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Ear to the Ground

Romney, Giuliani Woo Religious Right

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Posted on Oct 20, 2007
Romney
AP photo / Jose Luis Magana

Romney went a’courtin’ and he did ride:  Mitt Romney speaks at the Values Voters Summit in Washington, D.C., on Friday.

One by one, the Republican presidential contenders are going a’courtin’, stating their positions on gay marriage, abortion, religion and other high-priority issues of a crucial conservative constituency:  the religious right.  On Friday, Mitt Romney made his case to the Values Voters Summit, gingerly handling the matter of his Mormon faith, while Giuliani pitched woo on Saturday.


The Hill:

Romney talked about what he sees as the importance of two-parent homes, the threat of gay marriage and his anti-abortion rights stance.

“Now, I don’t have to tell the Family Research Council and Focus on the Family that the American family is under stress, under attack,” Romney said.

The former governor also addressed his change of heart on the abortion issue, something that has faded as an issue for Romney’s presidential campaign since he first got in the race.

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By feetofclay, October 22, 2007 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

rage said-
“The gospel of supply-side Jesus of the Church of Trickle-Down Economics so gingerly justifies the conniving neo-Whig tenets of global empire, xenophobia, bigotry, greed, an antichristian sense of entitlement, the unctuous lust-induced discontentment that breeds canting envy and naked avarice, prideful sanctimony, shameless hypocrisy, all manner of inhumane perversion and abuse, and, finally, the perfidious whoring of Christ’s Bride, the church, to the godless beast of the state through the schemes of faith-based initiatives and Christianized oligarchic hegemony masquerading as church missions. This small percentage of mainstream church attending registered voters are just buzzed off that too few outside their hives wish to indulge in the divisive whims of their exclusive shared global domination fantasy.”

Great post! Captures televangelism so well! Nice job, rage!

I really don’t understand why Republican candidates feel such a need to reach out to televangelists. It’s not good for the rest of America.

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By RED GREEN, October 22, 2007 at 6:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Loaves and fishes..it’s in the BOOK. If the government came to it’s senses for a bit ,and taxed the organised superstitious,a great muffler would then be applied. Also , a great revenue stream would be created. Make them pay their share of the crusade. I wonder, just how did the CHURCH get around the responsiblity of taxes?

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By Louise, October 21, 2007 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

#108545 by RAE

RAE, I love your fish analogy!

” ... nearly colorless and virtually indistinguishable from one another, and when the lead fish turns, they all turn! “

Brings to mind a picture. Thousands of swirling desperate masses, their eyes bulging! Helpless to do anything but press against each other as the net drags them to the surface. Where they are unceremoniously dumped on the deck.

Gasping for air, they wait for slow but certain death! 

Except for the smart one who learned how to think for himself and swam the other way!

Hmmm. Do you suppose that’s why some Christians see the fish as some kind of symbol?

I never did understand that one.

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By rage, October 21, 2007 at 10:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“If we want to diminish the radical rights influence, we need to help these people make the distinction between “God” and religious leaders/church.  Until they are regrounded in this way, they will continue to do what “God” asks.  No matter how much they read, how unreasonable it sounds, how much suffering they will endure, the sincere Christian will follow “Gods” direction.  The sad thing is, some of these people are very nice people. And they’re being had.”
#108577 by Outraged on 10/20 at 11:39 pm

That is a great point.

Most Followers are following men with agendas, or a potential pot of gold at the end of some rainbow few are ever going to reach or attain. The unwitting faithful are being spiritually abused and financially raped by ravenous wolves in sheep’s clothing who feel their ability to twist Bible passages Sunday after Sunday somehow entitles them to unlimited access to every bank account, purse, and billfold ever opened.

Sadly, in the end, the church-attending devotees of the reactionary right are always going to vote their schism of belief, with no regard shown for the issues of the day. Rarely do their pastors intellectually address the issues of the day. Most of their pastors are dedicated to spreading the word about get-rich-quick schemes, Republican talking points discussed on Faux Noise, and the updated gospel of their supply-side Jesus who wants America to liberally sow monetary seeds of faith into the ministry that the man of God can afford a luxury jet to deliver the good news of prosperity into all the world. The gospel of supply-side Jesus of the Church of Trickle-Down Economics so gingerly justifies the conniving neo-Whig tenets of global empire, xenophobia, bigotry, greed, an antichristian sense of entitlement, the unctuous lust-induced discontentment that breeds canting envy and naked avarice, prideful sanctimony, shameless hypocrisy, all manner of inhumane perversion and abuse, and, finally, the perfidious whoring of Christ’s Bride, the church, to the godless beast of the state through the schemes of faith-based initiatives and Christianized oligarchic hegemony masquerading as church missions.

