“...First of all Obama was born a muslim you can’t make that untrue….”

You’re still stupid Lib, and it’s annoying, because I actually took the time to give you some ‘free’ education, which your ignorance fails to allow you to take advantage of.

So, there is NO WAY that a person is “BORN” a Muslim, any more than a person is “BORN” a Christian.

You still refuse to understand something as simple as the difference between a RELIGION, (which one is NOT ‘born’ to) and a race or ethnicity that is determined by GENETICS.

One more time lib. Islam is a religion. Those practicing that religion, (BY CHOICE AND NOT BIRTH) are MUSLIMS. Just like Christians who practice Catholicism are referred to as CATHOLICS. Christians who practice the Protestant doctrines of Christianity are called (think hard here lib, you can do it) PROTESTANTS!

(see, I told you you’d figure it out).

Now, of all the Christians that you know, be they Protestant, Baptist, Pentecostals, Lutherans,  Methodists, Presbyterians, Quakers, and on and on, how many were actually BORN that way? One is not BORN into a religion lib, and nothing that you can say, or think, will make that true.

I will give acknowledgement to the fact that custom and tradition does come into play in SOME religions, MUCH of the time, (i.e., one’s parents are Christian of the Catholic version, and so they ‘baptize’ their children in the same tradition). Or..they don’t.

Now, let’s take Islam and the people who practice that religion. Keep in mind what I’ve already told you a few dozen times. They are called MUSLIMS. They use as their Holy Book, the Qur’an, though the more devout may also reference other scriptures as well.

Muslims lib, come in ALL ethnicities. They are Chinese, they are European/Caucasian, (the ethnic Albanians of Serbia/Bosnia are mostly Muslims, and were genocided as a result) .

They are also Africans/Black, and they are also Indonesians, and they are also Arabs of the Middle East. I told you before lib, there are 1.3 BILLION Muslims in the world, who practice the faith and doctrines of Islam.

Obama is NOT one of them. He was born to a HUMAN race, and NOT to a ‘religion’ just like the rest of us. He was a genetic – NOT- a religious product of a Caucasian mother, (with NO religion, she was an ATHIEST – like me and a few billion others) and a father of AFRICAN ancestery. (that means his father was genetically BLACK).

According to Barack Obama, his father was not particularly ‘religious’ either.

That said lib, Barack Obama was NOT ‘born’ a Muslim. He was not ‘BORN’ ANY –“RELIGION”! NOBODY is ‘born’ a particular ‘religion’.

THIS lib, is the epitome of an example for why you are DANGEROUS. It is your IGNORANCE that makes you dangerous. It makes you dangerous because innocent people may come into contact with you. People, (specifically your own off-spring) who haven’t yet had an opportunity to obtain true knowledge from any source other than you. So, they believe the ignorance that you pass on to them, (such as your ignorance about the difference between religious doctrines and the genetics of race) and at some point, they pass on the same ignorance. This makes you dangerous.

Meantime, for the record, AGAIN. Barack Obama was NOT ‘born’ a Muslim, and at no point in his life did he ever decide to become a Muslim. Rather, unlike his mother, (the atheist) or his father, (whom he says was mostly non-observant of Islam, what we call ‘secular’) he CHOOSE to practice Christianity.

Now DO something about your ignorance.

Yea !!!!

How DUMB of me I just figured you two out.  You both have multiple personalities and they are all bipolar!!!!!!!!!

I don’t care what color Jesus was since I think he only may have existed, and also because I’m not racist.  But I know YOUR Jesus is white and that is incorrect.  And if Jesus is very real to you then you should give Jesus the respect and admiration he deserves and worship him for who he really was and not some figment of your limited imagination.

NOT A RACIST HUH???  MAYBE YOU THINK IT ONLY APPLIES TO WHITE ON BLACK! NEVER BLACK ON WHITE.
THE REST OF YOUR POST IS JUST A BLATHERING IDIOTIC DIATRIBE IN OTHER WORDS M A K E S N O S E N S E !

So… lib in Texas, has your church adopted the historically accurate “darker skinned Jesus” yet?  We do want to have these things in order, otherwise it would be a lie…a falsity…this is serious stuff and we need to clear this up.
This is your quote outrageous, again I say your are the one with the color of Jesus hang up altho you denied you said that so I guess that makes you a liar.

That was about the most mumble jumble post I’ve seen in a while.  First of all Obama was born a muslim you can’t make that untrue.  I want to make people aware of Rev Wright who is attached at the hip with James Cone whom Obama says is his spiritual advisor who we do not need as a president.  If you think George Bush is bad !!!!
I guess you and Cyrena are on the same wavelength as I think she thought your post was Extraordinaire!!
Thats exactly what you and Cyrena need a look in the mirror in the light of reality. Trouble is you won’t see anything cause there is nothing there.

So ashamed, we live in a society which seems to have a far greater rate of racism than thought possible,  bigoted posts on TD continue to sully with intent the hopes and dreams of souls striving to obtain and live up to Martin Luther King’s speech. 

Obama’s wife may have been premature in finally being proud to be a citizen of U.S. 

Applied division of the people is very helpful in the scheme of things. Hate. forms a foundation of intolerance using religion,  politics and of course race.  Tools of the trade, power and wealth the goals. We see it here and we see it in Iraq.

Ignorance the tour guide for tribal superiority.

<<<<<<<    “or you can turn on your own faucet and just piss on ‘em.
I’m gonna stay home, since I don’t do church. But hopefully, you’ll choose your own faucet, and piss on enough for both of us.”  >>>>>>>>

That is so loving Christian (or insert religion of choice here Jewish, Muslim, Budhist, etc.) of you. It has been a while since I went to church. I forget what Book, Chapter, and verse that is. Maybe you will ‘learn me’ or ‘enlighten me’, or ‘teach me’ so that I can be a loving Christian like you. But I do remember Christ preached of love and peace. I think he was the one who also said something like, love thy neighbor as thyself. Or am I mistaken on that? Thanks for showing me how one lives that gospel.

The popcorn is an excellent idea CY.

