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Ear to the Ground

Dutch Lawmaker’s Anti-Islam Film Hits the Web

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Posted on Mar 27, 2008
Wilders
hodja.wordpress.com

Geert Wilders’ film “Fitna,” which can be translated to mean strife, is certain to cause just that, given his already divisive stance vis-à-vis Islam.

Conservative Dutch politician Geert Wilders certainly isn’t helping resolve religious and cultural tensions within his country with the release of his short film “Fitna” (running time 17 minutes), which portrays Islam in an extremely negative light. According to the BBC, the Dutch government “has distanced itself” from Wilders’ views. Good idea.


BBC:

It also displays a graph showing how the number of Muslims in the Netherlands and Europe has grown.

The film ends with someone turning pages of a Koran, followed by a tearing sound.

A text that appears on the screen says: “The sound you heard was from a page (being torn from a) phone book.

“It is not up to me, but up to the Muslims themselves to tear the spiteful verses from the Koran.”

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By Frogman, April 3, 2008 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

Dam. I did it again. I wrote their when I meant to write they’re. Sorry I’m getting sloppy in my old age.

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By Frogman, April 3, 2008 at 7:19 am Link to this comment

Ali, sorry it has taken me so long to get back to. I overlooked your posting. What you quote from the Koran is in the Koran but so are the quotes that I posted. So on one hand the Koran says that you Muslims believe in the revelation that was made to the prophets before Muhammad but obviously Muhammad came to see a distinction because in later chapters he repeatedly tells his followers to kill the unbelievers. You have no doubt seen the quotes that I have posted in reply to Fadels’ ravings and you know that they really are quotes from the Koran. You know that they are not false claims and that I have made no false claims. I have made no false claims about your Prophet, his Koran, the history of Islam or the reality of the daily murders committed by Muslims all over the world and justified by them with the very versus that I quoted. I’m am also sure that you are aware of the recent statement on British television by Imam Abdul Makin when asked why Allah told Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims the Imam said,” non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet.”  The Imam did not deny that the Prophet told Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslim. The Imam said that non-Muslims were never innocent. Islamic lawyer Anjem Choudary said, ” If you are a Muslim you are innocent in the eyes of God.If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God.” So I don’t make up any false claims I just read the Koran, the Hadiths and quote what I find there and then I read the newspapers and quote what your Imams and lawyers are saying. If I’m wrong their wrong too. On the topic of the cow, why don’t your Imams use that verse to tell all of the Muslims who are killing innocent Jews and Christians in the name of Allah to stop? Or do you deny that there are Muslims murdering innocent Jews and Christians? Or do you believe that there are innocent Jews and Muslims?

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By magouche, April 2, 2008 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

Hey Lefty, you forget the most daft part of muslim protest:  the taking off of the shoe and hitting someone/something with it.  A real corker, that, especially when used on inanimate objects.
..

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By A. Beverly, April 1, 2008 at 5:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The United States Senate failed to examine Islam. Murder, rape, assassination, beheading, massacre and sacrilege of the dead were all practiced by Muhammad, all taught by him and have been observed by Muslims throughout their history.

Islam is the product of a jumbled, chaotic, ignorant, demonic, immoral mind. Terrorism is not an ideology, it is a tool; but the terrorists kill for an ideology. They call that ideology Islam.

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By Frogman, April 1, 2008 at 6:26 am Link to this comment

Every time I read one of Fadel’s postings I have to laugh. I have an image of him sitting at his computer banging away at his computer keyboard in impotent rage, smoke coming out of his ears and the keyboard bouncing as he pounds out his hate. Poor little Fadel, all he can do when confronted with the ugly reality of Islam is call people names. And he isn’t even creative, he uses the same insults over and over again. At least he could come up with some new insults. I bet he would howell like a stuck pig if one of the people that he has insulted said that Fadel was a filthy pig oinking out Muslim poison. Or, if he was called a rabid dog barking out Muslim filth. But he believes that it is alright to call other people names. in reality poor, poor little Fadel is not articulate enough to defend his religion in any other way. Or perhaps he is just ignorant to Western ways and he thinks that insulting people that you disagree with is proper discourse here like it is in his culture. Fadel, in the West we don’t insult people that we disagree with. It is considered a sign of ignorance. We are either courteous in our disagreement or we are silent. Since you are not knowledgeable enough about Islam or not rational enough to defend it with out insulting people I think that our poor little Fadel would be better off being silent.

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By Fadel Abdallah, March 31, 2008 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

Here comes the rabid dog, Lefty, barking out his venomous saliva, when he manages to get loose from the treatment sessions for his rabies.

These threads would really become very boring without his occasional incoherent rants. Bring it on filthy lefty. This is free entertainment!

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By Frogman, March 31, 2008 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

Fadel, Thank you. Your last raving has made it obvious to anyone who reads it which one of us is consumed with hate. You can not respond to my questions about Muslims killing innocent people all over the world because you can not dispute it. The stories about Islamic savages killing innocent people all over the world every day do not come from my insides evil or other wise. The stories about Muslim barbarism come from world wide newspapers, some of them from Islamic countries. All you can do when confronted with the hate of Islam is to call me names. You are made impotent when confronted with the horror of Islam. I feel sorry for you. God bless and grant you grace.

