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Ear to the Ground

A Bloody Duel in Gaza

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Posted on Feb 28, 2008

Israeli airstrikes have killed at least 32 Palestinians, including four boys and a six-month-old infant, in the Gaza Strip since Wednesday morning in a standoff that continued into Thursday evening, according to the BBC. 


BBC:

The Israelis say their attacks are a response to the firing of Palestinian rockets into southern Israel.

A BBC correspondent says Gazan drivers are staying at home, worried their vehicles could be hit from the air.

Well into the night, Israeli air strikes could still be heard in Gaza, the BBC’s Aleem Maqbool reports.

There are no signs of either the Israeli army or the Palestinian militants backing down, and the people in Israeli border towns and across the Gaza Strip are bracing themselves for more violence, he adds.

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By brewerstroupe, March 4, 2008 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

Yes, There is Apartheid in Israel
By SHULAMIT ALONI
“On one occasion I witnessed such an encounter between a driver and a soldier who was taking down the details before confiscating the vehicle and sending its owner away. “Why?” I asked the soldier. “It’s an order—this is a Jews-only road”, he replied. I inquired as to where was the sign indicating this fact and instructing [other] drivers not to use it. His answer was nothing short of amazing. “It is his responsibility to know it, and besides, what do you want us to do, put up a sign here and let some antisemitic reporter or journalist take a photo so he that can show the world that Apartheid exists here?”

Shulamit Aloni is the former Education Minister of Israel. She has been awarded both the Israel Prize and the Emil Grunzweig Human Rights Award by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel

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By cyrena, March 3, 2008 at 5:45 am Link to this comment

Now Douglas…

Don’t do this association thing between Obama and lilmamzer, just because she happens to support him.

That would be no different than blaming Obama for the fact that Farrakhan supports him. Now, I wonder if Farrakhan and Lilmamzer should get together and sponsor a rally.

What a hoot that would be.

Nevermind…NOT a good idea. Support from either of them, is something he could do without. But hey…it’s allegedly a free country.

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By cyrena, March 2, 2008 at 9:49 pm Link to this comment

Howard,

As brewerstroupe has reminded us in another post, the alleged ‘attacks’ by Hamas, or…more specifically, the rocket firings by Hamas, have been WITHIN occupied territory.

I’ll make that clearer, the rockets are fired FROM occupied territory, and strike only WITHIN occupied territory. In short, there would be ZERO Israeli casualties, if Israelis were not in the process of committing a crime.

It is very difficult, (no - IMPOSSIBLE) to find for any criminal who is injured or killed in the process of perpetrating a crime.

Again, if I break into your home, and injure you or your family members, and attempt to steal your stuff, and you manage to injure or kill me in the process of my illegal criminal spree, no reasonable person, or court of law, is going to feel sorry for me. It’s the opposite of reason, (not to mention the law) to expect that.

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By cyrena, March 2, 2008 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

I had to chuckle at this one. smile

“Some difficulty” indeed…

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By PatrickHenry, March 2, 2008 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

He’s/She’s like the zionist welcome wagon.

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By Ostrogoth, March 2, 2008 at 2:26 am Link to this comment

Israel practices apartheid both within Israel proper as well as in Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. Israel’s racist discrimination against Israeli Arabs within Israel is documented by Mearsheimer and Walt in “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy:” 

“In addition to Israel’s commitment to maintaining its Jewish identity and its refusal to grant de jure equality for non-Jews, Israel’s 1.36 million Arabs are de facto treated as second-class citizens. An Israeli government commission found in 2003, for example, that Israel behaves in a ‘neglectful and discriminatory’ manner toward them. Indeed, there is widespread support among Israeli Jews for this unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs.” p. 88

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 2, 2008 at 2:18 am Link to this comment

Uhh, there is a God, Fadel Abdallah…. but there is no justice from man…..

Israeli minister threatens “holocaust” as public demand ceasefire talks - Israeli officials began damage limitation efforts after the country’s deputy defense minister Matan Vilnai threatened Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip with a “holocaust.” http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9354.shtml

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By Gregorio, March 2, 2008 at 2:10 am Link to this comment

Here is a guy who is always bitching about this site while at the same time putting up more posts on it than anyone else, posts that are so distorted in their presentation of the facts that even Karl (Turdblossom) Rove would be envious.  Never once is he even slightly skeptical of the prevarications that characterize Zionist propaganda, choosing instead to bleat about the relatively few unfortunate deaths of those who have side with the forces of apartheid and genocide whose justification for such activity is based upon pathetic religiosity.  Hey, jackass, if you don’t like it here, go somewhere else where the truth is not the coin of the realm, someplace like ZionistsRuleasChosenPeople.com or IfYourNotJewishYouDie.org, or, better still, ZionistsCanDoNoWrongandIfYouDisagreethenYou’reAntisemitic.fuckoff

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By brewerstroupe, March 2, 2008 at 2:08 am Link to this comment

Yes, There is Apartheid in Israel
By SHULAMIT ALONI
“On one occasion I witnessed such an encounter between a driver and a soldier who was taking down the details before confiscating the vehicle and sending its owner away. “Why?” I asked the soldier. “It’s an order—this is a Jews-only road”, he replied. I inquired as to where was the sign indicating this fact and instructing [other] drivers not to use it. His answer was nothing short of amazing. “It is his responsibility to know it, and besides, what do you want us to do, put up a sign here and let some antisemitic reporter or journalist take a photo so he that can show the world that Apartheid exists here?”

Shulamit Aloni is the former Education Minister of Israel. She has been awarded both the Israel Prize and the Emil Grunzweig Human Rights Award by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel

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By Gregorio, March 2, 2008 at 1:54 am Link to this comment

Hey, Jackass, genocide is genocide regardless of left or right blogosphere positioning.  Go back and read the history.  During the alleged ‘Arab war of annihilation” it was the Israelis who slaughtered the Palestinians and drove them from their homes.  Even Israeli historians have documented this.  There is no historic Jewish homeland.  The arrangement was a result of the Balfour Agreement, and did not precede the 20th century.  It is not hatred that drives people to revulsion and contempt for homunculi like yourself, but instead dedication to truth and justice.  You’re pathetic and give Jews a bad name.  Your prolific postings suggest you need counseling, in view of their lack of historical substantiation.  You shouldn’t attribute to that bugbear antisemitism the contempt people have for half-wits like yourself.  Take your paycheck from AIPAC and pound it up your ass.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 2, 2008 at 1:53 am Link to this comment

Hitler ‘showed them the way’, Gregorio….. but then, didn’t he and the Nazis learn it from the bible’s ‘old testament’ history of the bloodthirsty Jews anyway?

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By Gregorio, March 2, 2008 at 1:41 am Link to this comment

Hey, I’m with lilmamzer on this one.  Jews have permission from God to kill lesser people with impugnity after stealing their land, even if the Jews are from Russia or Armenia.  They are the chosen people, and have a god-given right to conquer and subjugate people because what Hitler did.  They’re special and not held to standards of decency they expect of others.  Palestinian patriots hide behind civilians because they are stupid.  The civilians are the actual targets.  If all the agitators were killed then how could the Israelis justify killing civilians?  It’s all their fault as long as ‘they’ are not Israeli.

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By Gregorio, March 2, 2008 at 1:21 am Link to this comment

Let’s look at the casualties.  In the last 12 years, seven Israeli deaths from Gaza rockets, and close to 3000 Palestinian deaths from Israeli rocketing of Gaza.  The Israeli deaths were the result of the cowardly hiding amongst the civilian populace by the much-vaunted IDF.  With almost 2000 Palestinian women and children killed by IDF weaponry (saying nothing about the living conditions these people are forced to live in, having had their land expropriated by sanctimonious settlers so that they must be herded into giant detention centers), it is truly had to understand how lilmamzer could proffer the distortions he does that seem to be independent of the facts.  But, hey, what can you expect from a member of AIPAC?  He’s one of the chosen people.  That means that, for him, anything goes as long as biblical delusions are maintained.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 1, 2008 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment

Ms. Tzipi Livni, Israel’s foreign minister, has already called on Ehud Olmert to resign the post of prime minister last year and said she would seek to take over as leader of the Kadima party. Perhaps when the boys’ club is finally removed….......??? http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7758E98D-C4BB-4 FE2-A767-B86202F524DA.htm

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 1, 2008 at 11:03 pm Link to this comment

Iran’s Jews - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngttxIzXRsE

“Anti-semitism has never been the general policy of the Iranian government” explains Maurice Mottamed, the country’s sole Jewish MP….. most of the time Iranian Jews are “comfortably doing everything they want to do here. We can perform all our religious celebrations.” This is an image very much at odds with fashionable Western opinion.

