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Clinton Holds the Line

Posted on Mar 4, 2008
Obama and Clinton

Hillary Clinton scored major victories Tuesday with three projected wins, including Ohio and Texas, which had been described by her campaign as must-win states. Barack Obama won the Vermont primary and kept it close in Texas.

Their speeches Tuesday night said everything. For the first time in weeks, Clinton got to talk like a winner and mean it. At the same time, Obama confidently asserted his lead in delegates, which is likely to remain.

The sometimes disorienting seesaw of cable news commentary has tilted once again toward Clinton, and to be sure it was a big night for her. But there are caveats.

For one, the math is still against her. That, of course, could change, but the next contest, in Wyoming, is a caucus, which should work to Obama’s advantage, and then it’s on to Mississippi, where he is expected to do well.

But the big prize and the next major battleground will be Pennsylvania. Clinton could do very well there, and will probably try to make what amounts to a closing argument for her candidacy.

Expect to hear a lot about big states as the campaign works its way toward them. Clinton has won more of those than Obama, and will argue that they are key to a Democratic victory in the general election.

Expect also to see more negative campaigning. It cannot be denied that Clinton’s “kitchen sink” offensive had an effect. Obama dropped precipitously in the polls as last-minute attack ads ranging in topic from NAFTA to national security rained down on Texas and Ohio.

Clinton is likely to stick with what works, but that could be a mistake. This was the only time in the campaign that going negative worked for her. And the “red phone” ad that has gotten so much attention, Republicans have pointed out, would sound better if it came from John McCain.

Speaking of whom: McCain has officially secured his party’s nomination, which means he’s free to campaign against the Democrats, who still have to campaign against each other. Until now, he has focused mainly on front-runner Obama, but he could aim his fire at Clinton, and will if she impresses too much. That might actually suit her better, as it gives her a target who is not beloved by her party.

Such a development would hurt Obama’s ability to lump McCain and Clinton together, which he attempted to do in his speech Tuesday night.

There is a major hurdle, though, that Clinton will have to face sooner or later as April approaches. Despite her campaign’s protestations, Clinton has repeatedly stalled on the release of her tax returns and her White House schedule. It seems obvious at this point that there is some piece of information in those documents that is embarrassing to her—enough to get her to recant on a pledge, as she did last week. Either that, or it is the most ingenious of political diversions.

Polls have shown that Democrats love their candidates and don’t want them to drop out of the race. America, it seems, doesn’t want the Clinton-Obama show to end. On Tuesday, it got its wish.


Sen. Hillary Clinton got her campaign back on track with projected wins in the Texas, Ohio and Rhode Island primaries.

Delegate-rich Texas and Ohio were considered must-wins for her campaign.

Obama had won 12 straight contests since Super Tuesday on February 5.
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By Douglas Chalmers, March 8, 2008 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

”... I tried to post this below but kept getting errors…”

I’ve noticed that posting IS a problem form time to time and that “Comment Title:” doesn’t always work either. It seems to be a problem with IE7 as well as other browsers….... and sometime snot all posts appear when a page is opened until you use the “comments” function at the top of the blog to rearrange thins a couple of times, uhh. Really lousy software application you have, TruthDig!!!

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By dorkus wafflebrain, March 6, 2008 at 3:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

FOOL, According to all the Obama backers none of you have any class IF WHAT I read on these pages is any indication.  The election has turned a corner and Barak went home with his tail between his legs.  Now He’s getting all this press from the Rezko deal and the canadian deal in which he blatanly lied.
Don’t bother to answer me as I will not be staying here long enough to read it. From all the posts I can see I will be called in sane, know nothing, there will be no civilized posts.  TRUTHDIG IS NOT

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By bert, March 6, 2008 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Your figures for percentage of blacks in U.S. is correct. And even if ALL blacks voted and voted for Ibama it is not enough to win a General.

Same if you add in all educated white Democrats who suppory Obama.

These two groups would not provide Obama with a win in the General.

He has been able to win caucuses and primaries because of the huge number of crossover Republicans and Independents.

And I know you and other Obama supporters sincerely believe that Obama will keep these folks and even pick up more. But history has shown us that is not the case. History is not on your side. Some of those red states that Obama has won in the dem primary season will never tack left in a General. And with the Supreme Court the most important issue before the country this elction, I don’t want to take a chance.

Hillary has been getting crossover votes from Republicans and Independents too. Just like Obama. But just not as many as Obama. [Although she did pick up more in Texas this time because of Rush Limbaugh’s little trick.]

I was looking to see if Obama could increase his support in other categories this past Tuesday, especially in Ohio and Texas, betond blacks, educated white, and Reps and Ind.

If Obama could have I would have considered switiching to him. But he did not.

Hillary has been getting a majority of Hispanic votes. For some reason Obama has not been able to increase his appeal with that voting bloc. And I don’t understand why.

And there are more white Dems than just educated ones. To name a few there are blue collar and the poor. Hillary is doing better there too.

The three groups Obama has been winning with is not a large enough base (as you accurately said) to win next November. And to date he has not shown any ability to move much further than those three groups. And those groups are simply not large enough to win in the General.

I just want a Dem choosing the next one, two, possibly three Supremes. Any Dem is better than McCain or any Republican. So I am supporting somone who can win.

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By Leefeller, March 6, 2008 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment

Mike, I tried to post this below but kept getting errors.  Anyway well said. The war is the biggest snake oil job the world has ever seen, at least to my knowledge.

If one looks at Hillary with all the experience she keeps touting, she still was not even smart enough to see through Bush’s lies to go into Iraq, even I saw the bull shit on the wall.  On the other hand she knew it was a lie and she supported the Bush agenda and did not care.  Oh well now that we are there we have to stay.
Making experienced decisions like going to war in Iraq does give cause for Hillary to be sleeping with the red phone in me book.

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By Crazy Old Lady, March 6, 2008 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment
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Hillary is giving the rest of us a bad name. Clintons will say, do, cause any mischief to get themselves elected, regardless of the harm it does to the rest of the country. This here nutty hag, me, will vote McCain.

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By waxman, March 6, 2008 at 11:53 am Link to this comment


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By Aegrus, March 6, 2008 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

Well, I think it is a mistake to call a politician out for being extremely ambitious, Mike. It’s kind of a character trait all politicians share. Otherwise, I agree the war is the biggest issue, and this idea “Clinton Holds the Line” is a fluke win from a rusty campaign.

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By THE YOUNG ARE HERE, March 6, 2008 at 8:59 am Link to this comment

Thanks cyrena for backing my post up that was great.  And you threw up a very good point! He did when 13 states and like ya said he could not have done that without votes from ever demographic which he is getting.  So lets keep the movement going forward!!!

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By Aegrus, March 6, 2008 at 8:38 am Link to this comment

Well, lib, I certainly wont miss your hateful babble. Odin be praised for your leaving.

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By Leefeller, March 6, 2008 at 8:33 am Link to this comment

Well now that someone has taken their bigotry and gone home.  Like an open puss filled wound lancing is a nice option.  Hate seems to be fuel for something, but not wisdom.  Some people love to hate, has something to do with self loathing or drugs. Sad the world is so small.

