Re; Tony Wincher

• “…Saggy, you clearly do believe Jews are somehow an evil people which means you are an anti-Semite in the classic sense.  I would like to help you, but you sound like a hopeless case…”

You said it here Tony. It is a hopeless case, because Saggy has ideological connections already established, that he cannot break. He obviously connects ALL Jews to that religions Holy Book, and even a cursory study of Zionism in respect to the establishment of a Jewish state shows it to be a racist mentality, and that book is interpreted (highjacked) by those (Zionists) who use it to support their racism. That is so basic as to possibly be too obvious for many to see.

The mentality that supports a Jewish only state IS racist. Apartheid IS racist. The Bible supports the same racism…maybe more. The US Constitution, (Israel doesn’t have one by the way) supports racism. This racism thing isn’t limited to Zionists. They are called by many other names. One needn’t be a Jew to be of a Zionist mentality, and not all Jews are Zionists. But then, I’ve said that before, eh? Doesn’t sink it though.

So yeah, it’s hopeless when Saggy writes something like this, and is obviously firmly committed to it…

• “…If you want to understand the character of the Jews, you must understand the holocaust.  See the two links in the previous post…”

I’ve said before, that the facts don’t support this connection, because the history doesn’t. Saggy, Jews and Zionism existed LONG BEFORE the particular Holocaust of which you speak. You’re talking like a Jewish Zionist who somehow believes that The Nazi Holocaust was the ONLY Holocaust in the history of the world, and the only one that matters. Maybe you should start studying more Holocausts, so you can get an idea of the evil that lurks among all people, based on greed and the need for power.

Studying the Holocaust perpetrated by the Nazis only explains how the Zionist Jews have manipulated it to create their own Holocaust against the Palestinian Arabs. That’s all you’re gonna get from that. What the Nazis did to them, they’ve chosen to do to the Palestinians, who had nothing to do with what the Nazis did to the Jews, AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO WASN’T ARYAN.

Hitler’s Holocaust wasn’t about the Jews, it was about the mentality of those attempting to establish an authoritarian state in the nature of Totalitarianism. And if it hadn’t been the Jews and others, it would have been some other group. In fact, Hitler had already determined that he could get away with it, when he reference the Armenian genocide that had come before it. He made it clear that the perpetrators of THAT genocide had gotten away with it, and so who was to stop him?

So no. “Understanding’ the Holocaust is not an immediate link to understanding the Jew. Jews were around a long time before the Holocaust, and so was that book. The Talmud.

And yeah Tony, it’s hopeless.

Thanks Louise,

We actually have mostly large in my family as well. In fact, I’m sure that the Pharaoh gets his mother, who got them from our father, and like that. As a matter of fact, when we were younger, I used to tease my sister rather relentlessly about the size of HER ears, even though they aren’t particularly large, relatively speaking. (my dad has the largest in the tribe - hers are no where close).

So, I only did this because I could, and because she was a brat, and it was one of a very few weapons available in my limited arsenal that I could use effectively on her. Much later, I felt really bad when I realized how sensitive she’d been about that. I couldn’t figure out why for years, she always wore her hair to make sure that they were covered. That was why. Fortunately, she’s gotten over it.

As for the “Pharaoh” I’m staying out of his ‘direction’, at least for the moment. His parents have been ‘directing’ him OUT of the palace for years now. In other words, they want him to get his OWN. He says he’s ‘looking’ but he’s pretty content to stay at the base, (where no rent is collected) So it appears that it’s only his parents that are ‘looking’ on his behalf. They know he’s a skinny big-eared tightwad capitalist, so I’m leaving it up to them to continue their direction. On the more serious side, they’ve done an excellent job with all three.

However, I will continue to study up on the ears. I’d long ago developed my own opinion on them, which is the same as yours. Larger is better. I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed, but people with little ears (really little) generally have some sort of malfunctions...at least that’s been my experience. I just don’t trust little ears or close-set eyes. (you ever notice how close together georgie jr.’s eyes are?) I can just imagine him pulling the wings and legs off of flies, or blowing up cats.

Thanks again for the lesson.

Saggy,

Most of the Jews I have personally known in the course of my life have been been left-wing humanist atheists who never read the Talmud and couldn’t give a shit what’s in it.

There really is a tremendous amount of anti-Semitic literature out there, and if you surf around the web that’s what you are going to find. However it is also true that many Jews really have exploited guilt about the Holocaust for their own aggrandizement, and to justify their oppression of Palestinians. This is indeed disgusting. If you want to criticize Israel, the Israel Lobby and U.S-Israel relations without being anti-Semitic, you should rely on Jewish critics such as Norman Finkelstein, a man whose parents were killed in the Holocaust. Read his “The Holocaust Industry”. He is a very solid source. I also recommend the web site “The Rootless Cosmopolitan” (http://www.tonykaron.com) for some really good criticism of Zionism.

cyrena:

We have a variety of ear types in my family. But they are all large!

Some have the huge “Buddha” lobe and some don’t, but the prevailing view is the bigger the ear the better. At least that’s what we’ve always pushed. Helps the girls feel good about what could otherwise be a real handicap growing up. Helps the boys accept they cant cover them with hair. [The ear tends to part the hair.]

Just for fun you could direct your “Pharaoh” to the internet and have him do some study on some of the other royal lines. Like Ancient Korea. They had big ears too. While in the various royal houses of Europe, they had both big and little. Which might explain the chaotic see-saw periods in their history.

Personally I think big ears are beautiful!

Now about that uni-brow ...

Saggy,

You also dodged my question. I would like to know who I am dealing with here, an Arab or David Duke Junior. Just curious.

By Saggy, July 22 at 2:13 pm #

OK, you ducked this question, I’ll repeat it:  You are a member of an organization that supports the continued occupation of Palestine by a Jews only state.  Would you have been in an organization supporting white South Africa?  What, pray tell, is the difference?
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I agree that the idea of a Jewish state means apartheid just as much as the idea of a White state. In spite of that, however, there is a whole spectrum of Jewish people going from the most racist and reactionary to the most progressive, and I support with Rabbi Lerner as a representative of progressive and internationally-minded Jews. Rabbi Lerner knows that I think the idea of a Jewish state is the primary obstacle to ending the conflict because he and I have corresponded extensively about this. He does not require NSP members to support a Jewish state, provided that they are humanitarian and progressive. He currently supports U.N. resolutions requiring Israel to withdraw from the OPT, and I join with him and Norman Finkelstein in this. That’s why I’m a member of the NSP, not because I agree with its chairman’s current position. I am also a Democrat and an Obama supporter, even though I am far from in agreement with everything Obama or the Democratic party does.

Saggy, you clearly do believe Jews are somehow an evil people which means you are an anti-Semite in the classic sense.  I would like to help you, but you sound like a hopeless case.

