With the Iowa caucus fast approaching, the candidates are getting less shy about flinging a little mud. Take this jab from Barack Obama, for example: “I think the fact of the matter is that Sen. Clinton is claiming basically the entire eight years of the Clinton presidency as her own, except for the stuff that didn’t work out, in which case she says she has nothing to do with it. ... “
ABC News:
Last week, Clinton—apparently feeling the heat—took one of her sharpest jabs yet at Obama, mocking his claim that his childhood years in Indonesia provide him with unique insight into foreign affairs. “Now voters will judge whether living in a foreign country at the age of 10 prepares one to face the big, complex international challenges the next president will face,” Clinton said.
Obama fired back in an interview with “Nightline” co-anchor Terry Moran: “You know, we must be doing pretty well in Iowa. She wasn’t paying much attention to what I said before then.”
And then, Obama went out of his way to belittle Clinton’s experience as first lady.
“I think the fact of the matter is that Sen. Clinton is claiming basically the entire eight years of the Clinton presidency as her own, except for the stuff that didn’t work out, in which case she says she has nothing to do with it,” Obama said, and added, referring to his relationship with his wife, Michelle, “There is no doubt that Bill Clinton had faith in her and consulted with her on issues, in the same way that I would consult with Michelle, if there were issues. ... On the other hand, I don’t think Michelle would claim that she is the best qualified person to be a United States senator by virtue of me talking to her on occasion about the work I’ve done.”
With this line of attack, Obama is openly calling Clinton out on one of the basic arguments of her candidacy and her career—that her experience at Bill Clinton’s side in the White House and before make her the most qualified person in the race.
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By Douglas Chalmers, November 28, 2007 at 3:21 pm #
116602 by felicity on 11/28 at 9:59 am: “Could it be that lawyers do know how to break laws and get away with it making them invaluable to a corrupt administration and a corrupt legislature and a corrupt judiciary…”
Worse, felicity. What are judges but lawyers with an extra degree (in jurisprudence)? Thus, they have a closed shop, an elite society, and they indulge in patriarcal authority. Its the boys’ club in its original and most pernicious form - even the women are part of it as honorary good “boys” or old “boys”, uhh!
In the separation of powers of the state, they do have authority and it overlaps, infiltrates and permeates the legislature because that is where THEIR LAWS are made. It also incestuously permeates the executive and administration because they are both essentially full of people with law degrees. It is an evil secret society!!!
Thus the state is usurped by the very people we depend on. They rule over us just as do the rich from behind the scenes (the ‘other’ evil secret society!). If you have ever watched judges in their courtrooms, you know that they can manipulate their own ‘laws’ and ‘court rules’ to please themselves…... they are forever playing a game just as the politicians do, but in their own way and for their own reasons.
Report thisBy felicity, November 28, 2007 at 2:59 pm #
#116433 by Douglas. How right you are. Michael Chertoff, a lawyer, the head of Homeland Security? Go figure. Could it be that lawyers do know how to break laws and get away with it making them invaluable to a corrupt administration and a corrupt legislature and a corrupt judiciary?
Report thisBy Mike, November 28, 2007 at 1:03 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I live in N.Y. and carpetbagger Hillary has done nothing for this state except use it as a springboard for her candidacy. She’s all talk and no action. She speaks out of both sides of her mouth. You never know where she stands from one day to the next. She’s as slick as Willie was. I can understand many Americans’ desire for a woman president but don’t just vote for her just because she’s a woman. If people want a woman for president then for God’s sake, please let’s at least wait for a woman with a little integrity. Hillary is as phoney as phoney gets.
What this country needs most is a break from the Bushes and the Clintons two of the most corrupt administrations in American history.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, November 28, 2007 at 12:19 am #
#116305 by felicity on 11/27 at 11:23 am: “Hillary’s recent declaration of expertise in foreign affairs and managing the domestic economy shocked the hell out of me….”
As both she and Bill were lawyers first, why should Hillary know any less than Bill? Lawyers think they know everything because they have some traininng in philosophy as well as court procedures. Its more like expertise in making excuses, avoiding responsibility and taking all the credit, uhh. See?
That fits them perfectly for politics but the recent Australian federal election experience points firmly to the fact that a conservative party full of lawyers is an inevitable disaster and that a diplomat who is friendly to teenagers, will give them a future and speaks Chinese is far more successful as leader of the nation.