This idolatry of our flag-wrapped values and cross-bearing heritage, globally presented as the cultural, ethical, and moral foundation of God’s Christian America, is an irrational, outrageous, unconstitutional lie. Perpetuating this myth of national theism is the intractable wind sown by a caustic petulant smattering of willful pew-riding drones from unscrupulous right winged mega-hives. This small percentage of mainstream church attending registered voters are just buzzed off that too few outside their hives wish to indulge in the divisive whims of their exclusive shared global domination fantasy. For the survival of our most beloved democratic republic, we need to stop pandering to these fanatic zealots, and REIGN THEM IN! The religious right warrants no greater voice or inroad in the electoral process than any other faction of American society.

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By cyrena, October 21, 2007 at 4:17 am Link to this comment

Reply to #108577 by Outraged Part I of II

Outraged,

Thank you ever so much for articulating this so very, very, well. I plan to share it with those same -very nice people- who in fact have (and often DO) GO AGAINST THEIR OWN BEST JUDGEMENT, when the God concept is thrown in. I know so many of them.

Actually, I saved a particular e-mail from an acquaintance who regularly sends me the “Word for the Day” and a “Morning or Afternoon” prayer. I would list some of the sources, but it can wait. I mention it only because in one of these “Words of the Day” (which generally begins with a quote from the Bible either testament) and then begins to spin it in whatever form has been determined to ‘apply’ to everyday modern life. (these people believe themselves to be very ‘modern’ in their approach to all of this).

One of these very specifically DIRECTS the reader, -NOT TO BELIEVE WHAT THEIR OWN MIND IS TELLING THEM”!

I’m serious. That’s nearly verbatim, though I will look for it, so that it can be read in the full context that it was ‘delivered’. I about had a heat attack. That’s how much it appalled me.

Another one suggested that if you ‘believed’ in the Lord, and trusted in His ‘word’ that it would allow you ‘special favors’ that might not otherwise be available to other people. (presumably non-believers, or just people who didn’t place their unconditional trust in God). Then, it gave an EXAMPLE of these possibilities…One of them, (and this is close enugh to verbatim) was that one MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A JOB FOR WHICH THEY WERE NOT THE MOST QUALIFIED. Or, maybe it didn’t even say ‘most’ qualified, but rather, a job for which you weren’t qualified.

Well, THAT just scared the living shit out of me!! And, it might not have, say 20 years ago. Because, back then, it would have been more of an ‘annoyance’...because it’s something that I’ve seen happen in the corporate world for ages, and I’m sure we all have. People get ‘jobs’ all of the time, based on WHO they know, (the politics) rather than ‘what’ they know. (the actual job). But, once I realized that, it didn’t trouble me. It only meant that I wouldn’t bother to attempt to ‘compete’ for a job, based on the criteria of ‘who I knew” – or could kiss up to’ rather than WHAT I knew, which should have been the primary criteria. So, that was a lesson learned. And, it also relived me of having to consider contorting myself to do something (kissing up) that would have simply been an assault on my sanity.

BUT, it wasn’t enough of a lesson. I say that because at the time, I didn’t see any ‘danger’ in these people holding these jobs for which they were not qualified. If anything, it was an annoyance, because what it meant was that others would end up taking up the slack, or in some cases, having to go to the trouble of finding someway to otherwise ‘occupy’ these people, so that the rest of us could actually get the work done.  And of course this other ‘person’ was still getting a paycheck. The common excuse for such people went something like this, “Oh well, he/she is such a ‘nice’ person.” (that was not ALWAYS true, but sometimes – yes). Then, one day another co-worker responded with, “Well, we’ve already got enough ‘nice’ people working here, and I would prefer to just have some more folks who know what the hell they’re DOING!” (I silently shared his opinion).

