how do you think they will like that when the situation is turned around. Remember Russia is the wealthiest nation in the world when it comes to natural resources, gas,oil, diamonds, plutonium and some of the fertilist farm soil on the earth: according to a Margret Thatcher speech.  Last but not least Russia should not be treated like it dose not exist and care what goes on with its neighbors. The US has started a cold war again to take over the world using the war on terror and 9/11 as a pretext. People of the US and NATO countries need to speak out as the world media is becoming the agressors propaganda machine.

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By SCJ, August 12, 2008 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment
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Georgia was denied membership into NATO because a NATO member cannot have border disputes.  This is why Russia anticipated there would be additional conflict in the other small breakaway country also.  The US funded the orange revolution and helped get Sashashvilli elected, (he is a US puppet).  The Georgian goverment has continued to recieve military backing and training.  In a comparison with the Kosovo dynamics a small country wanted to break away and the US backed it. Some how Ossetia is differant so they won’t grant it independance.  10 villages were supposedly completly wiped out by the Georgian troops. To get into NATO the border problem has to be resolved. Some of the critisms of Russia from NATO were from the newly admitted NATO members from old USSR. Old NATO members were silent and the same was echoed on the application for NATO admission. The Georgian goverment obviously feels it easier to scare them into fleeing to Russia and wipe out the rest.  With US elections coming up a new conflict could get more favoritism for McCain in the up coming election in the US. PLEASE! For a most interesting take on the Russian presidents proposals to NATO and US please link to and read Medvedev BOLD PROPOSALS at   http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html

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By Tony Wicher, August 12, 2008 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

Joe Biden weighs in.

He does not sound as belligerent as Zbig. Note that he also does not threaten military action but only talks of long-term economic consequences if Russia does not stand down. Russia has already agreed to the terms Biden requires, provided Georgia removes its troops from South Ossetia and signs a leagally binding agreement not to send them back in. The Russians want to put their own “peacekeepers” back, but perhaps an international peacekeeping presence could be negotiated instead as Barack Obama recommends. It is Russia that is asking for the World Court to investigate, and I would like to know what its judgment will be. I don’t know, but I’m sure neither side is pure, and I would love to see what an objective international body would say. 

http://www.joebiden.com/news/display/russia_must_stand_down/

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By Tony Wicher, August 12, 2008 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

Yikes! Brzezinski speaks out on South Ossetia, sounds like the cold warrior of old.

He puts all the onus on Russia, and compares Putin to Stalin and Hitler. He does not even mention that it was Georgia that attacked South Ossetia, nor that there was a referendum recently where South Ossetia (consisting largely of ethnic Russians) voted overwhelmingly to unite with North Ossetia. 

However, I note that he is calling only for diplomatic action on the part of the international community, not military action. It remains to be seen whether the international community, in particular the EU, agrees with Brzezinski or Putin on this.

Check out the Huffington post interview:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-gardels/brzezinski-russias-invasi_b_118029.html

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By Tony Wicher, August 12, 2008 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Re Fahrenheit 451, August 11 at 11:36 pm #

Thanks for the link. From that page you can also link to another interesting article,

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20478.htm

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By Tony Wicher, August 12, 2008 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

Re linguist, August 11 at 10:39 pm #

linguist,

You sound like someone I would like to maintain a dialogue with at this time. I’m Tony Wicher, computer programmer and political philosopher from Ontario, California. Glad to have you here at TD.

Yes, the Georgia attack on South Ossetia looks like a Bush Administration provocation. U.S. imperialist attack dog Israel is there too. I think this was done partly to help the McCain campaign by giving them an opportunity to paint Obama as weak and inexperienced.

Russia’s position quoted by cyrena that “Georgia must fulfill two fundamental conditions — withdraw all of its armed units to the border of the safety zone stipulated by the 1992 agreement and sign an agreement on the non-use of force with South Ossetia” is consistent with Obama’s position and with international law. Bush-McCain would like to keep up the tension. In fact, they would love to re-start the Cold War. Think of what a huge military budget it would justify - fighting the Cold War and the War on Terror at the same time! Never mind that it will completely bankrupt the country, it will be great for oil companies and defense contractors.

I hope Putin understands that Obama is not Bush/McCain and that there are less than 5 months to go until Obama takes office (assuming he wins and the Republicans do not succeed in stealing the election again). He should be talking to Obama privately and gearing Russian policy accordingly.

I also want this whole matter investigated in the Hague. Bush-Cheney are international criminals of the highest order, and traitors to the United States. I want to see those bastards in jail under an Obama administration.