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By Aegrus, March 6, 2008 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

Hey, you can sink to the level of neo-conservatives. Fine. The reality is saying you never trust republicans is like saying you never trust (insert group). There are many people registered as Republican who are perfectly rational and are not neo-conservatives. Acting like it is naive to forgive and trust people who have every reason to be disenchanted with Republican/Neo-Conservative ideology is irrational psycho-babble and more hate mongering.

Like I said before, even counting Florida and Michigan Democratic voters, Hillary has a very marginal amount of votes more from registered Democrats. Maybe you should strengthen your character by boldly being non-discriminatory regarding who can support a candidate.

We’re Americans, not Democrats and Republicans. We are AMERICANS not Latinos, Blacks, Asians and Whites. We are AMERICANS, not Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu.

We are Americans, and AMERICANS are supporting Barack Obama. Deal with it.

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By lib in texas, March 6, 2008 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

Yea, cyrena blacks and uneducated college students.  In our caucus Tuesday night, 95 % of Obama backers were black.  That was a fact.  Most college students first 2 years don’t amount to much, its party time and they are greatly influenced by causes.  “I live in a college town and have 3 Grand Children in college at the moment. Fact, Obama is biracial.
Cyrena you and some others on Truthdig are babbling idiots, facts or truth be damned.  You love to call other people stupid, mentally deficient, and a lot of other shit, but you are rude, mentally incapable of posting something sensible.  You are the one so full of hate it spews out in every word you type
but you are the POT calling the KETTLE BLACK.  “play on words ha” Thank God you have no children to pass on this twisted Gene.  Take care of your prison Cyrena” and for your health you need to stop drinking so much” as I am out of TRUTHDIG as there is no truths here just psychobabble.  Will miss your posts Maani and Doug Chalmers.  Your post are intelligent truthful and interesting.

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By bert, March 6, 2008 at 7:25 am Link to this comment

Cyrena - Your psycho-babble is just that. These articles I cite are using past elections as predictors. Maybe these trends will be different this year. But I never trust Republican voters. Evidently you believe this is truly a new day - the dawning of Aquarious or something. I don’t. Things seldom change that fast and our Founding Fathers intentionally created a system of governemnt that operates slowly.

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By Aegrus, March 6, 2008 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

I think you really hit a nerve, Cyrena. I hadn’t looked at the situation in the way where many Dems are hesitant to accept any Republican support for a candidate. It is somewhat logical, though, to be wary of Republicans when most Democrats and Progressives feel the whole party has done a lot to destroy Democratic candidate’s to the point where they are seen as an enemy. I mean, how many times do we hear about 2000’s stolen election?

We as a Nation do forget, however, we are all of the same country. We all share interests in our successes and failures. This blind hatred of Republicans by Democrats or Democrats by Republicans is the machinery of Neo-Conservatism. Divide and conquer is the strategy, and it has worked very well. Of course, now we have the Limbaugh conservatives voting for Hillary too, so there will be tinfoil theories involved where politics is concerned for the time being.

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By cyrena, March 6, 2008 at 5:30 am Link to this comment


You make at least one good point here, (the last paragraph) but it is contradictory to everything else that you say. In other words, what you START with is the exact opposite of what you seem to acknowledge at the end.

Here is your introductory paragraph, which is emotional, and needs to involve a ‘dig’ or insult, that you eventually disassociate from in the end. (maybe because you’re too conflicted between the realist/pragmatic version of life, and the trauma of becoming an old person)

•  “Cyrena, obviously you did not read either my post or the article I cite. Again for you slow readers and slow learners: Obama’s support has mostly come from blacks + educated white voters + white crossover Republicans and Independents. It is the white crossovers that are propelling his wins. He is not winning with a majority of Democrats. This is highly troublesome.

Here’s the reality bert. The correct demographics of the US population of ‘blacks’ is 13%. That’s ALL the ‘blacks’ that have been included in the latest census report, up from 12% in the last. Let’s get real here…about ¼ of them actually VOTE. So, move beyond your insignificant bullshit about how Obamas support comes from blacks. Yes, it does in part..but it is a VERY SMALL PART, and definitely NOT enough to put him in the upper ranks that it has. So, if you can allow yourself to think reasonably, please understand that it is NOT the black population that has had any real significance in his rise.  RATHER, his support has come from ALL Americans, who KNOW that we need a rescue from the standard bullshit, if we are to survive.

You are of course CORRECT in your inclusion of the WHITE EDUCATED vote. However, that doesn’t explain the overwhelmingly WHITE support from states that are NOT necessarily among the ‘college educated’, because …AS WE KNOW..just because a person has a ‘so-called’ college education, doesn’t guarantee good sense, or intelligence, or moral fiber. In other words, for the purposes…a college education is helpful as additional knowledge, but it doesn’t guarantee SHIT. It CERTAINLY doesn’t guarantee good judgment, integrity, good sense, or any of the rest of the things that are necessary to leadership.

So, what is MOST problematic about your OWN mentality, is the fact that you are so constrained to ‘party loyalty’ in your thinking. And, you prove that by suggesting that any ‘crossover’ votes are ‘highly troublesome’. In other words, (and you’ve displayed this ideological illness in most of your posts) the PROBLEM is that there might be some ‘outsiders’ or ‘non-democrats’ who will vote for Obama. In short, they might not be in your ‘group’ or your ‘clique’ and so that is troublesome to you.

It means that in YOUR mentality, it’s an “OH my! There might be a (fill in the blank) under my bed!” Oh MY! These people don’t “belong to our class/party/society/whatever, whatever! “ Oh my! They might be repugs or independents! Oh my! That’s the same as…TERRORISTS! Surely THEY cannot be ‘allowed in’! Oh NO! That is ‘toublesome”!

Well…I say you’re just a frustrated old biddy, who doesn’t know how to recognize the difference between high quality perfume, and the smell of hog slop. If somebody doesn’t ‘look’ the way that you expect a democrat to ‘look’ then you automatically assign them to the ‘enemy’ category’!!  I mean, you’ve already given them the ‘once’ over, and discovered that there is some sort of dirt under the ring finger on their right hand, and so they can’t ‘sit down to dinner’ until they go back to scrub.

So yeah bert…your last paragraph about time marching on, and the reality that we ALL become ‘seniors’ is so very true. The chronological years DO pass, and we DO become ‘older’. I’m one of those ‘olders’ and ‘seniors’ who appreciates that, because for ME, it means that I learn more every day.

So No isn’t ‘toublesome’ at all, that real people are speaking out, and don’t need a ‘party’ affiliation to do it.

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By cyrena, March 6, 2008 at 4:06 am Link to this comment

Latest from MSM on the Florida and Michigan atrocity.

Florida, Michigan Primary Do-Overs?
Increasing Calls For New Vote In States Disqualified By Democratic Party
WASHINGTON, March 6, 2008
•  “(CBS/AP) The governors of Michigan and Florida are saying it’s increasingly important that delegates from the two states be seated.”