Thanks for the tip.

BUT..I have to join you at another set. There’s better stuff on the other threads.

(love the sound effects though…too bad there isn’t a keyboard key for them)

Outraged,

Superb, Excellent, Extraordinaire. As usual,  you’ve hit the mark and dead on. These are painful realities that require a look in a mirror actually located in the LIGHT of reality.

Most will simply never see it. Still, I appreciate it, and more than a few others can learn from this as well.

Meantime, I noted something today; actually it had been floating around somewhere at various levels of consciousness before, but I didn’t take the time to actually confirm it until today.  I confirmed that these intellectually and intuitively challenged individuals are for the most part just scum on the pond of specific threads. Like, any thread that begins with a topic including Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, or anything they can possibly conjure up to connect.

That said, they pretty much seem to avoid any other serious discussion on any of the other threads. So, that’s a hint to a possible solution for avoiding the rift-raft.
No, it doesn’t filter out ALL of it, nor does it even avoid the main characters. BUT, it does narrow it down to a degree, (so much of the other stuff is totally over their heads anyway) and allows for a more civilized discussion above the flotsam.

So, that’s just a thought. I only offer it because while many of us frequently believe we can remain basically unaffected by the negatively of the hate mongering, it still sullies the air more than is healthy for any of us. And, truth be told, the wind has already been so foul, for so long, coming from the general direction of the District of Cheney that it’s just as well to avoid any additions whenever possible. It isn’t always, but you get my drift. (no pun intended).

Thanks again for the excellent bulls-eye series.

PS..the ‘menstrual members’ was perfecto mundo.

Leefeller,

Looks like it’s your turn in the ‘ashamed’ bucket. But then, only if you want to take a dip. Actually, it’s like the ‘selected template for the week’ or something. At least for bert/maani/lib/et all.

They’re practicing up for Sunday’s sermons I think, and that’s the theme this week…EVERYBODY ‘should be ashamed’. (well, except them of course).

So, if you go to church this week, you can either jump in the fountain of ‘shame’ or you can turn on your own faucet and just piss on ‘em.

I’m gonna stay home, since I don’t do church. But hopefully, you’ll choose your own faucet, and piss on enough for both of us.

Leefeller, would not what you propose lead to brownshirt and Hitler type atrocities like Jews having to wear yellow stars? Sounds like that to me. Sounds very intolerant. Sounds down right scary. What you propose, if even in jest, is the flip side of the same racist coin. You should be ashamed.

Cyrena:

As I mentioned before, now I am worrying about your sanity - to say nothing og your reading skills.

To begin with, the first half of your absurd response to me served only to prove almost everything I said about you.  I have seen people like you in courtrooms: the worst witnesses on their own behalfs because they simply don’t know how foolish and self-incriminating they are being.

As well, having engaged in the most common tactic for justifying the attempted stifling of debate (the old “fire in a crowded theater” trick), you have now added the oldest trick in the book to deflect truth about yourself: accuse your accuser of the selfsame things and hope people are fooled by the attempted reversal.  This is classic schoolyard bullying: “Sez you,” “You too” “No, you.” Etc.

Finally, you clearly do not read very well, since you completely missed the point of my little aside about your weight: it was a joke, Cyrena, based on my accusation that you “throw your weight around” - a phrase that is generally understood to mean that someone is HEAVY; thus my JOKING aside that, “for all I know” you may well be a “smallish woman.”  Since I have no idea how big or small you are, this was NOT a comment on your weight, but a joke about my use of a cliche.  Yet you turned it into a referendum on your weight, with COMPLETELY misplaced defensive replies.  Touchy, aren’t we?

Finally, in attempting to bamboozle people by “accusing the accuser,” you say, “I don’t know of anyone who MORE engages in accusations, PERSONAL ATTACKS, insinuations, exaggerations, disinformation, character defamation, and/or innuendo that YOU and possibly Chalmers.”

I have more than once challenged you to find a SINGLE WORD that I have said IN ANY THREAD that is an “accusation” (such as being on someone’s payroll or engaging in deception through multiple aliases), a personal attack (i.e., “attacking the messenger” rather than responding to the content of the post), insinuations (?), exaggerations (?), character defamation (or, indeed, ANY libel of ANY sort) or innuendo ABOUT ANYONE HERE.  I CONTINUE TO OFFER THAT CHALLENGE.

However, you have shown yourself to be a coward by not ONCE actually proving yourself correct - not JUST because you will NOT find anything to back up your accusations, but because you are too damn lazy to do anything but post (yup) ad hominem attacks on people rather than actually addressing the content of their posts.

You are the worst sort of bully, Cyrena - the kind who not only bullies - and then justifies and rationalizes that bullying with every ounce of arrogance and anger that you can muster - but one who then blames the victim by telling them that they DESERVE your bullying.

Shame on you.

Peace.  (yup, even now…)

Re: “lib in Texas”

I don’t care what color Jesus was since I think he only may have existed, and also because I’m not racist.  But I know YOUR Jesus is white and that is incorrect.  And if Jesus is very real to you then you should give Jesus the respect and admiration he deserves and worship him for who he really was and not some figment of your limited imagination.

You continue to yell and scream and trash talk along with “bert” and “menstrual member” with the very obvious intent to raise contentions about things you know very little about.  Yes, I think you’re not very intelligent. Since intelligent people KNOW that muslims are not trying to kill all white people and they also KNOW that Obama is NOT MUSLIM. 

Hate blinds people to truth and therefore lowers their level of intelligence.  The hatred you have shown here through your repeated posts, is a witness to this fact.  This therefore blinds you to bigger truths. Ultimately then this translates into your self inflicted lower intelligent level as well as “berts” and “menstrual members”. 

Yet, you go on and on and on, as if in some collaborated attempt to prove your incompetence of matters and your venomous hatred.  The hatred you encompass was apparent immediately in your original post, rendering all subsequent posts superfluous.

•  “You continually tell people to “shut up” when you do not agree with them;..”