By cyrena, July 22 at 11:35 am #

My theory is that the seed of anti-Semitism is the schism in the Jewish tradition known as Christianity. The biblical story is that the Jews rejected Jesus and had him crucified. For two thousand years this superstition was repeated by the Church. Children heard it from a very young age. The result, after so many years, is an endemic social disease, a kind of negative archetype infecting the human group unconscious. Jews had long been the standard social scapegoat when Hitler came along.

Precisely because Jews have been persecuted for 2000 years, they have always been at the forefront of the struggle for freedom and human rights. It is only since this persecution led to the Zionist idea of the necessity of a Jewish state, and Jews have become politically powerful, that they have become oppressors. But power does this to all human beings, so this just proves once again that Jews are like everybody else, no better and no worse.

Louise,

You have no idea what you’ve started around here with the focus on the Pharaoh’s ears. I swear, I’m sorry I ever even brought it the big-eared comedian’s attention. (that would be my nephew). He is NOT letting this go! He’s already ordained himself a Pharaoh. Just that fast!!

It’s gotten so outrageous (and yes, I admit hysterically funny) that even his former uncle-by-association (to me) has appeared from out of the blue, (or the red dirt maybe) to chime in. I think it’s just because in this particular photo, Obama looks like a twin to my ex.

So, now they’re all on the big-eared Pharaoh bandwagon. Jeeze....I’m gettin’ out of here. See if I can find some white people to hang-out with. Shouldn’t be all that hard.

Tony,

Thanks for the correction on who started anti-Semitism. In all honesty, I wasn’t necessarily trying to put it on Hitler, as much as I was trying to make the case that anti-Semitism wasn’t the same as anti-Zionism. And to point out that it wasn’t just Jews that Hitler hated. It was anything or anybody that wasn’t ‘pure aryan’. (That’s why the Nazis did all of that meticulous measuring of noses and stuff). Crazy ass SOB’s.

And, when we call it ALL what it really is, it’s RACISM. The Nazis were racists, and the Zionists are racists, and obviously, the Catholics are too!

(I’m not surprised to find THEM at the start of the anti-Semetic thread, but then, they’re anti just about everything!)

Saggy, July 22 at 7:35 am #

Saggy,

I do admire your persistence in keeping up this dialogue. I’m going stop being angry with you. I would be curious to know what your real background is. What is your nationality? Are you an American citizen or a citizen of another country? Are you a Palestinian? Are you Arab-American? Would you describe yourself as white or non-white? (I’m white and an American citizen, by the way. I have no affiliations with any organized religion. I do not identify with any particular ethnic group. Politically I’m an internationalist.)

What I am trying to tell you, Saggy, is that you have a negative stereotype about Jews in your head.  These examples you have given me serve only the purpose of reinforcing your stereotype. Believe me, I have EXACTLY the same problem talking to Zionists. Most of them have a stereotype about Arabs and Muslims, which they support with all kinds of examples too. Sometimes I get exasperated with them and call them racist pigs, but this never helps the situation with them either. We already have too much anger in this world. Racism is a social disease that anger only makes worse; it can only be treated by
understanding and compassion.

Yes, I understand that Meyer Kahane and his followers are extreme racists, Jewish Nazis I would call them. I understand that there are many people like him in Israel, like Baruch Goldstein, like that swine, the grand Grand Rabbi of Jerusalem, I forget his name, may he rot in hell, who called for carpet- bombing Gaza. But to go from there to a blanket condemnation of Jews as a people is to do exactly what they do when they go from condemnation of suicide bombers to condemnation of Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims as all a bunch of murdering terrorists. That is the essence of racism. How could I, who am not a Jew, but who has all his life lived with Jews, gone to school with Jews, eaten with them and slept with them, how could I think Jews are racists as a people? Please try to understand what stereotyping is. If your real concern is the human rights of Palestinians, then we are on the same side.

By Saggy, July 22 at 7:04 am #

I have been fighting racism and particularly racist Zionism all my life. I know very well there are lots of racist Jews. Guess what, there are lots of racists of every race. And guess what else: anybody who makes generalizations about all or most Jews is promoting a racist stereotype and is a bigger racist than any of them. So take a look in the mirror first before you call someone else a racist.

Maani:

Well lets see, [in case you’re still checking ]

What I posted was;
“The native Nubian prince, Piye now became Pharaoh himself, and a brother king to Thutmose III and Ramses II - whose names he adopted and used interchangeably throughout his reign. Piye presents himself as the reincarnation of those great pharaohs and the devoted servant of Amun and all the Egyptian gods.”

[By the way, Piye using those titles in various hieroglyphs he left behind may have contributed to the “experts” confusion when they were first discovered. Remember, those experts did not believe a black man capable of being Pharaoh]

Tony Wicher:

First, thanks but I am not smarter than you. Don’t know about you, but I just hate people who know everything.

However, I always welcome finding out something I didn’t know ... or that might lead me to discover something I didn’t know. And I’ve always had a fascination with Archeology.

Some time back, probably in February, [I had just read ‘The Black Pharaohs’ in the February issue of National Geographic] there was discussion on Obama vs Hillary, like comparing qualities, and I posted, Obama reminded me of a bust of the Black Pharaoh Shabaka [because of the ears] and Hillary reminded me of a bust of [possibly] Titus Flavius Domitianus, who ruled Rome several centuries after the Nubian Pharaohs rule, not sure. It’s hard to find a Roman ruler without a beard.

Anyway, I was just funnin’. When the article about the ears came up, I remembered the bust of Shabaka, but even had I not, those ears can be seen on most Egyptian royals. Obviously the ear was considered important and beautiful, cause they sure didn’t try to minimize them.

I wrote largely from memory. When challenged about Piye calling himself Thutmose III, I was sure I’d read that somewhere, went back and looked, and it IS in the Geographic article. Just to make sure, I checked on a few relatively current articles about the Nubian Pharaohs to verify and found it in several places. The trick is looking for information on Nubia, Kush, [Cush] and Nubian Pharaohs. There really is lots of stuff out there. And I really don’t have time right now to hunt them all down for you.

Besides, truthdig wont let me post that many links. Remember much of what’s written dates back to a period when archeologists refused to believe the ruling Nubians were black, so it can get confusing. But, if you really want to study what’s currently being learned about that part of Egyptian history, there’s plenty out there. 

Happy hunting!

Louise:

While I appreciate the further history lesson, you actually proved my point.

Your original statement was “The Nubians led by Piye who changed his name to Thutmose III.” Now you admit that Piye “identified himself” with Thutmose III.  That is a HUGE difference.

Thus, my response was correct, and you simply corrected yourself, though not in so many words.

