Zmag my ass.

“The Spirit Of Resistance Lives”

Total crock of shit.

How about resisting genocidal Arab Jihadi Muslim terrorism? That never seems to make it onto Zmag’s list of “resistance” imperatives.

Hypocritical dead-end leftist crap.

Such a legal scholar, and a humble one, too.

When a poster starts linking to bigoted rags like Counterpunch and Zmag, you kow the selective moral and critical filters are in place and running at full power.

If terrorists took away whatever Franks cherishes, you can be sure he would want justice, even if some “international law” had to be bent to satisfy him.

Typical leftist hypocritical moral grandstanding.

VOT…YOU make the leap here, because you didn’t read the language carefully enough. (your spelling error detection not with standing)

Here’s what you say…

•  “You make the leap of conclusion that Venezuela has a mutual defense pact with Ecuador as potential justification.  I do not believe that is the case.”

And, here’s what Joe Franks actually wrote:

“…..and if Venezuela had a mutual defense pact with Ecuador, Venezuela could legally attack Colombia.”

IF, IF, IF…

He doesn’t claim this agreement, though I will check, just for the sake of argument, to see if such an agreement does exist.

Meantime, you do miss the much larger point, since the structure of international law is in place for the purpose of PREVENTING war. And, Colombia is in violation of international law, for attacking ANYBODY in ANY other country than their own. It’s pretty much that simple.

Neither the Canadian government or the Mexican government can send their troops into the US, to attack ANYBODY. Got that? It would be considered an act of war, and the US could legitimately (and legally) strike back.

Fortunately, Equator has NOT done that, and neither has Chavez, but it makes all the sense in the world for either of them to put troops at THEIR OWN BORDERS, to make sure that Uribe doesn’t think he can just do whatever the hell he wants anywhere in Latin America, just because he’s backed by the US, who has practiced this same illegality throughout the rest of the world.

“the people of both Columbia and Israel suffer due to the support the U.S. government gives to certain powerful segments of their respective populations”

Tired, stale, de-bunked leftist claptrap.

Thanks for correcting my spelling error; it would be more to the point, however, if you could correct an error in my argument.

A few fun facts:

Mentions of “Uribe” and “dictator” in the same paragraph in U.S. newspapers over the past 10 years: 33

Mentions of “Chavez” and “dictator” in the same paragraph in U.S. newspapers over the past 10 years: 1519

Referenda that included proposal to modify constitution to remove term limits:
Chavez: 1
Uribe: 1

Won referendum removing term limits from constitution:
Chavez: no
Uribe: no

Removed term limits from constitution anyway:
Chavez: no
Uribe: yes

Actively seeking to devolve governmental power to the neighborhood/local community level:
Chavez: yes
Uribe: no

...uh, which one is the dictator again?

Reminds me of Bill Hicks asking who the cowards are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDQVPXVAlok&feature=related (8th minute)

Ecuador also sent troops to its border.  Both Venezuela and Ecuador have the right to defend their borders.  The complaint against Colombia and the U.S. is their attacks in other countries.

And unlike Bush, Chavez doesn’t need to steal a presidential election.

Oooh, all the big words, I’ll bet you shut down the Dictionary.com site.  And yet, you still couldn’t spell Colombia correctly at any time.  Colombia is a country in South America.  Columbia is the capital of the State of South Carolina.

You make the leap of conclusion that Venezuela has a mutual defense pact with Ecuador as potential justification.  I do not believe that is the case.

Finally, you have yet to address the central point I have put forward, that Chavez and his sabre rattling is nothing more than a thug trying to increase his dictatorship over neighbors and increase his sphere of influence.  Isn’t that what most on this site claim of George Bush and the US?  Why is wrong for the US, but seems just fine for Venezuela?

Moving troops to another country’s border is not a casus belli; what is a casus belli, however, is bombing another country, and then sending troops across that country’s border.  Chavez did the former; Uribe did the latter.