Since you’re into obsessive compulsive disorder hair splitting Maani, get to work with some definitions and citations.
What is ‘continually’ and then post where I’ve continually told ‘people’ (we aren’t counting you or lib here) to ‘shut up’. (like I could really force anybody to do that).

•  “you continually engaged in name-calling (your favorite: “moron”)

Moron is one of my favorites, when I choose to use it. And, I only use it when it applies. Moron. So here again, that’s pretty much just you, and your cronies here.

•  “..and accusation (e.g., my being on Hillary’s payroll, or being more than one person here);..”

This is a major farce Maani, because I don’t know of anyone who MORE engages in accusations, PERSONAL ATTACKS, insinuations, exaggerations, disinformation, character defamation, and/or innuendo that YOU and possibly Chalmers. The others like bert and lib make pathetic attempts at the same, but the ignorance is so obvious with lib and others, that there is little attention paid.

I did once suggest that you were on Hillary’s payroll, and for all I know, you may be. I’ve also suggested that you have posted on this thread under multiple aliases, and as far as I’m concerned, that could be as well. Since you’ve long ago established yourself as a L-I-A-R, there’s no reason for anyone to believe you when you claim otherwise.

Then finally, more of the IED’s here, that you figure you can just keep repeating, and by doing so, make others believe the same, as if the people reading these comments and making comments of their own, CAN’T figure out what is being written and make their own interpretations…

•  “..you are continually accusing each individual who disagrees with you that they are either (i) the only person who believes as they do, or (ii) the only person who disagrees with you - despite the fact that an increasing number of posters disagree with you about similar things; and you are generally bullying and “throwing your weight around” (though for all I know you are a smallish woman)….

These are what you love to call ad hoc attacks Maani. It’s ALL opinion and innuendo from you, and you’ve said it all so many times before. You lie so effortlessly as an anonymous person in cyberspace, that I’m occasionally curious to observe how much more cautious you’d be about lying directly to a person’s face, when they can effectively slap the shit out of you for doing it. You’re as much a coward as Chalmers is. And it’s cowardly bullying on your part, to post all of this trash. Then when someone refuses to ‘be put into place’ by your PERSONAL ATTACKS, you get pissed, and just put more pressure on.

So, tell us ALL again, why is MATTERS that I am black, (though you wouldn’t know that if you actually saw me) and why I am a female, and a ‘smallest’ one at that. Tell us ALL, why that matters on this public forum, to you, and to Chalmers, and to lib in Tx.

Maybe you should take a poll Maani, to find out how many of those people posting here, actually care to know those things. YOU obviously care to know that, and Lib in Tx cares to know that, and Chalmers has been focused on my race/gender/age for over a year. But..why don’t you take a poll and find out how many other folks care about those things, (or the fact that I’m ‘smallish’ ) and at the same time, tell us why YOU do.

As for people agreeing with me or not agreeing with me, we’ve discussed that before as well. This is a public forum for discussion, and opinions. I don’t expect or require ‘agreement’ with my own positions, and I’m damned if I’m not going to call out a liar when the lie, and that includes YOU.

BTW Any assessment from “Doug” (as you call him here), is as insignificant as meaningless as your own.

Maybe you should get a real job Maani.

Oh it is so nice to be back in the thick with the bigots racists and the few enlightened ones.  Expressing opinions is what we do here on TD, even though some expressions are quite racist, just like crazy people,  racist’s believe “I am not crazy”.  Even racist’s should be allowed to express their opinions and if I was king, I would mark a big R on foreheads of racists and let them go through what the black folks endured for years.  Racists water fountains, restrooms, and of course the back seat of the bus.  Signs in the stores “No Racists Allowed”.
Not sure about the Sunday after Chruch BBQ and hanging fest’s though. 

Freedom of speech, even includes speech of the ignorant, bigots and racists.

Maani..

This is EXACTLY what libs posts do, whether they are intended as such or not…

” that such speech is being used as an incitement to riot, etc….

And, you can skip the lecture Maani, all you do is repeat yourself over and over and over again. Ad hominem being your very favorite word.

Don’t you know any others?

I just read your long winded shit above and Cyrena for a person who claims to be so educated all you need to do it Google James Cone, United liberation theology and black power and you will find out What I have posted is 100% true and that Wright embraces Cones theology.
OMG I guess you are going to have me arrested!!!ha For telling the truth at that.  All I can say is you truly are unhinged.  I really doubt anyone or thing can help you esp when you are an aethist which is fine with me, you can be anything you want and for sure you aren’t the brightest bulb.
Watch YOUR,  step if anyone needs to you sure do I can’t imagine anyone getting real close to you as hateful as you are.

Have missed your posts hope all is okay!!!

Cyrena you and Outraged really do think you are intelligent but guess what you really aren’t.
I guess to you two I am dangerous because I tell the truth?  Prove me wrong??? I researched all this its not something I just invented.  You two have a reading and comprehension problem. Outraged what the Hell is this what color is the Jesus in my church.  That color thing is YOUR hang up not MINE!! Jesus is Jesus, I have never heard anyone EVER discuss what color he was!!!
That crap comes straight from James Cone “black power” and Rev Wrights theologies. The following is the theology of James Cone & Rev Wright, Farrakhan.

I see today Axelrod (or whatever his name is) admitted to hiring a PR firm for Wrights church after all the fireworks.  Guess it worked as MSM is all quiet about it.
By Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008
E. Jason Wambsgans / Chicago Tribune / MCT
Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. gives a sermon at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois in October 2006. | WASHINGTON — Jesus is black. Merging Marxism with Christian Gospel may show the way to a better tomorrow. The white church in America is the Antichrist because it supported slavery and segregation.

Those are some of the more provocative doctrines that animate the theology at the core of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Barack Obama’s church.

Obama’s speech Tuesday on race in America was hailed as a masterful handling of the controversy over divisive sermons by the longtime pastor of Trinity United, the recently retired Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.

But in repudiating and putting in context Wright’s inflammatory lines about whites and U.S. foreign policy, the Democratic presidential front-runner didn’t address other potentially controversial facts about his church and its ties.

