You might as well say there is no such place as “the United States”, because it’s really Indian country.

There is such a place as “Israel”, and it’s an apartheid state that oppresses its non-Jewish population. That has to change. But the only way progress can be made is through non-violent struggle, like Mandela, like Gandhi. The Palestinians have no power other than the power of world opinion and the possiblilty of getting U.S. public opinion in particular on their side. Every rocket they fire puts this goal farther away.

Hamas has been offering a truce (hudna) to Israel since the day they were elected. Israel has completely ignored this offer. I think Obama should reinforce it by saying that if Hamas will observe such a truce, they will have a place at the negotiating table. In other words he would not allow Israel to go on ignoring the truce offer and compel them to negotiate in good faith. At the same time, he has pretty much made it clear that Hamas does not stop with the rockets, he cannot be responsible for what Israel will do to them.

By Tony Wicher, February 15: “I know that is not Obama’s current position. But I believe he has at least considered it. One thing we can all agree on is that Hamas must stop firing those stupid rockets…”

“President Obama should tell Hamas”, ha ha, TW? Why are African-Americans black? Answer: They are a “carbon copy” of white Americans, uhh. BO is already “president” in your fantasies too…...

You haven’t learnt a thing but which “state” do you see as a “one democratic state solution”? Oh, I know - you said “THE one democratic state”, eh. That couldn’t be Palestine even if they voted democratically for Hamas?

Can’t you people see that Palestine (there is no such place as ‘Israel’) is the same as the 1700-1800’s American Wild West? Its the same oppression by an invading “settler society” and the same justifications…. and the same violence.

The “Indians” must stop firing those stupid arrows, eh? But the French are on the same side too so the Israelis must be right…....

Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese-born Christian, has been condemned by the UJC for calling Barack Obama anti-Semitic.
By Ron Kampeas Published: 02/05/2008

WASHINGTON (JTA)—The United Jewish Communities condemned a speaker who told a Florida Jewish federation that U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) is an anti-Semite.
Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese-born Christian who heads an organization dedicated to fighting radical Islam, made the comments Monday night
to the Jewish Federation of Palm Beach County’s Lion of Judah, the women’s arm of the Jewish federation system.

“Barack Obama is an anti-Semite,” said Gabriel, who founded the nonprofit organization American Congress for Truth following the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. “No Jews should support him. Jews should vote for Hillary Clinton.”

The local federation disassociated itself from Gabriel’s comments. The UJC, the national arm of the federations, went further.

UJC President Howard Rieger told JTA that his organization “condemned such expressions in the strongest possible manner.”

“Barack Obama as a member of the U.S. Senate is a friend of the Jewish community in his home state of Illinois and in no way has done anything to deserve such an outrageous accusation,” Rieger said.

“Senator Obama is not an anti-Semite,” Rieger continued. “Coming at any time such a statement would be unacceptable. Coming as it does in this primary season it can only have one objective—to polarize the electorate.”

Obama, who is locked in a tight race with U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) for the Democratic presidential nomination, has been fending off smears falsely depicting him as a secret Muslim who refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance and efforts to raise questions about his commitment to Israel.

The UJC was among several Jewish organizations to sign on to a public letter condemning the e-mails about his religious background. Obama, whose father and stepfather were Muslims, identifies as a Christian and has been an active member of a church in Chicago for many years.

Rieger’s comments went further than a statement issued Tuesday by the Palm Beach County federation’s CEO, Jeffrey Klein.

“In an otherwise interesting presentation, guest speaker Brigitte Gabriel was asked her opinion of Sen. Barack Obama,” Klein’s statement said. “She proceeded to label Sen. Obama as an ‘anti-Semite.’ Ms. Gabriel’s opinions are hers alone and do not in any way represent the views of the Jewish Federation of Palm Beach County, which apologizes for any offense taken by those who heard her comments. The speaker’s statement was not made on behalf of the Federation. The Federation does not take positions supporting or opposing candidates for public office.”