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By Howard, March 1, 2008 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment

Unlike all the Arab country’s, Jews and Arabs live and are citizens in Israel.  There are Arab physicians, nurses, teachers, and members of the Knesset, throughout Israel. There is even a cabinet member who is an Arab.

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By Ostrogoth, March 1, 2008 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

I can’t believe how lilmamzer and Howard take over these threads in an attempt to defend Israeli crimes against humanity. As long as Israel terrorizes Palestinians and refuses to allow Palestinian refugees the right of return, Palestinians have no choice but to fight back. Regime change in Israel is the only way to stop Israeli apartheid, and the way to bring it about it is to stop giving them all the high tech weaponry and billions of US tax dollars every year.

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By brewerstroupe, March 1, 2008 at 8:09 pm Link to this comment

I suspected that particular direct question might present some difficulty

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By Fadel Abdallah, March 1, 2008 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

Inta ibn sharmutah; ibn qahbah!

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

By brewerstroupe, March 1 at 3:49 pm

Question for you lilmamzer.

Where are Isrel’s borders?

The real (and rhetorical) question is: what do you want them to be?

No need to answer that one.

Your support of the Hamas genocidal war against the Jews is more than enough to answer any such questions.

GAZA DELENDA EST

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

final thought before dinner:

Your fatuous list of corrupted organizations in no way gives you or the Hamas cause you support any moral standing.

GAZA DELENDA EST

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

“The targeting of schools, clinics and ministries is a war crime.”

Actually, the use of these places by Hamas as shields from IDF resistance to Hamas is a war crime. You can look that up. smile

For Israel not to act would be morally indefensible, given the incessant artillery rocket barrage aimed at her civilian population.

I say, GO IDF and destroy the Hamas ability to rain terror down on your cities and towns.

GAZA DELENDA EST

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

Likewise, if I cited The Weekly Standard or The Jerusalem Post, you would complain of pro-Zionist bias and wouldn’t even consider the merits of any arguments contained therein. You probably wouldn’t even read them.

Well, bias exists in all media and from all sources, even (and especially) nominally altruistic organizations such as Amnesty International, the UN, Human Rights Watch and other bodies that have become polluted and corrupted by (most often but not always left-wing politics and ideology. All the sources you list above are also vehicles used to promote pokitical agendas. They have badly impaired (or none, in some cases) credibility and reputation for fairness and accuracy, especially regarding Israel’s right to defend herself from avowedly genocidal jihadi Arab terror entities.

Cite and quote all you want - it will only serve you as a token-reflexive gesture towards your own bigoted far-left comrades, and I care not a whit.

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By brewerstroupe, March 1, 2008 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

Question for you lilmamzer.

Where are Isrel’s borders?

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By brewerstroupe, March 1, 2008 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

Some more “numbers and specious reporting from questionable sources”

“This bombardment is part of ongoing attacks on the Gaza Strip: over the last 24 hours, there have been over 15 people killed (including at least three children) over 30 people injured (including several children) in over 25 Israeli air strikes and artillery strikes. One of the artillery strikes hit a crowd of children playing football near a wedding hall in the Jabalia refugee camp, killing two children and injuring five.

Israel’s aerial bombing in the centre of a densely-populated city is an illegal means of warfare; it is clear that these attacks will directly cause civilian casualties and damage to civilian property and infrastructure. The targeting of schools, clinics and ministries is a war crime.”
Signatories:


ACSUR Las Segovias (Spain)
Al-Mezan Centre for Human Rights (Palestine)
Alternative Information Centre (Israel/Palestine)
Campaign for the Children of Palestine - CCP (Japan)
CISS – Cooperazione Internazionale Sud Sud (Italy)
Centro Regionale d’Intervento per la Cooperazione - C.R.I.C. (Italy)
Diakonia Regional Middle East Office (Sweden)
European Jews for a Just Peace Germany
Gisha – Legal Center for Freedom of Movement (Israel)
GVC - Gruppo di Volontariato Civile (Italy)
Japan International Volunteer Center (JVC)
Kvinna till Kvinna Foundation (Sweden)
MAP-UK (United Kingdom)
medico international e.V. (Germany)
medico international Schweiz (Switzerland)
Mundubat (Spain)
Norwegian People’s Aid – Palestine
Norwegian Refugee Council
Olive Oil Campaign / Kampagne Olivenöl (Switzerland)
Palestinian Medical Relief Society – PMRS (Palestine)
The Palestine Solidarity Association of Sweden
Physicians for Human Rights – Israel
Terre des Hommes Italy
Women Against Violence (Israel)
Zochrot (Israel)

http://www.alternativenews.org/news/english/joint-statement-against-the-israeli-airstrikes-on-the-gaza-strip-20080301.html

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

War is hell - the Arabs of Gaza should stop making war then, don’t you think?

Where is your compassion for the innocent Israeli civilian victims of intentional Arab genocidal terror? Where are your graphic descriptions of the horrors the innocent Israeli civilian victims of intentional Arab genocidal terror have had to suffer for generations now???? Where are your descriptions of the Israeli boy who lost his leg in Sderot last week for no reason other than that he is a Jew living in his homeland?

You are a moral hypocrite, nefertiti, as shallow as a wet beach at high tide.

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 4:27 pm Link to this comment

correction - should read thusly:

“No feeling human wouldn’t mourn the deaths of innocents”

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

correction - should read thusly:

“No feeling human <b>wouldn’t<b> mourn the deaths of innocents”

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

No feeling human would mourn the deaths of innocents, but the people of Israel deserve the right to resist the Hamas terror campaign against their children. What Hamas does is use the civilian population as shields. That is what makes Hamas and theior Gazan Arab supporters doubly guilty of war crimes: firstly for initiating and perpetuating massive artillery riocket barrages aimed specifically at Israeli towns and population centers, and secondly for billeting, firing rockets, smuggling weapons, and trying to draw IDF fire amongst the general Gazan Arab population. That in itself is a war crime.

I mourn the deaths of innocent civlians on both sides of this Arab terror war against the Jews, but the responsibility for these deaths lies solely with the Arabs of gaza for electing Hamas in the first place, and now failing to remove them from power.

Shame on you nefertiti for voicing support for genocidal jihadi murderers. That is truly disgusting behavior.

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

The Gazan Arabs never stopped trying to kill Israelis.

THAT is the reason Israel has had to enforce blockades of sea and air access.

You have the causal relationship precisely backwards, and you do that out of willfull ignorance. If you have read and understood the Hamas Charter, you would know why they do what they do. Absent Israel’s justified attempts to prevent arms smuggling, the deaths of Israeli civilinas from intentional Arab attacks against them would be orders of magnitude higher. Israel is morally obligated to protect her citizens, even if it means regrettable and unintentional civian deaths when the IDF resists the Hamas terror entity.

Prison Shmrison - Y A W N

And by the way, Israel is a sovereign nation, nefertiti, and has zero obligation to open her borders to any person, group, or entity posing a security risk. You’d have to be both blind AND retarded not to understand how that applies to the Arabs of Gaza. The citizens of Israel demand as much from their government, and will be held accountable by them for failing to protect them as is the case in any true democracy smile

Will Hamas be held accountable by the Arabs of Gaza for perpetuating the Jihadi terror war against Israeli civilians and for the terrible price they must bear for the unavoidable resistance the Israelis will show?

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By Howard, March 1, 2008 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment

Israel left Gaza.  Hamas, which took it over has declared war on Israel.  For 2 years missles have come over daily. Hamas cannot run Gaza.

Now is time to turn it over to Egypt. The Gazans were ruled by Egypt from 1948 thru 1967.  They are kinsmen and brothers.

How to achieve Gaza’s transfer?

Robert Satloff of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy suggests that Jerusalem announce three steps: “a date certain for the severing of Israel’s provision of water, electricity and trade access, free entry for replacement services through Egypt, and an invitation for international support to link Gaza to Egyptian grids.”

Giora Eiland, a former Israeli national security adviser, would also detach Gaza from its customs union with Israel and the West Bank.