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By Lee, March 31, 2008 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

One of the wisest decisions our American forefathers made was to separate church and state. One of the major criticisms of Islamic governing is that it’s based on a theocracy. Archaic 13th century religious laws, like sharia,  dictate the behavior and fate of the Islamic individual. In America, individual rights and freedoms, which cost the blood of so many Americans, past and present, represent our most treasured values and accomplishments. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time with people who bash America, while defending the Islamic way of life. And, if you notice, many of the people bashing America live here and enjoy all the benefits. Many of the people bashing America have never made a contribution of their time, or resources to this country ... they just like to sit on the sidelines and criticize. I am grateful to this country for all the freedoms and opportunities it has provided. For the people who bash America and defend the Islamic way of life ... you don’t have to live here ... can always move to an Islamic country.

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By Fadel Abdallah, March 31, 2008 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

There is no point to try to respond at length to a fanatic, brainwashed hater of Islam. All that evil that you keep repeating, as a broken record, about Islam emanates from the evil inside yourself. That’s why it’s said, “It is in the eyes of the beholder!”

You’re obviously a rabid barking dog and the Arabic proverb says, “Clouds high in the skies are not harmed by the barking of dogs.” I hope that you will be consumed by your own hatred till you drop dead! I can see that you hardly have a high school education. So there is no hope for you to see the light if I were to respond in detail to every piece of hate-garbage you spew. I will not give you the honor of any further response.

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By Frogman, March 31, 2008 at 6:02 am Link to this comment

OK, so by your thinking there is a Baptist race, a Buddhist race, a Roman Catholic race and so on. On the spread of Islam. How sad it is that you don’t know your own history better. It is not to Islam’s credit that it has infected all these other “races” it is to it’s shame. There was no peaceful spread of Islam.  Islam was spread by the sword, the shadow of the sword as the Koran calls it, When your pure Semites swept our of Arabia as a savage hoard they forced conversions or made life so desperate for unbelievers, dhimmis, that they converted to Islam or fled. This conquest is all recorded in your own literature. As to your point about one-fifth of humanity being Muslim and therefore more right than I am, What are they more right about than I am? That killing innocent people in the name of God is good?  And again following your thinking I suppose that you think that the four-fifths of humanity that are not Muslim are more right than the one-fifth that is.On the subject of hate I noticed that you do not try to refute the fact that Muslims are slaughtering innocent people all over the wold. Since you have not denied the truth of this Muslim inflicted slaughter I must ask. Aren’t all these murders proof of Muslim hate for unbelievers and do you approve of the barbaric action of your fellow Muslims? And last to the subject of envy. What on Earth would any one find in Islam to envy? Out side of taking credit for the innovations of the people that Islam conquered the only positive contribute that Islam has made to humanity is the preservation and translation of some Greek scrolls. Islam is a failed culture. Islam has failed to lift its people out of poverty, ignorance and violence. Islam has thrived in the most backward places in the world. Could it be that that’s what makes Muslims so angry, so full of hate? Muslims believe that only they are true believers. That Allah has put everything on the Earth for them and they have nothing. To find work, to get an education they have to come to the West. And they see our prosperity, our science, medicine and the quality of life that we have and they are confused. If they are the true believers how come Allah has given the unbelievers so much and the true believers so little?  When this happens a Muslim has two choices. He must blame Islam or he must blame the West. The smart ones leave Islam and find prosperity. The others blame the West, come to hate the West and some become murders. Again, I don’t know if this is fact, I am only sharing my thoughts with you. Perhaps you can set me straight. If it is not envy and hate that drives Muslims all over the world to kill innocent people what is it. I hate to keep bringing up the Muslim killing of innocent people but it is the constant killing of innocent people by Muslims that makes me think that Islam is evil.

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By Fadel Abdallah, March 30, 2008 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

“To the best of my knowledge Islam is not a race but a religion. A religion that has followers from all over the world of every race and color. Including my own so no matter what I think of Islam i am not a racists.”
=================================
If the Jews can call themselves a race, (i.e. Semitic) so Muslims can also call themselves “Semitic” too by virtue of being descendants of Abraham through his son Ishmael. In fact, Muslims are more pure Semitic than Jews. But of course, racists like you do not understand the meaning of this deep connection. You’re too much engrossed into your own race!

But I must add that though the original stock of Muslims were as pure Semitic as Semitics can be, it’s to the credit of Islam’s openness that it now includes all the races of the world. And it is this fear in your heart about the peaceful spread of Islam that makes you rage with both fear and envy. Have you learned, little Frogy, that Muslims constitute now one-fifth of humanity. One fifth of humanity cannot be wrong while a hate-monger like you can be right!

