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Ear to the Ground

Waterboarding, ‘Harsh’ Techniques OK by Bush

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Posted on Mar 8, 2008
waterboarding protest
AP photo / Manuel Balce Ceneta

Active demonstration: Protesters, using volunteer Maboud Ebrahim Zadeh, stage a public display of waterboarding in front of the Justice Department in Washington, D.C., last November.

The reputation of the U.S. on the world stage might be further colored by President Bush’s veto of a bill that would have limited the CIA’s (and other intelligence agencies’) array of interrogation techniques to those in the Army field manual. In defending Saturday’s veto, Bush once again invoked 9/11.


The New York Times:

“The fact that we have not been attacked over the past six and a half years is not a matter of chance,” Mr. Bush said in his radio remarks, echoing comments he made Thursday at a ceremony marking the fifth anniversary of the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. “We have no higher responsibility than stopping terrorist attacks,” he added. “And this is no time for Congress to abandon practices that have a proven track record of keeping America safe.”

The bill Mr. Bush vetoed would have limited all American interrogators to techniques allowed in the Army field manual on interrogation, which prohibits physical force against prisoners.

The debate has left the C.I.A. at odds with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and other agencies, whose officials have testified that harsh interrogation methods are either unnecessary or counterproductive. The agency’s director, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, issued a statement to employees after Mr. Bush’s veto defending the program as legal, saying that the Army field manual did not “exhaust the universe of lawful interrogation techniques.”

Democrats, who supported the legislation as part of a larger bill that authorized a vast array of intelligence programs, criticized the veto sharply, but they do not have the votes to override it.

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By SoccerGuy, March 10, 2008 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

While I still believe in America, It is people like you who make me wonder if the USA is still a great country.

You try to pull off patriotism but you just can’t quite do it.  You just believe everything your are told and turn around and spout it off like it was your idea.

We were once a great nation and respected for it. We have fallen quite a ways these past 8 years and if we do not find a way to re-claim our status we will fall, just like all other great nations in history.

Sure people want into America, but ask yourself, who is trying to get in is it the cream of the crop of other nations?  Me thinks we are importing the rif-raf and the other countries are exporting the rif-raf to us knowing we will gladly accept them.

You can not use 9/11 excuse forever as bush and cheney do to justify just about every action.  Eventually people.(apparently not you) get wise to the fact that 9/11 is just a tool to advance the aggressive posture of America, nothing more. 

As long as we are at war bush and cheney can push through virtually anything they want and claim “we are at war”  “be patriotic”….. and the lemmings like you just keep lining up.

Our brave men and women are dying in the sand for nothing.  I know, I know, everyone hates to speak the truth as it is usually twisted into, “one not supporting the troops” but they truly are just political pawns fighting for oil, or whatever else bush and cheney team can think up. 

If we stay we loose, if we leave we loose if anyone questions either scenario they are unpatriotic and weak….(do you see the beauty of the bush cheney plan?) a never ending war is good for certain people and businesses.

I would gladly pay $10/gallon for oil before I would sacrifice one more American fighting in an endless war game bush cheny and Rove dreamed up.

PS:  In case you were wondering, one can support the troops but not support how they are being mislead, misused and treated like second class citizens when they return.

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By steve, March 10, 2008 at 8:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Exactly right Mr. Billis.  The Bush Administration has now practically broken the armed forces by deploying and redeploying the same soldiers and marines to the Middle East over and over again.  Much like the Soviets before us, we have spent ourselves broke to a point our economy can no longer sustain.  We are running out of allies and find ourselves isolated in the world.  These are the reasons we have not been attacked.  We are destroying our own country from within.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 10, 2008 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

If humbleness/timidity were qualities of the collective character of the USA, the bald eagle and its formidable talons probably wouldn’t be one of our revered symbols.  The eagle is, after all, a bird of prey, interestingly, brought back from possible extinction.  Let’s see if the same can happen for the USA.

Doug, I think you’re right on.  Our country doesn’t want to get it.