These Israeli initiatives would force the Egyptian hand. Sure, the Egyptians, with help from Fatah and even Hamas, will try to resurrect the border and put the onus back on Israel. But in the end, Arab solidarity demands that Egyptian “brothers” fill in for the Israeli enemy. Once Jerusalem cuts supplies, Cairo has no choice but to furnish them. Economic dependence would then further involve Egypt, which has further consequences. It:

Revives the old idea of resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict via a three-way partition by Egypt, Israel, and Jordan.

Permits Hamas to connect with its parent organization, the Muslim Brethren. Indeed, Egyptian security forces have already arrested at least 12 armed Hamas members in Egypt and other Gazans with suicide belts. Controlling Islamist violence out of Gaza will become an Egyptian priority - but Mubarak has coped with Islamists throughout his 27-year presidency and he can deal with this new challenge in ways that Israel cannot.

Limits the freedom for Hamas and Islamic Jihad to attack Israel. Yes, Egyptians want rockets falling on Sderot, but Cairo knows that their continuation invites Israeli reprisals and possibly a full-scale war.

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By Howard, March 1, 2008 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Your are correct….they are in their own world. Israeli children and innocent people there are beneath their radar screens !  Don’t count and the double-standard grows taller with each incident.

Amazing.  And they expect Israel to give them the West Bank ??

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By nefertiti, March 1, 2008 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

lilmazmer
The israelis have never Left Gaza . ONLY the settlers have .
the israelis are ALL around Gaza like a pack of hungry wolves ALL the time , the tanks , the Gunships facing Gaza and shooting Palestinian fishermen (many stories onGoogle ) who are trying to make a living . the Gates leading to Gaza are LOCKED the palestinians can not import or even sell their own produce , israel wont allow them their Due taxes, they wont allow Arab banks to give donations (on red list if they do ) EU also stopped the donations ,  Do you call call that A free gaza ? you must be joking . this is a Big prison , at least in Prison you get 3 free meals a day , and plenty of water for a shower and you get electricity too .

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By nefertiti, March 1, 2008 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment

Howard ,
19 CHILDREN were killed today by the IOF , one of them was 5months old killed yesterday , when the ceiling of his house fell (F16 shot a missile )  You should look at the face of this baby and repeat again that the IOF does not target children , you will feel silly I guarantee it .

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By nefertiti, March 1, 2008 at 2:53 pm Link to this comment

The Number has gone up to 56 dead since TODAY( Dawn time. )and almost 200 injured many fatal injuries and amputated arms and legs .

yesterday 5 were killed in the westbank where NO ROCKETS are being launched from , and the Fatah fighters in the westbank have given up their arms like ABBAS asked .

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Israel ethnically-self-cleansed Gaza - a disgusting spectacle, actually - of Jews forcibly uprooting other Jews from their homes - so that Arabs could finally have what they desired in Gaza - a homogenous, Jew-free Islamic jihadi terror entity.

After the Arabs destroyed the greenhouses, and then began the incessant rocket artillery barrage against Israeli border towns, the results of the “end the occupation” experiment are in, and it is three words:

GAZA DELENDA EST

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

You know, the “imagine if Hamas was firing missiles into Detroit” analogy will never click with the group-think far-left bigoted assholes on this website. They will never get it because the Jews are somehow (and axiomatically) undeserving of living free from the threat of terror as a free people in their sovereign and independent homeland. There is a huge double-standard on the far-left; Jews will never merit that which any other nation is allowed to have. That’s bigotry in its purest and most distilled form, and it’s all <strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig.

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

GAZA DELENDA EST - and too bad you won’t be there when it happens. There are few more deserving of sharing in that fate than you, Chalmers.

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By lilmamzer, March 1, 2008 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

Curious how, in all this poster’s obsessive citing of numbers and specious reporting from questionable sources, the lives and safety of Jewish Israeli civilians never count for anything. Was the father of four children, himself a college student, who was murdered by a Hamas rocket two days ago worth mentioning? His crime was…..what? Existing as a Jew free in his own soveeign homeland? And the boy who lost his leg the week earlier? What was his crime?

Gazan Arab children died because Hamas maintains a daily bombardment of Israeli cities and towns and Israel has no option other than to act to defend her citizens from terrorist fire. The fault lies solely with Hamas and those Gazan Arabs supporting it.

The real question is, why does Hamas operate tactically and strategically from amongst the civilan population (which itself bears a huge responsibilty for electing Hamas in the first place).

The obvious answer is the PR benefit of creating “martyrs”. The one-sided article quoted above is a particularly wretched example. Reading that one would think the Jews have no right to defend themselves, that Hamas is justified in sending thousands of rockets into Israeli cities, and now escalating with the use of longer-range and bigger-payload Iranian-produced and supplied Grad rockets.

Here’s what Hamas is doing right now, whilst the rockets fly into Israel:

~  Their rank and file have taken over an estimated 3,000 to 4,000 civilian homes around Gaza City. Each home is provisioned with sufficient ammo, water and food for three weeks’ combat.

~  All Hamas operatives have dumped their cell phones and all means of communication which could betray their whereabouts. Orders and messages are carried by courier, usually children.

~  Thousands of missiles and rockets of different types are stocked in private homes and schools inside Gaza City and its refugee camps to escape Israeli attacks. This stratagem allows Hamas to calibrate its missile barrages on Israeli civilians according to the intensity of Israeli strikes against them.

The incessant barrage of Kassams and Katyushas and Grad rockets are inthemselves both acts of war and war crimes as they are aimed at and intended for civilian targets.

But even that pales in comparison to the use of the Gazan Arab civilian population as veritable human shields.

Any civilan death is regrettable, but Hamas leaves the IDF with no choice.

I support the IDF and wish them a speedy victory. Let this be the time Hamas is routed.

Absent the forebearance of Hamas itself or the people of Gaza removing the terrorist entity from power: GAZA DELENDA EST

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By brewerstroupe, March 1, 2008 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

MIDEAST: Israel Kills Some More Children

GAZA CITY, Mar 1 (IPS) - Tamer was nine, and no child soldier. He did not live in the area from where home-made rockets are launched into Israeli territory. The day he was killed, he was at least two kilometres from the place Israeli troops had entered Gaza, and met with return fire by Palestinian resistance.

His tragedy was that the family home was near Deir al-Balah in the middle of the Gaza Strip, close to the area the Israelis have set up as their Kussfim base.

“We were all inside the house when shooting started,” Tamer’s aunt Etaf tells IPS. “It was right after members of the Palestinian resistance stopped shooting at Israeli troops,” she said, pointing towards the scene of those clashes a couple of kilometres away. But the Israelis marched into this area as well, hardly for the first time.

Members of the family decided to crawl out into the rain after a bullet hit a gas cylinder, Etaf said. “But Israeli soldiers continued to fire on us from a tank and Hummer military jeep.” After some time, seeing that the gas cylinder had not exploded, Etaf said she crawled back into the house. Tamer followed, but never made it. “I saw Tamer shot, with a bullet in his head.”

“He wanted to become a doctor when he grew up,” says his mother Sabah Abu Shaar.

Like Tamer, other children are dying, and their mothers’ dreams with them. A six-month infant named Mohammed al-Bourai was killed when an Israeli missile crashed into the house Wednesday this week, moments after he’d been fed. The family house happens to be close to the offices of Gaza’s ministry of interior, and to the house of de facto Gaza Prime Minister Ismail Hanyieh.

The same day, three other Palestinian children were killed in an air strike. The following day, four Palestinian children were killed near the Jabaliya refugee camp while playing soccer. Two of the boys, all aged 7 to 14, were from the same family. A child’s body was found in eastern Gaza, a victim of Israeli shelling.

The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Human Affairs says in a Gaza fact sheet that 80 Palestinians were killed in January of this year, and 82 were injured. The January deaths included four children and five women. The Israeli casualties through the month were nine injuries from home-made rockets.

Just over the past three days, Israeli air strikes have killed at least 35 Palestinians, among them nine children. Many more are injured, and some are in critical condition.

Following Friday prayers, tens of thousands of Gazans came out on the streets in protest against the Israeli air strikes. Matan Vilnai, Israeli deputy defence minister, has said that Gaza faces a “holocaust” if the home-made rockets do not stop. Since May 2007, these rockets have killed one Israeli.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=41424

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By Howard, March 1, 2008 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment

Unlike the Hamas terrorists that shoot rockets and mortars at civilians indiscrimantely.  The IDF forces are noted for avoiding civilian casualties.  Any civilians hurt in Gaza are the Hamas gov’t's fault at putting their people at risk.  The militants shoot missles and then hide behind and among the civilian populations. For 2 years already. Eveyone knows Israel has been patient to the limit.

