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Ear to the Ground

Court Rules Against Kucinich

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Posted on Jan 15, 2008
Kucinich
bp1.blogspot.com

Rep. Dennis Kucinich just can’t catch a break in Nevada. First NBC invited him to its debate there, then told him to stay away. A court intervened and said he could appear, but then just an hour before the event, the Nevada Supreme Court decided that NBC could bar Kucinich.


New York Times:

The Nevada Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that MSNBC is not required to include candidate Dennis Kucinich in its scheduled Democratic presidential debate.

The seven-member court overturned Monday’s ruling by a Nevada district court judge.

The decision, which came one hour before the debate was scheduled to begin in Las Vegas, meant that Mr. Kucinich would not share the stage with the party’s three leading contenders, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards. The debate is expected to begin at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC.

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By cyrena, January 21, 2008 at 8:05 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Ernest,

I’ve only just had an opportunity to read the entire thing from Amy’s “Breaking the Sound Barrier” which has provided Dennis Kucinich with the opportunity to participate, even if after the fact, so that we can hear what he had and has to say.

So, I’ve taken the liberty of posting the link to the entire thing. I’m overwhelmingly impressed of course, and specifically on his revelation of Humana privatizing Medicare, (they are actually my own ‘provider’ and I’ve yet to utilize the NON-services they provide, because that’s exactly what I get…NOTHING for my Medicare premiums via Humana they don’t provide shit, they only take their premiums) and even more importantly, what he has to say about his plan for getting us out of Iraq.

In short, each of the other ‘front runners’ plan a stay to ‘protect our embassy’ when in fact, as Dennis makes clear, we don’t deserve to have an Embassy in Iraq. And, since it is ONLY the occupation that is fueling the insurgency, we need only LEAVE - totally and completely, and allow an International force to take over.

Anyway, here is the link to the entire interview/debate, if anyone is interested.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011608T.shtml

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By cann4ing, January 17, 2008 at 9:16 pm #

The following excerpt from Amy Goodman’s interview of Dennis Kucinich reveals precisely why NBC was willing to go to the Nevada Supreme Court to block his appearance.

Tim Russert posed the following question:  “This statute’s been on the book for some time, Senator.  Will you vigorously enforce the statute to cut off federal funding to a school that does not provide military recruiters and an ROTC program?”  Clinton, Obama & Edwards, all dependent upon monies from the military-industrial complex, each answered in the affirmative.

Amy Goodman:  “Congressmenber Kucinich, would you?”

Kucinich:  “Absolutely not.  Our society is being militarized.  And part of the problem is NBC, which is a partner defense contractor through the ownership of General Electric [note: GE is also the parent company of Ratheon, another major defense contractor].  So NBC is really promoting war here.

“The truth of the matter is that we need to make it possible for our young people, if they desire to go into the military, they can go to a recruiter’s office, instead of telling campuses that if you don’t let recruiters on campus, you’re going to lose your money.  That, to me, is antithetical to a democratic society.

“We should be finding ways for young people to be able to go to college tuition-free, and I have such a proposal that would enable every person, every young person who wants to go to a two- or four-year public college or university to go tuition-free….

“We need to reorient our society.  These kind of questions really are intent on continuing the militarization of our society….”

Keep in mind the fundamental purpose of the Federal Communications Act of 1934, which had sought, in the words of Bill Moyers, to protect the “public interest” by preventing “a monopoly of commercial values from overwhelming democratic values: to insure that the official view of reality—commercial and government—was not the only view of reality that reached the people.”

NBC’s actions, not to mention its conflict of interest, raise significant questions as to whether its monopoly license to operate over the public airwaves should be renewed.  That should be the real topic of a future debate.

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By cyrena, January 17, 2008 at 2:46 pm #

Kath,

Just as a sort of FYI on Ron Paul and the impeachment thing. Ron Paul actually BLOCKED the latest effort by Dennis Kucinich to move an impreachment process forward. He claimed that the procedure wasn’t being done correctly, when in fact it was. So, he made a motion to table the resolution, as presented by Dennis Kucinich, and that’s what happened.

That’s why wexler has now taken it up. So, please don’t be mislead by Ron Paul talking out of both sides of his mouth, saying one thing, and meaning something else. Above all else, he is a loyal repug, and has been committed to the SAME Texas Cabal that is currently running our country over the cliff. He is not going to do anything to upset that program, no matter what his rhetoric claims.

I’ve added my own name to Wexler’s call several weeks ago, and the effort seems to be moving along well. Naturally, the more signatures the better, so thanks for posting this link again.

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By Tony Wicher, January 17, 2008 at 1:37 pm #

I get BBC on my cable TV. I have watched those BBC documentaries on television and the Web. They have not been shown on CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/MSNBC.

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By Mudwollow, January 17, 2008 at 1:26 pm #

If corporations are legally allowed to own and control America’s politicians, we should expect them to also control the “reality” shows that lead up to any farcical elections.

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By cann4ing, January 17, 2008 at 1:23 pm #

Paul joined the so-called “Democratic leadership” by voting to table impeachment when Kucinich brought it to the floor of the House.