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By Stephen Smoliar, March 10, 2008 at 7:48 am Link to this comment

There is probably a complementary relationship here.  If, as you have enumerated, Al Qaeda has everything it wants, then is not the same true of Bush and the neoconservative thugs he supports?  After all, fear is the ultimate enforcer of authority.  In this case it has empowered authority to such an extent that fundamental federal principles (as embodied in the Constitution) and international principles (such as the Geneva Convention) have been unraveled to an unprecedented extent.  As the provider of the fundamental “fear factor,” Al Qaeda has served the current Administration very well.

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By Margaret Currey, March 10, 2008 at 4:25 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If this president was doing his job about security, soneone knew that people were coming into the unided states (false Passports) to lern how to fly, but was not interested in learning how to land, Fla. told officials about this, Clinton told Bush to be watchful, the only thing that Bush/Chaney were interested in is how do we wage war, well I think they just let the 9/11 incident happen.

Then since all the government branches were in control of the Repthugublicians they changed the law, now these laws if kept in place and are used by another Bush/Chaney thug there goes our democracy, not all democracies are going to do the right thing.

Hitler was in a country that had a so called democracy, but he changed it real quick into a Dictatorship.

Make Congress a rubber stamp and put a president in charge of making his own laws and vetoing any law he does not like, his sighning statements are crazy.

And then this president tells us that congress is not doing its job, it looks like everyting they do is either comromised or vetoed.

Shame he cannot just leave or a bigger shame no one wants to make him leave office early.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 10, 2008 at 3:37 am Link to this comment

Its simply TRUTH, Maani. But it takes some courage, faith, fortitude and BRAVERY to admit it all, think it through - and then speak out about it, uhh.

I hope others will take up the message as it is most uregent NOW!!!

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By Thomas Billis, March 9, 2008 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

We have not been attacked for 6 1/2 years because the Bush administration has given Al Qaida everything it wants.No problem recruting.No problem reconstituting in Pakistan.We have given them hope they will be able to take over an oil rich arab country.George W Moron is reading out of the Al Qaida playbook.You can count all the friends we are making in the world while we continue to torture and detain Arabs in Guantanamo on the fingers of one of our armless returning veterans.George Bush said that next year he will be in Crawford with his feet up.If there was justice in the world he would be in the Hague on trial for war crimes.

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By guntotinganglion, March 9, 2008 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Excellent post Douglas.

I would add only one thought. That is, I have heard it said so many times, that the troops believe that their mission is an honorable one. That may well be true for the vast majority of them, but that doesn’t make it an honorable mission. As I like to say, they may have gone with honor, but they weren’t necessarily SENT with honor.

This disconnect has been taken advantage of by politicians like McCain over and over again, as if it’s a statement of fact that all of this is honorable, if the troops believe it to be. They are grunts, they do as their told, they do their duty, as they see it, and as they are proscribed to do it.

But, those who sent them have not one atom of honor amongst the lot. They are a pack of criminals who have dishonored the troops at every step. They’ve turned many a good man and woman, who thought they were being honorable, into murderers.

I say this in reference to the first time I heard about young soldiers “lighting up a target” that was approaching a check point on the airport road (I think it was) outside of Baghdad. When those young soldiers, who thought their mission honorable, opened the doors to the bullet riddled automobile they’d just destroyed, the shattered bodies of an entire family of innocent Iraqi’s fell out. They were unarmed, and the incident was a total mistake. It was too late to feel sorry for the dead, but I was horrified to consider, at 19 or 20, thinking only good thoughts about your mission, what seeing the parts of an infant, spilling out on the ground in front of them, would do to them. They became part of the tragedy when this happened, and their lives were transformed FOREVER! They could never be the same.

Multiply this times a hundred thousand, and you see only a small part of the overall effect of this “war on terror”. The real criminals, the real terrorists, are the ones who fabricated this evisceration of an entire country, out of whole lies, not cloth! They are the ones who should be brought justice, and face the full penalties that law allows.