In a phone interview, Klein told JTA that Gabriel’s comments were “deplorable” and “we made it clear we do not accept her views.”

However, he said, the federation’s statement would stand. A stronger statement was unlikely, he added, noting that “we have people with strong political views.”

Klein said Gabriel frequently speaks to Jewish groups and came with many references. One of the speaker topics listed on her Web site is “the threat of Islam to world peace and national security.”

Rieger said this was the first he had heard of Gabriel. Referring to her comments on Obama, he added, “I wish that people that express those views would simply go away.”

Re By lilmamzer, February 14 at 7:11 am #

People might also be interested in the following link:
http://elections.jta.org/2008/01/28/jta-podcast-obama-talks-with-jewish-reporters/

I am an advocate of the one democratic state solution to the conflict. I know that is not Obama’s current position. But I believe he has at least considered it. One thing we can all agree on is that Hamas must stop firing those stupid rockets. President Obama should tell Hamas to stop with the rockets, and if they do, they will have a seat at the negotiating table.

minor correction: the date of the linked op-ed above should read 02-13-08 - the link is till good, though

from The Miami Herald 02-15-08
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/story/417085.html
=================================
Hamas must end attacks on Israel
OUR OPINION: TERROR CAMPAIGN FROM GAZA WILL CREATE WIDER CONFLICT

If the terrorists of Hamas were firing lethal rockets into any country besides Israel, howls of outrage would rise from every corner of the world. The U.N. Security Council would meet around the clock and condemn, or at least warn, the aggressor. The Council of Europe would demand a cessation of hostilities. Even Moscow and Beijing might be moved to express concern. A crisis would erupt. But since it’s just Israel, none of this is happening. Ho-hum.

Israel is accustomed to this double standard. The U.N.‘s Human Rights Council routinely issues baseless condemnations against Israel while ignoring the actions of some of the world’s worst human rights violators. Justification is sought for suicide bombers, while every Israeli act of self-defense, like the construction of a security barrier separating the territories from Israel proper, is redefined into an act of aggression. It’s news only when the suffering is on the other side, as when tens of thousands of hungry Palestinians broke through a fence along the Egyptian border that was intended to isolate Gaza following the takeover by Hamas.

But the double standard is immoral and unacceptable, just as Hamas’ rocket attacks on Israel’s civilian communities like Sderot are increasingly intolerable and likely to spark a genuine crisis. A U.S. congressional resolution cosponsored by 68 members describes the damage in stark terms.

Since Israeli forces withdrew from Gaza in 2005, more than 4,000 rocket and mortar shells have been fired at Israel, 420 this year alone. Homes, buildings, roads and power lines have been destroyed. The number of wounded Israelis, terrorized civilians and traumatized children rises by the day.

Backed by Syria and Iran, Hamas is determined to prevent Israel from reaching a peace deal with Palestinians on the West Bank led by Mahmoud Abbas. Any such agreement would represent a rejection of Hamas and its terror methods. It would offer Palestinians a secure and peaceful future and propel Hamas into oblivion, which is why the terrorists continue to goad Israel.

Meanwhile, the world looks the other way, but Israelis can’t afford to. In a clear signal that Israel’s patience is exhausted, Defense Minister Ehud Barak this week ordered plans for a ground invasion of Gaza. That would clearly be a last resort, but what are the choices? The congressional resolution calls on all nations, ‘‘including Egypt,’’ to help stop the flow of arms and terrorists into Palestinian territories, but that will likely have little effect.

A better course would be for the United Nations and others with a stake in maintaining peace to pressure Hamas to end the attacks on Israel. All nations have a right to self-defense. When Israel exercises this right, as it eventually must, barring an end to attacks from Gaza, no one should be surprised.
————————
Barack Obama has echoed these opinions in his appearances before AIPAC and other pro-israel groups, as well as on his official campaign website:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/IsraelFactSheet.pdf

I’m looking forward to Obama fully articulaing his ideas for stopping the Arab war against the Jews as the campaign progresses. The far-left fringe as typified here at <strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig needs to hear this message if they have any hope of not fading into total irrelevance.