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By amunaor, January 17, 2008 at 3:05 am #

To answer your question, in my opinion, Ron Paul is a true statesman and a, partially, great Constitutionalist, very many magnitudes brighter than any of the others standing on the republican side of the debate. His perceptual insight into the deceptive character of the Federal Reserve adds special eloquence in the way he articulates the nature of those monetary forces which are now so fundamental to the current dilemma. But, his continued support for the failed corporate model that has shredded the very document he so vehemently defends, as it continues to perpetuate its abusive powers, makes him a failure in my book.

Today, through metamorphosis, in the form of Multi-Nationals, its predation sows the seeds of usury that are now infecting the cultures of other nations, its only concern being the emotionless bottom-line, and those whose insatiable egos feed at its trough. Those it can not seduce, it conquers by force and snares the unwary into its noose of debt-slavery.

We can thank congress for abdicating its Constitutional responsibility in maintaining and controlling a sound coin of the realm, when in 1913 it turned that responsibility over to the corporations, centralizing the money power into the hands of the few, who later devised the deceptively fraudulent shell game of fractional reserve banking and now have a “Freedom of the Press.” As long as there are trees for pulp, and plenty of ink, the sky is the limit.

On the other hand, Kucinich is an iconoclast who wishes to dismantle, or at least defang the Beast. Tuff task as it might be, my vote goes to Kucinich!

The Alternative…
How long can a nation that produces nothing of significance, other than munitions, which simply enable the corporate oligarchs and their merchants of death, to sustain its brutish rule by force, as it itself luxuriates and washes its people in the bath-water of consumption, flowing from the taps of cheap labor everywhere, bloating a ballooning trade deficit which continues to mushroom out of control?

That they try to paint Kucinich out of the picture is no surprise. The question is: in the end, will they prevail?

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By nwmuse, January 17, 2008 at 12:10 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

For a great statement on this issue through a political cartoon, go here:

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/2644/

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By kath cantarella, January 16, 2008 at 11:59 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

That is my best guess. Ron Paul talks up impeachment but has he actually signed on to the bill or not? He’s waiting for the Dems to do it, trying to be a loyal Republican?
If impeachment proceedings begin, a lot of poweful careers will be ruined by the resulting investigations, not just Bush and Cheney, and not just Republicans.

Go to http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com to sign on and add your name to the call for impeachment.

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By Tony Wicher, January 16, 2008 at 11:44 pm #

Very briefly, what’s wrong with Ron Paul and the libertarians is that they want to “get the government off our backs”, but it isn’t the government that’s “on our backs”; it’s big corporations, big oil, big defense, big insurance, big media, etc. These institutions control our government and therefore us. The answer is to get big corporations out of government so that it will represent the people as it should. Democratic government, if it functions as it should, is accountable to the people. Corporations are accountable only to their shareholders. Libertarians want to get rid of government so the “invisible hand” of the “free market” will govern us. What this means is the end of democracy and unaccountable corporations ruling over us with absolute power.

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By cann4ing, January 16, 2008 at 10:57 pm #

Good letter, Tom, but I think what you meant to say is “silence is complicity.”

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By cann4ing, January 16, 2008 at 10:50 pm #

Thanks for the link, David.  Pretty powerful stuff.  I wonder if it would be possible for Amy to invite all four candidates for another debate on Democracy Now?

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By jbart, January 16, 2008 at 10:27 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

With all the doubts arising from the “uncheck able” electronic voting results that seem to be unstoppable, I have an idea to, possibly, get a “read” of the opinion of the American people. But, before I offer it, let me state that it just occurred to me without any in depth thought, just an idea.
Create a website(secure, of course, to record the votes made and reported/recorded as such by the people (or friends with internet access) who “actually” voted the way it is recorded. Perfect?  No way.  Indicative? I believe more so than what is being fed to the populace under the current situation. Perhaps recorded with name city/town state to allow somewhat of a credibility factor to its vote?  Have a campaign to consolidate the various websites that have similarly intentioned bloggers, (i.e. those that care about what’s going wrong and care about trying to fix it). If enough people are reached to add their votes, we would be able to refute the “skewed crap” that’s coming out as “reliable results” in the Primaries, so far. Believe me when I say that, at times I feel helpless with what’s going on but, I cannot believe that there is really “nothing” we can do to stop it.  I call on you guys, the people who are,” obviously” more in tune to what is happening, to “jump in” with possible/alternative solutions to stop the oncoming madness.  Or take my idea/concept and make the details more viable and possible.  Thanks for listening.

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By Outraged, January 16, 2008 at 9:36 pm #

Wow….After I had linked to the video documentary directed to Tony Wicher, I realised I had never gotten around to watching the last three entitled “The Power of Nightmares” episodes 1,2 & 3.  OMG!  I thought the thing was crazy before.  If you haven’t seen them, make sure you do.  Unbelievable….......