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By Maani, March 9, 2008 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment

Doug:

“The simple answer is that ‘No, you are not!’ [fighting a war on terror.] American G.I.’s are NOT fighting for you - or dying for you - and certainly not for your freedom - even though they may have offered to do so and certainly would. This is not WW2 and your country is not at risk from anyone except those within.  Your government is expending personnel and equipment and resources to feed the maw of the industrial complex which employs you. It has arranged to do so by creating an imaginary enemy and even going to the extent of indirectly funding it…Your FREEDOM has been cleverly taken from you - not by Osama bin Laden…or by any terrorist or Islamic group or any government except your own.”

Bravo!  Nicely put.

“The USA is NOT “One Nation Under God” and never has been. it was founded on the blood and suffering of a deprived race of people. It was built up by enslaving another race of people.”

Bravo again!  Too often we forget that it was WE who engaged in the first true attempted genocide in history when we killed off virtually an entire indigenous people (most estimates put it between 30 and 50 million), and then enslaved another group (some estimates suggest that as many as 80 million died in the slave ships, or were enslaved and died later).

You’re on a roll!

Peace.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 9, 2008 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

By Gomerspile, March 9: “Are we fighting a war on terror or aren’t we…”

The simple answer is that ‘No, you are not!’  American G.I.‘s are NOT fighting for you - or dying for you - and certainly not for your freedom - even though they may have offered to do so and certainly would. This is not WW2 and your country is not at risk from anyone except those within.

Your government is expending personnel and equipment and resources to feed the maw of the industrial complex which employs you. It has arranged to do so by creating an imaginary enemy and even going to the extent of indirectly funding it. It deprives your weak and ill to do so.

Your FREEDOM has been cleverly taken from you - not by Osama bin Laden who died in 2001 or by any terrorist or Islamic group or any government except your own. The people in New Orleans know it but you are blind to this lesson. The people who were attacked in LA’s MacArthur Park know it too.

Jesus didn’t die for you and America wasn’t even thought of 2,000 years ago.  Actually, we are told he died to help save us ALL from our sins (bad karma). That includes all those Moslems and even those who murdered him - the Jews and the Romans who eventually became Catholics.

The USA is NOT “One Nation Under God” and never has been. it was founded on the blood and suffering of a deprived race of people. It was built up by enslaving another race of people. So-called Christian Americans are now funding the murder and suffering of Christians and Moslems in Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq and Afgahanistan.

Unlike China or Russia, the USA has no hostile countries on its borders or off its shores. In fact, it is the USA which has initiated hostilities towards its non-Anglo neighbors as well as towards Asian countries since the 1800’s. As soon as the USA had its own ships to sail, it sought to dominate and exploit countries across the seas. It is still doing so.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 9, 2008 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

I’m afraid I have to agree with RAE on this one.  Water-boarding has become somewhat of a mantra of the left. 

We have to move on now, to the highly pressing isues facing our country’s citizens and our constitution.

Water-boarding is, and always pretty small in the grand scheme of things, and shame on us for once again allowing the masterful Bush to distract us from issues of overwhelming importance.

You all must certainly see that he can’t handle domestic issues and that’s why he continually distract us. Same can be said for Congress.  Worse yet, we oblige him and that really pisses me off.

My heartfelt apologies to, for example, the Katrina victims to whom FEMA sent trailers (only after outrage by fellow Americans) built using known toxins.

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By Maani, March 9, 2008 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

RAE:

“‘We have no higher responsibility than stopping terrorist attacks,’ he (G W Bush) added.’ As nasty as a ‘terrorist attack’ can be, I disagree with the President’s conclusion.”

I do to, but for a different reason.  Here is the presidential oath, taken on inauguration day:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

There it is: the “first priority” of the president is to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”  It cannot be any more clear than that.

Peace.

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By Stephen Smoliar, March 9, 2008 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

To emphasize this point as a patriotic stance, we would do well to recall the FOUR FREEDOMS paintings that Norman Rockwell composed in the midst of the Second World War.  The painting I particularly have in mind is “Freedom from Fear.”  We now live under an administration that has enslaved the population to fear.  When we remember why our armed forces mobilized for the Second World War, it makes our current military exploits seem tragically ludicrous.