Wright has said that a basis for Trinity’s philosophies is the work of James Cone, who founded the modern black liberation theology movement out of the civil rights struggles of the 1960s. Particularly influential was Cone’s seminal 1969 book, “Black Theology & Black Power.”

Cone wrote that the United States was a white racist nation and the white church was the Antichrist for having supported slavery and segregation.

Today, Cone, a professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York, stands by that view, but also makes clear that he doesn’t believe that whites individually are the Antichrist.

In an interview, Cone said that when he was asked which church most embodied his message, “I would point to that church (Trinity) first.” Cone also said he thought that Wright’s successor, the Rev. Otis Moss III, would continue the tradition.

So why do you show up every day and run your mouth if it’s so terrible?

I’m sure the nice folks at Hillaryis44 would love to have your keen insight and wit to add to their conversation…

<<<<<<<<<<  Does that make it OK for someone to holler ‘FIRE’ in a dark and crowded theater, even when there isn’t one?

Is that covered under the 1st Amendment? >>>>>>>

Reread 2nd paragraph, last sentence. I say just that.

<<<<<  Does that make it OK for someone to holler ‘FIRE’ in a dark and crowded theater, even when there isn’t one?

Is that covered under the 1st Amendment?

I think NOT bert. >>>>>>>

Reread 2nd paragraph, last sentence. I say just that.

Cyrena:

“I’m also very much in favor of the free speech amendment. Does that make it OK for someone to holler ‘FIRE’ in a dark and crowded theater, even when there isn’t one? Is that covered under the 1st Amendment?”

This is the standard cop-out by anyone who wants to justify attempting to stifle discussion or debate. And it is as phony as a six-dollar bill.

Firstly, there is nothing REMOTELY similar between shouting fire in a crowded theater (which is a SAFETY issue) and making comments, however seemingly inflammatory, about something.

Secondly, even “hate speech” (which I do not think lib’s comments rise to the level of) is protected by the First Amendment, unless there is an “imminent risk” of “physical confrontation”; i.e., that such speech is being used as an incitement to riot, etc. Obviously, since cyberspace is not a “physical” place, the “imminent risk” argument does not apply.

Cyrena, you have done more to attempt to stifle debate on this site than anyone except MMC.  You continually tell people to “shut up” when you do not agree with them; you continually engaged in name-calling (your favorite: “moron”) and accusation (e.g., my being on Hillary’s payroll, or being more than one person here); you are continually accusing each individual who disagrees with you that they are either (i) the only person who believes as they do, or (ii) the only person who disagrees with you - despite the fact that an increasing number of posters disagree with you about similar things; and you are generally bullying and “throwing your weight around” (though for all I know you are a smallish woman).

Doug’s assessment of you (which I made myself, and has been intimated by bert, lib, susan and others) as a black woman with anger issues is exactly on the mark.  And I have suggested before that you SERIOUSLY need to get a grip, govern your passions, and engage in discussion and debate in a much more positive and constructive way.  You, of all people (given your comments about your background), should know better than to engage in ad hominem attack, insult, accusation and denigration.

Peace.

This is how you display your IGNORANCE lib..

“...Good luck explaining yourself, Obama. Any white presidential candidate couldn’t come within 1000 yards of a church that hailed a theologian preaching that kind of racist claptrap.”..

NOBODY at Trinity Church preaches this. NOBODY ANYWHERE preaches this.

No THEOLOGIAN ANYWHERE preaches the crap that you keep posting about this ‘so-called’ Black Liberation Theology.

It’s that simple lib. It does NOT EXIST within the organized religious community…ANYWHERE!!

The REALITY is that ‘LIBERATION Theology’ (NO BLACK ATTACHED) was the name of doctrine associated with the work of Archbishop Oscar Romero, (a WHITE CATHOLIC PRIEST)as far back as the late 70’s and early 80’s, specifically in Guatemala. This was when the politics of violence where consistently being used against innocent peasants, and primarily because they’d been TRAINED in these tactics of political violence, (and torture) by…you guessed it THE USA! (The US has trained torturers for decades, at what used to be called The School of the Americas).

That SAID, this CATHOLIC PRIEST became committed to the doctrine of Liberation Theology, and employed his own faith, and the faith of the community being victimized, to REJECT that very victimization.

Now I don’t expect you to understand ANY of that lib. I DO expect you to quit LYING and spreading your ignorance. The “Black” Liberation Theology is a MYTH, and there is NO CHRISTIAN FAITH preaching the death of all white people!!

There MAY VERY WELL BE some WHITE ‘pretenders’ or marauders of the Christian persuasion hollering for the DEATH of all BLACK people, and they used to dress up in white robes, and with pointy hoods and masks over their heads and faces, so they wouldn’t be connected to their DAY jobs, like sheriff, or pastor of the local evangelical church. However, they are WHITE!! NOT BLACK. Do you know the difference?

WHITE is ‘the ABSENCE of color!! That’s how you can tell the difference lib.

The Liberation Theology, (as it was once practiced decades ago and NOT ANY LONGER) was never a ‘black’ thing.

It was also NEVER connected to Islam! EVER! Islam is the religion practiced by Muslims, and Muslims are of ALL ethnicities, INCLUDING white!! There are a 1.3 BILLION Muslims in the world lib, and they practice their faith, Islam, which is a religion nearly as old a Christianity.

The Church that Obama belongs to; The United Church of Christ, is a CHRISTIAN denomination lib. And its composition is 90% WHITE!! Yes, that is the case of that particular segment of the over 100 various denominations of Christianity practiced in this country alone.

On the other hand lib, MUSLIMS worship in Mosques, NOT CHURCHES or Temples, or Synagogues.  Let me repeat this again lib. Trinity United Church of Christ is a CHRISTIAN Church, were CHRISTIANS worship, and in the case of Trinity in Chicago, (Obama’s church) most of the congregation happens to be African-American. Not ALL, but mostly, because the community is mostly African-American.

Now lib, there comes a point when spreading ignorance is unlawful. You’ve crossed it. You can only spread lies and do character defamation for so long, before somebody will INFORM you of the truth. Once that happens, and you’ve BEEN INFORMED, then the continuation of the lies and slander and defamation become WILLFUL! At that point, you’re subject to the laws of the land.