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/22/212041/57/454/425671

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By David Worcester, January 16, 2008 at 8:24 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Catch Kucinich joining the debate on Democracy Now, as Amy Goodman allows him to respond to questions from the ‘debate’ a day after it aired.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/16/breaking_the_sound_barrier_democracy_now

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By VillageElder, January 16, 2008 at 7:22 pm #

I think there is a myth of competence for those who control the MSM and the rest of the charade.  Every time they do this to Kucinch we howl and bay.  We know on a factual basis that the majority of Americans hold the views put forth by Dennis. 

Now if these folks are as bright as they are supposed to be why wouldn’t they let Dennis speak.  It would show that they are “giving voice to all sides of the question”.  It would not cost them anything and the could brag about including all.

These folks must be scared shitless that the rest of the country might wake up.  The repugs are always complaining about class warfare if anything is said about or against their privileged status.  Given that a great number of tele viewers would rather watch reruns of “I love Lucy” than a “debate”, one must wonder:  What are they so afraid of? 

Class consciousness could do wonders here ...

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By Freedom Jenkins, January 16, 2008 at 7:13 pm #

letters@msnbc dot com

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By Freedom Jenkins, January 16, 2008 at 7:08 pm #

Inform them of the shows you watch/like and tell them that you are going to STOP watching them!  There are alternatives to watching your shows on their networks… find them and use them!


.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

I am voting for Dennis because he is the BEST PERSON for the job and he represents American values.  We actually have a good candidate and he can’t buy TV time…

It’s a shame Americans are too freaking stupid to ask themselves why this great American Patriot is being excluded from the American Political Process!

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By nwmuse, January 16, 2008 at 6:08 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

I just wanted to let people know that Amy Goodman and Democracy Now! have managed to find a way to include Dennis Kucinich in last night’s debate.
She took major excerpts from the debate and had Dennis on the show responding to the questions that were asked of the other three candidates, giving him the same amount of time. You can watch or listen from their website:

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/16/breaking_the_sound_barrier_democracy_now

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By amunaor, January 16, 2008 at 6:06 pm #

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

One should not dismiss paranoia, and use it as a cloak for denial, rather than the intuitive jolt meant to protect one from a snare.

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By Outraged, January 16, 2008 at 5:40 pm #

Tony Wicher

It’s really not paranoia to suppose that “somethings going on”.  I found this on DailyKos and it speaks volumes. It is billed on the Kos site this way:

“Adam Curtis exposes the public manipulation we sense but usually don’t understand. His BBC documentaries are legendary in Britain but practically unknown in the US. An American network executive who wouldn’t even let his name be used said “we would be crucified if we showed that here”. These documentaries are like a graduate course in how the American and British public has been herded like cattle since the end of World War I.

Each episode is about an hour and all are jaw dropping-ly insightful. Adam Curtis other BBC Documentaries, The Trap, The Mayfair Set, and Pandoras Box build on The Century of the Self and the Power of Nightmares.”

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/22/212041/57/454/425671

One of the interesting aspects of this documentary series is that even when they weren’t successful in their manipulation, the fact that they were making the attempt speaks volumes.

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By Tom Semioli, January 16, 2008 at 5:30 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

To:  Howard Dean
    Democratic National Committee Chairman
    430 South Capitol Street SE
    Washington DC

Wednesday, January 16, 2008

Mr. Dean,

I am appalled, but not surprised, that Democrats did not respond when a major television network rescinded their invitation for peace candidate Dennis Kucinich to participate in the most recent presidential debate despite the fact that credible independent polling results from the Progressive Democrats of America and The Nation, among others, rate him higher than the corporate* sponsored top tier contenders Clinton, Obama, and Edwards.

The network’s decision showed blatant disregard for the Federal Communications Act which stipulates broadcast media must serve the public necessity, interest, and convenience.   

As a party chairman you have failed miserably by not taking action. Silence is compliance. Since you and your party took no action, I will.

This year I will not vote for any Democrats on the local, state, or national levels and I will encourage my friends and colleagues to do the same.

Until your party upholds the principles of democracy (check your old high school civics text books to refresh your memory) I will continue to vote independent.

I look forward to the Democrats defeat this November, which will surely be facilitated by your continuing incompetence, lack of democratic values, antithetical behavior, and, quite frankly, daft leadership.
Patriotically Yours,

Tom Semioli
New York

*Refers substantial campaign contributions from military industrial complex investors, defense contractors, insurance companies, media companies, and other special interests.


###

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By Louise, January 16, 2008 at 4:49 pm #

Good question!

Guess I’ll never know since I now boycott MSNBC.
If he comes out doing the right thing, let me know!

Thanks.

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By amunaor, January 16, 2008 at 4:43 pm #

In order to understand the dubious nature of this magical craft, in the hands of those wishing to promote an idea, please click on the following link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk1vEuhBuEU

and judge for yourself how sound and vision are capable of steering emotion.

It is a composite of still images I stitched together with actual statements in effort to display hypocrisy.

Just think of the possibilities for ‘physic abuse’ if one were to have a muti-billion dollar budget at their disposal.

It’s not funny!