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By joey, March 9, 2008 at 10:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Bush Legacy
When a person stands on the steps of the capitol raises his right hand and swears publicly to uphold
and defend the Constitution of the United States of America twice. Just what is he doing?
Is the constitution that hard to understand , is it badly written?.  Is every lawyer in the nation
unable to read or hear?  Is every law school trembling with fear. How could one person destroy
the justice department , disregard the constitution and make torture legal. To let this person walk is to destroy the constitution itself

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By RAE, March 9, 2008 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

“We have no higher responsibility than stopping terrorist attacks,” he (G W Bush) added.”

As nasty as a “terrorist attack” can be, I disagree with the President’s conclusion.

Lessee, over the past decade or two, how many Americans have died in terrorist attacks? 5,000 - 10,000? More? Less?

Lessee, over the past decade or two, how many innocent, law-abiding Americans have died from TOBACCO, AIDS, LACK OF HEALTH CARE, AUTOMOBILE “ACCIDENTS,” GUNSHOT WOUNDS DURING ACTS OF CRIME? Need I go on?

It is crystal clear to me that there are FAR MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES WAITING TO BE DEALT WITH IN THE USA THAN PREVENTING TERRORIST ATTACKS.

It is also crystal clear to me than none of them is as “sexy” or profitable to those “in the loop” as is the “War on Terror.” I submit that G. W. Bush & friends are all “in the loop.”

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By Maani, March 9, 2008 at 9:41 am Link to this comment

Steve:

There is another possible explanation for why we have “not been attacked over the past six and a half years”: the first “attack” was nothing of the sort, but rather a false flag operation planned and executed by Cheney & Co. using former CIA assets (including OBL and Atta).  Indeed, two things about suggesting that 9/11 was a “foreign” attack stretch credibility.

First, on the one hand we are supposed to believe that our intelligence and military apparatuses were so inept and incompetent that they “didn’t know” of the attack AT ALL; and yet on the other hand we are supposed to believe that our intelligence and military apparatuses are SO competent that they have prevented “another” attack for over six years.  Balderdash.

Second, and perhaps more importantly, we are supposed to believe that 9/11 was simply a “happy coincidence” for the neocons to be able to ram their ultra-right wing agenda down our throats in the form of the Patriot Act, the Department of Homeland Security, the never-ending “war on terror” (and its concomitant government and corporate-controlled media propaganda campaign to create the “climate of fear” that allows greater control of the populace), the evisceration of habeus corpus and posse comitatus, and increased law enforcement and surveillance of American citizens, among other things.  Poppycock.

9/11 was an “inside job.”  And the fact that the government’s primary “supporting evidence” for its “official story” re 9/11 - The 9/11 Commission Report - not only contains serious errors and omissions as well as numerous conflicts of interest among the commissioners, but continues to be undermined by ongoing revelations from numerous sources - including co-chairs Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton, as well as the FBI - shows that the government’s whitewash is rapidly falling apart, while the evidence for alternative theories grows in comparison.

Peace.

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By Bill Blackolive, March 9, 2008 at 9:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

See patriotsquestion9/11, torture is not to get information but to add terror…torture and 9/11 coverup are (drug induced) scheme of corporate maggots to own the globe.  Terrified maggots or politicians who got left out of the fold can be found at patriotsquestion9/11.

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By VillageElder, March 9, 2008 at 8:44 am Link to this comment

Robert Giacobbe,

“Long ago I stopped being amazed by how incompetent, foolish, and immoral our president is.”

cyrena,

“This is the foundation of most International Law, and what makes it work.”

Thanks to both of you for the literate and thoughtful commentary.

Bush’s endorsement of torture can only further embarrass us, damaging our reputation again.  Embracing a horrific policy can only make sense in a deluded barbarian’s stone age world.

Some forty plus years ago I was on active service.  We were all given 10 General Orders which were the basis for our “military conduct”.  As I recall we were required to follow the Geneva Convention and to not follow any unlawful orders.  The rejection of torture is not new.  These neo-cons have regressed into the dark ages with such modern concepts as the divine right of leaders, using the techniques of the Inquisition and consulting deities.

I hope I live long enough to see democracy and some rationality return to this country.

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By troublesum, March 9, 2008 at 7:45 am Link to this comment

Bush may have personally performed some of these torture techniques on the victims on some of those surprise visits to Iraq.