By the way, my mom has been an Egyptologist for over 20 years, and I made sure to check this with her.

Peace.

Re Louise, July 20 at 9:55 pm #

Always glad to meet someone who knows more than I do. What Egyptian hustory books would you recommend?

By cyrena, July 20 at 7:41 pm #

Like, Barack and his grandma here…

• “….I like to imagine that his granny wasn’t that bad and that Obama was just super-sensitive. Like she would tell him it was bedtime and he’d yell, “Oh, I have to go to bed because I’m black!” Or she’d tell him to clean up his room and he’d start yelling, “Oh, clean my room, huh? My people stopped obeying the white woman 100 years ago, Grammy!” Then they’d both laugh and she’d whip him….”

This is WAY funnier than the New Yorker cover.
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cyrena, Hitler didn’t invent anti-Semitism, the Catholic Church did, about 2000 years ago.

But yeah, you’re right, what am I doing here in humor 101 telling some Nazi I despise him? I’m gettin’ outa here.

By Maani, July 20 at 8:19 pm #

“The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Alan Pappe, p.39-40 reads:

First, in February 1947, the decision was made by the British cabinet to pull out of mandatory Palestine and leave it to the UN to solve the question of its future. The UN took nine months to deliberate the issue, and then adopted the idea of partitioning the country. This was accepted by the Zionist leadership who, after all, championed partition, but was rejected by the Arab world and the Palestinian leadership, who instead suggested keeping Palestine a unitary state and who wanted to solve the situation through a much longer process of negotiation. The Partition Resolution was adopted on 29 November 1947, and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine began in early December 1947 with a series of Jewish attacks on Palestinian villiages and neighborhoods in retaliation for the buses and shopping centres that had been vandalised in the Palestinian protest against the UN resolution during the first few days after its adoption. ....On 9 January, units of the first all-Arab volunteer army entered Palestine and engaged with the Jewish forces in small batles over routes and isolated Jewish settlements. Easily winning the upper hand in these skirmishes, the Jewish leadership officially shifted its tactics from acts of retaliation to cleansing operations. Coerced expulsions followed in the middle of February 1948 when Jewish troops succeeded in emptying five Palestinian villages in one day. On 10 March 1948, Plan Dalet was adopted. The first targets were the urban centers of Palestine, which had all been occupied by the end of April. About 250,000 Palestinians were uprooted in this phase, which was accompanied by several massacres, most notable of which was the Deir Yassin massacre. Aware of these developments, the Arab League took the decision, on the last day of April, to intervene militarily, but not until the British Mandate had come to an end. The British left on 15 May 1948, and the Jewish Agency immediately declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine, officially recognised by the two superpowers of the day, the USA and the USSR. That same day, regular Arab forces entered Palestine.

Tony Wicher and Maani:

Tuthmosis was the sixth Pharaoh of the Eighteenth Dynasty also known as Thutmose III, Thutmosis, and his Throne name was Men-kheper-re (Lasting is the Manifestation of Re).

Tuthmosis’s army marched under the banner of the god, Amun, and Amun’s temples and estates would largely be the beneficiary of the spoils of Tuthmosis’ wars.

He also made campaigns into Nubia where he built temples at Amada and Semna. He took a number of foreign princes hostage, who then received training and indoctrination in Egyptian ways. They would later be returned to their homeland as obedient vassals of Egypt.

No doubt Piye was a descendent of one of those princes, since he identified himself with Thutmose III and the Eighteenth Dynasty, considering himself a descendent of Tuthmosis, and an Egyptian Prince.

Towards the end of the Third Intermediate Period, when Egypt fell into chaos, with four kings claiming rule within Egypt, as well as a number of local chieftains exercising control, particularly in the Delta, Piye decided to step in and fix Egypt’s problems.

Piye’s Throne Name was Men-kheper-re (Lasting is the Manifestation of Re), also spelled Menkheperra.

The native Nubian prince, Piye now became Pharaoh himself, and a brother king to Thutmose III and Ramses II - whose names he adopted and used interchangeably throughout his reign. Piye presents himself as the reincarnation of those great pharaohs and the devoted servant of Amun and all the Egyptian gods.

This can be seen in the art and artifacts he left behind.

The Nubian Pharaohs were more committed to the God Amun, Egyptian tradition and the ancient Pharaonic period than many of their contemporary Egyptian subjects. Their knowledge of Egyptian history, Gods and culture revived the nation and brought it back from the edge of collapse.

I suggest you look into a few books on the subject rather than relying on wikipedia. Since, as you know, that can be and frequently is altered and edited without documentation.

Regardless, the book on that part of Egyptian history has just been opened and is only now being studied with any serious desire to documentation. Probably because when the Merowe Dam being built below the fifth cataract of the Nile is completed, the whole area, which is chock full of artifacts will be lost forever.

Also, remember a lot of what you read pre-dates current history and is couched in the notion that anything great coming out of Africa simply had to be done by white men. Ergo ... history altered.

By Saggy, July 20 at 6:02 pm #

re: Tony Wicher, July 20 at 5:02 pm #

.....I was taught they were vermin and I have never seen any reason to change my mind.

The Talmud teaches that non-Jews are vermin (I’ll provide quotes if you want).  This is the most despicable racism in the world.  The idea that other people are ‘vermin’ may not be distinctly Jewish, but it comes close.  It’s time to change your mind.
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No, Saggy, Jews do not (as a rule) believe non-Jews are vermin, but they rightly believe anti-Semites and Nazis are vermin. Every word you say makes you sound like one, and you can most certainly expect them to despise you as such. And you can also expect me to join them.

Cyrena, Tony, Saggy:

The following is from Wikipedia (admittedly not always the most reliable source, but generally okay for history):

“In the 1890s Theodor Herzl infused Zionism with a new and practical urgency. He brought the World Zionist Organization into being and...planned its First Congress at Basel in 1897. This current in Zionism is known as political Zionism because it aimed at reaching a political agreement with the Power ruling Palestine. Up to 1917 this was the Ottoman Empire, and then until 1948 it was Britain on behalf of the League of Nations. The WZO also supported small scale settlement in Palestine.  Lobbying by Chaim Weizmann...and others culminated in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 by the British government. This declaration endorsed the creation of a Jewish Homeland in Palestine. In 1922, the League of Nations endorsed the declaration in the Mandate it gave to Britain...Palestinian Arabs resisted Zionist migration. There were riots in 1920, 1921 and 1929, sometimes accompanied by massacres of Jews. Britain supported Jewish immigration in principle, but in reaction to Arab violence imposed restrictions on Jewish immigration.”