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By Louise, January 16, 2008 at 4:35 pm #

You are correct.
The first relates to the NH democrat primary. And in comparing to the PUBLISHED reports indicates a possible discrepancy in the final vote tallies. Which was the whole point of tracking it down in the first place.

Now go to:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7753
And read about the second string discrepancies in NH.
This puts Obama clearly the winner, does not address the initial projections. But still raises the question, how can there be such a wide swing in FIVE days? Read the whole post. Interesting numbers.

The second post is the “official, not to be published” projected numbers for Nevada. Published by AP on January 14, 2008. Which clearly indicates a complete reversal of the “official, not to be published” numbers from twelve days before. Sorry, I should have clarified that. And yes, you are correct neither was intended for publication. God bless the Internet!

Since the Nevada primary is still a few days away, it will be interesting to see what changes occur, if any. No matter what happens though, I find such wide swings in projected numbers highly suspicious. Guess that’s just my nature. wink

Some more interesting poll projections regarding Nevada:
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/nevada.html

Note: Numbers posted for January 19 almost reverse numbers posted in “not for publication” numbers posted for January 14.

Tracking numbers backwards in Nevada shows Hillary way ahead, slipping then falling behind.
No corollary whatsoever with numbers published [albeit not for publication] on January 2, in New Hampshire. Other than Hillary was way behind Obama. I also find it interesting that the focus in the West, since the second week in January has been on the numbers between Obama and Hillary. Even though early projections in the East showed them both way behind, with Obama ahead of Hillary. How come?

Obviously the Clinton [and Obama] camp recognized somewhere around the beginning of January this was not going to be a slam dunk.

So what did they do to turn it around?

Well, that’s what this is all about. Lets hope time will tell the REAL story.

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By amunaor, January 16, 2008 at 3:47 pm #

Such are the Magicians of Sound and Vision.

Anyone hearing this should not think for a moment they don’t, INTENSLY, study and pursue the psychology of their craft. Just consider for a moment the amount of studied energy dedicated and focused in the orchestration of a 30 second ad, geared to penetrate eye and ear to capture mind.

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By Johnny Smith, January 16, 2008 at 3:12 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Being a progressive, I see no reason to vote for Hillary OR Obama. Neither is that closely attuned to my own progressive views.

The democratic party, starting with Bill Clinton, decided that it would be easier to win elections by siphoning off votes from the right by being more centrist than it would be to fight for their own constituents. It’s worked in that it has made them more attractive to the moderates and the progressives have continued their blind allegiance to the democratic party.

However, this progressive and many more are NOT going to continue supporting the democratic party as it becomes more and more “republican-lite.” If they’re not going to stand up for the principles that this nation was founded on, they’ve lost all connections with the principles that Thomas Jefferson founded the party on.

I criticized the democrats who supported Ralph Nader in the last two elections but I would do the same in this one before once again compromising my own principles.

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By cann4ing, January 16, 2008 at 2:43 pm #

Louise, excellent post, as always, but I am confused by the two linked polls.  It appears to me that the first relates to New Hampshire.  The second to Nevada.  Both state that they were not for publication.

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By cann4ing, January 16, 2008 at 2:33 pm #

TW:  Your assumption that posters at Truthdig are more progressive than Americans as a whole is belied by the “blind poll” released last August that listed the policy positions of each candidate but not their names.  Kucinich received a whopping 53% of the vote as compared to less than 5% each for Obama, Edwards & Clinton.

Successive decisions by the corporate media to exclude Kucinich from the debates follow an earlier format in which Kucinich and Gravel were stuck at the far ends of the stage, while the three media-favored candidates, Obama, Clinton & Edwards—the candidates dubbed as “leading” before the first poll was taken—were placed at dead center.  The subliminal message was that the “leading three” should be the center of our attention; that we should ignore those on the margins, and it was reflected in about 1/3 of the time being given to Kucinich/Gravel that was given to each of the other candidates.

You can scan the op ed pages of the New York Times throughout this election.  The name Kucinich never appears, not even when Paul Krugman was dealing with the subject of healthcare reform.

American elections are not based on the substantive positions of the candidates.  They are managed by the same PR industry which creates demand for products through deceptive advertising.  This is hardly new.  As Noam Chomsky points out in “Failed States,” “Goebbels conscripted the leading commercial advertising men in Germany for his propganda ministry, and boasted that ‘he would use American advertising methods’ to ‘sell National Socialism’ much as business seeks to sell ‘chocolate, toothpaste, and patent medicines.’”

Chomsky notes Veblen long ago pointed out that the task of business propaganda is the “fabrication of consumers,” a device that helps induce “all classic symptoms of of state-based totalitarianism: atomization, political apathy and irrationality, the hollowing and banalization of purportedly political processes, mounting popular frustration….”