“Obama has said he will talk directly to our adversaries.”

What would you negotiate away to Hamas? What can one say to a maximalist, genocidal enemy whose codified, stated purpose is put into practice on a daily basis?

You are a fool, safely ensconced in your easy California lifestyle. You know nothing.

Re By lilmamzer, February 13 at 4:38 pm #
(762 comments total)

Obama has said he will talk directly to our adversaries. If we leave it people like you, one thing for sure: the only way there will ever be peace is when everybody is dead.

Well, its true, we cannot stop “free trade”...nor should we.

We might, however, stop using euphemisms.  What NAFTA really means has nothing to do with trading freely.  Free trade would be: i have something of value that you either cannot produce at all, or cannot do so efficiently…you have something of value that i cannot produce.  Let us find a fair price and trade these items.

NAFTA has equated to: gee, this really sucks to have to pay high labor costs; without tariffs we can move production overseas where labor costs are low and environmental standards are nonexistent, import the finished product, and make a tidy profit for the stockholders. (which means a big fat bonus for the boss) 

It has also meant being able to shovel our cheap, agricultural products onto developing markets.  Our corn exporting to Mexico is one of the fundamental factors behind the wave of immigration we’ve experienced from Mexico since NAFTA.

Some of this is changing, though, at least on the agricultural end.  Nobody wants our corn anymore.  Since 1996, corn exports to Europe have fallen by 90%, from 3.15M metric tons to 33,000 (barely enough to fill one container ship).  Even starving countries refuse our free food.  1996 was roughly the year that Monsanto’s GMO corn began being grown.

(Sideswipe, HRC has some shady connections with Monsanto, going so far as to call the developers of Agent Orange a “Democratic company”.)

” What I hope is that Obama will keep his pledge to talk to our adversaries, and sit down at the table for direct talks with Hamas without any preconditions. Then I think we will see some progress.”

Then you know nothing of Hamas and what they stand for, what their goals are, and how they mean to achieve them.

How you can remain so stunningly ignorant is the real question. I am convinced yours is a classic case of willful ignorance: you simply do not want to see the reality because that would destroy your fragile little house of cards.

Yes, “then we will see some real progress”. What a frickin’ hoot.

Cyrena:

Although Doug goes a bit over the line by using the word “exhorting,” here are Obama’s own words:

“When Israel is attacked, we must stand up for Israel’s legitimate right to defend itself…Last summer, Hezbollah attacked Israel. By using Lebanon as an outpost for terrorism, and innocent people as shields, Hezbollah has also engulfed that entire nation in violence and conflict, and threatened the fledgling movement for democracy there…We should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli Prime Minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States…When I am president, the United States will stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel…Those who have worked with me in Chicago in the state Legislature and now in the United States Senate will testify that I have not just talked the talk, I have walked the walk when it comes to Israel’s security. I think it is fundamental. I think it is something that is in the interests of the United States because of our special relationship, because Israel has not only established a democracy in the region but has been a stalwart ally of ours…The United States government and an Obama Presidency cannot ask Israel to take risks with respect to its security.”

You might also be interested in this:

http://www.beirutbeltway.com/beirutbeltway/2008/02/obama-lebanon-a.html

I can find no support for Doug’s statements re Obama vis-a-vis Syria or Hamas.

Peace.

“You might also take note of the growing community of Indian (read: subcontinental) Jews, from Cochin, Mumbai, Calcutta, and other places in India, many of whom have skin as black or blacker than any African native, let alone any Arab. I know a few, and they are beautiful people. “

I am here referring to those Indian Jews who have come home to new lives in Israel, of course.

You might also take note of the growing community of Indian (read: subcontinental) Jews, from Cochin, Mumbai, Calcutta, and other places in India, many of whom have skin as black or blacker than any African native, let alone any Arab. I know a few, and they are beautiful people.