OF COUSE IT IS!! It’s not ‘increasingly important’…it’s ALWAYS been important!  These are two states that are part of our 50! How the hell did ANYBODY ever agree that they should be left out? (and why did either of them engage is the stupidity of being pissed off that Iowa and New Hampshire happened to be ‘first’ to hold their caucuses?) Who cares whose ‘first’? We are FIFTY!! Everybody gets a turn!

•  “Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm and Florida Governor Charlie Crist say it’s “reprehensible” the voices of 5.2 million people who voted in the two primaries would be silenced. “

More political bullshit spin from both of them, because they didn’t protest that this was ‘reprehensible’ before the Democrats from either state were PROHIITED from voting!

•  “Granholm, along with top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign and Florida’s state party chair, are NOW SAYING (caps are mine) they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. That’s a change from their previous insistence that the primaries their states held in January should determine how their delegates are allocated.”

•  Well, why did they think that those primaries would hold any legitimacy, when the democrats of the state(s) weren’t allowed to vote for anyone other than Hillary?

“CBS News senior political correspondent Jeff Greenfield reported Wednesday that the Clinton campaign was considering asking for “re-dos” in the two states.”

Well yeah, I guess she would be asking for ‘re-dos’ since nobody in the world is gonna even think about considering the legitimacy of these states that she’s trying to claim as ‘wins’ when half the population didn’t get to register a vote for anyone other than her.

•  “Clinton won both contests, but the results were meaningless because the elections violated national party rules.”

Well, NO SHIT! They were MEANINGLESS for the reasons we already KNOW!! Hillary was the ONLY democrat to campaign in either state, and hers was the ONLY name on the democratic ballot of those still technically in the race, with clear instructions that NO WRITE-INS would be allowed!!

Should I break that down again? In Michigan, the only name on the democratic ballot was Hillary’s and the voters were advised in advance, that NO WRITE-INS would be acknowledged!  That was ON TOP of the fact that the DLC had already decided that NO democratic delegates would be seated/recognized. Based on that, a whole bunch of democrats didn’t even bother to go to the polls.

And she’s ‘considering’ DO-OVERS? Yeah well, that might backfire on her ass as well. If the voters in Michigan and Florida actually get a SELECTION, it might not be HER!!

In Florida, a few other dems, (besides Hillary) were still on the ballot that had been printed long before, but they had dropped out of the race by the time of the primary.

Again…it had ALREADY BEEN DECIDED, that their votes wouldn’t mean anything anyway!!!

So, why has Hillary still been claiming these as ‘winning states’, when it was decided long before, that they would be meaningless?

Because…as usual, she thought everybody was stupid, and that she could market/spin/innuendo it away, by claiming ‘victories’.

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

So leefeller, how do you know YOU’RE demented, rather than whatever it was that you read?

Give us a clue. I can’t find anything here that YOU wrote that would suggested that you’re demented.

So, what made you think you were? Could it be the standard racist stuff from the Lib in Tx? The one that everybody in her neighborhood RUNS from?

Could it be this?

“... You blacks and the uneducated college students are the ones who want Obama just because he’s black and as someone said the other day he is biracial and not black.  He has nothing substantial to give. he wants the POWER!...

Yep, that’s from Lib in Tx. But, you’ve been reading this stupid shit long enough not to be surprised. So, that must not be it. Must be something else.

So tell us…

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment


You’re right of course…

““After Big Wins, Clinton Sees Race Shifting Her Way” If anything, her successes in OH and TX means that she can hang in a bit longer.  The headline in the Times give a different impression as if this is some kind of surge, to use a popular phrase.”

Although I can’t remember which thread now, Truthdig used their crystal ball to predict that Hillary would do EXACTLY this, if she ‘won’ in any of those 4 states yesterday. In short, she would play it all up as ‘big wins’ and infer ‘losses’ for Obama.

Sure enough, that’s how they started spinning it, before the polls even closed. In reality, it was…not much.

She also made a claim, (NYT I believe) in her victory speech in Ohio, that ‘we’ had won…Ohio, TX, NH, and whatever other state she won, and she ALSO INCLUDED Florida and Michigan, where she was the ONLY ONE ON THE BALLOT, since it had already been decided that those delegates would not be seated!! But as recently as yesterday, Hillary was calling both Florida and Michigan has HER ‘wins’.

So, she’s pretty scary. And yes, it IS ugly to watch,  and what’s worse is that at some point, Obama will have to react. Now if he can find a way to maintain the high road, and stay as classy as he has until now, despite her trashy tactics, then that will be great. Still, it won’t be easy.

Then again, it will be far easier for HIM, since she’s just got SO MUCH dirt that can be exposed, than it has been for her. In her case, it’s ugly because it’s so pathetically desperate and petty, so there’s no way to get it across as anything other than what it is…pathetically desperate and petty.

Consequently, she hurts herself more than she hurts him, but yeah…it’s still ugly.

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By Leefeller, March 5, 2008 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

I stand demented. (disclaimer, after reading another post on this thread, I know it is not just my meds).

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

The Guy, our polling place was also packed our small precinct had at least 500 caucusing.  The only problem, they were not prepared and it was not all that pleasant.  Voting didn’t stop until 8:30 and we were in a DARK parking lot.
The Texas Democratic Party believe Texas could be BLUE this coming Nov. YEA !

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

As usual cyrena ” I have never written a word about Ron Paul” another made up lie.
Real Fish who is the hateful one ?  You just read cyrenas post?  She is the know it all but never posts anything worth much and the reason I gave up on substance is because no matter how much information you post with information to find it your self, the Obamaites come back with the same ole crap and NEVER LOOK UP ANYTHING. SO-O not much use in information or fighting so now I am just having fun keeping cyrena and her kind on their toes.
You blacks and the uneducated college students are the ones who want Obama just because he’s black and as someone said the other day he is biracial and not black.  He has nothing substantial to give. he wants the POWER!
I have the right to my opinion and I could call you all hateful for all the derogatory things you say about Hillary.  But in your eyes that is different some how. you mr. Fish and cyrena can’t play on a even playing field,  Has to be your way or not at all.  You are selfish individuals.  So Mr Fish you and Cyrena can spew your hate all you want. You are so in love with yourselves it really is pitiful and cheap and low class.  Don’t let Cyrena fool you she is a prison guard.  He-He-He.

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By Leefeller, March 5, 2008 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment

Actually I was beginning to believe I am demented for still hanging around TD and my mental dysfunction is just fine. 

Anyway, I suspected Lib was an oxy-moron, but not being a sexist, I really never consider that relevant when reading posts.

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment


Just a few things to add to Tex Lib’s ‘bio’ so you can have a better idea of what’s really going on, and why there is no sustenance, and only hate.

For starters, she IS a repug, although I wouldn’t know about the clothing. She actually began here on the blog some months ago, in full and ranting support of Ron Paul.  (so, that’s an idea of the mentality right there). Then, when Ron Paul’s real connections became known, (along with the fact that he is an authoritarian whacko himself) and Maani came out of the woodwork to embark upon a sustained Obama hate campaign, Tex lib slithered out from under her rock and joined in.