Chomsky notes that by 2000, “issue awareness” had “reached an all time low.  It may have been even lower in 2004.  In 2004, about 10% of voters, in an open question, chose the candidate’s ‘agendas/ideals/platforms/goals’ as the prime reason for their votes (Bush 6%, Kerry 13%)....Many voted for what the public relations industry calls ‘qualities’ or ‘values,’ which are designed and projected with great care and have as much authenticity as imagery in toothpaste ads.  News commentary focused on ‘style,’ ‘likeability,’ ‘bonding’ and ‘character….”

Consider the foregoing in relation to a recently released study which demonstrated that out of thousands of questions posed to the candidates, only three related to global warming.  Then consider Chomsky’s revelation about Kyoto.  “A majority of Bush backers not only support the protocol, but mistakenly believe that the president does so as well.”

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By Louise, January 16, 2008 at 2:31 pm #

I personally think of all methods of voting, this is probably the easiest to alter, and the least able to validate.

If a box of mailings is not in the polling place on time, they will not be counted. How easy is it to lose [until the hour has passed] a box of ballots?

It certainly isn’t difficult to figure out, based on political demographics, which way the majority in any given district will lean. Making it easier to decide which box or bundle will be [temporarily] misplaced.

A friend, a democrat [retired 2004] army colonel, said to me the apparent, overwhelming majority of repubs in the military is based on absentee ballots counted, and not necessarily on absentee ballots sent. Same as above applies. How easy is it to “misplace” a bundle of absentees until they will be considered invalid.

In fact, it happens every election.

He said, “Till the day I die, I will never know for sure if my vote has ever been counted.”

That’s good enough for me.
I prefer to trudge to the polling place.
Once that envelope has left your hand, you really have no idea where it might end up. And no way of finding out!

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By Louise, January 16, 2008 at 2:07 pm #

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va& aid=7719
I was able to pull it up. The numbers match.
[Placing Obama fifth behind Edwards first, Kucinich second. And Hillary seventh.]

I then pulled this up ... the dems “official” numbers.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/01/14/america/PC-Dem-Pres-All.php

Hillary Clinton 336,876 - 35 percent
Barack Obama 263,393 - 27 percent
John Edwards 175,101 - 18 percent
Uncommitted 117,169 - 12 percent

Dennis Kucinich 54,256 - 6 percent

Mike Gravel 24,498 - 3 percent
Joe Biden0 - 0 percent

Even allowing for the twelve days difference between the two tally’s, something definitely smells rotten! Particularly when you look at independent polls ongoing for several months now, which show Kucinich and Edwards clearly ahead of the pack, with Kucinich the clear winner in most states!

In my mind, this does not indicate we are being marginalized, it indicates we are being used, abused and LIED TOO!

Maybe the problem is the two party’s have both sold out. [No really? Yeh, really]

In any case, watch today’s democracy now.
http://www.democracynow.org/
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/16/breaking_the_sound_barrier_democracy_now

Amy gives Kucinich equal time. A few things mentioned, the connection between NBC, GE and one of those “Big Boom” [as in blowing up people] manufacturers. Also interesting connections between Hillary and Edwards and same big boom corp. Also mentioned, of the three, Obama was the only one who made a statement about Kucinich being barred.

But lets not forget, WE were barred. And lets not forget it will happen again, because mainstreammedia, major political parties and war machine manufacturers think we are the least important factor in their grand scheme to rule the world!

And I guess when it comes to blood and guts, dying for the Empire and counting profit ... we are.

Time to change that equation?
A little push-back might be in order!
No, actually A LOT of push-back IS in order!

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By WJR, January 16, 2008 at 2:05 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

This may not be the time or place, but as DK supporters, what in your opinion is right with, and wrong with, Ron Paul?

Sincerely,
A Disgusted (borerline former) Ron Paul Supporter

P.S.  I asked this question before, but for some reason when notified by email that there’d been responses, I couldn’t see them.  Now that I’ve registered, hopefully I’ll have better luck.  Thanks.

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By Tony Wicher, January 16, 2008 at 1:33 pm #

As a democratic socialist I agree with Kucinich far more than Clinton or Obama on the issues. Unfortunately, the fact is that Kucinich and his supporters posting here, including me, are much more progressive than the country as a whole. That is the main reason we are “marginalized”, not because there is a corporate conspiracy to marginalize us. It is in the nature of a popularity contest that those who are outside conventional thinking tend to get derided and belittled, and this has been done by Chris Matthews and the rest of the mainstream media for sure, and it is infuriating. But it’s paranoia to think it’s a conspiracy.

I see Obama as the best chance to get more progressive ideas into the “mainstream”, and that is why I continue to support him. It’s looking to me like the “year of the woman”, and Hillary is going to be the nominee and the next president. I would even be happy to see Obama make vice president at this point. Edwards for AG? I wish.

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By Jim Yell, January 16, 2008 at 12:51 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

One person wrote that Kucinich was trying to get the government to dictate what the public views. This is not entertainment, this is an election process. Cutting out people just because they have low support numbers is not in the interest of informed voters. All registered candidates should be included in the supposed debates. Of course, these aren’t really debates. No one is really grilled in front of the public when they dance around a question.