“What you say is true for the most part and for Israel to save many Ethiopian black “Jews” is remarkable.  But it is lost in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. “

It’s only “lost” in the minds of those who view the “Palestinian” Arabs as the eternal victims and the Jews as the perpetual victimizers. In actual fact, the ethnic, racial, and religious make-up of Israel, and the complex dynamics of these components of Israeli society are very relevant to the core of the Israeli-Arab conflict. To deny that is foolish and can lead to no just solution for either side. One only has to look at the “Palestinian” Arab demands for Judenrein (read: ethnically-cleansed of Jewish inhabitants) chunks of territory that have been historically Jewish for millenia, while there are more than a million Arabs in Israel proper who are citizens and are not going anywhere. This cannot be “lost” in the context - it is the context.
==================

“Oh, by the way some of your replies fit your ID name——I wonder how many people who post here know what it really means?! “

A rose by any other name….....

And yes, I definitely am a little bastard. And an asshole at times, too. But only when I need to be

The hell with Israel, let’s worry about us first for a change!!!!!!!!

I forgot about the 13th tribe being black——how silly of me!

What you say is true for the most part and for Israel to save many Ethiopian black “Jews” is remarkable.  But it is lost in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  After 60 years of a protracted war the difference between the “good guys and the bad guys” becomes clouded and essentially turns into a propaganda exercise for the hearts and minds of the world at large.  And the Palestinian leadership is doing a rather good job while enriching themselves——but that’s another story.  It is interesting that the PLO has a larger management bureaucracy than the European Union——everyone needs a job!

Oh, by the way some of your replies fit your ID name——I wonder how many people who post here know what it really means?!

“As for Israel, many Black Americans look upon the Palestinians as “Black Arabs” and share their frustrations.”

And many actual Israeli Jews are blacker than any “Black Arab”. Those Israeli Jews whose parents or they themselves have emigrated to Israel from Ethiopia now suffer from the thousands of Palestinian Arab rockets that have bombarded the South of Israel, and many were injured in last week’s Palestinian Arab homicide bombing in Dimona. You might also acknowlege that the Gazan Arabs under Hamas are almost 100% ethnically and religiously homogeneous, while Israel has among the world’s most ethnically diverse populations. Many American blacks realize this and appreciate Israeli society for it’s diverse and thriving ethnic minorities and sub-culures.

George W. Bush’s aggressive capitalism has create a large underclass population in record time——way to go!  Barack Obama is now seen as a champion populist candidate by many.  He’s on his way and his choice of running mate will be quite important.  McCain and the Republican machine will be merciless.  McCain’s military record is stellar and Obama needs to counteract with a VP of similar stature which means Senator Jim Webb from Virginia and a good state to balance the ticket as they say.

Oh, one more thing watch out for Michele Obama she’s no slouch and will be quite active in the White House perhaps more so than Hillary was!

As for Israel, many Black Americans look upon the Palestinians as “Black Arabs” and share their frustrations.  Obama will surely seek to work out a two-state solution, but with a more even handed approached than we’ve ever seen.

Fasten your seat belts, the country’s in for quite a ride with Obama especially if the Democrats can extend their majority in Congress in the 2008 election.

Reading this piece from David Sirota, (published at Huffington’s Post) I realized that Obama is actually giving Americans our monies worth, and he’s just in the application/interview process for the job. As a former professor, he’s giving us more of the nuts and bolts of how NAFTA has affected us, AND what he’s planning to do to combat that.

But, he ALSO admits, that he isn’t going to ‘stand there and tell us’ that all of the components of free trade can or even should be stopped. I appreciate the reality, because of course he’s absolutely correct. It’s easy enough for the uninformed among us, (which is most of us, including me) to say –looking at the surface- that this free trade thing is the reason for all of our woes, and it must be entirely stopped. It can’t be. It’s a new world, and globalization is here whether we want it to be or not, because that’s the way it is.