Hamas has worked hard to get this reaction from Israel. Have shot hundreds and hundreds of missiles into Israei towns for over 2 years. Every day. Only when Israel reacts to murderous fire does the world media and Pal publicists scream about it.  If the rockets and missiles stop firing into Israel there would be NO REACTION from the Israeli side.

Lets repeat it for the deaf.  Stop the missles into Detroit; I mean Sderot and adjacent towns and there would be no reaction.  (Imagine missles being shot from Canada and landing in Detroit.)Would not take but 2 hours and 15 minutes for the U.S. to react.

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By Douglas Chalmers, March 1, 2008 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

By lilmamzer, February 29: “Every candidate faces an opposition that will try to misrepresent his or her positions and beliefs…. Obama has the power to convince Jews that he is the better candidate, and not just on his support for Israel in her fight against genocidal Arab terrorism…”

If that is what you lot want, then no doubt Obama will support Israel’s genocide against Arab Christian and Moslem Palestinians, lilmamzer, in addition to his avowed intention to hunt down innocent villagers in rural Pakistan. As AIPAC demands, so the US government obeys. Why?

And anyone who carries a gun in Afghanistan who is not in uniform can soon expect the same, uhh? That should make identifying Al Qaeda fighters easier, eh? Never mind the innocent villagers there, either, uhh.

Well, Obama has this chance, now, today…... one way or the other…... to decide….....

Israel killed 46 Palestinians on Saturday….. At least 81 Palestinians have been killed since Wednesday in intense Israeli air strikes and ground raids in the tiny Hamas-controlled territory, home to 1.5 million people, bordering Israel, Egypt and the Mediterranean….

As many as two dozen civilians died in the fighting, including at least two babies and two other children…. Gaza Health Ministry official Dr. Moaiya Hassanain said 160 people were wounded and 14 were in critical condition…..

“We tell the world, watch and judge what’s happening, and judge who is committing ... terrorism,” said Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas….. The spike in violence came just days before Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was to arrive in the region on her latest peacekeeping mission…....

Israel launched air and ground operations in northern Gaza on Wednesday…. The Israeli military said it targeted at least 23 armed Palestinians, but it could not confirm that the targeted people were actually killed.

ALSO:  Abbas: Gaza attacks ‘a holocaust’ -  The latest attacks mark the fourth day of Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip…

The Palestinian president has accused Israel of “international terrorism”, saying its assault on Gaza constitutes “more than a holocaust”.....

Children killed - Rana el-Hindi from Save the Children, speaking from inside the Gaza Strip, told Al Jazeera children were suffering greatly from the Israeli bombardment. “In the last three days at least 19 children have been killed…. it’s a real concern for all organisations here,” she said….

Missile attacks - Those killed in Saturday’s attacks included at least eight civilians, four of them women, said Dr Muawiya Hassanein, head of Gaza’s emergency services…. “The Israeli army opens fire at everything in our area, including children and houses. There are injured children bleeding inside their house…”

Threat of invasion - There has been increasing domestic pressure in Israel to mount a full-scale invasion of the Gaza Strip. Ehud Barak, Israel’s defence minister, said on Thursday that “a major ground operation was real and tangible” and that Israel was “not afraid of it”......

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By Howard, February 29, 2008 at 9:09 pm Link to this comment

In 2005 Israel uprooted its people from Gaza who had been there for decades and pulled out all of its soldeirs.  What a mistake.  The Hamas leadership who is in total charge cannot rule. Disaster.  All Israel got in return for giving up ground was mortar and rockets shot into civilian towns indiscrimanetly.

And such a state has intensified the misery of the few genuinely freedom-seeking Palestinians by entrenching a tyrannical regime. The Palestinian Authority, a provisional governing body, has drained the lifeblood out of its citizens, trampled on their rights and, despite receiving billions in foreign aid, kept them in devastating poverty. Under the PA’s anarchic reign, rival “security forces” arbitrarily seize property, arrest and jail people without charge, and summarily execute dissidents.

The actual victors of the withdrawal are terrorists and their vast legions of reverent supporters in the Palestinian population. The motto emblazoned on banners throughout Gaza expresses their belief, borne out in practice, that violence works: “Gaza Today. The West Bank and Jerusalem Tomorrow.” The withdrawal has strengthened their resolve, not to achieve peace, but to destroy Israel. “We’re going to keep our weapons,” one terrorist told reporters, “because the battle with the enemy is a long one.” A cleric allied to Hamas, which has carried out umpteen suicide bombings in Israel, observed that “when we offer up our children [as ‘martyrs’], it is much better than choosing the road of humiliation and negotiations.”

As some have observed, with a populace and leadership so hospitable to terrorists, in time the Palestinian territories may succeed Taliban-ruled Afghanistan as a training ground for jihadists, lusting to murder not only in the streets of Jerusalem and Baghdad, but also London and New York

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

Coupla points.
Think you better read this again. Get a calculator if you can’t do the math in your head.
From the Israeli Central bureau of statistics:
The country of origin of about 1,200,000 Israelis is the Former Soviet Union (i.e., they were born in the Former Soviet Union or their father was born in the Former Soviet Union). About half a million Israelis are of Moroccan origin, about 245,000 Israelis are of Iraqi origin, 240,000 are of Romanian origin, and about 220,000 Israelis are of Polish origin.

“800,00 - 1 million Jews from Arab countries who were dispossessed”

Jews had been living for thousands of years in Arab countries in relative peace. By and large, they were well integrated into Muslim society. Jews held senior public positions in various Arab countries. For instance, the finance ministers of Iraq and of Egypt, Ishak Sasson and Jamas Sanua respectively, were both Jews. (See Shohat 1999.)

Then along came 1948 which you call the “Arab war of annihilation “

Unfortunately most modern Israeli historians, relying on recently declassified documents wouldn’t agree with your name for it:

“The “War of Independence” did not start on 15 May and in self-defence against the “aggression” of the Arab armies who invaded Israel. The war was started in early April by the Haganah, which launched its offensive according to “Plan Dalet”. Preparations for this war began immediately after World War II. (I refer you here to the activities of Ben-Gurion that were detailed in Michael Bar-Zohar’s book, Ben-Gurion: A Biography (New York: Delacorte Press, 1977).
The Zionist leadership was in tacit agreement with Emir Abdullah of Transjordan. According to this agreement, Palestine would be divided between the Jews and Abdullah. Abdullah would take that part of Palestine allotted to the Arabs west of the Jordan Valley according to UN Resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947. This part later became to be known as the West Bank. The rest of Palestine was to be left for the “Exclusive Jewish State”. (Documented and intriguing details of this agreement were presented in Avi Shlaim’s book, Collusion Across the Jordan: King Abdullah, The Zionist Movement, and the Partition of Palestine (New York: Columbia University Press, 1988).


The “nascent renewed establishment of Israel” had a little help:

In his book, The Gun and the Olive Branch, David Hirst describes in detail covert Israeli operations to scare Iraqi and Egyptian Jews into fleeing their homes for the “sanctuary” of Israel. In Iraq they did so by placing bombs in areas frequented by Iraqis who were Jewish, then starting whispering campaigns that scared people into emigrating.
In Egypt, the plan had two targets, one, to spur emigration of Egyptian Jews, and two, to damage nascent relations between the Free Officers group, led by Jamal Abdel Nasser, and the US and Britain. A series of bombings took place and a handful of Jewish residents, some Egyptian, some foreign, were arrested, tried and convicted. Two were hanged. This was the Lavon Affair - google it - the Israeli Minister responsible resigned when the truth came out.

Naeim Giladi, an Iraqi Jew who immigrated to Israel in the 40s wrote a book about it:
“I was disillusioned at what I found in the Promised Land, disillusioned at the institutionalized racism. The principal interest Israel had in Jews from Islamic countries was as a supply of cheap labor. Ben Gurion needed the “Oriental” Jews to farm the thousands of acres of land left by Palestinians who were driven out by Israeli forces in 1948”

Now I doubt that you are interested in reading anything that conflicts with your prejudice but for serious readers, here are the references to the above:

http://www.monitor.upeace.org/innerpg.cfm?id_article=296#_ftn1
http://www.redress.cc/zionism/mqumsiyeh20020119
http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html
http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-lendman090207.htm

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 7:36 pm Link to this comment

” That covers almost half the population.”

LMAO!!!!!!!

