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Ear to the Ground

Bush and Putin Still on the Outs

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Posted on Oct 12, 2007
Bush and Putin
ired.com

Going through the motions: The two presidents grimace for the cameras in 2005.

George W. Bush and Vladimir Putin used to have a loving relationship, but the two have grown cold and distant in recent years. Bush blames Russia’s deteriorating democratic process, while Putin is upset because the U.S. wants to build a missile shield on his doorstep. Bush’s friend Condi stopped by Moscow to try to smooth things over, but it looks like it didn’t go too well.

Just read this curt and hurt response from the Russian president: “One day you and I may decide that missile defense systems can be deployed on the Moon, but before we get there the possibility of reaching an agreement may be lost because you will have implemented your own plans.”


BBC:

After high-level talks in Moscow, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Russia saw the shield as a “potential threat” and wanted to “neutralise” it.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice denied any threat to Russia, saying she wanted both countries to work together.

Earlier, however, Russian President Vladimir Putin signalled he would not support American plans.

He urged Washington “not to force” a planned deployment - of a radar in the Czech Republic and interceptors in Poland - on Russia.

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By Douglas Chalmers, October 15, 2007 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment

#107254 by Peter RV on 10/15 at 11:18 am: “...Putin is probably the only man in the World who can stop American madness ......He has clearly cut American ego down to size that we are already a laughing stock in the World….”

You can add China’s leader, President Hu Jin Tao, as well, Peter. He has just proved that they not only have a far better grasp of managing their economy but that they can also admit their shortcomings and rectify them!

BEIJING, Oct. 15 (Xinhua)—The Chinese characters for democracy (Minzhu) turned up to be one of the most extensively used political concept in Hu’s keynote speech on Monday to the landmark national congress of the Communist Party of China (CPC), showing up at least 60 times. China will “expand people’s democracy and ensure that they are masters of the country,” Hu told more than 2,000 delegates to the congress, telecast live by national TV and radio networks. Hu also said that the CPC will “expand intra-Party democracy to develop people’s democracy” by increasing transparency in Party affairs and “opposing and preventing arbitrary decision-making by an individual or a minority of people….” http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-10/15/content_6882832.htm

Quote: “THE Chinese Communist Party must rid itself of corruption and bureaucracy if it is to survive and continue the economic reforms that had transformed its economy into the world’s fourth-biggest, the President, Hu Jintao, declared yesterday…... “While recognising our achievements, we must be well aware that they still fall short of the expectations of the people”.....

On foreign policy, Mr Hu sought to reassure the world that China did not “pose a military threat”, so there was no need to fear its economic and political rise, calling instead for global co-operation to “take good care of the Earth” by fighting global warming. He offered an olive branch to Taiwan and a “formal end to the state of hostility”, where former leaders threatened reunification by force…..” http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/party-too-corrupt-hu-tells-congress/2007/10/15/1192300685365.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

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By Peter RV, October 15, 2007 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Putin is probably the only man in the World who can stop American madness so it isn’t surprising the whole NeoCon propaganda apparatus is directed against him.(He is extremely popular not only in Russia but all over the world , which, translated in NeoCon language, means- undemocratic and authoritarian)
  He has clearly cut American ego down to size that we are already a laughing stock in the World. Putin’s kept Rice and Gates forty minutes waiting ,before receiving them. Some therapy for our overbearing hubris.
  All American should rejoice at Putin’s success, he is the only one who can make us elect somebody, in his image i.e.good for our Country. We, obviously, can’t do that by ourselves, with our manifestly corrupt political system.

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By rowdy, October 14, 2007 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country. And I appreciated so very much the frank dialogue. bush june 16 2001. he thought he saw another sock puppet.

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By Frank, October 14, 2007 at 2:53 pm Link to this comment

Putin is a 6th Dan black belt in Judo and a former KGB agent so I’m pretty sure he could kick Bush’s ass quite easily.  In fact, Putin probably knows a dozen ways to kill a man using only a paperclip, which he carries in his pocket at all times.

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By DennisD, October 14, 2007 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As the experienced KGB operative he was, Putin played Bu$h as the arrogant, incompetent fool he is.
The real question should be - How many Neocons does it take to f**k up the world?
One is obviously enough but we’ve got a government full of them.
Not a word from out fine “leaders” in the House or Senate as befits their character. I guess they’re waiting to hear the big bang from their bunkers before they make a statement on anything of value to the country that the lobbyists haven’t sanctioned beforehand.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, October 14, 2007 at 10:50 am Link to this comment

I still thing Putin can kick Bush’s ass in a fair fight.

I would be apprehensive about about Russia putting missles in Cuba again.

Why does our nation have to squander untold billions in a folly such as installation of dubious defensive missiles halfway around the world to defend soneone else against an inprobable threat.

We can’t get basic preventive healthcare for our poor kids here at home.

Shame on this administration and the congress who enables it.

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By czechmate, October 13, 2007 at 1:00 pm Link to this comment

Churchill and Stalin?
(Well,okay, Winny was not quite as naive, but cared as much for England as he ignored the rest of Central Europe and the Near East.)

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By writeon, October 13, 2007 at 8:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Nations that wish to have friendly relations with the United States have to learn some groundrules; the most important is that the national interests of the United States are paramount and ligitimate above all other considerations. That is foreign governments have to subordinate their own domestic interests and identify with the United States.

A rule of thumb here is that the more a foreign country identifies and subordinates itself to the United States, the better and friendlier relations they will have with the U.S.. Whether this is possible or ever disirable, given the obvious differences in history, culture and situation, between the U.S. and the rest of the world is rarely discussed.