What we can and should do, (and hopefully he’ll get to this in the coming lectures of the free seminar) is actually address what is wrong about it, and what is beneficial, and with a keen realization of the inevitability of the process. (globalization). TRADE itself, is as old as dirt, and we need it. It’s the provisions of it, and the disastrous effects that have occurred as a result, affecting everything from the environment to the entire global economy, that have caused the problems.  So, the whole thing has to be better organized. But, that means an extremely critical and extensive look at every component of it, and how that, dominos to affect some other component.

Anyway, it looks like Obama is up to the task, and when I hear specifics like this, I’m overwhelmingly impressed, and it actually DOES put hope in the change formula, because it means that the change can really happen. In short…he has a plan, and it’s a doable plan. YES!! It CAN in fact work.

Now in the next lecture, (he sure does a lot for such a busy dude) he might hopefully get to how the immigration issue can also be resolved the same way, since the immigration ‘problem’ is part of the same coin. It is economically based/forced immigration, (not just here, but globally) and any plan should try to encompass that as well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/smart-move-obama-goes-po_b_86443.html?view=print

Bravo Barack! I just really do love smart guys.

“Obama ‘Gets It’ On Israel - Oh, I see, so these diatribes of lilmamzer’s ARE from BO’s The Ring campaign then, huh???”

Yes, they are excerpted verbatim from Obama’s campaign website. I have linked to it.
Read it and weep, Chalmers.
==========================

“And ‘nice’ Mr. Obama who exhorted Israel to bomb and murder 1,300 or so Lebanese in their own country last year as well as attack Syria and to eliminate the democratically-elected Hamas in Palestine is also going to make “the bigot crowd” here on TruthDig fall into line behind our precious barking four-footed lilmamzer…...??!?! “

You and Cyrena are the Abbott & Costello of the tin-foil-hat brigade. Thanks for the laughs, Chalmers.

Chalmers,
I think you’re gonna need a lawyer soon. Matter of fact, you may already need one, and you’re so off into an ‘episode’ that you don’t even know it. You and Britney Spears could share the same facilities maybe, and that might get you off on an insanity plea. Take your latest for instance…

•  “And ‘nice’ Mr. Obama who exhorted Israel to bomb and murder 1,300 or so Lebanese in their own country last year as well as attack Syria and to eliminate the democratically-elected Hamas in Palestine…”

This is standard for you, but man oh man, you just go further and further with each lie and the fabrications become more and more outrageous. We all know what Israel did to Lebanon in the Summer of 2006. And, there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to suggest a single solitary Jr. Senator, in his first year in the Senate..He wasn’t even around when Israel was planning that attack.  He was only 6 months into the job when Israel did the attack, (or maybe I should say the latest attack, since Israel has attacked Lebanon at least 3 times in the past 12 or so years).

And YET, YOU claim, that Barack Obama, who nobody had much ever heard of, (outside of Illinois) prior to 2004, somehow EXHORTED Israel to do this. (He’s actually been to Israel ONE TIME in his life..2005 I think). How do you come up with these incredible lies, and actually are stupid enough to put them in writing where they can be tracked to you?

And, what’s up with the Syrian thing, and Hamas democratically elected Hamas in Palestine. You’re saying that BARACK OBAMA is responsible EXHORTING Israel to attack there, and eliminate Hamas? And you’re pretending to engage in these lying fabrications via a discussion with lil mamzer, who is only slightly less crazy than YOU are?

Humm, I don’t know Chalmers. You may be totally psychotic, or you may be working with the Rove bunch, (or at least using their techniques) but no doubt you intend to infect as many minds as you can. There was a time when the average reader/poster to these boards could simply blow you off as the nut case that you are, but we’ve seen all to overwhelmingly over the past several years, how people can become totally mislead by the media replication of pernicious lies and innuendo. It’s even MORE destructive in a an aging society, where such a large portion of the population is now afflicted with dementia and other similar disorders. (I dealing with that with my own elderly relatives).

Theirs of course, is not intentional, and I’m sure that they don’t just sit around in their episodes of dementia, to just make up outrageous tales, for the purpose of strewing lies and smear, and delusional tales about public figures, to add to public chaos. (Besides, the worst they’ll do is to falsely accuse the housekeeper or somebody else of stealing something stupid…like a bedspread or a photo.)