There are about 7 million Israelis, and about 6 million are Jews. Most of those are Sephardic.

Even though you can’t add or read a census, I’ll keep posting at you with this thought:

There were about 800,00 - 1 million Jews from Arab countries who were dispossessed and became refugees during the Arab war of annihilation against the nascent renewed establishment of Israel in 1948. Most of those made their way to israel and made new lives in a country of their own, free to live their lives as Jews without having to sufer the persecution of being a dhimmi minority in Muslim lands.

That will be just one of the many things about modern Israel’s 60th independence anniversary that jews and supporters of Israel around the world will celebrate, even as genocidal Arabs and sycophantic haters such as you continue the war against Jewish self-determination in their historic homeland.

What’s interesting to me is what accounts for your sick fixation on Israel - I call it a severe Jew-problem - perhaps you liked a Jewish woman but she rejected you? The Jewish kid in your class always got better grades? Don’t tell me - I really don’t give a rat’s ass what your reasons for spewing such antisemitic garbage is. Haters like you are a dime-a-dozen in the far-left blogosphere and it doesn’t matter anyway…...

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By Paolo, February 29, 2008 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment

Washington advised us to have friendship and commerce with all nations, but entangling alliances with none.

Both the left and right, R’s and D’s, in America have forsaken that sage advice. You can see the results in these pages, as Americans take sides in a conflict in which both sides routinely commit atrocities.

As a libertarian, I say: If you want to support either Israel or the Palestinians, you are free to go there and lend your assistance. Just don’t make the US taxpayer pay for your ill-advised adventure.

Of course, our constant meddling leads to understandable resentment, which leads to events like 9-11. No, they didn’t attack us because they hate our “freedom” (what’s left of it).

As Madison said, the quickest path to tyranny is war, in which the government assumes power over the entire citizenry.

Washington and the other Founders were far more intelligent than any of the bickering interventionists on this site.

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

jerusalem • Israeli soldiers used an 11-year-old Palestinian girl as a “human shield” during an operation against militants in the West Bank town of Nablus last week, an Israeli human rights group said yesterday.
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Gulf, Middle East & Africa&month=March2007&file=World_News2007030934413.xml

IDF Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Gabi Ashkenazi decided on Thursday evening to rebuke the commander of former West Bank Division, Brigadier General Yair Golan, and to freeze his promotion, due to the findings of a Military Police investigation launched following various reports of the use the ‘human shield procedure’
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3461591,00.html

I take it you don’t read the Israeli newspapers.

“Israel targets and kills Arab terrorists”

Which of the almost 1,000 Palestinian children, two thirds of whom where killed by sniper fire, was the terrorist?

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment

“Phony nunmbers, false allegations”

All of my posts are referenced.  Try posting a few references if you wish to dispute them - you are beginning to splutter, there’s a gob of spittle between your “n” and “m” keys.

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

“the majority of Israeli Jews are themsleves (or their children) dispossessed refugees from neighboring Arab countries”

From the Israeli Central bureau of statistics:
The country of origin of about 1,200,000 Israelis is the Former Soviet Union (i.e., they were born in the Former Soviet Union or their father was born in the Former Soviet Union). About half a million Israelis are of Moroccan origin, about 245,000 Israelis are of Iraqi origin, 240,000 are of Romanian origin, and about 220,000 Israelis are of Polish origin.

http://www.cbs.gov.il/hodaot2004/01_04_98e.htm#_ftn5

That covers almost half the population. Where did you get your figures or are you just bullshitting?

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

Phony nunmbers, false allegations, the inability to see any merit to the Zionist cause, and repeated comparisons of Israelis to Nazis do not an honest interlocutor make, to say the least.

Congratulations - you have crossed over into the vile territory of David Duke and Aryan Nations.

Keep posting - it makes you and <strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig look very bad indeed.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

No, you just cited a number. You spent zero time describing the horror of being hunted down as a matter of policy and killed by Arabs who want to destroy you, your family, everyone you know, and your nation. There’s a name for that and it’s called genocide. It’s part of the Hamas charter and they try and implement it every day with rockets, gunfire, and homicide-bombings.

And the numbers only tell the story that Israel targets and kills Arab terrorists who hide amongst the civilian Arabs in the hope that it will deter Israeli return fire. That’s called using the civilians of Gaza as human shields.

In the next few days you will see Israel finally start to take the gloves off and then you can come back and play yuor numbers game. I look forward to that. The numbers on the Arab side will be very high, and you can only blame the Arabs for that. Israel is morally obligated to seek out and kill those who target and kill her citizens.

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

One day I plan to write a thesis on Israeli Troll method of debate.

In reply to my posting referenced data on the relative casualty figures which show that Israel kills 10 times the number of civilians as do the Palestinians (that figure has risen to 40 times in recent months), lilmamzer posts:
“there are relatively few Arab civilian deats” (sic) and goes on to make this astonishing statement:
“the Hamas tactic of staying in densely populated urban areas”
Now anyone with the most cursory knowledge of this affair is aware that Israel has concentrated Palestine’s population into 11% of the land area that was once their country.

It seems that no amount of fact can deter a Zionist. Most would trace this method of debate to Goebbels but this is incorrect. It first appears in Machiavelli. Hitler referenced it in Mein Kampf when he quoted Schoepenhauer who called “the Jew”  “The Great Master of Lies.” One suspects that the fact the goyim (cattle) swallowed the line “a country without a people for a people without a country.” * encourages this kind of chutzpah.

Examples of it abound. The reason for the Apatheid wall for example is given as combating terrorism despite the fact that it is circumvented by an average 1,276 Palestinian workers each week. It also works in reverse. Zionists persecute any historian who questions the numbers of the holocaust yet deny the existence of the 726,000 Palestinians made refugees by their invasion.

I suppose it is only natural. Virtually all of the myths so fiercely defended by the likes of Howard and lilmamzer have been demolished by Israeli historians now. I notice that another one bit the dust just today. It seems that most European Jews are not connected by blood to the Holy land, according to Professor Shlomo Zand of Tel Aviv University.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959229.html

I suppose the only method left to Zionist Trolls is to stomp their feet and yell or perhaps follow the example of Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai who went as far as threatening the Palestinians with “shoah,” the Hebrew word for holocaust. Well at least they’re admitting it now. 

*in spite of the census that showed 1,300,000 Palestinians in the late thirties.

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By Howard, February 29, 2008 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

Israel is gone from Gaza. Yet Hamas has intensified its attacks on Israel. A mindset that loathes Israel more than it seeks its own freedom will not be remade by Israeli withdrawal or endless international funding and sympathy. A leadership inciting against Israel in its media, mosques and school system will not be rejected by the Palestinian public so long as much of that population is mired in a bigotry that inculcates permanent victimhood, refuses to recognize any shred of justice to Israel’s sovereign claims, and extols the virtues of violence and death.

What the Hamas-inspired murderous rocket fire across the Gaza border should long since have made plain to all is that even territory cleared of every last vestige of Israeli presence does not sate the appetite of the Islamists - who happen to constitute the parliamentary leadership freely elected by the Palestinian public

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 29, 2008 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

President Bush’s FY2009 budget request to Congress includes $2.55 billion in military aid to Israel, a 9% increase over actual spending in FY2007.  This increase in aid is the first installment of a ten-year agreement between Israel and the United States to increase military aid to Israel by 25%, totaling $30 billion over the next decade. This is only gift money for Israeli weapons of mass destruction and not to mention the many billions more for other purposes.

This is your and mine taxpayer’s money at work to kill Palestinian children perpetually. And naive Americans will continue to ask, “why so many people in the Arab and Muslim world hate the U.S.A.?!

For the U.S. to improve its image and be seen, at least, neutral in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, military aid to Israel must be suspended until the occupation ends. Military aid allows Israel to avoid making serious efforts to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as well as other conflicts with its other neighbors.  It enables the occupation, contributes to the devastation of Palestinian society and fosters the increasing militarization of both the Israeli society and the societies in the area. If this is not done for the sake of saving Palestinian lives, it must be done for the sake of saving Israel from its destructive path!

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By jostaley, February 29, 2008 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It seems to me that both sides in conflict have acted badly.  Despite all the hyperbole one sees here, neither side is free of responsibility and both sides have suffered.  I am not going to pretend to know enough about the history of Israel and Palestine to make some definitive statement about the ultimate rights or wrongs of the conflict, and I am not sure there would be one.  It seems to me that this conflict rests on a foundation of human pain and suffering that stretches back long before the country of Israel.  This is the legacy of hundreds of years of prejudices and wrongs.

