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 Ex-CIA Agent: White House Authorized TorturePosted on Dec 11, 2007
Former CIA agent John Kiriakou, who witnessed the waterboarding of top al-Qaida operative Abu Zubaida, has said that the practice is indeed torture and “a policy made at the White House, with concurrence from the National Security Council and the Justice Department.” Kiriakou added during an interview with NBC that the destruction of video evidence of the technique was “a terrible mistake.” The former agent argued that while the torture of Zubaida “probably saved lives,” it should not be used in the future.
Watch the interview:
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By cann4ing, December 12, 2007 at 3:53 pm #
non credo, I believe I have been fairly consistent on torture. It is illegal. It is immoral. Even if it were effective, it would not be justified--ever! But the plain and simple fact is that it does not work. The torturer can extract a confession. The torturer has the power to kill his victim. But because the tortured will say anything the he or she thinks his tormentor wants to hear, it is virtually useless, even in the ticking bomb scenario. If the individual doesn’t know, he or she will make up a story about where the bomb is to be found from whole cloth.
Why do you assume that because I demonstrate how utterly useless it is as an intelligence gathering tool, I would advocate torture if it could be shown to be effective?
Report thisBy lastdaywatchers, December 12, 2007 at 1:05 pm #
The key to this story is not whether water boarding is torture or not? Or is it ethical? The real meaning is how dark the souls of Israel, Britain and the United States have become and how they will lie at all cost just as the May 15th Prophecy has prophesied
Report thisBy Pathman25, December 12, 2007 at 11:22 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
This guy never witnessed the waterboarding. See Larry Johnson article at:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/dec/12/wa terboarding_and_torture
P.S. Didn’t know I needed to be a freakin’ cryptographer to submit the “code word” in the box.
Report thisBy cann4ing, December 12, 2007 at 9:59 am #
C Quil. While I agree with your statement that waterboarding is not simulated drowning, but actual drowning, there is no guarantee that it will not kill the victim. My father was waterboarded by the Japanese in 1942, forced to sign a false confession that he was a British agent. He signed even though it wasn’t true and even though he thought he was being asked to sign his own death warrant. He told me that after multiple lapses of consciousness, he was convinced he would die right then and there, and, of course, having water run up your nostrils, down your throat and into your lungs is exquisitely painful. (Because his initial signature was so wobbly, his tormentors went to his cell the next day with a new confession; gave him the choice of signing or another round of waterboarding. He signed.)
While I don’t have any direct statistics available, (as you can see from the recent tape destruction episode, torturers usually don’t leave a paper trail for susequent scientific study) given what I do know of anatomy, I am relatively certain that by cutting off air to the point of causing lapses in consciousness, the torturer places the tortured at risk of death, especially if the individual has a pre-existing cardiovascular or pulmonary condition.
Report thisBy C Quil, December 12, 2007 at 9:17 am #
Waterboarding is drowning that doesn’t actually kill you. It’s not “simulated” anything.
John Yoo would be okay with that, though. As long as something doesn’t kill you, then it’s not torture.
I think I’ll go with Jonathan Turley on this one - it’s been classified as torture since the Spanish Inquisition. It’s subject to court martial and execution in the code of military justice.
Kuriakou is covering his nether regions. There are so many rats abandoning the sinking ship that they have to take numbers and wait in line. He wants a number before they stop giving them out.
What kind of a civilization needs torture to preserve it? One not worth preserving, maybe.
Report thisBy ElkoJohn, December 12, 2007 at 8:21 am #
Senator John McCain is the definitive expert on what US policy should be regarding torture. Everyone else is either an amateur or a criminal.
Report thisBy Bill, December 12, 2007 at 8:00 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
America has tried, convicted, and punished operatives from other countries under war crimes laws for their use of waterboarding against American and allies personnel. If we are now using waterboarding, those responsible better not cry foul if they are charged under these same war crime laws for the same reason…
Report thisBy J.M., December 12, 2007 at 7:58 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
So, let me understand. There was no physical harm done and possibly thousands of lives were saved. It seems to me that the ends justify the means a thousand fold. The CIA does this to their own agents. I say Thank GOD that we have people out there doing this to garner the kind of information they need to keep this country and our citizens safer. Here’s the thing, if they didn’t use these techniques to get this information and another 9/11 type of catastrophy happens, are you people going to be saying “well at least we didn’t torture anyone, we can feel good about that”. What if it’s someone you love that’s killed? Are you still going to say, “well I know my daughter was out shopping when that mall got attacked, but you know what, thank goodness we didn’t waterboard anyone to avoid it”. I think not. You would be out there screaming that this administration is soft on terror and that they didn’t do everything in their power to avoid it. Hypocrites drive me crazy. I also believe that innocent unborn babies have the right to life and that convicted child raping killers do not have any reason to be on the face of this planet. I believe that killers kill, not guns so get the killers off the street and out of the country. I believe that people should try to take care of themselves if they are able bodied, not depend on government handouts (hard time can befall anyone, that’s what government progams should be for, not for a lifestyle). I believe if people don’t like this country, our flag or our language they have the right to go back to the country they came from, but do not try to change this country to your old one.
Report thisSo in short, thank GOD this country has the balls to do what needs to be done even in this day and age of political correctness. Terrorist want to KILL us, not sit down and have tea and discuss their “religion”. Waterboard away my friends!
By nefertiti, December 12, 2007 at 5:10 am #
“When Bush said “We do not torture!” was he lying? “
Doesnt he Always ???