But..you’re far more dangerous in this propaganda, which I realized again recently, when I discovered that there are STILL people who believed that Saddam had WMD, and other various lies of the current administration, that led the US to this disaster that has helped ruin us. So, the affects can be lasting.

Now of course the average person reading here has figured out that you’re crazy,  or steeped in willful perfidy. But, I worry about recommending this site to others, especially those less politically aware, or up on the current news, and maybe naïve enough to be damaged by this. If this can be proven as willful lying Chalmers, (and slander) you could be in a heap of trouble. Even jail time. (of course we could make arrangements for you to be confined to a psychiatric facility instead.)

So be careful there Chalmers. This is free ‘preventive legal advice’.

I doubt it, but if you think so, I’m not going to tell you not to vote for him. I think he will put the U.S. natiohal interest first. Right now he is not backing a one-state solution but rather a two-state form advocated by most of the international community. That does involve a legitimization of Zionism, provided it obeys international law, which it is not doing now. I don’t know if such a two-state solution can be worked out - to me one democratic state makes the most sense. We shall see what kind of diplomatic magic Obama can work.

lil,

What I hope is that Obama will keep his pledge to talk to our adversaries, and sit down at the table for direct talks with Hamas without any preconditions. Then I think we will see some progress.

Thanks for the link.  If true then we are truly screwed because there will be no end in sight to the cycle of violence and worse.  I say “if true” because I am forever the skeptic, I don’t believe anything I read, hear, or see until verified by my own experience or independent investigation.  I trust no one with my being/reality.
We here in America are faced with a unique situation:  We have been ruled by fear and propaganda for 7 years now and have been uncharacteristically passive due to fear.  This alone is a daunting problem.  I for one have little faith we will rise to the fore and regain control.  So, the world shouldn’t expect too much from us regarding justice.  I hope you are wrong regarding Obama, but, if your not, then you can give me a “told you so”; but you must remember, our choices are necessarily limited.

By lilmamzer, February 13: “From Obama’s mouth to yours: Barack won’t tolerate the stupid bigoted anti-Zionist shit so casually splattered across the TruthCrapDig comment pages…”

Obama ‘Gets It’ On Israel - Oh, I see, so these diatribes of lilmamzer’s ARE from BO’s The Ring campaign then, huh???

And ‘nice’ Mr. Obama who exhorted Israel to bomb and murder 1,300 or so Lebanese in their own country last year as well as attack Syria and to eliminate the democratically-elected Hamas in Palestine is also going to make “the bigot crowd” here on TruthDig fall into line behind our precious barking four-footed lilmamzer…...??!?!

from Obama’s official campaign website
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/IsraelFactSheet.pdf

From Obama’s mouth to yours:
==================================
Ensure a Strong U.S.-Israel Partnership: Barack Obama strongly supports the U.S.-Israel relationship, a
mutually beneficial bond strengthened by common values, histories, and dedication to democracy. Obama
believes that our first and incontrovertible commitment in the Middle East must be to the security of Israel,
America’s strongest ally in the Middle East. Expressing his support for this reality, Obama delivered the
message to Palestinian university students in Ramallah that the United States would never distance itself from
Israel. Before the Palestinian elections, Obama asserted that the United States would never recognize Hamas
unless it renounced its fundamental mission to eliminate Israel and he continues to insist that Hamas recognize
Israel, abandon violence, and abide by previous agreements made between the Palestinian Authority and Israel.
———————————
Support Israel’s Right to Self Defense: During the July 2006 Lebanon war, Barack Obama stood up strongly
for Israel’s right to defend itself from Hezbollah raids and rocket attacks. Obama is an original cosponsor of the
Senate resolution expressing support for Israel, condemning the attacks, and calling for strong action against
Iran and Syria. Throughout the war, Barack Obama made clear that Israel should not be pressured into a
ceasefire that did not deal with the threat of Hezbollah missiles. In addition, Obama signed a letter to the
European Union pressing the EU to designate Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.
———————————-
“Our job is to renew the United States’ efforts to help Israel achieve peace with its neighbors while
remaining vigilant against those who do not share this vision. . . . That effort begins with a clear and strong
commitment to the security of Israel: our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy.
That will always be my starting point. And when we see all of the growing threats in the region: from
Iran to Iraq to the resurgence of al-Qaeda to the reinvigoration of Hamas and Hezbollah, that loyalty and
that friendship will guide me as we begin to lay the stones that will build the road that takes us from the
current instability to lasting peace and security.”
[Speech at AIPAC Policy Forum in Chicago, 3/2/07]
===========

