#117105 by Tony Wicher on 11/30 at 11:32 am

Well, Tony W.

Israel is a Democracy !

Out of a population of nearly 7 million, about 1.4 million—- 20 per cent of the population—- are non-Jews (approximately 1.2 millon Muslims,  130,000 Christians and 100,000 Druze.

Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote.  Arabs currently hold 9 seats in th 120-seat Knesset.  Arabs have held and hold currently various government posts ( which I can list, for sure).  An Arab is also a Supreme Court Justice.  In October of 2006, an Arab professor was named Vice President of Haifa University.

Arabic,like Hebrew is an official language in Israel.
In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose.

There are many Arab physicians and nurses in Israel.

If the more than 55 countries that make up the Organization of the Islamic Conference are entitled to recognition as Muslim states, and if the 22 members of the Arab League are universally accepted as Arab states, why should anyone balk at acknowledging Israel as the world’s lone Jewish state?

In fact, there are many countries in which national identity and religion are linked. Argentinian law mandates government support for the Roman Catholic faith. Queen Elizabeth II is the supreme governor of the Church of England. In the Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan, the constitution proclaims Buddhism the nation’s “spiritual heritage.” The prevailing religion in Greece,” declares Section II of the Greek Constitution, “is that of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ.”

Re #117091 by Howard on 11/30 at 10:39 am
(247 comments total)

“Says you, “no Jewish state”.  Are not the 22 Arab states Islamic?”

Well, some are more Islamic than others. Iraq was secular under Saddam; he repressed the Islamists. Iran was secular under the Shah (Iran is not Arab, however). But you see, there can be no Islamic democracy as there can be no Jewish democracy. So when you say there are 22 Islamic states, why not 1 Jewish one, you are saying, “Why can’t Israel be a theocracy like they are”? You are saying that Israel should be allowed to be as undemocratic as they are. Well, I’m an American. I believe in democracy. I believe Israel should only be supported if it is a democracy. Right now it is not one, and should no more be supported by the U.S. than Saudi Arabia or the Sudan.

Also, Howard, we cannot just “leave Israel alone”. Israel is an artificial country that only exists by virtue of vast U.S. military, economic and diplomatic support, and that is very bad for the United States. I think the U.S. SHOULD leave Israel alone, in the sense of withholding any further economic, military or diplomatic support, and voting against Israel and with the rest of the world in the United Nations, unless Israel agrees to give up Zionism for democracy.

re #117091 by Howard on 11/30 at 10:39 am
(247 comments total)

“You’re dreaming like a you-no-what with your prediction of no Israel or Zionists in 20 years.

And your classification of Israel as an ‘abberation’ is erroneous.

More like a beacon in the night for all nations of the world.”
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Yes, Howard, I have the audacity to dream that Israel will some day be a country which is a true democracy, where Jews and non-Jews and all people will be truly equal. Such an Israel will be the true Zion and a beacon of light for the world. Right now Israel is leading the world to violence, war and destruction.

re:#117082 by Tony Wicher on 11/30 at 10:09 am
(417 comments total)

Tony W.  says:

Sorry, no Jewish state. We don’t need any Islamic states either. What we need is democracy. Israel has not been there for a few thousand years. It has been there since 1948, the blink of an eye in the history of the Jewish people. It is an aberration. In twenty years there will be no Israel and no Zionists.

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Says you, “no Jewish state”.  Are not the 22 Arab states Islamic? They have 800 times the land mass of Israel.  There is only one Jewish state.  I don’t think they need your ok to exist or stick around.

At least Israel is a democratic country. By any measure. After conquering the land in about 1250 B.C., Jews ruled it for more than 1,300 years and have maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews.  Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths and maintained in good order at Israel’s expense.

You’re dreaming like a you-no-what with your prediction of no Israel or Zionists in 20 years.

And your classification of Israel as an ‘abberation’ is erroneous.
More like a beacon in the night for all nations of the world.

Re #117079 by 1drees on 11/30 at 10:00 am

1drees,

Although I agree with the point you make, I profoundly disagree with the way you make it. I like Howard. He is not a “liar”. He is saying what he really believes. Of course, I think he has been brainwashed by Zionist propaganda, and I have been trying to de-program him. But this is not the way to go about it. On the contrary, the way you talk to him will do nothing but entrench him more firmly in his position. Your post sounds hateful, whereas Howard is merely naive. As long as anti-Zionist people behave as you do, the conflict will continue, because every violent word or deed justifies the Zionist position. Listen to Desmond Tutu. In him there is no hate, there is no violence. You should apologize to Howard.

The on source that has been correct about everthing happening in the Middle East with 100% accuracy is the May 15th Prophecy

Below is a small excerpt from the May 15th Prophecy declaration the Israeli - Palestinians “peace” deal

“Israel, Britain and the United States seeing their position weaken will sue for peace

Last Day Watchers you will see before the 1st seal is open, the initial infestation of the placement of power through the Ummah by the spirit of iniquity emanating from Iran of those 3 nations it is allotted to uproot (Iraq, Lebanon and Syria)
“

Do a Google search of the May 15th Prophecy and you will see for your self

or go to
http://lastdaywatchers.blogspot.com/

In my last comment I should have said: in twenty years there will be no Jewish state and no Zionists. There will be a democratic country in the area now called “Israel” by Israelis and “Palestine” by Palestinians. What this country will be called will be up to the residents. I suggest they compromise on neither. My personal suggestion is “The Holy Land”.