TBC

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By cyrena, October 21, 2007 at 4:16 am Link to this comment

Part II of II reply to Reply to #108577 by Outraged

But, as my own ‘wisdom’ accumulated, and circumstances have continued to present themselves, I’ve come to realize how extremely DANGEROUS this is. I could point to any number things of which we are all familiar, but the current Justice Department stands out most clearly. We all know that the Justice Department has become, (under the administration of the religious right), staffed in out-of-proportion numbers with these religious ideologues. Many are graduates of Pat Roberts’ Liberty University, (I think that’s the name) which is a law school that ranks maybe in the lower 10 of all law schools. This school produced (among others) the likes of Monica Goodling. I can’t remember her title/position now, but we know that she was very influential in the hiring and firing of US Attorneys. She later admitted that it she may have posed some ‘inappropriate’ questions, like when she asked one interviewee if he “had ever cheated on his wife”.

So, when I read the thing from my former colleague (in the form of a prayer or word for the day) which suggested that one’s trust in God would allow them ‘special favors” such as a job for which they were not qualified, (or not the –most- qualified) we already had proof – at that point, of just how dangerous this could be. Just as dangerous as being instructed not to believe what your own mind is telling you. And, that WOULD be a requirement, in order to believe –instead- what this shit is suggesting one believe.

And, these are religious people (nice people) who send me this stuff. I should also mention that they are still very much devoted to the concepts of the “Corporation” for which they are still employed. In this case, the Corporation is the ‘leader’ and this same “Corporation” (which monitors ALL company e-mails very closely) no doubt ENCOURAGES this sort of canned communication. When I tried to respond to these particular emails (via the corporate address) they were bounced back. (I wasn’t surprised) And, my response wasn’t even as ‘radical’ as this post might seem. Still, that only solidified what I already knew. These are the ‘Values Voters” and they all send this stuff through the Corporate email system, while other more fundamental ‘truths of reality’ are carefully sifted out.

And yep, it’s scary as hell. Because, these people really do believe. And, the best I can do to counter-contain, is to quote the Bible myself, and provide the interpretation that I believe was intended. That’s a bit annoying for me, seeing as I too, am not a fan of ORGANIZED Religion, and the Bible is simply another book of various authors from thousands of years ago, which has multiple interpretations. But, I come up short with these people, in attempting to explain the difference between ‘religion’ and spirituality. They don’t get it. It’s the either/or mentality. Either you ‘believe’ in God, or you don’t, at least in their assessment.

And, I haven’t found an ‘economy’ way, to get the message across. Sometimes it works in a one-on-one dialog (that has to be continuous…almost feels like I’m playing at psychotherapy) and sometimes it doesn’t. Still, that’s a really hard way to try to get the larger population up to speed.

But, I WILL share your excellent analysis. It can’t hurt, and it might just help. wink

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By Outraged, October 21, 2007 at 12:39 am Link to this comment

Well, there’s Christians and then there’s fundamentalist Christians.  However, from the things I’ve read all mainstream Christians were at one time very fundamentalist or radical in their beliefs.  I don’t think that fundamentalist Christians view THEMSELVES as being unaware of the issues.

The most pressing issue with Christians (or any religion) is the fact that they BELIEVE that their leaders are getting spiritual information from God.  Many times sincere adherents go AGAINST THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT to appease their leaders/church because they believe that to do otherwise would be against God.  They then become overwrought regarding decisions they’ve made that they themselves don’t agree with.  This “ungrounding” only increases their reliance on “God”, who very conveniently presents himself in the form of religious leaders/church.

It seems as though they are unable to make a distinction between God and their leaders/church.  They are convinced that their leaders/church IS God.  In the best case scenario they view the leaders/church as God’s proxy. So they do what “God” asks of them.

Obviously, none of these religious leaders and their ilk are legit, but one musn’t question “God”.  “God” will direct our step.  If you do what “God” asks of you, you will be rewarded.  You will accept ridicule and shame for “God”.  There is almost nothing a sincere Christian won’t do for “God”.

If we want to diminish the radical rights influence, we need to help these people make the distinction between “God” and religious leaders/church.  Until they are regrounded in this way, they will continue to do what “God” asks.  No matter how much they read, how unreasonable it sounds, how much suffering they will endure, the sincere Christian will follow “Gods” direction.  The sad thing is, some of these people are very nice people. And they’re being had.

I often rant about how much I hate religion.  But the thing that’s so awful is ORGANIZED RELIGION and their hold on otherwise perfectly normal people.  Sure…some religious people are assholes, then again, try to name a group of more than six that doesn’t have any assholes.