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By Frogman, March 30, 2008 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

Fadel, I am just as qualified to read the Koran and to have opinions about it as you are. I am not a hate monger or a racist. I read your book and repeat what I find in it. And you should not accuse other people of taking things from the Koran out of context when you do it yourself. For example you quoted 2:256 how about the next line? 2:257 “God is the patron of the faithful. He leads them from darkness to light. As for unbelievers, their patrons are false gods, who lead them from light to darkness. They are the heirs of Hell and shall abide in it for ever.” In 5;32 right after the line you quote, ” Those who make war against God and his apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the country.” I assume that “spread disorder in the land includes people who are defending their homes and families from the rape and pillage of Jihad or who don’t want to be victims of sharia. Your Koran is full of hate and you accuse other people of hate. You pull passages out of the Koran out of context and you accuse others of quoting out of context. This trick is getting old. It wont work much longer. As people in the West come to read the Koran they will see Islam for what it is. A religion that exhorts it followers to slaughter innocents for the pleasure of Allah. You called me a hate monger because I criticize Islam. I have never set off a bomb in a crowed market to kill and terrorize innocent people. I have never killed a monk at prayer. I have never blown up a school full of little girls or killed a teacher because I think that women should not be allowed an education.  I have never kidnapped another human being and cut off his head with a knife in front of a video camera. I have never done any of these things and you call me a hate monger. Yes I’m a hate monger. I hate the horror that Islam is inflicting on innocent people all over the world in the name of God. I hate the fact that you Muslims are outraged when Islam is confronted with the horror done in its name but you are never outraged by the people who do the horror. I saw riots in the streets of Muslim cities when the cartoons of the Prophet were published in a Danish newspaper. I saw people carrying signs calling for the death of the people who drew the cartoons.  But I never saw a riot because of the deaths of innocent people killed by a Muslim bomber. I never saw a sign calling for the death of people who defame Islam with the blood of innocent children. Muslim do horrible things in the name of Islam and no Muslims voices are raised in outrage. But cartoons can bring thousands into the streets. I’m a hate monger. i hate the fact the Muslims value human life so little that they think that killing innocent people is justified every time they are offended. I’m a hate monger. I hate hate. I fear Islam because I see it as a religion of hate. I read the Koran and the Hadiths I read hate. I pick up a newspaper, turn on the TV or log on to the internet and I read about Muslim bombers killing people out shopping. I see pictures of burning cars and broken bodies of people who had been going about their lives, harming no one blown to pieces by a Muslim bomber. All over the world I see the results of Muslim hate. Not Christian hate, not Buddhist hate, Not Jewish hate, Muslim hate. And you accuse me of being a hate monger. Of course I hate what Muslims are doing. I be crazy not to. One other thing. You also called me a racist. I don’t know if you know what that means, thought it sounded good or was, again taking a cheap shot. To the best of my knowledge Islam is not a race but a religion. A religion that has followers from all over the world of every race and color. Including my own so no matter what I think of Islam i am not a racists.

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By Fadel Abdallah, March 30, 2008 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

OK Frogman! Related to the frog species you might qualify, but certainly you are not qualified to be an honest reader of the Qur’an. As typical of hate-mongers and racists, you select things out of context to prove your preconceived ideas about Islam, which go back to the theology of the Inquisition and the Crusaders.

However, before you drop dead, consumed by your hatred and racism, I wish to introduce you to what is known among the scholars of the Qur’an as the last abrogating statements on the freedom of faith and believe or disbelieve, war and the value of human life:

1. “There is no compulsion in matters of religion, for the ways of truth and error have been made manifest (so you have the freedom to choose)” (Chapter 2:256)

2. “Whoever kills a human soul (outside the just law of retribution for being a killer) by way of spreading corruption on earth, he would be as one who kills all humanity.” (Chapter 5:32)

3. “And fight (only)in the Way of God those who fight you, and do not be the aggressors; for indeed God does not like those who are aggressors.” (Chapter 2:244)

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By dihey, March 29, 2008 at 7:08 pm Link to this comment

The Dutch Government never condemned the Goebbelsian van Gogh/Ali movie. When I was young this was called hypocrisy.
Free speech? ‘Mein Kampf’ of Adolf Hitler cannot be sold in the Netherlands. Hypocrisy again.

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By Ali, March 29, 2008 at 6:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow), verse 136 enlish translation by Marmaduke Picthall reads:

“136. Say (O Muslims): we believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ismael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto him we have surrendered.”

So Frogman, although you have made many false claims lets deal with this verse first.

Do you agree that nothing could be clearer as to where Islam stands in relation to what Jesus and Moses revealed?