Now at this point in time, there are no “Hate Crime” statutes on the books in Texas, because GW (the biggest hate criminal of all) made sure that they wouldn’t become part of the laws of that state when he was the appointed Gov. (you probably voted for him).

I still recommend that you watch your step.

Nope, not ashamed of myself in the least bert. I’m also very much in favor of the free speech amendment.

Does that make it OK for someone to holler ‘FIRE’ in a dark and crowded theater, even when there isn’t one?

Is that covered under the 1st Amendment?

I think NOT bert.

I think lib is DANGEROUS, and I think you are as well.

cyrena writes:    “There ought to be a law against people like you lib. Actually, I think there ARE laws against people like you, put in place for the safety of the overall society.”

I don’t believe it!!!!!!! A Constitutional scholar appears not to know about the First Amendment. lib’s remarks are covered under that very important amendment. And you and people like you who want to censure anyone who disagrees with them are the main reason the Founding Fathers made Free Speech the First Amendment. Censure can never be tolerated by a free people. And of all people you should know that the Supreme Court has always upheld free speech including but not limited to flag burning. The only limitation the Supremes have ever set on on free speech in America is the one where you cannot, as an example, shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater if there is none.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

lib in Texas,

I think Outraged reads just fine, and I know I do.

I also see from the lastest piece of shit that you’ve posted, that you’re totally out of your mind.

YOU wrote this….

“....my church doesn’t make BIG issues about black and white and certainly doesn’t make comments about killing off all the blacks like Obamas chuch does about killing off all the whites….”

And guess what lib? It is totally DISGUSTING!!! I proves your ignorance outright, to even suggest such a thing.

You’ve been lying and smearing hyped-up hate propagana for weeks now, and it’s time for you to STFU!! As if things aren’t totally bad enough in the socio-psychology of our overall environment, we’ve got racist hate-mongers like you, taking up time and space to spread pure IGNORANCE!!

There ought to be a law against people like you lib. Actually, I think there ARE laws against people like you, put in place for the safety of the overall society.

Now get yourself to a hospital somewhere before you find yourself admitted against your will, escorted in a straight jacket.

lib in Texas

I see, sorry it’s just that when there aren’t any quotation marks sometimes it’s hard to know where they end and you start.

It’s nice to hear that your church doesn’t make a BIG issue out of black and white.  But I was just wondering…. still…what color is your Jesus?

BTW, no one has claimed that Obama’s church wants to “kill off all whites”, well..I mean except for YOU!  I think you’re confused.  Obama goes to a CHRISTIAN church.  As for the seriousness of the issue, really “lib in Texas”... it’s not that I’m not being serious enough it’s more of of you overreacting, stirring up contentions, lying.  Do you follow me.

Oh yeah, muslims are not trying to kill all whites.  Who is this slug you’re quoting?  I’m not going to waste my time today checking into it, but I think you’re getting a bum-steer there “lib in Texas”.

Cyrena:

Thanks for your heads-up re “oddly American.”  Sadly, there is not much I can do if someone starts cutting and pasting from my posts.  And asking (much less demanding) that they stop is only likely to make them do it all the more.  So just be happy (LOL) to know that I am still just Maani, and not “oddly American, or “hinnis” or anyone else. [And no, Outraged, I am not “bert” either.]

In the meantime, here is an alternative poll for all to consider:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/us/politics/04campaign.html?sq=nagourney&st=nyt&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1207328540-YD78aXTobcihxq8KTb7XhA&pagewanted=print

Peace.

So Outraged, you don’t read so well do you??? Those are not my comments they are Rich Mathes’ comments.
Once in a while read the whole thing before you jump in and make idiot like comments.
Further more my church doesn’t make BIG issues about black and white and certainly doesn’t make comments about killing off all the blacks like Obamas chuch does about killing off all the whites. Its a lot more serious than that and all you want to do is be a smart a**, thinking it makes you look g o o d, to all of the other idiots out there.

So… lib in Texas, has your church adopted the historically accurate “darker skinned Jesus” yet?  We do want to have these things in order, otherwise it would be a lie…a falsity…this is serious stuff and we need to clear this up.

“lib”, it comes across as if you’re scared of muslims, are you scared of muslims…? 

Your quote: “In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President!”

Really…wouldn’t that be a change of pace.  Cause boy, right now we have this crazy born again christian president bombing defenseless counties like Iraq who’ve done nothing to us.  And now the crazy fool wants to bomb Iran, what a nutjob.

Ms outraged whacko, I don’t read youtude that much as a whole lot of it is NOT true.

But thats what you and Expat like. UNtruths.

Hi, Expat, If you don’t agree with someone just zap em.  Doesn’t work thay way esp. when you print the truth which your laziness wouldn’t know about!!!!!
Tee hee !!!!!!

Well, Maani at least I saw no nasty names, that is different.

Outraged, what a wonderful detective.  Keep your day job if you have one!!!!

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion
per capita in the United States , especially in the
minority races!!!
Allah or The Lord Jesus Christ?
By Rick Mathes
Last month I attended my annual training session
that’s required for maintaining my state prison
security clearance. During the training session
there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and
Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic
Imam had to say.
The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of
Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for
questions and answers. When it was my turn, I
directed my question to the Imam and asked:
‘Please, correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand
that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a
holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the
world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a
command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place
in heaven. If that’s the case, can you give me the
definition of an infidel?’
There was no disagreement with my statements and,
without hesitation, he replied, ‘Non-believers!’
I responded, ‘So, let me make sure I have this
straight. All followers of Allah have been
commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith
so they can have a place in heaven. Is that
correct?’
The expression on his face changed from one of
authority and command to that of ‘a little boy who
had just been caught with his hand in the cookie
jar.’
He sheepishly replied, ‘Yes.’
I then stated, ‘Well, sir, I have a real problem
trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all
Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley
ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to
guarantee them a place in heaven!’
The Imam was speechless!
I continued, ‘I also have a problem with being your
‘friend’ when you and your brother clerics are
telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a
question. Would you rather have your Allah, who
tells you to kill me in order for you to go to
heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because
I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there
with me?’
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his
head in shame.
Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of
the ‘Diversification’ training seminar were not
happy with Rick’s way of dealing with the Islamic
Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims’
beliefs.
In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters
in the U.S. to elect the President! I think
everyone in the U.S. should be required to read
this, but with the Liberal justice system, liberal
media and the ACLU, there is no way this will be
widely publicized, unless each of us send it on!
Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.
This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is
a well-known leader in prison ministry.
The man who walks with God always get s to his
destination. If you have a pulse you have a
purpose.