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By HiveRadical, October 20, 2007 at 11:29 pm Link to this comment

Louise et all,

Why this assumption that those who see the world differently than you are

“SMALL MINDED
MEAN SPIRITED
SHORT SIGHTED
IGNORANT
and
HIGHLY DANGEROUS TO THEIR OWN LIBERTY AND THE PEACE OF REST OF THE WORLD”

?

I submit to you that it’s not “small minded” to believe that an attempt to alter what has been the nominal ideal social unit to be a key and profound issue, in fact an issue foundational to, and deeply affecting the whole of the litany—

“NUCLEAR WORLD WAR
GLOBAL WARMING HAZARDS
INTERNATIONAL FAIR TRADE
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS & PERMANENT FAMINE RELIEF
AIDS & OTHER HORRENDOUS DISEASES
WORLD WIDE POVERTY
ABUSE OF CHILDREN
JUSTICE”

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By cyrena, October 20, 2007 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment

#108527 by RAE on 10/20 and #108531 by Louise
Forgive me ladies, I was so annoyed by the text of this article, that I jumped into a rant before I even read the comments. If I had, I would have recognized that you had both already said the same thing. (or close enough)
•  If the American voters are suckered AGAIN into voting on PHONEY or relatively MINOR non-issues such as “gay marriage,” abortion rights, two-parent families, families under “attack,” then they will get the government they so richly deserve…
The only ‘slight’ disagreement that I have with this, is mostly semantic. I don’t see these as “minor’ non-issues, (gay marriage, abortion rights, two-parent families, etc) I see them as complete NON-issues, that have no place for discussion in politics. Seriously…I cannot, nor have I ever been able to comprehend how or why the subject of ‘abortion’ should even be connected with the concept of ‘rights’ in a political context. Should everyone need permission to undergo medical care/procedure for the amputation of a limb, or the removal of a tumor, or for a vasectomy, or for a breast implant, (now THOSE should probably be outlawed) or anything else, that concerns my body, or anyone else’s body? (none of us being Siamese twins).
I simply do not, and cannot understand how this gets to be ANY person’s business, aside from the person undergoing the procedure and/or making that decision, along with whatever professional is expected to provide the professional service. In other words, WHY OH WHY should I care, as a citizen, if another citizen (whom I don’t know, and will probably never meet) decides to terminate a pregnancy that I will never even be aware of? How does this effect me or the rest of the population? It doesn’t.

Same thing with gay marriage. Should I care that 2 people I’ve never met, and probably never will meet, decide to marry each other? The only reason I’d be likely to care about any two people who decide to marry each other, (whether I know them or not), would be if I wanted to marry one of them myself. (the law doesn’t allow us to all three be married to each other). Now, if a gay/homosexual individual wanted to marry another gay/homosexual individual, would EITHER of them be someone that I would be inclined to marry. Probably not, (at least not in the ‘traditional sense’ of why people allegedly marry) because I’m not homosexual. So obviously, in the traditional sense, (if there is such a thing) I’m not likely to want to marry the partner of my best friend/professional colleague, who happens to be homosexual. That is in part, because I don’t wanna be married to anybody, but also because if I did choose to be married to somebody, it would most likely be to a heterosexual man, just because that would be my preference.

How (somebody from the relg rt please explain this) does that involve anyone other than the people who are married to each other? Explain how this affects me, as a heterosexual, when two other people want to marry each other? How does this affect my own family? My own kids? My own siblings, and my own parents? Just give me some clues here. I cannot make any possible connections. Is it the same reason why Black people and White people couldn’t marry each other? YEP!! That’s what I thought.

I rest my case, and leave you with a repeat of these ‘descriptives’ from Louise
SMALL MINDED
MEAN SPIRITED
SHORT SIGHTED
IGNORANT
and
HIGHLY DANGEROUS TO THEIR OWN LIBERTY AND THE PEACE OF REST OF THE WORLD

Now THIS, I do care about. THIS does affect me.
Meantime, I still don’t give a shit who marries who, (as long as they wanna be married to each other). And, you pro-lifers can direct your energies to the hundreds of thousands of women and children who die as a result of lack of medical care. Mississippi has an infant mortality rate higher than most 3rd world countries. How disgusting is that?