Note Sam’s comment on Eleanor Roosevelt and the fact that its often the First Lady who is the diplomatic mastermind. The Taiwan ROC administration from 1949 led by Chiang Kai-shek comes to mind as he and the Kuomintang (KMT) had failed to defeat Mao and the communists and retreated to Taiwan but it was his wife, Madame Chiang, who successfully lobbied Washington (and Eleanor Roosevelt) to save Taiwan economically and militarily. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soong_May-ling
I’m with the comments of Marjorie, Kristine and Sue on this, though. He’ll never be the woman that Hillary is, ha ha….. but his wife Michelle might be one day. There is definitely something that he needs to learn…... like Michelle might run for office herself one day, first as a senator and then as a presidential candidate, ha ha!!! http://www.barackobama.com/about/michelle_obama/
She has most probably done more already for the community than Barack and, by the time her chance comes, she will be better qualified and more experienced for the job than he is now. Soon Michelle might be forced to realise that she would be better off voting for Hillary in the meantime…......
Report thisBy Sam, November 27, 2007 at 5:57 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
I think Obama is discounting the very important role First Ladies have played in history. In the 1930s and 1940s, Eleanor Roosevelt played a crucial role in the formation the United Nations and was a strong advocate of civil rights. In many areas, she was a superior a Statesman to her husband, and she was certainly involved beyond mere occasional consultations.
While there’s no way to really tell what degree of influence Sen. Clinton had as far as policy deliberation in the Clinton Administration, my guess is that it was fairly significant, and that we should take her seriously when she says she was involved. For me, this is actually a strike against her since it implicates her complicity in all the Clinton Administration’s various crimes and failures, which Obama sort of points out.
On the other hand, I can’t help but feel like Barack is being disingenuous here. Let’s say that instead of Bill Clinton as President from ‘93 to ‘01, it was Michelle Obama, and Barack Obama was the First Man. Do you think he would consider his time in the Michelle Obama Administration to count as experience, or do you think he would dismiss his experience as occasional consultations between husband and wife? My guess is the former, but it appears he’s applying a different set of standards to Hillary.
Report thisBy thomas billis, November 27, 2007 at 5:49 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Being anybodies spouse qualifies you for nothing unless one can tangibly show how it has.A start would be to release the e mails from the Clinton library.If everything is the way you say what is the problem.Monica Lewinsky knows her way around the White House no one is proposing her for President.Extrapolate to your own lives.You and your spouse engage in pillow talk about the events of the day. You offer some advice and that makes you qualified do go in and do the spouse’s job.
Report thisBy desertdude, November 27, 2007 at 5:20 pm #
Hillary Clinton,Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Is this country nuts. She dosen’t even know what she stands for.
Report thisBy felicity, November 27, 2007 at 4:23 pm #
Hillary’s recent declaration of expertise in foreign affairs and managing the domestic economy shocked the hell out of me. Not only is it baseless, it opened her up to challenges from her opponents that she was bound to have a hard time combatting - not a smart move. (It also revealed a certain hubris - a characteristic which ultimately sunk her health-care debacle.)
It also scares me. If you believe yourself an expert in a particular field, you’re inclined to discount advice from others. Not a good characteristic in a President. All we need is another know-it-all-know-nothing occupying the seat of American power.
Report thisBy Dani Kim, November 27, 2007 at 4:00 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
“Obama makes a terrific point. If you define the actual roles or positions held in the oval office, the President verses the 1st Lady, there is very little in common.”
That’s true, although like most positions, the presidency included, the job of the first lady is what you make of it. Vice President, too. Plenty of individuals occupying all three of those positions did considerably less then Hillary during her tenure, although she might be embellishing her contributions. In any case this is all distraction, which is a shame because the dems have one of the strongest line-up of candidates in years. If Obama and Edwards don’t make the nomination they both have a good shot at taking the Unity08.com primary, which would match them with a conservative VP. Obama is already beating every republican candidate in the polls so this could be his year, even outside the main parties in a place like Unity08.
It would be interesting to see what Bill does with the position of “First husband!”
Report thisBy Ralph Macchio, November 27, 2007 at 3:55 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
YEAH! it’s not like I’m Mr. Miyagi.. I’m the KARATE KID!!
p.s. my dad’s bigger than yours.
Report thisBy Sue, November 27, 2007 at 3:50 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
She’s been in the governors house, the presidents house and the senate house. She’s been associated with politics since her college years. She’s bright, very ambitious and withstood much criticism throughout, especially from the extreme right wing sexist’s who hate her for what she’s tried to accomplish and maybe even a little frightened of her because of what she has accomplished.
She’s been through it all and she keeps on forging forward. Made stronger to continue on what she does best and what she truly believes in.
Expirience? pl.. ease!