And no, there’s absolutely nothing in any of her posts, that would give one any indication that she’s actually READ any of his speeches or position/policy papers. The closest she’s come is the pictures, since she frequently rails against him as having big ears, and other such things. Actually, he does NOT have particularly large ears. My dad has large ears, so I know what large ears look like. Obama’s are average sized. So, are you getting the picture so far?

Then there’s been all of the Muslim connections…That’s actually what Lib started out with, and she still reverts to them from time to time. I can’t remember all of the stuff that she’s come up with, but it’s never more than what one might glean from a gossip column or a KKK newsletter.

She’s also really obsessed with me any other sane and reasonable posters on this site. She frequently engages some of us in direct personal attacks that would make you think that you were in a kindergarten setting, or maybe a facility for the mentally ill with severe behavior problems.

The last complaint was against the Obama supporters who she claimed slammed the door on her in Duncanville. What she doesn’t mention, is that as a Ron Paul groupie, (and a not very bright one) she may have had on her Repug suit, or even had a tattoo of the Ron Paul theme etched into her scalp or forehead. She doesn’t say that they might have slammed the door because they were democrats, (what democrat wants to be bothered with a repug at their door on election day?) or that maybe she just scared the living shit out of them at first glance. Remember Charlie Manson’s girls from way back in the day? Now that kind of stuff might scare anybody in Duncanville, Tx.

Meantime, she’s also come up with some accusation of me being a prison guard, so that might be an indication that she’s spent some time in the poky, and has a fear of prison guards. I’ve only seen prison guards in documentary films, but I realize that some of them probably can be frightening, especially to the mentally ill that are imprisoned. So, that might be where she came up with that, or just mimicked it from elsewhere. That seems to be the standard thing, at least based on her posts.

In short, I’ve never seen her come up with anything that somebody else equally ignorant hasn’t already said. Truthdig doesn’t really monitor this stuff, so for the most part, any crackpot can post here. Now fortunately, most folks aren’t crackpots, and so there’s a lot of good information that flows through the blog. (at least I’ve learned a great deal from it).

But, there are a few of the more demented that still hang around. A few are professional trolls, but you can eventually tell the difference between the ones who are getting paid to do it, and the ones that are just crackpots like Lib there in TX. Bottom line, hateful, bitter, PWT with more than a touch of mental dysfunction. But because of the ignorance, you’ll never come across anything that would suggest she’s actually read something from Obama.

So, she’s not actually a supporter of Hillary, as much as she is a hater of Obama. (I mean, how does one make an overnight leap from Ron Paul to Hillary Clinton?)

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By yankeefan, March 5, 2008 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, realfish, I think she would be the better diplomat. Obama promises to bring people together as though he believes that’s what they really want but don’t know how to stop fighting. How naive.
If you want to fight about something meaningful, lets fight about whether universal healthcare is possible without mandates. Recycling old republican commercials is supposed to be change?

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By Leefeller, March 5, 2008 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

Hillary has a plan, she has told us many times.  She may really be doing something she has learned through all her experience as a Senator. When she votes for an issue that may be a hot topic,  she always says she actually hoped it would not pass.  Sort of like getting way behind and hoping to catch up.

Depends on what you mean by Hope? Didn’t Bill say that?

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By Leefeller, March 5, 2008 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

Hate is splendor for those love to use it to their advantage.  The Repubs are chomping at the bit, Hillary will have a much harder time than Obama.  To many people I have talked to just cannot stand Hillary, and these were women.

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By Gmonst, March 5, 2008 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

So if you disagree with this post your not open minded?

The facts are that Hillary’s strategy which the author lauds has gotten her behind in the pledged delegates to the point where it is unlikely she will catch up.  Doesn’t sound like such a great strategy to me.

I also wish people would drop the crap about how Obama didn’t win this state or that state against Hillary, Ohio or whatever, so he can’t win them in the general election.  That just doesn’t make sense, as if all those who vote for Hillary will mysteriously disappear or become McCain supporters. Not likely.

I think this democratic primary has been so heated because deep down we know its really selecting the next president.  Dinosaur McCain doesn’t have a chance in hell unless something really major changes.

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By TheRealFish, March 5, 2008 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

Ooh. So much hate there “lib.” You sure you’re not a Republican in human clothing?

I find your moniker a little strange compared to your rhetoric. “Osama Hussein Obama.” Isn’t that clever… .

I’m really curious: Have you ever listened to an Obama speech? Strangely enough, there’s really a decent amount of specificity in there, other than the fact he can string sentences together that don’t rely on “Shame, shame on you…” lingo for punctuation.

True Dat: He could play politics as Clinton does. You know, dredge up all the old urban legend s**t like Vince Foster, Whitewater, and retread all that stale old “Right Wing Conspiracy” fodder.

Same level of truth there as the “he’s a muslim” or “doesn’t cover his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance” crap (love that grand old tradition of the pledge—first invented for use in schools under the Ike/Joe McCarthy epoch of the 50s; ya gotta love that, Right?).

Besides, there all that reality about the co-presidency stuff too. Don’t think I feel too comfortable about Mr. Cheated on You and Ms. Victim trying to come up with a single, coherent reaction to any threatening crisis (especially if some elected VP has the audacity to try to butt in). It could make an interesting mud wrestling match, but I’d hate having the bomb under the bed go tick, tick, tick while they sort that out.

Lookie, if we’re gonna fight, let’s fight over something meaningful, you know? Like the only thing that will ever get us out of Iraq is political movement and diplomacy.

In your heart of hearts, Mr. Lib—do you really think Hillary would make the better First Diplomat for this country? After all, as General Petraeus said, the military can only take you just so far, but nothing will conclude a war other than political reconciliation. And somebody who can only gain an edge by crying, complaining that the Big Bad Media isn’t being nice, and jumping out of the closet and shouting “Boo!!!” doesn’t strike me as primary diplomatic material.

Ah, well.

What are you really about, Lib in Texas? All invective and so little substance.

Wow! I just realized: That sounds like Hillary!

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By laughoutloud, March 5, 2008 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

how can any person pretend to know what is in another person’s heart?  especially based on a physical display?

there are countless numbers of people who have sworn oath in court and lied.

it is reflective of the intelligence of a person who points out such a trivial matter.

I’m sure timothy mcveigh put his hand over his heart when speaking the pledge of allegiance, and we all know what was in his.

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By bert, March 5, 2008 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

Another great post over at HuffPo on why Hillary won yesterday and Obama lost, for those open minded enough to reason and fact and not just emotional attachment.

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By bert, March 5, 2008 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

Another take on why Hillary won last night and why it will be difficult for Obama to win over at today’s HuffPo by Earl Ofari Hutchinson. Great post. If you are open to reason and facts, that is.

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By bert, March 5, 2008 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena, obviously you did not read either my post or the article I cite. Again for you slow readers and slow learners: Obama’s support has mostly come from blacks + educated white voters + white crossover Republicans and Independents. It is the white crossovers that are propelling his wins. He is not winning with a majority of Democrats. This is highly troublesome.