Most powerful nation in the world can’t even provide for safe pregnancies and successful births.

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By cyrena, October 20, 2007 at 9:02 pm Link to this comment

“Now, I don’t have to tell the Family Research Council and Focus on the Family that the American family is under stress, under attack,” Romney said.
Here we go. The American Family. WHO decided who or what the American Family is? What’s the ‘definition of an American Family? Is it 2 parents, (one male, one female) with 3.4 kids, a picket fence, and a Bible on every shelf? Ok, let’s go with that. Rommey uses the absolute “need” for there to be 2 parent households, so…what’s putting that “American Family” under stress and attack?

Well, I can think of a whole bunch of things, (none of them having to do with the Bible, or homosexuality, or abortion…at least not directly). But, I’ll give just one example. Currently fighting in Iraq there are 16,000 SINGLE MOTHERS. WHY they are ‘single’ mothers is less important (in my opinion) than why they are THERE, (6,000 miles away in Iraq) instead of at home in America, taking care of their children. So, while neither Romney or Guiliani will ever address this, maybe some of the “Values Voters” should. So I ask again, who’s VALUES are these, and who decided them, and based on what?

The link below is a story on these single mothers serving in Iraq.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/66/24059

IOW, is THIS not part of the reason why the “American Family” is under attack and stress? Apparently Rommey would prefer to blame it on homosexuality, abortion, a lack of reading of the Bible, (or any other religious text) and the lack of adherence to the “values” that have been established by….we still don’t know. We still don’t know WHO decided what the “values” would be, or why we should all subscribe to them, or if they even make any practical sense.

Back when I believed that the Separation of Church and State was real, this democracy having been established with that in mind, I thought it was one of the best things about our Constitution. Because, while it was intended to allow for the practice of ones’ own religious faith, without punishment from the State, the obvious other side of the same coin, is that the State could not FORCE anyone to practice any one of any strands of religious belief. However, for reasons that would take more than this space to articulate, THAT side of the concept –religious freedom- was never included. In other words, Christians were able to practice their religion without interference from the State, and Christianity became “the law” for EVERYBODY, whether they wanted to practice THAT religion, or ANY OTHER.

And so, non-Christians, (otherwise known as heathens and barbarians) – those being the Native peoples of America, as well as the Native peoples of Africa who were kidnapped and traded as commodities to provide for the economy of the New World, were –by force- ‘converted to Christianity. So much for religious freedom. The concept of ‘religious freedom’ has never allowed for the ‘freedom to be without religion”.

A few hundred years later, and we have the same. We have the Religious Right, (technically another dynamic of the body-politic) determining “values” for the whole, and calling them law.

Religion has become, (in this 21st Century) more dangerous and disastrous to our collective society, than any combination of the ‘worst’ of the ‘worst’ drugs. It is divisive, and intended as a social control. Organized religion, (as opposed to individual spirituality) has done incredible damage throughout history, and continues to do the same now. It represents the epitome of hypocrisy, and these people are to be as feared as any group of religious terrorists. (Bin Laden et al?)

The RR in this USA are no less dangerous to society than the Mullahs/Sheiks of any other fundamentalist ideology. They are far MORE dangerous, because the brainwashed don’t comprehend the sameness.

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RAE's avatar

By RAE, October 20, 2007 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment

Thank’s Louise… “I needed that!”

I neglected to mention that, in my view, ANYONE who condones or supports the outright “Failed Doctrines & Rank Heresies of the Religious Right” (Dr. Hubert Loche) such as the lies and other nonsense spouted by such organizations as the Family Research Council and Focus on the Family, is either mentally ill or mentally and/or emotionally handicapped.

What scares the crap out of me, Louise, is that it appears there are MILLIONS with voting privileges who fall into one of the abovementioned categories!

Many call these folk, SHEEPLES - they’ll follow anywhere they’re led! I think they’re even more like schools of fish - nearly colorless and virtually indistinguishable from one another, and when the lead fish turns, they all turn! It’s when they all turn into the voting booth and choose options that negatively impact on my right to live freely that I get really sweaty armpits.

Clearly, THEY don’t care if they’re easily led around as if they had a ring in their noses, BUT I DO.