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By linguist, August 12, 2008 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

Hot news:

Medvedev orders end to military operation
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ordered an end to the military operation in Georgia. He said the objective - “to compel Georgia to peace” - has been achieved. Medvedev also ordered the Russian military to “eliminate the aggressor” in the event of Georgian forces resuming hostilities.

Medvedev said the security of the South Ossetian population and of Russian peacekeepers has been restored. He added that the aggressor has been punished and suffered considerable losses.

The Russian President said he would award the military with state medals for the successful operation.

Russian FM calls for Hague tribunal over Georgia

Meanwhile Russia’s Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, spoke out against Georgia at a joint news conference with the Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb.

He called for crimes committed by the Georgian military in South Ossetia to be investigated by the international tribunal in The Hague.

To watch the full press-conference, please follow the link: http://russiatoday.com/news/news/28876/video

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By Fahrenheit 451, August 12, 2008 at 12:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Here is an informative link by Pepe Escobar, on The Real News, regarding the present Georgian/Russian/American/Israeli conflict;


http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2042&updaterx=2008-08-12+02:36:31

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By cyrena, August 12, 2008 at 12:13 am Link to this comment

By Tony Wicher, August 11 at 7:22 pm

•  “Now that Russia has called our bluff, let’s see what happens. If Putin is smart, he will find a back door way to negotiate with Obama.”

You also mentioned this..

•  “…Now we will see what Obama is really made of. So far he is taking a balanced view of the conflict and calling for negotiations…”

I’m gonna speculate here. First, I do believe that Obama will follow international law, and so it fits in with the negotiations part, and will work for the people of South Ossetia, and Russia by extension, according to what Putin has so far said. In other words, he warned the West that this was in the works, (they already knew, and helped create it – timing is everything) And, THIS is the result. In other words, why did Dick Bush keep fucking with them, when they had no way to back anything up? How stupid can one be?

So, here’s the fix, according to Russia and International Law:

•  “The Russian foreign ministry said: “Georgia must fulfill two fundamental conditions — withdraw all of its armed units to the border of the safety zone stipulated by the 1992 agreement and sign an agreement on the non-use of force with South Ossetia.”

That’s the ‘negotiation’ and it’s simple enough. Obama doesn’t have to do anything, and shouldn’t…unless it’s to verbally endorse these same conditions. There’s already UN language in place for this, which is referenced above. (and linguist kindly obliged me with the link to the entire text of it).

Now of course it’s true what you said about McCain’s campaign using this to make him appear ‘weak’ and that other dictators (Hitler and Bush II) have been elected using the same tactics. (except of course Bush II was never really elected). I don’t think that will work THIS time, because too many Americans are sick of the US intervening in wars based on greed, and destroying the majority of the US population as a result. At the same time, we have to accept that the same people who have benefited from the greed so far, and are in fear of losing what they’ve managed to gain from these policies of greed, specifically eternal war (Marshall comes to mind here, with his claims of tax *cuts* INCREASING federal revenue) will continue to support the war/oil mongers such as McCain..REGARDLESS of what Obama says or does. (keeping in mind that he can’t do anything until after Jan 21st anyway).

And I stress this only because of the excellent points that EJ made in his current piece here. McCain is running a campaign against Obama as if Obama is the incumbent, and that shouldn’t be allowed to happen. It puts all of the focus for all of the shit on Obama, instead of on the Dick Bush regime, where it belongs, and one that we all know is the same as McSame’s policies will be.

So for now at least, I figure we already KNOW what Obama is made of, and it’s time to start focusing on what McCain is NOT made of, since he’s only a clone. McCain has gone too long unscrutinized, and it’s time for folks to see what he isn’t made of.

I’m thinking it might be just as well for ZBig to refrain from any public opinions as well on this. I like him well enough, but he could turn out to be a loose cannon on this situation. If you know him personally, (or someone who does) then you can find out what he thinks on the QT. No point giving the whackos of the anti-Obama crowd (Max Shields comes to mind) anything to put in their spin machines.

Meantime, I’m gonna check out this Commonwealth of Independent States to see what that involvement is in the negotiations.

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By linguist, August 11, 2008 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

Jackpine Savage, yes I am Russian. I am 32, married. I work at the university. I studied English in Russian university (Department of Foreign Languages). Later I got Ph.D. degree in Philosophy and Religious Studies. I have been to the USA 2 times (Stanford University) where I studied Political Science.