Further to this:

“In 1933 Hitler came to power in Germany and, in 1935, the Nuremberg Laws made German Jews (and later Austrian and Czech Jews) stateless refugees. Similar rules were subsequently applied by Nazi allies in Europe. The subsequent growth in Jewish migration led to the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine which in turn led the British to establish the Peel Commission to investigate the situation. The commission...called for a two-state solution and compulsory transfer of populations. This solution was rejected by the British and instead the White Paper of 1939 proposed an end to Jewish immigration by 1944, with a further 75,000 to be admitted by then...After WWII...support for Zionism increased, especially among Jewish Holocaust survivors. The British were attacked in Palestine by Zionist groups because of their restrictions on Jewish immigration...Unable to resolve the conflict, the British referred the issue to the newly created United Nations.  In 1947, the UNSCOP recommended the partition of western Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state and a UN-controlled territory...around Jerusalem. This partition plan was adopted on November 29th, 1947...The Arab states rejected the UN decision, demanding a single state with an Arab majority. Violence immediately exploded in Palestine between Jews and Arabs. On 14 May 1948, at the end of the British mandate, the Jewish Agency, led by Ben-Gurion declared the creation of the State of Israel and the same day, the armies of four Arab countries invaded Israel.”

There is more, of course, but that’s a start.

Peace.

Re Tony and Saggy re Zionism and the Conflict
Part 1 of 2

This has been an interesting conversation between you two, Tony and Saggy..as I’ve been following it. Something struck me as I read the last few posts, because it is so fundamental, at least to an outside observer.

The seemingly built-in confusion, or the irony/paradox/dialectic, or whatever else it might be called, seems never to resolve. That is the interconnectedness between Zionism, (and the origins of such a state in the location where Israel now exists) the Holocaust perpetrated by the Nazis, and this so-called anti-Semitism in general.

The reality is that they are NOT connected, at least not the institution of Zionism and the State of Israel. THAT vision of a Jewish State, in THAT location, came long before the atrocities of Hitler and his Nazis. Now I’m making an assumption here that those of you who ARE Jews, probably know this history of Zionism. But for those of us who are not, and specifically Americans who may not have ever needed to concern themselves with the activities in the Middle East, this may not be all that well known or understood. So that’s why I offer it…mostly to those like myself, who don’t have the cultural roots that would allow for the same intimate knowledge, without actually studying it.

There is an excellent book (I actually used it as a text): “Why Nations Go to War”. It’s ideal for a short history of Zionism as it applies to the long lasting Israel/Palestine conflict. I can’t remember the authors’/editors’ names off the top of my head now, and I don’t have access to the book at the moment. (I miss my books, now mostly packed away) But, I’m sure one could do a search easily enough. There is more than one edition to the book, and that’s because it includes the same excellent work-up on other conflicts as well. The Israel/Palestine conflict is only one chapter. That’s why I appreciated it. It provides enough FACTUAL and objective information to serve as a jump start for anyone who chooses to follow and search the entirety of the conflict.

I mention this because of the consistent (over time) connection between the victims of the Nazi Holocaust and this ‘anti-Semitism’ that was certainly at the root of it. BUT, the Zionist vision for a Jewish State began before this atrocity of the Nazi regime. It began AT LEAST as early as 1913, when a small group of visionaries, (I wanna say Josef somebody was one of them, but I could be wrong) made plans to HAVE such a state. At that point in time, it is difficult to make the implication that this was a result of anti-Semitism at the hands of the Nazis.

We need also remember that Jews were not the ONLY victims of that Holocaust. While they were certainly among the larger population of those victims, there were also black victims, (and I think I do have that book around here) homosexuals, gypsies, the mentally ill, and others. That Holocaust, and the persecution of so many Jews as a result of it, came at least 25 or so years AFTER the preliminary vision for the establishment of a Zionist State for Jews only, and the LOCATION, had already been selected in the vision.

At the time, (let’s say the turn of the century) the area that was then Palestine, was occupied PREDOMINANTLY by Arabs, though there was certainly an inclusion of Jews and a few Christians as well. Over time, and as part of this Zionist ‘vision’ for a Jewish state, Jews began to relocate – en masse, into the area. Needless to say, as Hitler’s atrocities began to unfold, more and more, from various parts of western Europe arrived as well, eventually over-coming the once predominant Arabs. Prior to that eventual and inevitable clash, there was no such issue with ‘anti-Semitism’ in Palestine, since THAT concept is can only be attributed to the atrocities in Germany and later other portions of Eastern Europe.

Re Tony and Saggy re Zionism and the Conflict
Part 2 of 2

So it is a danger, and creates confusion, when one attempts to conflate the anti-Semitism that was the hallmark of the Nazis, and the Zionism that was the vision of the founders for a Jewish state. In short, anti-Semitism is NOT the same as anti-Zionism, (which is I think the point that Tony is making) and it would be intellectually and ideologically incorrect to make such a connection. The historical time line doesn’t support it.

Check out the book if you can. I think it’s helpful for anyone who, as I said, may be an ‘outsider’ to the conflict.

Meantime, I have NO idea how this conversation developed from an article on how to make fun of Obama, but it’s OK.

Still, just to get back to the fun part of it, (because I really do think Joel’s piece is FUNNY) I keep re-reading it.

Like, Barack and his grandma here…

• “….I like to imagine that his granny wasn’t that bad and that Obama was just super-sensitive. Like she would tell him it was bedtime and he’d yell, “Oh, I have to go to bed because I’m black!” Or she’d tell him to clean up his room and he’d start yelling, “Oh, clean my room, huh? My people stopped obeying the white woman 100 years ago, Grammy!” Then they’d both laugh and she’d whip him….”

This is WAY funnier than the New Yorker cover.

Tony, this made me laugh, if only because it was in response to Maani..

“...There might be some people who don’t know the New Yorker who will pick it up, and if they read them they will find there article after article praising Obama and condemning these racist stereotypes - all of them approved or written by the so-called “Zionists” who edit the New Yorker....”

Article after article praising Obama? Yeah, I know Maani admitted this himself, (and I’m sure it’s true, though I’ve not read the New Yorker in a while) but I’d be willing to bet Maani ain’t all that tickled over all of that praise.

Actually, I like the publication, though not enough to subscribe to it. My favorites (the authors and their pieces) are generally available on line, and the on-line versions never include a cover.

Kinda makes me wonder what I’ve been missing.

By Saggy, July 20 at 3:00 pm #

re: Tony Wicher, July 20 at 12:48 pm #

.... So I hope I have misjudged you.

Well, let’s see.  Maybe you did, maybe not.  Maybe you misjudge the Zionists.  I do lump Jews together, unless they specifically state that they do not support the continuation of Israel as a Jews only state.  Some do that, not too many. 