What I do know is that at this time it is Israel who holds the power (literally and figuratively) in the situation.  The people of the Gaza strip are literally imprisoned behind walls.  That kind of situation never makes for a population that is at ease.  It causes serious anxiety which leads to acts (which, yes, are wrong) such as launching homemade rockets.  In my view the violence of the Palestinians comes not from a hatred of Jews, but from a feeling of desperation, of having one’s back to the wall.  From a larger standpoint their efforts seem futile and self defeating, but that standpoint doesn’t take into account how it feels to be a Palestinian.  From the perspective of feeling, their fighting is no more illogical than a mouse hopelessly struggling against a cat.  This conflict is driven by feelings and fear. 

Ironically, the Israelis are driven by the same fear handed down from the generation that lived through WWII.  The Israelis are essentially a people suffering from PTSD.  Every rocket launch and suicide bomb ignites those deep seated fears in the collective consciousness of the Israeli people.  Once ignited those fears lead to the usual response, which to the outside observer seem over the top and often unnecessary. 

So we have two traumatized people repeating the same thing over and over again.  Both have acted out of deep seated fear, and both have suffered and caused suffering.  Both can make efforts to really stop this conflict.  However, Israel has the most power right now and can do more to end this conflict.  It will take a compromise and a step down of intensity from both sides, but Israel can create a humane situation in the Gaza strip, they can choose to at least do that.  The more they can take the high road, the less justifiable Palestinian rocket attacks will appear.  The Palestinians can stop launching the rockets, but they will still be an oppressed people.  I think Israel has to take the first step to really change the situation by letting Palestinians have sovereignty and freedom from outside oppression.  It seems like the Israeli people are starting to understand this, but the Israeli government haven’t yet caught on.

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

“When will you spend some time describing the horrors of Israeli victims of Arab terror”

I just did:

119 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 982 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

Interesting that these Israeli children are victims of rockets that, as you point out, are capable of being fired at targets no smaller than a town and most Palestinian children fall victim to sniper fire.

Get a grip. The numbers tell the story.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Gruesome details, yes, but your one-sided descriptions of the casualties of war does not do anything to advance a just peace. When will you spend some time describing the horrors of Israeli victims of Arab terror?

You might open your eyes and see that were the Arabs to stop their incessant terror war, the Israelis would have no reason to fire back.

In the meantime, the Israeli government is morally obligated to use military force to defend her citizens from Arab terror. i wish it weren’t necessary, but the Jews of Israel will never lay down and commit national suicide, nor can you ask them to.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

“What right do these European Jews have to Palestine? “

Did you know that the majority of Israeli Jews are themsleves (or their children) dispossessed refugees from neighboring Arab countries who oppressed and victimized them for no reason other than that they dared to be a Jewish minority in an Arab Muslim majority population?

So if the majority Sephardic Jews of Israel whose recent lineage comes from Arab countries say its OK for European Jews to come home to Israel, then that’s great. After all, it is their sovereign country. smile

Just telling it liek it is.

Inconvenient facts are routinely shouted down or flat-out denied in the typical far-left tradition here, but I’m happy just speaking truth to the local power.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment

“What right do these European Jews have to Palestine?”

They have the right to self-determination in their historic homeland as the indigenous people of the land. Palestine, you should know, means “Israel” and was so named by the Romans who invaded and occupied the sovereign Jewish kingdom in a failed attempt to remove and negate the essential Jewish bond with and character of the land. The Romans failed, the Greeks failed, the Crusaders failed, the Ottoman Turks failed, the British failed, and so will any leftover Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian or Lebanese Arab who usurps the name “Palestinian”, which really means Jew from Israel.
================

“They are nothing more than invaders and occupiers. Oppressors and torturers. They are not one bit better than Hitler.”

You are now describing the local Arabs who are in reality leftover Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian or Lebanese Arabs who usurp the name “Palestinian”. In World War II the local Arabs worked with Hitler, and carry on his evil dreams today.
====================

“Israel has the same aspirations for the Palestinians as the U.S. does for Iraq.
Either total occupation or total extinction.”

ooooooooooookay

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

” Sorry. Quassam rockets cannot be aimed. It is the IDF who have precision targeting technology.”

Sorry for the Israeli civilians murdered by the Arab missiles smashing into their homes? No, you have no compassion for innocent Jewish deaths. If you diod you would not celebrate the Hamas campaign of murder. And you would not deny the right of the israeli government to act to defend the innocent.

Kassam rockets are aimed. Why do you think they are pointed at Israeli towns and not the sea or empty desert? They are not as accurate as the Arabs (and perhaps you) would like. Is any act of murder or attempted murder by the Arabs of Gaza given a free pass by you?

How accurate would these rockets have to be before you said enough is enough? Or would you say that at all?

Yes, the IDF has precision targetting technology, and that is why there are relatively few Arab civilian deats, given the Hamas tactic of staying in densely populated urban areas. That Hamas tactic, though, does not disqualify or deny the right of the IDF to pursue and resist the Arab terrorists, no matter how much you try and argue otherwise.

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

“Two-thirds of the 621 children ... killed [by the Israelis] at checkpoints ... on the way to school, in their homes, died from small arms fire, directed in over half the cases to the head, neck and chest — the sniper’s wound”.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0607/S00005.htm

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

“Yes, because the Israeli deaths have been civilians specifically targeted for death by Arabs. “

Sorry. Quassam rockets cannot be aimed. It is the IDF who have precision targeting technology.

Next please.

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By P. T., February 29, 2008 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

Israel’s ruling class is not engaged in self-defense.  It could have a ceasefire.  However, it would rather kill Palestinian kids.  That is justified within your neo-Nazi ideological framework.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

“No nation on earth would have shown the restraint that Israel has” - lilmamzer

Yes, because the Israeli deaths have been civilians specifically targeted for death by Arabs.

And that is the difference.

More power to the IDF.

GAZA DELENDA EST

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

“Thanks for solving this problem.”

Problem? Jews are a problem because they exercise the right to self-determination in their own homeland AND have the audacity to defend themselves from genocidal Arabs?

How very liberal and progressive of you.

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment

119 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 982 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

1,031 Israelis and at least 4,528 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

6,845 Israelis and 31,815 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/injuries.html

Israel currently has 223 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/settlements.html

“No nation on earth would have shown the restraint that Israel has” - lilmamzer

“No country can stand for their civilian population to be indiscriminately bombed and killed” - Howard

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By brewerstroupe, February 29, 2008 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Hamas offers to restore ceasefire (15 June 2006)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5082820.stm

Ehud Olmert rejects Hamas’ offer of cease-fire in Gaza Strip (23/12/2007)
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/937196.html

Hamas Offers Israel Cease-Fire Bid, Report Says April 7, 2006
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/07/AR2006040700137.html 
Hamas offers to renew cease-fire with Israel June 16, 2006
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/15/hamas.ceasefire/index.html

Hamas touts 10-year ceasefire to break deadlock over Israel November 1 2006
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/nov/01/israel

Hamas offers Israel truce talks December 19, 2007
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1219/p99s01-duts.html

“Let no one be deluded. Hamas is bruising for a war” -Howard March 1 2008

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By boggs, February 29, 2008 at 1:39 pm Link to this comment

What right do these European Jews have to Palestine?
None at all. They are nothing more than invaders and occupiers. Oppressors and torturers. They are not one bit better than Hitler.
Israel has the same aspirations for the Palestinians as the U.S. does for Iraq.
Either total occupation or total extinction.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 11:51 am Link to this comment

“What the Hamas-inspired murderous rocket fire across the Gaza border should long since have made plain to all is that even territory cleared of every last vestige of Israeli presence does not sate the appetite of the Islamists

Hamas and Ostrogoth, PT, Cyrena, Wicher, Chalmers, and the rest of the bigots are all in agreement with Hamas on that issue.

That is why they are in fact terror-supporters and hypocrites of the highest order.

No matter. Israel will, in the end, win, and the terrorists will lose.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

“Why is <strike>lilmamzer</strike> Ostrogoth, the <strike>Zionist</strike> Arab terror-supporter smear artist and apologist for <strike>Israeli</strike> Arab ethnic cleansing, allowed to spread his venom on these forums? I hope it’s not OK to advocate the persecution of Jews on these threads. So why is it OK to support the persecution of <strike>Muslims</strike> Israeli civilians? Enough of this hypocrisy.”