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By Jim Yell, March 9, 2008 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We have held many of, probably most of the so called terrorist in prisons all over the world for years and yet most have never been investigated and sorted out from who is actually a terrorist and those who were defending their own countries, or just innocent by standers in their own countries and homes. There is no clear facts showing that those tortured by Bush/Cheney are present dangers, or have ever been a danger to the US.

It is well documented that there is no reason to believe that Bush/Cheney did not know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and as time passes it becomes clearer that our Petroleum President and Vice-President must have had a motive of controling or owning Iraqi oil, beyond the apparent need to distract the country from the real culprits the Saudi Moslems, their personal friends and business associates.

We are now paying the price and the profits are being collected by Bush/Cheney, how convenient for them. If there has ever been treason in this country it has been generated by this administration.

Further once more I should like to remind those people who still want to believe that Bush/Cheney have protected us by instituting formation of extra legal organizations, which in the future will give basic foundation for a dictatorship in this country, are ignoring the fact that good old intellegence investigation had the facts that should have led to blocking the 9/11 attack, except high officials blocked the use of the information as it was politically inconvenient for their needs and the Republicans were too focused on gutting the treasury to pay attention to their responsibilities. A pox on all of them.

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By Jim Yell, March 9, 2008 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We have held many of, probably most of the so called terrorist in prisons all over the world for years and yet most have never been investigated and sorted out from who is actually a terrorist and those who were defending their own countries, or just innocent by standers in their own countries and homes. There is no clear facts showing that those tortured by Bush/Cheney are present dangers, or have ever been a danger to the US.

It is well documented that there is no reason to believe that Bush/Cheney did not know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and as time passes it becomes clearer that our Petroleum President and Vice-President must have had a motive of controling or owning Iraqi oil, beyond the apparent need to distract the country from the real culprits the Saudi Moslems, their personal friends and business associates.

We are now paying the price and the profits are being collected by Bush/Cheney, how convenient for them. If there has ever been treason in this country it has been generated by this administration.

Further once more I should like to remind those people who still want to believe that Bush/Cheney have protected us by instituting formation of extra legal organizations, which in the future will give basic foundation for a dictatorship in this country, are ignoring the fact that good old intellegence investigation had the facts that should have led to blocking the 9/11 attack, except high officials blocked the use of the information as it was politically inconvenient for their needs and the Republicans were too focused on gutting the treasury to pay attention to their responsibilities. A pox on all of them.

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By troublesum, March 9, 2008 at 7:32 am Link to this comment

Bush knows that torture doesn’t work but that has nothing to do with why he does it.  He used to torture animals as a kid.  Videos were made of prisoners being tortured at Guantanamo and in Iraq probably so he could watch them.  It may be a psycho-sexual thing for him.  He probably jerks off thinking about men being tortured.

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By cyrena, March 9, 2008 at 3:35 am Link to this comment

Amen!! None exists, and torture NEVER works.

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By guntotinganglion, March 8, 2008 at 11:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This insanity will someday end, for better or for worse. That said, I can only fantasize about the punishment this man should be exposed to for his ongoing, relentless, unapologetic crimes against humanity. I do NOT favor the death penalty, which is kinda sad, because it would be so appropriate for a man who so dearly loved signing death penalty paperwork in Texas (and I believe once as Head Fed). No, the death penalty is too good, too quick.

What this monster deserves, is a cell, with all the comforts afforded by the Federal Penal system, with three special addition. His cell should have embedded within all three walls, flat panel, high definition tv’s, that run a slide show 24/7. And that slide show should show the faces and body parts of ALL of the victims (for which there are photographs) of his warmongering, war profiteering and torture related crimes.

This should be considered a kindness. It is my belief that the Christian claim that forgiveness for ones crimes comes at the end of life only with true repentance, requires you know the names and faces of those you have tortured and killed. This punishment would afford him the opportunity (an opportunity he has refused as President), and the time required to get to know the countless names, face and body parts (when only bits are available due to blast decimation) of those who’s deaths he has been directly responsible for. Innocent men, women, boys, girls, infants and the unborn, that have been eviscerated and dispatched by the “War President”.