This would be easy to overlook, given the way this story is presented here.  (try these for context: http://counterpunch.org/gott03042008.html and http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/16296; or for reactions from Latin American governments: http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3229) 

But for those who care to understand what international law would have to say about this situation, it is clear that Uribe is in the wrong here.  It would be legal under international law for Correa to attack Columbia in self-defense, and if Venezuela had a mutual defense pact with Ecuador, Venezuela could legally attack Columbia.  Much to the chagrin of many Unitedstatesian nationalists, international law is blind to whether a country is subservient to the U.S. government, as Columbia is, and as Venezuela is not.

Providing an instantiation of the saying that patriotism is an often arbitrary veneration of real estate over principles, some people think it justified for Uribe to violate another country’s sovereignty if it is for the purpose of attacking “terrorists”.  Yet I presume they would not think it justified if Castro were to bomb terrorists in Miami, or if Maggie Thatcher had bombed terrorists in Boston.  (Or if Guatemalans, Iranians, Timorese, Cambodians, Chileans, etc., etc., had bombed terrorists in Langley or Pentagon City.)  Real estate over principles indeed.

U.S. imperialism’s preoccupation with its Mideast problems has helped allow Venezuela some space.

Unlike Bush, Chavez didn’t need to steal a presidential election.

First off, I am very happy to be called a Unitedstatesian.  Additionally, I have travelled extensively throughout the world and lived in foreign countries as well.  I believe that any ignorance being displayed has been quite effectively put up by yourself.

Ah, you miss my point entirely, which is most likely due to your own limited intelligence.  Essentially, there is no difference in the saber rattling of a left wing kook who runs a country and that of a right wing nut who runs a country.  Both are a threat to their neighbors/potential enemies.

In this case, Colombia has made exactly zero threats/incursions, etc, against Venezuela.  In fact, the FARC were operating out of Ecuador, which is on the other side of Colombia from Venezuela.  If you were more intelligent, you might know that Venezuela, Ecuador and Panama were at one time all part of the Colombia, called Gran Colombia.  Hence, the long-standing animosity between Venezuela and Colombia.  Additionally, you might actually see that Chavez, whether he be a left- or right-winger, is essentially a dictator and is trying to “export’ his power throughout his neighbors to create a sphere of influence.  Please tell me how this is any different from what most on this site claim to be the mission of George Bush and the United States.

Is this more clear to you?  Do I need to make it more simple?

Joe Franks…this is great!

The summary is wonderful…

“The people whom you criticize for not posting are at least intelligent enough to know the limits of their knowledge.  You, sadly, have yet to arrive at this stage of your intellectual development.”

Actually, the whole thing is. I think the Unitedstatesian is perfect as well.

As my grandma used to say quite frequently…Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and prove it. (at least when it’s obvious that one doesn’t have a clue to what the hell they’re talking about.)

I think most people are missing the point. 

Until this past week I, too, had left leaning respect for Chavez because he respected his peoples’ vote in the constitutional elections.  I also found him amusing in the way he rattles Mad George’s cage. 

Seeing him make such an ass of himself by ordering his military to the border over this incident will very quickly create a casus belli.  What next? a few explosions in the major cities followed by martial law will ensure that Chavez sticks around for decades to come. 

Why else would he so casually risk a small regional war?

You open up a fascinating line of inquiry, VoT.  For instance, switch the words Chavez with Lee, Venezuela with South Korea, Columbia with yakuza, and the dead terrorists with dead ethnic Koreans in Japan, and you’d have a lot of people of all kinds of political views scratching their heads.

Yet with the amount of information - and a lot more dis- and misinformation - Unitedstatesians get about Venezuela, the FARC and Columbia, this news story should rather be making people like yourself and ekdar/Drake scratching your heads in befuddlement.  You are insufficiently informed to be commenting on this story.