We may not have to wait 20 years…Barack Obama,
Democratic candidate for president, was born a
Muslim!!! You think he is going to admit to anyone
that he is a Muslim? Think about what you just
read. He is a lion in sheeps clothing! The Word of
God says, that the enemy will come in as an ‘Angel
of Light’..... It also says Beware when men cry
Peace, Peace, then surely destruction will come.
The entire campaign of Obama is…... ‘Peace and
Inspiration’...
Wake up People!!...

Now smarmy is a word that conjures up a picture of the Clinton’s in me mind, quite accurately I should say.  Just maybe, I am not alone in this thought.

From taking Wright out of context, to saying “far as I know he Obama is not Muslim”, and of course Bill the anchor around her neck the ex president, the one and only reason Hillary is in the race.  A long laundry list of smarmy, dost seem to be on the Clinton side.

Obama, may not get the nomination, the Washington establishment, the big money brokers are pushing Hillary, she is their person.  Obama has more of the grass roots people support, we know were the power is. Smarmy, a good word for politics in general.

So bert,

I’ll just repost the source of your ‘knowledge’ (as written by YOU…typical misspellings included)

“From Margin of Error and Cinfidence Levels made Simple by Pam Hunter”

And there we have it. bert’s ‘source’ of how to do statistical research..MADE SIMPLE no less. Now I don’t know how one could jack-up something made so simple, as it ‘idiot proof’...but leave it to bert..she can and will…every single time.

Outraged, I am a little better. Herbs from Indiana, believe it or not. They were laying around in the cabinet, so I decided to give them a shot.

Thanks for asking.

It’s pretty amazing that Maani considers this to be ‘smarmy’ reporting. (what an old fashioned word).

It’s JUST A POLL MAANI, and for what it’s worth, it happens to be one of the better and more professional ones. Did you even bother to look at it?

It’s a reasonable enough question, since you’re just now finding out about the PNAC.

And where do you presume a created hysteria? Think about what you’re suggesting here:

“...to justify creating pro-Obama hysteria among the Obama supporters…”

Maani, how does one go about creating a ‘pro-Obama’ hysteria among the OBAMA SUPPORTERS! Is that an oxymoron or what?

Could it actually be YOU that’s become all hysterical?

Are you unable to comprehend that the readers of Truthdig have NO OTHER EXPOSURE to ANY OTHER MEDIA, where we could indulge in OTHER polls to our hearts desire?

By the way Maani, there’s a new guy or girl in town, who’s been ‘using your stuff’. Yep, it’s some person who goes by the handle of ‘oddly american’. I’m not kidding you either Maani. He or she has copied some of your favorite language VERBATIM. Yep, I think it’s like plagiarism or something.  Maybe you should sue ‘em or whatever. I mean,  I’m just saying. He or she might be trying to impersonate you or something…like that hinnis guy. Remember him? He just appears from time to time, and it seems to be the same with this ‘odd american’.

So, if none of these other persona’s have your permission to impersonate you, or copy all of your context and language styles, then I think you should just get right on it.
Meantime, we hear yet another incredible irony from bert. She thinks Outraged sees a ‘conspiracy’ everywhere.

Nevermind that Maani thinks this post on a PPP poll is an intentional effort to ‘create PRO-Obama hysteria among Obama SUPPORTERS!’

You all DO keep the ‘Bizarre’ in the headlines.

So is “bert” lying again, because earlier on “bert” claimed that she was a ..well… a she/her/woman/female.

Coincidence. He is in NY. I am in CA.

Do you see conspiracy every where?

There she goes again Cyrena.

“bert’s” quote: “There you go again cyrena, talking about something you know so little about.”

And “bert” should know because “bert” knows a lot about “knowing so little”.

BTW, are you feeling better..?  Take care.

There you go again cyrena, talking about something you know so little about.

<<<<<<<  “Other factors, such as refusal to be interviewed…”  >>>>>>>>

Pollsters don’t even count those who refuse to be interviewed. For example, if the interview sample is to be 1542 people, they call until they get 1542 interviews. If someone declines to be interviewed it does not factor into the poll at all. And it certainly does not factor into the margin of error.

And the margin of error also does not consider “.....additional error that is more difficult to quantify.”  This statement is complete nonsense and a fabrication.

From Margin of Error and Cinfidence Levels made Simple by Pam Hunter

” How well the sample represents the population is gauged by two important statistics – the survey’s margin of error and confidence level. They tell us how well the spoonfuls represent the entire pot. For example, a survey may have a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percent at a 95 percent level of confidence. These terms simply mean that if the survey were conducted 100 times, the data would be within a certain number of percentage points above or below the percentage reported in 95 of the 100 surveys.”

Link to complete article below:

http://www.isixsigma.com/library/content/c040607a.asp

Conservative Yankee is totally and completely RIGHT.  “......the two point lead is statistically insignificant.”

Hey CY we agree on something! Yes we can !!!!!! 

Let’s see, Maani posts at 8:29, then “bert” posts at 8:31.  Hmmm… is this one and the same person?  Because Maani, I thought you were hinnis..

Truth Dig is FOX on the left?????

Gee I had always thought that it was MSNBC.

My bad !!!!!!!!!

This is exactly the kind of smarmy reporting I have come to expect from LieDig: they use a SIGNLE poll - out of DOZENS - to justify creating pro-Obama hysteria among the Obama supporters.