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By yellowbird2525, August 11, 2008 at 11:07 pm Link to this comment

anderson: what you state is so true; and why is the USA in debt when we have so many trillions being put into other countries? and when everything here is FOR the Corp’s? with the people paying taxes for the Corps who run the airwaves & golly gee willikers isn’t that what terrorists do? manipulate the media as part of their agenda? federal law says the shareholders come 1st; financial & corp greed before social need; for the country & the people; one wonders why Obama who has been part of the Congress who has been a very great deal of this whole problem is being tooted as “the great hope” for the USA? Why is no media & no mention even of other parties & other candidates in any media other than independent if you can find? why do citizens of the USA who are “supposedly” free???? being denied the TRUTH re the news? Why is there NO coverage of what is going on in Iraq? Or Afghanistan for years? why is there a “new” history out of WW11 called the “war of the world”? why the rumors that Hitler was a charming fellow & greedy Churchhill wanting glory attacked him for no reason? And the “americans” were as bad or worse than the Nazi’s ever were? and oh, yes: that is democrats esp the Clinton’s right? aren’t Americans fed up with BOTH parties??????

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By G.Anderson, August 11, 2008 at 10:28 pm Link to this comment

This is a great example of what happens when fantasy meets reality.

W., the King of Debt, and his henchman’s attempt to use American’s armed forces to create an “Oil Reich”, based on the control of the worlds oil resources.

They have done what they always to do lie, lie, lie, until the lie is accepted as truth. Use the Neo con controlled mouth pieces in the media to broad cast a daily barrage of hate, and lies against Oil countries, they want to control. Find some group that they can support in the country of choice, and get them to create a pretext for intervention.

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By SCJ, August 11, 2008 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The US has invested millions in the Georgia military build up and has been giving US and Isreali military training to the Georgians.  The US has been pushing for the Ukraine and Georgias acceptance into NATO, which is another threat to encircling Russia.  The US and other funding continue to pump money into the countries to help sway their elections and put up US Imperialist favoring officials.  It is highly unlikely that given the amount of money and other military back up the US and Isreal, (Isreal presance has been reported in Heartz papers), highly unlikely Georgia acted with out a green light from Washington.  But Georgias bombing in Ossetia was to elliminate the population, bombing hospitals and university.  Ossetia has strived for independence since the USSR collapse, and has had peace troops in both areas to keep the peace since that time. The oil pipe line goes thru the Ossetia capital before heading for Turkey ending just north of Lebanon.  Isn’t that a coinsidence. Get the picture.  When Isreal blew the begesus out of Lebanon where was the hand slap for over extending on that military feat. Put the pipe line in the picture and it is a war plan in conjuction with the birthing pangs of the middle east.

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By jackpine savage, August 11, 2008 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment

Linguist,

Are you, by any chance, Russian? (Or at least Slavic?)  I only ask because A. your knowledge of the the peripherals involved in this and B. your tendency to omit definite articles. (Not always by any means; your English is excellent.)

Just wondering…

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By MakMan, August 11, 2008 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is exactly what the administration wanted. They have been maneuvering into this since the “Rose Revolution”. They wanted to distract Russia from Iran where we just sent two more carrier strike groups ( http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9799 )  The problem is they aren’t as smart as they think they are and didn’t count on such a swift and overwhelming response from Russia.

——————————-

By Wondering why, August 11 at 3:09 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

You have to wonder what critical thinking process lead the US to back Georgia when it would appear obvious to anyone that when, not if, the Russians called our bluff, we were prepared to do absolutely nothing about it. One wonders whether the appearance of impotence in the face of inevitable Russian action versus the fleeting propaganda rush of enraging the Russians was thoroughly thought through.

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By rowdy, August 11, 2008 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment

i am a lifelong proponent of thermonuclear holocaust. when i was in my early teens my money was on russia. when china set off their first nuke in 1964,i put my bet on china. they had the most people and the least to lose. russia broke up,the chinese became capitalists. now putin wants it all back and short of nukes bush can’t do shit about it. putin makes a joke of bush’s “war on terror”.

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment

By samosamo, August 11 at 2:18 pm #


I can’t help but think that there is more to the russians being fired upon by Ossetia
—————————————————————————-
There are both U.S. and Israeli advisors in Georgia. Also, a major lobbyist for Georgia is a senior member of McCain’s staff. The probability that this is a Bush Adminstration provocation is very high.

Now that Russia has called our bluff, let’s see what happens. If Putin is smart, he will find a back door way to negotiate with Obama.