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By Frogman, March 29, 2008 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

Wow. Ali,  You have either never read the Koran or are hoping that none of your readers have ever read it. The Muslims were driven out of Portugal and Spain after many years of resistance and suffering. There were thousands of forced conversions to Islam and many more where people were given the choice between dhimmi status, a position in Islamic society where Jews and Christians have no rights and must be subservient to Muslims or converting. Where forced conversion did not take place there was the infliction of Sharia, Islamic law that reduced all non Muslims to dhimmi status. The Koran quotes Allah telling the Prophet over and over again to fight the nonbelievers until they say that there is no god but Allah. The Koran tells Muslims that Allah likes fighting unbelievers better than prayers. The Koran tells Muslims that the surest way to Paradise is to die fighting unbelievers. The Koran tells Muslims that Christians and Jews are particularly evil because they have had part of the revelation are just to ignorant to accept the rest. The Koran tells Muslims not to take unbelievers as friends or associates, Oh, and Allah told the Prophet that Muslims should lie, cheat and deceive unbelievers to advance Islam. A few quotes from the Koran should further make my point. But please, read it for your self. It’s a short read, you can buy a used Penguin edition online for a few dollars and boy will reading this book open your eyes to Islam. Now some quotes. Sura 8:55, “Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve” Sura 48:29, “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are ruthless against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. My favorite, Sura 8:12, I will strike terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.” Sura 9:123, “Oh you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find you in hardness.” This is a small sample of the kind of hate for people of other religions that is taught to Muslims as the word of God in the Koran. Ali if you think that Islam has no argument with the other monotheist religions you haven’t read your Koran. Next time I’ll talk a little bit about the Hadiths. Every Christian and Jew who wants to preserve their right to follow their religion in peace must learn all that they can about Islam. You must know it for yourself. Don’t believe me and sure all hell don’t believe Ali. Take the time to study Islam for yourself. It might save your life.

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By magouche, March 29, 2008 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

Totally agree.  All fanaticism is disgusting especially when it claims to be “religious”.  We have not yet seen christian or jewish suicide bombers - that may be the criterium which will make Wilders take up the camera again.

Meanwhile blowing up abortion clinics and Palistinian property is ok apparently.  The incidental loss of lives… ah well…

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By magouche, March 29, 2008 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

I have many relatives in Holland and visit frequently.  They all agree with Wilders but they will not say so publicly.  The situation has become untenable for many with all the mosks in store fronts and the refusal of many muslims to assimilate, or even after many years, learn the dutch language or adhere to dutch law.  And this in a country, that was already “full” and has had a housing shortage since WWII.  It was a big mistake to let so many extra people (of whatever religious orientation) into this tiny country. It started with guest workers and it went completely out of control.

Oh yes, I forgot, the famous dutch “tolerance”.  Which hardly exists behind the lace curtains.  You know that and that they are paying the Turks to go home.

Here’s what Pat Condell has to say on the ever more rediculous and useless “political correctness”:


“What we should think is more important that what we do think.”

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By magouche, March 29, 2008 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

I have many relatives in Holland and visit frequently.  They all agree with Wilders but they will not say so publicly.  The situation has become untenable for many with all the mosks in store fronts and the refusal of many muslims to assimilate, or even after many years, learn the dutch language or adhere to dutch law.  And this in a country, that was already “full” and has had a housing shortage since WWII.  It was a big mistake to let so many extra people (of whatever religious orientation) into this tiny country. It started with guestworkers and it went completely out of control.

Oh yes, I forgot, the famous dutch “tolerance”.  Which hardly exists behind the lace curtains.  You know that and that they are paying the Turks to go home.

Here’s what Pat Condell has to say on the ever more rediculous and useless “political correctness”:


“What we should think is more important that what we do think.”

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By magouche, March 29, 2008 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

And your point Arnold?

http://www.science.org.au/nova/newscientist/095ns_001.htm

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By DuckPhup, March 29, 2008 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

The Islam ‘problem’ can be resolved… quickly… easily… economically… once and for all.

The simple solution for this conundrum requires only that for one whole month, every newspaper in the free world devote its front page to offensive cartoons, ridiculing Allah (peace on him) and Mohammed (peace on him, too). By the end of that time, most of Islam will have self-destructed in a paroxysm of snits, hissy-fits and terminal apoplexy.

WARNING: This will not be pretty… but the world will be a much better place for it.

Regrettably, I can’t think of a similarly uncomplicated, cost-effective and efficient stratagem for dismantling Christianity… but… (sigh)… oh well… one thing at a time. One only does what one can.

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By Ali, March 29, 2008 at 9:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Islam is a simple REAFFIRMATION OF THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST (PBUH) AND MOSES (PBUH)AND ABRAHAM (PBUH)!
This was confirmed by the Pope when he said “there is nothing new in Islam”.
Since muslims believe in Jesus and Moses there are 4 implications:
1. There is no “mission” in Islam to convert people who are already believers.
2. Islam has no “argument” with the other monotheist religions.
3. Muslims cannot retaliate in “kind” to blasphemous attacks on their Muhammad (PBUH).
4. There have been no forced conversions to Islam (had that been the case evreplace south of France would today be muslim).
700 years of muslim rule in Spain is witness to the fact that there were no forced conversions, and Jews and Christians thrived to reintroduce knowlede to europe emerging from the dark ages thanks to muslim rule in europe.
The current demonization of Islam is nothing more than a smokescreen to justify genocide in Palestine, and Iraq, and prepare the ground for further wars.
This scheme has basically been stillborn as it not so easy to implement as the new crusaders are finding out.


