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Dems to Debate Again and (Maybe) Again

Posted on Mar 13, 2008
Clinton and Obama

Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have agreed to participate in another debate, their 21st, to be held in mid-April in Philadelphia. Obama has also agreed to a 22nd debate a few days later, but the Clinton camp hasn’t yet responded.

Hopefully all the jockeying over national security issues will limit the usual 45-minute argument over a health-care mandate.

The Hill and Bary show might be a ratings winner, but they need to get some new material to chew over. This is starting to feel like a season of “Lost.”

ABC News:

Both candidates have accepted an ABC News debate in Philadelphia and Obama has accepted a similar invitation from CBS News to debate at a location to be determined in North Carolina.

The CBS News debate would be their first debate of the 2008 campaign season.

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By 1twenty1, March 16, 2008 at 9:21 am Link to this comment


It’s just another ‘dog-and-pony-show’ to keep overpaid and inconsequential pundits’ verbal sewage from backing up.

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By 1twenty1, March 16, 2008 at 9:01 am Link to this comment


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By David White, March 16, 2008 at 8:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well said!

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By amunaor, March 15, 2008 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

I agree cyrena.

The issue of ‘fear’ and the sinister method in which it is deployed by the PR, psyche-shredders, in effort to elicit a desired result needs to be challenged. ‘Fixed News’, for the last two days has been playing, the out of context, Reverend Jeremiah clip in such a frenzied, repetitious fashion, that my mind was drawn back to the similar tactic, where endless repetition of the aircraft were hammering the towers, for days on end.

Other than Obama demonstrating a necessity for reaching out to the opponent, what struck me just as deeply, stating that he intended on dismantling this predatory psychology, utilized so effectively by the dark magicians of this administration, as they struck up a resonance within the raw nerves of public xenophobic fears, which succeeded in rallying massive initial support for an illicit adventure.

No single individual is going to be able to remove the trash; expiate the ocean of innocent blood spilt, left by this White House and their cabal of self-serving ‘evil doers’.

Stirring video!

A reminder to us all, what precisely it is that we cast our vote for, at this historical crossroads. If we miss this opportunity, we will have failed in recognizing the well intentioned, philosophical individual whose moment in time, is directed not by the ego, but by the heart; whose willingness to reach out to the, often manufactured, opponent in dialog, sits in stark contrast, diametrically opposed to that of Clinton-McCain, with more of the same ‘Experience as Usual’.

Let us not offer ourselves up in sacrifice to the psychic-vampires, who seek to maintain division by stirring up xenophobic fears, inciting the mind into hatred, lending the warrior mindset, cause célèbre to spill more blood onto the ground of personal and special interests.

Might does not make right, it only breeds contempt. The corrupt U.S. foreign policy of plunder and exploitation; a decades long, festering boil, resulting in the eruption of 9/11, is not something that manifest itself in a vacuum. It needs to be vetted. Let’s not allow ourselves to be pulled deeper into this abyss of warrior madness.

This one should cheer you up – Viva Obama!

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By cyrena, March 15, 2008 at 9:02 am Link to this comment

I know you’re right zeitgeist, about all of this, and particularly the profitability of fear.

And, after taking plenty of time, many months actually, to pay careful attention to all of the candidates, I’m convinced that of those left, it either has to be Barack Obama, or we’re as well as doomed forever.

And, contrary to what the cynics suggest, I don’t expect ONE person, in the title of ‘president’ to fix it all. If that were the case, we wouldn’t still be pretending that we could get back to democracy as a form of government.

So, it is THAT which I know he can do..which is simply to get the wheels back on the thing. I don’t think he can repair the whole thing single handedly, but he can sure as hell stop the bleeding and the destruction. The others just wanna keep getting rich off of it.

I don’t know what McCain’s excuse is, so I’m gonna chalk it up to the Alzheimer’s. That too has become an epidemic, and we are so hobbled as a nation, that we have to look to every other society (except our own allegedly superior one) to find the solutions in science.

I was just thinking about that as I read the comments from purplewolf, and connected it with something one of my professors brought up the other day.

Notice how after the wars…like WWII when so much of Europe and Japan were destroyed, the rest of the world assisted them in rebuilding their countries. NOW, most of Europe is far more modern and has a far better physical infrastructure than ours. Germany is the epitome of democracy. 