I have no doubt that Obama, should he win the nomination, would keep the first two groups + add more Democrats. What he cannot count on with 100% certainty is crossover voters. This is a highly volatile group. Come a strong campaign from McCain this fall they could just as easily switch over to McCain. Plus Obama is not making any inroads with Latino voters. That is not good if you want a win in November. To win in Novemeber he has to broaden his support. That is all I am saying and that is all these polls and reports show. Nothing more and nothing less. They are not a put down of Obama.

In the 80’s when Dukakis ran for President he started out with a big lead in Independent voters. But over the course of the campaign Bush I ended up with a majority of those same Independents and won the election. You can’t count on them. In 2004 Bush II won about 35% of Independent voters. They are a highly volatile group and switch with regularity.

I don’t fit Obama’s profile either as I am am educated (Master’s)white voter. For what ever that menas. Nothing.

As for the Young Are Here they are always here. But eventually you join the ranks of seniors. You have no choice. Time marches on. I too am glad to see the young so excited and passionate about politics. This is a good thing.

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By jackpine savage, March 5, 2008 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment

As it turns out, there’s something peculiarly pleasing about watching the Democratic Party self-destruct before my very eyes.  If anyone deserves it, its the Democrats.

May it go to the convention, descend into rioting, and may Dear Leader decide that the time for martial law is upon us. (hell no, i’m not joking)

All my life, i’ve heard about the “land of the free and the home of the brave”.  I’ve heard about how self-reliant and strong and courageous the American people are.  But i’ve never actually seen an example of it.  Looking around me, i have to figure that its all mythological bullshit.  I wanna see it.  I predict that the big strong American people will roll over like whipped dogs.  But at least we won’t have to listen to the mythological bullshit anymore.

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By dorkus wafflebrain, March 5, 2008 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyrena, the 55 year old youngser ? Not an ignorant oldster?

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By Hellkat, March 5, 2008 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The photo in question was NOT the pledge allegiance…my friend…it was the national anthem. Not required to have hand over heart….even Bill Maher covered it on last weeks show. And by the way this is a woman posting this…

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By Leefeller, March 5, 2008 at 2:20 pm Link to this comment

The only cheating in this campaign, if you want to call it that, is Bill trying to mash on an intern. 

Obama, was way behind several weeks ago in Texas and Ohio, Hillary did nothing but maintain body-heat or stay alive.  It was not a Hillary victory, except to the talking heads and those that watch them.  It aint over until the fat lady sings folks.

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By penguinlit, March 5, 2008 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Clinton Holds the Line” is certainly a much more accurate headline than what’s running at the New York times presently:  “After Big Wins, Clinton Sees Race Shifting Her Way”  If anything, her successes in OH and TX means that she can hang in a bit longer.  The headline in the Times give a different impression as if this is some kind of surge, to use a popular phrase.  Yes, she won but it didn’t move her forward by much.  In an overall delegate count for yesterday’s primaries it’s 52% for Clinton and 48% for Obama.  “Big Wins”?  Sort of.

If anything, Clinton’s campaigning recently exposed the very qualities that people don’t like about her.  Going negative only contributes to the claims that Clinton—with the help of former president Clinton—will do anything.  When running against your own party, shouldn’t this instinct be a bit more tempered?  Sure, it’s no holds barred against the opposition party, but against a colleagues—who, even in defeat becomes the second most influential voice in the party?  Doesn’t seem smart in the long run.  Plus, it’s ugly to watch.

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By hollywood, March 5, 2008 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Big whoop!  She gained a net of between 4 and 9 total delegates.  Not nearly enough.

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By Aegrus, March 5, 2008 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

Well, cyrena, I wasn’t adding to that argument. There is another bit of information missing from the picture. Most of the Clinton camp’s numbers include both Michigan and Florida, which do not count via reprimand of the Democratic National Convention. Even with those exaggerated numbers, Hillary only has 300,000 more votes. Hardly a lead.

Considering all the nonsense from Limbaugh about Republicans voting for Hillary to keep the race going, I’d be interested to see the good numbers depicting who went where on the Texas/Ohio primaries.

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

Actually Aegrus,

It’s totally irrational to even say that Obama has got his popular votes from other than Democrats, but in the end, it doesn’t matter. Because, it’s a new dawn, and a new day, and Hillary is history. Even the smartest of the oldsters know that.

Ah, but you just said that, and much better than I. It’s curious about the oldsters who insist on keeping themselves stuck in the ditch. Yep, they dig in their feet, and say no, no, no…to every possible chance for improving their own condition.

Can’t help but wonder why. I know in many cases, it’s mental illness. Could be the Alzheimer’s. It does seem specific to oldersters though.

I’m glad I’m a still enlightened middle ager. I think the rest are gonna stay stuck. Others have come around though.

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

It’s because of the Young being here, that Obama has won, and it’s obvious that he’s won from white dems, or he wouldn’t have won 13 states. There aren’t enough black people in the country to put Obama even close to that, without the white vote.

So yeah, the young are here, and we thank God for you. We thank God you’ve decided to take back your birthright, because there’s no denying that the past 3 generations of ‘grown-ups’ has pretty much sold you down the river. (or allowed the neocons to do it).

So, in saving yourselves, (and taking matters into your own hands) you’ve saved the rest of us as well, even if so many of the oldsters are still too ignorant to know it.

I thank you.

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By THE YOUNG ARE HERE, March 5, 2008 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

By the way my last post was to bert.

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By THE YOUNG ARE HERE, March 5, 2008 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

Only won white dems in 2 states?  But shit I’m a white dem and voted obama in WI.  and so did a lot of others.

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By The Guy, March 5, 2008 at 11:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I won’t even say who I voted for.  Whether winning or losing, it pales in the light of the incredible energy I saw yesterday in the Texas Democratic primary.

Faithful Democrats in Texas have languished under the burden of having a “Bush” at the top of our ticket for twenty eight years.  Consequently the national party made the strategic decision of turning its back on the state, except for occasional runs to Dallas and Houston to scoop up cash.

I wish I could decribe the scene at my polling place last night.  Over a thousand voters returned to participate in the caucus.  The line ran three abreast in a folded “ribbon” thoughout the high school parking lot and out into the street.  In most years only a handful show up.

Suddenly the idea of turning Texas blue again entered my mind.  I almost cried. 

Of course, we would all have to put a stop to the kind of “spitting contest” I am SEE on this page right now.  This crap is damaging and entirely useless. 

GROW UP PEOPLE! We all have too much at stake.

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By Louise, March 5, 2008 at 10:45 am Link to this comment

“Hillary’s Math Problem”

“Hillary Clinton may be poised for a big night tonight, with wins in Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island. Clinton aides say this will be the beginning of her comeback against Barack Obama. There’s only one problem with this analysis: they can’t count.”

Actually they can count, but they think we’re to stupid to do the math.

Which explains the rumble this morning about Hillary’s generous offer to “share” her ticket with Obama. I think that sounds more like her cry for help!

Hillarys camp has been fighting dirty. From resurrecting obviously altered pictures and religious/racial slurs, first put out by “swift-boat” type repubs, to altering the video of Obama to make him look blacker*, to her gracious offer to Obama. Which is really designed to convince us, he is losing. He isn’t and he knows it!

[*Clinton Stays on the Attack; Truthdig A/V Booth]

And who knows what garbage they plan on dumping on us next? Because that’s really what they’re doing you know.