There. Fixed that for you.

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By Howard, February 29, 2008 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

Israel is gone from Gaza. Yet Hamas has intensified its attacks on Israel. A mindset that loathes Israel more than it seeks its own freedom will not be remade by Israeli withdrawal or endless international funding and sympathy. A leadership inciting against Israel in its media, mosques and school system will not be rejected by the Palestinian public so long as much of that population is mired in a bigotry that inculcates permanent victimhood, refuses to recognize any shred of justice to Israel’s sovereign claims, and extols the virtues of violence and death.

  What the Hamas-inspired murderous rocket fire across the Gaza border should long since have made plain to all is that even territory cleared of every last vestige of Israeli presence does not sate the appetite of the Islamists - who happen to constitute the parliamentary leadership freely elected by the Palestinian public

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

“ruling class”

....and here it is - the obligatory neo-Marxist bullshit.  LOL

~good one~

The truth is that there is no justification for the thousands of rockets deliberatley aimed and fired at Israeli civilians from Gaza, and that Israel is not only justified but is morally obligated to defend her citizens from the “Palestinian” Arab murderers.

To deny the Israelis the right of self-defense cannot be justified even within your neo-Communist ideological framework.

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By P. T., February 29, 2008 at 11:31 am Link to this comment

The headline refers to a duel.  It is not much of a duel.  The Zionists are armed with loads of U.S. weapons.

According to polling, a large majority of Israelis favor a truce with Hamas, but Israel’s government is opposed (meaning the ruling class is opposed).

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

“So why is it OK to support the persecution of Muslims?”

LOL

In your mind, freedom from Arab terror = persecution of Muslims?

How dare the Israelis resist continous Arab terror attacks!!!

This is good stuff - keep it coming.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

Obama is the most articulate and polished orator, in my opinion, of the three remaining contenders.

He has the ability to speak with eloquence to establish his positions and bona fides regardless of what his opposition throws at him. I will be listening closely and I know millions of other voters who take their choices seriously will do the same.

Every candidate faces an opposition that will try to misrepresent his or her positions and beliefs - that’s just politics. Obama has the power to convince Jews that he is the better candidate, and not just on his support for Israel in her fight against genocidal Arab terrorism. You should give voters more credit than just voting as a reflexive bloc. Liberal Jews tend to be educated and critical thinkers. They will evaluate what they see and hear and read and make an informed decision in the voting booth.

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By Ostrogoth, February 29, 2008 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

As long as Israelis are engaged in terror and ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, they deserve whatever they get. Stop defending them.

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By dick, February 29, 2008 at 9:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In Palestine, some Jews want to kill all Muslims, and some Muslims want to kill all Jews, and they are close neighbors. Result? Endless mayhem. the USA, beginning with Truman, and all presidents since, made a fatal blunder in getting us involved. 60 years and no end in sight for the violence. What have we accomplished, and at what cost??

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By P. T., February 29, 2008 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

Lil,

You say you are here to have fun.  I am not really interested why you are here.  As long as you are here, you will have to take the education that comes with it, chickenhawk.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 9:44 am Link to this comment

The only difference between Abbas and Hamas is in the method of destroying Israel, not the goal.

When the “Palestinian” Arabs want to live in peace side by side with their Jewish neighboprs, they will create change from within and choose leaders to reflect their wishes.

As it stands now, there is nothing and nobody to negotiate with.

You don’t like roadblocks? Too fucking bad for you then, because roadblocks are legitimnate to contain “Palestinian” Arab gunmens’ movements.

You don’t like “Palestinian” Arab gunmen and terrorists in Israeli prisons? Too fucking bad for you. You might as well just state the obvious - that you don’t believe the sovereign nation of Israel has the right to provide safety and security for her own citizens, and that bombers and child-killers should just walk free to perpetrate the same crimes in the future.

I hope the IDF crushes Hamas completely in the next few days. I hope the IDF wipes out the entire Hamas terrorist leadership. It would be nice to see Haniyeh and Zahar stretched out on a Gaza street as a symbol of a defeated genocidal jihai ideology. Imagine Mussolini swinging from a streetlight in Rome after the Allied liberation, or Hitler dead in his bunker. We here in the US want to see Israel defend her citizens from those who would slaughter all of them given the means.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

War is hell, and the Arabs can’t stop bringing it on.

Israel is morally obligated to defend her citizens, and if the Hamas and the PA want to use civilian areas to plan attacks, smuggle, store, and fabricate weapons, and launch them, the responsibility is theirs for civilian deaths that may occur when Israel resists the Arab war of genocide.

If you had any soul, nefertiti, you would stand up and tell your Hamas heroes that enough is enough - you would tell them to stop trying to lill Israeli women and children indiscriminately in their homes, schools, streets…....

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 9:28 am Link to this comment

I’m only pointing out the nature of “Palestinian” Arab terror attacks (the many thousands) against Israeli civilians.

And that’s necessary here on <strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig because the lead-in for this thread makes no mention of the reason Israel has to go and fight in Gaza now. Of course it’s the BBC, but it needs to be said. Resistance to terror and genocide isn’t mentioned, and that’s disgraceful. Scheer, are you reading this????

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By Ostrogoth, February 29, 2008 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

Why is lilmamzer, the Zionist smear artist and apologist for Israeli ethnic cleansing, allowed to spread his venom on these forums? I hope it’s not OK to advocate the persecution of Jews on these threads. So why is it OK to support the persecution of Muslims? Enough of this hypocrisy.

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By nefertiti, February 29, 2008 at 9:12 am Link to this comment

if the Israelis were honest about peace talks with Abbas they would have given him something concrete to show to his people , some thousands of prisoners back , some dismantled settlements , a few hundreds Less checkpoints , a few gates open for business and exports of good , talk seriously about jerusalem . But so far we have seen nothing but HOT AIR lunches ,hugs , kisses , laughs and breakfasts in Aqaba and sharm sheikh while israelis are trying to buy time and build more settlments and make it too late to change anything . they are not stupid .

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By nefertiti, February 29, 2008 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

The latest victim of Israeli crimes is only 5 months old . the ceiling fell on him as the missile his his home. 3 teens were shot while playing football near their homes .

they also killed 4 in the westbank , the victims from fatah , they had already surrendered their arms as ABBAS asked and NO rockets are being used from the westbank. Homes are being destroyed in jerusalem . one Israeli official yesterday spoke of unleashing a HOLOCAUST on Gaza he is the deputy to the defense Minister . that s IsraHELL for you . and because it has strong powerful friends in the west nothing will happen to it , not even at the Spineless useless UN . whatever that is .

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By Blackspeare, February 29, 2008 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

Oops wrong post——here’s what it should have been….

Hamas’s strategy, with Hezbollah’s and Iran’s backing, is to derail the talks at any cost.  All I can say is “Mission Accomplished.”  It’s only a matter of time until the IDF launches a major ground offensive in Gaza and the world will go nuts as more civilians are killed.  Abbas will be glad to suspend the talks for he know or feels he may get a better deal with a new administration.  As for the Israel they will do what they do best——stonewall for they believe, like the Palestinians, that time is on their side——especially if McCain succeeds.  If Obama is the next president then the unknown factor comes into play.

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By Blackspeare, February 29, 2008 at 8:48 am Link to this comment

This is going to get real interesting when the RNC smear machine gets going after Obama is nominated.  There’s real trouble brewing in Israel and those Jews that have a connection with the “Promised Land” will be very careful in how they vote——better the poison you know than the poison you don’t!  I suspect that many liberal Jews who would normally vote for Obama will side with McCain just because of Israel and McCain’s military posture in the Middle East.  Couple this with an inherent anti-black vote and McCain could possibly pull this off!  Also, the choice of VP candidates for each will play an unusually large role this time.

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By The Big Raven, February 29, 2008 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What a silly title a duel is when two people agree too meet in a feild and shoot at each other with THE SAME GUNS USING RULES so no one else would get hurt.
The title tries to make a mockery of this israeli aggression against the Palistinians and peace.
More propaganda

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 7:14 am Link to this comment

from the International Herald Tribune - February 29, 2008

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/02/29/africa/ME-GEN-Israel-Palestinians.php
===========================
With city of 120,000 under rocket fire, Israel warns of Gaza invasion

ASHKELON, Israel: Israeli leaders warned Friday of an approaching conflagration in the Gaza Strip as Israel was forced to activate a rocket warning system to protect Ashkelon, a city of 120,000 people, from Palestinian rockets.