Report thisBy RdV, December 12, 2007 at 4:51 am #
What a joke this guy is. Central casting must’ve used the Dan Ackroid special agent model. Notice the dynamic: It is torture but it is justified because it works and prevents other terrorist attacks.
Report thisThat is a crock of shit. Torture has been proven not to work--the victim will say whatever the torturer wants to make the suffering stop. I was pleased to see another retired CIA agent speaking out against this character on Olberman--but the message of torture bad but neccessary had already been broadcast by the MSM. Dense, Tweety Matthews asks why they do it, if it doesn’t work. Why the hell did they invade Iraq when they has to fabricate a case to sell the public to do so?
By Ed Ackerman, December 12, 2007 at 4:01 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
When did we as a people/country with our Constitution and all other legal rights decide that torture was OK? We screamed at the Israilies(sp) for “Moderate Pressure” a few years back.
Are are we now Ok with that?
The old quote comes to mind about giving up a little freedom to ensure liberty deserve neither.
How is this different from the Gestapo torturing American POW’s In WWII? And dont give me argument about non-combatants. Wrong for one is wrong for all.
If they are is our custody they should have our legal rights. Otherwise we are no better than “they” are.
Oh and I am a white Protestant American citizen, miitary vet, can trace my family back to 1668, and support the NRA. My father was military and my son is currently on active duty and just returned from the Mid-East. Where goes GW fit into that? Ever since 9/11 we are becoming a police state all in the name of security.
Report thisBy antispin, December 11, 2007 at 10:08 pm #
Scott Burgwin,
I’d go further and suggest that “Yani” and “David” are in fact spooks. How could one refer to the Pearl case as “simple.” Only a simpleton or a psyops would do that. These spooks have unlimited and unaccountable resources to advance their demented view of “American” (see international corporations) hegemony over the world.
Report thisBy flogger-blogger, December 11, 2007 at 10:03 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
To be clear:
Pearl was sacrificed and used as a cause-celebre because he was getting too close to the ISI-Taliban-Al-CIA-duh nexus - too close to a knowing enough to expose the phony Global War Of Terror - tapes have been destroyed and interrogators gagged because some of what they’ve squeezed out points to this too - moreover, the torture is very much a psy-op targeted at everyone, everywhere - to terrorize the entire world - you could be next
Report thisBy Scott Burgwin, December 11, 2007 at 9:45 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The fact that he said that some important information was obtained from the torture is the disinformation, I believe. Terror plots were stopped because of the information, supposedly. This is one of those toss off lines that probably can never be verified- also it may be meant for the Al-qaeda types- a pissing contest where by we tell them that their guy was weak.
Report thisIt is hard to trust anything that comes even remotely from the direction of this administration, and certainly the CIA.
By Yani, December 11, 2007 at 8:31 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Mr. Non Credo,
Some very real ticking time bomb scenarios come to mind that you so want to ignore. They are real and present. This does not mean torture is needed to get information but the scenario is very real.
Take the simple example of the journalist Daniel Pearl. The events, threats and outcome. People who were aware of his location were in custody but refused to give the information knowing he was to be killed. This could have been you or someone close to you. In that case, I am very sure you would have a different position.
In case you forgot, you can google the video of his brutal beheading. What is more sickening is people like you who want to pretend this is not real. You act like you are an expert on all things related to this but I think you are just ignorant of it and really have no idea what you are talking about.
Report thisBy Tom, December 11, 2007 at 8:22 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Looks like this Former CIA agent John Kiriakou belongs or supports al-Qaida. He is should be punished for revealing the information.
Report thisBy David, December 11, 2007 at 8:03 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
So, this guy wasn’t actually harmed (physically) in the Waterboarding “episode”?
Yet “we” gained valuable information as a result of it.
Hm… I can’t help but think of the .... uummm.... THOUSANDS of innocent American’s that died on 09/11 at the hands of people like him.
Report thisBy cann4ing, December 11, 2007 at 7:38 pm #
There you have it. Time to impeach, to repeal the immunity provided by the Military Commissions Act and to initiate a new Nuremberg Tribunal, this time out of Washington D.C.
Report thisBy Terry Thomas, December 11, 2007 at 7:31 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Is this guy selling the idea torture or confessing to the crime?
Report thisBy Kwagmyre, December 11, 2007 at 7:19 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Don Stivers #119548
“When Bush said “We do not torture!” was he lying?”
When GEORGE TENET(who OBVIOUSLY had to know what was goin’ on behind the scenes) declared “We do not torture!” was he lying?
Report thisBy QuyTran, December 11, 2007 at 5:31 pm #
Never trust anyones who’ve been working as CIA agents
Report thisBy Don Stivers, December 11, 2007 at 5:12 pm #
When Bush said “We do not torture!” was he lying?
Report thisBy antispin, December 11, 2007 at 4:57 pm #
http://www.moonofalabama.org/ speculates this is another sort of shot across the bow from warring camps in the CIA/WH. In this case, I don’t feel like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It’s more of a “hope the enemies kill eachother off” feeling.
Report thisBy Revere, December 11, 2007 at 4:44 pm #
No Surprise. This perverse homo is a reflection of the Browns Shirts of the 30’s. The 100 year war on terrorism will sway the weak into believing this abomination is justifiable.
Report thisBy P. T., December 11, 2007 at 4:21 pm #
Torturing U.S. occupation troops in order to gain information could save lives.
Report thisBy P. T., December 11, 2007 at 4:12 pm #
The former CIA agent is confessing to a crime. Who at the CIA authorized him to talk, and why, despite the agreement that agents sign? This looks like a CIA disinformation campaign.
Report this