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment

By yellowbird2525, August 11 at 6:30 pm #


the oil lines: and sad but true just like the scientists have maintained for years: more than enough oil here in USA no need to ever import any
—————————————————————————
Yellowbird, would you stop with such nonsense?

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 8:14 pm Link to this comment

Now we will see what Obama is really made of. So far he is taking a balanced view of the conflict and calling for negotiations. McCain is gearing up for war, nothing else. He actually sounds worse that Bush. He is also gearing up to call Obama weak, which is how all warmongers from Hitler on down get elected. The question is whether Obama will stand strong for international law, diplomacy and negotiations or whether he will cave in to the fear of looking “weak” and move over to McCain’s positon. It is even more dangerous because there are many Zionists and what can be called Democratic neocons, hawkish types like Richard Holbrooke in Obama’s camp. I wonder where the old cold warrior Zbigniew Brzezinski will stand.

If Obama stands strong for sanity against the warmongers and still gets elected, it will be a mirace.

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By yellowbird2525, August 11, 2008 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

the oil lines: and sad but true just like the scientists have maintained for years: more than enough oil here in USA no need to ever import any; the people of the USA are FED UP to the gills & beyond with the shennanigans of hooligans known as politicians; world wide as well; France wants to get rid of all politicians starting with ours; they went to THEIR heads of states, gave them mega money to put off shore, & told them they can never be prosecuted for anything (just like here); I actually have asked them to remove “and justice for all” from the pledge of alligance; but they have SO TAINTED the flag of the USA with their desecrations of utter lawlessness both here in the states as well as abroad; it’s not just Bush; it was Clinton’s before him & “Bush Sr before him; they even want to “outsource” the defense of USA now; People need to quite simply refuse to pay taxes; everything is FOR corporations; NOTHING is FOR THE PEOPLE of this country or any other they have their own agenda for; Congress is corrupt beyond repair with the Corps bringing their own lawyers in as they tell them how they want “amnesty” written; violence has escalated out of control here in states with false information being given under oath “truth is relative” means whatever they say is to be accepted as truth; they have set themselves up above the law; hired the Supreme Court Judges of the land; and refuse to acknowledge charges against them by the International Court; laws are written for “books” only & certainly not carried out with “new” explainations given that do not hold water; it is a shell Gov that has been at war with its’ own citizens for decades; sad, really. Oil isn’t even necessary; but folks get wealthy from it.

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By Paolo, August 11, 2008 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment

The latest war between Georgia, Russia, and South Ossetian separatists once again demonstrates the Founder’s (and Ron Paul’s) wisdom in having a policy of non-interventionism.

The knee-jerk (emphasis on “jerk”) reaction of American politicians and media figures is to try and choose sides in this conflict. Folks, we don’t own the world!

In my very thin understanding of Georgia and Russia, I believe both sides are authoritarian. But I have no desire to choose sides; what happens there is entirely the affair of the Georgians and the Russians. The US, by the way, has had an active policy for several years of trying to encircle Russia with “pro-Western” states. Many of those states are authoritarian dictatorships, but as long as they are against Russian hegemony (and for American hegemony), we support them.

Bottom line: this is none of America’s business. Follow the Founder’s timeless wisdom and stay out of foreign entanglements!

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By Wondering why, August 11, 2008 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You have to wonder what critical thinking process lead the US to back Georgia when it would appear obvious to anyone that when, not if, the Russians called our bluff, we were prepared to do absolutely nothing about it. One wonders whether the appearance of impotence in the face of inevitable Russian action versus the fleeting propaganda rush of enraging the Russians was thoroughly thought through.

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By diamond, August 11, 2008 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

Holy cow! Vietnam all over again complete with ‘advisors’. But there’s a big difference: Russia is definitely not Vietnam. More CIA meddling come home to roost. Do they ever learn?

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By linguist, August 11, 2008 at 3:44 pm Link to this comment

At least 127 military specialists from the USA are working in Georgian government currently. The USA, Turkey and Israel are the major exporters of conventional weapons to Georgia (85 million dollars). Georgian military budget has sky-rocketed by 30 times recently. Isn’t it the preparation to war?
CNN has disgraced itself by taking biased approach in the events coverage. Western public is really brainwashed.

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By samosamo, August 11, 2008 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

I can’t help but think that there is more to the russians being fired upon by Ossetia. Especially when there is an oil pipe line supposedly sending oil to the west and it is most probable that putin and bush are agitating the situation, but as referenced above it will have a lot to do with oil.
You know, the way putin talks I swear I can’t tell the difference in him or w. And now both their actions are speaking loudly. Insane heads of state.

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