Meantime…we have levees that we KNEW were failing, and would never survive a fierce storm that could be anticipated, and a government that refused to invest the money. (the corps of engineers had already determined what needed to be done, long before Katrina). But, nope. Rather, they’ve spent trillions on DESTROYING these other nations, and destroying whatever infrastructures they did have.

As much of a dictator and brutal dude as Saddam may have been, the people of that nation enjoyed a higher standard of living than most of their Arab neighbors, and in truth, a higher standard of living than what a huge portion of Americans enjoy NOW!

Iraq had professionals, and educational institutions and a strong cultural sense of itself, along with medical professionals and facilities, and all of the rest. I know much of that was hampered over the years by such vicious sanctions,(which never hurt Saddam, but did hurt the population.) Still, in the larger picture, it was a thriving society. 

That’s why the destruction all so criminal. So much destruction there AND here, so that a small but powerful group of madmen could rule the world.

Trillions of dollars supposedly spent in reconstruction of the damage that we did, even though it was really just an exercise in money laundering. Kind of like paying somebody to repair your car, when in fact there was nothing wrong with it to begin with. (but they told you it needed this that or the other thing).

So you pay them, and they use the money to actually create some damage, so that then you pay them more to fix that. And, it still isn’t fixed.

Quite an old con game operating at a level that most (including me) simply can’t wrap our brains around.

Anyway…you’re right. Obama is the only one who can at least get the tide changed, and stop the cycle of destruction. But in doing that, it presents a major threat to the operation of those who have managed the con for so long.

So, we’re seeing now, that they will do anything to protect their racket, and that’s why all of the damage currently being hurled at him.

It’s depressing, but I guess we’ll just press on. I hope there’s a way for him to articulate what’s really going on, because too many folks are still being fooled by the game.

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By purplewolf, March 14, 2008 at 11:12 pm Link to this comment

Hasn’t there been more than enough of the go nowhere debates rehashing the same thing each time and at the same time ignoring, as they say, the elephant in the room. These people campaigning need a dose of the reality of what the average American lives and deals with everyday, not some paranoid view of the imaginary enemies and threats against us all the time. Perhaps if the government would quit going all over the world looking for trouble, we would not be is the mess we are now.

Also, it’s time to put religious PERSONEL beliefs aside, it has to place in politics. To the candidates-your religion is your private business and mine is my private business, let it go at that.

And it’s time to bring our people home and concentrate on the problems we have in America. The infrastructure is in shambles, jobs drying up faster each day, health care, food, housing, heat bills, are quickly becoming a luxury only for the rich or super rich in America. Much of the housing in this country is substandard,let’s not forget the crooked insurance companies, just to start with. These are some of the problems that need to be brought out at the debates and not swept under the rug.

We need honest discussions and answers to the problems of America today, it’s time to let the other countries take care of themselves, as long as we do it for them and they don’t have to be responsible for their own countries, they will never do it. How can we keep rebuilding other countries, often time better that what we have here at home, at the expense of the survival of America and it’s people? These are the things that most Americans worry about and would like to know about in the debates. Not the underhanded mudslinging that is happening now.

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By amunaor, March 14, 2008 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment

cyrena, your very large list of concerns, I’m sure, resonate precisely with a great number of folks.

Other than Obama, I don’t see a single candidate wishing to break ranks with the ‘Experience as Usual’ crowd, in attempting to stretch out the hand in dialog. Both Clinton and McCain, belong to this same ‘good old boy cabal’, whose turbid mental faculties become stressed at such a notion, that not all cultures may wish to experience the, so called, American Dream. Therefore, from this twisted logic, arrives the necessity in maintaining a very large military by which to deliver and share these beautiful dreams, with those sub-human miscreants that need to be lulled by the application of a few fireworks.

To this mindset, all peaceful coexistence has become incomprehensible. Anyone not wishing to share such beautiful dreams must, of course, be an undemocratic terrorist. Leaders from those cultures that have bought into the dream, naturally become fearful of losing it. We, of course, provide the perfect solution in the form of very expensive, high tech, military equipment, disguised in the candy wrapper of security; the more fear can be generated; the better the business; the more lucrative the profits and the merchants of death are all happy on the golf course.

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By Maani, March 14, 2008 at 9:39 am Link to this comment


You forget:

“Both will say how all the campaign trail tactics, antics and attacks are simply “part of campaigning” and don’t really mean anything, since the Democratic Party is “unified” in its oppostition to Bush’s policies and McCain’s candidacy.”