I find it strange that in this age of the internet there is still so much ignorance about the simple message of Islam.

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By Eso, March 29, 2008 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

Does an orthodox Christian ever wonder that all that rightthink was burned into him/her by auto da fe and his head soaked with various methods of waterbording? Didn’t I just hear on the news that the Pope stuck his fingers in the eyes or Muslims by baptizing a Muslim convert, then immediately distancing himself from the man’s views? When caught at a misdeed, children often say—even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary—“he did it” or “she started it”. So much for the Pope and various other enraptured orthodox Christians and their armies.

Incidentally, what Fomenko proved was that the star maps used in “ancient” Egyptian sarcophagi reflect star patterns in the Middle Ages and have no “ancient” correspondences.

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By Frogman, March 29, 2008 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

Eso, I don’t know how familiar you really are with Fomenko’s work, are aware that he used horoscopes as his bases for questioning recorded history? The man was demonstrable a nut. But, even if Fomenko wasn’t a nut. And even if he was a historian and not a mathematician. And even if he didn’t use the signs of the zodiac to challenge the dates of recorded history a scholar must always base their beliefs on proofs gleaned from many sources. The study of history demands an open mind, diligent work in the search for truth and humility. Oh and the ability to ascertain fact from fiction. Finally, the lands of the Eastern Mediterranean were dominantly Christian from the 3rd Century CE until they were conquered by the Muslims. Of course there were Jews in the area and the Persians were Bahai. The Arabs invaded in the late 7th century. Killing and looting until they were stopped in the late 17th Century. As I said earlier they carefully recorded the history of their conquest. They were proud of the violence that they had done. These events are well documented in Arab texts, Their own words should be proof enough . Unless, of course, you think that the Muslims colluded with the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent?

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By Eso, March 29, 2008 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

Sometimes things take a long time to play out. If you have looked at Fomenko’s version of historical events, it was the West that attacked Constantinople, a Christian city, also known as Jerusalem. In 1453, the Turks merely finished off what the Western Christians had mortally wounded, desacrated, and robbed. The Jerusalem of today was invented when the Franks then went further south to Egypt to rob the graves of prehistoric holy kings. Of course, the orthodox Jews and Christians insist that the Bible was written in prehistory, when indeed it was invented in the Middle Ages. The orthodox stick to their linear version of history, but a lot of people are beginning to see that it is largely an invention of the Roman Catholic Council of Trent (1545-1563) and the historian Scaligeri in its pay. Anyway, it was the Franks who were the first to invade the lands of the eastern Mediterranean (Antioch, etc.), and it is the West that settled the Jews in present day Israel to establish for themselves a forward base after the one in Lebanon was no longer reliable. It was done by the U.S. after France, following WW2, was similarly unreliable. Yes, a bit oversimplified on my part, but so is the accusation against the Arabs into whose pie we’re putting in our violent hand and then blame them for resisting. Wilders is clearly a political skinhead. I am sure that you can make the further necessary connection to whence its source.

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By jean claude van damme, March 29, 2008 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Geert Wilders wants to stay in power by confusing the people between freedom of speech and mudslinging.

this is not freedom of speech but this is cheap publicity stunt.
if he so wishes , why Geert cannot make a film on bogus war on terra and how many innocents have given their lives on both sides for the “chosen” few corporates.

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By Frogman, March 29, 2008 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

Eso, you jump around jumbling together thousands of years of history confusing yourself and your history. But of course, in a free country, you can make up what ever history you like, if that your goal. But you should try to keep it coherent. The vikings were barbarians. They were savages like most of their Northern European contemporaries. Like most of the people in the world at that time. But neither the vikings nor the Romans are responsible for Jihad. The cause of the trouble in the Middle East today is Islam. Shortly after Muhammad’s death in 632 CE his successors began a series of wars of conquest that ended in 1683 with the defeat of an Ottoman army at the gates of Vienna. During their expansion the Muslims invaded and conquered Egypt and much of Africa which they still occupy today. Portugal and parts of Spain which they occupied until 1492. The Islamic invasion of France failed when they were defeated at the battle of Poitiers in 1356. Islam was much more successful in Eastern Europe where they conquered most of the Balkans and weren’t forced out until after WWI. Now I wont suggest to you that these European countries were peaceful when the Muslims invaded them but they sure weren’t bothering the Muslims. The Koran compels faithful Muslims to fight against the unbelievers until they are converted or submit. The only guarantee that a faithful Muslim has of gaining Paradise is to die fighting to inflict Islamic law on the unbelievers. These are a couple of the reasons that Muslims are so aggressive. Oh, and the fact that they do not respect, tolerate or value any other religion. Most people in the world today are peace loving. The crusaders have become politically correct cultural relativists. Even the vikings have settled down and have restricted their acts of violence to making short films of Muslims killing peaceful people in the process of going about their lives. I’m a history grad. student. I’ve been studying Islam for years. If you want to find the truth you can, remember what Socrates said. Don’t push your search button, don’t read a book. Read lots of books. Read the Koran. Then read history books. If you don’t trust European history their are lots of translations of Muslim books available in most university libraries and on line. The Muslims, like the Nazis,, believed in what they were doing so they kept extensive records and were very candid about how they treated their subject people. Lastly, I don’t know how going back a thousand or more years and blaming Romans, Crusaders or vikings for Muslims killing innocent people all over the world makes any sense. Bit if it makes sense to you what about East Timor and Darfur. Did the Christians and Animist of East Timor harm the peace loving Muslims? Did the Christian people of Darfur offend the delicate sensibilities of the Muslims of the Sudan? What about Thailand. Did the Buddhists monks of Thailand, who are being killed while praying in their temples, did they do something to offend Islam. Oh, and the Philippines, did the Christian people of the Philippines threaten to invade Islamic lands? Is that why Muslims are killing innocent people there? What about the Mullakas, did the Catholic Mullakins offend Islam? Is that why Muslims killed thousands of Mullakins? The observable events of the world suggest that Muslims just can’t get along with non Muslims. And Muslims can’t keep themselves from killing people that they can’t get along with. Muslims are savages. They have been savages since they swept, as a plague, from Arabia 14 hundred years ago. The only thing that the thousands of people, all around the world, that Muslims have killed have done to offed Islam is that they exist. To Islam existing as a non-Muslim is cause enough to be dealt a brutal death.