No death penalty. Make the punishment suit the crime. Demand justice. Let him spend the rest of his life memorizing the names and faces he’ll need to list, to make that critical petition for repentance for his crimes. At that moment, when he feels his life slipping away after years of memorization, perhaps he will be contrite, and ask true forgiveness of a god he has claimed he believe in? Then it will be time to see if god has the patience to wait the years it will take to speak the million plus names he’s been responsible for killing.

IMPEACHMENT NOW
SENATE TRIAL
JAIL TO THE CHIEF (and, with apologies to native americans, all his little indians)

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By cyrena, March 8, 2008 at 9:13 pm Link to this comment

•  “Anyone who has a loved one in the armed forces, CIA, or diplomatic corps that is in a danger zone should be furious at this, understanding that the capture of that loved one will most assuredly result in horrific torture and death. “

This is the foundation of most International Law, and what makes it work. RECIPROCITY.

And, it’s not just about those who might have loved ones in service in these particular capacities, (diplomatic forces, CIA, armed forces) and in specifically designated ‘danger zones’. It’s about EVERY ONE of us now, and in the future.

The Convention Against Torture is UNIVERSAL, and it dates back to 1975. There are multiple other UNIVERSAL Conventions and Treaties upon which THAT is founded.

Here’s the intro:

Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment,
New York, 10 December 1984

•  ““Recalling the Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Being Subjected to Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 3452 (XXX) of 9 December 1975,…”

More importantly, the objectives and KEY PROVISIONS
•  Objectives
 
              “Torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment are particularly serious violations of human rights and, as such, are strictly condemned by international law. Based upon the recognition that such practices are outlawed, the Convention strengthens the existing prohibition by a number of supporting measures…”.

Key Provisions
 
•  The prohibition against torture is absolute and, according to the Convention, no exceptional circumstances whatsoever, including state of emergency or war or an order from a public authority may be invoked as a justification of torture.

NOTE: the prohibition is ABSOLUTE

•  “Torture” is defined as:
 
“... any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.”

http://www.un.org/millennium/law/iv-9.htm
 
My point in all of this is just to re-affirm how this is not more or less important to any one particular individual, group, or location. This is a UNIVERSAL Law, based on the highest priority of Universal agreements. Torture will NOT be done to ANYONE, for ANY REASON, under ANY circumstances.

I disagree Robert though, that we have sunk to the level of the ‘terrorists’, since you don’t name them here. In reality, we don’t KNOW what the ‘terrorists’ have done in respect to engaging in torture. We know that they’ve engaged in asymmetrical warfare in Iraq, and in Afghanistan, but we don’t know what the ‘terrorists’ have done in terms of torture, unless we correctly identify the ‘terrorists’ as the Bush Administration and the CIA, and if we want to go further down the chain of command…the US armed forces that have perpetrated the same in the prisons at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and other locations.

In other words, there are no ‘al-Qaeda’ or other identified ‘terrorists’ that we can specifically name as having engaged in torture against any American member of the military or other agency.

This of course, is what makes Dick Bush all the more heinous. It is the US only at this point, who is blatantly in violation of these Universal Crimes Against Humanity. Oops, almost forgot Israel and the IDF. Them too.

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By RAE, March 8, 2008 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

“Waterboarding, ‘Harsh’ Techniques OK by Bush”

May they use them on HIM on the runup to his trial for crimes against almost everything and everybody.

I hope they video the sessions and make them into a mini-series!

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By Stephen Smoliar, March 8, 2008 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

Horrifying as it may sound, Bush was probably right when he told his radio audience, “The fact that we have not been attacked over the past six and a half years is not a matter of chance.”  My guess is that we have some pretty sharp minds in our community of intelligence analysts (however many of them have not yet been purged from the system under an ideology that prefers agents to analysts), dedicated to developing causal models for terrorist activities.  So they, too, agree that such activities are “not a matter of chance.”  However, the leap from that assertion to the claim that the causal factor was the use of torture as an interrogation technique is filled with the sorts of holes that a B-level undergraduate student of logic could easily detect;  but then no one has ever accused our President of being “a B-level undergraduate student of logic!”

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