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By DennisD, March 14, 2008 at 8:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Can’t wait for the how many angels can fit on the head of a pin finale.

The political art of using the most words to say nothing will once again be alive and well.

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By Jaded Prole, March 14, 2008 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

Watching these two “debate” their finer differences makes me want to Ralph.

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By jackpine savage, March 14, 2008 at 3:57 am Link to this comment

What can i say except, “so?”

The 21st exercise in bickering semantics will not be any different than the first twenty.  Though this time we might get to hear how much the world has changed since 9/11…as well as the brand new Democratic meme of how important being CinC is.

One candidate will tell us how when he/she is elected, he/she will take the title Generalissimo - to show the world that he/she means business - while the other candidate will say that sends the wrong message.  He/she will suggest that the President should be no more than a Field Marshall, in order to suggest a more “humble” foreign policy.

Both will do their best to make Americans think that the President is some all important position that is indispensable.  They will go on ad nauseum about all of their plans and policies; never once will they admit that those plans are sure to go awry without a large majority behind them in Congress.

Both will bemoan the state of the US economy, without ever discussing the real reasons behind the sag.  They will suggest that they have a plan to make everything all better, like kissing a boo boo.  Neither will talk about how every President since Reagan has treated the Social Security trust fund like an ATM, or that the latest GAO estimate puts the real National Debt at $53T (at least).  They’ll blather on about the high price of oil without mentioning that oil wouldn’t be that expensive if it was priced in 2002 dollars.

And both will come on stage with their little zingers that someone wrote for them, hoping for a chance to use them…he/she will smile like with self-approval, impressed that they are so witty, even though they aren’t.

They will vie for being the most banal and thoughtless, the only way to win a Menckian election in the most banal, thoughtless, and vain nation in history.

And the next day, the Greek chorus will parse even breath; decide who won and who lost; and be as split as the voters…taking sides like it was some sort of blood sport super bowl.

Many of us will be left with the same fear and loathing that we had before the big “debate”, but the candidates will see a surge in contributions and the network will have sold millions in commercial time.

It will be a grand display of blood and circus…a shiny new outfit, in which to continue scaling the heights of folly…but look real good doing it.

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By cyrena, March 14, 2008 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

“...Hopefully all the jockeying over national security issues will limit the usual 45-minute argument over a health-care mandate….”

I agree that they need some new material, but a whole lot of what is addressed in these debates depends as much on what the moderators ask them, (and how they ask it) as it does to do with what the candidates wish to address.

Now I PERSONALLY hope that all of the jockeying over national security will NOT happen. I’m sick of the GOP and Hillary defining the parameters of the discourse in terms of this myth of national security alarms. If we can ever get the current TERRORIST ORGANIZATION out of the WHITE HOUSE, and out of the CIA, and out of the government period, THAT will take care 90% of our national security concerns.

The rest, the real but still undefined risks associated with global terror organizations can then be appropriately managed. But, we are truly sick and tired of the NS scare tactics, and all of the wasted time, energy and money being used to distract our attention from the things that REALLY threaten our national security.

For instance, this busted out economy, the busted out human infrastructure, and the busted out physical infrastructure, and a system of government that is nothing short of a totalitarian dictatorial regime that has brought everything to a grinding halt, putting (the now mythical superpower) at the periphery of the universe, no better off than the 4th world countries of the planet.

And, we don’t need to hear anymore about the health care madate either. Hillary has no way of providing health care for anyone who doesn’t have a job or income to pay for health insurance, so the mandate is bullshit. She can’t enforce it. ‘Affordable’ health care isn’t ‘affordable’ if a person can’t even buy food. Employer assisted? Great if one has an employer. How is she gonna cover all of these homeless people with a health care insurance mandate?
Please…let’s get on…

What about this war on Iraq that’s destroying us along with other portions of the world? Gonna talk about that?

How about all of this defense spending? We can’t eat those bombs or other munitions, so why the hell are we spending so much money to have the means to destroy the world? It would cost 1/100th the amount to prepare a strong DEFENSE military, and keep them here to DEFEND us, instead of traipsing all over the planet looking for nations and resources to destroy and plunder.

How about the rule of law, and democracy, and the Constitution and all of THAT good stuff? Anyway we might get some of THAT restored?

Yeah, they need some new material, and I hope at least ONE of these candidates demands it from whomever is moderating and controlling the nature of the discourse. Another round with Timmy Russert and I can’t even be bothered watching.

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