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By Eso, March 29, 2008 at 12:00 am Link to this comment

Well, frogman, push your Search button and click Anatoly Fomenko, the guy whose book the BBC censured by refusing to take advertising that would have publicized it to a much wider audience. You can take the orthodox view, of course, which is Wilder’s view, and believe that your history teacher’s presentation of ancient Rome and all that is correct (when I was in Rome, my eyes did not persuade me to see what I have been told I should see). Fortunately, Europe is no longer the Northwest of Europe, whence the winter raids of the Vikings spread the doctrine of violence to peaceable lands. Most of Europeans think that the violence in the Middle East is due to the failure of Israel to make peace with the Palestinians and American support for Israel’s bully boy stance. It seems that certain number of the descendants of Vikings in Denmark, the Netherlands, and thereabout trying to return to the faith of Rome again and spread faith by disrespect and other forms of aggression.

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By Muscleboy, March 28, 2008 at 11:26 pm Link to this comment

Most of those protesting the cartoon defiling the Muslim’s holy prophet Mohammad were actually just regular old white skinned Danes who thought it was a damn evil thing to do especially when hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of Iraqis have been and continue to be murdered for no reason other than a greed and wickedness of the Bush administration and it’s psycho friends. I mean it’s particularly offensive when you have the USA and Israel using things like cluster bombs on civilian populations and then you create a cartoon that seems to put for the notion that the very religion of these people is violent and evil.  By any reasonable measure we are by many orders of magnitude more violent then they are .

Aside from that it has been shown that the people of the right-wing Danish paper which originally published the cartoon are best-friends and in bed with the ultra fascist Zionist Daniel Pipe who among other things has a spy group “Campus Watch” going around USA campuses and trying to shut down anything and everything that would be even slightly negative toward the image of Israel. He is directly involved with the dissemination of the cartoon which included simultaneous printing of the cartoon in papers throughout Europe virtually guaranteeing outrage on the part of Muslims.  And most average people would take the spoon fed propaganda that it was just a cartoon and didn’t justify such outrage.  This cartoon was a Zionist operation from start to finish. Similar to how they have turned the racist leanings of some in the USA against Arabs for the greater Israeli cause as they see it. But again most of those protesting it were not Muslims but white skinned people who care enough to know the truth of what is going on.

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By Lee, March 28, 2008 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment
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Radical Islamists are murdering, threatening and brutalizing innocents ... and, what’s the response?

1. For gosh sakes, don’t make waves ... it might make them even more upset!

2. Instead of standing up to this gross injustice ... let’s simply accuse the accusers of other injustices that might be happening in the world.

3. Hey, let’s divert attention from these ruthless thugs by blaming the media for reporting it.

4. Or ... how about ... while they’re trying to kill us ... let’s try to understand why these savages are so upset in the first place.

We should all give our profound thanks to people like Geert Wilders, who have the courage to stand up to barbarism in behalf of civilization.

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By Dave, March 28, 2008 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment
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The film should be shown regardless of its content.  As far as the content, it’s completely accurate.  Islam is intolerant of free speech, whereas free speech is tolerant toward Islam.  Although I disagree with Wilders with regard to banning the Qur’an (no book should ever be banned), he’s absolutely correct that the religion (as are all religions) is hostile toward democratic societies and freedoms.

He should be commended, not criticized.

And if any violence occurs as a result of this film, it PROVES HIS POINT.

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By A Beverly, March 28, 2008 at 11:40 am Link to this comment
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Muslims are outraged when confronted with their reason for action but never by their actions?