Dumping on us.

Fighting dirty is oh so republican. Brings nauseous memories and creates confusion. But more than that it tells us the Hillary campaign has a fairly low opinion of we the people. Sink to the lowest possible denominator, cause that’s the only thing the voters can understand.

Well Hillary supporters may be OK with that, but honest people with feelings and memories and a genuine wish to see the garbage in DC washed away, are not!

Maybe Hillary and her camp need to clean up their act before it all comes back to haunt them!

By the way, the blogs are already filling up with comments from disgruntled voters in Ohio, who think the outcome was, well “questionable.”

Ohio? Naw, they dont have that kind of reputation, do they?

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By Inherit The Wind, March 5, 2008 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

Evidence? Facts? Logic?  What are you, some kind of neo-con fascist commie pinko?

Please explain how “cheating” in Ohio can result in a 10-12 percentage point win.  1%, maybe.  But double digits?  NFW!

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By Inherit The Wind, March 5, 2008 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

Scientologist, eh? The “Psychiatrist/Psychologist Conspiracy Theory”...More tin-foil hatters.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 5, 2008 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

Yeah, we all know there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between McCain, Clinton, Obama, Bush, David Duke, Kinky Friedman, and everybody but Ralph Nader and Dennis the Menace Kucinich.

(Yawn) Same ol’ $#!t, different day.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 5, 2008 at 10:19 am Link to this comment

Not to worry.  It’s easy to mix up all the handles!

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By Marco, March 5, 2008 at 10:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

LiT, why don’t you go over to  I think you’d be more comfortable there.

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By waxman, March 5, 2008 at 10:05 am Link to this comment


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By Gmonst, March 5, 2008 at 9:49 am Link to this comment

Thanks for pointing that out.  Obama does have very solid credentials in my opinion.  He may be new on the national scene, but that doesn’t mean he won’t do a good job.

I would also like to state that the much touted picture of Obama not holding his hand to his heart during the pledge of allegiance, is actually a picture of Obama not holding his hand to his heart during the playing of America the Beautiful.

Hillary won last night, but she is still loosing the race.  Unless she really starts rolling off a string of wins (unlikely), I don’t think its going to be enough to get the nomination.

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By felicity, March 5, 2008 at 9:25 am Link to this comment

First-hand accounts posted on other sites of Repubs gleefully voting for Hillary because they hate her and figure if she’s the nominee McCain will cream her. According to them, not only will McCain beat her, he’ll put her reputation in the tank in the process.  Republicans diabolical?  Surely you jest.

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By Aegrus, March 5, 2008 at 8:37 am Link to this comment

The inexperience claim is still as much a lie as it was when it was first stated.

Eight years on the Illinois State Senate.

Two Years in the Federal Senate

Community organizer in Chicago

Civil Rights attorney

President of Harvard Law Review

On the Foreign Relations Committee.

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By tigger, March 5, 2008 at 8:32 am Link to this comment

First of all, I give Hilary alot of credit for sticking it out and pressing on.  Her efforts stand alone besides Obama.  Which he has had to rely on star power to get his rise in face.  Women work harder in general, and her purpose and sense of leadership has long outweighed the inexperience of Obama!  He can’t even hold his hand over his hear for the pledge of allegiance…now what does that tell you??

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By Aegrus, March 5, 2008 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

Yeah, old-politics Dems with their partisan stupidity are clamoring about Hillary Clinton all the time. It’s understood the large number of registered Dems are unabashedly stuck in the mindframe of old policy and old democratic initiatives. Times are changing, though. Get over it. Hillary is going to fizzle, and all the Clintonomics with her.

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By Aegrus, March 5, 2008 at 8:14 am Link to this comment

Unfortunately, politics is not fair. Life isn’t fair. The media isn’t fair.

Don’t worry, though. I was correct when I said this is the beginning of the end for Hillary Clinton, and time will prove me right.

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

Cyrena you are the one I knew would be tickled about the door slamming as you are the typical RACIST always calling other people racist so they won’t look at you.  BUT YOU ARE A RACIST !!!  NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.  THE DOOR SLAMMING IS THE TYPICAL LOW CLASS ACT THAT YOU AND YOUR OBAMA BOOT LICKERS WOULD BE PROUD OF.  THAT ACTION IS ALSO WHY YOU LOW CLASS OBAMA FOLLOWERS LOST IN TEXAS.

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By bert, March 5, 2008 at 8:10 am Link to this comment

that analyze voting patterns for Obama, Clinton, and McCain.

The first address is to a recent PEW poll.

The second is to the perfect world article.

The last is the Slate article that put me on to this in the first place.

A Number You Probably Haven’t Seen
•  It’s well-known that Barack Obama’s success has depended largely on independent and Republican voters. The corollary to that, however, has been less thoroughly reported: Obama is losing among Democrats.

Over at the Perfect World, Cal Lanier crunches the numbers and finds that Obama, despite being ahead among pledged delegates, has fewer total votes among people who identify themselves as Democrats. (He has 7,392,809 votes; Clinton has 8,229,063.) That gives Clinton as lead with 52 percent of Democrats. Lanier also breaks the numbers down by race and points out that Obama has won white Democrats in only two states: New Mexico and Illinois.

The numbers are hardly perfect. They rely on CNN and MSNBC exit polls, which are inherently rough.

(Extrapolating those percentages to estimate exact numbers of voters is going to compound margins of error.) And because caucuses report delegates, not individual turnout, those stats are going to be a little murky, too. I’d also dispute their inclusion of Florida and Michigan in the count. But Clinton’s lead is still large enough to be significant.

It helps you understand why the party gives so much power to its 796 superdelegates. If they didn’t, independents and Republicans could essentially hijack their election. It also makes you wonder whether Clinton should start citing this number, if she maintains her lead through the convention in August. Even if Obama leads in the popular vote and among pledged delegates, it might disturb party gray beards to learn that the nominee has essentially been chosen by outsiders.

Posted Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:34 PM by Christopher Beam on

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By Aegrus, March 5, 2008 at 8:08 am Link to this comment

Missouri, anyone? Picked presidents for the last fifty years too.

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

His PAC donated to some those super delagates elections.  WHY HASN’T THAT BEEN EXPOSED. Its easy to find just look up Obams PAC.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 5, 2008 at 7:57 am Link to this comment

She’s a good Scorpio,  lib in texas, and that is exactly why she will be the best person for the job. She has studied and learned the use of power and strategy and observed its failings.

If that appears arrogant - and I don’t think so - that is still all to the good.  That is what a competent leader should be like - not a pandering loudmouth.

She won’t be susceptible to the things that Obama would be - and she is a good match to beat McCain regardless of what he comes up with. They are both seniors and white so it will get down to the nitty-gritty and the Democrats are in favor this year if they don’t stuff up.

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 7:52 am Link to this comment


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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 7:47 am Link to this comment

Doug, isn’t it great they have all lost heir tiny brains.

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 7:43 am Link to this comment

Your the small brained pathetic obama ass kisser.  No wonder Obama is losing with losers like you, cyrena, mid city mike, aergus, inherit the wind, samosamo, backing him.  You really make him look MORE like the lying cheating person he is.