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By Louise, October 20, 2007 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment

#108527 by RAE

“SMALL MINDED
MEAN SPIRITED
SHORT SIGHTED
IGNORANT
and
HIGHLY DANGEROUS TO THEIR OWN LIBERTY AND THE PEACE OF REST OF THE WORLD”

RAE, you nailed it!

I hope the Mormons who have already decided to vote for Romney just because he’s Mormon are paying attention. This guy is proving to be as dishonest as any repub presidential wannabe in recent memory. Frankly he’s beginning to remind me a lot of dubya!

Some Mormon friends of mine who ARE paying attention, see him as a disappointment. [Their decorum wont let them say anything harsher]

One of the most fundamental principles these people live their lives by is free agency. Which is why they get along so well with others. Which is why most people don’t know that neighbor they like so much is Mormon, unless they ask. They believe no-one has the right morally or legally, to force a religious standard on others. They also believe firmly in the separation of Church and State. And for good reason. If the State begins to legislate and dictate religious principles, beliefs and standards, ALL churches are in danger of ultimate collapse, or being forced underground. Particularly those Churches that stick to a set of principles that may differ from the wing-nuts who call themselves Values Voters.

Folks whose “Values” put war and violence and force at the head of the list don’t impress anyone [except themselves] no matter how many unborn babies they claim to love.

The only love that counts is the love that’s sincere. And those what has it don’t have to yell it at others ... da!

That’s what makes the Christian “right” so wrong! They use the name of god to force their narrow views on others. About as unchristian as a so-called christian can get!

Romney, if he is the Mormon he claims to be, knows this. Obviously he has no problem with compromising his standards, if it will get him votes. Well I don’t have to worry about decorum. I think the man is a liar and a phony and I mean to pass that on to anyone who will listen. Good grief! We have had that kind of leadership forced down our throats for the last seven years! What’s with this guy? Does he really believe imitating dubya will win hearts and minds or is he just stupid? Obviously he has little if any respect for his avoid religion, or his fellow Mormons! Certainly none for himself!

And I think my Mormon neighbors who wouldn’t say shit if they had a mouthful feel the same way.
I can tell by the way they fix their attention and nod their heads while they listen to my rant.

Well actually more like talking points, occasionally punctuated by expletives. [Incredibly tolerant of my foul mouth, those Mormon friends of mine] Who probably will vote non-republican. At least that’s the decision they made the last time around. You know what’s spooky? If Mitt had decided to become and run as a democrat, he would have had a real shot at making it.

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By DennisD, October 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is American politics; label groups of people, pander to their fears, rinse and repeat. In the end no one will get anything but the politicians and the corporations they represent. Divide and conquer at its best. It’s an ancient strategy and a winning one unless the majority of voters in this country finally wake up.

Fear any politician that tells you anything and everything you want to hear.

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RAE's avatar

By RAE, October 20, 2007 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment

If the American voters are suckered AGAIN into voting on PHONEY or relatively MINOR non-issues such as “gay marriage,” abortion rights, two-parent families, families under “attack,” then they will get the government they so richly deserve…

SMALL MINDED
MEAN SPIRITED
SHORT SIGHTED
IGNORANT
and
HIGHLY DANGEROUS TO THEIR OWN LIBERTY AND THE PEACE OF REST OF THE WORLD

The issues these right-wing conservatives fret about are so far down the list of IMPORTANT ones, it’s hard to believe anyone or any group can be so stupid!

How about considering candidates’ postions on…

NUCLEAR WORLD WAR
GLOBAL WARMING HAZARDS
INTERNATIONAL FAIR TRADE
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS & PERMANENT FAMINE RELIEF
AIDS & OTHER HORRENDOUS DISEASES
WORLD WIDE POVERTY
ABUSE OF CHILDREN
JUSTICE
and many, many more issues of REAL IMPORTANCE.

Please people… give your heads a shake and stop acting like a bunch of frightened, ignorant SHEEP. READ what other than the American Press feeds you…
ANALYZE the FACTS using your OWN COMMON SENSE…
GET PAST the hype and horseshit pandering of those egomaniacs struggling for a place at the “trough,” and find out what they REALLY stand for.

If you don’t you’re going to be REALLY, REALLY SORRY.

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By HiveRadical, October 20, 2007 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The traditional family is more than just ‘traditional’ it is the most optimal paradigm for general memetic transmissions that exists.

That is why it is such a central focus. Society really will collapse if undermining it is a sustained and effective effort of society.

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