Maybe LieDig’s new slogan should be: “Unfair and Unbalanced.”  After all, they ARE the FOX news of the (supposed) left.

Peace.

I know what you mean Leefeller…. LOL.  But the strange thing is, Clinton called ‘em out, and out they came.  Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

CY, taken directly from the poll analysis….

“..The survey’s margin of errors is +/- 2.8%. Other factors, such as refusal to be interviewed
and weighting, may introduce additional error that is more difficult to quantify.”

That is already ‘figured in’ to the 2 point lead.

So, it’s NOT ‘statistically insignificant’ in terms of the poll itself. It was well conducted.

Now you can argue the overall significance of polls in general, but for the purposes of this particular one, it is what it is.

Did you not have a way to link to it in the pdf format?

If so, I’ll be happy to cut and paste it for you here, if only because it is one of the more professionally accomplished surveys.

No racists here on TD, I know because they told me so.

Expat, I can do the same to you.  You clever devil!
Ha ha ha ha ha !!!!

Lee, the person making the remark helped to get Obama into Harvard.  He used the words shadowy guy named Khalid.  All the reseach I can find so far Obama and Muhammad are only connected around the fringes.  There is still a LOT out there to research tho.

Obama has shown he can address controversial issues in a thoughtful manner and force the media back to covering the main issues in this campaign: the economy, Iraq, health care, and global warming. The Republican’s will attempt to throw up the usual wedge issues flack but it won’t work this time around. Obama is a much more skillful campaigner than Kerry and will not allow himself to be “swiftboated”. I also think McCain doesn’t have much stomach for the sleaze factor in elections and will want to campaign on the issues. He really believes he can distance himself from Bush and pick up the independent voters. The economy will sink him however. No party has ever stayed in power when the economy has been bad. The real negative in this election will be all of the racists coming out of the woodwork, egged on by Fox News, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Bill O"Reilly, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh.

^ ^ bye, bye, dos vidanya, arivederchi, aloha, auf viederzane, and over and out!

Re: lib in Texas

But you forget “lib in Texas”, Obama is 50% white, since his mother was white.  Of course maybe his father had an ancestor somewhere down the line that was partially white too.  Then Obama could be like 51% white, right?  Then what?

Of course the opposite could be true.  Possibly somewhere down the line in his mothers family there was partially black relative, then Obama could be 51% black.

And all this makes SUCH a difference doesn’t it.  What you’re saying is so bizarre, it’s not even funny.  For Christ’s sake my grandfather was Russian so probably I want to Stalinize the whole of the USA because somewhere in the deepest darkest recesses of my mind I must be Russian at heart. (because of course ALL RUSSIANS were so HAPPY with Stalin…LOL)

You’re idiotic.  No, I am NOT scared of Obama, nor am I scared of black people, white people, asian people, mexican people, mixed people or ANY people with the ONE exception of NUTTY PEOPLE!  Guess which group I put you in.

Report it.  I’m sure the editors will look it up and find out what I have posted is true!!!!!
You are the whacko with your head buryed in the sand, its easier for you to just call people names.  Makes you look so good!!!!!!

Lee, my husband and I both read it and I meant to look it up but forgot until now.  It was this week when I saw it so we are trying to figure it out. Sorry!  I am working on it.

I KNEW IT!!! YOU OBAMAITES WILL NOT RESEARCH ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU MIGHT FIND OUT THE TRUTH.  I KNEW YOU WOULD COME BACK WITH THE RACTIST WHEN IN FACT YOU ARE THE RACISTS!!!

WHAT I HAVE POSTED IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND IF YOU HAD ANY DECENCY ABOUT YOU, YOU WOULD LOOK IT UP FOR YOUR SELF.

YOUR THE STUPID WHACKO’S FEAR MONGERING?? HOW CAN THAT BE ATTRIBUTED TO ME WHEN WHAT I POSTED CAME FROM OBAMAS MENTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Listen, you lazy persons get busy and prove me wrong instead of calling me names.  Proves to me too that you don’t really care what Obama is about just elect a black person.

LOL   your quote: “Anyway us Whites will all be dead !!!!!!

That’s funny “lib in Texas”.  Except you and others keep saying that you’re not racist.  Look at your fear-mongering.  I for one am more scared of your ideology than Obama or Rev. Wright’s since your ideology keeps everyone enslaved, everyone.

Expat is right, you are a certified WHACKO. 

Maybe this will help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc

I keep reading blog comments from liberals who believe that the Obama-Wright controversy is manufactured, that it’s much ado about nothing, that it’s ridiculous to hold Obama responsible for what his pastor says, etc.

This is whistling past the graveyard. It’s one thing to believe that it shouldn’t be an issue. But that’s not the world we live in. The Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s views are not news. Obama’s been in that church for 20 years. He’s identified Wright as his spiritual father. Yet Wright is in every apparent respect the antithesis of the irenic, transracial healing figure that Obama presents himself as, and that many people believe him to be.
Wright has openly embraced the “black liberation theology” of James Cone, a prominent theologian who has advocated some pretty shocking things, to wit:

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.
Good luck explaining yourself, Obama. Any white presidential candidate couldn’t come within 1000 yards of a church that hailed a theologian preaching that kind of racist claptrap.
Speaks for its self.  HOLY COW !!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear lib in texas ...

Could you please post the exact url which explains how
Khalid Abdul Muyhammad (who was a member of the
Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers) assisted
in getting Obama into Harvard? The implications
are enormous ... and, if it’s true, should be brought
to light, big time.

^ in Asia Times by Howard Zinn.  Here’s a link I think you’ll find interesting regarding Obama et al.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JD04Aa01.html

You are a certified whacko!  I hope the guys in white coats come for you soon!  I should report your comment.  In fact….......

And mysterious Khalid Abdul Muhammad, who some how in the shadows got Obama into Harvard.
Anyway us Whites will all be dead !!!!!!
Unbelievable?? Just Google the last three and Wright will pop up in all of them.
A lot more to come.  Maybe the msm will get involved if they find out Obamas mentors want all whites dead or destroyed. I can’t even believe I am posting this can’t wrap my brain around what I have just been reading.