I have enormous respect for Kucinich who can think on his feet. I practically cheered when I watched the moment on the “debate” he was included in and when asked “which candidate he wished to answer a question from him”, smoothly went on to ask himself a question about an issue important to many, but ignored by the “debate”. I think Kucinich would be a great president and a tonic for the damage done to the country and our laws by reckless and criminal Republicans and compliant Democratic, so called leaders.

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By Johnny Smith, January 16, 2008 at 11:19 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

As long as we continue to support the eventual corporate-picked candidates, we’ll never see change. The best way to fight this is with protest votes. If your candidate was unfairly left out of the debates, cast a write-in vote for him this fall. When Hillary or McCain lose a state by a few thousand votes and they see that Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul pulled enough votes to cost them the state, MAYBE they’ll get the message about excluding a candidate from the debates.

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By mary, January 16, 2008 at 11:13 am #

Cyrena is correct, the only way to assure your vote even has a chance to be counted, can correctly, is to mail it in.

After watching the news media promote their candidate choices since before Clinton, I am not at all surprised they were able to manipulate “their” judge to give them the ruling they wanted. Let’s not forget Florida 2000.  But my biggest disappointment is how the media allowed the moron from Diebold to get away with “delivering Ohio”.  What kind of crap is that, and no uproar!!!  However, I would like to have seen the “anointed three” refuse the debate at msnbc and offer to have it at pbs instead, or any other outlet.  I can understand that would have been a last minute decision and maybe not possible, but a least a mention of their protest would have been appreciated.  Remember, right now these candidates are all fighting for their lives, can we really expect any of them to take the high ground?  I am not a Kucinich supporter, however he does bring many important issues to the table and I would like to see John Edwards extend some support with a promise of a seat at the table.

A citizen revolt needs to start with getting our votes counted and the best way that can be done is with the mail-in vote.  After that, it’s time to pressure the news media to start doing the job they were meant to do, investigate and report the truth…....

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By Johnny Smith, January 16, 2008 at 11:10 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Kucinich was also left out of the Iowa debates, even though Biden and Dodd, trailing Kucinich in national polls at the time, were invited. Just like the exclusion of Ron Paul on the republican side, the corporate-owned networks don’t want America to hear ANY anti-corporate messages.

Isn’t it great that in America, home of the free, our networks can choose whose agenda they want to promote and whose they want to censor? I never thought I would see the democrats stooping to the same tactics as the republicans. Is it any wonder that over half of America no longer chooses to vote in presidential elections?

I have been a faithful democrat for 35 years and have never missed a presidential election but I’ll probably be another of those disenfranchised voters this fall.

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By Timothy1119, January 16, 2008 at 9:47 am #

With Hillary as the ONLY major candidate listed in Michigan Dennis K was still only able to win 4% after a year of being included in every debate. 

This man needs to do the hard work of building a movement before he tries to run for anything. You cannot criticise a media company that realizes that airing the irrelevent views of an irrelevent man in the closing weeks of the primaries is a complete waste of time of those who intend to vote.

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By Sally A. Bridges, January 16, 2008 at 8:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Is this the U.S.A. where everyone is created equal?  I thought there were rules about “equal time.”  Oh, I guess its just for the two political parties.  Shouldn’t it apply to individual parties within THE PARTY, when there is only one PARTY doing the debating?  I think there should be a class action suit by THE VOTING CLASS, which means all of us.  This is stunningly sickening.  The media (A.K.A. the PRESS) are really running the show.  After all, this is how average citizens get to know the candidates.  It’s so easy for them to spin, spin, spin a story by repetition, repetition, repetition. They go on and on about some trivia until it becomes a major story, and then they downplay stories that are important.  They let their pundits sit in their ivory towers and rain judgement upon this candidate and that idea, on, ad nausium. Unless we start holding the media accountable for deliberate misleading of the public, as well as lawmakers and politicians, we will have treated only half the problem.  A free press was never meant to spin fairy tales just to get ratings. 
There is no real freedom for any of us, if we are harnessed to the opinions of a few shortsighted, self-important, know-it-alls.  I used to enjoy the Sunday Morning shows until I began to realize that these “expert” commentators and pundits were just educated idiots and knew nothing about the real world of the people. I am tired of hearing about Joe Lunchbox or the Lunchpail voter (also Soccer Moms of earlier times).  Who in the hell do these idiots think they are when they reduce voters to the status of being just above the chimpanzee in intellect.  I’m tired of being treated as a statistic in the board game they seem to be playing to figure out what strategy is being used by the candidates, and their handlers, in trying to win an election.  This shouldn’t be a game, or treated as a game—-real peoples lives are at stake here!  Where is the humanity?!

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By Mr.Tuttle, January 16, 2008 at 7:46 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

How much more proof do you need that Government is no longer controlled by the people?

We are no longer a Democracy or even a Republic for that matter. We are a Fascist State where corporations control every aspect of our Government, thanks to the spineless power hungry politicians.

Time to start over. Time for Revolution!!!
It is our DUTY TO STAND UP. OUR DUTY!!!