Otherwise, you would realize that your comparison between Columbia/Venezuela and Israel/Palestine is pointless.  (Unless you were pointing out that the first country in these pairs is a U.S. client state, and the second is a de facto enemy; or that Columbia and Israel are two of the top recipients of U.S. military aid; or that the people of both Columbia and Israel suffer due to the support the U.S. government gives to certain powerful segments of their respective populations; but these are surely not the points you were driving at.)  Why not go whole hog with your mad libs treatment: Replace Chavez with (world leader), Venezuela with (country), Columbia with (second country), dead terrorists with members of (political organization).  What fun we can have!

It is not so much that you are crazy, or a kook, as you are a typically Unitedstatesian bullshitter, holding out on a topic about which you have only the most superficial understanding: names, places, binary political affiliations (left/right), and epithets to use (dictator).  The people whom you criticize for not posting are at least intelligent enough to know the limits of their knowledge.  You, sadly, have yet to arrive at this stage of your intellectual development.

Click http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3222

This is ludicrous.  This guy is pissed because some terrorists got offed, threatens to invades a neighbor, and no one else on this site thinks this is remotely even worth commenting on.

Switch the words Chavez with Bush, Venezuela with the United States, Colombia with Hamas, and the dead terrorists with dead Isrealis, and you’d have half the left kook world raining down vehement hatred, spewing bile and righteous indignation.  Incredible.

I really wondered how long it would take for folks to comment on this story, and really none did.

Ekdar:

Actually, I “call out” Cyrena more often than anyone else on this site.  Indeed, our mutual loathing of each other (LOL) is something of a petit cause celebre here.  Indeed, some might even call it obsessive.  LOL.

As for Non Credo, while I may disagree with most of his posts, I generally refrain from participating in the “Israel-Jewish” debates at all because they are so hopelessly emotional and toxic, and serve little purpose other than to let the extremists on both sides vent at each other in a safe cyberspace atmosphere.

Peace.

Actually, calling them on their bullshit is fruitless.  Even when presented with hard, contradicting fact, they ignore or dispute.  It’s a waste of time and is why I’ve stopped responding to them completely.

Here’s the deal, Maani - LieDig is a cesspool of the crudest bigotry and hatred this side of David Duke and Aryan Nations. Just read Non Credo and Cyrena’s idiotic posts about how “the Jews” have taken over the US. Seriously. They might as well be quoting from The Protocols.

And the real problem is that nominally serene posters such as yourself never call them on the bullshit.

That’s why you are taken at face value. If you want to be on the in-crowd, you have to show some spine.

“Peace” to the far left means the quiet after having eliminated one’s enemies - dissent is squashed by means of the gulag, the hangman’s noose (read Fadel Abdallah on other threads here), censorship, and of course, shouting down one’s opponents at speaking engagements (watch Daniel Pipes try to speak at a college campus).

Orwell said it best - some animals are more equal than others. Chavez can make war on his neighbors because he’s, well, one of them - on the left.

Ekdar/niloroth:

You both need to try growing a sense of humor.  If you could not tell I was kidding, then you REALLY need to lighten up!

Peace.  (Yup, peace.)

That makes no sense.

You abhor Bush’s behavior - fine - that’s your opinion.

Why does that make Chavez’s belligerency OK?

Because Chavez is a far-left dictator instead of an elected conservative US president?

Talk about double-standards, Jesus please help this man…........

No kidding.

“If Bush can saber-rattle against a country thousands of miles away (Iran), Chavez can certainly saber-rattle against a country on his border.”

followed by:

” Peace.”

to quote dialog from the princess bride, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Ekdar:

Actually, one could take a different perspective.  If Bush can saber-rattle against a country thousands of miles away (Iran), Chavez can certainly saber-rattle against a country on his border.

Peace.

Chavez is the darling dictator of the left, so you won’t see any criticism of his beliigerent behavior on these pages.

Funny things the Party Line and Group-Think are.