Two points:

Let’s look at what the extreme Jewish left has to say ... in the person of Tikkun founder Rabbi M. Lerner in “A Jewish Renewal Understanding of the State of Israel” where he writes of the “much greater and more acute pain” of the Jews, and the “arrogance, stupidity and anti-Semitism” of the Palestinians driven from Palestine.

http://www.tikkun.org/rabbi_lerner/israel

Also, read the “DABRU EMET - A JEWISH STATEMENT ON CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANITY” by a large convergence of Jewish leaders in the US...But they temper that with “Without the long history of Christian anti-Judaism and Christian violence against Jews, Nazi ideology could not have taken hold nor could it have been carried out.” See this remarkable document at
http://www.icjs.org/what/njsp/dabruemet.html

So, did you misjudge me?  Or perhaps the Jews?  Both?  Neither?  In any case you came out of the gate very strong with the name calling that characterizes the Jewish response to any criticism.

Even further ... “ a common-as-dirt anti-Semite of the kind I deeply despise and would like to see extirpated from the face of the earth.”.  What the hell ?????.  You sound exactly like a Zionist.  Hmmm.  Walks like a duck .....
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Saggy,

Sure I sound exactly like a Zionist, because I agree with them in this much at least: I despise Nazis and anti-Semites. I was taught they were vermin and I have never seen any reason to change my mind. Furthermore, there still are lots of them still around. And many of them have learned that anti-Semitism is disreputable so they call themselves “anti-Zionists”, and in doing this they pick up respectablility and support from naive and unsuspecting people who probably lack in a very deep historical and political education. So these people are drawn into a web of anti-Semitism in the name of “anti-Zionism”, which only justifies the Zionists fears, and makes resolution of this conflict more difficult.

As to Rabbi Lerner, I am a member of the Network of Spiritual Progressives (NSP) and I have corresponded with him personally. I am to the “left” of Lerner because of my support for a One Democratic State solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict. We have agreed to disagree on this issue, but still there are very broad areas of agreement betwen us. (I could say the same about Obama). You sound too rigid in your thinking. The One Democratic State idea may manifest itself as the result of a process of evolution that begins with enforcement of a two-state solution as required by international law. The politically critical point at this time is for the United States to stop blocking the will of the international community and require Israel either to comply with U.N. resolutions and withdraw to the 1967 borders. Even Norman Finkelstein, who is so far to the “left” that he supports Hezbollah as a legitimate national liberation movement, would agree that this is the right place to put the pressure and the emphasis at this time. This is something we can hope an Obama administration will do.
------------------------------------------------
“Without the long history of Christian anti-Judaism and Christian violence against Jews, Nazi ideology could not have taken hold nor could it have been carried out”
-----------------------------------------------------
Saggy,

What, are you saying you disagree with this? I say it is historically accurate. The origins of anti-Semitism do lie in early Christianity and it has been used by the Nazis as well as other tyrants for their own purposes. Do you dispute this?

As for the new yorker magazine cover, it is just another cover.

By Tony Wicher, July 20 at 2:00 pm #

I respond. I have humor, you have humor and so does everybody else, you are right, if I couldn’t laugh off and on through out the day all year long then there is no telling where I would be. I just find that when discussing this political situation we are all in, which is negative and pertains to all the planet, that I don’t find much that is funny especially ‘funny business’ conducted by those that have actually in silence declared war on the people and that to me is down right serious to the point I want to be able to protect me and mine and what we have to any extreme. Since ‘they’ have declared war us and in some form and fashsion will violently disrupt a life we have come to believe in and enjoy with abilities to have free time and money to go places and do what strikes one’s fancy then I want the ability to hold them accountable for forcing me and mine to do without for their greedy wants. And I want a government that holds all according to law which means there probably is 80% of our government that deserves to be in jail for a long long time, their money confiscated and used to pay back what crap they have caused and another part of that 80% that need to be put up against that wall and shot.
And because of our totally worthless and most irresponsible media, we get NO information with a little disinformation mixed in.
So when I am feeling funny I hope there is a true quality for being so because in half a heartbeat on any thought about what may be coming, I even have that lite moment taken from me and my other funny times could be described as quite morbid. And I expect this to continue until the one BIG problem is addressed and intelligently dealt with to relieve the incredible pressure that exists on this planet, what to do about the human population explosion. And these neocons and ‘elites’ are no dummies, they don’t appreciate having to deal with so many people that will prevent them from living their life of leisure because the voice of the people should be what controls and they have been planning since at least the days of nixon to find a plan and that probably starts with the Project of the New American Century and even that name should suggest some very dark connotations to set the world up for their pleasures.
Try this link for what others expect and maybe sooner than later:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul466.html

By Maani, July 20 at 1:03 pm #

Maani,

I see this cartoon the same way you do. I don’t see how it does anything but good. The readership of the New Yorker know it’s a satire. People who think Obama is a Muslim don’t read the New Yorker are such morons that they are beyond hope and help, and Obama should not be seeking their vote. I don’t think he will be spending much time in the Ozarks trying to win over Abner and Ewalt (any “Ren and Stimpy” fans around here?) There might be some people who don’t know the New Yorker who will pick it up, and if they read them they will find there article after article praising Obama and condemning these racist stereotypes - all of them approved or written by the so-called “Zionists” who edit the New Yorker.  As to the people who got offended - well, you have it coming, people. That’s what good satire is all about.

Felicity,

I think you’re right about the “Big Suck”. New Yorker subscriptions are probably off the charts now.

Obama should ask for a cut.

By Louise, July 20 at 10:45 am #

Louise,

I noticed the same thing about your account of Egyptian history as Maani. I am familiar with Tuthmosis III of the 18th Egyptian dynasty, the great-granfather of Akhenaten whom some believe to be the historical Moses, from the books of Ahmed Osman, who identifies Thuthmoses III with the Biblical King David. The closest thing I can find to a connection between Piye and Tuthmosis III is a Wickipedia article which says that the Nubian Pharaohs were very strong on Egytian history and tradition: “ Piye adopted two throne names: Usimare and Sneferre during his reign and was much more passionate (in common with many kings of Nubia) about the worship of the god Amun. He revitalised the moribund Great Temple of Amun at Gebel Barkal, first built under Thutmose III of the New Kingdom by employing numerous sculptors and stone masons from Egypt to renew the temple. He was once thought to have also used the throne name ‘Menkheperre’ ("the Manifestation of Ra abides") but this prenomen has now been recognised as belonging to a local Theban king named Ini instead who was a contemporary of Piye.”

Egyptian history is really fun!

By samosamo, July 19 at 8:42 pm #

And the world would have been a better place for it and now if only you would oblige.
-----------------------------------
Geez, that hurts my feelings. I was trying to be friendly.

C’mon everyone. ‘The New Yorker’ hits the stands with a provocative magazine cover - something it does weekly and almost weekly requires one to flip inside to read the caption to figure it out - and the whole bloody country flips out? 