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods who do not belong to the black community
... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.
This is the message that fuels Rev Wrights sermons.  James Cone new yorks Union Theological Seminary says Wright most embodies this message.

Now was not Hillary supposed to lock in Penn?  Depends on what you mean by a lock?  Entitlement is not working for the voters, but the status quo is working very hard to counter reality. 

Hillary is the only one who can win against McCant, wow! a real crowd pleaser, makes me think twice about even voting. Especially when Hillary has campaigned for McCain. Maybe Obama should campaign for McCain too that why others could say Hillary will never win aginst McCain. 

For the Democratic party, some may be right when they say the Washington establishment is loosing hold, people are crossing party lines, plus people are paying attention, for what it is worth?

Cyrena,

The fundamental shift happening within the Democratic Party is the important facet to watch.  We are, almost certainly, seeing the DLC types digging in hard right now because they know that if Clinton loses…they’re done.

Even if Obama goes on to lose the GE, they’d still probably be pretty well washed up.  They’re not going to give up the party that they’ve run into the ground without a fight though.  Think Hitler retreating through the Soviet Union: scorched Earth and never surrender.

The generational aspect you mention (and written about elsewhere on TruthDig) is important…but mostly overlooked.  It’s the 800 lb gorilla in the living room (and it’s happening, to a lesser extent, on the Republican side too).

I don’t have “faith” in Obama, but i know that i hold no hope for the boomer politicians.  16 years of them in the Oval Office and we’re just about cooked.  It’s really too bad that the best of that generation stayed far away from politics.

Polls only count if they say what you want them to say…

And jeez, Outraged, how can you go around taking bert’s words out of context.  That was a week ago and she was talking about general election polls.  You’re not being fair.

Of course, in her original post on this thread she quoted GE polls…but never mind that, move along, there’s no rational disconnect here.

The point wouldn’t be if Obama actually won PA (a long shot), but if he once again erased a huge deficit and kept it close.  We all remember how Clinton needed - in the words of her husband - to win TX and OH big to keep going.  Of course, that changed and the squeaker in TX became a “comeback” victory that told us things about momentum.

Remember, it only counts if Clinton wins.

You’re right on this bert, (not like most folks wouldn’t already know it) that this isn’t the only poll ‘out there’.

It does however; happen to be one of the better ones. (and I’ve created and analyzed more than my fair share of many).  I took time to look it over, and PPP is one of the best out there, for doing this kind of research.

Of course they change, and THAT is the point. That’s what polls are supposed to measure; at least that’s one of the things. For anyone really hoping to gain information on public opinion based on polls, this one is excellent, because it breaks it down into the issues and other demographics.

Overall, a very impressive poll.

I’m not sure where you come up with ‘smug’ or why you feel it’s to any advantage for you to use terms like ‘Obamabot’s’ and similar other insults.

There is something inherently evil in your combative competitive mentality when we’re ‘supposedly’ all the same political party.

Guess that means we really aren’t. That too, is not surprising, and the poll (along with the latest piece by Ellen Goodman) brings light to the large difference in the thinking of those from the ‘old school’ (and I’m talking way back…like my own mother’s generation) and those of the middle age group, and those of the younger generation as well.

In short, the Democratic party is undergoing a long needed switch from the old DLC, which represents an old mentality that doesn’t work for the 21st Century. So, even if we WANTED to stay ‘frozen in time’ we can’t. A forward momentum simply won’t allow it.

So, you can make up all the names and insults that you want. And yes, you can try to STOP PROGRESS, or even move us backwards. But, its damn hard to go against the tide, and particularly when it’s taking you in the wrong direction.

Still, some people spend their entire lives doing exactly that.

Try to get things straight, Outraged. The quote you cite is about the NOVEMBER election. (Much farther away in time and so meaningless.)

This poll is about the PRIMARY ELECTION.

And as I have said before polls are only a snapshot in time. And any poll is only as good as its design. And things do change. And things can change in the primary, too. So yes. The poll(s) is/are meaningless except as it shows us something of what the electorate is thinking. NOW.

All I was attempting to point out, before Obamabots get all excited is that the poll that Truth Dig posted is not the only one out there.

And remember NH. Polls there said Obama was ahead. But it did not turn out that way.

So I was just trying to head off the smug Obamabot’s boring posts.

Should have known better.

Re: bert

That’s an awful wordy comment for someone who said this just ONE DAY AGO.

“It doesn’t matter what the polls say right NOW. The elction is not right now. THINGS CHANGE. The General is a little over 7 months a way. A lot can and will happen between now and then. And what goes up can also go down.”

** LOL! Here’s the link but you’ll have to scroll down to the comment.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080327_guilty_by_observation/

There are lots of different polls out there. Some are designed well and some are not. So before all you Obamabots have Obamamania and a Chris Matthrews style leg moment let me rain on your parade a bit.

A new Quinnipiac shows In Pennsylvania, HRC leads the Dem primary by 9 points (was 12 points in mid-March); HRC leads among women, white men, white women, age 45+, no college degree, and in Allegheny, Northeast, Northwest, Southwest and Central regions; Obama leads among AfAm, <45, college grads, and in Philadelphia and the Southeast.

Further info on how well Clinton would do against McCain in November in key swing states is very good for Hillary and not so good for Obama.

Clinton Stronger Than Obama in Key Swing States

New Quinnipiac polling results in three of the largest and most important swing states in the Electoral College finds that Sen. Hillary Clinton does better than Sen. Barack Obama against Sen. John McCain in a general election match up.

Florida: Clinton 44, McCain 42; McCain 46, Obama 37
Ohio: Clinton 48, McCain 39; Obama 43, McCain 42
Pennsylvania: Clinton 48, McCain 40; Obama 43, McCain 39

Said pollster Peter Brown: “When it comes to November, Sen. Hillary Clinton’s strength is a big edge over Sen. Barack Obama among white voters, who have not given a majority of their votes to a Democratic presidential nominee since Lyndon Johnson in 1964.”