See You All in the streets!! Let’s go get our poisitive future back from these sick bastards that have robbbed us of our government, democracy, Life, life, liberty, and a future pursuit of happiness!!

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By GB, January 16, 2008 at 4:18 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

When corporations write social policy, pick our leaders, eat up our treasury, run our courts, and police our privacy, that’s pretty much the definition of facism.
Kucinich has the best plans for our country but GE has different plans.

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By amunaor, January 16, 2008 at 4:02 am #

I agree your 100%. Their own inactions to this major infraction upon one of their own, certainly does speak volumes.

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By amunaor, January 16, 2008 at 3:52 am #

But, I must add, in this case, they’re not listing the negative side effects that accompany the three poison pills they’re pushing.

What a bowl-movement this will cause, if it ever grows legs and hits the fan!!!

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By cyrena, January 16, 2008 at 3:34 am #

Outraged..

I tried it too. Same results. Just the editors note, explaining that they had been test runs, and not intended for publication.

On the other, with the NH discrepancies. Ya know, Kucinich filed an action for a recount right away there as well.
Kucinich Seeks NH Dem Vote Recount
  By Stephen Frothingham
  The Associated Press
  Thursday 10 January 2008
•  “  Concord, NH - Democrat Dennis Kucinich, who won less than 2 percent of the vote in the New Hampshire primary, said Thursday he wants a recount to ensure that all ballots in his party’s contest were counted. The Ohio congressman cited “serious and credible reports, allegations and rumors” about the integrity of Tuesday results.”..

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011108C.shtml

And, I admit that I was puzzled by it, (I hate that)just because it was not the ‘standard’ sort of circumstance where we would expect it. (like in a close count). So, I wondered why he might be willing to go through the hassle and expense. (His own returns in that primary were very low, at or around 2% maybe less). So, I’d been sort of pondering on that, because of course all of the ‘media’ attention was focused on Hillary and Obama.

But, then I read of the big discrepancies between the manually counted and scanned votes, so I wondered if he was doing Obama some sort of ‘favor’ by requesting it.

WELL, now we know!! Test run or not, I BELIEVE these numbers that you’ve put here from global research, (for one thing, I’ve yet to ever find anything factually incorrect or in any way propagandized on global research, even though I generally DO back it up with other resources). But, I just said that to say that I’ve always found that to be a highly reliable resource site, and I use them a lot for stuff that has to pass the highest of tests for accuracy.

That said, I have no reason to disbelieve this, despite the fact that the other reference page has obviously been ‘pulled’. (that doesn’t surprise me either…I’ve come across that before on occasion, and generally when I’m looking for similar types of information.)

Meantime, I’m STILL hearing and reading that Hillary was the only candidate on the Democratic ticket in Michigan’s primary today. I’d heard that earlier, and then read somewhere later, that Kucinich and Gravel, (and possibly Edwards) had NOT pulled their own names from the ballots, as a result of the DNC pulling their certification as penalty for having it early. So, I’m waiting to find out now, if in fact there were actually any other names on the Dem ticket other than Hillary’s today, in the Michigan primary..just because I wanna know.

Now, I vote by mail. I have for about 5 years now, and my understanding is that those votes are manually tallied. Can ALL citizens request to vote that way? So that there is a paper trail? Just curious.

That’s the only way we’re gonna know that the person we vote for, actually gets their votes counted under THEIR names.

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By amunaor, January 16, 2008 at 3:32 am #

Thanks very much for this info. I could not for the life of me fathom otherwise how such a massive sea of flesh, which has been clamoring for change, for the last too many years, could so mysteriously have vanished into thin air. Where have all these people gone?

At first I thought perhaps it was the result of corporate media’s successful helmsmen-ship in steering the public mind onto their three favorite horses out of the chute, then marketing them as they would anyone of their other pharmaceutical commodities. But with the disturbing data you have provided above and the already proven odious nature of the Diebold machines, it now brings into question weather both techniques are not being successfully employed here.

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

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By Expat, January 16, 2008 at 3:19 am #

By Louise, January 15 at 7:10 pm #
(386 comments total)

Louise, they know exactly who they are, which is why they do what they do.  It is us who are just realizing who they are.

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By helping hand, January 16, 2008 at 3:19 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

new test returns are out… type what is within the outer quotation marks into google:

““these are test returns” site:iht.com”

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By Expat, January 16, 2008 at 3:10 am #

Thank you ABC and MSNBC.  I can’t begin to adequately express my emotions and thoughts regarding your choices for us in the 2008 Presidential race.  Your choice of candidates for us is, well, just underwhelming.  You know; on second thought, I can express my feelings about that if I run a 30 minute diatribe of impolite 4 letter expletives.

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By Outraged, January 16, 2008 at 1:25 am #

This is so indicative of their fraudulent tactics it isn’t funny.

I found this as I was roaming around the internet today.  I tried the link at the bottom of the “Global Research” page. It took me to the “International Herald Tribune” page but there it said “page not found”.  I’m not sure what to make of it.

From Global Research:

“These are TEST returns. They must not be broadcast or published.