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By Expat, March 5, 2008 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

^ I got it.

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By bert, March 5, 2008 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

Well, there you go again. Ohio is a swing state and no candidate has won the White House without winning Ohio in 50 years. The last candidate to do so was John F. Kennedy, and we all know he got big time help from Chicago Mayor Richard Daly and the corrupt Chicaho machine.

When Hillary said that she was simply stating historical fact which every Ohioan knows. It is why Presidential candidates spend so much time in Ohio.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 5, 2008 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

Love it, ha ha!

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 7:38 am Link to this comment

The osama hussein obamas fixed all of those ll states. They are huge cheaters but couldn’t figure out OHIO and TEXAS as there was to many people watching.  OBAMA the lying cheating Chicago political crook. Curious George the CHIMP.

TEXAS WENT TO THE POLLS AND SPOKE!!!! You hating Pygmy brained drug using alcoholics.  That is the only thing that can explain the raging idiotic puke you are spewing.

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By loveinatub, March 5, 2008 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

She wins Ohio and claims “so goes Ohio, so goes the nation” and says because of her victory she should be the democratic nominee..

Arrogance and power obssessed…....

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By Expat, March 5, 2008 at 7:26 am Link to this comment

^ thanks for the info.

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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 7:23 am Link to this comment

If Osama Hussein Obama is elected that is exactly what will happen.  He is a lying piece of crap and a Chicago poliical crook also.

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By Maani, March 5, 2008 at 7:23 am Link to this comment


“And, do you really expect people to respond to you when you consistently insult them. I mean come on.”

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!


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By Maani, March 5, 2008 at 7:22 am Link to this comment


You can’t steal peace!  Feel free to use it - and live it - all you like.


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By lib in texas, March 5, 2008 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

No hope for you you freaken Osama Hussein Obama
boot licker.  You do amaze me with the kind of logic you come up with.  Cheating and voter fraud, holy sh*t.

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By bert, March 5, 2008 at 7:18 am Link to this comment

P.S. Expat
The web site is

You do have to use “the” in the title.

Second, about a week or a week and a half ago had a direct link to the site and the article and the spreadsheet under an article titled, “A Number You Probably Haven’t Seen.” You might try that first if you are truly interested.

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By bert, March 5, 2008 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

Expat - I will try later today. I have to go to work right now. It can be difficult yo find, I know.

Also, try PEW Research. They have a recent similar poll and is easier to find.

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By Aegrus, March 5, 2008 at 6:53 am Link to this comment

Hey, let’s reserve judgment until we have some hard evidence to use. There is no point in speculation unless you want to follow Hillary Clinton/Karl Rove doctrine of fear and smear.

When we find out where voter suppression was taking place, we’ll route it out. Legal action will be taken. Obama will be the next president.

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Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, March 5, 2008 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

Let’s see Clinton loses, then she loses again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, THEN wait folks she pulls off TWO big wins, and where was that…...TEXAS AND OHIO!  Now WHY would anyone think there’s any cheating going on…?!

Cheating and voter fraud….??? TEXAS AND OHIO….???  Why would anyone even think such a thing….?

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 5, 2008 at 6:32 am Link to this comment

I like the one about     The Next American Century….

....the United States can prosper amidst the rise in power of foreign countries.  They claim that the U.S. should focus on solving its own problems while maintaining and creating partnerships abroad…

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By Sharon Ash, March 5, 2008 at 6:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Major congrats to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton who we will be able to call President Hillary Rodham Clinton on 1/20/09.  A woman’s place is in the house…The White House, and most especially this woman, who is the most qualified candidate we have seen for this office in modern times. Very, very much appreciate you Hillary Clinton, for proving you have what it takes to fulfill this very difficult position for a very complex country.  This office is not for the faint of heart and you have shown ‘true grit’!

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By Marlee, March 5, 2008 at 6:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hillary the Democratic candidate=McCain next president.

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By troublesum, March 5, 2008 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

Sorry, the correct address is:;=&PlayMedia=No

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By troublesum, March 5, 2008 at 5:45 am Link to this comment

Why Clinton, Obama, and McCain are winning:;=&PlayMedia=Yes

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By Aegrus, March 5, 2008 at 5:42 am Link to this comment

cyrena, actually, I had done number crunching a few hours before polls exited. I had Obama ahead at 54% in Teaxas. The Ohio polls, I cannot say the same for.

I was a little surprised.

Hillary’s campaign has thrown the kitchen sink, though, and when voters realize she doesn’t have anything left…well, they will go back to Obama. It is, however, disheartening Hillary and the media had to smear Barack for a whole week, non-stop to secure this establishment had a favorable outcome.

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By samosamo, March 5, 2008 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

Just when I thought that the end of the family political dyansties was fading away, now we are staring straight into the abyss of oblivion with hillbilly hillary back in the race.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 5, 2008 at 4:38 am Link to this comment

Some pics published here have been actually two pics juxtaposed intentionally for effect, HG.

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By HG, March 5, 2008 at 4:30 am Link to this comment

The media has been showing flattering pictures of Obama and unflattering ones of Clinton.  The one used for this article is a first.

Obama towers over Clinton, giving no doubt that he’s dominating the relationship.  Obama is holding a bottle close to his body and low enough to suggest a phallus but high by his diaphragm suggesting fantastic endowment.

Their faces suggest mutual attraction but Clinton is floating from him on the other side of a chasm produced by the background and Obama’s coat.  It suggests her indecisiveness.

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By Inherit The Wind, March 5, 2008 at 3:54 am Link to this comment

Hillary Clinton beat Barack Obama in Ohio by between 10 to 12 percentage points.  In this day and age, cheating gets you a MAXIMUM of 2 points, 3 if you stretch it.

If you think she cheated and didn’t win in Ohio, prove it.

In Texas she won by 4 points—again, prove she cheated.

These are solid wins, not 2004 Bush-Ohio wins or 2000 Bush-Florida wins, where 10x or more as many likely Democrats were denied the right to vote than was Bush’s margin.

Hillary’s margin in Ohio in THE PRIMARY was DOUBLE what Bush beat Kerry by in 2004.  How THE HELL could she cheat THAT MUCH?????

Oh, I forgot—these are all the tin-foil hatters who think Israel was behind the WTC bombing and that the Saudi scumbags who actually did it are being slandered.  Anything’s possible for those preternatural demonic Jews whose only desire is to destroy the world.

As I said before, should join with the or because the insanity, hatred and disconnect from reality is the same.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 5, 2008 at 3:19 am Link to this comment

By Outraged, March 4: “Of course like I said, in a FAIR contest Clinton would lose, mainly because she HAS to cheat to win…”

The battle reflects the trench warfare that both campaigns expect if the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination stretches on to the Pennsylvania primary on April 22. Democratic officials involved in the conversations said Obama was lining up a package of superdelegates — the party insiders whose votes help select the Democratic nominee — with plans to announce their support as a bloc.

Obama also plans to announce he raised more than $50 million in February, considerably more than Clinton’s $35 million. The Obama theory was that the separate announcements would convey juggernaut-like momentum if Obama had big wins on Tuesday, and would help turn the page if he had a disappointing showing in the Texas or Ohio primaries.