===> These are rational, humane, and fundamentally Zionist positions regarding the right of Israel to live in peace and security as the sovereign homeland of the Jewish nation. That is why more and more Jews are coming to support Obama as the presidential campaign continues, and people become aware of his strong record of support for Israel and against Palestiian Arab terrorism. Barack won’t tolerate the stupid bigoted anti-Zionist shit so casually splattered across the <strike>Truth</strike>CrapDig comment pages by Cyrena, her alter-ego Chalmers, and the rest of the bigot crowd.

So, Clinton isn’t a zionist?  I think she is.

Obama wasn’t my first choice, but surely he’s better than Clinton.  Regardless, we’re supposed to be a democracy; this election will prove or disprove that theory.

I hope not.

“I’m just a little cautious/concerned here.  You’ll have to forgive this very grumpy old man but, according to Maani and some other news sources; Obama cannot get the necessary delegates even if he wins everything left in the primary.”

You should be concerned, but not because of Obama’s delegate count totals. It’s the fact that he is a Zionist. 

^, I’m just a little cautious/concerned here.  You’ll have to forgive this very grumpy old man but, according to Maani and some other news sources; Obama cannot get the necessary delegates even if he wins everything left in the primary.  Given the republican chicanery (to be kind) in the previous elections; I don’t trust the dems to be any different and anybody who does isn’t naive, they’re stupid.  I don’t trust the back room maneuvering to give us the candidate we want.  Voter beware, there’s mischievousness afoot.  Again, given our choices and it looks like Obama is it (we’ll see in a few weeks) then we need to be prepared to make our voices heard loud and clear:  Which brings me to another problem; namely, we didn’t exactly go to the streets over the war and the lame voting by Pelosi and the rest of the dems.  Bush’s policies just keep going and going just like the Eveready Bunny.  So, will we tell, no, demand, the super delegates give the people the thing they have voted for…..sadly….I don’t think so.  If Clinton gets it, even though Obama has the vote, then McCain will be our next president.  Think about it.

Quote: “But Clinton, it has been argued by more than a handful of pundits and even a few anonymous supporters, doesn’t just have to win Ohio and Texas, she has to win big…”

Its a difficult choice to make with the way the US electoral system is but “winning” in the primaries is not about winning the election. The Democrats have yet to learn that disunity is death!

If the issue is about “change”, both candidates are effectively offering change. The detractors of each will argue blindly that it is not so but that itself is the real problem. Supporting one at the expense of the other will lead to failure - and a Republican win in the elections.

There is no doubt that this is a time for hope and change but it has to be made to happen. That is done through co-operation, not competition. What the more aggressive Democrats supporters in The Ring camp don’t see is that they have been attacking one of their own in order to get their perceived version of change.

It has to be understood that, come the election, the chances of Hillary’s or Obama’s supporters coming out to vote for the other are not even. To put it bluntly, it will be harder to get Clinton campaign supporters to vote for an Obama ticket. That is the reality of the ethnic and age demographics in the mix.

Conversely, an Obama ticket without Hillary will get more Republicans coming out than usual. You know the reasons why. It will be hard to get them to see a legalist as a ‘true Christian’ or religious person but it will most probably ignite their racial and even anti-migrant aversions.

That will then be “what change looks like from the bottom up” , uhh. The “new American majority”  is still not quite resolved yet. How sweet it is  is not yet a reality…....