The Associated Press
Wednesday, January 2, 2008

127 of 301 precincts - 42 percent


John Edwards12,390 - 30 percent
Dennis Kucinich9,958 - 24 percent
Mike Gravel2,679 - 7 percent
Bill Richardson2,401 - 6 percent
Barack Obama2,228 - 5 percent
Joe Biden2,178 - 5 percent
Hillary Clinton2,141 - 5 percent
Chris Dodd1,492 - 4 percent
Michael Skok788 - 2 percent
Total Write-ins750 - 2 percent
O. Savior561 - 1 percent
Tom Laughlin537 - 1 percent
Tom Koos498 - 1 percent
Dal LaMagna466 - 1 percent
Caroline Killeen401 - 1 percent
Bill Keefe340 - 1 percent
D.R. Hunter283 - 1 percent
William Hughes249 - 1 percent
Richard Caligiuri212 - 1 percent
Kenneth Capalbo174 - 0 percent
Randy Crow140 - 0 percent
Henry Hewes91 - 0 percent”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7719

Try the link yourself then see if you can find the page/info online anywhere….hmmm.  I couldn’t, but maybe someone else can.  I was trying to at least attempt to verify the info.

There was also this article at Global Research, an excerpt:

“The mainstream Italian media are reporting both the rigging of the New Hampshire primary for Senator Hillary Clinton and the official demands for a swift, accurate and impartial recount. In an article written by Marcello Foa, one of Europe’s most respected journalists, it appears that vote tallies for all Democratic candidates as well as Republicans were reduced by Diebold vote-counting machines.

In an analysis of the hand-counted ballots, the influential Milanese newspaper - Il Giornale, reports that all Democratic candidates except Senator Hillary Clinton made gains when the New Hampshire ballots were manually tabulated, while Senator Clinton made inexplicably large gains where ballots were tabulated by computerized scanners.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7794

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By Kevin, January 16, 2008 at 12:49 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Once again, the best candidate for the people is blocked by a major corporation. The one who would stand up to them, scares them.
The only candidate who is willing to put his best foot forward and suggest that Cheney should be impeached, is blocked from having a corporate media outlet to speak from. No surprise here.
Also, it is extremely disappointing, but no surprise the other 3 candidates won’t speak pit for him.

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By Chris, January 16, 2008 at 12:49 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

MSNBC’s moneymaker, Keith Olberman, was outraged, when Ron Paul was not allowed on the Republican debate on Fox News.

For someone who spends so much air time time nitpicking Bill O’Reilly and Fox News (this being said as someone who is no fan of O’Reilly’s), when his own network does the SAME DAMN THING, he barely mentions it in his broadcast.

Where is the outrage, you FAKE?

Maybe the centerpiece of your time-filling, stupid segment “Worst Person In The World” really should be you.

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By cann4ing, January 16, 2008 at 12:40 am #

The willingness of Obama, Edwards and Clinton to go on in the face of this travesty speaks volumes about where each of them stand on the first amendment and the corporate media’s control over what we see, hear and read.  Had the three of them and the Democratic Party told MSNBC that they will not allow the corporate media to limit the scope of the debate, MSNBC would not have been able to proceed while excluding Kucinich.  It is a question of who is controlling whom—something every voter who really wants to see “real change” should consider before voting for anyone other than Kucinich.

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By Louise, January 16, 2008 at 12:10 am #

Given recent posts, and given recent comments, I think it’s safe to say the majority of posters on this site are sick and tired and fed up with the way the media has controlled and dictated OUR election.

For that reason, I for one will not watch the debate. I will find out who the sponsors are and let them all know from today on, I will not purchase their products!

Who the hell do these filthy rich bastards think they are? When did I miss the decision that their rights are more important than mine? That their voice can dictate my decisions and choices? When did we the people decide they could do a better job of picking our president than we can?

In short, who died and made them God?

I hope you will all join me in my boycott of NBC and MSNBC. How high will their ratings be if nobody’s watching?

And boycotting ALL their advertisers! How long will they survive if we quit buying their stuff?

Remember, their smugness and conceit will keep them believing they have the right to call our shots. That we cant in any way hurt them. Lets get busy and show them how wrong they are!

If you want to see our rights restored, this is a good place to start!

The network may have the right to pick whoever they want on their debate. But if any of the candidates who were blessed with a devine invitation truly believe we should all have free choice and the right to hear ALL the candidates ... THEY’LL BOYCOTT THE DEBATE TOO!

Tonight may be the night when it all comes down to deciding who running for president is an honest broker of free speech!

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By john dworkin, January 15, 2008 at 11:50 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

i’ve never been so disgusted in all my life. reading this after watching a few minutes of the msnbc ‘debate’ is beyond depressing. it’s frightening. any doubt that our political process is now entirely run by corporate monied interests who do NOT have the interests of the american people at heart is wiped clean. it’s over. they’re too powerful. they’ve won. the revolution will not be televised. if i was 18 i’d start the next Weather Underground. this country needs another revolution. i’m disgusted…

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