But aides to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) became convinced by network exit polls and her own data that she would have a stronger-than-expected showing. So they immediately began urging Obama’s prospective superdelegates to withhold their support….

The Obama campaign had an extensive “whip” organization set up to track and woo these officials, including members of Congress….

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 2:18 am Link to this comment


How do the horribly depressed conditions in Ohio make for a Hillary choice? My mother is also from Ohio, and so I too have many relatives still there. But, the conditions that you speak of are NOT ‘new’ and there’s no possible reason for ANYBODY to believe that Hillary is going to do any more about that, then anybody else. I mean seriously…no malicious or sarcasm intended, but the very depressed conditions there, (not unlike the same conditions in neighboring Michigan) are very much a result of the same policies that Clinton has consistently supported..NAFTA to begin with, though there are others.

So, do Ohioans not understand that? It just seems like they would. OTOH, I think you’re very wrong about the crossover votes, as explained by a democrat from TX on a different thread. (sorry, I can’t remember which one now, but I’ll try to find it). He says that he was IN LINE behind a REPUG at the polling place, who was planning to vote for Hillary, just so that she would eventually be able to vote for McCain in the general election.

Now I admit that this threw me a bit, because I lived in TX for 17 years, and when I lived there, Democrats and Repuglicans didn’t even vote in the primaries on the SAME DAY. So, unless things have changed, it would mean that this normally repuglican voter, had changed her affiliation to Democrat, so that she could vote, not necessarily ‘for’ Hillary, but AGAINST Obama, so that she could vote for McCain in the general election, but if he didn’t win, Hillary would be the next best thing.

What I guess I’m saying that I’ve been saying for a really long time, is that Hillary Clinton is THE SAME AS A REPUBLICAN!! And, I’ve been saying that because SHE IS, and even if we don’t look at anything other than her Senate record, that’s how she’s voted, and she has supported repug policies and positions for the past 7 years.

Based on that, why do you find it at all surprising, that she would have won the Repug state of Texas, because of cross over voters? We’ve got repugs like Lib from Tx, who started out supporting Ron Paul, and possibly still do. But, based on all the rantings and raving from her on this blog, it would at least ‘seem’ like she supported Hillary. Still, she’s a repug who has simply been highly ANTI-Barack Obama.

So, while I certainly understand the depressed conditions in Ohio, those conditions are duplicated throughout the country, (NOT JUST OHIO BERT - NOT JUST ABOUT YOU) and Hillary has much to do with that. On the other hand, I also know much about Texas, and there, it’s far more a case of legendary racism and staunch conservatives that would have won the day for Hillary.

Ergo…CROSSOVER votes helped her in Texas, and a good dose of cheating helped her in Ohio.

I don’t know a single solitary Ohioan, (economically depressed or otherwise) who actually voted for Hillary!

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 1:56 am Link to this comment

I don’t think we’d quite calling it an ‘arse kicking’ lib. The overall delegate count still has Obama ahead by 89 delegates, so Hillary will have to do more of the same elsewhere. She might have a shot in Pennsylvania, but not anywhere else.

And, do you really expect people to respond to you when you consistently insult them. I mean come on. It’s just so low class and gutter like. Typical Texas.

I honestly didn’t expect Obama to do as well as he did in Texas, because of the fact that it IS a repug state, and has been for at least the past 3 decades.

So, either way, the repugs won the state, whether they voted for McCain or Clinton.

Now I am curious about who YOU voted for Lib in Texas, since you’re originally a Ron Paul repug. When did you abandon him? Some supporter you are.

Never mind, I don’t need to know. I’m still tickled about the doors that got slammed in your face in Duncanville.

And Lib, we already know that PEACE, is NOT what you’re interested in. Racists are NEVER interested in Peace.

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By fool, March 5, 2008 at 12:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You call that an ass kicking? Your response is devoid of class. But then again class is something clintonistas lack. What’s the delegate count? Now who’s laughing. hahahaha.

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By Outraged, March 5, 2008 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

What’s the matter “bert” your little BS “found out”.

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By Fooled, March 5, 2008 at 12:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

trusted hillary? the same hillary who championed nafta which has taken away the jobs from those people in the first place? I feel sorry for you.

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By cyrena, March 5, 2008 at 12:05 am Link to this comment


You were reading my mind on the cheating..about them not even trying to ‘make it look good’. I haven’t checked your links yet, but there’s been an ongoing Reuters/C-SPAN/Houston Chronicle poll for the past several days, and they keep it updated.

Now I know enough about polls and the like, to know that they are never 100% accurate, and that yes, results can change. But I mean…COME ON…This is from 2 days ago!!! And we’re not supposed to be able to figure this out?

Clinton Trails in Texas, Deadlocked in Ohio
  By John Whitesides

Like, why didn’t they at least try to make it seem a little bit closer to the REAL vote? Well, I guess that’s kind of hard when you’re cheating, eh? But remember New Hampshire? There are STILL multiple questions about that. Dennis Kucinich filed to contest that, but I’ve never heard what the outcome was. Still, it was always suspicious.

In reality, I thought things might go to Clinton in Texas, but I was sure it would be very close. But, let us remember that it wouldn’t have been enough for her, if it had been ‘close’, because she was still so far behind Obama in delegates. So, that’s why the cheating had to be on such a large scale.

Now, Hillary couldn’t have gotten away with this in any other state, at least at this point in the game. But Texans will not ‘rise up’ in any protest. And, fortunate for Hillary that Tx had their primary this late, giving her time to set up the massive cheating that she didn’t know she would need, until Obama won those 11 in a row.

The same appears to have worked in Ohio.

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By Expat, March 4, 2008 at 11:56 pm Link to this comment

Interesting post, thanks.  I couldn’t find the “perfect world .com…...can you post an actual link?

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By waxman, March 4, 2008 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment


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By bert, March 4, 2008 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment

What is pathetic is your response to the numbers. If you knew anything about Ohio and Ohio politics (I was born and lived in Ohio over 59 years) you would know that south eastern Ohio is very economically depressed right now due to a lot of plant closings and jobs and companies leaving Ohio. In fact, the area was profiled on 60 Minutes last Sunday. I guess the folks there just trusted Hillary a little bit more than Obama to try and help them. No cheating went on. This was just plain and simple a good performace by Hillary.

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By Outraged, March 4, 2008 at 11:13 pm Link to this comment

Thanks Cyrena and Thanks Groovesmoothly.

Of course like I said, in a FAIR contest Clinton would lose, mainly because she HAS to cheat to win, all republicans have to cheat.  They can’t win any other way, hands down.  Probably why we see such viciousness from the Clintonites, you know they can’t contain themselves and eventually they show their true colors. That’s reality, they ARE republicans and not democrats or progressives at all.

Have you checked some of the county exit poll stats in Ohio and Texas…?  In some, Obama received only 20% of the vote. Now that’s complete and utter BS!

Check it out:


The sad fact is…that they are SO inept they’re not even smart enough to “make it look good”.  Pathetic….really pathetic.

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