What most Western countries want is a weak Russia. A Russia that is a source of cheap raw materials and cheap labour, controled by pro-western elite. The classic third-world model which has served us so well for decades, especially since the end of open colonialism and the collapse of the great european empires. However, is this model really applicable to Russia, given its culture and history? I doubt it. Trying to ‘impose’ such a system on Russia was a very high-risk strategy. It has only succeeded in giving ‘democracy’ a bad name, fueling nationalism, and made Russians feel humiliated and encircled.

Putin has seemingly succeeded in stopping the decline into third-world status for Russia, and for that he is popular domestically and reviled in the west for obvious reasons. Putin’s real ‘crime’ is that he isn’t Jeltsin, widely regarded as being a western stooge, readly to sell his country down the river in order to weaken the structure of the state so that he could take control and allow his circle to rob Russia blind, once again typical of the third-world model we so casually promote.

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By Verne Arnold, October 13, 2007 at 6:17 am Link to this comment

The things going on in the world are nothing more than realignment of power; America’s fading and Russia’s (Soviet) ascending, along with China and Asia.  On no level does this bode well for us, the citizens of the world.
Noam Chomsky spoke eloquently about his fears when the Soviet Union broke apart.  He warned of an unchallenged America running rough shod over the rest of the world; lo and behold his future view has proved 100% correct.  His prophecy (to his chagrin) has been fulfilled.
Mother Earth will survive us…no problem.  The question, as I see it is this: What course will we choose, to ensure our survival as free humans?

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By TAO Walker, October 12, 2007 at 10:01 pm Link to this comment

Dubya is probably just jealous that Vlad has already finessed the Russian constitution’s supposed-to’ve-been limits on continuing his own authoritarian reign.  The rogue regime in the U.S. federal city has yet to execute their final putsch strategy toward the same end.  Look for that to come soon….another shock-and-awe operation designed to cow theamericanpeople once-and-for-all into total, and permanent, submission.

Is there any good reason to expect the coup de grace to the already expiring allamerican republic, whatever its particulars, won’t be delivered pretty much unresisted?  The ruthless beating that has brought it to death’s door has so far gone on without any effective intervention whatsoever on the part of those whose own half-“lives” are being the most grievously affected….the self-same subject/citizenry who will be the opportunists’ prime targets one of these first days after tomorrow.

It appears to this old Indian that virtually no one among the shrinking “middle-class,” who would have to step far outside their cherished “comfort zone” to take-on the privateers’ in any truly effective way, will do so.  They’re much too addicted to their soporific “lifestyle” even to attempt it.  Robert Scheer, for one example, freely admitted as much to Gore Vidal in their conversations here awhile back.


Chances are the “falling-out” between the would-be dictators is more for-show than anything else anyway….at least at this juncture.  Juntas, after all, are all allies under-the-skin, their mutual enemies the citizenries they seek to subjugate.

HokaHey!

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By Louise, October 12, 2007 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment

They say one picture is worth a thousand words, but I confess I don’t understand the right words here.

Is Puten clearly demonstrating his dislike of photo ops, or his dislike of Bush?

Or is he displaying simple contempt for Bush, who thinks his sterling record of supporting his Constitutional government is anything but laughable?

No ... he’s definitely not laughing.

Probably annoyed as hell that the “New” Despot on the block is nervy enough [or dense enough] to “advise” him on how to run a democratic society.

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By thomas billis, October 12, 2007 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh goody Pres Moron is trying to bring back that old favorite of the right the cold war.Why on Gods green earth must we antagonize an"ally” by building facilities on their borders.I am sure if Russia built facilites in Cuba ostensibly to track Brazil I do not think we would view it as a peace gesture.To claim we are building these facilities to track Iran is beyond credibility.With any luck Condi with all her negotiating skills can get us into war with Russia.Has anyone told Condi Rice we are in a war in Iraq and that her top priority should be to talk to Iran and Syria and get our kids out of harms way.

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By QuyTran, October 12, 2007 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

Nobody trusts both of them when capitalist embraces communist !

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By JimM72, October 12, 2007 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The crux of the issue being that both of these men are power-hungry screwballs and more of the populace of both nations need to be aware of this and exercise the power of a democracy to purge them.
Hey, its’ nice to dream and truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

Jim

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By Douglas Chalmers, October 12, 2007 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

“Bush’s friend Condi stopped by Moscow to try to smooth things over, but it looks like it didn’t go too well….”

If America has been trying to start WW3, its certainly picked the right adversary - as well as doing everything to get their backs up…..!!!

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By KenDen, October 12, 2007 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

Bush is worried about Russia’s deteriorating democratic process?  What about our deteriorating democratic process?  Does he even give a damn about that? Does he even think about?  Since he came to power, his administration has shredded our Constitution.  How did we get into this mess?

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By John Hall, October 12, 2007 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So Bush is mad at Putin for a deteriorating democratic process in Russia, all the while ignoring that his actions here have contributed to a deteriorating democracy in the US. Hypocrite.

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By waxman, October 12, 2007 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

LETS SEE NOW, THE WONDERFUL RONALD REGAN SAID TEAR DOWN THAT WALL….DAFFY DUCK ER..SHRUB HAS A BETTER IDEA TO SOLVE TWO PROBLEMS..SHIP OUR ILLEGALS TO RUSSIA AND REBUILD THE WALL…NOW WHO THINKS BUSH IS STUPID ????HEY BILL O’REILLY, WHOS DRINKING KOOL AID NOW ?????

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