Chances are that a whole bunch of people who’d never even heard of the magazine are now entertaining the notion of subscribing to it. Might that have been the ‘point’ in the first place? It’s called the ‘Big Suck.’

Louise:

One error in your Nubian/Egyptian history.  Piye did NOT change his name to Thutmose III.  Thutmose III was the 6th pharoah of the 18th dynasty, from ~1480-1425 BC.  Piye was the founder of the 25th dynasty, from ~750-720 BC.  There is no connection between them.

That said, your Piye/Shabaka narration is quote good.

Peace.

By Louise, July 20 at 10:45 am #

At the risk of being lynched ... this is funny. 

We all know Buddha ears indicate great wisdom, but Obama’s ears are one better. They aren’t Alfred E. Neuman ears, and they aren’t Buddha ears, they’re the classic ears of the ancient rulers of Egypt
~~~~

I know Louise...I thought so too. Matter of fact, I’m still giggling about it. (and nobody is around to care enough to lynch me...at least not for that)

Can’t let the eldest nephew see this part about the Pharoh’s ears though. My God, we’d never hear the lat of it. He’d be expecting some kind of a crown by tomorrow. He’s already convinced everyone that ‘Thin is in.’ I’m like, not if you have to run around the shower to get way bro, that requires way more water, and you use more soap than everybody else on the ears.

Meantime, I’m on my way for some arugula now. I couldn’t believe it when I found out that Barack preferred brocholi to asparagus. (his assistant says he’ll eat the asparagus if that’s all there is) Now if he was so ‘elite’, he’d take the asparagus.

I’m gonna settle for the poor woman’s version..at least until payday. Leeks. Leeks and arugula. Just thinking about it makes me laugh. (if only at myself).

Thanks for the hisory lesson. It would be nice if it had an impact on those who ‘don’t know’. Humm...

I think everyone needs a reality check here.

First (and regardless of any real or perceived Zionist tendencies), The New Yorker has been extremely critical of McCain, while generally supportive of Obama.  Thus, their regular readership would have immediately seen the cover for what it was: satire.

Second, any non-reader who saw the cover, and has been an Obama supporter, might or might not have felt annoyed or offended by it, but was certainly not going to stop supporting Obama, especially if they saw the cover as satire.

Third, any non-reader who saw the cover, and believes that Obama is a Muslim, and that Michelle is a black power radical, was not going to change their mind even if the cover had shown Obama and his wife in some other, less satiric pose.

Fourth, at least SOME non-readers who saw the cover, and believe that Obama is a Muslim and Michelle is a black power radical, may well have picked up the magazine for the first time - in which case, they would have found articles quite glowing about Obama, and quite critical of McCain.  Thus, the cover was extremely clever in “luring” new readers to see what was actually in the pages inside - and that the magazine as a whole (i.e., most of the editorial staff and writers) supports Obama.

Finally, as a general matter, anyone who thinks Obama is a Muslim and his wife is a black power radical is never going to be convinced otherwise, no matter what anyone says or does, or how Obama and Michelle are portrayed.

Ultimately, the cover is much ado about nothing.  If Obama had been just a tad smarter, he would have looked at it, laughed, said “how very silly,” and moved on without further comment.  Period.

Peace.

By Saggy, July 19 at 6:58 pm #

re: Tony Wicher, July 19 at 7:51 am #

You can go straight to hell, you Nazi son of a bitch.

Isn’t that what the Zionists told Jimmy Carter.  The Zionists publish a cover magazine cover depicting Obama as a Muslim terrorist and if we don’t laugh along with them, we’re Nazis.  Why not throw in anti-semite, or did you just forget?  Anything to avoid the fact that the US has killed maybe a million people fighting a war planned and directed by Zionists for Israel’s benefit.  This isn’t funny and I’m way tired being called a Nazi for pointing it out
-----------------------------------------------------
OK, Saggy, I will respond one more time. I take the position that Jewish nationalism is a bad idea. I’m opposed to the idea of a Jewish state and I favor a One Democratic State (ODS) solution to the conflict. Because of all this I have been called anti-Semitic ad nauseum. I have spent a lot of time and energy on this blog establishing that that is not the case, so people, especially including Jewish people will listen to me instead of dismissing me as just another anti-Semite which are common as dirt around here. I’m anything but anti-Semitic, because lots of Jews are heroes of mine, and one of those heroes is Jon Stewart. Precisely because he is Jewish, and a commedian, he can get away with saying things about Jews, AIPAC, antiSemitism and Israel/Palestine, that no one else can. He has done a brilliant job of it, especially lately, and that is why I recommended you to listen to his commentary on the cartoon in the AV section (which I still do). To hear you angrily refuse to do so on the grounds that Stewart is a “Zionist” enraged me, not only because he is my hero, but because you appear to be lumping all Jews together as “Zionists”, which would make you a common-as-dirt anti-Semite of the kind I deeply despise and would like to see extirpated from the face of the earth. So I hope I have misjudged you.

At the risk of being lynched ... this is funny.

We all know Buddha ears indicate great wisdom, but Obama’s ears are one better. They aren’t Alfred E. Neuman ears, and they aren’t Buddha ears, they’re the classic ears of the ancient rulers of Egypt.

They are Shabaka ears. And just in case you don’t know who that is, that’s the guy who was 2nd in the 25th dynasty that ruled Egypt. Now here’s where that story gets interesting. The Nubians led by Piye who changed his name to Thutmose III, conquered Egypt not because they particularly wanted Egypt, but because Egypt’s unraveling was threatening the collapse of trading in the entire region.

[Oh my, is there a parallel there?]

Under Nubian rule, Egypt became Egypt again. When Piye died in 715 B.C., his brother Shabaka solidified the 25th dynasty by taking up residence in the Egyptian capital of Memphis. Shabaka adopted the throne name of the 6th-dynasty ruler Pepi II.

Rather than execute his foes, Shabaka put them to work building dikes to seal off Egyptian villages from Nile floods.

Some historians believe he’s the Pharaoh responsible for the deliverance of Jerusalem, when that city was threatened with annihilation by the Assyrians.

Shabaka lavished Thebes and the Temple of Luxor with building projects. At Karnak he erected a pink granite statue depicting himself wearing the Kushite crown of the double uraeus—the two cobras signifying his legitimacy as Lord of the Two Lands. Through architecture as well as military might, Shabaka signaled to Egypt that the Nubians were here to stay.

But they weren’t. After helping Egypt become Egypt again, the dynasty under the rule of Piye’s son Taharqa, returned to Nubia, handing the Nile delta back to the Egyptians.

However, those ears are clearly evident on the masks, mummies and statues of Pharaohs, both male and female all the way back to the Sphinx and forward to the arrival of the Greeks. As are the various shades and tones of skin color through all the dynasties, leading many to believe the ancient rulers of Egypt were as much black as anything else.

In fact we now know all races lived in relative harmony throughout Egypt’s history. Something earlier historians and archeologists denounced as untrue. Of course they were all white and like their pathetic remnants today, believed if a man wasn’t white he couldn’t do great things.