Re #117066 by Howard on 11/30 at 9:16 am

Sorry, no Jewish state. We don’t need any Islamic states either. What we need is democracy. Israel has not been there for a few thousand years. It has been there since 1948, the blink of an eye in the history of the Jewish people. It is an aberration. In twenty years there will be no Israel and no Zionists.

Re #116913 by P. T. on 11/29 at 4:51 pm

Thanks for this link. I find the speech by Desmond Tutu even more inspiring. Long live the Bish!!!

Why no Jewish state? No one needs a 23rd Arab islamic state.  Jordan is 87% Palestinian already.
Little Israel can just be left alone. Been around for few thousand years.

Give ‘em a break, already.

“Olmert warns of ‘end of Israel’ 
Mr Bush wants a Middle East peace deal by the end of 2008
Israel’s Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said failure to negotiate a two-state solution with the Palestinians would spell the end of the State of Israel.
He warned of a “South African-style struggle” which Israel would lose if a Palestinian state was not established…

Mr Olmert said it was not the first time he had articulated his fears about the demographic threat to Israel as a Jewish state from a faster growing Palestinian population.

He made similar comments in 2003 when justifying the failed strategy of unilateral withdrawals from Israeli-occupied land which holds large Palestinian populations.

“If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished,” Mr Olmert is quoted saying in Haaretz newspaper”
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YES!!!!!!!!!! That is exactly what is needed in Israel/Palestine: a “South African-style struggle for equal voting rights”. Precisely. It will mean the end of the state of Israel as a Jewish state. It will NOT mean the death of one single Israeli, or that a single Israeli will have to leave the country; what it will mean is the transformation of Israel from a Jewish state to a real democracy, just as South Africa was transformed. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. This can be done, if Israelis make up their mind to do it. They can negotiate their way to peace and democracy as the Afrikaners did. There should be no Jewish state, no Palestinian state. Democracy is the one and only answer.

Before talking peace destroy all NUCLEAR ARSENALS.

They would like security first and foremost. And that is a most reasonable goal. First base. For sure.

I do not believe Abbas can deliver that yet. Hope we are all surprised.

In agreeing to move toward a permanent status agreement with the Palestinians, Israeli negotiators have left the Jewish state between a rock and hard place. On the one hand, they must attempt to build momentum in the peace process. At the same time, they must brace for a series of terror attacks and attempts to sabotage the peace process.

And what has happened in ‘peace’ talks like this in the past? Whether the American administration is Republican or Democrat, it pressures Israel for concessions — since the Arabs won’t make any.  Prisoner releases precede each summit; territorial handovers come under discussion.

Arab leaders and their representatives assume we are all sufficiently honored if they just show up. We hear no end of nonsense about the great political risks they’re taking,etc.  We’re suckers for any fat guy in a white robe with an oil can.

Israelis want peace more than their neighbors. That’s for sure.  Hard to do though when rockets arriving daily from Gaza.

The good news is that it looks like Israel and Syria are finally going to sit down and talk about the Golan Heights next year. Good move on Israel’s part. They will certainly move quicker with Syria to come to an agreement with just this one issue, but the Israeli government is too weak now to follow through with developing a strong peace plan and statehood for the Palestinians.
13 Martyrs at http://13martyrs.blogspot.com/

•  …..US President George W Bush called Annapolis, the first substantive Arab-Israeli peace talks in seven years, a “hopeful beginning” for Mid-East peace….

But Georgie….isn’t this because YOU said YOUSELF…at LEAST seven years ago, that this wasn’t a priority AT ALL? Georgie, didn’t you make it ABUDANTLY CLEAR, that the only ‘two-state’ solution would be a ONE-state solution, as in ISREAL takes ALL, with NO PALESTINIANS anywhere in the area?

And, if memory serves me, the ONLY thing you’ve ever said about ANY of this –georgie boy- like when Israel was carpet bombing Lebanon, or building their apartheid wall, or starving Garza, or bulldozing the West Bank, was that “Israel had a right to ‘defend’ itself”. That’s all I can ever remember hearing you say georgie boy.

And now Olmert comes along and claims that unless there can be a ‘2-state’ solution, Israel (as a JEWISH state) won’t survive. Well, HE might think of that as a ‘warning’, but others might see it as PROMISE, (though not likely to be fulfilled, seeing as how Israel as a JEWISH state wouldn’t have survived this long if we taxpaying Americans hadn’t been handing over billions of our own dollars).
So Olmert, is this another THREAT, or another lying PROMISE?

And, what took you and georgie so long to figure this out?

If a ‘two-state solution’ collapses? Oh PLEASE!!!

“...the demographic threat to Israel as a Jewish state from a faster growing Palestinian population….”

How these unwanted European migrants can manage to see the birth of children as a “threat” takes us right back to the days of the evil king Herod and his extermination of all ‘newborn’ (or under one year-old?) Jewish boys in a desperate attempt to eliminate a new messiah as a “threat” to his rule.

What is different today? The Jews are still moaning about waitng for a messiah who will now NEVER come. They didn’t want the last one - so they won’t get another! Are they going to go out into the villages now and murder all the children??? They have managed to kill quite a few already - see “children of Palestine” http://poetryforpalestine.spaces.live.com/

He is only facing the inevitable tsunami of world opinion.

Only in the US could Olmert make a statement like that and expect to be believed.  He probably believes that it is still a secret that Isreal has nuclear weapons.

Noam Chomsky exposes the Annapolis hoax.  Click http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/27/not_through_annapolis_noam_chomsky_says