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By AnAmericaninGermany, March 28, 2008 at 9:37 am Link to this comment

This is an honest question…

Why did Muslim people take to the streets killing, burning, and destroying private property after the cartoon of Muhammed with a bomb in his turban came out, as well as calling for the death of a teacher who named a class teddybear Muhammed, yet no one sees any problem when modern day men named Muhammed commit crimes, harass non Muslim women, or basically do anything that might offend the holiness of the actual Prophet?  It seems kind of weird to me.

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By AnAmericaninGermany, March 28, 2008 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

Ì just watched the film at YouTube and found myself wondering what all the brouhaha was about. I didn’t really see anything that wasn’t theoretically true (even if a word or two were not perfectly translated).

The plain fact is that radical elements in Muslim society promote killing, death and destruction of those that oppose them and retreat to the Koran to defend their actions while the moderates stand silently by.  Wilders showed that.

The thing that made me wonder though… is when is Wilders going to release his movie about the Christians and Jews who promote killing, death and destruction of those that oppose them and retreat to the Bible and Torah to defend their actions while the moderates stand silently by? 

It seems a vicious cycle that catches most of us in the middle.

The best thing about the Wilders video however was this video response discussing the Southern Baptist Convention and other rabid American Christian groups who are quietly doing exactly the kind of thing that pisses off the imams in the first place.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ey57kAwrRJw

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By Frogman, March 28, 2008 at 9:23 am Link to this comment

Is it the people who kill innocent people who are hate mongers or the people who are outraged by the killing of innocent people who are hate mongers? I find it very telling that Muslims are very sensitive when confronted with the savage and horrors that they commit in the name of Allah and justify with passages from the Koran but they are never even a little put out by the savage Muslims who commit horrors again and again all over the world. Perhaps if Muslim voices directed a little of their outrage at their fellow Muslims who commit all of these savage acts instead of at their victims brave people like Mr Wilders wouldn’t have too.

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By Frogman, March 28, 2008 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

Is it the people who kill innocent people who are hate mongers or is it the people who are outraged by the killing of innocent people who are hate mongers? I find it very telling that Muslims are very sensitive when confronted with the savage horrors that they commit in the name of Allah and justify with passages from the Koran but they are never even a little put out by the savage Muslims who commit horrors again and again all over the world. Perhaps if Muslim voices directed a little of their outrage at their fellow Muslims who commit all of these savage acts instead of at their victims brave people like Mr Wilders wouldn’t have too.

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By frogman, March 28, 2008 at 7:17 am Link to this comment
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Pope Urban II started the 1st Crusade in France in 1076 with the intention of reclaiming Christian lands and Holy places that had been captured and looted by the Muslims a couple of hundred years before. The Crusaders of the 4th Crusade sacked Constantinople in 1204 and that was a shameful thing. The tombs of the kings of Egypt had been looted thousands of years before by Egyptians. The conquistadores came from Spain, which is in Southern Europe. The vikings came from Scandinavia which is in Northern Europe. The conquistadores left Spain seeking gold. The Crusaders, especially those of the 1st Crusade, left Europe seeking to free the Holy Land from invaders from Arabia. The only informed comparison that you can make between the Crusaders and the Conquistadores is that both traveled far from home and defeated much larger forces with courage and audacity.

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By frogman, March 28, 2008 at 6:50 am Link to this comment
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Let’s see if I have this straight. Wilders showing a film of Muslims committing beastly acts in the name of Allah makes him a rabid dog barking out hateful venom and Islamists committing thousands of savage acts, killing and butchering thousands of innocent people, all over the world, makes Islam beautiful?

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By jatihoon, March 28, 2008 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

If you take religion out of politics, it is a beutiful idea to have.

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By frogman, March 28, 2008 at 6:24 am Link to this comment
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First. Western history shows that the Crusaders’ goal was to free Christian lands from the brutality of the Muslim savages that invaded them, raped, pillaged and despoiled Christian Holy places. Second. Wilders’ film may be ugly but that is because it shows the reality of Islamic savagery. Mr Wilders did not make up the scenes of brutality that he shows in his movie, Crusaders did not commit those act of barbarism Muslims did and they used the Koran to justify them. Mr Wilders hasn’t killed anyone, he hasn’t lied about anyone he’s just held up examples of Islamic peace,love and tolerance. Why is it that Muslims are outraged when confronted with their actions but never by their actions?

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By Jim Yell, March 28, 2008 at 6:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Islam preaches it is right to kill not just the non believer but anyone who asks pointed questions about Islam. Like some fundamentalist preachers (read Huckabee)they believe only they should decide what is secular/civil law and it should conform to their religious beliefs even if a country has substantial population with different idea of intrusion of government.

Europe is now under pressure from its Islamic citizens and residents to exclude them from traditional European law and deal with them in a separate Islamic court and law. Why is it hateful not to want to see the chaos of the middle east transplanted to the liberal democracies of Europe? We have enough trouble with crazy Christians wanting to intrude there personal religious beliefs on everyone else.

Don’t buy into the idea that Islam is some how holier than thou. Islam stole their land just like the rest of the world. They do not deserve to be considered apart from the rest of the world. If they don’t like liberal democracy let them go back where they came from and take funamentalist Christians with them. They can then have each other to hate and inconvenience and hopefully the rest of us can get back to living our lives with out their vulgar intrusions.