Like I guess they haven’t noticed the current president’s skin color and his great capacity for NOT doing great things.

OK, lest I start to sound racist, a bit of clarification. All people have great things in their history, even Bush I’ll bet ... somewhere ...

So we need to grow up and realize it aint the color that counts. Or even the race, it’s the person.

And I predict there will be a run on arugula in stores everywhere.

If one had any doubt about Obama being one of “them”, just look at his record over the last few weeks, writes VINCENT BROWNE.THERE WAS never even a slender hope Barack Obama could bring any substantive change to America, no matter how often he and his fans chanted the “change” mantra. No change in the “war on terror”, which has been the mask for foreign adventurism in pursuit of imperial ambitions and gross abuse of human liberties. No change in the direction of unqualified support for Israel, a state founded on terror and ethnic cleansing and maintained by savagery. No change to the rearmament of America and, incidentally, in replication now, the European Union as well. No change to the reality of 36.5 million people living in poverty in America. No change to the 47 million without health insurance cover and therefore, mostly, without access to healthcare. No change on gun laws or on the death penalty. The rhetoric was and is as vacuous as it sounds. Obama is another one of “them”. If one had any doubt about Obama being one of “them”, just look at his record over the last few weeks since he secured the Democratic nomination. On Independence Day, July 4th, he delivered a speech in Independence, Missouri. This was not just another piece of kitsch but intended also as a tribute to one of America’s presidential war criminals, Harry Truman, the president who ordered the massacre of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians in May 1945. Obama began his speech with another tribute, this time to the “men of Lexington and Concord . . . our first patriots”. No hint here of any acknowledgment of earlier patriots, who befriended the “discoverers” of American and then tried to defend themselves against the rapaciousness of the invaders. Such oversight is commonplace among the conventional blatherers of American politics, but Obama, the first black presidential candidate to be entirely insensitive about what was done to native Americans? He went on to commend the “sacrifice” of American troops in Iraq, an implied endorsement of their invasion, which he supposedly opposed, and their conduct of a brutal war there on the basis of lies and in the pursuit of domination. He hailed US troops who had fought in Vietnam as well as Iraq “on behalf of a larger cause”. What “larger cause”, other than the cause of domination? He denounced the “so-called counter-culture of the Sixties”, the “so-called culture” that opposed the war in Vietnam, that campaigned for civil rights for blacks and other minorities! He has gone on to resile from his earlier commitment to bring US troops home for Iraq within 16 months of becoming president. He is now talking about the “situation on the ground”, listening to the military and, overall, seeking a more “muscular” US presence in the world, in the words of his senior national security adviser, Richard Danzig. He has repeated his support for the death penalty, not just for those who take the lives of others but for child rapists, and criticised the US Supreme Court for failing to extend the death penalty beyond the category for murder. He supported the US Supreme Court’s decision to uphold the “right” of Americans to carry handguns. In the last week he voted for George Bush’s law legalising extensive phone tapping initiatives and granting immunity to the telephone companies that joined with the Bush administration in the illegal tapping of hundreds of thousands of phones. He has expressed support for “faith-based” social programmes, programmes advocated by the extreme right of American society.

finish article here - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0716/ 1216073109938.html

By Tony Wicher, July 19 at 9:17 am #

And the world would have been a better place for it and now if only you would oblige.

Oh dear. Did anybody read the entire piece from Joel Stein? Now I think HIS stuff is funny! I mean it. If we really wanna ‘make fun’ of him, then this was the way to do it. He IS a ‘nerd’, (which I appreciate more than I can possibly say, after 8 years of having the demented and insanely ignorant turning this whole country into an asylum). He IS ridiculously earnest, and I’m OK with that too. Lord knows I don’t have that kind of energy anymore. It’s so damn sincere it’s almost painful, because it’s obvious that most ‘don’t get it’. (He’s already been accused of being too ‘proffessortorial’ by the folks at the Town Hall style meetings. --- don’t bother them with all those facts and consequences…just make everything rosy and peachy). Kind of like how I always reacted as a youngster (very limited patience level) to my dad and his slowly plodding and thorough ways of doing anything. Jeeze…couldn’t we just get ON with it? Well yeah, we could, but it probably wouldn’t go over so well, like doing a car repair and just ignoring the engine. Oh, ya mean we have to pay attention to the engine?

Anyway, this stuff really tickled me. One way to keep him from being assassinated because of him being black, is to just get a blacker vice president. Worked for GW.

And this last one:

• “…His platitudes need deconstruction. “We are the people we’ve been waiting for”? Actually, I’m pretty sure we’re the people who put all our money in Yahoo and then bought a house to flip and now are hocking everything we have. We’re the people China has been waiting for.

What’s great is that Obama would laugh at this himself. Most of this stuff I think.

His kids already ratted him out in that one interview that they were allowed to have. They accused him of being to stuffy or ‘formal’ or whatever the word was that they used. Their example was that when he meets or is introduced to one of their friends, instead of just saying ‘hi’ or whatever, he always has to shake their hands. (and we’re talking about kids here…ages 6-12 or thereabouts.)

And what else can be said about the jug ears? I mean come on. The guy has protruding ears, and they tend to be more noticeable on skinny people. I don’t know why that is, but it is. My nephew is skinny with protruding ears. (and large feet). His defense on the ears is that at least he keeps them clean.

As for the New Yorker. I actually have read several articles that they’ve published. I particularly like Seymour Hersh and Jane Meyer.

I thought the cartoon cover was tasteless, and as much an insult to all Muslims as it was to the Obamas. Now there may be this 10% of the population that reads the New Yorker regularly, who would have seen the supposed point that the editor/publisher claims they were trying to make.

I think it backfired with the remaining 90% who don’t get it, and already associate every single Muslim on the globe with the extremist and fringe sliver who claim to be practicer’s of Islam. Like, Osama bin Laden and the Wahhbis.

Based on that, the publication of this on the cover - might have been slightly different somewhere inside, was professionally irresponsible.

On the other hand...we’ll get over it. There are far worse things going on.

By dasm, July 18 at 2:13 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

“The satire depicted in the NY cover is not lost on the intelligent. Unfortunately, the others- the Bushies, Fox News & its viewers, O’Reilly, Hannity, etc. will use the images on that cover as fact.  Already we are seeing their followers refer to Michelle Obama as Angela Davis, etc., and continue to promote the lie about Obama being a Muslim.  That’s why the cover was a mistake - it feeds the hate & misinformation of the ignorant.  Smart people see it as satire; the others see it (wrongly) as truth.”