Ashkelon was hit by several Grad rockets fired from Gaza on Thursday, a sign of the widening scope of violence between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza. One hit an apartment building, slicing through the roof and three floors below, and another landed near a school, wounding a 17-year-old girl.

Located 17 kilometers (11 miles) from Gaza, Ashkelon had been sporadically targeted in the past but never suffered direct hits or significant damage.

“It will be sad, and difficult, but we have no other choice,” Matan Vilnai, Israel’s deputy defense mister, said Friday, referring to the large-scale military operation he said Israel was preparing to bring a halt to the rocket fire.

Israel does not intend to launch a major ground offensive in the next week or two, partly because the military prefers to wait for better weather, defense officials said. But the army has now completed its preparations and informed the government it’s ready to move immediately when the order is given, the officials said, speaking on customary condition of anonymity.

After Thursday’s rocket attacks on Ashkelon, Israel activated its “Code Red” rocket warning system there. The system picks up incoming rockets and sounds an alarm in the target area, giving residents time — a few dozen seconds, in Ashkelon’s case — to scramble for cover.

Until now, the Palestinian rocket squads have largely targeted Sderot, a small town near Gaza. Ashkelon, a major population center only 40 kilometers (25 miles) from Israel’s heart in Tel Aviv, was caught unprepared, its mayor said Friday.

“It’s a city of 120,000 people, with large facilities — a huge soccer stadium, and a basketball stadium, and a beach. No one is ready for this,” Roni Mehatzri told Israel Radio.

On Friday, dozens of soldiers in orange berets from the Israeli military’s Home Front Command arrived in Ashkelon and hung posters around the city instructing residents on what to do in case of a rocket attack.

Despite past rocket hits in Ashkelon, Israel hesitated to activate the “Code Red” system there because officials didn’t want to send 120,000 people running for shelter every time a rocket was launched in the direction of the city.

The army is now considering installing more radars near Ashkelon so that the system will be able to better analyze the course of an incoming rocket and warn only the residents of the target neighborhood, rather than the whole city, defense officials said.

The barrage of Iranian-made Grads directed at Ashkelon on Thursday came on the second day of a spike in violence in Gaza. On Wednesday morning, Israel killed five Hamas militants, including two rocket masterminds, in an airstrike on a minivan. Later in the day, a Palestinian rocket killed an Israeli civilian, a 47-year-old father of four, in the town of Sderot.

Hamas, an Islamic group with close ties to Iran, has ruled Gaza since coming to power in a violent takeover there in June, 2006.
=============================

I can’t imagine any other nation on earth that would tolerate such outrageous acts of terror as has Israel to this point. I wish the IDF a swift and crushing victory and peace and security for the citizens of Israel who have had to live under this Arab oppression for years.

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By Howard, February 29, 2008 at 7:02 am Link to this comment

Let no one be deluded. Hamas is bruising for a war, and Israel will oblige. Sooner rather than later. Katyusha rockets hit the city of Ashkelon, which dates to deep antiquity and is now home to 120,000 people. The attacks on Ashkelon signify that Hamas’ capacity now has longer range and greater accuracy. (This is a forewarning to the Israelis about what might happen if they were to hand over the West Bank to the Palestinians. After all, what guarantees could there be that Israel’s population centers - Jerusalem, Tel Aviv - will not be similarly exposed and endangered?)
  When the Israel Defense Forces enter Gaza, their goal will be to obliterate Hamas’ military strength. But this has been implanted among the civilian population in order to obstruct an Israeli retaliation. The Israelis will restrain themselves as much as they can. But the victims of the fighting will also include Palestinian civilians, who will have brought their tragedy on themselves. (New Republic)

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_spine/archive/2008/02/28/bringing-tragedy-upon-themselves.aspx

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 5:18 am Link to this comment

Anticipating the reactionary posts defending the Imam Chomsky, here goes excerpts from another thread:
========================================
Chomsky is a pop-culture icon of the far-left. 

He was (and may still be) a brilliant academic linguistics professor, but his bombastic screeds are neo-Marxist pablum.

His world-view is as simplistic as it is outmoded and discredited. And what’s worst of all is the equivocation mindset he helps perpetuate. Actually, it’s beyond equivocation. Reading his articles leaves one with the distasteful feeling of having heard an American citizen hold this country’s mortal enemies in higher esteem than his own. The good part is that he is a fringe character and will never be seen as anything more than that. As I’ve said before, he should stick to grading papers and stop embarrassing himself.

Chomsky writes as if the citizens of the United States and Israel have no moral collective right to defend themselves against enemies whose sole reason for existence is genocidal. That much is plain, and that’s more than enough to discredit him from serious consideration in any constructive discourse.

Has it never occurred to you why dead-end leftists like Chomsky will never move beyond the far-left fringe and be considered anything other than an ideological zealot espousing hugely unpopular viewpoints?? Here’s a hint: it’s not because the vast majority of Americans are stupid (how often I read that elitist argument here) and it’s not because the vast majority of Americans don’t have a fundamental sense of fairness and decency.

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By lilmamzer, February 29, 2008 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

Y A W N

More equivocating crap from the discredited fringe far-left icon Chomsky.

You fools keep regurgitating the same old spam. Never a new idea or shred of compassion. Just clinical, applied Marxist dogma by a linguist who should stick to grading student papers in his field rather embarrassing himself by sticking up for Islamic Jihadi murderers.

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By Howard, February 29, 2008 at 4:49 am Link to this comment

A more more accurate staement, for sure,  as he propounds large fairy tales for nine-year olds.  Never has proof of anything from his desk far far away from the mid-east.  It’s all in his demented mind.

A nut of the highest order. Only believed in part by headline readers.  No rational depth to the man. It’s called delusional thinking by any objective standard !

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By P. T., February 28, 2008 at 11:56 pm Link to this comment

To view, click http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/16669

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By lilmamzer, February 28, 2008 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

All the Arab money in the world couldn’t have bought the free propaganda the BBC has provided gratis over the years. They are a disgrace to the good people of the UK (Finsbury Park jihadis excepted, of course).

Got that, Abdallah?

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By Howard, February 28, 2008 at 9:29 pm Link to this comment

The only blood thirsty ones are the Hamas murderers. Sending rockets into Israel for the last 2 years ever since the Gaza areas was left to them by the departing Israelis.  Oh how they can govern. Instigate and send more mortars and rockets. Why build an infrastructure and get on with life.?  No, not them.  Rather end up hurting your own people.  They rule with an iron hand and could have stopped these rockets months ago.  Purposely have kept it up and finally killed civilians in Israel this week including the father of four. Purposely have been provoking Israel into this response.

Responsibilty falls completely onto the Hamas leaders. For the casulties on both sides. World is against them.

No country can stand for their civilian population to be indiscriminately bombed and killed.

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By lilmamzer, February 28, 2008 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

The BBC is more Arab than Fadel Abdallah.

And that means it’s full of shit.

Watch as Abdallah defends the rain of terror rockets falling on souther Israel for no reason other than that there are Jews living there to be murdered.

I think it’s time for Abdallah to move to Gaza and join his “Palestinian” Arab brothers in their genocidal war against the Jews.

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By lilmamzer, February 28, 2008 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

Hey Abdallah - catch a frickin’ clue - the “Palestnian” Arabs of Gaza have been lobbing thousands of missiles into Israeli civilian areas incesantly for the past four years with no intention other than to kill Israeli citizens.

THAT is why the IDF is forced to respond and defend the sovereign nation of Israel.

You know it’s true, and so does everyone else.

Israel unilaterally ethnically-cleansed every Jew from Gaza years ago but that doesn’t stop the “Palestinian” Arabs from trying to kill Jews wherever they think they can.

So, fuck them, Abdallah, they deserve the response from Israel.

I hope this time the IDF doesn’t stop until they crush the “Palestinian” Arab will to kill Jewish children in their homes and schools.

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 28, 2008 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

So, what’s new about Israel’s terrorist army? That’s what they have been doing for over 60 years. But I can assure those blood-thirsty Zionists that for every Palestinian child they kill with their cowardly   weapons of mass destruction, there will arise one hundred Palestinian relatives of that child who will want to avenge his / her killing at any cost. So for each terrorist operation the intruder Zionists carry out, they sure to prolong the cycle of violence for at least ten years. So I leave it for your math skills to calculate for how long the Israelis will live with insecurity as they are forced to swallow a taste of their own medicine.

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