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By Fadel Abdallah, March 28, 2008 at 4:32 am Link to this comment

Great comment Eso! Yes, it is the savage spirit of the Crusaders and the Vikings before them that’s intended to be kept alive by hate-mongers who stand to benefit materially from continued wars and conflicts. You can also call them the merchants of death.

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By Eso, March 27, 2008 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment

The crusades started from Wilder’s corner of the world. They were not to attack Islam, which according to some historians did not yet exist, but to rob Constantinople and then move on and rob the graves of kings in Egypt—just what the conquistadores did no South America. An inheritance of the Viking spirit, bored and stirring up trouble after idling all winter.

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By rowdy, March 27, 2008 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

you don’t support free speech, do you? in america opinions are news. they are also free speech. just like your comment.

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By John Hanks, March 27, 2008 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment
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There is nothing more thin skinned or block-headed than a religious Arab, Christian, or Jew.  They are all idolators.

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By WriterOnTheStorm, March 27, 2008 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

Thanks for the insight Andrea. Would you say that your reaction is typical among your friends and acquaintances? Or is the film more convincing to others? Having lived in Belgium several years ago I know that there is a considerable animosity toward “maghrebians”, but at that time, this resentment had not been aimed at Muslims in general, or at Islam as a religion. I wonder if that has changed.

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By Vince Thomas, March 27, 2008 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment
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It seems obvious that Geert has not read the Koran. If he is Christian, he is definitely not practicing his religion. Perhaps 17 minutes a day, doing just that,  may relive his “fitna” and make him a better human being.

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By Fadel Abdallah, March 27, 2008 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

Let the rabid dogs bark out their hateful venom against beautiful Islam, for clouds high in the sky will not be affected by barking dogs, as the Arabic proverb puts it.

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By Arnold Beverly, March 27, 2008 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment
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Muhammad commanded his followers to drink camel urine. The Hadith, Bukhari vol. 1 no 234. “The Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of camels and drink their milk and urine”.

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By magouche, March 27, 2008 at 7:09 pm Link to this comment

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” ~ Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics.

Here’s the link to this very scary movie:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

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By Andrea (Den Haag, NL), March 27, 2008 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Not only the Dutch government distanced itself from Wilders, the Danish premier also did it. Just google Anders Fogh Rasmussen and Wilders.

I disagree with your point about freedom of speech. I assume you don’t follow the news in Dutch but did you know that the public Dutch and Belgian TV have shown all the fragments of the film, also most of the newspapers online have the video. Fear? What fear?

FYI, any TV station would ask to see your film before airing it and Wilders-looser refused to show it to the producers beforehand. Even the Muslim public broadcaster offered to show it on their air time if Wilders was to appear afterwards in a debate and HE REFUSED. Basically they offered him a space to excercise his freedom of speech but he doesn’t like Muslims…

Now, about the film, it is a pamphlet. It tries to associate the deeds of some lunatics (who try to justify themselves with the Q’uran) with ALL the moslims. It is like saying that all Catholic priests abuse kids. I find that far fetched and paranoid.

It also is poorly done and has some blunders:
- The use of the Danish cartoon was not authorized by the cartoonist. Kurt Westergaard just called Wilders a thief in an interview on Dutch TV.
- Wilders changed some words on the verses (soerat 8, vers 60 does not say ‘terrorize’)
- The image he uses of Van Gogh’s killer is actually a Moroccan raper. Proof that xenophobes think that all Muslims look and act the same?

Just as a note, I am not a Muslim but the film really insults my intelligence: it is not about the Quran, I mean it is a huge book and the film only shows all the videos we all know from the news! Really lame.

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By Typical White Person, March 27, 2008 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

real hard,its on the main page of liveleak.com The film shows just what Islam ,or a faction of Islam does, the uproar came from the people that don’t want you to see the truth,they blow up behead burn, and mutilate men women and children in the name of their god. The film is about those people and their skewed view of religion.

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By WriterOnTheStorm, March 27, 2008 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

McCain should give Wilders a job on his campaign. “Fitna” wants to portray Islam as preparing for epic jihad, the cataclysmic battle for dominion over all peoples. This is the apocalyptic culture clash that McCain wants us all to fear.

I suspect that the fanatics calling for infidel blood in this film are employing much the same tactics as McCain - playing on the fears of ordinary people to further their own interests.

As one who fears no god half as much as I fear those who fear god, I don’t see a big difference between the Koran-oholics over there, and the bible-drunks over here. When I hear those blow-dried blowhards proclaiming America to be Christian state, the hairs stand at attention on the back of my neck.

It’s interesting to point out that neither TD nor the BBC provide a direct link to the film. And as of this writing, it appears that youtube is not posting it either. Freedom of speech suddenly feeling a bit tongue tied? Can one conclude that the fatwahs have had their intended effect? Or am I reading too much into it?

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By Rafael, March 27, 2008 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Can I ask how can opinion masquerade as news? Opinion sites should be excluded from google news.

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