==========================
Dasm, I do totally agree with you on this! Even if this kind of cover does not directly and openly feed the hate and misinformation of the ignorant, who are many when it comes to issues related to Islam or its symbols, it does insinuate to them that there is something very wrong about Obama ending in the White House. 

The New Yorker is twice guilty on this issue: First, it was guilty to publish this very cartoon with very bad and cheap taste, to say the least.

Second, it was guilty again to defend its intention under the lame rubric of “humor.” Since there are no universal agreed upon standards of “humor”, what might look humor to some, could be very offensive and tasteless for others! This is parallel to the issue of freedom-fighters versus terrorists. Some people’s freedom fighters are seen as terrorists for others and the other way around!

I believe that such cartoons can fall squarely under “thought terrorism;” intended to keep an already frightened people terrorized in regard to certain other people because of their real religion or their perceived religion!

The interesting thing about that New Yorker cartoon is to consider the range of people objecting to it. We have (a) hundreds of mainstream media types such as Wolf Blitzer who have spent the last year echoing the very racist stereotypes which they now find so shocking when depicted on the cover of the New Yorker, (b) Zionists (also such as Wolf Blitzer) anxious to prove to the world that they are not racist or anti-Muslim - and by that very anxiety, proving to the perceptive that they are in fact both, (c) far out anti-Semites who have drunk the Nazi Kool-Aid and think everything is a Zionist plot (d) Liberals and leftists with unconscious and deeply repressed racist images such as those depicted on that cover, and (e) some Obamabots with no sense of humor. Did I leave anybody out?

By samosamo, July 18 at 11:32 pm #

Humor? What the hell is this? I find nothing humorous about this country and world with w, dick and pelosi in charge. Go uck it up in your own house.
-----------------------------------------------------Hey, samo - If I didn’t find anything humorous about this world I would have killed myself a long time ago.

By dasm, July 18 at 2:13 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

The satire depicted in the NY cover is not lost on the intelligent.  Unfortunately, the others - the Bushies, Fox News & its viewers, O’Reilly, Hannity, etc. will use the images on that cover as fact.  Already we are seeing their followers refer to Michelle Obama as Angela Davis, etc., and continue to promote the lie about Obama being a Muslim.  That’s why the cover was a mistake - it feeds the hate & misinformation of the ignorant.  Smart people see it as satire; the others see it (wrongly) as truth.
----------------------------------------------------
dasm,

Anybody who thinks thinks this cartoon is “truth”, or takes it seriously at all, is such an idiot that Obama can do without his vote. Really.

Rey Purple Girl, July 19 at 4:45 am #

The New Yorker does not only owe Sen Obama, his wife/family and Campaign an apology - it owes one to every Muslim in the country and the everyone who fights for Our Freedoms ( Military and Civic)
-----------------------------------------------------
Baloney. The Obama campaign owes the New Yorker its thanks for that cover, and I say this as both as an Obama supporter and as a person who usually does not care for the New Yorker. This cartoon does a great job of lampooning all the racist images that the reactionaries are trying to hang around Obama’s neck. It does Obama a lot of good. People who can’t see this have an atrophied funny bone.

Saggy, July 19 at 4:55 am #

Well, you are a crazy anti-Semite. Why don’t you go post on the David Duke site or something? You might find a home there. I will not respond to any more of your posts, and I advise everyone else who posts here to do the same. I’m completely anti-Zionist, myself, as everyone posting here for the last two or three years will attest, but compared with you, I am on the same side as lefty, lilmamzer, Howard and every other Zionist that posts here. You can go straight to hell, you Nazi son of a bitch.

A big part of Bush’s charm is that he is an ass and doesn’t care.  He is blithely ignorant of policies and issues because “it don’t matter none.” That shit is fer nerds.  Wonks. Lawyers.  Not prezeedents. As the decider, he has only one real decision to make: Am I right or am I wrong?  Not a tough decision but an exceedingly important one considering that he is, in fact, wrong.

Obama is the diametric opposite.  It’s hard to make fun of him because he is so damn “good.” He’s Mr. Rogers goes to Washington.  He actually thinks about his words and actions.  He listens to opposing views.

What’s funny about that?  Nothing. 

Which is not to suggest that he can’t take a joke. But the real joke, in this case, is the news media and their inability to find humor unless it is base and decidedly unsophisticated. 

It is microwaveable pot pie journalism calling the melting pot politician black - for lack of anything better to do.

I am wondering when the media industry in this country we call home is going to grow up and start acting as real mature and intelligent vehicle to inform and educate.

All we see is garbage, sensationalism, and pandering to the lowest common denominator. And the most disturbing part of this is that this is done under the banner of the so-called freedom of speech.

The New Yorker (i.e. The New Yorker Zionists)is a disgrace for the very meaning of freedom of speech. And its editors should be reminded that when Hitler embarked on his final solution of the Jewish Problem, his cheering cohorts in the media did exactly what the New Yorker did in 21st Century America.

All people of decency and concern for defending a dignified meaning of freedom of speech should condemn this publication with their pocket money, first by refraining from buying it or by canceling their prescriptions if they are subscribers, and secondly, by, at least, verbal condemnation through phone calls and writing to the editors!

The most grevious aspect of that Mag Cover was the fact that it once again forces Obama to Claim he is Not an Muslim. Thus effectively insinuating that merely being a Muslim is a bad thing. Not only does this place him in an ackward situation, but also US. We are a nation of Laws- Notably the ‘Freedom of Relgion ‘ and ‘Free Speech’.This cover reaffirms this is a Lie. Free as long as you conform to the ‘majority’,anything outside that realm is suspect and evil.
The New Yorker would have served it’s purpose far better to have shown those who are so small minded,gullable and paranoid as to buy these stereotypes. That would have been funny.Make fun of the ones who do not comprehend the Bill of Rights nor the Constitution!Portray th eones who spew hate & fear from the Pulpit- Like Hagee and his mind controlled legion of followers and Political allies.Show Hagee waiting for Christ to Rapture him as WW3 rages on around him, and LIEberman furiously performing the sign of the Cross. Show McCain hiding under the Hotel Bed while addressing Ford WHQ topbrass in Dearborn, MI. Show Hillary psychotically ‘obliterating Iran’ during a Hotflash.Show DICK working the strings of All his Puppets, “All the Worlds a Stage and I’m the Puppet Master!”
The New Yorker does not only owe Sen Obama, his wife/family and Campaign an apology - it owes one to every Muslim in the country and the everyone who fights for Our Freedoms ( Military and Civic)

Humo