Barack Obama, although a very elegant and passionate speaker with good ideas and good qualities does not possess anywhere near this record. His wife, Michelle?, well, she’s just that, his wife, and since she has had as much expirience in politics as he has, that’s where it ends.
If there was ever a time for a woman president, the time is right now and Hillary has been patient, has done her homework and has proven that she can not only be strong, but also can lead this country with a “been there done that” knowing attitude. Because she has!
She’ll be great!
GO HILLARY!
Report thisBy Kristine, November 27, 2007 at 3:26 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Obama’s claim going into this campaign was that he was above all these petty insults, that he was going to run on merit alone and not stoop to attacking his opponents. I understand that’s hard to do when they are attacking him, but he’s doing a pretty terrible job of keeping his word on that one and it makes me wonder what else about his “I’m so different from everyone else running” campaign is a deceptive, carefully designed lie.
On the comment itself - what a stupid thing to say. I think anybody would agree that spending 8 years in the white house heavily involved with the responsibilities of being in office will give someone some legitimate experience. Whether that experience is a good thing or a bad thing, and how his different experiences put him in a unique position is what he should be commenting on, not the truth of it.
It’s interesting to see who cracks under pressure at this stage of the game.
Report thisBy Margaret from Portland, Oregon, November 27, 2007 at 2:21 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
I will not vote for Guiliani nor any Republician, I will vote forever wins the primary if it is Clinton great, if it is Obama still great, I think it will be a wonder if he wins, but not having experience is a moot point, Bush really did not have any actual experience in running a country and one wonders if he actually is running this country.
Texas does not count, the area is so corrupt and the real people who run Texas is the oil businessmen, all other people in the state don’t count, and a large percentage probably have trouble voting for a reliable governor, immagine voting for a man because someone said Ms. Richards was a lesbian, seems that one wants to belittle a woman just throw aroung some negative words with little substance.
Back to Obama he will get my vote if he beats Hillary because Hillarly is running on her husbands name, she is well qualified but so was John Kerry and so is John Edwards because being President of these united states is also about sound judgement, and Hillary or Obama will get my vote.
Report thisBy Rick King, NH, November 27, 2007 at 1:41 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Obama makes a terrific point. If you define the actual roles or positions held in the oval office, the President verses the 1st Lady, there is very little in common. They are two totally different “jobs”. His point was only that Clinton uses her time as ist lady as a stepping stone of governmental experience. The first lady as defined in the legislature, is a house wife with Benny’s!
Report thisBy anonymous, November 27, 2007 at 12:19 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
she probably thinks she was good in bed because Bill got so much nooky, too
Report thisBy Outraged, November 27, 2007 at 12:16 pm #
Petty garbage!!!!!! Where’s the Beef?
Report thisBy scottknick, November 27, 2007 at 12:11 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Neither does being the son of a President. . .D’oh!
Report thisBy Pacrat, November 27, 2007 at 11:27 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Barack - get with it. Let’s just compare Obamma’s work in the Senate with Hillary’s - she has been relected and he hasn’t even finished a term - representing a far more significant state than Illinois (with pardons to the state).
Forget the fact that she lived in the White House for eight years in addition and traveled to many critically important countries and met many of the world leaders and their wives.
Can we get on with a campaign that doesn’t insult our intelligence?
Report thisBy Aegrus, November 27, 2007 at 10:44 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
“Do you really talk to your wife on occasion about the work youve done. How very big of you. Seems a little dismissive of the little woman thats out campaigning her ass off for you. And youre supposed to be so good with words and all ”
I’ve seen many comments specifically addressing how “It’s time for a woman president” and other statements that essentially say, “Hey, Hillary is a woman, and it’s time we get ours.” How selfish in this extremely difficult time that a person would put their gender over the sake of our country and others overseas.
Obama’s comment was a little haphazard, but the underlying truth is that those years in the White House can only marginally express experience. Why so many heralded her as the “experienced” candidate from the get-go is beyond me. Also, as I have stated before, why would we want someone experienced in an office involved corrupted for the last 30 years?
It is something of ethical value in the absence of racial clamor about Obama. The man, “not black enough” for the black vote does well across the spectrum of people in America. I believe he has an earnest desire to change our system, and has a track record of working on these changes to an extent. Will he be America’s savior? No. Obama is a step in the right direction, though.
Report thisBy Marjorie L. Swanson, November 27, 2007 at 10:18 am #
Do you really talk to your wife on occasion about the work you’ve done. How very big of you. Seems a little dismissive of the little woman that’s out campaigning her ass off for you. And you’re supposed to be so good with words and all…
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